Re: stitching and glueing a Light Dory?
HI Bill
I successfully s&g'd a GLD.
Not difficult, Marvellous boat. Pretty and seaworthy.
Happy to tell more, if you have questions.
Wayne Poulsen, Fremantle West Australia
I successfully s&g'd a GLD.
Not difficult, Marvellous boat. Pretty and seaworthy.
Happy to tell more, if you have questions.
Wayne Poulsen, Fremantle West Australia
--- In bolger@y..., pateson@c... wrote:
> I would assume you have Payson's "How to build the Gloucester Light
> Dory"
>
> If not, buy it. Read it. Read it again so you understand what you
>
> read the first time. Then build a paper model.
>
> Stitch and glue have their place, but not here.
>
> >
> --- In bolger@y..., "Bill Dodson" <lurkerdog@y...> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I've been through the archives and seen mention of using stitch
and
> > glue to build a Gloucester Light Dory. I'm about to start
> > construction of my own Light Dory (my first boatbuilding
project),
> > and would appreciate any comments, warnings, advice, whatever
about
> > its suitability for stitch and glue. > > Bill Dodson
OK, this is almost on-topic. I have been trowling epoxy into the
holes in my Jeep (boat carrier)where the Bondo fell out. I was afraid
of getting a littering ticket.
Claude
Watching the snow fall here in Northern Michigan. Only two monthes of
winter left.
- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
holes in my Jeep (boat carrier)where the Bondo fell out. I was afraid
of getting a littering ticket.
Claude
Watching the snow fall here in Northern Michigan. Only two monthes of
winter left.
- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
> Yes, I have built a boat using bondo.called
> the Cape Cod Frosty was originally built to specifications that
> for bond fillet, luan ply, and hardware store items. To be honest,the
> if the class had stuck with this concept it would be a lot stronger
> today.
>
> the story goes like this. In one of the rare cases in which I
> actually had a 15 boat length lead in a race due to an amazing wind
> shift. I was bearing down on the finish line on the last leg of the
> race. I noticed that i was taking on a fair amount of water from
> port chine area. This chine crack spread very fast and I ultimatelyrefer
> swamped no less than three boat lengths from the finish line as I
> could not bail fast enough to preserve the lead. Frosty sailors
> to this phenomenon as Bondo blowout. It works real well until itgets
> wet, then the talc/polyester mix becomes quite soggy and fails.Anderson,
> Current Frostys are built using traditional tack and tape with epoxy
> fillets over glass.
> I failed to mention that the tape we set into the bondo was
> fiberglass window screening! It worked pretty well until the bondo
> failed. You could build a complete frosty for around $60 minus that
> sail. The amazing thing was the quality of sailor who showed up to
> race these things. Some went on to fame and fortune. Karl
> and Tyler Moore became J24 Champions and Karl missed the olympics by1
> boat in the Soling Class. (I think that is correct). For $60 thiswas
> great entertainment for an around the beer can racer like myself.those
> Kind of like playing golf with Tiger Woods for free, or one of
> baseball fantasy camps.else tried
>
> good luck
> David Jost
> "victim of bondo blowout"
>
> >
> > I've read Michalak's references to using bondo on boats - anyone
> > this? It's a lot cheaper than West epoxy with whatever magical,pricey
> > powder mixed in..... I wonder how well it sticks to epoxy, andvice-versa? I
> > suppose for filling in screw heads and such, small areas, it oughtto work
> > just fine, long as you cover it with cloth afterwards; the stuffseemed to
> > always work loose eventually otherwise.glue.
> >
> > Paul Lefebvre
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: pongo19050@y... [mailto:pongo19050@y...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 8:56 AM
> > To: bolger@y...
> > Subject: [bolger] Re: stitching and glueing a Light Dory?
> >
> > Jim Michalak built a Bolger dory some years ago by stitch and
> > And he used (CAUTION: cover the children's eyes)resin
> > polyester resin and Bondo! ( I have a soft spot for polyester
> > and Bondo because my first car, a 1967 Dodge Dart, was made mostlyof
> > the stuff by the time I sold it. Some people wax nostalgic whenthey
> > smell the sea air or a pine forest. That noxious pelyester scentMA,
> > does it for me.)
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Andy Farquhar
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > - no flogging dead horses
> > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
> > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349http://docs.yahoo.com/info/
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> terms/
The Bolger Nymph I that I built used Isothalic resin. the only
mistake(s) I made were that the resin was without wax and would not
set up until painted! Oops. and I also made the gunwales too narrow
thus making mounting the oarlocks a bit of a trick. this still was a
fun little boat that is probably still going. I sold it a number of
years back.
It is probably ok to use. I don't know how resistant it is to peeling
forces. That always seems to be the disadvantage of using polyesther
resins for sheathing. they don't seem to penetrate the wood as well
as epoxy, thus don't get as tenacious a bond.
David Jost
mistake(s) I made were that the resin was without wax and would not
set up until painted! Oops. and I also made the gunwales too narrow
thus making mounting the oarlocks a bit of a trick. this still was a
fun little boat that is probably still going. I sold it a number of
years back.
It is probably ok to use. I don't know how resistant it is to peeling
forces. That always seems to be the disadvantage of using polyesther
resins for sheathing. they don't seem to penetrate the wood as well
as epoxy, thus don't get as tenacious a bond.
David Jost
---ravencoast@...wrote:
Roger
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> Dear Bolgerists:epoxys. Now you have me thinking.
>
>
>
> PS: I did go on way too long about this--- please
> forgive!
>
> I forgot to add, Nice responce nd explantion on the
Roger
>__________________________________________________
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
---ravencoast@...wrote:
CHeck the "AA" thread bounded by local knights all a
sot on mead.
No NO MORE WATER It's Cold, ssoo ccoldd.
Roger
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> Dear Bolgerists:trouble.
>
>
>
> PS: I did go on way too long about this--- please
> forgive!
>
> Nope. If that were needed we would all be in
CHeck the "AA" thread bounded by local knights all a
sot on mead.
No NO MORE WATER It's Cold, ssoo ccoldd.
Roger
>__________________________________________________
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Very interesting.
Anyone else have any info on this stuff.
Let's not have another generation of de-laminated trimarans,
or another generation of very disheartend boat builders.
It seems we are all cheap and it's a shame that the cost of
epoxy causes us all to shudder when it comes to building, but
a boat that falls apart is not a very good deal.
If this is the "Magic Bullet", great, and I would use it, but I need
a lot more technical information befor I put in the time to build a
boat but try to save a little money on disaster waiting to happen.
Thanks
Pat
Anyone else have any info on this stuff.
Let's not have another generation of de-laminated trimarans,
or another generation of very disheartend boat builders.
It seems we are all cheap and it's a shame that the cost of
epoxy causes us all to shudder when it comes to building, but
a boat that falls apart is not a very good deal.
If this is the "Magic Bullet", great, and I would use it, but I need
a lot more technical information befor I put in the time to build a
boat but try to save a little money on disaster waiting to happen.
Thanks
Pat
--- In bolger@e..., ravencoast@t... wrote:
> Dear Bolgerists:
>
> I know most people consider epoxy the de facto glue and sheathing
> resin for wood-composite boats, but my consultation with a master
> boatbuilder and his yacht-designer wife living and working here in
> British Columbia has revealed that epoxy is not necessarily the
last
> word on composite boats. Epoxy certainly is a great material, and
his
> it's place in boatbuilding, but what my friends told me about the
> whole resin scene opened my eyes to few things.
>
> This couple gave me their take on the polyester vs epoxy debate and
> have totally re-educated me on the virtues of a different kind of
> polyester resin for certain wood-composite yachts. It is not the
> polyester resin you buy in a jug off the shelf at Wal-Mart, no
siree.
> The resin they used is a chemically different variation on
polyester
> resin called "Isothalic Resin". You get it at industrial resin
supply
> stores, usually by the barrel. I think fiberglass boatbuilders use
it
> in areas like engine rooms (high heat), but use cheaper resin
> elsewhere (money is the bottom line in production boatbuilding,
> right?).It is a very different creature than regular, "orthothalic
> resin" and has many different properties which make it superior for
> boats, especially one-offs, where the cost difference would be less
> noticeable.
>
> I'll try and relate here what they told me about the wonders of Iso-
> resin. I'll try and be brief, I'll try...
>
> The boat they built is a 39' flush-deck pilothouse cruiser using
> basically strip-plank with fg cloth inside and out to quite a thick
> lamination. They call it a wood-cored boat, not strip-plank
actually.
> See it at:
>http://members.tripod.com/fredjamor/
>
> The vessel is more than ten years old, the wood core remains dry,
and
> the fiberglass sheathing (inside and out) is firmly bonded to that
> core, just like epoxy. Evidently epoxy glue is not the only gig in
> town, and we have been led astray on that point, mostly by the
> horrible delaminations produced using the inferior ortho-resin.
>
> Isothalic resin is so tough it is used for lagging exhaust pipes,
> hence is highly heat-resistant, making it good for boats sailing in
> tropical climates. It is stronger and more scratch resistant than
> regular resin, UV stable (unpainted epoxy is famously vulnerable to
> UV degredation), and sticks to wood. I think they said it is
> something on the order of only 10% more in cost than ortho-resin,
and
> of course much cheaper than epoxy.
>
> I like how they were able to have the outer skin of their hull as
> incredibly tough gel-coat (something you cannot do with epoxy,
which
> would have to be painted to protect it from UV, or loaded up with
UV
> inhibitors). They never have to paint the hull.
>
> It would be very interesting to build something like a Bolger
Diablo,
> using bondo or resin and thickener(without guilt or looking over
> one's shoulder!)to fillet chines, frames, etc, then taping with Iso-
> resin and cloth, then see how it turns out. It may require a little
> more attention to proper use of the material, but I think it would
> make a very serviceable and long-lasting hull.
>
> I would imagine the material would be well suited to round-bilged
> Bolger vessels such as "Ataraxia", which bears some resemblance to
my
> friends' vessel, "Timeless".
>
> For boatbuilders up north in places like the Yukon and Alaska there
> is another boon: Iso-resin uses two different kinds of catalysts
> which allow it to be fine-tuned to different extremes of
temperature:
> Promoter-W, and Cobalt. These agents can really make that resin
kick,
> even in sub-zero temps with the snow falling. So much so, in fact,
> that one has to avoid pouring the resin thus-kicking into large
keel
> cavities in great amounts, for fear of generating enough heat to
> start a fire.
>
> Isothalic resin evidently involves a steeper learning curve than
> epoxy or orthothalic resin (though even these are by no means fool-
> proof), but with some attention to handling of the product it has
the
> potential to yield good results at an economical price. I think
> Bolger and Payson would approve!
>
> Alex Christie
> Denman Island, BC
>
> PS: I did go on way too long about this--- please forgive!
Dear Bolgerists:
I know most people consider epoxy the de facto glue and sheathing
resin for wood-composite boats, but my consultation with a master
boatbuilder and his yacht-designer wife living and working here in
British Columbia has revealed that epoxy is not necessarily the last
word on composite boats. Epoxy certainly is a great material, and his
it's place in boatbuilding, but what my friends told me about the
whole resin scene opened my eyes to few things.
This couple gave me their take on the polyester vs epoxy debate and
have totally re-educated me on the virtues of a different kind of
polyester resin for certain wood-composite yachts. It is not the
polyester resin you buy in a jug off the shelf at Wal-Mart, no siree.
The resin they used is a chemically different variation on polyester
resin called "Isothalic Resin". You get it at industrial resin supply
stores, usually by the barrel. I think fiberglass boatbuilders use it
in areas like engine rooms (high heat), but use cheaper resin
elsewhere (money is the bottom line in production boatbuilding,
right?).It is a very different creature than regular, "orthothalic
resin" and has many different properties which make it superior for
boats, especially one-offs, where the cost difference would be less
noticeable.
I'll try and relate here what they told me about the wonders of Iso-
resin. I'll try and be brief, I'll try...
The boat they built is a 39' flush-deck pilothouse cruiser using
basically strip-plank with fg cloth inside and out to quite a thick
lamination. They call it a wood-cored boat, not strip-plank actually.
See it at:
http://members.tripod.com/fredjamor/
The vessel is more than ten years old, the wood core remains dry, and
the fiberglass sheathing (inside and out) is firmly bonded to that
core, just like epoxy. Evidently epoxy glue is not the only gig in
town, and we have been led astray on that point, mostly by the
horrible delaminations produced using the inferior ortho-resin.
Isothalic resin is so tough it is used for lagging exhaust pipes,
hence is highly heat-resistant, making it good for boats sailing in
tropical climates. It is stronger and more scratch resistant than
regular resin, UV stable (unpainted epoxy is famously vulnerable to
UV degredation), and sticks to wood. I think they said it is
something on the order of only 10% more in cost than ortho-resin, and
of course much cheaper than epoxy.
I like how they were able to have the outer skin of their hull as
incredibly tough gel-coat (something you cannot do with epoxy, which
would have to be painted to protect it from UV, or loaded up with UV
inhibitors). They never have to paint the hull.
It would be very interesting to build something like a Bolger Diablo,
using bondo or resin and thickener(without guilt or looking over
one's shoulder!)to fillet chines, frames, etc, then taping with Iso-
resin and cloth, then see how it turns out. It may require a little
more attention to proper use of the material, but I think it would
make a very serviceable and long-lasting hull.
I would imagine the material would be well suited to round-bilged
Bolger vessels such as "Ataraxia", which bears some resemblance to my
friends' vessel, "Timeless".
For boatbuilders up north in places like the Yukon and Alaska there
is another boon: Iso-resin uses two different kinds of catalysts
which allow it to be fine-tuned to different extremes of temperature:
Promoter-W, and Cobalt. These agents can really make that resin kick,
even in sub-zero temps with the snow falling. So much so, in fact,
that one has to avoid pouring the resin thus-kicking into large keel
cavities in great amounts, for fear of generating enough heat to
start a fire.
Isothalic resin evidently involves a steeper learning curve than
epoxy or orthothalic resin (though even these are by no means fool-
proof), but with some attention to handling of the product it has the
potential to yield good results at an economical price. I think
Bolger and Payson would approve!
Alex Christie
Denman Island, BC
PS: I did go on way too long about this--- please forgive!
I know most people consider epoxy the de facto glue and sheathing
resin for wood-composite boats, but my consultation with a master
boatbuilder and his yacht-designer wife living and working here in
British Columbia has revealed that epoxy is not necessarily the last
word on composite boats. Epoxy certainly is a great material, and his
it's place in boatbuilding, but what my friends told me about the
whole resin scene opened my eyes to few things.
This couple gave me their take on the polyester vs epoxy debate and
have totally re-educated me on the virtues of a different kind of
polyester resin for certain wood-composite yachts. It is not the
polyester resin you buy in a jug off the shelf at Wal-Mart, no siree.
The resin they used is a chemically different variation on polyester
resin called "Isothalic Resin". You get it at industrial resin supply
stores, usually by the barrel. I think fiberglass boatbuilders use it
in areas like engine rooms (high heat), but use cheaper resin
elsewhere (money is the bottom line in production boatbuilding,
right?).It is a very different creature than regular, "orthothalic
resin" and has many different properties which make it superior for
boats, especially one-offs, where the cost difference would be less
noticeable.
I'll try and relate here what they told me about the wonders of Iso-
resin. I'll try and be brief, I'll try...
The boat they built is a 39' flush-deck pilothouse cruiser using
basically strip-plank with fg cloth inside and out to quite a thick
lamination. They call it a wood-cored boat, not strip-plank actually.
See it at:
http://members.tripod.com/fredjamor/
The vessel is more than ten years old, the wood core remains dry, and
the fiberglass sheathing (inside and out) is firmly bonded to that
core, just like epoxy. Evidently epoxy glue is not the only gig in
town, and we have been led astray on that point, mostly by the
horrible delaminations produced using the inferior ortho-resin.
Isothalic resin is so tough it is used for lagging exhaust pipes,
hence is highly heat-resistant, making it good for boats sailing in
tropical climates. It is stronger and more scratch resistant than
regular resin, UV stable (unpainted epoxy is famously vulnerable to
UV degredation), and sticks to wood. I think they said it is
something on the order of only 10% more in cost than ortho-resin, and
of course much cheaper than epoxy.
I like how they were able to have the outer skin of their hull as
incredibly tough gel-coat (something you cannot do with epoxy, which
would have to be painted to protect it from UV, or loaded up with UV
inhibitors). They never have to paint the hull.
It would be very interesting to build something like a Bolger Diablo,
using bondo or resin and thickener(without guilt or looking over
one's shoulder!)to fillet chines, frames, etc, then taping with Iso-
resin and cloth, then see how it turns out. It may require a little
more attention to proper use of the material, but I think it would
make a very serviceable and long-lasting hull.
I would imagine the material would be well suited to round-bilged
Bolger vessels such as "Ataraxia", which bears some resemblance to my
friends' vessel, "Timeless".
For boatbuilders up north in places like the Yukon and Alaska there
is another boon: Iso-resin uses two different kinds of catalysts
which allow it to be fine-tuned to different extremes of temperature:
Promoter-W, and Cobalt. These agents can really make that resin kick,
even in sub-zero temps with the snow falling. So much so, in fact,
that one has to avoid pouring the resin thus-kicking into large keel
cavities in great amounts, for fear of generating enough heat to
start a fire.
Isothalic resin evidently involves a steeper learning curve than
epoxy or orthothalic resin (though even these are by no means fool-
proof), but with some attention to handling of the product it has the
potential to yield good results at an economical price. I think
Bolger and Payson would approve!
Alex Christie
Denman Island, BC
PS: I did go on way too long about this--- please forgive!
---pongo19050@...wrote:
Rog
Oh blow the man down maties blow the man down.
Arrgh, I be a sailor.
(Note the aproaching neighbor with large bucket of
water)
SPLASH!
AAHH Cold Cold, the water she be cold.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> Jim Michalak built a Bolger dory some years ago bysicking resulting high from lack of ventilation.
> stitch and glue.
> He talks about it in one of his newsletters in an
> article about taped
> seams. If I remember correctly, he built it about
> 15 years ago and
> its still going. And he used (CAUTION: cover the
> children's eyes)
> polyester resin and Bondo! ( I have a soft spot for
> polyester resin
> and Bondo because my first car, a 1967 Dodge Dart,
> was made mostly of
> the stuff by the time I sold it. Some people wax
> nostalgic when they
> smell the sea air or a pine forest. That noxious
> pelyester scent
> does it for me.)
>
> Regards
>
> Andy Farquhar
>
> Ahhh. Sweet memories. The scent of resin and the
Rog
Oh blow the man down maties blow the man down.
Arrgh, I be a sailor.
(Note the aproaching neighbor with large bucket of
water)
SPLASH!
AAHH Cold Cold, the water she be cold.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Yeah, and I patched a sizeable door ding in my '65 Corvair with it, but I
like my Pointy Skiff better (have to stay on subject, right)
like my Pointy Skiff better (have to stay on subject, right)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul A. Lefebvre, Jr. [mailto:paul@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 12:16 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [bolger] Bondo! is an no go!
>
>
> Great story, Dave! I had 'Bondo blowout' on my '68 Falcon wagon
> once......but it's not worth retelling.
>
> Your comment about 'if the class had stuck with this concept it would be a
> lot stronger today' had me chuckling to myself at my own thought
> process. I
> was given a copy of 'The Darwin Award' book for Christmas by my somewhat
> demented brother and recently began reading it, so my first
> thought was not
> cheap construction, making a boat available to many, as I believe you
> intended, but rather, natural selection and its implications....
>
> I guess I'll drop the idea of shopping for cheap boatbuilding supplies at
> Autozone; if I ever do get a Micro in the water I sure don't want to worry
> about such things.....
>
> Paul Lefebvre
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Great story, Dave! I had 'Bondo blowout' on my '68 Falcon wagon
once......but it's not worth retelling.
Your comment about 'if the class had stuck with this concept it would be a
lot stronger today' had me chuckling to myself at my own thought process. I
was given a copy of 'The Darwin Award' book for Christmas by my somewhat
demented brother and recently began reading it, so my first thought was not
cheap construction, making a boat available to many, as I believe you
intended, but rather, natural selection and its implications....
I guess I'll drop the idea of shopping for cheap boatbuilding supplies at
Autozone; if I ever do get a Micro in the water I sure don't want to worry
about such things.....
Paul Lefebvre
once......but it's not worth retelling.
Your comment about 'if the class had stuck with this concept it would be a
lot stronger today' had me chuckling to myself at my own thought process. I
was given a copy of 'The Darwin Award' book for Christmas by my somewhat
demented brother and recently began reading it, so my first thought was not
cheap construction, making a boat available to many, as I believe you
intended, but rather, natural selection and its implications....
I guess I'll drop the idea of shopping for cheap boatbuilding supplies at
Autozone; if I ever do get a Micro in the water I sure don't want to worry
about such things.....
Paul Lefebvre
>I use Bondo at least once a week, sometimes a lot more, but I still don'tWhen we first moved to Montauk, there was a surfboard shaper that
>have any affection for the smell. I'll keep working on it.
>
>Chuck
>
>
>>( I have a soft spot for polyester resin
lived next to us. I still remember the first time he gave me the
nickle tour of his shop. That resin smell took me to another shaper's
shop 3500 miles away and 25 years earlier where my Dad took me to
check in on a custom 8'6" he was having shaped for big winter surf in
California.
All in all, I can do without polyester resin in my life, but every
once in a while I catch a wiff and the nostalgia kicks in.
-D
CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
Yes, I have built a boat using bondo.
the Cape Cod Frosty was originally built to specifications that called
for bond fillet, luan ply, and hardware store items. To be honest,
if the class had stuck with this concept it would be a lot stronger
today.
the story goes like this. In one of the rare cases in which I
actually had a 15 boat length lead in a race due to an amazing wind
shift. I was bearing down on the finish line on the last leg of the
race. I noticed that i was taking on a fair amount of water from the
port chine area. This chine crack spread very fast and I ultimately
swamped no less than three boat lengths from the finish line as I
could not bail fast enough to preserve the lead. Frosty sailors refer
to this phenomenon as Bondo blowout. It works real well until it gets
wet, then the talc/polyester mix becomes quite soggy and fails.
Current Frostys are built using traditional tack and tape with epoxy
fillets over glass.
I failed to mention that the tape we set into the bondo was
fiberglass window screening! It worked pretty well until the bondo
failed. You could build a complete frosty for around $60 minus that
sail. The amazing thing was the quality of sailor who showed up to
race these things. Some went on to fame and fortune. Karl Anderson,
and Tyler Moore became J24 Champions and Karl missed the olympics by 1
boat in the Soling Class. (I think that is correct). For $60 this was
great entertainment for an around the beer can racer like myself.
Kind of like playing golf with Tiger Woods for free, or one of those
baseball fantasy camps.
good luck
David Jost
"victim of bondo blowout"
the Cape Cod Frosty was originally built to specifications that called
for bond fillet, luan ply, and hardware store items. To be honest,
if the class had stuck with this concept it would be a lot stronger
today.
the story goes like this. In one of the rare cases in which I
actually had a 15 boat length lead in a race due to an amazing wind
shift. I was bearing down on the finish line on the last leg of the
race. I noticed that i was taking on a fair amount of water from the
port chine area. This chine crack spread very fast and I ultimately
swamped no less than three boat lengths from the finish line as I
could not bail fast enough to preserve the lead. Frosty sailors refer
to this phenomenon as Bondo blowout. It works real well until it gets
wet, then the talc/polyester mix becomes quite soggy and fails.
Current Frostys are built using traditional tack and tape with epoxy
fillets over glass.
I failed to mention that the tape we set into the bondo was
fiberglass window screening! It worked pretty well until the bondo
failed. You could build a complete frosty for around $60 minus that
sail. The amazing thing was the quality of sailor who showed up to
race these things. Some went on to fame and fortune. Karl Anderson,
and Tyler Moore became J24 Champions and Karl missed the olympics by 1
boat in the Soling Class. (I think that is correct). For $60 this was
great entertainment for an around the beer can racer like myself.
Kind of like playing golf with Tiger Woods for free, or one of those
baseball fantasy camps.
good luck
David Jost
"victim of bondo blowout"
>terms/
> I've read Michalak's references to using bondo on boats - anyone else tried
> this? It's a lot cheaper than West epoxy with whatever magical, pricey
> powder mixed in..... I wonder how well it sticks to epoxy, and vice-versa? I
> suppose for filling in screw heads and such, small areas, it ought to work
> just fine, long as you cover it with cloth afterwards; the stuff seemed to
> always work loose eventually otherwise.
>
> Paul Lefebvre
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pongo19050@y... [mailto:pongo19050@y...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 8:56 AM
> To: bolger@y...
> Subject: [bolger] Re: stitching and glueing a Light Dory?
>
> Jim Michalak built a Bolger dory some years ago by stitch and glue.
> And he used (CAUTION: cover the children's eyes)
> polyester resin and Bondo! ( I have a soft spot for polyester resin
> and Bondo because my first car, a 1967 Dodge Dart, was made mostly of
> the stuff by the time I sold it. Some people wax nostalgic when they
> smell the sea air or a pine forest. That noxious pelyester scent
> does it for me.)
>
> Regards
>
> Andy Farquhar
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/
Hey Andy, I can relate - my first 4 or 5 cars were mostly bondo, and I still
have a similar response to the smell..... in fact certain songs from the
early 70's bring up an instant memory of the smell of bondo, songs I first
heard on the local college FM station (playing through a single tinny
mid-dash speaker, over a Radio Shack FM converter wired into the AM radio,
which I thought was way cool!) as I was laying on the glop, or shaping it
while still ripe with a cheap surform cheese-grater..... and my first
adventures with fiberglass were decades before I ever dreamed I'd build
boats.....
I've read Michalak's references to using bondo on boats - anyone else tried
this? It's a lot cheaper than West epoxy with whatever magical, pricey
powder mixed in..... I wonder how well it sticks to epoxy, and vice-versa? I
suppose for filling in screw heads and such, small areas, it ought to work
just fine, long as you cover it with cloth afterwards; the stuff seemed to
always work loose eventually otherwise.
Paul Lefebvre
-----Original Message-----
From:pongo19050@...[mailto:pongo19050@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 8:56 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: stitching and glueing a Light Dory?
Jim Michalak built a Bolger dory some years ago by stitch and glue.
And he used (CAUTION: cover the children's eyes)
polyester resin and Bondo! ( I have a soft spot for polyester resin
and Bondo because my first car, a 1967 Dodge Dart, was made mostly of
the stuff by the time I sold it. Some people wax nostalgic when they
smell the sea air or a pine forest. That noxious pelyester scent
does it for me.)
Regards
Andy Farquhar
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
have a similar response to the smell..... in fact certain songs from the
early 70's bring up an instant memory of the smell of bondo, songs I first
heard on the local college FM station (playing through a single tinny
mid-dash speaker, over a Radio Shack FM converter wired into the AM radio,
which I thought was way cool!) as I was laying on the glop, or shaping it
while still ripe with a cheap surform cheese-grater..... and my first
adventures with fiberglass were decades before I ever dreamed I'd build
boats.....
I've read Michalak's references to using bondo on boats - anyone else tried
this? It's a lot cheaper than West epoxy with whatever magical, pricey
powder mixed in..... I wonder how well it sticks to epoxy, and vice-versa? I
suppose for filling in screw heads and such, small areas, it ought to work
just fine, long as you cover it with cloth afterwards; the stuff seemed to
always work loose eventually otherwise.
Paul Lefebvre
-----Original Message-----
From:pongo19050@...[mailto:pongo19050@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 8:56 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: stitching and glueing a Light Dory?
Jim Michalak built a Bolger dory some years ago by stitch and glue.
And he used (CAUTION: cover the children's eyes)
polyester resin and Bondo! ( I have a soft spot for polyester resin
and Bondo because my first car, a 1967 Dodge Dart, was made mostly of
the stuff by the time I sold it. Some people wax nostalgic when they
smell the sea air or a pine forest. That noxious pelyester scent
does it for me.)
Regards
Andy Farquhar
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Andy:
I use Bondo at least once a week, sometimes a lot more, but I still don't
have any affection for the smell. I'll keep working on it.
Chuck
I use Bondo at least once a week, sometimes a lot more, but I still don't
have any affection for the smell. I'll keep working on it.
Chuck
>( I have a soft spot for polyester resin
> and Bondo because my first car, a 1967 Dodge Dart, was made mostly of
> the stuff by the time I sold it. Some people wax nostalgic when they
> smell the sea air or a pine forest. That noxious pelyester scent
> does it for me.)
>
> Regards
>
> Andy Farquhar
Jim Michalak built a Bolger dory some years ago by stitch and glue.
He talks about it in one of his newsletters in an article about taped
seams. If I remember correctly, he built it about 15 years ago and
its still going. And he used (CAUTION: cover the children's eyes)
polyester resin and Bondo! ( I have a soft spot for polyester resin
and Bondo because my first car, a 1967 Dodge Dart, was made mostly of
the stuff by the time I sold it. Some people wax nostalgic when they
smell the sea air or a pine forest. That noxious pelyester scent
does it for me.)
Regards
Andy Farquhar
He talks about it in one of his newsletters in an article about taped
seams. If I remember correctly, he built it about 15 years ago and
its still going. And he used (CAUTION: cover the children's eyes)
polyester resin and Bondo! ( I have a soft spot for polyester resin
and Bondo because my first car, a 1967 Dodge Dart, was made mostly of
the stuff by the time I sold it. Some people wax nostalgic when they
smell the sea air or a pine forest. That noxious pelyester scent
does it for me.)
Regards
Andy Farquhar
I would assume you have Payson's "How to build the Gloucester Light
Dory"
If not, buy it. Read it. Read it again so you understand what you
read the first time. Then build a paper model.
Stitch and glue have their place, but not here.
The boat has internal chines. Just one per side, not difficult.
It a lot easier to to deal with one long flexiblble chine log and
screws than it is to try to line everything up and drill and stich
and mess with all the epoxy fillets and tape and hope everything
turns our fair.
While the side drawings are given in 1/8 + - , you would have to
draw the bottom from the station dimentions and hope they line up.
Frames and sides give you some margine for error to cut the bottom
a little fat and trim back.
If you are worried about the cost of frames, build them out
of mdf, or even cheaper, particle board.
If you like the boat (and I know you will) and want to build another
sometime, you will have the forms.
Lay out the patterns so you get the best use out of each 4x8 sheet.
see pg 8
I had a wooden floor so I didn't have to use the ladder frame.
I've build lots of wooden boats and the one thing I have learned
is that if you build to someone's plans, follow them. They figured
all this stuff out.
If you think you know more than Bolger or Payson, or that the
other folks here do, then go ahead and build stich and glue.
Buy the book, read it, read it agian,
Build a model.
Mine turned out great.
The only difficult parts are bending the gunwale pieces, as they
have reverse curves toward the stern, and cutting the stem. You must
have a band saw, and reattach the bevel (pg 10)befor cutting the
other side.
As Payson writes in the book.
"I took a quick look, then a much longer one. I was looking at the
Glocester gull.
How many do you want? I asked him after a while. He wanted three.
Since that day I have built hore than a hundred, and have helped
launch God knows how may hundreds more by selling plans.
It wasn't just the lovely lines that made me want to build Bolger's
design. It was also a matter of building style. The hull lends
itself to building upside down on a jig, just the way I had been
doing wuth skiffs--put the stem and stern in place, fasten the
sides to them , put the chines in and the bottom on, then pull the
hull off, and there you are, all done so far as the basic hull
shape is concerned."
The only change I made was to put the oarlock inboard, rather than
throught the gunwales.
Also best to use side pattern cutting #2 so you get left and
right side out of the plywood and can put the good sides out.
Let me know it you have any other questions.
Pat
Dory"
If not, buy it. Read it. Read it again so you understand what you
read the first time. Then build a paper model.
Stitch and glue have their place, but not here.
The boat has internal chines. Just one per side, not difficult.
It a lot easier to to deal with one long flexiblble chine log and
screws than it is to try to line everything up and drill and stich
and mess with all the epoxy fillets and tape and hope everything
turns our fair.
While the side drawings are given in 1/8 + - , you would have to
draw the bottom from the station dimentions and hope they line up.
Frames and sides give you some margine for error to cut the bottom
a little fat and trim back.
If you are worried about the cost of frames, build them out
of mdf, or even cheaper, particle board.
If you like the boat (and I know you will) and want to build another
sometime, you will have the forms.
Lay out the patterns so you get the best use out of each 4x8 sheet.
see pg 8
I had a wooden floor so I didn't have to use the ladder frame.
I've build lots of wooden boats and the one thing I have learned
is that if you build to someone's plans, follow them. They figured
all this stuff out.
If you think you know more than Bolger or Payson, or that the
other folks here do, then go ahead and build stich and glue.
Buy the book, read it, read it agian,
Build a model.
Mine turned out great.
The only difficult parts are bending the gunwale pieces, as they
have reverse curves toward the stern, and cutting the stem. You must
have a band saw, and reattach the bevel (pg 10)befor cutting the
other side.
As Payson writes in the book.
"I took a quick look, then a much longer one. I was looking at the
Glocester gull.
How many do you want? I asked him after a while. He wanted three.
Since that day I have built hore than a hundred, and have helped
launch God knows how may hundreds more by selling plans.
It wasn't just the lovely lines that made me want to build Bolger's
design. It was also a matter of building style. The hull lends
itself to building upside down on a jig, just the way I had been
doing wuth skiffs--put the stem and stern in place, fasten the
sides to them , put the chines in and the bottom on, then pull the
hull off, and there you are, all done so far as the basic hull
shape is concerned."
The only change I made was to put the oarlock inboard, rather than
throught the gunwales.
Also best to use side pattern cutting #2 so you get left and
right side out of the plywood and can put the good sides out.
Let me know it you have any other questions.
Pat
--- In bolger@y..., "Bill Dodson" <lurkerdog@y...> wrote:
> Hi,
> I've been through the archives and seen mention of using stitch and
> glue to build a Gloucester Light Dory. I'm about to start
> construction of my own Light Dory (my first boatbuilding project),
> and would appreciate any comments, warnings, advice, whatever about
> its suitability for stitch and glue. I've studied Payson's how to
> build book... I don't mind constructing a rigid building jig, but
I'd
> rather save some time and materials since I'm only planning on
> building one dory.
>
> Thanks,
> Bill Dodson
> I'm only planning on building one dory.Hi Bill,
If your only going to build one dory (thats what I said and now I'm
starting #4), then follow Paysons plans and use the forms regardless
of going hard chine or epoxy fillet. That way your one boat will end
up fair. Nothing more fustrating than a twisted hull. That happened
on my Nymph and it set me back days of work, alot of sweat and quite
a bit of money and I darn near wore out my moaning chair.
By the way, in the book, Payson uses inside chines and the prints
show an optional external chine method to use if desired. When it
comes time for me to build mine, I have decided to stich and glue her
with the forms in place. Once bitten - twice shy!
Build her!
Rich
A few years ago, I went out for a long paddle with a couple other kayaks,
and a couple guys in dories (sorry, I don't know what exact kind, there are
a lot of Bolger dories around here, but other kinds too, and I wasn't as
tuned into such things then as I am now). As I remember it, they were both
identical boats, same design, except one had external chine logs, the other
rower/builder had put the chine logs inside instead, due to having the same
suspicions about turbulence as Garth. It was this boat's first long outing
on the water, and they were comparing the two boats side-by-side, and at the
end of the day the conclusion was that the boat with the internal chine logs
was quite a bit faster than the other, and tended to glide much further, all
else being roughly equal (actually, the internal log boat's rower was less
experienced, and somewhat heavier)..... FWIW... but that episode has always
stuck in my head, and when I see drawings and photos of boats with external
chine logs, I always think that if I built that boat I'd stick 'em inside,
round over the exposed corners nicely, and if the dirt-trapping crevices got
too annoying, I'd slap a little fillet in there....
Paul Lefebvre
Looking forward to being snowed in tomorrow on Cape Cod, so I can finish up
Micro's mainsail!
-----Original Message-----
From:garth@...[mailto:garth@...]
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2001 3:08 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: stitching and glueing a Light Dory?
I had it in my head that external chine logs
would cause turbulence and slow the boat. This may not even be true
(?).
Garth
and a couple guys in dories (sorry, I don't know what exact kind, there are
a lot of Bolger dories around here, but other kinds too, and I wasn't as
tuned into such things then as I am now). As I remember it, they were both
identical boats, same design, except one had external chine logs, the other
rower/builder had put the chine logs inside instead, due to having the same
suspicions about turbulence as Garth. It was this boat's first long outing
on the water, and they were comparing the two boats side-by-side, and at the
end of the day the conclusion was that the boat with the internal chine logs
was quite a bit faster than the other, and tended to glide much further, all
else being roughly equal (actually, the internal log boat's rower was less
experienced, and somewhat heavier)..... FWIW... but that episode has always
stuck in my head, and when I see drawings and photos of boats with external
chine logs, I always think that if I built that boat I'd stick 'em inside,
round over the exposed corners nicely, and if the dirt-trapping crevices got
too annoying, I'd slap a little fillet in there....
Paul Lefebvre
Looking forward to being snowed in tomorrow on Cape Cod, so I can finish up
Micro's mainsail!
-----Original Message-----
From:garth@...[mailto:garth@...]
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2001 3:08 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: stitching and glueing a Light Dory?
I had it in my head that external chine logs
would cause turbulence and slow the boat. This may not even be true
(?).
Garth
> I'm about to start construction of my own Light Dory (my firstI don't know the design particulars of the Light Dory, but I built a
> boatbuilding project),and would appreciate any comments, warnings,
> advice, whatever about its suitability for stitch and glue
Windsprint a few years ago. That boat is designed for fit-and-fasten
with wood glue and external chines and I adapted it for stitch and
glue. The only tricky part is keeping your forms' centerlines all
aligned while applying the bottom so you don't get a boat that looks
like a banana. It was my first project and it came out just fine --
perhaps by sheer dumb luck.
One handy tip I picked up later from people on this list was the "Zip-
lock-plastic-bag-with-a-corner-snipped-off-as-fillet-applicator" idea
-- makes much smoother, nonbumpy fillets.
But in retrospect, the whole stitch-and-glue thing might not have
been the best idea. I had it in my head that external chine logs
would cause turbulence and slow the boat. This may not even be true
(?). In the end, it's not much of a racer and speed isn't the object.
So it's really an esthetic choice, twice over: the looks of the boat
vs. the pleasure of building. As people on this list have commented,
it's more satisfying to plane down your chine logs by hand and smell
the wood than it is to work with epoxy and silica -- and then sand
it.
In any case -- good luck! It's a great feeling to build your first
boat.
All best,
Garth
Hi Bill,
I built a S&G Light Dory last winter, those may have been my
posts that you read. I made several shortcuts that made it so I
didn't have to build a jig (but I did need to pay extra attention to
making sure of alignment). I used 1/4" sides and 3/8" bottom,
finished weight came in around 85 lbs, taking almost 40 lbs off of
the original's weight. The boat went together very fast and easy. I
used her alot for exercise rowing last year and plan to try some
overnight camping out of her this year. The boat is absolutely
beautiful and gets compliments wherever I take her. I have some
photos I could scan and send along.
Please feel free to e-mail me for any information you might need
or any help I can offer.
Jake
I built a S&G Light Dory last winter, those may have been my
posts that you read. I made several shortcuts that made it so I
didn't have to build a jig (but I did need to pay extra attention to
making sure of alignment). I used 1/4" sides and 3/8" bottom,
finished weight came in around 85 lbs, taking almost 40 lbs off of
the original's weight. The boat went together very fast and easy. I
used her alot for exercise rowing last year and plan to try some
overnight camping out of her this year. The boat is absolutely
beautiful and gets compliments wherever I take her. I have some
photos I could scan and send along.
Please feel free to e-mail me for any information you might need
or any help I can offer.
Jake
--- In bolger@y..., "Bill Dodson" <lurkerdog@y...> wrote:
> Hi,
> I've been through the archives and seen mention of using stitch and
> glue to build a Gloucester Light Dory.
Andy Wolfe at Upperdeck Boatshop sells kits for S&G dories. He is on
the web athttp://www.upperdeckboats.com/
Ron
the web athttp://www.upperdeckboats.com/
Ron
On Sun, 04 Mar 2001 17:43:30 -0000, you wrote:
>Hi,
>I've been through the archives and seen mention of using stitch and
>glue to build a Gloucester Light Dory. I'm about to start
>construction of my own Light Dory (my first boatbuilding project),
>and would appreciate any comments, warnings, advice, whatever about
>its suitability for stitch and glue. I've studied Payson's how to
>build book... I don't mind constructing a rigid building jig, but I'd
>rather save some time and materials since I'm only planning on
>building one dory.
>
>Thanks,
>Bill Dodson
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
>- no flogging dead horses
>- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>- stay on topic and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
Bill:
I will give you my take on stitch and glue:
I have built boats both ways, and I think that the S&G gives a much better
boat with only a little more work. That said, there are a couple of things
that you should keep in mind. 1) Use bi-axial tape - it feathers well at
the edge, and is much stronger, as you use all the fibers rather than half
of them. 2) Get the timing and sequence right - when the stitching is done,
paint the entire joint with liquid epoxy, next apply the fillet, and (this
is key) then apply the tape while the rest is still soft. If you allow the
fillet to set up before taping, you will have a much bigger job. Good luck.
Chuck
I will give you my take on stitch and glue:
I have built boats both ways, and I think that the S&G gives a much better
boat with only a little more work. That said, there are a couple of things
that you should keep in mind. 1) Use bi-axial tape - it feathers well at
the edge, and is much stronger, as you use all the fibers rather than half
of them. 2) Get the timing and sequence right - when the stitching is done,
paint the entire joint with liquid epoxy, next apply the fillet, and (this
is key) then apply the tape while the rest is still soft. If you allow the
fillet to set up before taping, you will have a much bigger job. Good luck.
Chuck
> Hi,
> I've been through the archives and seen mention of using stitch and
> glue to build a Gloucester Light Dory. I'm about to start
> construction of my own Light Dory (my first boatbuilding project),
> and would appreciate any comments, warnings, advice, whatever about
> its suitability for stitch and glue. I've studied Payson's how to
> build book... I don't mind constructing a rigid building jig, but I'd
> rather save some time and materials since I'm only planning on
> building one dory.
>
> Thanks,
> Bill Dodson
>
Bill,
I think that the Light Dory has external chine logs. Is that
correct? If so, I would not bother with the stitch and glue. It is
relatively easy to rip the chines from a 2X8 and a lot less messy
than dealing with the fiberglass and epoxy. You can save a bundle at
this stage. Getting the bottom attached is very easy with the
external chines.
My Pointy Skiff has external chines, my Diablo is tack and
tape. I have to admit that the durability of both boats is about
equal. The Pointy skiff was a snap to build, the Diablo a little
more work due to the amount of glueing (I also glassed the exterior).
Good luck building, and welcome to the neighborhood.
David Jost
I think that the Light Dory has external chine logs. Is that
correct? If so, I would not bother with the stitch and glue. It is
relatively easy to rip the chines from a 2X8 and a lot less messy
than dealing with the fiberglass and epoxy. You can save a bundle at
this stage. Getting the bottom attached is very easy with the
external chines.
My Pointy Skiff has external chines, my Diablo is tack and
tape. I have to admit that the durability of both boats is about
equal. The Pointy skiff was a snap to build, the Diablo a little
more work due to the amount of glueing (I also glassed the exterior).
Good luck building, and welcome to the neighborhood.
David Jost
> I've been through the archives and seen mention of using stitch andI'd
> glue to build a Gloucester Light Dory. I'm about to start
> construction of my own Light Dory (my first boatbuilding project),
> and would appreciate any comments, warnings, advice, whatever about
> its suitability for stitch and glue. I've studied Payson's how to
> build book... I don't mind constructing a rigid building jig, but
> rather save some time and materials since I'm only planning on
> building one dory.
>
> Thanks,
> Bill Dodson
Hi,
I've been through the archives and seen mention of using stitch and
glue to build a Gloucester Light Dory. I'm about to start
construction of my own Light Dory (my first boatbuilding project),
and would appreciate any comments, warnings, advice, whatever about
its suitability for stitch and glue. I've studied Payson's how to
build book... I don't mind constructing a rigid building jig, but I'd
rather save some time and materials since I'm only planning on
building one dory.
Thanks,
Bill Dodson
I've been through the archives and seen mention of using stitch and
glue to build a Gloucester Light Dory. I'm about to start
construction of my own Light Dory (my first boatbuilding project),
and would appreciate any comments, warnings, advice, whatever about
its suitability for stitch and glue. I've studied Payson's how to
build book... I don't mind constructing a rigid building jig, but I'd
rather save some time and materials since I'm only planning on
building one dory.
Thanks,
Bill Dodson