Re: [bolger] Re: plywood mast

That is true! 
 
Now, if I could just saw straight.....:>)
 
Thanks Rich
 
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Thursday, June 14, 2001 2:34 PM
Subject:[bolger] Re: plywood mast

Or, you could scarph. Not really that hard. You could cheat and do a
skillsaw scarph like I did, about 1 in 8 for the mast. Isn't gap
filling epoxy great? Seems to work ok, no problems in the couple of
years I've used it. Or, use your power planer. You only have to get
close, epoxy and wood flour will fill the joint if you don't get a
prefectly level and smooth scarph cut.

--- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <jeff@g...> wrote:
> I could glass over the outside joints easy enough.  Belt sand it
down a little so it would show, then glass it with some 3" tape I
have.  Wonderful idea!  Thanks
>
> I don't mind dealing with epoxy and glass, it's starting to be
second nature, if that is possible!  :>)
>
> Because I tapered the first mast too much (over zealous with the
power planner) so I wrapped it in glass to help it along.  It worked,
wow could it bend and not snap!  Darn thing would tend to keep the
bend in it for awhile until I would get it loaded to the opposite
side.  Really strange, but it didn't break! 
>
> Jeff
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Lincoln Ross
>   To: bolger@y...
>   Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 2:06 PM
>   Subject: [bolger] Re: plywood mast
>
>
>   THe problem is that a splice on the outside of a bend is going to
take
>   a lot more stress than the inner two layers, so staggering the
splices
>   won't help a whole lot. Maybe you could glass over the 45 degree
>   areas? Say several layers, not all ending in the same place?
>
>   What about a hollow plywood mast with uni glass put on it?
>
>   Or do you play with glass and epoxy that much?
>
>   --- In bolger@y..., jeff@g... wrote:
>   > Rich, good point on the plywood so scratch that idea, and I
hadn't
>   > thought of the splicing of the current mast, I'll have to a
good
>   > look, thanks.
>   >
>   > Otherwise it's to the lumber yard for a bunch of 1x4s.  This
time
>   > I'll laminate 4 layers of 1x4s.  I think I can stagger the
joints
>   > made of 45 degree cuts enough that I won't have to scarf them. 
Done
>   > right I think I can keep 2 feet distance between all joints
with
>   none
>   > in line with each other. 
>   >
>   > The mast is much bigger than the sail needs.  I doesn't flex at
all.
>
>   > The first one I built did as I tappered it to much but the
second
>   one
>   > I had at Lake Texhoma didn't flex at all so I don't think the
>   splices
>   > will create a problem.
>   >
>   > Jeff
>   > --- In bolger@y..., richard@s... wrote:
>   > > 'Tis possible, but I would no recommend it.
>   > >
>   > > Plywood great panel strength comes from the crosswise layers.
>   These
>   > > layers eliminate the along the grain weakness of wood.
>   > > Ala "splitting". These same layers would work against you in
a
>   mast
>   > > application. One two sides you would have only about 1/8" of
wood
>   > > taking all the tension.
>   > > On the other two sides, you would have only half the layers
>   > oriented
>   > > in the right direction.
>   > >
>   > > Simple test, take a short piece of 3/4" ply about 3" wide and
>   break
>   > > it both sideways and thickways. Do the same with a solid
board.
>   > >
>   > >
>   > > How bad is yours bent? To bad to be functional? Could you
wack off
>   > > the down side with a bandsaw and attach it to the up side?
>   > >
>   > > --- In bolger@y..., jeff@g... wrote:
>   > > > I'm thinking of rebuilding the mast for my boat since I'm
>   getting
>   > > the
>   > > > bug to be on the water this summer.  It's a 18' X 3" mast
and
>   > last
>   > > > time I used two 18' 2x4 pieces laminated together then cut
down
>   > > with
>   > > > a power planer.  They still warped out of place in this dry
air.
>   > > >
>   > > > Has anyone made a mast of plywood layers?  1/2" ply
laminated
>   > with
>   > > > epoxy.  It would be 6 layers deep by 3" strips, say
staggered on
>   > > the
>   > > > splices by 2 foot.
>   > > >
>   > > > Would this work?  It would only take one sheet of 1/2" to
do it.
>   > > >
>   > > > I have a spare sheet of 1/2" which made me ponder this.
>   > > >
>   > > > Jeff
>
>
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>   Bolger rules!!!
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Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
Or, you could scarph. Not really that hard. You could cheat and do a
skillsaw scarph like I did, about 1 in 8 for the mast. Isn't gap
filling epoxy great? Seems to work ok, no problems in the couple of
years I've used it. Or, use your power planer. You only have to get
close, epoxy and wood flour will fill the joint if you don't get a
prefectly level and smooth scarph cut.

--- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <jeff@g...> wrote:
> I could glass over the outside joints easy enough. Belt sand it
down a little so it would show, then glass it with some 3" tape I
have. Wonderful idea! Thanks
>
> I don't mind dealing with epoxy and glass, it's starting to be
second nature, if that is possible! :>)
>
> Because I tapered the first mast too much (over zealous with the
power planner) so I wrapped it in glass to help it along. It worked,
wow could it bend and not snap! Darn thing would tend to keep the
bend in it for awhile until I would get it loaded to the opposite
side. Really strange, but it didn't break!
>
> Jeff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lincoln Ross
> To: bolger@y...
> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 2:06 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: plywood mast
>
>
> THe problem is that a splice on the outside of a bend is going to
take
> a lot more stress than the inner two layers, so staggering the
splices
> won't help a whole lot. Maybe you could glass over the 45 degree
> areas? Say several layers, not all ending in the same place?
>
> What about a hollow plywood mast with uni glass put on it?
>
> Or do you play with glass and epoxy that much?
>
> --- In bolger@y..., jeff@g... wrote:
> > Rich, good point on the plywood so scratch that idea, and I
hadn't
> > thought of the splicing of the current mast, I'll have to a
good
> > look, thanks.
> >
> > Otherwise it's to the lumber yard for a bunch of 1x4s. This
time
> > I'll laminate 4 layers of 1x4s. I think I can stagger the
joints
> > made of 45 degree cuts enough that I won't have to scarf them.
Done
> > right I think I can keep 2 feet distance between all joints
with
> none
> > in line with each other.
> >
> > The mast is much bigger than the sail needs. I doesn't flex at
all.
>
> > The first one I built did as I tappered it to much but the
second
> one
> > I had at Lake Texhoma didn't flex at all so I don't think the
> splices
> > will create a problem.
> >
> > Jeff
> > --- In bolger@y..., richard@s... wrote:
> > > 'Tis possible, but I would no recommend it.
> > >
> > > Plywood great panel strength comes from the crosswise layers.
> These
> > > layers eliminate the along the grain weakness of wood.
> > > Ala "splitting". These same layers would work against you in
a
> mast
> > > application. One two sides you would have only about 1/8" of
wood
> > > taking all the tension.
> > > On the other two sides, you would have only half the layers
> > oriented
> > > in the right direction.
> > >
> > > Simple test, take a short piece of 3/4" ply about 3" wide and
> break
> > > it both sideways and thickways. Do the same with a solid
board.
> > >
> > >
> > > How bad is yours bent? To bad to be functional? Could you
wack off
> > > the down side with a bandsaw and attach it to the up side?
> > >
> > > --- In bolger@y..., jeff@g... wrote:
> > > > I'm thinking of rebuilding the mast for my boat since I'm
> getting
> > > the
> > > > bug to be on the water this summer. It's a 18' X 3" mast
and
> > last
> > > > time I used two 18' 2x4 pieces laminated together then cut
down
> > > with
> > > > a power planer. They still warped out of place in this dry
air.
> > > >
> > > > Has anyone made a mast of plywood layers? 1/2" ply
laminated
> > with
> > > > epoxy. It would be 6 layers deep by 3" strips, say
staggered on
> > > the
> > > > splices by 2 foot.
> > > >
> > > > Would this work? It would only take one sheet of 1/2" to
do it.
> > > >
> > > > I have a spare sheet of 1/2" which made me ponder this.
> > > >
> > > > Jeff
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> Click for Details
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
I could glass over the outside joints easy enough.  Belt sand it down a little so it would show, then glass it with some 3" tape I have.  Wonderful idea!  Thanks
 
I don't mind dealing with epoxy and glass, it's starting to be second nature, if that is possible!  :>)
 
Because I tapered the first mast too much (over zealous with the power planner) so I wrapped it in glass to help it along.  It worked, wow could it bend and not snap!  Darn thing would tend to keep the bend in it for awhile until I would get it loaded to the opposite side.  Really strange, but it didn't break! 
 
Jeff
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Thursday, June 14, 2001 2:06 PM
Subject:[bolger] Re: plywood mast

THe problem is that a splice on the outside of a bend is going to take
a lot more stress than the inner two layers, so staggering the splices
won't help a whole lot. Maybe you could glass over the 45 degree
areas? Say several layers, not all ending in the same place?

What about a hollow plywood mast with uni glass put on it?

Or do you play with glass and epoxy that much?

--- In bolger@y..., jeff@g... wrote:
> Rich, good point on the plywood so scratch that idea, and I hadn't
> thought of the splicing of the current mast, I'll have to a good
> look, thanks.
>
> Otherwise it's to the lumber yard for a bunch of 1x4s.  This time
> I'll laminate 4 layers of 1x4s.  I think I can stagger the joints
> made of 45 degree cuts enough that I won't have to scarf them.  Done
> right I think I can keep 2 feet distance between all joints with
none
> in line with each other. 
>
> The mast is much bigger than the sail needs.  I doesn't flex at all.

> The first one I built did as I tappered it to much but the second
one
> I had at Lake Texhoma didn't flex at all so I don't think the
splices
> will create a problem.
>
> Jeff
> --- In bolger@y..., richard@s... wrote:
> > 'Tis possible, but I would no recommend it.
> >
> > Plywood great panel strength comes from the crosswise layers.
These
> > layers eliminate the along the grain weakness of wood.
> > Ala "splitting". These same layers would work against you in a
mast
> > application. One two sides you would have only about 1/8" of wood
> > taking all the tension.
> > On the other two sides, you would have only half the layers
> oriented
> > in the right direction.
> >
> > Simple test, take a short piece of 3/4" ply about 3" wide and
break
> > it both sideways and thickways. Do the same with a solid board.
> >
> >
> > How bad is yours bent? To bad to be functional? Could you wack off
> > the down side with a bandsaw and attach it to the up side?
> >
> > --- In bolger@y..., jeff@g... wrote:
> > > I'm thinking of rebuilding the mast for my boat since I'm
getting
> > the
> > > bug to be on the water this summer.  It's a 18' X 3" mast and
> last
> > > time I used two 18' 2x4 pieces laminated together then cut down
> > with
> > > a power planer.  They still warped out of place in this dry air.
> > >
> > > Has anyone made a mast of plywood layers?  1/2" ply laminated
> with
> > > epoxy.  It would be 6 layers deep by 3" strips, say staggered on
> > the
> > > splices by 2 foot.
> > >
> > > Would this work?  It would only take one sheet of 1/2" to do it.
> > >
> > > I have a spare sheet of 1/2" which made me ponder this.
> > >
> > > Jeff



Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [bolger] plywood mast
I've tried hollow spars before and find them harder to build versus gluing up dimension lumber and taking the ol' power planner to it and then finishing with the belt sander.  I've actually got to where I can cut out a mast in less than 30 minutes.  At least of the size I've made in the past.  Of course they aren't "perfect" and "gold plated" to look at but they are round.
 
Thanks for the offer.  The lighter weight would be nice.....so why not if they aren't too much work for you, I'd like to see the details.
 
 
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Thursday, June 14, 2001 1:10 PM
Subject:RE: [bolger] plywood mast

Laminated plywood would make for an extremely heavy mast.

Have you considered making a hollow mast?  It would probably be stronger and it definately would be a lot lighter.   You can make a hollow box mast using lumber for the fore and aft faces, and use plywood for the mast sides.  Some Glen-L sailboat plans give construction details of such a mast - I can provide more information (dimensions, etc.) if you need them.

Jim Michalak's site has some information about making hollow spars.

Best,

John Sumrok





-----Original Message-----
From: richard@... [mailto:richard@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 1:54 PM
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] plywood mast


'Tis possible, but I would no recommend it.

Plywood great panel strength comes from the crosswise layers. These
layers eliminate the along the grain weakness of wood.
Ala "splitting". These same layers would work against you in a mast
application. One two sides you would have only about 1/8" of wood
taking all the tension.
On the other two sides, you would have only half the layers oriented
in the right direction.

Simple test, take a short piece of 3/4" ply about 3" wide and break
it both sideways and thickways. Do the same with a solid board.


How bad is yours bent? To bad to be functional? Could you wack off
the down side with a bandsaw and attach it to the up side?

--- In bolger@y..., jeff@g... wrote:
> I'm thinking of rebuilding the mast for my boat since I'm getting
the
> bug to be on the water this summer.  It's a 18' X 3" mast and last
> time I used two 18' 2x4 pieces laminated together then cut down
with
> a power planer.  They still warped out of place in this dry air.
>
> Has anyone made a mast of plywood layers?  1/2" ply laminated with
> epoxy.  It would be 6 layers deep by 3" strips, say staggered on
the
> splices by 2 foot.
>
> Would this work?  It would only take one sheet of 1/2" to do it.
>
> I have a spare sheet of 1/2" which made me ponder this.
>
> Jeff


Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [bolger] plywood mast

Laminated plywood would make for an extremely heavy mast.

Have you considered making a hollow mast?  It would probably be stronger and it definately would be a lot lighter.   You can make a hollow box mast using lumber for the fore and aft faces, and use plywood for the mast sides.  Some Glen-L sailboat plans give construction details of such a mast - I can provide more information (dimensions, etc.) if you need them.

Jim Michalak's site has some information about making hollow spars.

Best,

John Sumrok





-----Original Message-----
From: richard@... [mailto:richard@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 1:54 PM
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] plywood mast


'Tis possible, but I would no recommend it.

Plywood great panel strength comes from the crosswise layers. These
layers eliminate the along the grain weakness of wood.
Ala "splitting". These same layers would work against you in a mast
application. One two sides you would have only about 1/8" of wood
taking all the tension.
On the other two sides, you would have only half the layers oriented
in the right direction.

Simple test, take a short piece of 3/4" ply about 3" wide and break
it both sideways and thickways. Do the same with a solid board.


How bad is yours bent? To bad to be functional? Could you wack off
the down side with a bandsaw and attach it to the up side?

--- In bolger@y..., jeff@g... wrote:
> I'm thinking of rebuilding the mast for my boat since I'm getting
the
> bug to be on the water this summer.  It's a 18' X 3" mast and last
> time I used two 18' 2x4 pieces laminated together then cut down
with
> a power planer.  They still warped out of place in this dry air.
>
> Has anyone made a mast of plywood layers?  1/2" ply laminated with
> epoxy.  It would be 6 layers deep by 3" strips, say staggered on
the
> splices by 2 foot.
>
> Would this work?  It would only take one sheet of 1/2" to do it.
>
> I have a spare sheet of 1/2" which made me ponder this.
>
> Jeff


Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

I've a drawing (with proper scantlings indications) illustrating a
hollow mast with rectangular section: front and aft sides made with
solid lumber staves, lateral sides made with plywood. It's on a very
reputable and famous (in Europe) book on sailing. It should be very
light.
Best, Pippo


--- In bolger@y..., "Paul W. Esterle" <pesterle@p...> wrote:
> The idea I saw was to form an X or T section and then wrap it with
> fiberglass cloth - 6" tape wound spirally...
>
> Paul W. Esterle
> Capt'n Pauley Video Productions
> 423.989.3159
> S/V Bryn Awel, Columbia 10.7
> Bristol, Tenn. USA
>http://www.captnpauley.bigstep.com
>http://pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <pan@b...>
> To: <bolger@y...>
> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 11:15 AM
> Subject: [bolger] plywood mast
>
>
> > Does anyone remember an article about making an Xsection out of
> > plywood and then wrapping it with veneer to make a hollow mast? I
> > read it somewhere and now I can't find it. :~( Know of any other
> > cheap or plywood mast ideas?
> > Thanks, Les
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > - no flogging dead horses
> > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> >
> >
The idea I saw was to form an X or T section and then wrap it with
fiberglass cloth - 6" tape wound spirally...

Paul W. Esterle
Capt'n Pauley Video Productions
423.989.3159
S/V Bryn Awel, Columbia 10.7
Bristol, Tenn. USA
http://www.captnpauley.bigstep.com
http://pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/

----- Original Message -----
From: <pan@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 11:15 AM
Subject: [bolger] plywood mast


> Does anyone remember an article about making an Xsection out of
> plywood and then wrapping it with veneer to make a hollow mast? I
> read it somewhere and now I can't find it. :~( Know of any other
> cheap or plywood mast ideas?
> Thanks, Les
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>
>
In a message dated 02/17/2001 11:<BR17:<BR19 AM
Eastern Standard,pan@...writes:> Does anyone remember an
article about making an Xsection out of
> plywood and then wrapping it with veneer to make a hollow mast? I
> read it somewhere and now I can't find it. :~( Know of any other
> cheap or plywood mast ideas?

Sounds like making two masts to get one inferior one :-) It doesn't seem that
plywood has the sort of properties needed for a mast. There are other ways
that are *so* much better and still cheap and easy.

YMMV/Carron
Does anyone remember an article about making an Xsection out of
plywood and then wrapping it with veneer to make a hollow mast? I
read it somewhere and now I can't find it. :~( Know of any other
cheap or plywood mast ideas?
Thanks, Les