Re: fiberglass/plywood
I have never seen a metal with strength anywhere near that of glass
fibers. They are in the hundreds of thousands of psi range. (That's
for individual fibers, not for the layup.) I understand that the
failure strain (i.e. how much it deforms before it breaks) of
fiberglass is close to that of wood, so that most of this strength
would be used. Also, you can get fiberglass with a finish that makes
epoxy stick well. I think that these properties would be hard to match
with the screening. By using screening, you give up one of the great
conveniences of metal: it's fairly isotropic (i.e. same in all
directions). I suggest that if you really want to go this route, you
make up some panels of each type of construction and break them under
controlled conditions.
fibers. They are in the hundreds of thousands of psi range. (That's
for individual fibers, not for the layup.) I understand that the
failure strain (i.e. how much it deforms before it breaks) of
fiberglass is close to that of wood, so that most of this strength
would be used. Also, you can get fiberglass with a finish that makes
epoxy stick well. I think that these properties would be hard to match
with the screening. By using screening, you give up one of the great
conveniences of metal: it's fairly isotropic (i.e. same in all
directions). I suggest that if you really want to go this route, you
make up some panels of each type of construction and break them under
controlled conditions.
--- In bolger@y..., eider@m... wrote:
> Here's a thought for all box boat builders. I believe a very strong
> and lightweight hull can be made by using monel burglar screening in
> place of glass fiber. It has great impact and cutting resistance as
> well as tensil strength.Plywood need not be as thick.Use with epoxy
> only. What say you?
Thanks for thwe many good comments.-----Vacuum bag would certainly
make it lay flat. Also,it should be rolled out and left for a few
days to flaten.Monel staples after pulling tight would help. It could
be used between two layers of plywood as a lamination.Chines would
have to be strips, bent in a sheetmetal break, and stapled in place.--
---The use of epoxy in place of polyester,because it very flexible,
will take care of expansion and contraction. It is common to protect
steel tanks and pipe in this way, with out problems.Epoxy is also
much better moisture barrier and adhesive.--------I'll try to get
prices.--------Total weight may not increase because the plywood will
be not as thick as normal.------A great place to find products and
suppiers is at Thomas Regional "www.industrial-suppliers-online.com"
make it lay flat. Also,it should be rolled out and left for a few
days to flaten.Monel staples after pulling tight would help. It could
be used between two layers of plywood as a lamination.Chines would
have to be strips, bent in a sheetmetal break, and stapled in place.--
---The use of epoxy in place of polyester,because it very flexible,
will take care of expansion and contraction. It is common to protect
steel tanks and pipe in this way, with out problems.Epoxy is also
much better moisture barrier and adhesive.--------I'll try to get
prices.--------Total weight may not increase because the plywood will
be not as thick as normal.------A great place to find products and
suppiers is at Thomas Regional "www.industrial-suppliers-online.com"
How much does it cost? Clyde
eider@...wrote:
eider@...wrote:
> Here's a thought for all box boat builders. I believe a very strong
> and lightweight hull can be made by using monel burglar screening in
> place of glass fiber. It has great impact and cutting resistance as
> well as tensil strength.Plywood need not be as thick.Use with epoxy
> only. What say you?
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--- In bolger@y..., eider@m... wrote:
seen the screening you refer to but would consider things like
the modulous of elasticity amongst the three subtrates intended to
work as a uniform whole(epoxy,plywood,and monel screening) and also
the expansion/contraction rates of these three.
Not having any hard numbers in front of me,this is just a gut feeling
but I wonder how well a heavily stressed hull would hold up when the
strenght of the steel would clearly be present(and more then capable
of take the stresses) yet the epoxy may release its' hold on the wood
or the wood would rupture.I say this only based on the idea(which may
be wrong)that the wood and epoxy would be inclined to stretch a bit to
release/frustrate some of the energy of the applied stress while the
monel would remain rigid thus creating an imbalance within the whole
structure.
As for the expansion/contraction thought;steel is a wonderful
conductor of heat and expands or contracts accordingly.With this
expansion/contraction occurring within a coating of epoxy resin my
thinking would be that eventually,moisture(water)will fill these
little voids and the monel would no longer be"gripped" by the resin.If
the climate is cool enough to permit freezing,then the freezing of
this trapped water(expansion) will only serve to increase the relative
size of the void thereby allowing for the storage of more moisture
during the warmer periods.The next freeze up would then have even
greater expansion and more de-lamination of the entire epoxy
resin/monel bond etc etc......
And then there is the question of weight.How much does this monel
screening weigh?I would guess alot more then fiberglass cloth.
So there you have it,eider(sorry).Hopefully someone far more into this
sort of stuff will speak up and either declare me full of caca or
favorably enlighten us.Who knows,you may be onto something good!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,enjoying a delightfully dark and delicious second glass
of port after a warm meal,on the frozen shores of the St.Lawrence...
> Here's a thought for all box boat builders. I believe a very strongO.K.,I'll give it a bite and toss in my .02cents CAN worth.I've never
> and lightweight hull can be made by using monel burglar screening in
> place of glass fiber. It has great impact and cutting resistance as
> well as tensil strength.Plywood need not be as thick.Use with epoxy
> only. What say you?
seen the screening you refer to but would consider things like
the modulous of elasticity amongst the three subtrates intended to
work as a uniform whole(epoxy,plywood,and monel screening) and also
the expansion/contraction rates of these three.
Not having any hard numbers in front of me,this is just a gut feeling
but I wonder how well a heavily stressed hull would hold up when the
strenght of the steel would clearly be present(and more then capable
of take the stresses) yet the epoxy may release its' hold on the wood
or the wood would rupture.I say this only based on the idea(which may
be wrong)that the wood and epoxy would be inclined to stretch a bit to
release/frustrate some of the energy of the applied stress while the
monel would remain rigid thus creating an imbalance within the whole
structure.
As for the expansion/contraction thought;steel is a wonderful
conductor of heat and expands or contracts accordingly.With this
expansion/contraction occurring within a coating of epoxy resin my
thinking would be that eventually,moisture(water)will fill these
little voids and the monel would no longer be"gripped" by the resin.If
the climate is cool enough to permit freezing,then the freezing of
this trapped water(expansion) will only serve to increase the relative
size of the void thereby allowing for the storage of more moisture
during the warmer periods.The next freeze up would then have even
greater expansion and more de-lamination of the entire epoxy
resin/monel bond etc etc......
And then there is the question of weight.How much does this monel
screening weigh?I would guess alot more then fiberglass cloth.
So there you have it,eider(sorry).Hopefully someone far more into this
sort of stuff will speak up and either declare me full of caca or
favorably enlighten us.Who knows,you may be onto something good!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,enjoying a delightfully dark and delicious second glass
of port after a warm meal,on the frozen shores of the St.Lawrence...
Hi Jim,
I'm no chemist, but was a machinist for many years. Monel is a high
tensil, nickel alloy steel, that is very tough on tools. It doesn't
rust, and it sure would be stronger than anything I know of for a taping
application. The only question that I would have is the expense. As they
say back on the farm, "it aint 'gonna be cheap", and don't try to cut it
with your wife's favorite sewing scissors.
All the best, Stan, Snow Goose
I'm no chemist, but was a machinist for many years. Monel is a high
tensil, nickel alloy steel, that is very tough on tools. It doesn't
rust, and it sure would be stronger than anything I know of for a taping
application. The only question that I would have is the expense. As they
say back on the farm, "it aint 'gonna be cheap", and don't try to cut it
with your wife's favorite sewing scissors.
All the best, Stan, Snow Goose
Monel is metal, a trade name for a corrosion -resistant nickel-copper
alloy. Not a bad idea to try, though I doubt you can get it to lie
flat enough unless you bag it.
Gregg Carlson
alloy. Not a bad idea to try, though I doubt you can get it to lie
flat enough unless you bag it.
Gregg Carlson
--- In bolger@y..., "Jim Chamberlin RCSIS" <jchamberlin@r...> wrote:
> I know nothing about monel....any chemists or ?? out there that can
> comment....in words that I will understand. I'm always up for
easier,
> better, cheaper and faster.
>
> > Here's a thought for all box boat builders. I believe a very
strong
> > and lightweight hull can be made by using monel burglar screening
in
> > place of glass fiber. It has great impact and cutting resistance
as
> > well as tensil strength.Plywood need not be as thick.Use with
epoxy
> > only. What say you?
I know nothing about monel....any chemists or ?? out there that can
comment....in words that I will understand. I'm always up for easier,
better, cheaper and faster.
Jim C.
comment....in words that I will understand. I'm always up for easier,
better, cheaper and faster.
Jim C.
> -----Original Message-----
> From:eider@...[mailto:eider@...]
> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 7:42 AM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] fiberglass/plywood
>
>
> Here's a thought for all box boat builders. I believe a very strong
> and lightweight hull can be made by using monel burglar screening in
> place of glass fiber. It has great impact and cutting resistance as
> well as tensil strength.Plywood need not be as thick.Use with epoxy
> only. What say you?
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Here's a thought for all box boat builders. I believe a very strong
and lightweight hull can be made by using monel burglar screening in
place of glass fiber. It has great impact and cutting resistance as
well as tensil strength.Plywood need not be as thick.Use with epoxy
only. What say you?
and lightweight hull can be made by using monel burglar screening in
place of glass fiber. It has great impact and cutting resistance as
well as tensil strength.Plywood need not be as thick.Use with epoxy
only. What say you?