Re: [bolger] Re: Light Scooner & Trapeze & Festival
Excellent! I figure the foremast should at least prevent you from going
around the bow, though I guess you could shoot between the foresail and
main mast...
I can make wires, but I think some fancy 3 or 4 mm line would be best - the
main mast is only 17' or so tall anyway. I could see a metal ring in the
bottom and maybe a trucker's hitch to adjust heighth. I also have some
nice webbing to make a harness, but I can't think of a way to make that
nice hook with adjustable straps. Maybe a Wichard snap hook, though that
would be slow to unhook...
Gregg Carlson
around the bow, though I guess you could shoot between the foresail and
main mast...
I can make wires, but I think some fancy 3 or 4 mm line would be best - the
main mast is only 17' or so tall anyway. I could see a metal ring in the
bottom and maybe a trucker's hitch to adjust heighth. I also have some
nice webbing to make a harness, but I can't think of a way to make that
nice hook with adjustable straps. Maybe a Wichard snap hook, though that
would be slow to unhook...
Gregg Carlson
>TRAPEZES Try using4or 5mm prestretched sailing rope instead of SSAt 10:00 AM 3/29/01 -0000, you wrote:
>wire it unknots easily enough to adjust the length without all those
>pulleys and cleats. Most racing dinghies over here use 3mm rope.....
>For grip on the side of the boat Use the best quality surfboard wax,
>about $1.00 a cake. I made my harness from seatbelts( wreckers$2.00)
>and sewed it up with a bag needle and string( $1.50) It has lasted 3
>years no damage. TAKE PHOTOS PLEASE. we cant let you have all the fun
>on your own.
>Trapeze? Real screamer. Might try local Hobie dealer and or ask01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>them for local Hobie Group.
>If it's a one time only thing you should be able to borrow Trapeze
>from some local Hobie folk, or sombody in group might have one for
>sale, maybe just the harness and you would have to make up the wire
>yourself. The Hobies should just be able to just cruise along on
>beside you and evaluate your performance. One time only thing, I'd
>try borrowing one or two or God forbid, three. Helsmean with long
>hiking stick, scary. At least that way, evreybody gets wet together
>when the helsman srcews up.
>Might want to practice a little befor the race. Try to keep the trap
>guy from crashing into the mast on tacks or jibes. That will make him
>or her not want to do it again. (Hate it when that happens)
>Don't think that's what Bolger had in mind for that boat, but hey,
>it's your boat, you can do with it whatever you want.
>Depending on the lengths of the legs and how short the tacks are
>you, might try "Sandbags" and bodies on rail worked well in
>old "Sandbager" Cats, and if its a downwind finish, just dump the
>sand and any unneeded crew overboard if necessary to make the boat
>fly dowind.
>
>Might also try "Hiking plank" 10 or 12 feet long and made so it can
>slide side to side. That gets the weight out there pretty far ,maybe
>two or three on the plank, makes it intesting, but pray for no sudden
>wind shifts, or lulls, and keep a skilled hand on the tiller. Could
>try makin up a "Bowline on a bight, Trapeze harness, tied to fit,
>then attached with wire or light line.
>Also might try sewing heavy Webbing with "hook" around wearable life
>vests.
>
>If it works, don't try to point too high. Just get the boat moving as
>fast as it will go, and keep it moving as fast as it will go.
>Once moving, sail it more like a "Cat", go for speed, trading
>pointing for speed, then try pointing a little higher, as speed and
>apparent wind increase. Sheet in a little more, and try pointing a
>little highter, but don't "pinch" or boat will stop, your wire people
>will fall in the water, or swing, and you will have to start all over
>again. First get the boat going fast, then sheet in, then try
>pointing higher. If boat slows down with no decrease in real wind,
>fall off a little ,(Dont't stall the sails, but with Schooner sails
>they are less likly to stalll as the hi aspect "Hobie" sail. Tie
>yawn "teltails" to all sails. (about a tird of the way back, to check
>for stall. But keep the sheets in, to keep the boat moving as fast
>as possible. Then try to sail as if on a close reach, even when
>pointing, but keep boat moving as fast as you can, then sheet in a
>little more to again take advantage of increase in apparent wind.
>the faster you go, the faster you can go. This is never going to be
>a "Cat" but might try to sail it like one, especially if you have
>weight out and can start to get it to plane.
>(Bad news here, I don't think it will ever plane)
>Boat speed first, direction second.
>But, remmember that when boat goes over, you're done.
>
>Have fun and Good luck. Let us know how bad the crash was.
>
>Don't know how fancy your boat is, but, black plastic polly pipe
>of appropiate diameter works well. Just slit it with sharp knife,
>or preferably a table saw (I still have scar on finger from cutting
>black platic pipe with knife), and open it up, and wrap it around
>and screw it to the rail.
>Old "Fire hose" works well too.
>Rope? Just stainless screws with stainless washer (about 1/4")
>through one of the strands should should work well at whatever
>seems appropriate intervals.
>
>Remember, if you are going to have people out on a wire you must
>provide them a non-slip place for their feet.
>When on a wire, you have very little for and aft control, any sudden
>change in speeed or directon can nake you slip or you can just slip
>off by yourself. (Also a bad thing) Usuually will not stop the boat,
>but they just swing out, in long, what seem like a way out, because
>it is, and then crash back into the mast. (Ouch)
>
>Pat Patteson
>Molalla. Oreon
>
>
>--- In bolger@e..., Gregg Carlson <ghartc@p...> wrote:
>> We're planning to attend the Woodenboat Festival and race May 4, 5,
>6 at
>> Pirate's Cove near Josephine, Alabama (near Orange Beach,L and
>Pensacola, FL).
>>
>> There's a sharpie race, rowboat race, and a schooner/workboat race
>on
>> Saturday. It's supposed to be a lot of fun and it's a definitely a
>great
>> place.
>>
>> Link to Pirate's Cove marina ishttp://www.piratescoveriffraff.com/
>and the
>> link to the show ishttp://www.sailtheking.com/pwba.htm
>>
>> Now, I'm looking for a trapeze set and/or harness, any condition,
>surplus,
>> etc. for the scooner.
>>
>> On to rubrails for the scooner, does anyone have a suggestion as to
>how to
>> attach rope? I've also considered the half-round foam-filled
>canvas - very
>> nice, but $5/foot??
>>
>> Gregg Carlson
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
>- no flogging dead horses
>- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>- stay on topic and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Trapeze? Real screamer. Might try local Hobie dealer and or ask
them for local Hobie Group.
If it's a one time only thing you should be able to borrow Trapeze
from some local Hobie folk, or sombody in group might have one for
sale, maybe just the harness and you would have to make up the wire
yourself. The Hobies should just be able to just cruise along on
beside you and evaluate your performance. One time only thing, I'd
try borrowing one or two or God forbid, three. Helsmean with long
hiking stick, scary. At least that way, evreybody gets wet together
when the helsman srcews up.
Might want to practice a little befor the race. Try to keep the trap
guy from crashing into the mast on tacks or jibes. That will make him
or her not want to do it again. (Hate it when that happens)
Don't think that's what Bolger had in mind for that boat, but hey,
it's your boat, you can do with it whatever you want.
Depending on the lengths of the legs and how short the tacks are
you, might try "Sandbags" and bodies on rail worked well in
old "Sandbager" Cats, and if its a downwind finish, just dump the
sand and any unneeded crew overboard if necessary to make the boat
fly dowind.
Might also try "Hiking plank" 10 or 12 feet long and made so it can
slide side to side. That gets the weight out there pretty far ,maybe
two or three on the plank, makes it intesting, but pray for no sudden
wind shifts, or lulls, and keep a skilled hand on the tiller. Could
try makin up a "Bowline on a bight, Trapeze harness, tied to fit,
then attached with wire or light line.
Also might try sewing heavy Webbing with "hook" around wearable life
vests.
If it works, don't try to point too high. Just get the boat moving as
fast as it will go, and keep it moving as fast as it will go.
Once moving, sail it more like a "Cat", go for speed, trading
pointing for speed, then try pointing a little higher, as speed and
apparent wind increase. Sheet in a little more, and try pointing a
little highter, but don't "pinch" or boat will stop, your wire people
will fall in the water, or swing, and you will have to start all over
again. First get the boat going fast, then sheet in, then try
pointing higher. If boat slows down with no decrease in real wind,
fall off a little ,(Dont't stall the sails, but with Schooner sails
they are less likly to stalll as the hi aspect "Hobie" sail. Tie
yawn "teltails" to all sails. (about a tird of the way back, to check
for stall. But keep the sheets in, to keep the boat moving as fast
as possible. Then try to sail as if on a close reach, even when
pointing, but keep boat moving as fast as you can, then sheet in a
little more to again take advantage of increase in apparent wind.
the faster you go, the faster you can go. This is never going to be
a "Cat" but might try to sail it like one, especially if you have
weight out and can start to get it to plane.
(Bad news here, I don't think it will ever plane)
Boat speed first, direction second.
But, remmember that when boat goes over, you're done.
Have fun and Good luck. Let us know how bad the crash was.
Don't know how fancy your boat is, but, black plastic polly pipe
of appropiate diameter works well. Just slit it with sharp knife,
or preferably a table saw (I still have scar on finger from cutting
black platic pipe with knife), and open it up, and wrap it around
and screw it to the rail.
Old "Fire hose" works well too.
Rope? Just stainless screws with stainless washer (about 1/4")
through one of the strands should should work well at whatever
seems appropriate intervals.
Remember, if you are going to have people out on a wire you must
provide them a non-slip place for their feet.
When on a wire, you have very little for and aft control, any sudden
change in speeed or directon can nake you slip or you can just slip
off by yourself. (Also a bad thing) Usuually will not stop the boat,
but they just swing out, in long, what seem like a way out, because
it is, and then crash back into the mast. (Ouch)
Pat Patteson
Molalla. Oreon
them for local Hobie Group.
If it's a one time only thing you should be able to borrow Trapeze
from some local Hobie folk, or sombody in group might have one for
sale, maybe just the harness and you would have to make up the wire
yourself. The Hobies should just be able to just cruise along on
beside you and evaluate your performance. One time only thing, I'd
try borrowing one or two or God forbid, three. Helsmean with long
hiking stick, scary. At least that way, evreybody gets wet together
when the helsman srcews up.
Might want to practice a little befor the race. Try to keep the trap
guy from crashing into the mast on tacks or jibes. That will make him
or her not want to do it again. (Hate it when that happens)
Don't think that's what Bolger had in mind for that boat, but hey,
it's your boat, you can do with it whatever you want.
Depending on the lengths of the legs and how short the tacks are
you, might try "Sandbags" and bodies on rail worked well in
old "Sandbager" Cats, and if its a downwind finish, just dump the
sand and any unneeded crew overboard if necessary to make the boat
fly dowind.
Might also try "Hiking plank" 10 or 12 feet long and made so it can
slide side to side. That gets the weight out there pretty far ,maybe
two or three on the plank, makes it intesting, but pray for no sudden
wind shifts, or lulls, and keep a skilled hand on the tiller. Could
try makin up a "Bowline on a bight, Trapeze harness, tied to fit,
then attached with wire or light line.
Also might try sewing heavy Webbing with "hook" around wearable life
vests.
If it works, don't try to point too high. Just get the boat moving as
fast as it will go, and keep it moving as fast as it will go.
Once moving, sail it more like a "Cat", go for speed, trading
pointing for speed, then try pointing a little higher, as speed and
apparent wind increase. Sheet in a little more, and try pointing a
little highter, but don't "pinch" or boat will stop, your wire people
will fall in the water, or swing, and you will have to start all over
again. First get the boat going fast, then sheet in, then try
pointing higher. If boat slows down with no decrease in real wind,
fall off a little ,(Dont't stall the sails, but with Schooner sails
they are less likly to stalll as the hi aspect "Hobie" sail. Tie
yawn "teltails" to all sails. (about a tird of the way back, to check
for stall. But keep the sheets in, to keep the boat moving as fast
as possible. Then try to sail as if on a close reach, even when
pointing, but keep boat moving as fast as you can, then sheet in a
little more to again take advantage of increase in apparent wind.
the faster you go, the faster you can go. This is never going to be
a "Cat" but might try to sail it like one, especially if you have
weight out and can start to get it to plane.
(Bad news here, I don't think it will ever plane)
Boat speed first, direction second.
But, remmember that when boat goes over, you're done.
Have fun and Good luck. Let us know how bad the crash was.
Don't know how fancy your boat is, but, black plastic polly pipe
of appropiate diameter works well. Just slit it with sharp knife,
or preferably a table saw (I still have scar on finger from cutting
black platic pipe with knife), and open it up, and wrap it around
and screw it to the rail.
Old "Fire hose" works well too.
Rope? Just stainless screws with stainless washer (about 1/4")
through one of the strands should should work well at whatever
seems appropriate intervals.
Remember, if you are going to have people out on a wire you must
provide them a non-slip place for their feet.
When on a wire, you have very little for and aft control, any sudden
change in speeed or directon can nake you slip or you can just slip
off by yourself. (Also a bad thing) Usuually will not stop the boat,
but they just swing out, in long, what seem like a way out, because
it is, and then crash back into the mast. (Ouch)
Pat Patteson
Molalla. Oreon
--- In bolger@e..., Gregg Carlson <ghartc@p...> wrote:
> We're planning to attend the Woodenboat Festival and race May 4, 5,
6 at
> Pirate's Cove near Josephine, Alabama (near Orange Beach,L and
Pensacola, FL).
>
> There's a sharpie race, rowboat race, and a schooner/workboat race
on
> Saturday. It's supposed to be a lot of fun and it's a definitely a
great
> place.
>
> Link to Pirate's Cove marina ishttp://www.piratescoveriffraff.com/
and the
> link to the show ishttp://www.sailtheking.com/pwba.htm
>
> Now, I'm looking for a trapeze set and/or harness, any condition,
surplus,
> etc. for the scooner.
>
> On to rubrails for the scooner, does anyone have a suggestion as to
how to
> attach rope? I've also considered the half-round foam-filled
canvas - very
> nice, but $5/foot??
>
> Gregg Carlson
In a message dated 3/28/01 9:59:26 AM Central Standard Time,
ghartc@... writes:
ghartc@... writes:
This isn't a newsgroup, it's a moderated email list.
Greg: This site is the BEST of whatever it is, and obviously every
participant owes a great debt to you. I have sent an apology to gentleman
whose post prompted this exchange, and hope that you will accept my apology
for prompting your intercession in this matter. I promise to try to avoid
such faux pas on my part in the future.
Sincerely,
Bill in MN
In a message dated 3/28/01 8:23:28 AM Central Standard Time,
dcassidy@... writes:
dcassidy@... writes:
Might I suggest that you simply refrain from reading this thread?
Please accept my sincere apology for my unnecessary, intemperate and impolite
response to your prior posting. Your advice about refraining from reading
(or, more to the point, responding to) to certain threads is very much to the
point. This point of etiquette has been raised on this group before (in cases
of unrecognized attempts at humor, irony, etc.) but not, to my knowledge, so
succintly as you have done. I, unfortunately cannot plead unrecognized
"humor", etc. in mitigation of my transgression. I do not recall the
occasion, but I must have been in some sort of foul temper when I posted my
response. Our esteemed Moderator sent me a very polite, but very firm
admonishment about my bad behavior in this matter, which I have taken to
heart. I promise to refrain from any further remarks on the subject of
intellectual property law on this (the "net"'s BEST) moderated group in the
future.
Sincerely,
Bill in MN
Stan Muller wrote:
like to make a few closing points:
* I never said anything about published plans, which is I believe the
real dead horse
* What I was interested in was making copies of old (boating!) magazines,
which have now folded, available somehow (probably on the web). To this
end I suggested two possible approaches:
1. Find a loophole which allows us to reproduce magazines if they
are no longer available. This loophole clearly does not exist
2. Buy up the rights to old magazines and build a website around them.
It looks like this would not be possible either, because owning the
magazine rights would not, in most cases, give you the rights to the
actual articles (which belong to the author)
So, we have reached our dead end and I will now leave well enough alone.
Bruce
**********************************************************************
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If it is not addressed to you, please immediately contact
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**********************************************************************
> Have any of you guys thought about opening an copyright-egroup, orOkay, okay already! Sorry now that I said anything at all, but I would
> an alt.copyright.deadhorses? ;-)
like to make a few closing points:
* I never said anything about published plans, which is I believe the
real dead horse
* What I was interested in was making copies of old (boating!) magazines,
which have now folded, available somehow (probably on the web). To this
end I suggested two possible approaches:
1. Find a loophole which allows us to reproduce magazines if they
are no longer available. This loophole clearly does not exist
2. Buy up the rights to old magazines and build a website around them.
It looks like this would not be possible either, because owning the
magazine rights would not, in most cases, give you the rights to the
actual articles (which belong to the author)
So, we have reached our dead end and I will now leave well enough alone.
Bruce
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it from Mi Services
Group may contain information which is
privileged, confidential and protected from disclosure.
If it is not addressed to you, please immediately contact
nzpostmaster@...and do not use, disclose,
copy, distribute or retain any of it without our authority.
**********************************************************************
Gregg,
For the rub rails try the swimming noodles sold at walmart. Slit
them open on one side and wrap them with a strip of unbleached muslin
cut on the bias. You can lay a bead of PL adhesive and close them
right up. The finish looks pretty good. If you want them extra
strong you can put 1/2 PVC tube inside when you PL them together.
Have a great time, wish I was there.
Reguards, Les
For the rub rails try the swimming noodles sold at walmart. Slit
them open on one side and wrap them with a strip of unbleached muslin
cut on the bias. You can lay a bead of PL adhesive and close them
right up. The finish looks pretty good. If you want them extra
strong you can put 1/2 PVC tube inside when you PL them together.
Have a great time, wish I was there.
Reguards, Les
--- In bolger@y..., Gregg Carlson <ghartc@p...> wrote:
> We're planning to attend the Woodenboat Festival and race May 4, 5,
6 at
> Pirate's Cove near Josephine, Alabama (near Orange Beach,L and
Pensacola, FL).
>
> There's a sharpie race, rowboat race, and a schooner/workboat race
on
> Saturday. It's supposed to be a lot of fun and it's a definitely a
great
> place.
>
> Link to Pirate's Cove marina ishttp://www.piratescoveriffraff.com/
and the
> link to the show ishttp://www.sailtheking.com/pwba.htm
>
> Now, I'm looking for a trapeze set and/or harness, any condition,
surplus,
> etc. for the scooner.
>
> On to rubrails for the scooner, does anyone have a suggestion as to
how to
> attach rope? I've also considered the half-round foam-filled
canvas - very
> nice, but $5/foot??
>
> Gregg Carlson
Have any of you guys thought about opening an copyright-egroup, or
an alt.copyright.deadhorses? ;-)
Anybody in the group have a Bolger boat, or plans to have one, or
even some other kind of boat they want to build, buy, or steal?
As a last resort, does any one want me to talk about the observatory
I'm building? At least it is in the same back yard as my garage which
houses a BOLGER boat, so it is closer to topic.
Two things are true, 1) we've been down this road before, and 2)
there is nothing at the end of the road. Lets add copyrights to religion
and politics, as things we don't bring up in conversation. ;-)
Stan, on a snowy turned rainy wednesday stuck inside ranting on the
computer, longing to hear something about boats.
an alt.copyright.deadhorses? ;-)
Anybody in the group have a Bolger boat, or plans to have one, or
even some other kind of boat they want to build, buy, or steal?
As a last resort, does any one want me to talk about the observatory
I'm building? At least it is in the same back yard as my garage which
houses a BOLGER boat, so it is closer to topic.
Two things are true, 1) we've been down this road before, and 2)
there is nothing at the end of the road. Lets add copyrights to religion
and politics, as things we don't bring up in conversation. ;-)
Stan, on a snowy turned rainy wednesday stuck inside ranting on the
computer, longing to hear something about boats.
We're planning to attend the Woodenboat Festival and race May 4, 5, 6 at
Pirate's Cove near Josephine, Alabama (near Orange Beach,L and Pensacola, FL).
There's a sharpie race, rowboat race, and a schooner/workboat race on
Saturday. It's supposed to be a lot of fun and it's a definitely a great
place.
Link to Pirate's Cove marina ishttp://www.piratescoveriffraff.com/and the
link to the show ishttp://www.sailtheking.com/pwba.htm
Now, I'm looking for a trapeze set and/or harness, any condition, surplus,
etc. for the scooner.
On to rubrails for the scooner, does anyone have a suggestion as to how to
attach rope? I've also considered the half-round foam-filled canvas - very
nice, but $5/foot??
Gregg Carlson
Pirate's Cove near Josephine, Alabama (near Orange Beach,L and Pensacola, FL).
There's a sharpie race, rowboat race, and a schooner/workboat race on
Saturday. It's supposed to be a lot of fun and it's a definitely a great
place.
Link to Pirate's Cove marina ishttp://www.piratescoveriffraff.com/and the
link to the show ishttp://www.sailtheking.com/pwba.htm
Now, I'm looking for a trapeze set and/or harness, any condition, surplus,
etc. for the scooner.
On to rubrails for the scooner, does anyone have a suggestion as to how to
attach rope? I've also considered the half-round foam-filled canvas - very
nice, but $5/foot??
Gregg Carlson
This isn't a newsgroup, it's a moderated email list. Remember, every
member gets every email, however they choose to dispose of them.
With 700+ members, this semi-private group has an almost 100%
signal-to-noise ratio and next to no personal attacks. It's a credit to
the membership that we all try to add something topical and interesting
with each post. When we don't, I hear about it.
So, if you MUST get something off your chest re. copyright, please do it
and get back to boatbuilding.
Gregg Carlson
Moderator
At 09:18 AM 3/28/01 -0500, you wrote:
member gets every email, however they choose to dispose of them.
With 700+ members, this semi-private group has an almost 100%
signal-to-noise ratio and next to no personal attacks. It's a credit to
the membership that we all try to add something topical and interesting
with each post. When we don't, I hear about it.
So, if you MUST get something off your chest re. copyright, please do it
and get back to boatbuilding.
Gregg Carlson
Moderator
At 09:18 AM 3/28/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Are we to stoop to the level of other NGs and start appointing ourselves01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>"internet cops?"
>
>Judging from the number of posts and continuing questions this IS a
>topic of interest to many. Some of us actually DO have factual knowledge
>and experience to share about the topic.
>
>Might I suggest that you simply refrain from reading this thread?
>
>wmrpage@...wrote:
>Oh! Moderator! (Greg the Magnificent) Where art Thou now? As the amateur
>
>> patent/trademark/copywright "lawyers" propound their uninformed,
>> un-cited
>> notions of the law? If there is an "off the Bolger" thread that
>> deserves a
>> mercy killing, this thread is definitely the first candidate, IMHO. I
>> think
>> that I've been down this road before, without gleaning any information
>> of
>> reliability or utility.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
>- no flogging dead horses
>- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>- stay on topic and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Hey everyone.....can we get back to building boats and
take this copywrite discussion down the hall to someone who gives hoot???
Please take this off line.
Thanks,
Jim C.
-----Original Message-----In a message dated 3/27/01 9:32:54 PM Central Standard Time,
From:wmrpage@... [mailto:wmrpage@...]
Sent:Tuesday, March 27, 2001 8:58 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: Magazines
cha62759@... writes:Is this beating a dead horse?
Oh! Moderator! (Greg the Magnificent) Where art Thou now? As the amateur
patent/trademark/copywright "lawyers" propound their uninformed, un-cited
notions of the law? If there is an "off the Bolger" thread that deserves a
mercy killing, this thread is definitely the first candidate, IMHO. I think
that I've been down this road before, without gleaning any information of
reliability or utility.
Bill in MN,
Yours in Hostility
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
Yes it is an interesting question and appropo an authors rights there
is a hearing before the Supreme Court today which bears on an author's
rights in the computer age that is interesting if you are interested.
is a hearing before the Supreme Court today which bears on an author's
rights in the computer age that is interesting if you are interested.
--- In bolger@y..., David <dcassidy@t...> wrote:
> Are we to stoop to the level of other NGs and start appointing
ourselves
> "internet cops?"
>
> Judging from the number of posts and continuing questions this IS a
> topic of interest to many. Some of us actually DO have factual
knowledge
> and experience to share about the topic.
>
> Might I suggest that you simply refrain from reading this thread?
>
> wmrpage@a... wrote:
> Oh! Moderator! (Greg the Magnificent) Where art Thou now? As the
amateur
>
> > patent/trademark/copywright "lawyers" propound their uninformed,
> > un-cited
> > notions of the law? If there is an "off the Bolger" thread that
> > deserves a
> > mercy killing, this thread is definitely the first candidate,
IMHO. I
> > think
> > that I've been down this road before, without gleaning any
information
> > of
> > reliability or utility.
> >
> >
Are we to stoop to the level of other NGs and start appointing ourselves
"internet cops?"
Judging from the number of posts and continuing questions this IS a
topic of interest to many. Some of us actually DO have factual knowledge
and experience to share about the topic.
Might I suggest that you simply refrain from reading this thread?
wmrpage@...wrote:
Oh! Moderator! (Greg the Magnificent) Where art Thou now? As the amateur
"internet cops?"
Judging from the number of posts and continuing questions this IS a
topic of interest to many. Some of us actually DO have factual knowledge
and experience to share about the topic.
Might I suggest that you simply refrain from reading this thread?
wmrpage@...wrote:
Oh! Moderator! (Greg the Magnificent) Where art Thou now? As the amateur
> patent/trademark/copywright "lawyers" propound their uninformed,
> un-cited
> notions of the law? If there is an "off the Bolger" thread that
> deserves a
> mercy killing, this thread is definitely the first candidate, IMHO. I
> think
> that I've been down this road before, without gleaning any information
> of
> reliability or utility.
>
>
Be careful . . . as we have discussed at length in the past here, the copyright law has NO
jurisdiction over whether or not I build a boat. Copyright law only controls who and what can be
legally published.
If I have a copy of a magazine with plans in it, I can build that boat and owe nothing to the
designer. If I take that magazine article and photocopy it and try to sell it at the next local
messabout, I AM in violation of copyright.
David
Charles Whipple wrote:
jurisdiction over whether or not I build a boat. Copyright law only controls who and what can be
legally published.
If I have a copy of a magazine with plans in it, I can build that boat and owe nothing to the
designer. If I take that magazine article and photocopy it and try to sell it at the next local
messabout, I AM in violation of copyright.
David
Charles Whipple wrote:
> As a writer, I guess I'll put my cent into the discussion. When we sell
> articles to magazines, we sign a contract that says what rights we are
> assigning to the magazine. These range from one-time North American rights
> to what we call "work for hire," which means the magazine owns all rights
> for as long as the copyright law allows. I imagine the magazines in question
> bought the rights from the designers for a one-time publication. I doubt if
> there was a reversion clause in the contracts of those days, but there may
> have been. For example, one magazine I write for buys the rights for 60
> days, after that they revert to me. To make a long story short, to be
> absolutely sure if you had the right to build a boat from an old magazine,
> you'd have to know what contract the magazine had with the designer of the
> boat. The magazine's rights may have lapsed and the design copyright
> reverted to the designer or the designer's estate.
>
> Charlie
>
> ----------
> >From:cha62759@...
> >To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [bolger] Re: Magazines
> >Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 03:29:03 -0000
> >
>
> > What we are talking about is boat plans published in various
> > magazines
> > and books. Where plans were published in magazines as "How to"
> > articles. If you buy the magazine you have the right to build the
> > boat. Most gave you the option of obtaining full size plans for
> > nominal sums. $10-$20. The Herreshoff boats that were published in
> > the
> > "Rudder" series were this sort. You can still get the full size plans
> > for what is essentially the cost of printing them. Looking over my
> > copies of "How to Build 20 Boats", and "23 Boats You Can Build" there
> > is no limitation expressed on how many boats you can build from the
> > plans. For all practical purposes these plans are in the public
> > domain. Often the drawings are "study plans" with the proviso that if
> > you want to build the boat you must buy the plans and be restricted
> > to
> > one off (usually). You are not buying the paper, you are buying the
> > right to build one boat.
> >
> > I think that copying a text book or magazine article to avoid buying
> > it is a violation of the copyright law and under some circumstances
> > even copying it after you've bought it is a violation of copyright.
> >
> > Is this beating a dead horse?
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> >> The author, Don
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Bruce Fountain" <B_Fountain@M...>
> >> To: <bolger@y...>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 7:10 PM
> >> Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Magazines
> >>
> >>
> >> > dcassidy@t... wrote:
> >> > > The "Fair use" provision of copyright law allows an
> >> > > individual to copy something for their own.
> >> > > personal use. So, it's perfectly OK for me to photocopy pages
> >> > > out of "Small Boats" or "Boats With
> >> > > an Open Mind" so I can make notes without damaging the
> >> > > original, frame them and put them on my
> >> > > office walls, etc. It would be illegal for me to make 100
> >> > > copies and pass them out to my friends, or
> >> > > to post a page from one of those books on my website without
> >> > > permission
> >> >
> >> > Fair enough, I guess this is the loophole we were using at uni
> >> > - copying a textbook or magazine article for personal study.
> >> > Obviously we weren't re-publishing it.
> >> >
> >> > It seems a shame that the copyright owner can effectively
> >> > suppress material that was once accessible.
> >> >
> >> > > A good analogy would be -- if you refuse to sell me your car,
> >> > > is it OK for me to take it?
> >> >
> >> > Just to play devil's advocate - if you abandon your boat there
> >> > are provisions under which I could claim ownership, at least in
> >> > the US ('cos I have followed discussions on this subject in
> >> > rec.boats.building). Actually I think both analogies are flawed.
> >> >
> >> > Who actually owns the copyright anyway? The author or the
> >> > publisher (magazine)?
> >> >
> >> > Bruce
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> > **********************************************************************
> >> > This email and any files transmitted with it from Mi Services
> >> > Group may contain information which is
> >> > privileged, confidential and protected from disclosure.
> >> > If it is not addressed to you, please immediately contact
> >> > nzpostmaster@m... and do not use, disclose,
> >> > copy, distribute or retain any of it without our authority.
> >> >
> >> >
> > **********************************************************************
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Bolger rules!!!
> >> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> >> > - no flogging dead horses
> >> > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> >> > - stay on topic and punctuate
> >> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> >> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > Gloucester,
> > MA,
> >> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > - no flogging dead horses
> > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Bruce asks some questions about copyright that cannot be answered in a sentence or two. If you are
not interested in this topic, you can safely delete this post now.
Bruce Fountain wrote:
<snip>
published, or (more often) for not being able to find a venue to profitably publish thier work. To
bend my analogy (perhaps, for some, to the point of breaking ;) If I own a classic, original
Herrshoff designed and built boat in absolute original and mint condition, you might think it would
be nice if I displayed it at boat shows, donated it to a museum or at least took it for a spin
around the harbor every once in a while. But, if i am the owner, I can leave it locked up in my
garage with a tarp over it if i want. It's mine.
speak only of writing and art here -- we have already discussed at length in this forum about how
the copyright of a boat "design" is treated differently -- though, the printed version of that
design is subject to the interpretations I'm giving here). Some magazines allow writers to retain
rights after publication. Some insist on outright ownership of the copyright of the material
(though, these are becoming more and more rare). Whichever deal is struck, the actual printed pages
of the magazine are copyrighted by the publisher. That means that even though Mr. Bolger owns the
copyright to his own works and articles that appear in Messing About In Boats, the publisher of that
magazine owns the copyright to the printed page of Mr. Bolger's article (Unless Mr. Hicks has a
different agreement with Mr. Bolger than is ordinary). So, if you were to photocopy one of Mr.
Bolger's articles from MIAB and send it to 500 of your closest friends, post it on your website or
put it in your club's newsletter, you would be violating BOTH Mr. Bolger's AND Mr. Hicks'
copyrights. If you were to just typw up the words to the article and distribute them without
permission, you would only be violating Mr. Bolger's copyright.
I'm sorry of this has leaped into the world of "more than I really wanted to know."
David
not interested in this topic, you can safely delete this post now.
Bruce Fountain wrote:
<snip>
> It seems a shame that the copyright owner can effectivelyIt is their property, to do with as they please.
> suppress material that was once accessible.
> Just to play devil's advocate - if you abandon your boat thereBut, you are assuming that a copyright holder is somehow "wrong" for not having their work
> are provisions under which I could claim ownership, at least in
> the US ('cos I have followed discussions on this subject in
> rec.boats.building). Actually I think both analogies are flawed.
published, or (more often) for not being able to find a venue to profitably publish thier work. To
bend my analogy (perhaps, for some, to the point of breaking ;) If I own a classic, original
Herrshoff designed and built boat in absolute original and mint condition, you might think it would
be nice if I displayed it at boat shows, donated it to a museum or at least took it for a spin
around the harbor every once in a while. But, if i am the owner, I can leave it locked up in my
garage with a tarp over it if i want. It's mine.
> Who actually owns the copyright anyway? The author or theThat would depend on the deal that was struck between the author and the magazine publisher (and, I
> publisher (magazine)?
speak only of writing and art here -- we have already discussed at length in this forum about how
the copyright of a boat "design" is treated differently -- though, the printed version of that
design is subject to the interpretations I'm giving here). Some magazines allow writers to retain
rights after publication. Some insist on outright ownership of the copyright of the material
(though, these are becoming more and more rare). Whichever deal is struck, the actual printed pages
of the magazine are copyrighted by the publisher. That means that even though Mr. Bolger owns the
copyright to his own works and articles that appear in Messing About In Boats, the publisher of that
magazine owns the copyright to the printed page of Mr. Bolger's article (Unless Mr. Hicks has a
different agreement with Mr. Bolger than is ordinary). So, if you were to photocopy one of Mr.
Bolger's articles from MIAB and send it to 500 of your closest friends, post it on your website or
put it in your club's newsletter, you would be violating BOTH Mr. Bolger's AND Mr. Hicks'
copyrights. If you were to just typw up the words to the article and distribute them without
permission, you would only be violating Mr. Bolger's copyright.
I'm sorry of this has leaped into the world of "more than I really wanted to know."
David
Re: copyright -
A couple of weeks ago, as part of a thread in a another list, I wanted to
post a scanned picture of a log canoe. The picture is from "Men, Ships and
the Sea" which I received as a gift about 40 years ago (!). So I emailed
Nat'l Geo and asked. Their response, which I feel is a good dose of reality
for us web dwellers, was polite but firm. The meat of it was:
Thanks for contacting us.
Please see the attached memo that outlines our basic pricing and
procedures.
(See attached file: Publicdo.doc)
We understand that you are not using the image in advertising, or in a
publication, but it will still need to be licensed (minimum $200.00
fee).
Plus we need to know the page number to even see if we own the image. It
might
be owned by someone else. We just need a little more info (as outlined
in the
memo) in order to help.
Larry
A couple of weeks ago, as part of a thread in a another list, I wanted to
post a scanned picture of a log canoe. The picture is from "Men, Ships and
the Sea" which I received as a gift about 40 years ago (!). So I emailed
Nat'l Geo and asked. Their response, which I feel is a good dose of reality
for us web dwellers, was polite but firm. The meat of it was:
Thanks for contacting us.
Please see the attached memo that outlines our basic pricing and
procedures.
(See attached file: Publicdo.doc)
We understand that you are not using the image in advertising, or in a
publication, but it will still need to be licensed (minimum $200.00
fee).
Plus we need to know the page number to even see if we own the image. It
might
be owned by someone else. We just need a little more info (as outlined
in the
memo) in order to help.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "David" <dcassidy@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 6:23 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Magazines
> I am a magazine publisher, and I know of no such provision in US copyright
law.
>
> The "Fair use" provision of copyright law allows an individual to copy
something for their own.
> personal use. So, it's perfectly OK for me to photocopy pages out of
"Small Boats" or "Boats With
> an Open Mind" so I can make notes without damaging the original, frame
them and put them on my
> office walls, etc. It would be illegal for me to make 100 copies and pass
them out to my friends, or
> to post a page from one of those books on my website without permission
(yes, even though "Small
<snip>
In a message dated 3/27/01 9:32:54 PM Central Standard Time,
cha62759@... writes:
cha62759@... writes:
Is this beating a dead horse?
Oh! Moderator! (Greg the Magnificent) Where art Thou now? As the amateur
patent/trademark/copywright "lawyers" propound their uninformed, un-cited
notions of the law? If there is an "off the Bolger" thread that deserves a
mercy killing, this thread is definitely the first candidate, IMHO. I think
that I've been down this road before, without gleaning any information of
reliability or utility.
Bill in MN,
Yours in Hostility
As a writer, I guess I'll put my cent into the discussion. When we sell
articles to magazines, we sign a contract that says what rights we are
assigning to the magazine. These range from one-time North American rights
to what we call "work for hire," which means the magazine owns all rights
for as long as the copyright law allows. I imagine the magazines in question
bought the rights from the designers for a one-time publication. I doubt if
there was a reversion clause in the contracts of those days, but there may
have been. For example, one magazine I write for buys the rights for 60
days, after that they revert to me. To make a long story short, to be
absolutely sure if you had the right to build a boat from an old magazine,
you'd have to know what contract the magazine had with the designer of the
boat. The magazine's rights may have lapsed and the design copyright
reverted to the designer or the designer's estate.
Charlie
----------
articles to magazines, we sign a contract that says what rights we are
assigning to the magazine. These range from one-time North American rights
to what we call "work for hire," which means the magazine owns all rights
for as long as the copyright law allows. I imagine the magazines in question
bought the rights from the designers for a one-time publication. I doubt if
there was a reversion clause in the contracts of those days, but there may
have been. For example, one magazine I write for buys the rights for 60
days, after that they revert to me. To make a long story short, to be
absolutely sure if you had the right to build a boat from an old magazine,
you'd have to know what contract the magazine had with the designer of the
boat. The magazine's rights may have lapsed and the design copyright
reverted to the designer or the designer's estate.
Charlie
----------
>From:cha62759@...
>To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [bolger] Re: Magazines
>Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 03:29:03 -0000
>
> What we are talking about is boat plans published in various
> magazines
> and books. Where plans were published in magazines as "How to"
> articles. If you buy the magazine you have the right to build the
> boat. Most gave you the option of obtaining full size plans for
> nominal sums. $10-$20. The Herreshoff boats that were published in
> the
> "Rudder" series were this sort. You can still get the full size plans
> for what is essentially the cost of printing them. Looking over my
> copies of "How to Build 20 Boats", and "23 Boats You Can Build" there
> is no limitation expressed on how many boats you can build from the
> plans. For all practical purposes these plans are in the public
> domain. Often the drawings are "study plans" with the proviso that if
> you want to build the boat you must buy the plans and be restricted
> to
> one off (usually). You are not buying the paper, you are buying the
> right to build one boat.
>
> I think that copying a text book or magazine article to avoid buying
> it is a violation of the copyright law and under some circumstances
> even copying it after you've bought it is a violation of copyright.
>
> Is this beating a dead horse?
>
>
>
> --- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
>> The author, Don
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bruce Fountain" <B_Fountain@M...>
>> To: <bolger@y...>
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 7:10 PM
>> Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Magazines
>>
>>
>> > dcassidy@t... wrote:
>> > > The "Fair use" provision of copyright law allows an
>> > > individual to copy something for their own.
>> > > personal use. So, it's perfectly OK for me to photocopy pages
>> > > out of "Small Boats" or "Boats With
>> > > an Open Mind" so I can make notes without damaging the
>> > > original, frame them and put them on my
>> > > office walls, etc. It would be illegal for me to make 100
>> > > copies and pass them out to my friends, or
>> > > to post a page from one of those books on my website without
>> > > permission
>> >
>> > Fair enough, I guess this is the loophole we were using at uni
>> > - copying a textbook or magazine article for personal study.
>> > Obviously we weren't re-publishing it.
>> >
>> > It seems a shame that the copyright owner can effectively
>> > suppress material that was once accessible.
>> >
>> > > A good analogy would be -- if you refuse to sell me your car,
>> > > is it OK for me to take it?
>> >
>> > Just to play devil's advocate - if you abandon your boat there
>> > are provisions under which I could claim ownership, at least in
>> > the US ('cos I have followed discussions on this subject in
>> > rec.boats.building). Actually I think both analogies are flawed.
>> >
>> > Who actually owns the copyright anyway? The author or the
>> > publisher (magazine)?
>> >
>> > Bruce
>> >
>> >
>> >
> **********************************************************************
>> > This email and any files transmitted with it from Mi Services
>> > Group may contain information which is
>> > privileged, confidential and protected from disclosure.
>> > If it is not addressed to you, please immediately contact
>> > nzpostmaster@m... and do not use, disclose,
>> > copy, distribute or retain any of it without our authority.
>> >
>> >
> **********************************************************************
>> >
>> >
>> > Bolger rules!!!
>> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
>> > - no flogging dead horses
>> > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>> > - stay on topic and punctuate
>> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester,
> MA,
>> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>> >
>> >
>> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
What we are talking about is boat plans published in various
magazines
and books. Where plans were published in magazines as "How to"
articles. If you buy the magazine you have the right to build the
boat. Most gave you the option of obtaining full size plans for
nominal sums. $10-$20. The Herreshoff boats that were published in
the
"Rudder" series were this sort. You can still get the full size plans
for what is essentially the cost of printing them. Looking over my
copies of "How to Build 20 Boats", and "23 Boats You Can Build" there
is no limitation expressed on how many boats you can build from the
plans. For all practical purposes these plans are in the public
domain. Often the drawings are "study plans" with the proviso that if
you want to build the boat you must buy the plans and be restricted
to
one off (usually). You are not buying the paper, you are buying the
right to build one boat.
I think that copying a text book or magazine article to avoid buying
it is a violation of the copyright law and under some circumstances
even copying it after you've bought it is a violation of copyright.
Is this beating a dead horse?
magazines
and books. Where plans were published in magazines as "How to"
articles. If you buy the magazine you have the right to build the
boat. Most gave you the option of obtaining full size plans for
nominal sums. $10-$20. The Herreshoff boats that were published in
the
"Rudder" series were this sort. You can still get the full size plans
for what is essentially the cost of printing them. Looking over my
copies of "How to Build 20 Boats", and "23 Boats You Can Build" there
is no limitation expressed on how many boats you can build from the
plans. For all practical purposes these plans are in the public
domain. Often the drawings are "study plans" with the proviso that if
you want to build the boat you must buy the plans and be restricted
to
one off (usually). You are not buying the paper, you are buying the
right to build one boat.
I think that copying a text book or magazine article to avoid buying
it is a violation of the copyright law and under some circumstances
even copying it after you've bought it is a violation of copyright.
Is this beating a dead horse?
--- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> The author, Don
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bruce Fountain" <B_Fountain@M...>
> To: <bolger@y...>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 7:10 PM
> Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Magazines
>
>
> > dcassidy@t... wrote:
> > > The "Fair use" provision of copyright law allows an
> > > individual to copy something for their own.
> > > personal use. So, it's perfectly OK for me to photocopy pages
> > > out of "Small Boats" or "Boats With
> > > an Open Mind" so I can make notes without damaging the
> > > original, frame them and put them on my
> > > office walls, etc. It would be illegal for me to make 100
> > > copies and pass them out to my friends, or
> > > to post a page from one of those books on my website without
> > > permission
> >
> > Fair enough, I guess this is the loophole we were using at uni
> > - copying a textbook or magazine article for personal study.
> > Obviously we weren't re-publishing it.
> >
> > It seems a shame that the copyright owner can effectively
> > suppress material that was once accessible.
> >
> > > A good analogy would be -- if you refuse to sell me your car,
> > > is it OK for me to take it?
> >
> > Just to play devil's advocate - if you abandon your boat there
> > are provisions under which I could claim ownership, at least in
> > the US ('cos I have followed discussions on this subject in
> > rec.boats.building). Actually I think both analogies are flawed.
> >
> > Who actually owns the copyright anyway? The author or the
> > publisher (magazine)?
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> >
> >
**********************************************************************
> > This email and any files transmitted with it from Mi Services
> > Group may contain information which is
> > privileged, confidential and protected from disclosure.
> > If it is not addressed to you, please immediately contact
> > nzpostmaster@m... and do not use, disclose,
> > copy, distribute or retain any of it without our authority.
> >
> >
**********************************************************************
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > - no flogging dead horses
> > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester,
MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
The author, Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Fountain" <B_Fountain@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 7:10 PM
Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Magazines
>dcassidy@...wrote:
> > The "Fair use" provision of copyright law allows an
> > individual to copy something for their own.
> > personal use. So, it's perfectly OK for me to photocopy pages
> > out of "Small Boats" or "Boats With
> > an Open Mind" so I can make notes without damaging the
> > original, frame them and put them on my
> > office walls, etc. It would be illegal for me to make 100
> > copies and pass them out to my friends, or
> > to post a page from one of those books on my website without
> > permission
>
> Fair enough, I guess this is the loophole we were using at uni
> - copying a textbook or magazine article for personal study.
> Obviously we weren't re-publishing it.
>
> It seems a shame that the copyright owner can effectively
> suppress material that was once accessible.
>
> > A good analogy would be -- if you refuse to sell me your car,
> > is it OK for me to take it?
>
> Just to play devil's advocate - if you abandon your boat there
> are provisions under which I could claim ownership, at least in
> the US ('cos I have followed discussions on this subject in
> rec.boats.building). Actually I think both analogies are flawed.
>
> Who actually owns the copyright anyway? The author or the
> publisher (magazine)?
>
> Bruce
>
>
> **********************************************************************
> This email and any files transmitted with it from Mi Services
> Group may contain information which is
> privileged, confidential and protected from disclosure.
> If it is not addressed to you, please immediately contact
>nzpostmaster@...and do not use, disclose,
> copy, distribute or retain any of it without our authority.
>
> **********************************************************************
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
dcassidy@...wrote:
- copying a textbook or magazine article for personal study.
Obviously we weren't re-publishing it.
It seems a shame that the copyright owner can effectively
suppress material that was once accessible.
are provisions under which I could claim ownership, at least in
the US ('cos I have followed discussions on this subject in
rec.boats.building). Actually I think both analogies are flawed.
Who actually owns the copyright anyway? The author or the
publisher (magazine)?
Bruce
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it from Mi Services
Group may contain information which is
privileged, confidential and protected from disclosure.
If it is not addressed to you, please immediately contact
nzpostmaster@...and do not use, disclose,
copy, distribute or retain any of it without our authority.
**********************************************************************
> The "Fair use" provision of copyright law allows anFair enough, I guess this is the loophole we were using at uni
> individual to copy something for their own.
> personal use. So, it's perfectly OK for me to photocopy pages
> out of "Small Boats" or "Boats With
> an Open Mind" so I can make notes without damaging the
> original, frame them and put them on my
> office walls, etc. It would be illegal for me to make 100
> copies and pass them out to my friends, or
> to post a page from one of those books on my website without
> permission
- copying a textbook or magazine article for personal study.
Obviously we weren't re-publishing it.
It seems a shame that the copyright owner can effectively
suppress material that was once accessible.
> A good analogy would be -- if you refuse to sell me your car,Just to play devil's advocate - if you abandon your boat there
> is it OK for me to take it?
are provisions under which I could claim ownership, at least in
the US ('cos I have followed discussions on this subject in
rec.boats.building). Actually I think both analogies are flawed.
Who actually owns the copyright anyway? The author or the
publisher (magazine)?
Bruce
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it from Mi Services
Group may contain information which is
privileged, confidential and protected from disclosure.
If it is not addressed to you, please immediately contact
nzpostmaster@...and do not use, disclose,
copy, distribute or retain any of it without our authority.
**********************************************************************
Hi David,
Thanks for clarifying this copyright issue. A great many people are not
aware of the copyright laws in this country. (There are a great many books
covering this subject). If they violate these laws they may find themselves
in a great deal of trouble, this is just a heads up to help people avoid a
lot of problems.
I am an illustrator and a writer ( Not too good, I might point out) and I
have problems with this kind of stuff all the time.
One thing that should be remembered about the rights of the author, is that
no matter what he presents, music, writing, designs or art, that this thing
or object is his property from the minute it is written or drawn by him and
remains so for a long period of time.
He is in possession of these protected rights for the length of his life,
plus 100 years, this is the law.
So even if the author is deceased and gone, someone still own the rights to
his property, and his property is what he has produced with his own mind or
hands. Don
Thanks for clarifying this copyright issue. A great many people are not
aware of the copyright laws in this country. (There are a great many books
covering this subject). If they violate these laws they may find themselves
in a great deal of trouble, this is just a heads up to help people avoid a
lot of problems.
I am an illustrator and a writer ( Not too good, I might point out) and I
have problems with this kind of stuff all the time.
One thing that should be remembered about the rights of the author, is that
no matter what he presents, music, writing, designs or art, that this thing
or object is his property from the minute it is written or drawn by him and
remains so for a long period of time.
He is in possession of these protected rights for the length of his life,
plus 100 years, this is the law.
So even if the author is deceased and gone, someone still own the rights to
his property, and his property is what he has produced with his own mind or
hands. Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "David" <dcassidy@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 8:23 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Magazines
> I am a magazine publisher, and I know of no such provision in US copyright
law.
>
> The "Fair use" provision of copyright law allows an individual to copy
something for their own.
> personal use. So, it's perfectly OK for me to photocopy pages out of
"Small Boats" or "Boats With
> an Open Mind" so I can make notes without damaging the original, frame
them and put them on my
> office walls, etc. It would be illegal for me to make 100 copies and pass
them out to my friends, or
> to post a page from one of those books on my website without permission
(yes, even though "Small
> Boats" is out of print, it changes nothing in Mr. Bolger's copyrights). As
far as I know, there is
> no provision that makes it legal to copy for wide distribution something
that is protected by
> copyright.
>
> A good analogy would be -- if you refuse to sell me your car, is it OK for
me to take it?
>
> David
>
> Bruce Fountain wrote:
>
> > garth wrote:
> > > Anyone know who ultimately owns rights for any of the above
> > > magazines? It would be a labor of love to digitize and post them
> >
> > I am no expert on copyright law, but based on my university
> > experience (more than 10 years ago, and in Australia) there is
> > an out under "reasonable use" which allows you to duplicate a
> > document in its entirety if it is not available through normal
> > channels (ie if it is out of print and the publisher will not
> > provide back issues).
> >
> > Might be worth investigating anyway.
> >
> > Alternatively, an interesting idea for an internet startup would
> > be to buy up the copyright on a whole bunch of magazines (not just
> > boating) and use them as bait for a banner-subsidised website.
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > **********************************************************************
> > This email and any files transmitted with it from Mi Services
> > Group may contain information which is
> > privileged, confidential and protected from disclosure.
> > If it is not addressed to you, please immediately contact
> >nzpostmaster@...and do not use, disclose,
> > copy, distribute or retain any of it without our authority.
> >
> > **********************************************************************
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > - no flogging dead horses
> > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
I am a magazine publisher, and I know of no such provision in US copyright law.
The "Fair use" provision of copyright law allows an individual to copy something for their own.
personal use. So, it's perfectly OK for me to photocopy pages out of "Small Boats" or "Boats With
an Open Mind" so I can make notes without damaging the original, frame them and put them on my
office walls, etc. It would be illegal for me to make 100 copies and pass them out to my friends, or
to post a page from one of those books on my website without permission (yes, even though "Small
Boats" is out of print, it changes nothing in Mr. Bolger's copyrights). As far as I know, there is
no provision that makes it legal to copy for wide distribution something that is protected by
copyright.
A good analogy would be -- if you refuse to sell me your car, is it OK for me to take it?
David
Bruce Fountain wrote:
The "Fair use" provision of copyright law allows an individual to copy something for their own.
personal use. So, it's perfectly OK for me to photocopy pages out of "Small Boats" or "Boats With
an Open Mind" so I can make notes without damaging the original, frame them and put them on my
office walls, etc. It would be illegal for me to make 100 copies and pass them out to my friends, or
to post a page from one of those books on my website without permission (yes, even though "Small
Boats" is out of print, it changes nothing in Mr. Bolger's copyrights). As far as I know, there is
no provision that makes it legal to copy for wide distribution something that is protected by
copyright.
A good analogy would be -- if you refuse to sell me your car, is it OK for me to take it?
David
Bruce Fountain wrote:
> garth wrote:
> > Anyone know who ultimately owns rights for any of the above
> > magazines? It would be a labor of love to digitize and post them
>
> I am no expert on copyright law, but based on my university
> experience (more than 10 years ago, and in Australia) there is
> an out under "reasonable use" which allows you to duplicate a
> document in its entirety if it is not available through normal
> channels (ie if it is out of print and the publisher will not
> provide back issues).
>
> Might be worth investigating anyway.
>
> Alternatively, an interesting idea for an internet startup would
> be to buy up the copyright on a whole bunch of magazines (not just
> boating) and use them as bait for a banner-subsidised website.
>
> Bruce
>
> **********************************************************************
> This email and any files transmitted with it from Mi Services
> Group may contain information which is
> privileged, confidential and protected from disclosure.
> If it is not addressed to you, please immediately contact
>nzpostmaster@...and do not use, disclose,
> copy, distribute or retain any of it without our authority.
>
> **********************************************************************
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
We have been over the subject of copyright several times in various
forums. Basically, if a new design is registered, it is protected
against >building< copies for ten years. Copying the plans for study
(though not for sale) is permitted under the fair use doctrine. Old
designs can't be registered, so anyone can build a replica if he has
the information. If all necessary building information has been
published, anyone is entitled to use it to build. The only reasons
to purchase published plans separately are to have prints of a
convenient scale and to pay tribute to a designer (especially if you
may want to consult him during the building process). If you obtain
unpublished plans from a designer, you are likely to have a contract
that licenses them for the construction of one hull.
Complete building plans for Nereia, Rozinante, H-28, Marco Polo, and
other designs of L. Francis Herreshoff that appeared in "Rudder"
magazine are published (small-scale) in "Sensible Cruising Designs"
(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-
/books/0070283648/similarities/ref%3Dpm%5Fdp%5Fln%5Fb%5F10/103-
3656573-7010246)
together with study plans of many other designs by the late master.
The following information was posted byTHAschman@...on the
website of the H-28 class association:
............................................................
Plans for most L. Francis Herreshoff designs are now kept by:
Ships Plans Division
Mystic Seaport
PO Box 6000
Mystic CT 06355-0990
Telephone: 860-572-0711 and ask for Ships' Plans Division,
or try 860-572-5360.
I spoke with the Ships' Plans Division on 11/6/2000. They said that
for H-28, design no. 80, there are about 12 sheets. They'll send you
a list of the sheets, from which you can order which ones you want.
You may not copy or distribute the plans in any way, but you may
build from them. Mystic Seaport acts as a library or museum, not a
designer or naval architect, which means that they take no
responsibility for what you build,and can provide no advice or
customer support. The cost is $10 per sheet, plus 15% shipping, and
$2 extra if you want the plans shipped rolled in a tube.
forums. Basically, if a new design is registered, it is protected
against >building< copies for ten years. Copying the plans for study
(though not for sale) is permitted under the fair use doctrine. Old
designs can't be registered, so anyone can build a replica if he has
the information. If all necessary building information has been
published, anyone is entitled to use it to build. The only reasons
to purchase published plans separately are to have prints of a
convenient scale and to pay tribute to a designer (especially if you
may want to consult him during the building process). If you obtain
unpublished plans from a designer, you are likely to have a contract
that licenses them for the construction of one hull.
Complete building plans for Nereia, Rozinante, H-28, Marco Polo, and
other designs of L. Francis Herreshoff that appeared in "Rudder"
magazine are published (small-scale) in "Sensible Cruising Designs"
(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-
/books/0070283648/similarities/ref%3Dpm%5Fdp%5Fln%5Fb%5F10/103-
3656573-7010246)
together with study plans of many other designs by the late master.
The following information was posted byTHAschman@...on the
website of the H-28 class association:
............................................................
Plans for most L. Francis Herreshoff designs are now kept by:
Ships Plans Division
Mystic Seaport
PO Box 6000
Mystic CT 06355-0990
Telephone: 860-572-0711 and ask for Ships' Plans Division,
or try 860-572-5360.
I spoke with the Ships' Plans Division on 11/6/2000. They said that
for H-28, design no. 80, there are about 12 sheets. They'll send you
a list of the sheets, from which you can order which ones you want.
You may not copy or distribute the plans in any way, but you may
build from them. Mystic Seaport acts as a library or museum, not a
designer or naval architect, which means that they take no
responsibility for what you build,and can provide no advice or
customer support. The cost is $10 per sheet, plus 15% shipping, and
$2 extra if you want the plans shipped rolled in a tube.
> I am no expert on copyright law, but based on my universityThanks, Bruce -- that's a very interesting angle. It's exactly what
> experience (more than 10 years ago, and in Australia) there is
> an out under "reasonable use" which allows you to duplicate a
> document in its entirety if it is not available through normal
> channels (ie if it is out of print and the publisher will not
> provide back issues).
I'd like to accomplish -- setting up a website to serve as a
universal library for magazine collections that might exist in only
two or three locations. For instance, I know Mystic Seaport has a
complete (or nearly so) collection of The Rudder, and I think you can
even go there and look at it. But what about the people who can't get
there, or who want to idly flip the pages and scan the contents while
dreaming up their next boat project?
Well, this is getting a bit too non-Bolger, so I'll stop here.
I'll let you know if I ever make headway with this quixotic scheme.
Information wants to be free!
All best,
Garth
garth wrote:
experience (more than 10 years ago, and in Australia) there is
an out under "reasonable use" which allows you to duplicate a
document in its entirety if it is not available through normal
channels (ie if it is out of print and the publisher will not
provide back issues).
Might be worth investigating anyway.
Alternatively, an interesting idea for an internet startup would
be to buy up the copyright on a whole bunch of magazines (not just
boating) and use them as bait for a banner-subsidised website.
Bruce
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it from Mi Services
Group may contain information which is
privileged, confidential and protected from disclosure.
If it is not addressed to you, please immediately contact
nzpostmaster@...and do not use, disclose,
copy, distribute or retain any of it without our authority.
**********************************************************************
> Anyone know who ultimately owns rights for any of the aboveI am no expert on copyright law, but based on my university
> magazines? It would be a labor of love to digitize and post them
experience (more than 10 years ago, and in Australia) there is
an out under "reasonable use" which allows you to duplicate a
document in its entirety if it is not available through normal
channels (ie if it is out of print and the publisher will not
provide back issues).
Might be worth investigating anyway.
Alternatively, an interesting idea for an internet startup would
be to buy up the copyright on a whole bunch of magazines (not just
boating) and use them as bait for a banner-subsidised website.
Bruce
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it from Mi Services
Group may contain information which is
privileged, confidential and protected from disclosure.
If it is not addressed to you, please immediately contact
nzpostmaster@...and do not use, disclose,
copy, distribute or retain any of it without our authority.
**********************************************************************
Better yet ask Mr Bolger, he would know.
--- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
> To find out who has the rights to various Herreshoff plans and
> patterns you may want to try the Herreshoff Museum in Bristol Rhode
> Island. I do not have their phone #, but it should not be too
> difficult to find.
>
> Good Luck,
> David Jost
>
> > > > I came across a brief reference in a cruising book to a guy
who
> > had
> > > > built a 35' (?) Nereiad-class cruiser, from "complete plans
and
> > > > construction details found in The Rudder magazine" back in the
> > > > Sixties, and I thought, how awesome to have such plans dropped
in
> > > > your lap. Wouldn't it be great if we could secure rights to
put
> > all
> > >
To find out who has the rights to various Herreshoff plans and
patterns you may want to try the Herreshoff Museum in Bristol Rhode
Island. I do not have their phone #, but it should not be too
difficult to find.
Good Luck,
David Jost
patterns you may want to try the Herreshoff Museum in Bristol Rhode
Island. I do not have their phone #, but it should not be too
difficult to find.
Good Luck,
David Jost
> > > I came across a brief reference in a cruising book to a guy who
> had
> > > built a 35' (?) Nereiad-class cruiser, from "complete plans and
> > > construction details found in The Rudder magazine" back in the
> > > Sixties, and I thought, how awesome to have such plans dropped in
> > > your lap. Wouldn't it be great if we could secure rights to put
> all
> >
--- In bolger@e..., cha62759@t... wrote:
> "Nereia" was published in "Rudder" as part of the "How to Build..."reduced
> series I believe in the 50's. It has been republished in the
> book "Sensible Cruising Designs" by L. Francis Herreshoff. All the
> information that's needed to build the boat is there though at
> scale. There is also a pram tender for "Nereia" published in thebook.
> I built this pram a few years ago. "Rudder" became "Sea" some yearsAfter
> ago and then went belly up. ABC as you mentioned apparently got the
> rights. I tried to get plans for Al Mason's "Ostkust" which was
> published in "How to Build 20 Boats" then published by Fawcett.
> a year or so of phone calls letters etc I gave up. I had theannually
> right publishers and they had the plans however they were just
> not interested in issueing them.There are a lot of "How to Build 20
> Boats" floating around (no pun intended). They were published
> for a while. "Popular Mechanix" published a similar magazine as didhad
> "Mechanics Illustrated". I have a few of these. Most of the small
> boats are not of much interest today because of the traditional
> construction and dated design however they are a lot of fun to look
> through. SBJ of course was retitled and has become more or less a
> manufacturers puff piece.
>
>
>
>
> --- In bolger@y..., garth@b... wrote:
> > I've been wondering about these out-of-business boatbuilding
> > magazines -- esp. The Rudder, SBJ, and Amateur Boat Building.
> >
> > I came across a brief reference in a cruising book to a guy who
> > built a 35' (?) Nereiad-class cruiser, from "complete plans andall
> > construction details found in The Rudder magazine" back in the
> > Sixties, and I thought, how awesome to have such plans dropped in
> > your lap. Wouldn't it be great if we could secure rights to put
> > these archival pages up on the web?folded,
> >
> > The rights probably were deemed worthless when the magazines
> > and are probably legally controlled by a now-defunct company.
> (Unless
> > rights were bought by some larger successor.)
> >
> > Anyone know who ultimately owns rights for any of the above
> > magazines? It would be a labor of love to digitize and post them.
> >
> > Always ready with a hare-brained scheme,
>
--- In bolger@e..., cha62759@t... wrote:
> "Nereia" was published in "Rudder" as part of the "How to Build..."reduced
> series I believe in the 50's. It has been republished in the
> book "Sensible Cruising Designs" by L. Francis Herreshoff. All the
> information that's needed to build the boat is there though at
> scale. There is also a pram tender for "Nereia" published in thebook.
> I built this pram a few years ago. "Rudder" became "Sea" some yearsAfter
> ago and then went belly up. ABC as you mentioned apparently got the
> rights. I tried to get plans for Al Mason's "Ostkust" which was
> published in "How to Build 20 Boats" then published by Fawcett.
> a year or so of phone calls letters etc I gave up. I had theannually
> right publishers and they had the plans however they were just
> not interested in issueing them.There are a lot of "How to Build 20
> Boats" floating around (no pun intended). They were published
> for a while. "Popular Mechanix" published a similar magazine as didhad
> "Mechanics Illustrated". I have a few of these. Most of the small
> boats are not of much interest today because of the traditional
> construction and dated design however they are a lot of fun to look
> through. SBJ of course was retitled and has become more or less a
> manufacturers puff piece.
>
>
>
>
> --- In bolger@y..., garth@b... wrote:
> > I've been wondering about these out-of-business boatbuilding
> > magazines -- esp. The Rudder, SBJ, and Amateur Boat Building.
> >
> > I came across a brief reference in a cruising book to a guy who
> > built a 35' (?) Nereiad-class cruiser, from "complete plans andall
> > construction details found in The Rudder magazine" back in the
> > Sixties, and I thought, how awesome to have such plans dropped in
> > your lap. Wouldn't it be great if we could secure rights to put
> > these archival pages up on the web?folded,
> >
> > The rights probably were deemed worthless when the magazines
> > and are probably legally controlled by a now-defunct company.
> (Unless
> > rights were bought by some larger successor.)
> >
> > Anyone know who ultimately owns rights for any of the above
> > magazines? It would be a labor of love to digitize and post them.
> >
> > Always ready with a hare-brained scheme,
>
"Nereia" was published in "Rudder" as part of the "How to Build..."
series I believe in the 50's. It has been republished in the
book "Sensible Cruising Designs" by L. Francis Herreshoff. All the
information that's needed to build the boat is there though at reduced
scale. There is also a pram tender for "Nereia" published in the book.
I built this pram a few years ago. "Rudder" became "Sea" some years
ago and then went belly up. ABC as you mentioned apparently got the
rights. I tried to get plans for Al Mason's "Ostkust" which was
published in "How to Build 20 Boats" then published by Fawcett. After
a year or so of phone calls letters etc I gave up. I had the
right publishers and they had the plans however they were just
not interested in issueing them.There are a lot of "How to Build 20
Boats" floating around (no pun intended). They were published annually
for a while. "Popular Mechanix" published a similar magazine as did
"Mechanics Illustrated". I have a few of these. Most of the small
boats are not of much interest today because of the traditional
construction and dated design however they are a lot of fun to look
through. SBJ of course was retitled and has become more or less a
manufacturers puff piece.
series I believe in the 50's. It has been republished in the
book "Sensible Cruising Designs" by L. Francis Herreshoff. All the
information that's needed to build the boat is there though at reduced
scale. There is also a pram tender for "Nereia" published in the book.
I built this pram a few years ago. "Rudder" became "Sea" some years
ago and then went belly up. ABC as you mentioned apparently got the
rights. I tried to get plans for Al Mason's "Ostkust" which was
published in "How to Build 20 Boats" then published by Fawcett. After
a year or so of phone calls letters etc I gave up. I had the
right publishers and they had the plans however they were just
not interested in issueing them.There are a lot of "How to Build 20
Boats" floating around (no pun intended). They were published annually
for a while. "Popular Mechanix" published a similar magazine as did
"Mechanics Illustrated". I have a few of these. Most of the small
boats are not of much interest today because of the traditional
construction and dated design however they are a lot of fun to look
through. SBJ of course was retitled and has become more or less a
manufacturers puff piece.
--- In bolger@y..., garth@b... wrote:
> I've been wondering about these out-of-business boatbuilding
> magazines -- esp. The Rudder, SBJ, and Amateur Boat Building.
>
> I came across a brief reference in a cruising book to a guy who had
> built a 35' (?) Nereiad-class cruiser, from "complete plans and
> construction details found in The Rudder magazine" back in the
> Sixties, and I thought, how awesome to have such plans dropped in
> your lap. Wouldn't it be great if we could secure rights to put all
> these archival pages up on the web?
>
> The rights probably were deemed worthless when the magazines folded,
> and are probably legally controlled by a now-defunct company.
(Unless
> rights were bought by some larger successor.)
>
> Anyone know who ultimately owns rights for any of the above
> magazines? It would be a labor of love to digitize and post them.
>
> Always ready with a hare-brained scheme,
> Garth
Garthafter several trys over several years I finaly found out what
happened to a magizine I was looking for "New Shelter By
rodale" finaly after a couple of e mails to their customer service
they told me that they had sold it in 81 and it had been remained
practical home owner and finaly folded a couple of years latter.
the company they sold it to was ABC who the heck would you
ask there about a magizine gone out of print?
Best wishes
Jeffery
happened to a magizine I was looking for "New Shelter By
rodale" finaly after a couple of e mails to their customer service
they told me that they had sold it in 81 and it had been remained
practical home owner and finaly folded a couple of years latter.
the company they sold it to was ABC who the heck would you
ask there about a magizine gone out of print?
Best wishes
Jeffery
--- In bolger@y..., garth@b... wrote:
> I've been wondering about these out-of-business boatbuilding
> magazines -- esp. The Rudder, SBJ, and Amateur Boat
Building.
>
> I came across a brief reference in a cruising book to a guy who
had
> built a 35' (?) Nereiad-class cruiser, from "complete plans and
> construction details found in The Rudder magazine" back in
the
> Sixties, and I thought, how awesome to have such plans
dropped in
> your lap. Wouldn't it be great if we could secure rights to put all
> these archival pages up on the web?
>
> The rights probably were deemed worthless when the
magazines folded,
> and are probably legally controlled by a now-defunct company.
(Unless
> rights were bought by some larger successor.)
>
> Anyone know who ultimately owns rights for any of the above
> magazines? It would be a labor of love to digitize and post
them.
>
> Always ready with a hare-brained scheme,
> Garth
I've been wondering about these out-of-business boatbuilding
magazines -- esp. The Rudder, SBJ, and Amateur Boat Building.
I came across a brief reference in a cruising book to a guy who had
built a 35' (?) Nereiad-class cruiser, from "complete plans and
construction details found in The Rudder magazine" back in the
Sixties, and I thought, how awesome to have such plans dropped in
your lap. Wouldn't it be great if we could secure rights to put all
these archival pages up on the web?
The rights probably were deemed worthless when the magazines folded,
and are probably legally controlled by a now-defunct company. (Unless
rights were bought by some larger successor.)
Anyone know who ultimately owns rights for any of the above
magazines? It would be a labor of love to digitize and post them.
Always ready with a hare-brained scheme,
Garth
magazines -- esp. The Rudder, SBJ, and Amateur Boat Building.
I came across a brief reference in a cruising book to a guy who had
built a 35' (?) Nereiad-class cruiser, from "complete plans and
construction details found in The Rudder magazine" back in the
Sixties, and I thought, how awesome to have such plans dropped in
your lap. Wouldn't it be great if we could secure rights to put all
these archival pages up on the web?
The rights probably were deemed worthless when the magazines folded,
and are probably legally controlled by a now-defunct company. (Unless
rights were bought by some larger successor.)
Anyone know who ultimately owns rights for any of the above
magazines? It would be a labor of love to digitize and post them.
Always ready with a hare-brained scheme,
Garth
They are a victim of the rolling black-outs in California. Issue #8 is at
the PO but has been delayed by the power crisis. SCA is going great guns!
Paul
the PO but has been delayed by the power crisis. SCA is going great guns!
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: <hwal@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Magazines
> In a message dated 3/22/2001 10:57:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>pesterle@...writes:
>
> << By all means, hang on to them! I, sadly, gave away all of my SBJ's. I
had
> to
> go out to e-Bay and buy some to write a SBJ retrospective for Small Craft
> Advisor Magazine! >>
> I've been watching for the arrival of the next Small Craft Advisor -
They're
> still in business right? Have I just misgauged the time for it's arrival?
> Steve
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
In a message dated 3/22/2001 10:57:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,
pesterle@...writes:
<< By all means, hang on to them! I, sadly, gave away all of my SBJ's. I had
to
go out to e-Bay and buy some to write a SBJ retrospective for Small Craft
Advisor Magazine! >>
I've been watching for the arrival of the next Small Craft Advisor - They're
still in business right? Have I just misgauged the time for it's arrival?
Steve
pesterle@...writes:
<< By all means, hang on to them! I, sadly, gave away all of my SBJ's. I had
to
go out to e-Bay and buy some to write a SBJ retrospective for Small Craft
Advisor Magazine! >>
I've been watching for the arrival of the next Small Craft Advisor - They're
still in business right? Have I just misgauged the time for it's arrival?
Steve
By all means, hang on to them! I, sadly, gave away all of my SBJ's. I had to
go out to e-Bay and buy some to write a SBJ retrospective for Small Craft
Advisor Magazine! The is an active market place for older magazines on
e-Bay. I've sold some old, large format, Analog Magazines and purchased some
specific Mother Earth News magazines.
Paul W. Esterle
Capt'n Pauley Video Productions
423.989.3159
S/V Bryn Awel, Columbia 10.7
Bristol, Tenn. USA
http://www.captnpauley.bigstep.com
http://pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
go out to e-Bay and buy some to write a SBJ retrospective for Small Craft
Advisor Magazine! The is an active market place for older magazines on
e-Bay. I've sold some old, large format, Analog Magazines and purchased some
specific Mother Earth News magazines.
Paul W. Esterle
Capt'n Pauley Video Productions
423.989.3159
S/V Bryn Awel, Columbia 10.7
Bristol, Tenn. USA
http://www.captnpauley.bigstep.com
http://pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
Paul,
Thank you for your posting about the magazines. It prompted me
to go downstairs and check to see what I actually have accumulated
throughout the years. I have most of the Small Boat Journals, and I
believe I have all of the WoodenBoat magazines back to 1981! You
have given me reason to hang on to these for a longer period of time.
Through this excercise, I also came to the conclusion that it
has been all of my reading of these magazines that convinced me to
build Micro.
Now, if only the temperature would cooperate!
DAvid Jost
Thank you for your posting about the magazines. It prompted me
to go downstairs and check to see what I actually have accumulated
throughout the years. I have most of the Small Boat Journals, and I
believe I have all of the WoodenBoat magazines back to 1981! You
have given me reason to hang on to these for a longer period of time.
Through this excercise, I also came to the conclusion that it
has been all of my reading of these magazines that convinced me to
build Micro.
Now, if only the temperature would cooperate!
DAvid Jost
> Paul W. EsterleVol.
> Capt'n Pauley Video Productions
> 423.989.3159
> S/V Bryn Awel, Columbia 10.7
> Bristol, Tenn. USA
>http://www.captnpauley.bigstep.com
>http://pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <j.c.ewing@h...>
> To: <bolger@y...>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 5:01 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Magazines
>
>
> > --- In bolger@y..., pateson@c... wrote:
> > >
> > > The magazine I most miss is "The Small Boat Journal"
> > > One of the sadest days of my life was when it went from "Small
> > > Boat Journal" to "Metal Flake Journal"
> > > I still have a vol. 1 no. 11 June 1980. Large fomat 11"x 11"
> > > version.
> >
> > Small Boat Journal was good, wasn't it! I have the large-format
> > 1, No. 6 of January, 1980 -- with Phil Bolger writing about hissmaller
> > Design # 369, a 28'9" Shoal-Draft Whaler Ketch. In the later,
> > format I have Number 41 (with PCB cartoon #17, Waterborne Camper),(with
> > Number 66 (with PCB cartoon #41, Little Cutter) and Number 71
> > PCB's cartoon for a 'pirate-style' Children's Racer).Gloucester, MA,
> >
> > I sure wish I had bought the magazine more frequently :-(
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > - no flogging dead horses
> > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >
> >
Good to see you finally made it here.
Jim Betts is the designer of the GP-16
Winner of my "Perfect Boat" award.
Nice guy too.
Thanks Jim
Pat
Jim Betts is the designer of the GP-16
Winner of my "Perfect Boat" award.
Nice guy too.
Thanks Jim
Pat
--- In bolger@e..., pointpubco@a... wrote:
> I sold it to a new group in 1969 and it went out of biz after a
year
> or so. Pretty much replaced by BoatBuilder and WoodenBoat magazines.
> During its some six years, I ran many Bolger plans. Had building
> centers in about six cities.
> Jim Bet
I believe I have most of them! I never thought of them as being
collectors items. Maybe this will make up for the EMC stock I sold
much, much, too early. :-)
David Jost
collectors items. Maybe this will make up for the EMC stock I sold
much, much, too early. :-)
David Jost
> >Gloucester, MA,
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > - no flogging dead horses
> > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >
> >
Keep an eye on e-Bay. I've been able to pick us several issues there, all
reasonably priced.
Paul W. Esterle
Capt'n Pauley Video Productions
423.989.3159
S/V Bryn Awel, Columbia 10.7
Bristol, Tenn. USA
http://www.captnpauley.bigstep.com
http://pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
reasonably priced.
Paul W. Esterle
Capt'n Pauley Video Productions
423.989.3159
S/V Bryn Awel, Columbia 10.7
Bristol, Tenn. USA
http://www.captnpauley.bigstep.com
http://pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
----- Original Message -----
From: <j.c.ewing@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 5:01 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Magazines
> --- In bolger@y..., pateson@c... wrote:
> >
> > The magazine I most miss is "The Small Boat Journal"
> > One of the sadest days of my life was when it went from "Small
> > Boat Journal" to "Metal Flake Journal"
> > I still have a vol. 1 no. 11 June 1980. Large fomat 11"x 11"
> > version.
>
> Small Boat Journal was good, wasn't it! I have the large-format Vol.
> 1, No. 6 of January, 1980 -- with Phil Bolger writing about his
> Design # 369, a 28'9" Shoal-Draft Whaler Ketch. In the later, smaller
> format I have Number 41 (with PCB cartoon #17, Waterborne Camper),
> Number 66 (with PCB cartoon #41, Little Cutter) and Number 71 (with
> PCB's cartoon for a 'pirate-style' Children's Racer).
>
> I sure wish I had bought the magazine more frequently :-(
>
> John
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
--- In bolger@y..., pateson@c... wrote:
1, No. 6 of January, 1980 -- with Phil Bolger writing about his
Design # 369, a 28'9" Shoal-Draft Whaler Ketch. In the later, smaller
format I have Number 41 (with PCB cartoon #17, Waterborne Camper),
Number 66 (with PCB cartoon #41, Little Cutter) and Number 71 (with
PCB's cartoon for a 'pirate-style' Children's Racer).
I sure wish I had bought the magazine more frequently :-(
John
>Small Boat Journal was good, wasn't it! I have the large-format Vol.
> The magazine I most miss is "The Small Boat Journal"
> One of the sadest days of my life was when it went from "Small
> Boat Journal" to "Metal Flake Journal"
> I still have a vol. 1 no. 11 June 1980. Large fomat 11"x 11"
> version.
1, No. 6 of January, 1980 -- with Phil Bolger writing about his
Design # 369, a 28'9" Shoal-Draft Whaler Ketch. In the later, smaller
format I have Number 41 (with PCB cartoon #17, Waterborne Camper),
Number 66 (with PCB cartoon #41, Little Cutter) and Number 71 (with
PCB's cartoon for a 'pirate-style' Children's Racer).
I sure wish I had bought the magazine more frequently :-(
John
I sold it to a new group in 1969 and it went out of biz after a year
or so. Pretty much replaced by BoatBuilder and WoodenBoat magazines.
During its some six years, I ran many Bolger plans. Had building
centers in about six cities.
Jim Bet
or so. Pretty much replaced by BoatBuilder and WoodenBoat magazines.
During its some six years, I ran many Bolger plans. Had building
centers in about six cities.
Jim Bet
> I may may still be wrong, but seems like Bolger did designThere are a few done by Bolger. There's a "Surmaster" in varoius
> some of "The Texas dory boats". If not, somebody there borrrowed
> heavily from his designs.
>
lengths; 19',21', 23'. A 17' "Shoals Runner" and couple of others. I
don't have my catalog from Down East Dories with me right now. Those
are the ones I can remember at the moment. One Bolger design in that
catalog has very "swoopy" lines. It almost looks distorted. i'll get
the particulars and see if I can attach a scan of it when I get home
tomorrow.
Bruce
I used to think 72 was an "ol' fart", but that ain't so old anymore.
Not there for a few more years but I still remember,
"Never trust anybody over 30."
Had to change that tune a looong time ago.
I may may still be wrong, but seems like Bolger did design
some of "The Texas dory boats". If not, somebody there borrrowed
heavily from his designs.
The magazine I most miss is "The Small Boat Journal"
One of the sadest days of my life was when it went from "Small
Boat Journal" to "Metal Flake Journal"
I still have a vol. 1 no. 11 June 1980. Large fomat 11"x 11"
version.
After all my "Perfect Boat" stuff, the last couple of weeks, there it
is on pg.35 June 1980.
"In Search Of the Perfect Boat". Guess things never change.
T.N.F.Shaw chose the 16'6"x 7'3"x 9" Fibeglass Catboat with 165 sq.
ft. of sail. "Sun Cat" by Clark Mills.
Very nice Magazine, lots of useful information, and where I was first
introduced to Philip Bolger, and a whole new way of looking at boats.
Mostly "Keep It Simple Stupid" stuff.
Pat
Not there for a few more years but I still remember,
"Never trust anybody over 30."
Had to change that tune a looong time ago.
I may may still be wrong, but seems like Bolger did design
some of "The Texas dory boats". If not, somebody there borrrowed
heavily from his designs.
The magazine I most miss is "The Small Boat Journal"
One of the sadest days of my life was when it went from "Small
Boat Journal" to "Metal Flake Journal"
I still have a vol. 1 no. 11 June 1980. Large fomat 11"x 11"
version.
After all my "Perfect Boat" stuff, the last couple of weeks, there it
is on pg.35 June 1980.
"In Search Of the Perfect Boat". Guess things never change.
T.N.F.Shaw chose the 16'6"x 7'3"x 9" Fibeglass Catboat with 165 sq.
ft. of sail. "Sun Cat" by Clark Mills.
Very nice Magazine, lots of useful information, and where I was first
introduced to Philip Bolger, and a whole new way of looking at boats.
Mostly "Keep It Simple Stupid" stuff.
Pat
--- In bolger@e..., pointpubco@a... wrote:
> As an "old fart," (age 72) I belive most of the Capt. Jim Orwell
boats
> were designed by Victory Harrasty. Long since dead. I was then
> publisher of Amateur Boat Building magazine. (Also long dead.) Jim
> Bet
Victor Harrasty. He was the designer of a double-ended plywood cutter that I
fell in love with way back in 1965. Back then, Victor said the hull could be
built by amateurs for about $1000 in materials. Never did buy the plans, but
I was living in the Rocky mountains at the time and was still going to
college. Closest I got to boating was Rudder magazine. Well, I did get a
canoe out on the lake once in a while. Anyway, thanks for jogging my memory.
Charlie
fell in love with way back in 1965. Back then, Victor said the hull could be
built by amateurs for about $1000 in materials. Never did buy the plans, but
I was living in the Rocky mountains at the time and was still going to
college. Closest I got to boating was Rudder magazine. Well, I did get a
canoe out on the lake once in a while. Anyway, thanks for jogging my memory.
Charlie
> As an "old fart," (age 72) I belive most of the Capt. Jim Orwell boats
> were designed by Victory Harrasty. Long since dead. I was then
> publisher of Amateur Boat Building magazine. (Also long dead.) Jim
> Bet
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> I was then publisher of Amateur Boat Building magazine.Jim --
> (Also long dead.) Jim Bet
What ever happened to Amateur Boat Building Magazine? Were its rights
sold off to someone else, or is this something we Bolger Builders
could digitize and put up on the web for the good of humanity?
All best,
Garth
As an "old fart," (age 72) I belive most of the Capt. Jim Orwell boats
were designed by Victory Harrasty. Long since dead. I was then
publisher of Amateur Boat Building magazine. (Also long dead.) Jim
Bet
were designed by Victory Harrasty. Long since dead. I was then
publisher of Amateur Boat Building magazine. (Also long dead.) Jim
Bet