Re: [bolger] Re: Used outboards advice?
In a message dated 03/28/2001 7:<BR18:<BR56 PM
Eastern Standard ,cadbury@...writes:> You will notice a post
from a "Mercury"
Max is correct about older Mercs not being for the faint of heart. They are
MUCH higher quality engines, from the materials standpoint. However, they
have lots more little pieces to go wrong and those pieces can go wrong in
some of the most interesting ways :-)
I love the ole Mersc, but I made an observation 20 years ago that stands true
today. I've towed dozens of stranded boaters back to the dock. to this day,
every stinking one of them had a Merc on the transom :-)
I got a kick out of max calling Karl a madman. It's true!!!!
Cheers/Don
send those old Mercs to me for proper disposal!!!
Eastern Standard ,cadbury@...writes:> You will notice a post
from a "Mercury"
> lover- as I said, there are many collectorsJohn,
> of 50's Mercuries. But I don't consider these
> engines to be real good candidates for simple-to-
> maintain reliable everyday powerplants.
> For example, I would never choose my Mercury-
> built Western Auto WN-7A (which came from the
> factory with a Mark 20H crankshaft) over a good
> ole Johnson or Evinrude for a leasurly cruise
> on the lake.
Max is correct about older Mercs not being for the faint of heart. They are
MUCH higher quality engines, from the materials standpoint. However, they
have lots more little pieces to go wrong and those pieces can go wrong in
some of the most interesting ways :-)
I love the ole Mersc, but I made an observation 20 years ago that stands true
today. I've towed dozens of stranded boaters back to the dock. to this day,
every stinking one of them had a Merc on the transom :-)
I got a kick out of max calling Karl a madman. It's true!!!!
Cheers/Don
send those old Mercs to me for proper disposal!!!
--- In bolger@y..., cadbury@s... wrote:
You can view the schedule here, assuming this works:
http://www.aomci.org/events/
> --- In bolger@y..., cadbury@s... wrote:For some reason the E-mail address would not post-
> > --- In bolger@y..., <jmbell@m...> wrote:
> > > Wow, Max! Thanks for a really informative post. I'll
> > > see if I can find an antique otuboard meet near me.
> > >
> > > My AF4 project is moving very rapidly. I've got about
> > > 5 hours in the project so far in two work sessions. So
> > > far, I've got all three permanent bulkheads built.
> > > I've still got to build the transom and the two
> > > temporary forms. After that all that remains is
> > > butting and cutting out the sides, then we go 3D. I'm
> > > working hard to have it ready before the Midwest
> > > Messabout.
> > >
> > > One question before I build the transom. As designed,
> > > it seems a little flimsy: 3/8" ply with a 2x8 motor
> > > board. I think I'm going to beef it up by laminating
> > > it out of two layers of 1/2" ply and include the 1-1/2
> > > motor board as specified. How big is the standard jaw
> > > opening on an outboard? Can most outboards handle a
> > > 2-1/2" thick transom?
> > >
> > > JB in Georgia
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> > >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=t
> >
> >
> > Good evening:
> >
> > A 2 1/2 inch transom is going to be WAY too thick.
> > I checked the clamp brackets on one old 18 hp, and
> > 2 inches is all it can handle, if even that.
> >
> > I would consider 2 layers of 1/2" ply plus a
> > 1 X 8, which would give you about 1 3/4, leaving
> > a little space for metal plates or some sort
> > of sacrificial pads to take the wear and tear
> > of the clamping brackets.
> >
> > My transom is two layers of 5/8" with a single
> > outer layer of 5.2 mm luan (3/16"). I have 1/8"
> > aluminum plates inside and out for the clamps
> > to bear on, and there is really very little room
> > left under the brackets.
> >
> > Keep in mind that the bottom of the splash
> > well adds much reinforcement to the transom. I
> > glued, screwed, and taped my bottom in place.
> > If it ever needs to be removed for access to
> > the underside, I will cut it out leaving a
> > 2 inch wide "web frame" in place around the
> > perimeter, and fabricate a new bottom to
> > bolt down on top of the web frame.
> >
> > You will notice a post from a "Mercury"
> > lover- as I said, there are many collectors
> > of 50's Mercuries. But I don't consider these
> > engines to be real good candidates for simple-to-
> > maintain reliable everyday powerplants.
> > For example, I would never choose my Mercury-
> > built Western Auto WN-7A (which came from the
> > factory with a Mark 20H crankshaft) over a good
> > ole Johnson or Evinrude for a leasurly cruise
> > on the lake.
> >
> > concerning P L Premium, I used a whole bunch
> > of the stuff on my boat, somewhere around 15 or 16
> > tubes. Also used about 5 lbs of Weldwood, and a
> > few cups of epoxy. The P L seems to have worked
> > OK, except on butt plates where is was sometimes
> > very hard to draw the pieces together flush,
> > the glue being so thick.
> >
> > Picked up a new boat trailer on Friday- made
> > a deal with the dealer; by picking up my own
> > trailer at the factory, along with two more trailers
> > (stacked on top of mine) for the dealer's stock,
> > I got a real good deal.
> >
> > Maiden voyage probably weekend after next.
> >
> > By the way, Jim had the protype AF4 in the water
> > 90 days after beginning- if I had had warm weather,
> > and had not been making changes in the design, I
> > could have had mine in the water in the same 90
> > days. Since you've built boats before, I would bet
> > that you can beat that time.
> >
> > Later
> >
> >
> > Max
>
>
>
> P. S. Antique outboard motor meet @ Lake Lanier April 14th.
> For more info, Klwinter@r...
You can view the schedule here, assuming this works:
http://www.aomci.org/events/
--- In bolger@y..., cadbury@s... wrote:
For more info,Klwinter@...
> --- In bolger@y..., <jmbell@m...> wrote:P. S. Antique outboard motor meet @ Lake Lanier April 14th.
> > Wow, Max! Thanks for a really informative post. I'll
> > see if I can find an antique otuboard meet near me.
> >
> > My AF4 project is moving very rapidly. I've got about
> > 5 hours in the project so far in two work sessions. So
> > far, I've got all three permanent bulkheads built.
> > I've still got to build the transom and the two
> > temporary forms. After that all that remains is
> > butting and cutting out the sides, then we go 3D. I'm
> > working hard to have it ready before the Midwest
> > Messabout.
> >
> > One question before I build the transom. As designed,
> > it seems a little flimsy: 3/8" ply with a 2x8 motor
> > board. I think I'm going to beef it up by laminating
> > it out of two layers of 1/2" ply and include the 1-1/2
> > motor board as specified. How big is the standard jaw
> > opening on an outboard? Can most outboards handle a
> > 2-1/2" thick transom?
> >
> > JB in Georgia
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=t
>
>
> Good evening:
>
> A 2 1/2 inch transom is going to be WAY too thick.
> I checked the clamp brackets on one old 18 hp, and
> 2 inches is all it can handle, if even that.
>
> I would consider 2 layers of 1/2" ply plus a
> 1 X 8, which would give you about 1 3/4, leaving
> a little space for metal plates or some sort
> of sacrificial pads to take the wear and tear
> of the clamping brackets.
>
> My transom is two layers of 5/8" with a single
> outer layer of 5.2 mm luan (3/16"). I have 1/8"
> aluminum plates inside and out for the clamps
> to bear on, and there is really very little room
> left under the brackets.
>
> Keep in mind that the bottom of the splash
> well adds much reinforcement to the transom. I
> glued, screwed, and taped my bottom in place.
> If it ever needs to be removed for access to
> the underside, I will cut it out leaving a
> 2 inch wide "web frame" in place around the
> perimeter, and fabricate a new bottom to
> bolt down on top of the web frame.
>
> You will notice a post from a "Mercury"
> lover- as I said, there are many collectors
> of 50's Mercuries. But I don't consider these
> engines to be real good candidates for simple-to-
> maintain reliable everyday powerplants.
> For example, I would never choose my Mercury-
> built Western Auto WN-7A (which came from the
> factory with a Mark 20H crankshaft) over a good
> ole Johnson or Evinrude for a leasurly cruise
> on the lake.
>
> concerning P L Premium, I used a whole bunch
> of the stuff on my boat, somewhere around 15 or 16
> tubes. Also used about 5 lbs of Weldwood, and a
> few cups of epoxy. The P L seems to have worked
> OK, except on butt plates where is was sometimes
> very hard to draw the pieces together flush,
> the glue being so thick.
>
> Picked up a new boat trailer on Friday- made
> a deal with the dealer; by picking up my own
> trailer at the factory, along with two more trailers
> (stacked on top of mine) for the dealer's stock,
> I got a real good deal.
>
> Maiden voyage probably weekend after next.
>
> By the way, Jim had the protype AF4 in the water
> 90 days after beginning- if I had had warm weather,
> and had not been making changes in the design, I
> could have had mine in the water in the same 90
> days. Since you've built boats before, I would bet
> that you can beat that time.
>
> Later
>
>
> Max
For more info,Klwinter@...
--- In bolger@y..., <jmbell@m...> wrote:
A 2 1/2 inch transom is going to be WAY too thick.
I checked the clamp brackets on one old 18 hp, and
2 inches is all it can handle, if even that.
I would consider 2 layers of 1/2" ply plus a
1 X 8, which would give you about 1 3/4, leaving
a little space for metal plates or some sort
of sacrificial pads to take the wear and tear
of the clamping brackets.
My transom is two layers of 5/8" with a single
outer layer of 5.2 mm luan (3/16"). I have 1/8"
aluminum plates inside and out for the clamps
to bear on, and there is really very little room
left under the brackets.
Keep in mind that the bottom of the splash
well adds much reinforcement to the transom. I
glued, screwed, and taped my bottom in place.
If it ever needs to be removed for access to
the underside, I will cut it out leaving a
2 inch wide "web frame" in place around the
perimeter, and fabricate a new bottom to
bolt down on top of the web frame.
You will notice a post from a "Mercury"
lover- as I said, there are many collectors
of 50's Mercuries. But I don't consider these
engines to be real good candidates for simple-to-
maintain reliable everyday powerplants.
For example, I would never choose my Mercury-
built Western Auto WN-7A (which came from the
factory with a Mark 20H crankshaft) over a good
ole Johnson or Evinrude for a leasurly cruise
on the lake.
concerning P L Premium, I used a whole bunch
of the stuff on my boat, somewhere around 15 or 16
tubes. Also used about 5 lbs of Weldwood, and a
few cups of epoxy. The P L seems to have worked
OK, except on butt plates where is was sometimes
very hard to draw the pieces together flush,
the glue being so thick.
Picked up a new boat trailer on Friday- made
a deal with the dealer; by picking up my own
trailer at the factory, along with two more trailers
(stacked on top of mine) for the dealer's stock,
I got a real good deal.
Maiden voyage probably weekend after next.
By the way, Jim had the protype AF4 in the water
90 days after beginning- if I had had warm weather,
and had not been making changes in the design, I
could have had mine in the water in the same 90
days. Since you've built boats before, I would bet
that you can beat that time.
Later
Max
> Wow, Max! Thanks for a really informative post. I'llGood evening:
> see if I can find an antique otuboard meet near me.
>
> My AF4 project is moving very rapidly. I've got about
> 5 hours in the project so far in two work sessions. So
> far, I've got all three permanent bulkheads built.
> I've still got to build the transom and the two
> temporary forms. After that all that remains is
> butting and cutting out the sides, then we go 3D. I'm
> working hard to have it ready before the Midwest
> Messabout.
>
> One question before I build the transom. As designed,
> it seems a little flimsy: 3/8" ply with a 2x8 motor
> board. I think I'm going to beef it up by laminating
> it out of two layers of 1/2" ply and include the 1-1/2
> motor board as specified. How big is the standard jaw
> opening on an outboard? Can most outboards handle a
> 2-1/2" thick transom?
>
> JB in Georgia
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
>http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=t
A 2 1/2 inch transom is going to be WAY too thick.
I checked the clamp brackets on one old 18 hp, and
2 inches is all it can handle, if even that.
I would consider 2 layers of 1/2" ply plus a
1 X 8, which would give you about 1 3/4, leaving
a little space for metal plates or some sort
of sacrificial pads to take the wear and tear
of the clamping brackets.
My transom is two layers of 5/8" with a single
outer layer of 5.2 mm luan (3/16"). I have 1/8"
aluminum plates inside and out for the clamps
to bear on, and there is really very little room
left under the brackets.
Keep in mind that the bottom of the splash
well adds much reinforcement to the transom. I
glued, screwed, and taped my bottom in place.
If it ever needs to be removed for access to
the underside, I will cut it out leaving a
2 inch wide "web frame" in place around the
perimeter, and fabricate a new bottom to
bolt down on top of the web frame.
You will notice a post from a "Mercury"
lover- as I said, there are many collectors
of 50's Mercuries. But I don't consider these
engines to be real good candidates for simple-to-
maintain reliable everyday powerplants.
For example, I would never choose my Mercury-
built Western Auto WN-7A (which came from the
factory with a Mark 20H crankshaft) over a good
ole Johnson or Evinrude for a leasurly cruise
on the lake.
concerning P L Premium, I used a whole bunch
of the stuff on my boat, somewhere around 15 or 16
tubes. Also used about 5 lbs of Weldwood, and a
few cups of epoxy. The P L seems to have worked
OK, except on butt plates where is was sometimes
very hard to draw the pieces together flush,
the glue being so thick.
Picked up a new boat trailer on Friday- made
a deal with the dealer; by picking up my own
trailer at the factory, along with two more trailers
(stacked on top of mine) for the dealer's stock,
I got a real good deal.
Maiden voyage probably weekend after next.
By the way, Jim had the protype AF4 in the water
90 days after beginning- if I had had warm weather,
and had not been making changes in the design, I
could have had mine in the water in the same 90
days. Since you've built boats before, I would bet
that you can beat that time.
Later
Max
Hi,
A few months ago I began to look for an outboard in
about the same size range that you need. I first haunted e-bay
for
a couple of weeks but the motors there seem to
bring top dollar. We have a classified paper here called the
Thrifty
Nickle. They have locations all over the
bottom half of the
US, and a web site as well. I searched their
site for a couple of weeks and was able to locate a new in the box
15
hp Chrysler outboard motor for $500. It is a
1984 year model. There are better buys there than on the auction
sites. There is probably a classified shopper in your area, You might want
to give it a try if there is.
James
----- Original Message -----From:Phillip TuckerSent:Wednesday, March 28, 2001 12:47 AMSubject:Re: [bolger] Used outboards advice?John, I've owned many outboards over the years, both new and used. I am
partial to Evinrude. If buying used, it can be helpful to take a good look
at the boat the motor came off of. If it's been properly maintained, chances
are the motor has too. Good luck.
Phil T.
>From:jmbell@...
>Reply-To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
>To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [bolger] Used outboards advice?
>Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:44:21 -0000
>
>I've started my next boat, an AF4 power skiff by Jim Michalak. This
>will be the fifth boat I've started and hopefully the third I'll
>complete. (Did anyone else ever wonder about how the rest of the
>group is on their started boats to completed boats ratio? Just a
>random thought, and not really related to what I want to ask...)
>
>This boat is progressing rapidly - hurray for simplicity - so I'll
>need to locate a powerplant for it very soon. I'm wide open on power
>choices: 5-25HP or anything in between. Ideally, this boat needs 15hp
>to perform how I want it to. But frugality is the real driver here,
>I'll take slow and cheap if I have to just to get out on the water.
>
>I'm sure there are great deals out there on used OB motors, I just
>have no idea where to even begin looking. Can anyone offer
>suggestions of the types of places frugal boater can scrounge to find
>old outboards?
>
>Also, are there any sources of information I can refer to about what
>motors to covet/avoid? Also looking for pros and cons of various
>makes and models.
>
>Best,
>
>John Bell
>Kennesaw, GA
>
_________________________________________________________________
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- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
Wow, Max! Thanks for a really informative post. I'll
see if I can find an antique otuboard meet near me.
My AF4 project is moving very rapidly. I've got about
5 hours in the project so far in two work sessions. So
far, I've got all three permanent bulkheads built.
I've still got to build the transom and the two
temporary forms. After that all that remains is
butting and cutting out the sides, then we go 3D. I'm
working hard to have it ready before the Midwest
Messabout.
One question before I build the transom. As designed,
it seems a little flimsy: 3/8" ply with a 2x8 motor
board. I think I'm going to beef it up by laminating
it out of two layers of 1/2" ply and include the 1-1/2
motor board as specified. How big is the standard jaw
opening on an outboard? Can most outboards handle a
2-1/2" thick transom?
JB in Georgia
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
see if I can find an antique otuboard meet near me.
My AF4 project is moving very rapidly. I've got about
5 hours in the project so far in two work sessions. So
far, I've got all three permanent bulkheads built.
I've still got to build the transom and the two
temporary forms. After that all that remains is
butting and cutting out the sides, then we go 3D. I'm
working hard to have it ready before the Midwest
Messabout.
One question before I build the transom. As designed,
it seems a little flimsy: 3/8" ply with a 2x8 motor
board. I think I'm going to beef it up by laminating
it out of two layers of 1/2" ply and include the 1-1/2
motor board as specified. How big is the standard jaw
opening on an outboard? Can most outboards handle a
2-1/2" thick transom?
JB in Georgia
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
In a message dated 03/27/2001 7:<BR45:<BR23 PM
Eastern Standard ,cadbury@...writes:
Likewise those useless old 50s Mercs. Fagiddabout using them and ship them to
me for proper disposal
Cheers/Carron
2 Champions and 3 Merc Dock Bangers along with some pedestrian OMC iron :-)
Eastern Standard ,cadbury@...writes:
> Other ones I would avoid are ChampionsI have to agree with Max, John. These you should send to me :-)
Likewise those useless old 50s Mercs. Fagiddabout using them and ship them to
me for proper disposal
Cheers/Carron
2 Champions and 3 Merc Dock Bangers along with some pedestrian OMC iron :-)
John, I've owned many outboards over the years, both new and used. I am
partial to Evinrude. If buying used, it can be helpful to take a good look
at the boat the motor came off of. If it's been properly maintained, chances
are the motor has too. Good luck.
Phil T.
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com
partial to Evinrude. If buying used, it can be helpful to take a good look
at the boat the motor came off of. If it's been properly maintained, chances
are the motor has too. Good luck.
Phil T.
>From:jmbell@..._________________________________________________________________
>Reply-To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [bolger] Used outboards advice?
>Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:44:21 -0000
>
>I've started my next boat, an AF4 power skiff by Jim Michalak. This
>will be the fifth boat I've started and hopefully the third I'll
>complete. (Did anyone else ever wonder about how the rest of the
>group is on their started boats to completed boats ratio? Just a
>random thought, and not really related to what I want to ask...)
>
>This boat is progressing rapidly - hurray for simplicity - so I'll
>need to locate a powerplant for it very soon. I'm wide open on power
>choices: 5-25HP or anything in between. Ideally, this boat needs 15hp
>to perform how I want it to. But frugality is the real driver here,
>I'll take slow and cheap if I have to just to get out on the water.
>
>I'm sure there are great deals out there on used OB motors, I just
>have no idea where to even begin looking. Can anyone offer
>suggestions of the types of places frugal boater can scrounge to find
>old outboards?
>
>Also, are there any sources of information I can refer to about what
>motors to covet/avoid? Also looking for pros and cons of various
>makes and models.
>
>Best,
>
>John Bell
>Kennesaw, GA
>
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com
--- In bolger@y..., jmbell@m... wrote:
I have to let the potatos boil for about 30 minutes
before mashing them, so I will use that time to give
my opinion.
I assume you have read Michalak's essay on "messing
about with outboards." He makes 2 good points: Off-brand,
air-cooled outboards can be very economical powerplants
in the lower (7.5 and down) HP range, and the cheapest
way to buy an old outboard (short of from a relative) is
at swap meets held by The Antique Outboard Motor Club.
As long as you are not looking for something very rare,
or racing hardware, you will find better deals there, than
from the little old blue-haired lady selling her late
husband's trusted fish'n motor (with all of it's sentimental
value.) You may also try posting a "wanted" notice on
the supermarket bulletin board, and if you can get on
the local radio station's "trading post" or whatever they
call it, you will probably get some results.
As far as 50's and 60's outboards go, I recommend
staying with OMC products. Everyone has heard of Evinrude
and Johnson, but prior to 1963, the Gale division sold
Gales and Bucaneers, and gales were also sold by the
late Montgomery Ward (Sea King), Goodyear tire (Sea bee)
Fedway stores (Saber) and a couple others. SOME Gale
engines are virtual copies of Johns and Evins, but NOT
all. Ignition parts, waterpump parts, carb rebuild kits,
and that sort of thing are all readily available for
about all of the OMC's from 1954 on, with the exception
of the Gale 3 hp, the Gale 5hp with no shift or with
neutral only, and the non-shift Gale 12hp.
The Weakest part of the 1954 to 1966 or so OMC's
are the magneto coils- if the coils have not been replaced,
they will have to be replaced. At a dealer, a coil (one
per cylinder) is about 25 bucks if you put it in yourself-
the coils are about 13 or 14 bucks through other sources.
Remove the cowling; removed the recoil starter, and
check for a small inspection cover in the top of the
flywheel- Rotate the flywheel around and look for
cracks in the tops of the coils.
Also, The 10 hp OMC's made between 1958 and 1963
used a small, weak lower unit that always has problems.
The '55 through'57 10's had a much stronger and bigger
lower unit. The '49 through '54 10's are a little
too wierd, in my opinnion, for anyone but a collector.
Lots of experiments in those early years.
Most remote-tank-equiped OMC's prior to 1960 used
pressurized tanks- there was no fuel pump. If there are
two hoses leading from the powerhead to the fuel connector
on the engine, you need a pressure tank. These tanks have
not been available new since 1985, and some dealers make a
nice living rebuilding and reselling used pressure tanks.
If you buy such an engine, make sure you get at least one
good pressure tank, and the fitting that hooks to the
motor. The hose can be replaced, as can the "o" rings
in the fitting. An outboard that needs a pressure tank
and does not have one, is worth considerably less money.
Yes, most all of these engines can be converted to use
fuel pumps and ordinary tanks, but it costs.
I would avoid the "off-brands," such as Scott Attwater
(also sold as Firestones and Corsairs).
What few new parts are availble are expensive, and you
are usually limited to utilizing "parts engines". On
the plus side, old Scotts are usually dirt cheap at the
Antique Outboard motor meets, with the exception of
showroom-new examples and racing versions. Other ones
I would avoid are Champions (Also sold as Voyagers, Majestics,
and B.F Goodrich Sea Fliers). HOWEVER, there are exceptions.
If you run across a Spiegel (yes, the catalog company of
"let's Make a Deal" fame) 5 hp late 50's Brooklure with FULL GEAR
SHIFT, you have found an engine almost identical mechanically
to a Johns. or Evin. 5 1/2, and if the Brooklure is
equipped for a remote fuel tank, it most likely came
from the factory fitted with a fuel pump, while
Johnsons and Evinrude 5 1/2's from the same factory
were still using pressure tanks. A mid 50's 5hp Brooklure
with only a neutral, however, is a whole 'nuther story.
I would also avoid 1950's Mercuries. Mercury was
run by a lunatic at the time, and the engines show it.
You will find left-hand threads, fine threads, assemblies
requiring special tools to work on, even lead seals
on some bolts so the servicemen will know if you have
been tinkering with the engine. You will find "direct
reversing" engines that you have to start-up backwards
for reverse, and engines equiped with "automatic transmisiions"
that make water pump impellor replacement a nightmare
(run away from any late 50's Merc that has the shift and
throttle combined in the twist grip). Several models
suffered from very weak lower unit design. 50's Mercurys
are best left for the Mercury collectors, of which there
are many.
"The old Outboard Book" by Peter Hunn (Still in print,
I think) offers a lot of general info, but is geared more
towards the collector. There is a model and year guide, however,
as well as a price guide that was not well researched when
put together, and not real reliable 7 years later. I have
bought outboards for less than the "book price" and have
paid a lot more than book for others. I don't bother to
look-up the "book" price when I buy something- I know
what I am willing to pay for what I want, and I don't pay more.
As long as this post is, it only scatches the surface
on the subject of "old outboards." Look up the
website for "The Antique Outboard Motor Club" and you will
find links to other sites specialing in different brands,
and also some outboard discursion boards.
Happy motor'n
Max
> I've started my next boat, an AF4 power skiff by Jim Michalak. Thispower
> will be the fifth boat I've started and hopefully the third I'll
> complete. (Did anyone else ever wonder about how the rest of the
> group is on their started boats to completed boats ratio? Just a
> random thought, and not really related to what I want to ask...)
>
> This boat is progressing rapidly - hurray for simplicity - so I'll
> need to locate a powerplant for it very soon. I'm wide open on
> choices: 5-25HP or anything in between. Ideally, this boat needs15hp
> to perform how I want it to. But frugality is the real driver here,find
> I'll take slow and cheap if I have to just to get out on the water.
>
> I'm sure there are great deals out there on used OB motors, I just
> have no idea where to even begin looking. Can anyone offer
> suggestions of the types of places frugal boater can scrounge to
> old outboards?what
>
> Also, are there any sources of information I can refer to about
> motors to covet/avoid? Also looking for pros and cons of variousGood evening, Capt. John:
> makes and models.
>
> Best,
>
> John Bell
> Kennesaw, GA
I have to let the potatos boil for about 30 minutes
before mashing them, so I will use that time to give
my opinion.
I assume you have read Michalak's essay on "messing
about with outboards." He makes 2 good points: Off-brand,
air-cooled outboards can be very economical powerplants
in the lower (7.5 and down) HP range, and the cheapest
way to buy an old outboard (short of from a relative) is
at swap meets held by The Antique Outboard Motor Club.
As long as you are not looking for something very rare,
or racing hardware, you will find better deals there, than
from the little old blue-haired lady selling her late
husband's trusted fish'n motor (with all of it's sentimental
value.) You may also try posting a "wanted" notice on
the supermarket bulletin board, and if you can get on
the local radio station's "trading post" or whatever they
call it, you will probably get some results.
As far as 50's and 60's outboards go, I recommend
staying with OMC products. Everyone has heard of Evinrude
and Johnson, but prior to 1963, the Gale division sold
Gales and Bucaneers, and gales were also sold by the
late Montgomery Ward (Sea King), Goodyear tire (Sea bee)
Fedway stores (Saber) and a couple others. SOME Gale
engines are virtual copies of Johns and Evins, but NOT
all. Ignition parts, waterpump parts, carb rebuild kits,
and that sort of thing are all readily available for
about all of the OMC's from 1954 on, with the exception
of the Gale 3 hp, the Gale 5hp with no shift or with
neutral only, and the non-shift Gale 12hp.
The Weakest part of the 1954 to 1966 or so OMC's
are the magneto coils- if the coils have not been replaced,
they will have to be replaced. At a dealer, a coil (one
per cylinder) is about 25 bucks if you put it in yourself-
the coils are about 13 or 14 bucks through other sources.
Remove the cowling; removed the recoil starter, and
check for a small inspection cover in the top of the
flywheel- Rotate the flywheel around and look for
cracks in the tops of the coils.
Also, The 10 hp OMC's made between 1958 and 1963
used a small, weak lower unit that always has problems.
The '55 through'57 10's had a much stronger and bigger
lower unit. The '49 through '54 10's are a little
too wierd, in my opinnion, for anyone but a collector.
Lots of experiments in those early years.
Most remote-tank-equiped OMC's prior to 1960 used
pressurized tanks- there was no fuel pump. If there are
two hoses leading from the powerhead to the fuel connector
on the engine, you need a pressure tank. These tanks have
not been available new since 1985, and some dealers make a
nice living rebuilding and reselling used pressure tanks.
If you buy such an engine, make sure you get at least one
good pressure tank, and the fitting that hooks to the
motor. The hose can be replaced, as can the "o" rings
in the fitting. An outboard that needs a pressure tank
and does not have one, is worth considerably less money.
Yes, most all of these engines can be converted to use
fuel pumps and ordinary tanks, but it costs.
I would avoid the "off-brands," such as Scott Attwater
(also sold as Firestones and Corsairs).
What few new parts are availble are expensive, and you
are usually limited to utilizing "parts engines". On
the plus side, old Scotts are usually dirt cheap at the
Antique Outboard motor meets, with the exception of
showroom-new examples and racing versions. Other ones
I would avoid are Champions (Also sold as Voyagers, Majestics,
and B.F Goodrich Sea Fliers). HOWEVER, there are exceptions.
If you run across a Spiegel (yes, the catalog company of
"let's Make a Deal" fame) 5 hp late 50's Brooklure with FULL GEAR
SHIFT, you have found an engine almost identical mechanically
to a Johns. or Evin. 5 1/2, and if the Brooklure is
equipped for a remote fuel tank, it most likely came
from the factory fitted with a fuel pump, while
Johnsons and Evinrude 5 1/2's from the same factory
were still using pressure tanks. A mid 50's 5hp Brooklure
with only a neutral, however, is a whole 'nuther story.
I would also avoid 1950's Mercuries. Mercury was
run by a lunatic at the time, and the engines show it.
You will find left-hand threads, fine threads, assemblies
requiring special tools to work on, even lead seals
on some bolts so the servicemen will know if you have
been tinkering with the engine. You will find "direct
reversing" engines that you have to start-up backwards
for reverse, and engines equiped with "automatic transmisiions"
that make water pump impellor replacement a nightmare
(run away from any late 50's Merc that has the shift and
throttle combined in the twist grip). Several models
suffered from very weak lower unit design. 50's Mercurys
are best left for the Mercury collectors, of which there
are many.
"The old Outboard Book" by Peter Hunn (Still in print,
I think) offers a lot of general info, but is geared more
towards the collector. There is a model and year guide, however,
as well as a price guide that was not well researched when
put together, and not real reliable 7 years later. I have
bought outboards for less than the "book price" and have
paid a lot more than book for others. I don't bother to
look-up the "book" price when I buy something- I know
what I am willing to pay for what I want, and I don't pay more.
As long as this post is, it only scatches the surface
on the subject of "old outboards." Look up the
website for "The Antique Outboard Motor Club" and you will
find links to other sites specialing in different brands,
and also some outboard discursion boards.
Happy motor'n
Max
I bought an old 3.7 HP Scott-Atwater outboard (1957) on E-bay about
one year ago from a guy in Florida. The thing turned out to be a
great little kicker and has worked wonderfuly. I suppose that you
take your chances when you buy anything through E-bay. I am always
sure to check the seller's profile for negative comments.
Also, there are several Marinas near here (Philadelphia) which sell a
lot of larger used outboards.
Good luck.
Andy Farquhar
one year ago from a guy in Florida. The thing turned out to be a
great little kicker and has worked wonderfuly. I suppose that you
take your chances when you buy anything through E-bay. I am always
sure to check the seller's profile for negative comments.
Also, there are several Marinas near here (Philadelphia) which sell a
lot of larger used outboards.
Good luck.
Andy Farquhar
I've started my next boat, an AF4 power skiff by Jim Michalak. This
will be the fifth boat I've started and hopefully the third I'll
complete. (Did anyone else ever wonder about how the rest of the
group is on their started boats to completed boats ratio? Just a
random thought, and not really related to what I want to ask...)
This boat is progressing rapidly - hurray for simplicity - so I'll
need to locate a powerplant for it very soon. I'm wide open on power
choices: 5-25HP or anything in between. Ideally, this boat needs 15hp
to perform how I want it to. But frugality is the real driver here,
I'll take slow and cheap if I have to just to get out on the water.
I'm sure there are great deals out there on used OB motors, I just
have no idea where to even begin looking. Can anyone offer
suggestions of the types of places frugal boater can scrounge to find
old outboards?
Also, are there any sources of information I can refer to about what
motors to covet/avoid? Also looking for pros and cons of various
makes and models.
Best,
John Bell
Kennesaw, GA
will be the fifth boat I've started and hopefully the third I'll
complete. (Did anyone else ever wonder about how the rest of the
group is on their started boats to completed boats ratio? Just a
random thought, and not really related to what I want to ask...)
This boat is progressing rapidly - hurray for simplicity - so I'll
need to locate a powerplant for it very soon. I'm wide open on power
choices: 5-25HP or anything in between. Ideally, this boat needs 15hp
to perform how I want it to. But frugality is the real driver here,
I'll take slow and cheap if I have to just to get out on the water.
I'm sure there are great deals out there on used OB motors, I just
have no idea where to even begin looking. Can anyone offer
suggestions of the types of places frugal boater can scrounge to find
old outboards?
Also, are there any sources of information I can refer to about what
motors to covet/avoid? Also looking for pros and cons of various
makes and models.
Best,
John Bell
Kennesaw, GA