Re: [bolger] re: Micro sinking
John, this is part of a series of articles on flotation, I wrote a while
back on flotation and should be relevant to the Micro sinking, from what
you have said, it look as if the Micro could use more flotation material to
make it safe.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Smallboats/message/87
If you want to see the rest go to "files" on flotation see; "Don's index"
and click on the links. Don
back on flotation and should be relevant to the Micro sinking, from what
you have said, it look as if the Micro could use more flotation material to
make it safe.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Smallboats/message/87
If you want to see the rest go to "files" on flotation see; "Don's index"
and click on the links. Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Bell" <jmbell@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] re: Micro sinking
> They do call for two blocks in the 'hold' under the cockpit, maybe three
> cubic feet, and a block under a grate in the anchor well. All totaled up,
> 4-4.5 cubic feet?
>
> JB
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <delliott@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 8:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] re: Micro sinking
>
>
> | Does any one know if the Micro plans call for flotation material? If so,
> how
> | much? I know the Navigator has build-in flotation.
> | I should point out that the weight of the gear has to be taken into
> | consideration when calculating the amount of buoyant material, usually
the
> | amount of flotation required is based of the displacement of the craft,
> this
> | would be with the boat fully loaded to its designed waterline.
> | Some designers put more than others and what surprises me is
different
> | designers put it in places in total disagreement with other designers.
> | To me it is one of the most important aspects of small boat design.
> | Before you buy those plans or build that boat, ask about the flotation.
> Don
> | ----- Original Message -----
> | From: "Gregg Carlson" <ghartc@...>
> | To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> | Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 9:05 AM
> | Subject: Re: [bolger] re: Micro sinking
> |
> |
> | > If it's any consolation to Micro builders, a 45 foot sailboat sank
last
> | > night here in Pensacola - right in its slip. That marina is pretty
well
> | > exposed to thunderstorms, and apparently a hatch blew off and waves
> | swamped
> | > the cockpit, then the boat.
> | >
> | > But, the Coast Guard requires boats as small Micro to be unsinkable,
so,
> | > while anything can happen, it probably shouldn't sink. I don't see
gear
> | > being too significant, unless that includes bricks ;-}
> | >
> | > Gregg Carlson
> | >
> | >
> | > At 03:40 AM 3/30/01 -0000, you wrote:
> | > >I'd be the last person to say you CAN'T sink a Micro, but my
> | > >experiences with our Micro (BANTY) would suggest that several
> | > >questions regarding the mentioned Micro sinking need to be asked.
> | > >
> | > >With 400+ pounds of lead ballast and untold pounds of gear on board,
> | > >the 'optional' foam flotation doesn't seem so optional to me.....was
> | > >the 'sinker' so equipped?
> | > >
> | > >We've sailed BANTY in open water off the coast of North Carolina and
> | > >on the Atlantic side of the Florida Keys. I wouldn't relish being
> | > >out there in breaking seas, but I can tell you that BANTY can stand
> | > >rougher water than we can. You haven't really lived until you've
> | > >spent 10 hours slogging dead to windward with spray coming over the
> | > >bow every few seconds --uggh.
> | > >
> | > >We've had BANTY's rail in the water several times and even managed to
> | > >put the mast IN the water once....I didn't say I was smart, just
> | > >enthusiastic! Releasing the main sheet allowed BANTY to instantly
> | > >pop back to her feet.....no, dear, I didn't do that on purpose; and
> | > >by the way, help me put a double reef in !!
> | > >
> | > >We took plenty of water aboard, but nary a drop below. What were the
> | > >weather conditions when the 'sinker' sank? Unless seas breaking
> | > >onboard were a factor, you might have to work a bit to get in a
> | > >position that would allow water to freely enter via the cockpit
> | > >hatch / companionway / vents.
> | > >
> | > >BANTY has opening ports. In all but the lightest air, they are
> | > >dogged. When it gets rough, the companionway drop boards, hatch
> | > >cover, and vent openings are also secured. Was 'sinker's' cockpit
> | > >hatch the only thing open?
> | > >
> | > >We had one experience that was so rough that we sailed (actually, we
> | > >furled both sails)with the cockpit cover in place. It was during an
> | > >encounter with a waterspout...........ahhhhh, a story for another
> | > >time.
> | > >
> | > >Often wet, sometimes water-logged, ocassionally terrified, but not
> | > >yet sunk,
> | > >
> | > >John & Susan McDaniel
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | > Bolger rules!!!
> | > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> | > - no flogging dead horses
> | > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> | > - stay on topic and punctuate
> | > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> | > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> | 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> | >
> | >
> | > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> | >
> | >
> |
> |
> |
> | Bolger rules!!!
> | - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> | - no flogging dead horses
> | - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> | - stay on topic and punctuate
> | - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> | - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> |
> |
> | Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> |
> |
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
They do call for two blocks in the 'hold' under the cockpit, maybe three
cubic feet, and a block under a grate in the anchor well. All totaled up,
4-4.5 cubic feet?
JB
cubic feet, and a block under a grate in the anchor well. All totaled up,
4-4.5 cubic feet?
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: <delliott@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] re: Micro sinking
| Does any one know if the Micro plans call for flotation material? If so,
how
| much? I know the Navigator has build-in flotation.
| I should point out that the weight of the gear has to be taken into
| consideration when calculating the amount of buoyant material, usually the
| amount of flotation required is based of the displacement of the craft,
this
| would be with the boat fully loaded to its designed waterline.
| Some designers put more than others and what surprises me is different
| designers put it in places in total disagreement with other designers.
| To me it is one of the most important aspects of small boat design.
| Before you buy those plans or build that boat, ask about the flotation.
Don
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: "Gregg Carlson" <ghartc@...>
| To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
| Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 9:05 AM
| Subject: Re: [bolger] re: Micro sinking
|
|
| > If it's any consolation to Micro builders, a 45 foot sailboat sank last
| > night here in Pensacola - right in its slip. That marina is pretty well
| > exposed to thunderstorms, and apparently a hatch blew off and waves
| swamped
| > the cockpit, then the boat.
| >
| > But, the Coast Guard requires boats as small Micro to be unsinkable, so,
| > while anything can happen, it probably shouldn't sink. I don't see gear
| > being too significant, unless that includes bricks ;-}
| >
| > Gregg Carlson
| >
| >
| > At 03:40 AM 3/30/01 -0000, you wrote:
| > >I'd be the last person to say you CAN'T sink a Micro, but my
| > >experiences with our Micro (BANTY) would suggest that several
| > >questions regarding the mentioned Micro sinking need to be asked.
| > >
| > >With 400+ pounds of lead ballast and untold pounds of gear on board,
| > >the 'optional' foam flotation doesn't seem so optional to me.....was
| > >the 'sinker' so equipped?
| > >
| > >We've sailed BANTY in open water off the coast of North Carolina and
| > >on the Atlantic side of the Florida Keys. I wouldn't relish being
| > >out there in breaking seas, but I can tell you that BANTY can stand
| > >rougher water than we can. You haven't really lived until you've
| > >spent 10 hours slogging dead to windward with spray coming over the
| > >bow every few seconds --uggh.
| > >
| > >We've had BANTY's rail in the water several times and even managed to
| > >put the mast IN the water once....I didn't say I was smart, just
| > >enthusiastic! Releasing the main sheet allowed BANTY to instantly
| > >pop back to her feet.....no, dear, I didn't do that on purpose; and
| > >by the way, help me put a double reef in !!
| > >
| > >We took plenty of water aboard, but nary a drop below. What were the
| > >weather conditions when the 'sinker' sank? Unless seas breaking
| > >onboard were a factor, you might have to work a bit to get in a
| > >position that would allow water to freely enter via the cockpit
| > >hatch / companionway / vents.
| > >
| > >BANTY has opening ports. In all but the lightest air, they are
| > >dogged. When it gets rough, the companionway drop boards, hatch
| > >cover, and vent openings are also secured. Was 'sinker's' cockpit
| > >hatch the only thing open?
| > >
| > >We had one experience that was so rough that we sailed (actually, we
| > >furled both sails)with the cockpit cover in place. It was during an
| > >encounter with a waterspout...........ahhhhh, a story for another
| > >time.
| > >
| > >Often wet, sometimes water-logged, ocassionally terrified, but not
| > >yet sunk,
| > >
| > >John & Susan McDaniel
| >
| >
| >
| > Bolger rules!!!
| > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
| > - no flogging dead horses
| > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
| > - stay on topic and punctuate
| > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
| > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
| 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
| >
| >
| > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
| >
| >
|
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
| - no flogging dead horses
| - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
| - stay on topic and punctuate
| - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
| - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
|
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
Does any one know if the Micro plans call for flotation material? If so, how
much? I know the Navigator has build-in flotation.
I should point out that the weight of the gear has to be taken into
consideration when calculating the amount of buoyant material, usually the
amount of flotation required is based of the displacement of the craft, this
would be with the boat fully loaded to its designed waterline.
Some designers put more than others and what surprises me is different
designers put it in places in total disagreement with other designers.
To me it is one of the most important aspects of small boat design.
Before you buy those plans or build that boat, ask about the flotation. Don
much? I know the Navigator has build-in flotation.
I should point out that the weight of the gear has to be taken into
consideration when calculating the amount of buoyant material, usually the
amount of flotation required is based of the displacement of the craft, this
would be with the boat fully loaded to its designed waterline.
Some designers put more than others and what surprises me is different
designers put it in places in total disagreement with other designers.
To me it is one of the most important aspects of small boat design.
Before you buy those plans or build that boat, ask about the flotation. Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregg Carlson" <ghartc@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] re: Micro sinking
> If it's any consolation to Micro builders, a 45 foot sailboat sank last
> night here in Pensacola - right in its slip. That marina is pretty well
> exposed to thunderstorms, and apparently a hatch blew off and waves
swamped
> the cockpit, then the boat.
>
> But, the Coast Guard requires boats as small Micro to be unsinkable, so,
> while anything can happen, it probably shouldn't sink. I don't see gear
> being too significant, unless that includes bricks ;-}
>
> Gregg Carlson
>
>
> At 03:40 AM 3/30/01 -0000, you wrote:
> >I'd be the last person to say you CAN'T sink a Micro, but my
> >experiences with our Micro (BANTY) would suggest that several
> >questions regarding the mentioned Micro sinking need to be asked.
> >
> >With 400+ pounds of lead ballast and untold pounds of gear on board,
> >the 'optional' foam flotation doesn't seem so optional to me.....was
> >the 'sinker' so equipped?
> >
> >We've sailed BANTY in open water off the coast of North Carolina and
> >on the Atlantic side of the Florida Keys. I wouldn't relish being
> >out there in breaking seas, but I can tell you that BANTY can stand
> >rougher water than we can. You haven't really lived until you've
> >spent 10 hours slogging dead to windward with spray coming over the
> >bow every few seconds --uggh.
> >
> >We've had BANTY's rail in the water several times and even managed to
> >put the mast IN the water once....I didn't say I was smart, just
> >enthusiastic! Releasing the main sheet allowed BANTY to instantly
> >pop back to her feet.....no, dear, I didn't do that on purpose; and
> >by the way, help me put a double reef in !!
> >
> >We took plenty of water aboard, but nary a drop below. What were the
> >weather conditions when the 'sinker' sank? Unless seas breaking
> >onboard were a factor, you might have to work a bit to get in a
> >position that would allow water to freely enter via the cockpit
> >hatch / companionway / vents.
> >
> >BANTY has opening ports. In all but the lightest air, they are
> >dogged. When it gets rough, the companionway drop boards, hatch
> >cover, and vent openings are also secured. Was 'sinker's' cockpit
> >hatch the only thing open?
> >
> >We had one experience that was so rough that we sailed (actually, we
> >furled both sails)with the cockpit cover in place. It was during an
> >encounter with a waterspout...........ahhhhh, a story for another
> >time.
> >
> >Often wet, sometimes water-logged, ocassionally terrified, but not
> >yet sunk,
> >
> >John & Susan McDaniel
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
If it's any consolation to Micro builders, a 45 foot sailboat sank last
night here in Pensacola - right in its slip. That marina is pretty well
exposed to thunderstorms, and apparently a hatch blew off and waves swamped
the cockpit, then the boat.
But, the Coast Guard requires boats as small Micro to be unsinkable, so,
while anything can happen, it probably shouldn't sink. I don't see gear
being too significant, unless that includes bricks ;-}
Gregg Carlson
At 03:40 AM 3/30/01 -0000, you wrote:
night here in Pensacola - right in its slip. That marina is pretty well
exposed to thunderstorms, and apparently a hatch blew off and waves swamped
the cockpit, then the boat.
But, the Coast Guard requires boats as small Micro to be unsinkable, so,
while anything can happen, it probably shouldn't sink. I don't see gear
being too significant, unless that includes bricks ;-}
Gregg Carlson
At 03:40 AM 3/30/01 -0000, you wrote:
>I'd be the last person to say you CAN'T sink a Micro, but my
>experiences with our Micro (BANTY) would suggest that several
>questions regarding the mentioned Micro sinking need to be asked.
>
>With 400+ pounds of lead ballast and untold pounds of gear on board,
>the 'optional' foam flotation doesn't seem so optional to me.....was
>the 'sinker' so equipped?
>
>We've sailed BANTY in open water off the coast of North Carolina and
>on the Atlantic side of the Florida Keys. I wouldn't relish being
>out there in breaking seas, but I can tell you that BANTY can stand
>rougher water than we can. You haven't really lived until you've
>spent 10 hours slogging dead to windward with spray coming over the
>bow every few seconds --uggh.
>
>We've had BANTY's rail in the water several times and even managed to
>put the mast IN the water once....I didn't say I was smart, just
>enthusiastic! Releasing the main sheet allowed BANTY to instantly
>pop back to her feet.....no, dear, I didn't do that on purpose; and
>by the way, help me put a double reef in !!
>
>We took plenty of water aboard, but nary a drop below. What were the
>weather conditions when the 'sinker' sank? Unless seas breaking
>onboard were a factor, you might have to work a bit to get in a
>position that would allow water to freely enter via the cockpit
>hatch / companionway / vents.
>
>BANTY has opening ports. In all but the lightest air, they are
>dogged. When it gets rough, the companionway drop boards, hatch
>cover, and vent openings are also secured. Was 'sinker's' cockpit
>hatch the only thing open?
>
>We had one experience that was so rough that we sailed (actually, we
>furled both sails)with the cockpit cover in place. It was during an
>encounter with a waterspout...........ahhhhh, a story for another
>time.
>
>Often wet, sometimes water-logged, ocassionally terrified, but not
>yet sunk,
>
>John & Susan McDaniel
I'd be the last person to say you CAN'T sink a Micro, but my
experiences with our Micro (BANTY) would suggest that several
questions regarding the mentioned Micro sinking need to be asked.
With 400+ pounds of lead ballast and untold pounds of gear on board,
the 'optional' foam flotation doesn't seem so optional to me.....was
the 'sinker' so equipped?
We've sailed BANTY in open water off the coast of North Carolina and
on the Atlantic side of the Florida Keys. I wouldn't relish being
out there in breaking seas, but I can tell you that BANTY can stand
rougher water than we can. You haven't really lived until you've
spent 10 hours slogging dead to windward with spray coming over the
bow every few seconds --uggh.
We've had BANTY's rail in the water several times and even managed to
put the mast IN the water once....I didn't say I was smart, just
enthusiastic! Releasing the main sheet allowed BANTY to instantly
pop back to her feet.....no, dear, I didn't do that on purpose; and
by the way, help me put a double reef in !!
We took plenty of water aboard, but nary a drop below. What were the
weather conditions when the 'sinker' sank? Unless seas breaking
onboard were a factor, you might have to work a bit to get in a
position that would allow water to freely enter via the cockpit
hatch / companionway / vents.
BANTY has opening ports. In all but the lightest air, they are
dogged. When it gets rough, the companionway drop boards, hatch
cover, and vent openings are also secured. Was 'sinker's' cockpit
hatch the only thing open?
We had one experience that was so rough that we sailed (actually, we
furled both sails)with the cockpit cover in place. It was during an
encounter with a waterspout...........ahhhhh, a story for another
time.
Often wet, sometimes water-logged, ocassionally terrified, but not
yet sunk,
John & Susan McDaniel
experiences with our Micro (BANTY) would suggest that several
questions regarding the mentioned Micro sinking need to be asked.
With 400+ pounds of lead ballast and untold pounds of gear on board,
the 'optional' foam flotation doesn't seem so optional to me.....was
the 'sinker' so equipped?
We've sailed BANTY in open water off the coast of North Carolina and
on the Atlantic side of the Florida Keys. I wouldn't relish being
out there in breaking seas, but I can tell you that BANTY can stand
rougher water than we can. You haven't really lived until you've
spent 10 hours slogging dead to windward with spray coming over the
bow every few seconds --uggh.
We've had BANTY's rail in the water several times and even managed to
put the mast IN the water once....I didn't say I was smart, just
enthusiastic! Releasing the main sheet allowed BANTY to instantly
pop back to her feet.....no, dear, I didn't do that on purpose; and
by the way, help me put a double reef in !!
We took plenty of water aboard, but nary a drop below. What were the
weather conditions when the 'sinker' sank? Unless seas breaking
onboard were a factor, you might have to work a bit to get in a
position that would allow water to freely enter via the cockpit
hatch / companionway / vents.
BANTY has opening ports. In all but the lightest air, they are
dogged. When it gets rough, the companionway drop boards, hatch
cover, and vent openings are also secured. Was 'sinker's' cockpit
hatch the only thing open?
We had one experience that was so rough that we sailed (actually, we
furled both sails)with the cockpit cover in place. It was during an
encounter with a waterspout...........ahhhhh, a story for another
time.
Often wet, sometimes water-logged, ocassionally terrified, but not
yet sunk,
John & Susan McDaniel