Re: Cartopper Photos
A very nice looking example Ken!
How does she row? I like your colour scheme. Where are you? And don't
listen to anyone, you're not pazzo, I am!
Bruce Hector
How does she row? I like your colour scheme. Where are you? And don't
listen to anyone, you're not pazzo, I am!
Bruce Hector
Hi All,
I posted some pictures of my Cartopper in an album called "Ken's
Cartopper". She underwent her maiden launch approximately
06/20/03. Her name is "PAZZO". This is italian for crazy, which is
what all my friends called me when I started this project!
Ken
I posted some pictures of my Cartopper in an album called "Ken's
Cartopper". She underwent her maiden launch approximately
06/20/03. Her name is "PAZZO". This is italian for crazy, which is
what all my friends called me when I started this project!
Ken
Hi David,
Before you get carried away consider this;perhaps it is better
to use the UHMW on the dropboard(s) instead of the hatch cover.I say
this since my hatch cover tends to slide open when I am motoring
along,in the rain when I want it to stay closed!The only way I can
prevent this from happening is to not polish my brass strips or to
also use my dropboard and drop a pin into the lock hasp.Not always
desired since my Pesky Crew(who thinks she is made from sugar and
must stay inside the cabin when it rains) insists on keeping the
dropboard OFF so that she can keep me provisioned with goodies and
lots of talk.I confess to liking her way better and sometimes wish my
hatch slide arrangement weren't so slick.
Anyway,just a thought to keep in mind while you scheme along
your dream path of boating adventures yet to be!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,looking forward to this weekend to winterize
WINDERMEREs' storage cover,along the shores of the St.Lawrence.....
Before you get carried away consider this;perhaps it is better
to use the UHMW on the dropboard(s) instead of the hatch cover.I say
this since my hatch cover tends to slide open when I am motoring
along,in the rain when I want it to stay closed!The only way I can
prevent this from happening is to not polish my brass strips or to
also use my dropboard and drop a pin into the lock hasp.Not always
desired since my Pesky Crew(who thinks she is made from sugar and
must stay inside the cabin when it rains) insists on keeping the
dropboard OFF so that she can keep me provisioned with goodies and
lots of talk.I confess to liking her way better and sometimes wish my
hatch slide arrangement weren't so slick.
Anyway,just a thought to keep in mind while you scheme along
your dream path of boating adventures yet to be!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,looking forward to this weekend to winterize
WINDERMEREs' storage cover,along the shores of the St.Lawrence.....
--- In bolger@y..., "dnjost" <djost@m...> wrote:
> wow, This is worth a try as hatch slides for my Micro! Brass
would
> look cooler and work, but this is got to be worth the price of
> admission.
>
>
> David Jost
Many of the fishermen around here have a deflecter made from it
across the front of their boat trailers. Not sure if this is to
protect the boat from flying mud and rocks of from the grasshoppers -
all of which can be pretty damaging.
Nels
across the front of their boat trailers. Not sure if this is to
protect the boat from flying mud and rocks of from the grasshoppers -
all of which can be pretty damaging.
Nels
--- In bolger@y..., "dnjost" <djost@m...> wrote:
> wow, This is worth a try as hatch slides for my Micro! Brass
would
> look cooler and work, but this is got to be worth the price of
> admission.
>
>
> David Jost
wow, This is worth a try as hatch slides for my Micro! Brass would
look cooler and work, but this is got to be worth the price of
admission.
David Jost
look cooler and work, but this is got to be worth the price of
admission.
David Jost
--- In bolger@y..., "brucehallman" <brucehallman@y...> wrote:
<snip>
I have been curious about how
> the snowboard manufactures use
> adhesive backed UHMW to adhere
> to the bottoms of their boards.
> They seem to get great adhesion,
> and it appears a better way to
> connect to the boat than using
> mechanical fasteners.
Here's a repost - this is reporting, not my experience...
Message 23430 of 24963
From: "sals_dad" <sals_dad@b...>
Date: Thu Sep 12, 2002 10:51 am
Subject: UHMW
There's been some discussion of UHMW plastics for bottom
runners/sheathing for small boats; I just spoke with Pete, a product
guy at Crown Plastics:http://www.crownplastics.com/513-367-0238.
They have noticed that boatbuilding may be a pretty good market for
UHMW, and want to understand it better; they've had a lot of interest
from manufacturers of drift boats, air boats, etc.
In the past, you had to use at least 1/4" thick sheets, to allow for
countersinking the screws. Since this isn't great in boats - too
much weight, and lots of screw holes - they've developed two UHMW
product lines that fit the bill - a pressure sensitive adhesive
backed sheet, and a "treated for bonding" sheet. They think 3/32
(.093") may be the best thickness for sheathing the bottom of a boat,
in 12 or 18" widths.
Pressure-Sensitive-Adhesive: Crown applies a 20 mil foam acrylic
adhesive (mfd by Avery Denison) to one side of the sheet. You peel
off the backer sheet (a little at a time) and use a firm roller to
apply about 2' at a time, applying pressure, and rolling out air
bubbles. This adhesive is supposed to be pretty good in a marine
environment, but can be removed (with some difficulty) at a later
date.
Treated-for-Bonding: One surface is roughed up (my
oversimplification) to allow a mechanical bond with epoxy or other
glues. This sounds ideal for boatbuilding, but Pete warns that
it's "permanent" - no removing it later, for any reason. At first,
this sounds good, but what if it does wear out, or you need to make
repairs on the underlying plywood... This system is used in
snowboards, where you just discard the whole assembly...
In either case, thermal expansion can be an issue (a real problem
with thick sheets and screw fastenings); they recommend leaving an
expansion gap (1/16") between pieces, and have processes in
manufacturing to minimize later expansion/contraction.
I pressed Pete for a ballpark cost, and he estimated $5-10 per square
foot, depending... I'd assume more for a small (one-boat) order.
Finally, they are looking for a local (Cincinatti) boatbuilder
willing to work with them to test out products and methods.
Sounds to me like there may be some great new products coming out,
and I'm sure people will find creative new uses for them (a high-tech
alternative to copper-plating for antifouling, anyone?).
Curtis
You can also buy it in a selfadhisive peel of tape from woodworking catalogs. Its used for drawer slides but its very thin stuff. Its the same stuff plastic cutting board are made from.
CCG
jeff <boatbuilding@...> wrote:I've been thinking of putting a sheet of UHMW under the bow of the Wyo for beaching on sand and rocks. Maybe 1/4" thick and running the front 6 or 8 feet. My understanding is that this stuff is extremely tough and slick.
Does anyone know if marine growth will adhere to this stuff? If so, what kind of bottom paint would stick to it? Epoxy won't stick to it at all.
I figured on use Silicon Bronze screws that have been counter sunk to hold it on to the bottom. I could use roofing tar, 3M 5200, or some other bedding compound to seal it up.
Jeff
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CCG
jeff <boatbuilding@...> wrote:I've been thinking of putting a sheet of UHMW under the bow of the Wyo for beaching on sand and rocks. Maybe 1/4" thick and running the front 6 or 8 feet. My understanding is that this stuff is extremely tough and slick.
Does anyone know if marine growth will adhere to this stuff? If so, what kind of bottom paint would stick to it? Epoxy won't stick to it at all.
I figured on use Silicon Bronze screws that have been counter sunk to hold it on to the bottom. I could use roofing tar, 3M 5200, or some other bedding compound to seal it up.
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bolger rules!!!
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- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
There seem to be other similar products
like UHMW including something called
"Seaboard" marketed for the boating
and industrial fishing market.
I have been curious about how
the snowboard manufactures use
adhesive backed UHMW to adhere
to the bottoms of their boards.
They seem to get great adhesion,
and it appears a better way to
connect to the boat than using
mechanical fasteners.
Of course, others around here probably
know this already, but another source
of UHMW [and polycarbonate] is the eBay
marketplace where wholesalers sell their
odd lots, mis-cuts, scraps and pieces.
For instance, the eBAy seller
"machinist-materials" [and others] are
constantly selling scrap pieces of
materials like UHMW, stainless steel, etc..
Watch for URL wrap:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=machinist-materials&include=0&since=-
1&sort=3&rows=25
like UHMW including something called
"Seaboard" marketed for the boating
and industrial fishing market.
I have been curious about how
the snowboard manufactures use
adhesive backed UHMW to adhere
to the bottoms of their boards.
They seem to get great adhesion,
and it appears a better way to
connect to the boat than using
mechanical fasteners.
Of course, others around here probably
know this already, but another source
of UHMW [and polycarbonate] is the eBay
marketplace where wholesalers sell their
odd lots, mis-cuts, scraps and pieces.
For instance, the eBAy seller
"machinist-materials" [and others] are
constantly selling scrap pieces of
materials like UHMW, stainless steel, etc..
Watch for URL wrap:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=machinist-materials&include=0&since=-
1&sort=3&rows=25
I use it for:
Plank bowsprit through hole bushing, for pulling the anchor rode up.
Runners on forward sliding hatch.
Bushing for lower rudder attachement
Bushing for upper rudder post.
Bushing for centerboard pivot pin.
Plate to adjust tension (tightness?) of rudder.
Wear strip for halyards.
Wear strip under tiller.
Through hole bushing for mast hoisting line.
Long strip on trailer keel bunk instead of rollers.
Good stuff.
You can get all you want at McMaster Carr, in various shapes and sizes.
Plank bowsprit through hole bushing, for pulling the anchor rode up.
Runners on forward sliding hatch.
Bushing for lower rudder attachement
Bushing for upper rudder post.
Bushing for centerboard pivot pin.
Plate to adjust tension (tightness?) of rudder.
Wear strip for halyards.
Wear strip under tiller.
Through hole bushing for mast hoisting line.
Long strip on trailer keel bunk instead of rollers.
Good stuff.
You can get all you want at McMaster Carr, in various shapes and sizes.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Lenihan" <ellengaest@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 6:24 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: UHMW
> --- In bolger@y..., "John Cupp" <caj@k...> wrote:
> If you happen to use it you must invent 3 original uses to
> > share with our group and put them in the file folder in Bolger 3.
> > It's a piece of cake 3.
> >
>
>
> John,
> Right off the top of my head I can easily see this stuff used,1)
> in and around the anchor well,2)as the sliders for cabin doors
> instead of swing doors(on the larger Bolger boats),3)rabbetted into
> the drop boards of sailboats to slide snuggly down their tracks,4)
> attached to the outside faces of rub rails for really slick contact
> with other boats/lock walls,5)in the master stateroom laid against
> WOOOOPS!! This is a family site!!!! :-)
> So,do I win anything?Huh?Pleeeease............!
>
> Sincerely,
> Peter Lenihan,thinking way too early in the morning for my own
> good,from along the shores of the St.Lawrence.....
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
--- In bolger@y..., "John Cupp" <caj@k...> wrote:
If you happen to use it you must invent 3 original uses to
> share with our group and put them in the file folder in Bolger 3.
> It's a piece of cake 3.
>
John,
Right off the top of my head I can easily see this stuff used,1)
in and around the anchor well,2)as the sliders for cabin doors
instead of swing doors(on the larger Bolger boats),3)rabbetted into
the drop boards of sailboats to slide snuggly down their tracks,4)
attached to the outside faces of rub rails for really slick contact
with other boats/lock walls,5)in the master stateroom laid against
WOOOOPS!! This is a family site!!!! :-)
So,do I win anything?Huh?Pleeeease............!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,thinking way too early in the morning for my own
good,from along the shores of the St.Lawrence.....
Jeff, I would place some down the sides and up higher on the bow.
From my use of it sure looks better after hard contact as opposed to
only fiberglass covered wood with the fuzzy splinters. It comes in
different colors and some is UV resistance. I like the brown myself
and it all comes in varying thickness. I purchased my stock from a
local supplier called Munnell & Sherill. From what I understand they
have a chain of many outlets across the nation and they also have
fair pricing. Shop and don't buy the first place that carries the
stuff. Try it you'll like it and don't think it only protects hulls.
You can use it for any type of wear resistance, rub blocks for lines.
You can use the stuff number of ways it can even be used for rigging
blocks. If you happen to use it you must invent 3 original uses to
share with our group and put them in the file folder in Bolger 3.
It's a piece of cake 3.
From my use of it sure looks better after hard contact as opposed to
only fiberglass covered wood with the fuzzy splinters. It comes in
different colors and some is UV resistance. I like the brown myself
and it all comes in varying thickness. I purchased my stock from a
local supplier called Munnell & Sherill. From what I understand they
have a chain of many outlets across the nation and they also have
fair pricing. Shop and don't buy the first place that carries the
stuff. Try it you'll like it and don't think it only protects hulls.
You can use it for any type of wear resistance, rub blocks for lines.
You can use the stuff number of ways it can even be used for rigging
blocks. If you happen to use it you must invent 3 original uses to
share with our group and put them in the file folder in Bolger 3.
It's a piece of cake 3.
--- In bolger@y..., "jeff" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> I wonder if this the same stuff the Polyethylene cutting boards are
made
> from since they are so tuff. You can cut them but it's not easy.
>
> I can't imagine marine life sticking to hard to the stuff. It
probably
> wouldn't take but a quick brush off every month or so to get it
clean. I'll
> have to that with the copper poxy bottom coat anyway.
>
> Jeff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Spelling" <richard@c...>
> To: <bolger@y...>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 2:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: UHMW
>
>
> >http://www.interstateplastics.com/meta/fmuhmw.htm
> >http://gregboats.com/pages/uhmw.html
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "soussouchew" <vachew@v...>
> > To: <bolger@y...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:21 PM
> > Subject: [bolger] Re: UHMW
> >
> >
> > > I know nothing about UHMW plastic. Maybe it has been
> > > answered and I missed it, but are the yellow squeegees we use
> > > for spreading epoxy made of this stuff?
> > >
> > > Vince Chew
> > >
> > >
> > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead
horses
> > > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks,
Fred' posts
> > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and
<snip> away
> > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA,
> > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> > > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@y...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
posts
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and
<snip> away
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
--- In bolger@y..., "Peter Lenihan" <ellengaest@b...> wrote:
just see him whooshing across the frozen lake in winter creating
instant sobriety amongst the ice-fishing shacks, Nels
> Hi Jeff,Or at least put runners on it so you could go snow sliding eh? I can
> Why only"6 to 8 feet" when you could do the whole bottom and
> shoot rapids with impunity! :-)
just see him whooshing across the frozen lake in winter creating
instant sobriety amongst the ice-fishing shacks, Nels
I wonder if this the same stuff the Polyethylene cutting boards are made
from since they are so tuff. You can cut them but it's not easy.
I can't imagine marine life sticking to hard to the stuff. It probably
wouldn't take but a quick brush off every month or so to get it clean. I'll
have to that with the copper poxy bottom coat anyway.
Jeff
from since they are so tuff. You can cut them but it's not easy.
I can't imagine marine life sticking to hard to the stuff. It probably
wouldn't take but a quick brush off every month or so to get it clean. I'll
have to that with the copper poxy bottom coat anyway.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Spelling" <richard@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: UHMW
>http://www.interstateplastics.com/meta/fmuhmw.htm
>http://gregboats.com/pages/uhmw.html
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "soussouchew" <vachew@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:21 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: UHMW
>
>
> > I know nothing about UHMW plastic. Maybe it has been
> > answered and I missed it, but are the yellow squeegees we use
> > for spreading epoxy made of this stuff?
> >
> > Vince Chew
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
http://www.interstateplastics.com/meta/fmuhmw.htm
http://gregboats.com/pages/uhmw.html
http://gregboats.com/pages/uhmw.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "soussouchew" <vachew@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:21 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: UHMW
> I know nothing about UHMW plastic. Maybe it has been
> answered and I missed it, but are the yellow squeegees we use
> for spreading epoxy made of this stuff?
>
> Vince Chew
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
I know nothing about UHMW plastic. Maybe it has been
answered and I missed it, but are the yellow squeegees we use
for spreading epoxy made of this stuff?
Vince Chew
answered and I missed it, but are the yellow squeegees we use
for spreading epoxy made of this stuff?
Vince Chew
We used to just wax our FG trailer boat before cruising
in salt water. Can't let it dry -- scrub the boat as
soon as it comes out of the water -- but it wasn't
difficult.
Larry
Quoting Paul Lefebvre <paul@...>:
in salt water. Can't let it dry -- scrub the boat as
soon as it comes out of the water -- but it wasn't
difficult.
Larry
Quoting Paul Lefebvre <paul@...>:
> So, what is the best bottom coating for a boat
> that will live on a trailer?
> Just plain old marine paint, or is there
> something that can stand the rigors
> of sliding on and off the trailer frequently,
> but also will protect against
> grunge for a few more prolonged immersions of,
> say, 2+ weeks?
So, what is the best bottom coating for a boat that will live on a trailer?
Just plain old marine paint, or is there something that can stand the rigors
of sliding on and off the trailer frequently, but also will protect against
grunge for a few more prolonged immersions of, say, 2+ weeks?
Paul Lefebvre
Just plain old marine paint, or is there something that can stand the rigors
of sliding on and off the trailer frequently, but also will protect against
grunge for a few more prolonged immersions of, say, 2+ weeks?
Paul Lefebvre
> -----Original Message-----have
> From: jeff [mailto:boatbuilding@...]
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: UHMW
> If salt water marine life will attach and grow on the UHMW then I would
> to paint it which could be an issue since I would doubt there is a bottom
> paint out there that would stick very well to UHMW.
>
> Maybe the UHMW should be use on trailer boats only.
>
> Jeff
>
I'll donate a sample piece if someone has access to a place to stick it in
the water and leave it.
the water and leave it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "jeff" <boatbuilding@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: UHMW
> If salt water marine life will attach and grow on the UHMW then I would
have
> to paint it which could be an issue since I would doubt there is a bottom
> paint out there that would stick very well to UHMW.
>
> Maybe the UHMW should be use on trailer boats only.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Yes, I concur with David with the need for poisonous stuff in salt
water. However, I have learned that sanding and scraping that stuff
on an annual basis is a real drag. I have gone to using Kirby's
ablative formula. It worked great last season with no slime,
barnicles, or other growth on "Firefly" and since it sloughs off
slowly, I only need a light sanding to get the surface ready for next
season. The stuff smells like the old grunvala that I coated my
cross country skis with before applying any wax; it must have pine
tar in it!
David Jost
water. However, I have learned that sanding and scraping that stuff
on an annual basis is a real drag. I have gone to using Kirby's
ablative formula. It worked great last season with no slime,
barnicles, or other growth on "Firefly" and since it sloughs off
slowly, I only need a light sanding to get the surface ready for next
season. The stuff smells like the old grunvala that I coated my
cross country skis with before applying any wax; it must have pine
tar in it!
David Jost
>
> Not true where I moor my boat. Not true at all. I got the most
> poisonous paint I could find and I'm much, much happier!
>
> -D
> --
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> Mobile (646) 325-8325
> Office (212) 247-0296
If salt water marine life will attach and grow on the UHMW then I would have
to paint it which could be an issue since I would doubt there is a bottom
paint out there that would stick very well to UHMW.
Maybe the UHMW should be use on trailer boats only.
Jeff
to paint it which could be an issue since I would doubt there is a bottom
paint out there that would stick very well to UHMW.
Maybe the UHMW should be use on trailer boats only.
Jeff
Hi David,
Me thinks I was refering to fresh water(where most rapids are to
be found :-) ) and not to the saltier variety as is the norm where
you keep your boat(s).
I'm not sure I can recall where Jeff plans on doing his boating
but rivers do come to mind.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,who nevertheless agrees with Davids' use of good strong
poison for salt water use.......
Me thinks I was refering to fresh water(where most rapids are to
be found :-) ) and not to the saltier variety as is the norm where
you keep your boat(s).
I'm not sure I can recall where Jeff plans on doing his boating
but rivers do come to mind.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,who nevertheless agrees with Davids' use of good strong
poison for salt water use.......
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
>
> Not true where I moor my boat. Not true at all. I got the most
> poisonous paint I could find and I'm much, much happier!
>
> -D
> --
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> Mobile (646) 325-8325
> Office (212) 247-0296
> One final observation,bottom growth has a hard time growing inNot true where I moor my boat. Not true at all. I got the most
>the shade caused by big beautiful flat bottoms....you may only get a
>slim coating of slime near the waterline.No big deal and nothing a
>rag or brush can't easily take care of.
poisonous paint I could find and I'm much, much happier!
-D
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
Hi Jeff,
Why only"6 to 8 feet" when you could do the whole bottom and
shoot rapids with impunity! :-)
I like your idea and since it would seem from past posting that
virtually"nothing" really sticks to this stuff,I wouldn't be too
concerned about bottom growth or anti-fouling paint.Besides,each time
you nose her up to a beach,the paint and whatever growth happens will
be convieniently(sp) scrubbed off!
My only real concern would be ensuring that the fastners used
to hold the sheet securely to the hull bottom are very well bedded
where they pass through the bottom.3ms' 5200 sounds like just the
stuff to squirt up into the fastner holes before screwing/bolting the
UHMV sheet on.
This may appear obvious to you,but just in case,don't forget to
completely finish/seal/prime/paint/anti-foul the bottom where you
plan to install the UHMV,BEFORE you install it.
One final observation,bottom growth has a hard time growing in
the shade caused by big beautiful flat bottoms....you may only get a
slim coating of slime near the waterline.No big deal and nothing a
rag or brush can't easily take care of.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,wishing you continued success with your WYO,from along
the shores of the mighty St.Lawrence...........
Why only"6 to 8 feet" when you could do the whole bottom and
shoot rapids with impunity! :-)
I like your idea and since it would seem from past posting that
virtually"nothing" really sticks to this stuff,I wouldn't be too
concerned about bottom growth or anti-fouling paint.Besides,each time
you nose her up to a beach,the paint and whatever growth happens will
be convieniently(sp) scrubbed off!
My only real concern would be ensuring that the fastners used
to hold the sheet securely to the hull bottom are very well bedded
where they pass through the bottom.3ms' 5200 sounds like just the
stuff to squirt up into the fastner holes before screwing/bolting the
UHMV sheet on.
This may appear obvious to you,but just in case,don't forget to
completely finish/seal/prime/paint/anti-foul the bottom where you
plan to install the UHMV,BEFORE you install it.
One final observation,bottom growth has a hard time growing in
the shade caused by big beautiful flat bottoms....you may only get a
slim coating of slime near the waterline.No big deal and nothing a
rag or brush can't easily take care of.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,wishing you continued success with your WYO,from along
the shores of the mighty St.Lawrence...........
--- In bolger@y..., "jeff" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> I've been thinking of putting a sheet of UHMW under the bow of the
Wyo for beaching on sand and rocks.
I've been thinking of putting a sheet of UHMW under the bow of the Wyo for beaching on sand and rocks. Maybe 1/4" thick and running the front 6 or 8 feet. My understanding is that this stuff is extremely tough and slick.
Does anyone know if marine growth will adhere to this stuff? If so, what kind of bottom paint would stick to it? Epoxy won't stick to it at all.
I figured on use Silicon Bronze screws that have been counter sunk to hold it on to the bottom. I could use roofing tar, 3M 5200, or some other bedding compound to seal it up.
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Does anyone know if marine growth will adhere to this stuff? If so, what kind of bottom paint would stick to it? Epoxy won't stick to it at all.
I figured on use Silicon Bronze screws that have been counter sunk to hold it on to the bottom. I could use roofing tar, 3M 5200, or some other bedding compound to seal it up.
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks Stephen,
Yes, I used butt strap joints. In retrospect I still think scarfs
are superior, but these worked pretty well. They were easier mostly
because the plans aren't layed out for scarfs. I used one strip of
4-inch tape on each side. I believe it was 9-ounce. Then I
sheathed the exterior in 6-oz cloth, giving 2 layers outside. I
used West System epoxy.
I had a stall in my construction too, and then I decided to make
sure I at least walked out to my shop every day. Sometimes I'd just
look at the plans or double-check a measurement. Other times I'd
spend an hour or two. I think I averaged about 20 minutes/day on
this boat and I've learned that you really can eat an elephant one
bite at a time. It's a great little boat; you'll be glad you've
done it.
Good luck,
Kellan
Yes, I used butt strap joints. In retrospect I still think scarfs
are superior, but these worked pretty well. They were easier mostly
because the plans aren't layed out for scarfs. I used one strip of
4-inch tape on each side. I believe it was 9-ounce. Then I
sheathed the exterior in 6-oz cloth, giving 2 layers outside. I
used West System epoxy.
I had a stall in my construction too, and then I decided to make
sure I at least walked out to my shop every day. Sometimes I'd just
look at the plans or double-check a measurement. Other times I'd
spend an hour or two. I think I averaged about 20 minutes/day on
this boat and I've learned that you really can eat an elephant one
bite at a time. It's a great little boat; you'll be glad you've
done it.
Good luck,
Kellan
--- In bolger@y..., "smshatz" <steveshatz@h...> wrote:
> Hi Kellan,
>
> You built a beuatiful boat. It looks like you didn't use butt
straps
> to join you plywood panels, is this correct? I went back and read
> some of your previous posts, and read on how you put them
together.
> How many layers, and what width tape did you use? They were butt
> joints, not scarfed? What brand of epoxy did you use?
>
> I wish I had enough time and initiative to get my cartopper
together
> as fast as you did. I'm still in a holding pattern waiting for my
> previous project to be completed. Too many projects, not enough
> time. I hope to have my cartopper in the water this spring. My
next
> couple of projects need to be boats.
>
> Post some more pictures when you get the sailing rig up. There's
> nothing more beutiful than a boat under sail.
>
> Thanks, and happy sailing.
>
> Stephen
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "dagon_gsl" <dagon_gsl@y...> wrote:
> >
> > For anyone interested, I just uploaded some photos of my
Cartopper
> > into Bolger2 photos.
> >
> > The sail rig isn't quite ready, so I'm rowing only. There's also
a
> > picture of a very handy little 2-wheel trolley that I built for
> > single-handed ground transportation. Also, the interior isn't
> > finished, so I roughed in a temporary rowing thwart and plunked
a
> > small camp chair in the stern (which worked surprisingly well).
> >
> > I'm not sure what the correct protocol is for uploading photos.
I
> > created a folder in the Bolger Boats album called Kellan's
> > Cartopper. If this was not the correct thing to do, will
someone
> > please let me know?
> >
> > Kellan
Hi Kellan,
You built a beuatiful boat. It looks like you didn't use butt straps
to join you plywood panels, is this correct? I went back and read
some of your previous posts, and read on how you put them together.
How many layers, and what width tape did you use? They were butt
joints, not scarfed? What brand of epoxy did you use?
I wish I had enough time and initiative to get my cartopper together
as fast as you did. I'm still in a holding pattern waiting for my
previous project to be completed. Too many projects, not enough
time. I hope to have my cartopper in the water this spring. My next
couple of projects need to be boats.
Post some more pictures when you get the sailing rig up. There's
nothing more beutiful than a boat under sail.
Thanks, and happy sailing.
Stephen
You built a beuatiful boat. It looks like you didn't use butt straps
to join you plywood panels, is this correct? I went back and read
some of your previous posts, and read on how you put them together.
How many layers, and what width tape did you use? They were butt
joints, not scarfed? What brand of epoxy did you use?
I wish I had enough time and initiative to get my cartopper together
as fast as you did. I'm still in a holding pattern waiting for my
previous project to be completed. Too many projects, not enough
time. I hope to have my cartopper in the water this spring. My next
couple of projects need to be boats.
Post some more pictures when you get the sailing rig up. There's
nothing more beutiful than a boat under sail.
Thanks, and happy sailing.
Stephen
--- In bolger@y..., "dagon_gsl" <dagon_gsl@y...> wrote:
>
> For anyone interested, I just uploaded some photos of my Cartopper
> into Bolger2 photos.
>
> The sail rig isn't quite ready, so I'm rowing only. There's also a
> picture of a very handy little 2-wheel trolley that I built for
> single-handed ground transportation. Also, the interior isn't
> finished, so I roughed in a temporary rowing thwart and plunked a
> small camp chair in the stern (which worked surprisingly well).
>
> I'm not sure what the correct protocol is for uploading photos. I
> created a folder in the Bolger Boats album called Kellan's
> Cartopper. If this was not the correct thing to do, will someone
> please let me know?
>
> Kellan
I know it is also used for bearings in large telescopes. You can imagine how slippery it is when it runs against another piece. You didnt mention , price is it expensive?
CCG
John Cupp wrote:I have contacted the C S Hyde Company who also produce UHMW and they
sent me four test pieces of their latest adhesive backed and
laminatible UHMW. It is funny that in Good Old Boats,
September/October issue they have an piece about making rubbing
strakes from UHMW on all parts of your boat where lines and sheets
may cause damage to the finish of your boat without harming lines or
sheets. For that matter it could be used on wire stays for the same
purposes.
One of our members gave out the companies web site, www.cshyde.com
and I called them and used my consulting companies name to order
samples. I have been injured and unable to work for almost 2 years
but the name helps me get products for testing. I received UHMW stock
in .030 with adhesive backing, .040 with adhesive backing, 1/16th
without adhesive for epoxy attachment and 1/8th with adhesive
backing. From the abrasion tests I made with the .030 adhesive backed
material I would not recommend it be used on any boat over a 500 lbs
gross weight. I ran it through my dishwasher and it never became
loose from the wood I mounted it on.
My recommendation from using the non glueable type of UHMW would be
to glue the 1/8th" material to the bottoms of boats that are most
likely to contact underwater hazards and I would glue up the side
from the bow to about mid point with a 12" strip for those low
floating hazards with 1/16th" UHMW or the whole length if backing up
around docks or pilings is a problem.
I have used this material in my wooden driftboats in 3/8th" with
countersunk holes and it made the boat virtually indestructible from
whitewater rock hazards, I have never found a solution for my oars
though. I always carried a spare set.
After my impending surgery I might have to start a business coating
boat bottoms with this stuff. They make it in rolls of just about any
width so placed stem to stern in length, gluing it would also
increase hull integrity. I can even see a reduction in plywood and
adding UHMW all over the hull. No painting ever again and except for
tankers or exorcet missiles it could replace paint on any surface
including Steel, Ferrocement, Fiberglass, Aluminum or Wood. I
personally hate being lowered over the side of a large boat or ship
to repaint tug boat scratches. And I have never encountered a problem
with thermal expansion with UHMW.
When I designed a launch ramp for a 100' Algae barge I used steel
beams with UHMW coating plates and when the 966 loader gave it a
gentle nudge it shot down that UHMW ramp as if it were on wheels.
Before that I had always used small tracks with cart pads on wheels
to launch big heavy barges. This Algae barge had a 30 ton vacuum
dryer like they use in silver and gold mines sitting on the deck with
lots of other heavy objects.
It is a super material with thousands of uses that are still unknown
like runners for a cabin cover or a plate around you anchor landing
to prevent dings. A coating in that miserable place known as a chain
locker and it is even seagull poop proof. Here is a link to the C S
Hyde Companies Catalogue pages on UHMW. Or call them at 1-800-441-
8063.
http://www.cshyde.com/_vti_bin/shtml.exe/catalog.htm
John
CCG
John Cupp wrote:I have contacted the C S Hyde Company who also produce UHMW and they
sent me four test pieces of their latest adhesive backed and
laminatible UHMW. It is funny that in Good Old Boats,
September/October issue they have an piece about making rubbing
strakes from UHMW on all parts of your boat where lines and sheets
may cause damage to the finish of your boat without harming lines or
sheets. For that matter it could be used on wire stays for the same
purposes.
One of our members gave out the companies web site, www.cshyde.com
and I called them and used my consulting companies name to order
samples. I have been injured and unable to work for almost 2 years
but the name helps me get products for testing. I received UHMW stock
in .030 with adhesive backing, .040 with adhesive backing, 1/16th
without adhesive for epoxy attachment and 1/8th with adhesive
backing. From the abrasion tests I made with the .030 adhesive backed
material I would not recommend it be used on any boat over a 500 lbs
gross weight. I ran it through my dishwasher and it never became
loose from the wood I mounted it on.
My recommendation from using the non glueable type of UHMW would be
to glue the 1/8th" material to the bottoms of boats that are most
likely to contact underwater hazards and I would glue up the side
from the bow to about mid point with a 12" strip for those low
floating hazards with 1/16th" UHMW or the whole length if backing up
around docks or pilings is a problem.
I have used this material in my wooden driftboats in 3/8th" with
countersunk holes and it made the boat virtually indestructible from
whitewater rock hazards, I have never found a solution for my oars
though. I always carried a spare set.
After my impending surgery I might have to start a business coating
boat bottoms with this stuff. They make it in rolls of just about any
width so placed stem to stern in length, gluing it would also
increase hull integrity. I can even see a reduction in plywood and
adding UHMW all over the hull. No painting ever again and except for
tankers or exorcet missiles it could replace paint on any surface
including Steel, Ferrocement, Fiberglass, Aluminum or Wood. I
personally hate being lowered over the side of a large boat or ship
to repaint tug boat scratches. And I have never encountered a problem
with thermal expansion with UHMW.
When I designed a launch ramp for a 100' Algae barge I used steel
beams with UHMW coating plates and when the 966 loader gave it a
gentle nudge it shot down that UHMW ramp as if it were on wheels.
Before that I had always used small tracks with cart pads on wheels
to launch big heavy barges. This Algae barge had a 30 ton vacuum
dryer like they use in silver and gold mines sitting on the deck with
lots of other heavy objects.
It is a super material with thousands of uses that are still unknown
like runners for a cabin cover or a plate around you anchor landing
to prevent dings. A coating in that miserable place known as a chain
locker and it is even seagull poop proof. Here is a link to the C S
Hyde Companies Catalogue pages on UHMW. Or call them at 1-800-441-
8063.
http://www.cshyde.com/_vti_bin/shtml.exe/catalog.htm
John
--- In bolger@y..., "sals_dad" <sals_dad@b...> wrote:
> There's been some discussion of UHMW plastics for bottom
> runners/sheathing for small boats; I just spoke with Pete, a
product
> guy at Crown Plastics:http://www.crownplastics.com/513-367-
0238.
>
> They have noticed that boatbuilding may be a pretty good market for
> UHMW, and want to understand it better; they've had a lot of
interest
> from manufacturers of drift boats, air boats, etc.
>
> In the past, you had to use at least 1/4" thick sheets, to allow
for
> countersinking the screws. Since this isn't great in boats - too
> much weight, and lots of screw holes - they've developed two UHMW
> product lines that fit the bill - a pressure sensitive adhesive
> backed sheet, and a "treated for bonding" sheet. They think 3/32
> (.093") may be the best thickness for sheathing the bottom of a
boat,
> in 12 or 18" widths.
>
> Pressure-Sensitive-Adhesive: Crown applies a 20 mil foam acrylic
> adhesive (mfd by Avery Denison) to one side of the sheet. You peel
> off the backer sheet (a little at a time) and use a firm roller to
> apply about 2' at a time, applying pressure, and rolling out air
> bubbles. This adhesive is supposed to be pretty good in a marine
> environment, but can be removed (with some difficulty) at a later
> date.
>
> Treated-for-Bonding: One surface is roughed up (my
> oversimplification) to allow a mechanical bond with epoxy or other
> glues. This sounds ideal for boatbuilding, but Pete warns that
> it's "permanent" - no removing it later, for any reason. At first,
> this sounds good, but what if it does wear out, or you need to make
> repairs on the underlying plywood... This system is used in
> snowboards, where you just discard the whole assembly...
>
> In either case, thermal expansion can be an issue (a real problem
> with thick sheets and screw fastenings); they recommend leaving an
> expansion gap (1/16") between pieces, and have processes in
> manufacturing to minimize later expansion/contraction.
>
> I pressed Pete for a ballpark cost, and he estimated $5-10 per
square
> foot, depending... I'd assume more for a small (one-boat) order.
>
> Finally, they are looking for a local (Cincinatti) boatbuilder
> willing to work with them to test out products and methods.
>
> Sounds to me like there may be some great new products coming out,
> and I'm sure people will find creative new uses for them (a high-
tech
> alternative to copper-plating for antifouling, anyone?).
>
> Curtis
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jules, the glue able UHMW has a mechanical finish on one side that
allows permanent bonding as Curtis pointed out in the post before
mine. I am not sure but they may also use another type of material
amalgamated to it that allows bonding but there is no discoloration
to prove that. I think of all the holes I countersunk in the UHMW and
all the countersink bits I wore out and I am very happy for the break
through!
It must be ordered special for gluing. A perfect paring IMHO.
John
allows permanent bonding as Curtis pointed out in the post before
mine. I am not sure but they may also use another type of material
amalgamated to it that allows bonding but there is no discoloration
to prove that. I think of all the holes I countersunk in the UHMW and
all the countersink bits I wore out and I am very happy for the break
through!
It must be ordered special for gluing. A perfect paring IMHO.
John
--- In bolger@y..., "lulalake_1999" <lulalake_1999@y...> wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> Thanks for your thoughts on UHMW. Do I understand you about using
> epoxy with UHMW? Is it guleable with epoxy and if so what special
> prep does UHMW require to get the epoxy to stick?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jules
>
Hi John,
Thanks for your thoughts on UHMW. Do I understand you about using
epoxy with UHMW? Is it guleable with epoxy and if so what special
prep does UHMW require to get the epoxy to stick?
Thanks
Jules
Thanks for your thoughts on UHMW. Do I understand you about using
epoxy with UHMW? Is it guleable with epoxy and if so what special
prep does UHMW require to get the epoxy to stick?
Thanks
Jules
--- In bolger@y..., "John Cupp" <caj@k...> wrote:
> I have contacted the C S Hyde Company who also produce UHMW and
they
> sent me four test pieces of their latest adhesive backed and
> laminatible UHMW. It is funny that in Good Old Boats,
> September/October issue they have an piece about making rubbing
> strakes from UHMW on all parts of your boat where lines and sheets
> may cause damage to the finish of your boat without harming lines
or
> sheets. For that matter it could be used on wire stays for the
same
> purposes.
>
> One of our members gave out the companies web site,
www.cshyde.com
> and I called them and used my consulting companies name to order
> samples. I have been injured and unable to work for almost 2 years
> but the name helps me get products for testing. I received UHMW
stock
> in .030 with adhesive backing, .040 with adhesive backing, 1/16th
> without adhesive for epoxy attachment and 1/8th with adhesive
> backing. From the abrasion tests I made with the .030 adhesive
backed
> material I would not recommend it be used on any boat over a 500
lbs
> gross weight. I ran it through my dishwasher and it never became
> loose from the wood I mounted it on.
>
> My recommendation from using the non glueable type of UHMW would
be
> to glue the 1/8th" material to the bottoms of boats that are most
> likely to contact underwater hazards and I would glue up the side
> from the bow to about mid point with a 12" strip for those low
> floating hazards with 1/16th" UHMW or the whole length if backing
up
> around docks or pilings is a problem.
>
> I have used this material in my wooden driftboats in 3/8th" with
> countersunk holes and it made the boat virtually indestructible
from
> whitewater rock hazards, I have never found a solution for my oars
> though. I always carried a spare set.
>
> After my impending surgery I might have to start a business
coating
> boat bottoms with this stuff. They make it in rolls of just about
any
> width so placed stem to stern in length, gluing it would also
> increase hull integrity. I can even see a reduction in plywood and
> adding UHMW all over the hull. No painting ever again and except
for
> tankers or exorcet missiles it could replace paint on any surface
> including Steel, Ferrocement, Fiberglass, Aluminum or Wood. I
> personally hate being lowered over the side of a large boat or
ship
> to repaint tug boat scratches. And I have never encountered a
problem
> with thermal expansion with UHMW.
>
> When I designed a launch ramp for a 100' Algae barge I used steel
> beams with UHMW coating plates and when the 966 loader gave it a
> gentle nudge it shot down that UHMW ramp as if it were on wheels.
> Before that I had always used small tracks with cart pads on
wheels
> to launch big heavy barges. This Algae barge had a 30 ton vacuum
> dryer like they use in silver and gold mines sitting on the deck
with
> lots of other heavy objects.
>
> It is a super material with thousands of uses that are still
unknown
> like runners for a cabin cover or a plate around you anchor
landing
> to prevent dings. A coating in that miserable place known as a
chain
> locker and it is even seagull poop proof. Here is a link to the C
S
> Hyde Companies Catalogue pages on UHMW. Or call them at 1-800-441-
> 8063.
>
>http://www.cshyde.com/_vti_bin/shtml.exe/catalog.htm
>
> John
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "sals_dad" <sals_dad@b...> wrote:
> > There's been some discussion of UHMW plastics for bottom
> > runners/sheathing for small boats; I just spoke with Pete, a
> product
> > guy at Crown Plastics:http://www.crownplastics.com/513-367-
> 0238.
> >
> > They have noticed that boatbuilding may be a pretty good market
for
> > UHMW, and want to understand it better; they've had a lot of
> interest
> > from manufacturers of drift boats, air boats, etc.
> >
> > In the past, you had to use at least 1/4" thick sheets, to allow
> for
> > countersinking the screws. Since this isn't great in boats -
too
> > much weight, and lots of screw holes - they've developed two
UHMW
> > product lines that fit the bill - a pressure sensitive adhesive
> > backed sheet, and a "treated for bonding" sheet. They think 3/32
> > (.093") may be the best thickness for sheathing the bottom of a
> boat,
> > in 12 or 18" widths.
> >
> > Pressure-Sensitive-Adhesive: Crown applies a 20 mil foam acrylic
> > adhesive (mfd by Avery Denison) to one side of the sheet. You
peel
> > off the backer sheet (a little at a time) and use a firm roller
to
> > apply about 2' at a time, applying pressure, and rolling out air
> > bubbles. This adhesive is supposed to be pretty good in a
marine
> > environment, but can be removed (with some difficulty) at a
later
> > date.
> >
> > Treated-for-Bonding: One surface is roughed up (my
> > oversimplification) to allow a mechanical bond with epoxy or
other
> > glues. This sounds ideal for boatbuilding, but Pete warns that
> > it's "permanent" - no removing it later, for any reason. At
first,
> > this sounds good, but what if it does wear out, or you need to
make
> > repairs on the underlying plywood... This system is used in
> > snowboards, where you just discard the whole assembly...
> >
> > In either case, thermal expansion can be an issue (a real
problem
> > with thick sheets and screw fastenings); they recommend leaving
an
> > expansion gap (1/16") between pieces, and have processes in
> > manufacturing to minimize later expansion/contraction.
> >
> > I pressed Pete for a ballpark cost, and he estimated $5-10 per
> square
> > foot, depending... I'd assume more for a small (one-boat) order.
> >
> > Finally, they are looking for a local (Cincinatti) boatbuilder
> > willing to work with them to test out products and methods.
> >
> > Sounds to me like there may be some great new products coming
out,
> > and I'm sure people will find creative new uses for them (a high-
> tech
> > alternative to copper-plating for antifouling, anyone?).
> >
> > Curtis
I have contacted the C S Hyde Company who also produce UHMW and they
sent me four test pieces of their latest adhesive backed and
laminatible UHMW. It is funny that in Good Old Boats,
September/October issue they have an piece about making rubbing
strakes from UHMW on all parts of your boat where lines and sheets
may cause damage to the finish of your boat without harming lines or
sheets. For that matter it could be used on wire stays for the same
purposes.
One of our members gave out the companies web site, www.cshyde.com
and I called them and used my consulting companies name to order
samples. I have been injured and unable to work for almost 2 years
but the name helps me get products for testing. I received UHMW stock
in .030 with adhesive backing, .040 with adhesive backing, 1/16th
without adhesive for epoxy attachment and 1/8th with adhesive
backing. From the abrasion tests I made with the .030 adhesive backed
material I would not recommend it be used on any boat over a 500 lbs
gross weight. I ran it through my dishwasher and it never became
loose from the wood I mounted it on.
My recommendation from using the non glueable type of UHMW would be
to glue the 1/8th" material to the bottoms of boats that are most
likely to contact underwater hazards and I would glue up the side
from the bow to about mid point with a 12" strip for those low
floating hazards with 1/16th" UHMW or the whole length if backing up
around docks or pilings is a problem.
I have used this material in my wooden driftboats in 3/8th" with
countersunk holes and it made the boat virtually indestructible from
whitewater rock hazards, I have never found a solution for my oars
though. I always carried a spare set.
After my impending surgery I might have to start a business coating
boat bottoms with this stuff. They make it in rolls of just about any
width so placed stem to stern in length, gluing it would also
increase hull integrity. I can even see a reduction in plywood and
adding UHMW all over the hull. No painting ever again and except for
tankers or exorcet missiles it could replace paint on any surface
including Steel, Ferrocement, Fiberglass, Aluminum or Wood. I
personally hate being lowered over the side of a large boat or ship
to repaint tug boat scratches. And I have never encountered a problem
with thermal expansion with UHMW.
When I designed a launch ramp for a 100' Algae barge I used steel
beams with UHMW coating plates and when the 966 loader gave it a
gentle nudge it shot down that UHMW ramp as if it were on wheels.
Before that I had always used small tracks with cart pads on wheels
to launch big heavy barges. This Algae barge had a 30 ton vacuum
dryer like they use in silver and gold mines sitting on the deck with
lots of other heavy objects.
It is a super material with thousands of uses that are still unknown
like runners for a cabin cover or a plate around you anchor landing
to prevent dings. A coating in that miserable place known as a chain
locker and it is even seagull poop proof. Here is a link to the C S
Hyde Companies Catalogue pages on UHMW. Or call them at 1-800-441-
8063.
http://www.cshyde.com/_vti_bin/shtml.exe/catalog.htm
John
sent me four test pieces of their latest adhesive backed and
laminatible UHMW. It is funny that in Good Old Boats,
September/October issue they have an piece about making rubbing
strakes from UHMW on all parts of your boat where lines and sheets
may cause damage to the finish of your boat without harming lines or
sheets. For that matter it could be used on wire stays for the same
purposes.
One of our members gave out the companies web site, www.cshyde.com
and I called them and used my consulting companies name to order
samples. I have been injured and unable to work for almost 2 years
but the name helps me get products for testing. I received UHMW stock
in .030 with adhesive backing, .040 with adhesive backing, 1/16th
without adhesive for epoxy attachment and 1/8th with adhesive
backing. From the abrasion tests I made with the .030 adhesive backed
material I would not recommend it be used on any boat over a 500 lbs
gross weight. I ran it through my dishwasher and it never became
loose from the wood I mounted it on.
My recommendation from using the non glueable type of UHMW would be
to glue the 1/8th" material to the bottoms of boats that are most
likely to contact underwater hazards and I would glue up the side
from the bow to about mid point with a 12" strip for those low
floating hazards with 1/16th" UHMW or the whole length if backing up
around docks or pilings is a problem.
I have used this material in my wooden driftboats in 3/8th" with
countersunk holes and it made the boat virtually indestructible from
whitewater rock hazards, I have never found a solution for my oars
though. I always carried a spare set.
After my impending surgery I might have to start a business coating
boat bottoms with this stuff. They make it in rolls of just about any
width so placed stem to stern in length, gluing it would also
increase hull integrity. I can even see a reduction in plywood and
adding UHMW all over the hull. No painting ever again and except for
tankers or exorcet missiles it could replace paint on any surface
including Steel, Ferrocement, Fiberglass, Aluminum or Wood. I
personally hate being lowered over the side of a large boat or ship
to repaint tug boat scratches. And I have never encountered a problem
with thermal expansion with UHMW.
When I designed a launch ramp for a 100' Algae barge I used steel
beams with UHMW coating plates and when the 966 loader gave it a
gentle nudge it shot down that UHMW ramp as if it were on wheels.
Before that I had always used small tracks with cart pads on wheels
to launch big heavy barges. This Algae barge had a 30 ton vacuum
dryer like they use in silver and gold mines sitting on the deck with
lots of other heavy objects.
It is a super material with thousands of uses that are still unknown
like runners for a cabin cover or a plate around you anchor landing
to prevent dings. A coating in that miserable place known as a chain
locker and it is even seagull poop proof. Here is a link to the C S
Hyde Companies Catalogue pages on UHMW. Or call them at 1-800-441-
8063.
http://www.cshyde.com/_vti_bin/shtml.exe/catalog.htm
John
--- In bolger@y..., "sals_dad" <sals_dad@b...> wrote:
> There's been some discussion of UHMW plastics for bottom
> runners/sheathing for small boats; I just spoke with Pete, a
product
> guy at Crown Plastics:http://www.crownplastics.com/513-367-
0238.
>
> They have noticed that boatbuilding may be a pretty good market for
> UHMW, and want to understand it better; they've had a lot of
interest
> from manufacturers of drift boats, air boats, etc.
>
> In the past, you had to use at least 1/4" thick sheets, to allow
for
> countersinking the screws. Since this isn't great in boats - too
> much weight, and lots of screw holes - they've developed two UHMW
> product lines that fit the bill - a pressure sensitive adhesive
> backed sheet, and a "treated for bonding" sheet. They think 3/32
> (.093") may be the best thickness for sheathing the bottom of a
boat,
> in 12 or 18" widths.
>
> Pressure-Sensitive-Adhesive: Crown applies a 20 mil foam acrylic
> adhesive (mfd by Avery Denison) to one side of the sheet. You peel
> off the backer sheet (a little at a time) and use a firm roller to
> apply about 2' at a time, applying pressure, and rolling out air
> bubbles. This adhesive is supposed to be pretty good in a marine
> environment, but can be removed (with some difficulty) at a later
> date.
>
> Treated-for-Bonding: One surface is roughed up (my
> oversimplification) to allow a mechanical bond with epoxy or other
> glues. This sounds ideal for boatbuilding, but Pete warns that
> it's "permanent" - no removing it later, for any reason. At first,
> this sounds good, but what if it does wear out, or you need to make
> repairs on the underlying plywood... This system is used in
> snowboards, where you just discard the whole assembly...
>
> In either case, thermal expansion can be an issue (a real problem
> with thick sheets and screw fastenings); they recommend leaving an
> expansion gap (1/16") between pieces, and have processes in
> manufacturing to minimize later expansion/contraction.
>
> I pressed Pete for a ballpark cost, and he estimated $5-10 per
square
> foot, depending... I'd assume more for a small (one-boat) order.
>
> Finally, they are looking for a local (Cincinatti) boatbuilder
> willing to work with them to test out products and methods.
>
> Sounds to me like there may be some great new products coming out,
> and I'm sure people will find creative new uses for them (a high-
tech
> alternative to copper-plating for antifouling, anyone?).
>
> Curtis
For anyone interested, I just uploaded some photos of my Cartopper
into Bolger2 photos.
The sail rig isn't quite ready, so I'm rowing only. There's also a
picture of a very handy little 2-wheel trolley that I built for
single-handed ground transportation. Also, the interior isn't
finished, so I roughed in a temporary rowing thwart and plunked a
small camp chair in the stern (which worked surprisingly well).
I'm not sure what the correct protocol is for uploading photos. I
created a folder in the Bolger Boats album called Kellan's
Cartopper. If this was not the correct thing to do, will someone
please let me know?
Kellan
into Bolger2 photos.
The sail rig isn't quite ready, so I'm rowing only. There's also a
picture of a very handy little 2-wheel trolley that I built for
single-handed ground transportation. Also, the interior isn't
finished, so I roughed in a temporary rowing thwart and plunked a
small camp chair in the stern (which worked surprisingly well).
I'm not sure what the correct protocol is for uploading photos. I
created a folder in the Bolger Boats album called Kellan's
Cartopper. If this was not the correct thing to do, will someone
please let me know?
Kellan
There's been some discussion of UHMW plastics for bottom
runners/sheathing for small boats; I just spoke with Pete, a product
guy at Crown Plastics:http://www.crownplastics.com/513-367-0238.
They have noticed that boatbuilding may be a pretty good market for
UHMW, and want to understand it better; they've had a lot of interest
from manufacturers of drift boats, air boats, etc.
In the past, you had to use at least 1/4" thick sheets, to allow for
countersinking the screws. Since this isn't great in boats - too
much weight, and lots of screw holes - they've developed two UHMW
product lines that fit the bill - a pressure sensitive adhesive
backed sheet, and a "treated for bonding" sheet. They think 3/32
(.093") may be the best thickness for sheathing the bottom of a boat,
in 12 or 18" widths.
Pressure-Sensitive-Adhesive: Crown applies a 20 mil foam acrylic
adhesive (mfd by Avery Denison) to one side of the sheet. You peel
off the backer sheet (a little at a time) and use a firm roller to
apply about 2' at a time, applying pressure, and rolling out air
bubbles. This adhesive is supposed to be pretty good in a marine
environment, but can be removed (with some difficulty) at a later
date.
Treated-for-Bonding: One surface is roughed up (my
oversimplification) to allow a mechanical bond with epoxy or other
glues. This sounds ideal for boatbuilding, but Pete warns that
it's "permanent" - no removing it later, for any reason. At first,
this sounds good, but what if it does wear out, or you need to make
repairs on the underlying plywood... This system is used in
snowboards, where you just discard the whole assembly...
In either case, thermal expansion can be an issue (a real problem
with thick sheets and screw fastenings); they recommend leaving an
expansion gap (1/16") between pieces, and have processes in
manufacturing to minimize later expansion/contraction.
I pressed Pete for a ballpark cost, and he estimated $5-10 per square
foot, depending... I'd assume more for a small (one-boat) order.
Finally, they are looking for a local (Cincinatti) boatbuilder
willing to work with them to test out products and methods.
Sounds to me like there may be some great new products coming out,
and I'm sure people will find creative new uses for them (a high-tech
alternative to copper-plating for antifouling, anyone?).
Curtis
runners/sheathing for small boats; I just spoke with Pete, a product
guy at Crown Plastics:http://www.crownplastics.com/513-367-0238.
They have noticed that boatbuilding may be a pretty good market for
UHMW, and want to understand it better; they've had a lot of interest
from manufacturers of drift boats, air boats, etc.
In the past, you had to use at least 1/4" thick sheets, to allow for
countersinking the screws. Since this isn't great in boats - too
much weight, and lots of screw holes - they've developed two UHMW
product lines that fit the bill - a pressure sensitive adhesive
backed sheet, and a "treated for bonding" sheet. They think 3/32
(.093") may be the best thickness for sheathing the bottom of a boat,
in 12 or 18" widths.
Pressure-Sensitive-Adhesive: Crown applies a 20 mil foam acrylic
adhesive (mfd by Avery Denison) to one side of the sheet. You peel
off the backer sheet (a little at a time) and use a firm roller to
apply about 2' at a time, applying pressure, and rolling out air
bubbles. This adhesive is supposed to be pretty good in a marine
environment, but can be removed (with some difficulty) at a later
date.
Treated-for-Bonding: One surface is roughed up (my
oversimplification) to allow a mechanical bond with epoxy or other
glues. This sounds ideal for boatbuilding, but Pete warns that
it's "permanent" - no removing it later, for any reason. At first,
this sounds good, but what if it does wear out, or you need to make
repairs on the underlying plywood... This system is used in
snowboards, where you just discard the whole assembly...
In either case, thermal expansion can be an issue (a real problem
with thick sheets and screw fastenings); they recommend leaving an
expansion gap (1/16") between pieces, and have processes in
manufacturing to minimize later expansion/contraction.
I pressed Pete for a ballpark cost, and he estimated $5-10 per square
foot, depending... I'd assume more for a small (one-boat) order.
Finally, they are looking for a local (Cincinatti) boatbuilder
willing to work with them to test out products and methods.
Sounds to me like there may be some great new products coming out,
and I'm sure people will find creative new uses for them (a high-tech
alternative to copper-plating for antifouling, anyone?).
Curtis
--- In bolger@y..., shansen@t... wrote:
neutral buoyancy. (UHMW = 0.93 gm/cc, water = 1.00 gm/cc) In the
water, no problem - out of the water, say 40 pounds for a .25 x 48 x
96 inch sheet.
> --- In bolger@y..., "Larry Barker" <lgbarker@i...> wrote:the
> > How much does it weigh? I haven't found any specs on the web
> sites. For a lot of the smaller bolger boats it would seem that
> purpose of UHMW is to protect the relatively light hulls. If thisseen
> stuff weighs a ton it will make the boats harder to haul around and
> there may be some issues with the stresses on a structure that was
> meant for light-weight construction.
>
> The published density of UHMW poly is 0.034 lb/cubic inch or 0.93
> gm/cc. That's something like 12% the density of steel. I haven't
> a recommended thickness for boat use.UHMW has essentially the same density as water, so it have almost
neutral buoyancy. (UHMW = 0.93 gm/cc, water = 1.00 gm/cc) In the
water, no problem - out of the water, say 40 pounds for a .25 x 48 x
96 inch sheet.
--- In bolger@y..., "Larry Barker" <lgbarker@i...> wrote:
purpose of UHMW is to protect the relatively light hulls. If this
stuff weighs a ton it will make the boats harder to haul around and
there may be some issues with the stresses on a structure that was
meant for light-weight construction.
The published density of UHMW poly is 0.034 lb/cubic inch or 0.93
gm/cc. That's something like 12% the density of steel. I haven't seen
a recommended thickness for boat use.
> How much does it weigh? I haven't found any specs on the websites. For a lot of the smaller bolger boats it would seem that the
purpose of UHMW is to protect the relatively light hulls. If this
stuff weighs a ton it will make the boats harder to haul around and
there may be some issues with the stresses on a structure that was
meant for light-weight construction.
The published density of UHMW poly is 0.034 lb/cubic inch or 0.93
gm/cc. That's something like 12% the density of steel. I haven't seen
a recommended thickness for boat use.
I've been following the UHMW thread with some
interest since a sandy shore is kinda rare around here. From all the sites
I've seen, UHMW is expensive everywhere. I've seen about $250 for 1/2"
4'x8' and $150 for 1/4" 4x8. I'm thinking sheets because it would seem
that skids would not provide enough protection (at least in our rocky-shored end
of the world).
I have a couple of questions for those that have
used it:
If it must be screwed or bolted on, how thin
can the sheet be?
How much does it weigh? I haven't found any
specs on the web sites. For a lot of the smaller bolger boats it would
seem that the purpose of UHMW is to protect the relatively light
hulls. If this stuff weighs a ton it will make the boats harder to haul
around and there may be some issues with the stresses on a structure that was
meant for light-weight construction.
Larry
----- Original Message -----From:James FullerSent:Saturday, March 17, 2001 7:52 PMSubject:Re: [bolger] Re: fastening UHMWHere is a boat site that sells UHMW sheets ( at a high price!!)<snip>----- Original Message -----From:shansen@...Sent:Saturday, March 17, 2001 2:06 PMSubject:[bolger] Re: fastening UHMW
There should be a source of UHMW poly near you but for examples of
what shapes are available and how much the stuff costs, you can check
outhttp://www.usplastic.com
<snip>
Since many marine applications for "plastics" do not push the
compressive, flexural, tensile, or dielectric ratings of common
plastics, the following might be of interest:
Water absorbtion (24 hours, 1/8 inch thickness, % by weight):
Nylon: 6 to 12%
Delrin(R)Acetal: 0.25%
Teflon(R)TFE: 0.33%
HDPE Polyethylene: 0.01%
UHMW Polyethylene: 0.01 to 0.03%
John
compressive, flexural, tensile, or dielectric ratings of common
plastics, the following might be of interest:
Water absorbtion (24 hours, 1/8 inch thickness, % by weight):
Nylon: 6 to 12%
Delrin(R)Acetal: 0.25%
Teflon(R)TFE: 0.33%
HDPE Polyethylene: 0.01%
UHMW Polyethylene: 0.01 to 0.03%
John
> I've used HDPE (high density polyethylene) for bearing surfaces fora pivoting leeboard.
An inexpensive plastic thruhull fitting makes a good bushing for a
leeboard. - PHV
I've used HDPE (high density polyethylene) for bearing surfaces for a
pivoting leeboard and to line a masthead dumsheave. HDPE is the
stuff milk jugs and plastic grocery bags, among other things, are
made of. It's considerably softer than UHMW but it's still pretty
slippery and when it wears through it's cheap to replace. Right now
I'm making a euphroe for a junk rig out of the stuff. A euphroe is
the fiddleblock-like thingy that the sheets from a junk sail go
through. Woodworking tools work well on HDPE - it planes like butter.
The problem with HDPE is that I cannot get it to bond to anything
else so it would not make a good skid surface for a stem or keel.
You can use wood screws to mechanically attach the stuff - it's used
for home decks in place of wood. I'm not sure if such mechanical
attachments would hold up in high impact/abrasion areas. You could
countersink the screws and then fill the sinks with hot glue gun
glue, which is also HDPE.
Regards
Andy Farquhar
pivoting leeboard and to line a masthead dumsheave. HDPE is the
stuff milk jugs and plastic grocery bags, among other things, are
made of. It's considerably softer than UHMW but it's still pretty
slippery and when it wears through it's cheap to replace. Right now
I'm making a euphroe for a junk rig out of the stuff. A euphroe is
the fiddleblock-like thingy that the sheets from a junk sail go
through. Woodworking tools work well on HDPE - it planes like butter.
The problem with HDPE is that I cannot get it to bond to anything
else so it would not make a good skid surface for a stem or keel.
You can use wood screws to mechanically attach the stuff - it's used
for home decks in place of wood. I'm not sure if such mechanical
attachments would hold up in high impact/abrasion areas. You could
countersink the screws and then fill the sinks with hot glue gun
glue, which is also HDPE.
Regards
Andy Farquhar
UHMW is used extensively in the conveyor business for product guide rails.
Often it is available is extruded strips from fit in an aluminum extrusion.
This would make it easy to install and replace when it's worn out. Contact
a conveyor company for information or go to google.com and try a search.
UHMW has very similar properties to Teflon and can be used in Teflon's place
in 99% of applications. It's main difference is Teflon will hold up to a
much higher heat.
Hope this Helps,
Claton Cadmus
Often it is available is extruded strips from fit in an aluminum extrusion.
This would make it easy to install and replace when it's worn out. Contact
a conveyor company for information or go to google.com and try a search.
UHMW has very similar properties to Teflon and can be used in Teflon's place
in 99% of applications. It's main difference is Teflon will hold up to a
much higher heat.
Hope this Helps,
Claton Cadmus