Re: Singlehander Schooner
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography"
<jon@...> wrote:
"interior" glue. Just look VERY closely at the edge of the sheet and
the waterproof glue will have a dark blue (sometimes appears black)
line between the plies. The non-waterproof glue will be most often
white or sometimes almost clear. The line between the plies will never
be dark on "interior" plywood. Look at the two edges side by side and
it is easy to verify.
Lewis
In Nicaragua where exterior plywood (when it is available, 500 sheet
minimum order) is called "Marine", and true marine plywood is just not
to be had. The outer plies on some sheets I have used (1/2") were
sanded so thin that glue from a hot glue gun would peel the outer ply
loose.
<jon@...> wrote:
>I have always found it easy to tell the waterproof glue from
> Hi Chris,
> The other stuff I've used is the 1/4" Luan available from CO Lumber
> on Stone south of the dog track. I'm not sure if this is made with
> waterproof glue or not, and the staff didn't know or care. However,
"interior" glue. Just look VERY closely at the edge of the sheet and
the waterproof glue will have a dark blue (sometimes appears black)
line between the plies. The non-waterproof glue will be most often
white or sometimes almost clear. The line between the plies will never
be dark on "interior" plywood. Look at the two edges side by side and
it is easy to verify.
Lewis
In Nicaragua where exterior plywood (when it is available, 500 sheet
minimum order) is called "Marine", and true marine plywood is just not
to be had. The outer plies on some sheets I have used (1/2") were
sanded so thin that glue from a hot glue gun would peel the outer ply
loose.
Wow! detailed local information. I wasn't expecting that! THANKS!
The BS6566 was shipped in for a different project that didn't happen.
I'll checkout the places you mention. I have been to CO lumber before
and it's very close to home.
I've been able to get Douglas fir and Spruce at Paxton Lumber in Denver.
They don't mention the Spruce on their web site, but every time I have
stopped by they have had some. The lengths are short, last time the
longest I could get was 7' long. But, it was enough for what I needed at
the time.
Again thanks
Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@...)
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=
The BS6566 was shipped in for a different project that didn't happen.
I'll checkout the places you mention. I have been to CO lumber before
and it's very close to home.
I've been able to get Douglas fir and Spruce at Paxton Lumber in Denver.
They don't mention the Spruce on their web site, but every time I have
stopped by they have had some. The lengths are short, last time the
longest I could get was 7' long. But, it was enough for what I needed at
the time.
Again thanks
Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@...)
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=
On Wed, 2006-02-08 at 14:26 +0000, adventures_in_astrophotography wrote:
> Hi Chris,
>
> > I have eight 4 x 8 sheets of BS6566 Okume plywood for a project.
>
> You're a lucky man to have that kind of plywood around here! I'm
> also in Colo Spgs (21+ years now), and it's very difficult indeed to
> find decent plywood for boatbuilding in this area. Before the big
> box home store era, I could get very nice AC fir at Hugh Woods, but
> the stuff they sell at Home Depot and Lowes is truly crap anymore,
> although my Light (Cat) Schooner is made from it and has held up fine
> over three seasons so far.
>
> Lately I've been using AC SuperPly that I found at Front Range Lumber
> up in Lakewood (Wadsworth and Jewell). It's got a nice Luan or
> similar face and back in 1/4" size, with something more like fir on
> the C-side in the 1/2" size. It's reasonably priced (about $18/sheet
> for 1/4") and they have lots of it every time I've called. I've
> built three boats with this so far and it appears to be very decent
> material. I only wish they'd carry 3/8".
>
> The other stuff I've used is the 1/4" Luan available from CO Lumber
> on Stone south of the dog track. I'm not sure if this is made with
> waterproof glue or not, and the staff didn't know or care. However,
> I've used this for two Michalak Toto double paddle canoes (one fully
> sheathed in Dynel), and I'm currently using it on his Robote design
> (to be fully sheathed in 6 oz glass). It's worked just fine so far,
> but the boats are not very old yet, either.
>
> CO Lumber also might have some 1/2" Marine AB Fir in stock, but it's
> mostly left over from when they tried to stock it regularly and it
> didn't sell, so they won't have much. They claim that they will
> order more for you, but when I tried that they didn't call back for
> months and I gave up on them. It's not a very well-run business.
> Recently they also had some very fine Honduras Mahogany marine ply in
> 5/8" and 3/4", but these were some kind of bargain deal the owner got
> because the sheets were roughed up somewhere. I got a good price
> ($45, I think) on the 3/4" sheet at the top of the pile because it
> was about 15% damaged, but the rest of it is very pricey and you
> probably can't use that thickness anyway.
>
> For solid softwood, you can get CVG Douglas fir, in the rough
> (they'll surface it for you if you don't have a planer) in 4/4 and
> 5/4 thicknesses in 6" and 8" widths, with lengths between about 8'
> and 16' at Austin Hardwoods in Denver (on Mississippi west of Santa
> Fe - nice neighborhood). You can also get S2S1E (rough on one face -
> it's high grade house trim) CVG western red cedar in 1x4, 1x6, 1x8,
> etc. in random lengths from Rocky Mountain Forest Products down in
> Fountain. Talk to Jim Costa. I haven't tried that stuff yet, but
> I'm planning to get some for the gunwales on Robote, since ultra
> light weight is a goal for that boat.
>
> > 1. Would it be Ok to use the BS6566 for the side planks if I
> sheathed the
> > outside in 6 oz. fiberglass cloth ?
>
> Absolutely. You won't find anything better around here without
> having it shipped in.
>
> > 2. What type of plywood rating should I be looking for locally to
> make up
> > the 3 sheets I don't have ?
>
> I'd use AC Superply. You could use the BS6566 for the sides and
> decking, and the AC with the good side inside the boat for the bottom
> and bulkheads. I'd sheath the whole hull up to the deck for a good
> tough boat. Nowadays I always put the good side in and sheath the C-
> side, since it's a lot easier to fill checks and other defects on the
> outside of the hull, and because the good side is much easier to
> paint.
>
> > If it's Ok to use the BS6566 for the side panels and bottom, with a
> > fiberglass sheath if needed, then I'll probably use the local
> plywood for
> > bulkheads and possibly the decking.
>
> It's always a good plan to sheath the hull bottom and sides, in my
> opinion. Lots of rocks and gravel on our lakeshores.
>
> If you'd like to see some of the plywood I mentioned above, and see
> it in real boats, you're welcome to come up to my shop in South Park
> some weekend and check out some of my projects. Dress very warmly.
> Contact me off-list atjon.kolb@...orjon@....
>
> Jon Kolb
>http://www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
> dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
> posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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Hi Chris,
also in Colo Spgs (21+ years now), and it's very difficult indeed to
find decent plywood for boatbuilding in this area. Before the big
box home store era, I could get very nice AC fir at Hugh Woods, but
the stuff they sell at Home Depot and Lowes is truly crap anymore,
although my Light (Cat) Schooner is made from it and has held up fine
over three seasons so far.
Lately I've been using AC SuperPly that I found at Front Range Lumber
up in Lakewood (Wadsworth and Jewell). It's got a nice Luan or
similar face and back in 1/4" size, with something more like fir on
the C-side in the 1/2" size. It's reasonably priced (about $18/sheet
for 1/4") and they have lots of it every time I've called. I've
built three boats with this so far and it appears to be very decent
material. I only wish they'd carry 3/8".
The other stuff I've used is the 1/4" Luan available from CO Lumber
on Stone south of the dog track. I'm not sure if this is made with
waterproof glue or not, and the staff didn't know or care. However,
I've used this for two Michalak Toto double paddle canoes (one fully
sheathed in Dynel), and I'm currently using it on his Robote design
(to be fully sheathed in 6 oz glass). It's worked just fine so far,
but the boats are not very old yet, either.
CO Lumber also might have some 1/2" Marine AB Fir in stock, but it's
mostly left over from when they tried to stock it regularly and it
didn't sell, so they won't have much. They claim that they will
order more for you, but when I tried that they didn't call back for
months and I gave up on them. It's not a very well-run business.
Recently they also had some very fine Honduras Mahogany marine ply in
5/8" and 3/4", but these were some kind of bargain deal the owner got
because the sheets were roughed up somewhere. I got a good price
($45, I think) on the 3/4" sheet at the top of the pile because it
was about 15% damaged, but the rest of it is very pricey and you
probably can't use that thickness anyway.
For solid softwood, you can get CVG Douglas fir, in the rough
(they'll surface it for you if you don't have a planer) in 4/4 and
5/4 thicknesses in 6" and 8" widths, with lengths between about 8'
and 16' at Austin Hardwoods in Denver (on Mississippi west of Santa
Fe - nice neighborhood). You can also get S2S1E (rough on one face -
it's high grade house trim) CVG western red cedar in 1x4, 1x6, 1x8,
etc. in random lengths from Rocky Mountain Forest Products down in
Fountain. Talk to Jim Costa. I haven't tried that stuff yet, but
I'm planning to get some for the gunwales on Robote, since ultra
light weight is a goal for that boat.
having it shipped in.
decking, and the AC with the good side inside the boat for the bottom
and bulkheads. I'd sheath the whole hull up to the deck for a good
tough boat. Nowadays I always put the good side in and sheath the C-
side, since it's a lot easier to fill checks and other defects on the
outside of the hull, and because the good side is much easier to
paint.
opinion. Lots of rocks and gravel on our lakeshores.
If you'd like to see some of the plywood I mentioned above, and see
it in real boats, you're welcome to come up to my shop in South Park
some weekend and check out some of my projects. Dress very warmly.
Contact me off-list atjon.kolb@...orjon@....
Jon Kolb
http://www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
> I have eight 4 x 8 sheets of BS6566 Okume plywood for a project.You're a lucky man to have that kind of plywood around here! I'm
also in Colo Spgs (21+ years now), and it's very difficult indeed to
find decent plywood for boatbuilding in this area. Before the big
box home store era, I could get very nice AC fir at Hugh Woods, but
the stuff they sell at Home Depot and Lowes is truly crap anymore,
although my Light (Cat) Schooner is made from it and has held up fine
over three seasons so far.
Lately I've been using AC SuperPly that I found at Front Range Lumber
up in Lakewood (Wadsworth and Jewell). It's got a nice Luan or
similar face and back in 1/4" size, with something more like fir on
the C-side in the 1/2" size. It's reasonably priced (about $18/sheet
for 1/4") and they have lots of it every time I've called. I've
built three boats with this so far and it appears to be very decent
material. I only wish they'd carry 3/8".
The other stuff I've used is the 1/4" Luan available from CO Lumber
on Stone south of the dog track. I'm not sure if this is made with
waterproof glue or not, and the staff didn't know or care. However,
I've used this for two Michalak Toto double paddle canoes (one fully
sheathed in Dynel), and I'm currently using it on his Robote design
(to be fully sheathed in 6 oz glass). It's worked just fine so far,
but the boats are not very old yet, either.
CO Lumber also might have some 1/2" Marine AB Fir in stock, but it's
mostly left over from when they tried to stock it regularly and it
didn't sell, so they won't have much. They claim that they will
order more for you, but when I tried that they didn't call back for
months and I gave up on them. It's not a very well-run business.
Recently they also had some very fine Honduras Mahogany marine ply in
5/8" and 3/4", but these were some kind of bargain deal the owner got
because the sheets were roughed up somewhere. I got a good price
($45, I think) on the 3/4" sheet at the top of the pile because it
was about 15% damaged, but the rest of it is very pricey and you
probably can't use that thickness anyway.
For solid softwood, you can get CVG Douglas fir, in the rough
(they'll surface it for you if you don't have a planer) in 4/4 and
5/4 thicknesses in 6" and 8" widths, with lengths between about 8'
and 16' at Austin Hardwoods in Denver (on Mississippi west of Santa
Fe - nice neighborhood). You can also get S2S1E (rough on one face -
it's high grade house trim) CVG western red cedar in 1x4, 1x6, 1x8,
etc. in random lengths from Rocky Mountain Forest Products down in
Fountain. Talk to Jim Costa. I haven't tried that stuff yet, but
I'm planning to get some for the gunwales on Robote, since ultra
light weight is a goal for that boat.
> 1. Would it be Ok to use the BS6566 for the side planks if Isheathed the
> outside in 6 oz. fiberglass cloth ?Absolutely. You won't find anything better around here without
having it shipped in.
> 2. What type of plywood rating should I be looking for locally tomake up
> the 3 sheets I don't have ?I'd use AC Superply. You could use the BS6566 for the sides and
decking, and the AC with the good side inside the boat for the bottom
and bulkheads. I'd sheath the whole hull up to the deck for a good
tough boat. Nowadays I always put the good side in and sheath the C-
side, since it's a lot easier to fill checks and other defects on the
outside of the hull, and because the good side is much easier to
paint.
> If it's Ok to use the BS6566 for the side panels and bottom, with aplywood for
> fiberglass sheath if needed, then I'll probably use the local
> bulkheads and possibly the decking.It's always a good plan to sheath the hull bottom and sides, in my
opinion. Lots of rocks and gravel on our lakeshores.
If you'd like to see some of the plywood I mentioned above, and see
it in real boats, you're welcome to come up to my shop in South Park
some weekend and check out some of my projects. Dress very warmly.
Contact me off-list atjon.kolb@...orjon@....
Jon Kolb
http://www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
I've built several boats with 6566. I've never seen anything but
ocassional small knots which disqualify it from 1088. I have encountered
some which didn't have enough plys to bend well but I was able to cold
mold with thin stock for the transom of my Lily. I'd try MDO for the
frames and deck. Clyde
chriskottaridis wrote:
ocassional small knots which disqualify it from 1088. I have encountered
some which didn't have enough plys to bend well but I was able to cold
mold with thin stock for the transom of my Lily. I'd try MDO for the
frames and deck. Clyde
chriskottaridis wrote:
>I have eight 4 x 8 sheets of BS6566 Okume plywood for a project. I'd like
>to build Bolger's Singlehander Schooner with them. I've been told that
>BS6566 is Ok for bulkheads and decking, but due to the outside layers being
>so thin is not typically appropriate for hulls, see "The New Kayak Shop" by
>Chris Kulczycki page 45.
>
>Dynamite Payson's site claims you'll need 11 sheets of plywood so I am short
>3 already. There is no Okume plywood in my area, Colorado Springs, and I
>don't want to pay the shipping fees for 3 sheets. I want to try and find
>reasonable plywood here locally and use the different types of plywood in
>the in the best places. Now the bottom is pretty flat so I assume it'd be
>OK to use the BS6566 sheets I have on the bottom. I was also planning on
>putting a layer of 6 oz cloth on the bottom for protection. The questions I
>have are:
>
>1. Would it be Ok to use the BS6566 for the side planks if I sheathed the
>outside in 6 oz. fiberglass cloth ?
>
>2. What type of plywood rating should I be looking for locally to make up
>the 3 sheets I don't have ?
>
>If it's Ok to use the BS6566 for the side panels and bottom, with a
>fiberglass sheath if needed, then I'll probably use the local plywood for
>bulkheads and possibly the decking.
>
>Any opinions or comments are appreciated.
>
>Thanks
>
> Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@...)
>
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Seems to me that if the plywood is made with waterproof glue (does BS6566 specify waterproof glue?) and you're going to cover it with a layer of epoxy and fiberglass anyways, then it won't really matter how thin the surface veneers are. As long as the epoxy and plywood glue don't fail then the surface veneers won't fail either.
James Greene
James Greene
On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 05:54:25 -0000, chriskottaridis wrote:
> I have eight 4 x 8 sheets of BS6566 Okume plywood for a project. I'd like
> to build Bolger's Singlehander Schooner with them. I've been told that
> BS6566 is Ok for bulkheads and decking, but due to the outside layers being
> so thin is not typically appropriate for hulls, see "The New Kayak Shop" by
> Chris Kulczycki page 45.
>
> Dynamite Payson's site claims you'll need 11 sheets of plywood so I
> am short
> 3 already. There is no Okume plywood in my area, Colorado Springs, and I
> don't want to pay the shipping fees for 3 sheets. I want to try and find
> reasonable plywood here locally and use the different types of plywood in
> the in the best places. Now the bottom is pretty flat so I assume it'd be
> OK to use the BS6566 sheets I have on the bottom. I was also planning on
> putting a layer of 6 oz cloth on the bottom for protection. The questions I
> have are:
>
> 1. Would it be Ok to use the BS6566 for the side planks if I sheathed the
> outside in 6 oz. fiberglass cloth ?
>
> 2. What type of plywood rating should I be looking for locally to make up
> the 3 sheets I don't have ?
>
> If it's Ok to use the BS6566 for the side panels and bottom, with a
> fiberglass sheath if needed, then I'll probably use the local plywood for
> bulkheads and possibly the decking.
>
> Any opinions or comments are appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
> Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@...)
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
> dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
I have eight 4 x 8 sheets of BS6566 Okume plywood for a project. I'd like
to build Bolger's Singlehander Schooner with them. I've been told that
BS6566 is Ok for bulkheads and decking, but due to the outside layers being
so thin is not typically appropriate for hulls, see "The New Kayak Shop" by
Chris Kulczycki page 45.
Dynamite Payson's site claims you'll need 11 sheets of plywood so I am short
3 already. There is no Okume plywood in my area, Colorado Springs, and I
don't want to pay the shipping fees for 3 sheets. I want to try and find
reasonable plywood here locally and use the different types of plywood in
the in the best places. Now the bottom is pretty flat so I assume it'd be
OK to use the BS6566 sheets I have on the bottom. I was also planning on
putting a layer of 6 oz cloth on the bottom for protection. The questions I
have are:
1. Would it be Ok to use the BS6566 for the side planks if I sheathed the
outside in 6 oz. fiberglass cloth ?
2. What type of plywood rating should I be looking for locally to make up
the 3 sheets I don't have ?
If it's Ok to use the BS6566 for the side panels and bottom, with a
fiberglass sheath if needed, then I'll probably use the local plywood for
bulkheads and possibly the decking.
Any opinions or comments are appreciated.
Thanks
Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@...)
to build Bolger's Singlehander Schooner with them. I've been told that
BS6566 is Ok for bulkheads and decking, but due to the outside layers being
so thin is not typically appropriate for hulls, see "The New Kayak Shop" by
Chris Kulczycki page 45.
Dynamite Payson's site claims you'll need 11 sheets of plywood so I am short
3 already. There is no Okume plywood in my area, Colorado Springs, and I
don't want to pay the shipping fees for 3 sheets. I want to try and find
reasonable plywood here locally and use the different types of plywood in
the in the best places. Now the bottom is pretty flat so I assume it'd be
OK to use the BS6566 sheets I have on the bottom. I was also planning on
putting a layer of 6 oz cloth on the bottom for protection. The questions I
have are:
1. Would it be Ok to use the BS6566 for the side planks if I sheathed the
outside in 6 oz. fiberglass cloth ?
2. What type of plywood rating should I be looking for locally to make up
the 3 sheets I don't have ?
If it's Ok to use the BS6566 for the side panels and bottom, with a
fiberglass sheath if needed, then I'll probably use the local plywood for
bulkheads and possibly the decking.
Any opinions or comments are appreciated.
Thanks
Chris Kottaridis (chriskot@...)
Anyone out there with any experience of the singlehader schooner?
Really single handed? How does it compare to the light schooner, etc.
Really single handed? How does it compare to the light schooner, etc.