Re: re:[bolger] PL glue
>I'll be the Marine polyurethane is the same as the other---justThey don't sell this anymore.
>labed differently.
It was actually cheaper than the home improvement sealant!
I compared the ingredients, a little more VOC/solvent in the marine
version, otherwise identical.
So use the home type. Works just as well.
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www2.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by friend.ly.net.]
I'll be the Marine polyurethane is the same as the other---just labed differently. LikeGoop---they label the stuff with different application titles to sell you ten tubes when the same tube would do all.
----- Original Message -----
From: jakeman19652002
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 3:37 PM
Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, julian fouser <jfouser@y...> wrote:
> Hi,
> I am new to the group, and thought that I would add
> my 2 cents. I have used resorsenal,2500, and epoxy,
> all on one boat. the epoxy last because my brother was
>
> building a 24 foot Akins sailing skiff, and there was
> some extra. Anyway all glues worked well for me where
> i used then. about PL, Pl makes a large line of
> products including a polyurathane labled as a marine
> polyurahtane, is this what you are talking about?
> p.s I am building a 19 foot out board skiff, and will
> deffinety use a polyurathane because of the
> flexabilty.
>
> julian
>
>
> =====
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
>http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
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--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, julian fouser <jfouser@y...> wrote:
> Hi,
> I am new to the group, and thought that I would add
> my 2 cents. I have used resorsenal,2500, and epoxy,
> all on one boat. the epoxy last because my brother was
>
> building a 24 foot Akins sailing skiff, and there was
> some extra. Anyway all glues worked well for me where
> i used then. about PL, Pl makes a large line of
> products including a polyurathane labled as a marine
> polyurahtane, is this what you are talking about?
> p.s I am building a 19 foot out board skiff, and will
> deffinety use a polyurathane because of the
> flexabilty.
>
> julian
>
>
> =====
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
>http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, julian fouser <jfouser@y...> wrote:
> Hi,
> I am new to the group, and thought that I would add
> my 2 cents. I have used resorsenal,2500, and epoxy,
> all on one boat. the epoxy last because my brother was
>
> building a 24 foot Akins sailing skiff, and there was
> some extra. Anyway all glues worked well for me where
> i used then. about PL, Pl makes a large line of
> products including a polyurathane labled as a marine
> polyurahtane, is this what you are talking about?
> p.s I am building a 19 foot out board skiff, and will
> deffinety use a polyurathane because of the
> flexabilty.
>
> julian
>
>
> =====
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
>http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
We have had very good luck with PL Premium, a polyurethane construction
glue. It comes in a yellow tube, you use a caulking gun to dispense it. Your
local hardware store should have it.
HJ
glue. It comes in a yellow tube, you use a caulking gun to dispense it. Your
local hardware store should have it.
HJ
> Hi. I am interested in glue. Are ther any glues that are non marine
> that can be used in boat building. Thanks Jake
>
>
Hi. I am interested in glue. Are ther any glues that are non marine
that can be used in boat building. Thanks Jake
that can be used in boat building. Thanks Jake
A couple of times, I have participated in the Sikaflex sponsored Build-a-
Boat contest. Crews were allowed three sheets of Lauan, a limited
amount of 2x2 and 1x2 stick, steel wire and unlimited Sikaflex. Wire
stitches had to be removed and then the boats were raced the following
day. Grand party. I never saw a failure of a glue joint, although some of
the designs were bizarre, and certainly stressed joints well beyond
recommended engineering practice. A number of years later, some of
the boats, and practice builds are still going strong. That stuff is GLUE.
Charles E. Iliff, Jr.
Iliff & Meredith, P.C.
Phone 410-685-1166
Boat contest. Crews were allowed three sheets of Lauan, a limited
amount of 2x2 and 1x2 stick, steel wire and unlimited Sikaflex. Wire
stitches had to be removed and then the boats were raced the following
day. Grand party. I never saw a failure of a glue joint, although some of
the designs were bizarre, and certainly stressed joints well beyond
recommended engineering practice. A number of years later, some of
the boats, and practice builds are still going strong. That stuff is GLUE.
Charles E. Iliff, Jr.
Iliff & Meredith, P.C.
Phone 410-685-1166
On Fri, 30 Mar 2001delliott@...wrote:
Bad joints cannot be saved by good glue (unless they're only a little
bad).
> Lincoln, Are you recommending new and unskilled boatbuilders use 5200Oh, of course he's not. He's saying glue only works where it ought to.
> to glue their boat together? Don
Bad joints cannot be saved by good glue (unless they're only a little
bad).
On Fri, 30 Mar 2001delliott@...wrote:
Perhaps you're aware the Sika/Sikaflex folk sponsor a
quick--and-dirty boatbuilding conference on a regular basis, where people
build, in a couple of hours, a Bolger Teal (rowing version).
They use Sikaflex's polyurethane equivalent of 3M's 5200.
While one may doubt it's effectiveness, I think that the claim
that "no one" recommends this product as a glue is an overstatement.
Many do, including experienced boatbuilders, several designers, and at
least one manufacturer.
> John, I know of no one that recommends this product as a glue.Don:
Perhaps you're aware the Sika/Sikaflex folk sponsor a
quick--and-dirty boatbuilding conference on a regular basis, where people
build, in a couple of hours, a Bolger Teal (rowing version).
They use Sikaflex's polyurethane equivalent of 3M's 5200.
While one may doubt it's effectiveness, I think that the claim
that "no one" recommends this product as a glue is an overstatement.
Many do, including experienced boatbuilders, several designers, and at
least one manufacturer.
Bravo!
This is not "old school", this is Common Sense! I have one of
those old, no glue boats. It only leaks a little.
David Jost
This is not "old school", this is Common Sense! I have one of
those old, no glue boats. It only leaks a little.
David Jost
> built for a long time before any of these glues even were thoughtof.
> The above are the thoughts of an old man from the old school,where
> you had to pound oakum between the planks to keep the water out.When
> your plank spaceing had to be right because if it was too much, ittogether,
> wouldn't swell up enough to seal, or if they were too close
> they would swell up and pull the fasteners out.
> Flame away, Stan Snow Goose. ;-)
On a visit to the Edey and Duff Boat yard last summer. I
noticed one of the workers sanding the wooden teak rails for their
new day sailor (it is not a Bolger, but does have an electric
engine!) I asked him what he used to get the rail bedded down so
beautifully. He said 5200 tan colored. It looks like wood and sands
well when dry.
I considered using it for the rails and gunwales on my Micro but
changed my mind when I found the price for this would be four times
as much as using epoxy. I also considered putting a heavy bead of
this on top of the keel prior to jacking in place, but that too was
more expensive and no more effective than epoxy. It seems like nice
stuff if you can afford it, It is easier to clean up than epoxy (I
used it over and under all the keel bolts that hold the keel batten
on. It is very difficult to work with in cold weather.
I guess this horse is dead. Sorry, but I could not resist
kicking it.
David Jost
"watching the robins break their beaks on frozen worms"
noticed one of the workers sanding the wooden teak rails for their
new day sailor (it is not a Bolger, but does have an electric
engine!) I asked him what he used to get the rail bedded down so
beautifully. He said 5200 tan colored. It looks like wood and sands
well when dry.
I considered using it for the rails and gunwales on my Micro but
changed my mind when I found the price for this would be four times
as much as using epoxy. I also considered putting a heavy bead of
this on top of the keel prior to jacking in place, but that too was
more expensive and no more effective than epoxy. It seems like nice
stuff if you can afford it, It is easier to clean up than epoxy (I
used it over and under all the keel bolts that hold the keel batten
on. It is very difficult to work with in cold weather.
I guess this horse is dead. Sorry, but I could not resist
kicking it.
David Jost
"watching the robins break their beaks on frozen worms"
Hi All,
Since I had the chance to borrow a flame proof suit form our local
fire department, I will offer a comment to add the this thread.
I know this is hard to believe, in our day of stitch and glue, BUT;
if a boat is built right, properly fit, framed out, screwed and or
anchor nailed, it can be done with no glue at all.
With this as a starting point, for my comments; on the Snow Goose
hull, the plywood was anchor nailed to the chines etc. on 1 1/2" centers
the keelson was screwed on staggered 1" centers.
Yes, everything was buttered with marine epoxy as it was being
assembled, But I could have as readily used weldwood, 5200, or whatever,
the strength came from the fasteners, not the adhesive. Boats were being
built for a long time before any of these glues even were thought of.
The above are the thoughts of an old man from the old school, where
you had to pound oakum between the planks to keep the water out. When
your plank spaceing had to be right because if it was too much, it
wouldn't swell up enough to seal, or if they were too close together,
they would swell up and pull the fasteners out.
Flame away, Stan Snow Goose. ;-)
Since I had the chance to borrow a flame proof suit form our local
fire department, I will offer a comment to add the this thread.
I know this is hard to believe, in our day of stitch and glue, BUT;
if a boat is built right, properly fit, framed out, screwed and or
anchor nailed, it can be done with no glue at all.
With this as a starting point, for my comments; on the Snow Goose
hull, the plywood was anchor nailed to the chines etc. on 1 1/2" centers
the keelson was screwed on staggered 1" centers.
Yes, everything was buttered with marine epoxy as it was being
assembled, But I could have as readily used weldwood, 5200, or whatever,
the strength came from the fasteners, not the adhesive. Boats were being
built for a long time before any of these glues even were thought of.
The above are the thoughts of an old man from the old school, where
you had to pound oakum between the planks to keep the water out. When
your plank spaceing had to be right because if it was too much, it
wouldn't swell up enough to seal, or if they were too close together,
they would swell up and pull the fasteners out.
Flame away, Stan Snow Goose. ;-)
Les,
Thanks for the information-packed posting!I enjoyed the links to
the various sites along with the technical information provided.
It has always been my experience that so long as I remain within
the various parameters set out by the manufacturer,for their
product(s),the product will perform as stated.Similarly,any time I
have attempted to use a product,especially any adhesives,outside of
the envelope,any failures/problems I have assumed as my own.
The ability to read and understand instructions provided by
manufactures sure helps keep the panic-parties to a minimum!
Thanks again!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,on the shores of the St.Lawrence...........
Thanks for the information-packed posting!I enjoyed the links to
the various sites along with the technical information provided.
It has always been my experience that so long as I remain within
the various parameters set out by the manufacturer,for their
product(s),the product will perform as stated.Similarly,any time I
have attempted to use a product,especially any adhesives,outside of
the envelope,any failures/problems I have assumed as my own.
The ability to read and understand instructions provided by
manufactures sure helps keep the panic-parties to a minimum!
Thanks again!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,on the shores of the St.Lawrence...........
--- In bolger@y..., pan@b... wrote:
> The link below will take you to the 3M Australia Marine site. They
> are pretty specific about the attributes of 5200 and I think I would
> tend to take their word for it. Large companies usually stay away
> from elaborate claims they can't back up.
>http://www.3m.com/intl/AU/marine/bonding.html
>
> An interesting article on boat repair outline adhesives, sealants,
> and epoxy
>http://www.sailnet.com/collections/outfitting/index.cfm?
> articleid=suelar0169
>http://www.jboats.com/j46/j46SCRIMP.htm
> Also another site with 5200 information.
>http://www.asia-pacificboating.com/article.asp?article=98
> A quote from 3M at this site "Typical surface applications for
> Adhesive-Sealant 5200 include bonding fiberglass to fiberglass and
> wood to fiberglass, making it ideal for portholes and deck
fittings",
> says a spokesman.
> "It can also be used on hull seams above and below the waterline,
and
> when cured, completed in 5-7 days, the bond is exceptionally strong.
> Boaters need to be aware that future separation of the surfaces will
> not be possible"
> I have sent a written request to PL products for applications of
> their product and am waiting for a response. IMHO polyurethane
glues
> are probably safer for new boat builders than epoxy resin and
> fiberglass which require a much higher skill level and knowlege
> base.
> Les
> --- In bolger@y..., "Jim Chamberlin RCSIS" <jchamberlin@r...> wrote:
> > Just goes to show us that there is a world of experiences out
> there. Most
> > of my "glue" comments were based on my experience and the advice
of
> two
> > professional boat builders and numerous hobbyists. I hope my
> enthusiasm for
> > the polyurethane stickems doesn't cause anyone a problem.
> > Jim C.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: delliott@t... [mailto:delliott@t...]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 4:19 PM
> > > To: bolger@y...
> > > Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> > >
> > >
> > > Julian,
> > > I would caution you or anyone from using any type of
> Polyurethane, 5200 or
> > > otherwise for gluing purposes on boats.It is not designed for
> > > this and could
> > > be a dangerous.
> > > Let me tell you a story.
> > > I had a leak on a boat, and I had the devil finding out where
> it was
> > > coming from. This was a fiberglass boat. The bilges were filled
> with water
> > > every time it rained, so one day I sat inside while it rained
and
> watched
> > > for the leak.
> > > What I discovered was the leak was coming from the hull and
> > > deck joint.
> > > I removed the cap over the joint and found that the 5200 sealer
> had dried
> > > out and came out of the joint in hard chunks. I call the boat
> manufacture
> > > and he told me it was 5200 and I would have to reseal the deck.
> > > The heat and high temperature had turned the stuff into
> hardened tar.
> > > Not a good glue, please stick with something proven, your life
> > > may depend on
> > > it. Don
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "julian fouser" <jfouser@y...>
> > > To: <bolger@y...>
> > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 2:33 PM
> > > Subject: re:[bolger] glue
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > > I am new to the group, and thought that I would add
> > > > my 2 cents. I have used resorsenal,2500, and epoxy,
> > > > all on one boat. the epoxy last because my brother was
> > > >
> > > > building a 24 foot Akins sailing skiff, and there was
> > > > some extra. Anyway all glues worked well for me where
> > > > i used then. about PL, Pl makes a large line of
> > > > products including a polyurathane labled as a marine
> > > > polyurahtane, is this what you are talking about?
> > > > p.s I am building a 19 foot out board skiff, and will
> > > > deffinety use a polyurathane because of the
> > > > flexabilty.
> > > >
> > > > julian
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > =====
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> > > >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA,
> > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > - no flogging dead horses
> > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
> MA,
> > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I believe that in the origin of this thred
there was the desscution of construction adhesive,not
just polyurathane. Also I did not meen to give the
impression that I thought that 5200 could or should be
used as the sole bonding agent in boat building,but
that it had some good properties, one being that it is
flexable.
I would not rely on epoxy as the only means of
holding a boat together. But there are many who do,and
some that believe that polyester resin sticks to
wood.
julian
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
there was the desscution of construction adhesive,not
just polyurathane. Also I did not meen to give the
impression that I thought that 5200 could or should be
used as the sole bonding agent in boat building,but
that it had some good properties, one being that it is
flexable.
I would not rely on epoxy as the only means of
holding a boat together. But there are many who do,and
some that believe that polyester resin sticks to
wood.
julian
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
> Some time ago as I recall Phil designed a lapstrake boat that used5200 or Sikaflex .I wish I had the design name but I am sure it was
written up in MAIB...
This is his Shivaree, I think. Aside from the construction method, he
thinks it is an excellant boat. I suppose conventional strip
construction would be the obvious choice.
Peter
Les, I see no point in continuing this topic, you seem to be unable to give
a direct answer. Don
a direct answer. Don
----- Original Message -----
From: <pan@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> I will place the quote from the 3M site here:
> "Bonding and sealing wood to fibreglass, portholes, deck fittings or
> mouldings requires a product having structural strength. High
> performance and durability are important considerations in these
> types of applications; the bond or seal must be extremely strong and
> capable of retaining its strength above or below the waterline.
> Flexibility is also important to allow for dissipation of stress
> caused by shock, vibration, swelling or shrinking. For best results
> use 3M Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200 FC, a one-part moisture-curing
> polyurethane used for structural integrity"
>
> I would have to say that this statement, includes the use of
> polyurethane glue in boat construction. I'm not use you are reading
> the information on the links. I will not have a flame war, and I
> will not be bullied either. Please list some refrences by Marine
> Engineers or qualified boat designers excluding 3M 5200 from boat
> building applications. I will be happy to pass them on the 3M
> corporation.
> Les
>
> --- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> > Les, all I'm trying to do is find out what your meaning is. I
> understand
> > exactly what your links are saying, I'm not so sure you do.
> > I know of no plans by a profession designer that specifies
> Polyurethane
> > sealant for a glue, do you?
> > Are you saying that you recommend using Polyurethane sealant as
> a glue to
> > build boats? This is what I'd like to know. If you are, this is
> very poor
> > advice to be giving out to anyone. Don
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <pan@b...>
> > To: <bolger@y...>
> > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 9:07 AM
> > Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> >
> >
> > > Don, what parts of the links or statements don't you understand?
> I
> > > think my comments and links are quite specific. I will point out
> my
> > > main point in this post,"It would depend on the boat plans and
> what
> > > is specified, some construction plans call for epoxy and there are
> > > mechanical fasteners used. Using mechanical fasteners is also a
> good
> > > idea with polyurethane glues but in some cases is not needed." As
> > > always I refer new builder to the actual designer of the boat.
> > > Les
> > >
> > > --- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> > > > Les, what is it the statement tell you? Don
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: <pan@b...>
> > > > To: <bolger@y...>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 8:35 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Don, by reading their statements.
> > > > > Les
> > > > > --- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> > > > > > Hi Les, and how do you interpret what they are saying. Don
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: <pan@b...>
> > > > > > To: <bolger@y...>
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 8:24 AM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > The link below will take you to the 3M Australia Marine
> site.
> > > > > They
> > > > > > > are pretty specific about the attributes of 5200 and I
> think I
> > > > > would
> > > > > > > tend to take their word for it. Large companies usually
> stay
> > > away
> > > > > > > from elaborate claims they can't back up.
> > > > > > >http://www.3m.com/intl/AU/marine/bonding.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > An interesting article on boat repair outline adhesives,
> > > sealants,
> > > > > > > and epoxy
> > > > > > >http://www.sailnet.com/collections/outfitting/index.cfm?
> > > > > > > articleid=suelar0169
> > > > > > > A quote from this article:
> > > > > > > "Polyurethane adhesive/sealants, like 3M's 5200, are very
> > > popular
> > > > > but
> > > > > > > often misused and even overused by many boaters. These
> > > products
> > > > > > > provide incredible adhesive strength as well as
> > > watertightness,
> > > > > but
> > > > > > > are not necessary unless you require the extra bonding
> > > strength
> > > > > such
> > > > > > > as in hull-to-deck joints or if laying in a keel. You'll
> see
> > > > > > > firsthand this great adhesion if you ever need to remove a
> > > piece
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > deck hardware that was bedded with this type of sealant.
> If
> > > often
> > > > > > > rips the gelcoat right off!"
> > > > > > > Another quote from the J boat site, who have highly
> skilled
> > > and
> > > > > > > talented engineers @
> > > > > > >http://www.jboats.com/j46/j46SCRIMP.htm
> > > > > > > "Extremely strong and watertight hull-to-deck joints are
> > > created
> > > > > by
> > > > > > > chemically bonding the hull/deck flange overlap with 3M
> 5200
> > > and
> > > > > > > Plexus adhesive. This innovation from TPI, used on each
> new
> > > J/Boat
> > > > > > > since the introduction of the J/105, yields a bond that is
> > > proven
> > > > > > > superior in strength to a conventional bolted joint with
> 3M
> > > 5200,
> > > > > > > with less opportunity for leaks, and less weight on deck.
> > > > > Essential
> > > > > > > hardware elements along the deck edge are bolted through
> this
> > > > > joint
> > > > > > > and sealed with Sikaflex bedding compound. Each flange
> (hull &
> > > > > deck)
> > > > > > > is supported with extra glass laminates and designed to
> > > withstand
> > > > > > > high local area stresses from stanchions, rails, &
> blocks."
> > > > > > > Elaborate claims made for epoxy construction by new boat
> > > builders
> > > > > > > must also be considered. Epoxy requires a learning curve
> for
> > > > > > > beginning boat builders. Mixes must be extremely accurate
> > > along
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > not overfilling resins. Surface preparation along with
> > > > > temperature
> > > > > > > is also critical. Polyurethane adhesives are certainly
> > > simpler.
> > > > > It
> > > > > > > would depend on the boat plans and what is specified, some
> > > > > > > construction plans call for epoxy and there are mechanical
> > > > > fasteners
> > > > > > > used. Using mechanical fasteners is also a good idea with
> > > > > > > polyurethane glues but in some cases is not needed.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also another site with 5200 information.
> > > > > > >http://www.asia-pacificboating.com/article.asp?article=98
> > > > > > > A quote from 3M at this site "Typical surface
> applications
> > > for
> > > > > > > Adhesive-Sealant 5200 include bonding fiberglass to
> > > fiberglass and
> > > > > > > wood to fiberglass, making it ideal for portholes and deck
> > > > > fittings",
> > > > > > > says a spokesman.
> > > > > > > "It can also be used on hull seams above and below the
> > > waterline,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > when cured, completed in 5-7 days, the bond is
> exceptionally
> > > > > strong.
> > > > > > > Boaters need to be aware that future separation of the
> > > surfaces
> > > > > will
> > > > > > > not be possible"
> > > > > > > I have sent a written request to PL products for
> > > applications of
> > > > > > > their product and am waiting for a response. IMHO
> > > polyurethane
> > > > > glues
> > > > > > > are probably safer for new boat builders than epoxy resin
> and
> > > > > > > fiberglass which require a much higher skill level and
> > > knowlege
> > > > > > > base.
> > > > > > > Les
> > > > > > > --- In bolger@y..., "Jim Chamberlin RCSIS"
> <jchamberlin@r...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > Just goes to show us that there is a world of
> experiences
> > > out
> > > > > > > there. Most
> > > > > > > > of my "glue" comments were based on my experience and
> the
> > > > > advice of
> > > > > > > two
> > > > > > > > professional boat builders and numerous hobbyists. I
> hope
> > > my
> > > > > > > enthusiasm for
> > > > > > > > the polyurethane stickems doesn't cause anyone a
> problem.
> > > > > > > > Jim C.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > From: delliott@t... [mailto:delliott@t...]
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 4:19 PM
> > > > > > > > > To: bolger@y...
> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Julian,
> > > > > > > > > I would caution you or anyone from using any type of
> > > > > > > Polyurethane, 5200 or
> > > > > > > > > otherwise for gluing purposes on boats.It is not
> designed
> > > for
> > > > > > > > > this and could
> > > > > > > > > be a dangerous.
> > > > > > > > > Let me tell you a story.
> > > > > > > > > I had a leak on a boat, and I had the devil finding
> out
> > > > > where
> > > > > > > it was
> > > > > > > > > coming from. This was a fiberglass boat. The bilges
> were
> > > > > filled
> > > > > > > with water
> > > > > > > > > every time it rained, so one day I sat inside while it
> > > rained
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > watched
> > > > > > > > > for the leak.
> > > > > > > > > What I discovered was the leak was coming from the
> > > hull
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > deck joint.
> > > > > > > > > I removed the cap over the joint and found that the
> 5200
> > > > > sealer
> > > > > > > had dried
> > > > > > > > > out and came out of the joint in hard chunks. I call
> the
> > > boat
> > > > > > > manufacture
> > > > > > > > > and he told me it was 5200 and I would have to reseal
> the
> > > > > deck.
> > > > > > > > > The heat and high temperature had turned the stuff
> > > into
> > > > > > > hardened tar.
> > > > > > > > > Not a good glue, please stick with something proven,
> your
> > > life
> > > > > > > > > may depend on
> > > > > > > > > it. Don
> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > From: "julian fouser" <jfouser@y...>
> > > > > > > > > To: <bolger@y...>
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 2:33 PM
> > > > > > > > > Subject: re:[bolger] glue
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > > > I am new to the group, and thought that I would add
> > > > > > > > > > my 2 cents. I have used resorsenal,2500, and epoxy,
> > > > > > > > > > all on one boat. the epoxy last because my brother
> was
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > building a 24 foot Akins sailing skiff, and there
> was
> > > > > > > > > > some extra. Anyway all glues worked well for me
> where
> > > > > > > > > > i used then. about PL, Pl makes a large line of
> > > > > > > > > > products including a polyurathane labled as a marine
> > > > > > > > > > polyurahtane, is this what you are talking about?
> > > > > > > > > > p.s I am building a 19 foot out board skiff, and
> will
> > > > > > > > > > deffinety use a polyurathane because of the
> > > > > > > > > > flexabilty.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > julian
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > =====
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > > > > > > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> > > > > > > > > >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > > > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > > > > > > > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > > > > > > > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts
> off-
> > > list.
> > > > > > > > > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > > > > > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > > > > > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box
> 1209,
> > > > > > > Gloucester, MA,
> > > > > > > > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > > > > > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > > > > > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-
> list.
> > > > > > > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > > > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > > > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > > > > Gloucester,
> > > > > > > MA,
> > > > > > > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > > > > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > > > > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-
> list.
> > > > > > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > > > > Gloucester, MA,
> > > > > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > > > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > > Gloucester, MA,
> > > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA,
> > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Don, I agree to discontinue this thread, I can't seem to get a direct
question.
Les
question.
Les
--- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> Les, I see no point in continuing this topic, you seem to be unable
to give
> a direct answer. Don
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <pan@b...>
> To: <bolger@y...>
> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 9:40 AM
> Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
>
>
> > I will place the quote from the 3M site here:
> > "Bonding and sealing wood to fibreglass, portholes, deck fittings
or
> > mouldings requires a product having structural strength. High
> > performance and durability are important considerations in these
> > types of applications; the bond or seal must be extremely strong
and
> > capable of retaining its strength above or below the waterline.
> > Flexibility is also important to allow for dissipation of stress
> > caused by shock, vibration, swelling or shrinking. For best
results
> > use 3M Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200 FC, a one-part moisture-curing
> > polyurethane used for structural integrity"
> >
> > I would have to say that this statement, includes the use of
> > polyurethane glue in boat construction. I'm not use you are
reading
> > the information on the links. I will not have a flame war, and I
> > will not be bullied either. Please list some refrences by Marine
> > Engineers or qualified boat designers excluding 3M 5200 from boat
> > building applications. I will be happy to pass them on the 3M
> > corporation.
> > Les
> >
> > --- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> > > Les, all I'm trying to do is find out what your meaning is. I
> > understand
> > > exactly what your links are saying, I'm not so sure you do.
> > > I know of no plans by a profession designer that specifies
> > Polyurethane
> > > sealant for a glue, do you?
> > > Are you saying that you recommend using Polyurethane sealant
as
> > a glue to
> > > build boats? This is what I'd like to know. If you are, this is
> > very poor
> > > advice to be giving out to anyone. Don
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <pan@b...>
> > > To: <bolger@y...>
> > > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 9:07 AM
> > > Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> > >
> > >
> > > > Don, what parts of the links or statements don't you
understand?
> > I
> > > > think my comments and links are quite specific. I will point
out
> > my
> > > > main point in this post,"It would depend on the boat plans and
> > what
> > > > is specified, some construction plans call for epoxy and
there are
> > > > mechanical fasteners used. Using mechanical fasteners is
also a
> > good
> > > > idea with polyurethane glues but in some cases is not
needed." As
> > > > always I refer new builder to the actual designer of the boat.
> > > > Les
> > > >
> > > > --- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> > > > > Les, what is it the statement tell you? Don
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: <pan@b...>
> > > > > To: <bolger@y...>
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 8:35 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Don, by reading their statements.
> > > > > > Les
> > > > > > --- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi Les, and how do you interpret what they are saying.
Don
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: <pan@b...>
> > > > > > > To: <bolger@y...>
> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 8:24 AM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The link below will take you to the 3M Australia
Marine
> > site.
> > > > > > They
> > > > > > > > are pretty specific about the attributes of 5200 and I
> > think I
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > > > tend to take their word for it. Large companies
usually
> > stay
> > > > away
> > > > > > > > from elaborate claims they can't back up.
> > > > > > > >http://www.3m.com/intl/AU/marine/bonding.html
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > An interesting article on boat repair outline
adhesives,
> > > > sealants,
> > > > > > > > and epoxy
> > > > > > > >
http://www.sailnet.com/collections/outfitting/index.cfm?
> > > > > > > > articleid=suelar0169
> > > > > > > > A quote from this article:
> > > > > > > > "Polyurethane adhesive/sealants, like 3M's 5200, are
very
> > > > popular
> > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > often misused and even overused by many boaters.
These
> > > > products
> > > > > > > > provide incredible adhesive strength as well as
> > > > watertightness,
> > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > are not necessary unless you require the extra bonding
> > > > strength
> > > > > > such
> > > > > > > > as in hull-to-deck joints or if laying in a keel.
You'll
> > see
> > > > > > > > firsthand this great adhesion if you ever need to
remove a
> > > > piece
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > deck hardware that was bedded with this type of
sealant.
> > If
> > > > often
> > > > > > > > rips the gelcoat right off!"
> > > > > > > > Another quote from the J boat site, who have highly
> > skilled
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > talented engineers @
> > > > > > > >http://www.jboats.com/j46/j46SCRIMP.htm
> > > > > > > > "Extremely strong and watertight hull-to-deck joints
are
> > > > created
> > > > > > by
> > > > > > > > chemically bonding the hull/deck flange overlap with
3M
> > 5200
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > Plexus adhesive. This innovation from TPI, used on
each
> > new
> > > > J/Boat
> > > > > > > > since the introduction of the J/105, yields a bond
that is
> > > > proven
> > > > > > > > superior in strength to a conventional bolted joint
with
> > 3M
> > > > 5200,
> > > > > > > > with less opportunity for leaks, and less weight on
deck.
> > > > > > Essential
> > > > > > > > hardware elements along the deck edge are bolted
through
> > this
> > > > > > joint
> > > > > > > > and sealed with Sikaflex bedding compound. Each flange
> > (hull &
> > > > > > deck)
> > > > > > > > is supported with extra glass laminates and designed
to
> > > > withstand
> > > > > > > > high local area stresses from stanchions, rails, &
> > blocks."
> > > > > > > > Elaborate claims made for epoxy construction by new
boat
> > > > builders
> > > > > > > > must also be considered. Epoxy requires a learning
curve
> > for
> > > > > > > > beginning boat builders. Mixes must be extremely
accurate
> > > > along
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > not overfilling resins. Surface preparation along
with
> > > > > > temperature
> > > > > > > > is also critical. Polyurethane adhesives are
certainly
> > > > simpler.
> > > > > > It
> > > > > > > > would depend on the boat plans and what is specified,
some
> > > > > > > > construction plans call for epoxy and there are
mechanical
> > > > > > fasteners
> > > > > > > > used. Using mechanical fasteners is also a good idea
with
> > > > > > > > polyurethane glues but in some cases is not needed.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Also another site with 5200 information.
> > > > > > > >http://www.asia-pacificboating.com/article.asp?
article=98
> > > > > > > > A quote from 3M at this site "Typical surface
> > applications
> > > > for
> > > > > > > > Adhesive-Sealant 5200 include bonding fiberglass to
> > > > fiberglass and
> > > > > > > > wood to fiberglass, making it ideal for portholes and
deck
> > > > > > fittings",
> > > > > > > > says a spokesman.
> > > > > > > > "It can also be used on hull seams above and below the
> > > > waterline,
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > when cured, completed in 5-7 days, the bond is
> > exceptionally
> > > > > > strong.
> > > > > > > > Boaters need to be aware that future separation of the
> > > > surfaces
> > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > not be possible"
> > > > > > > > I have sent a written request to PL products for
> > > > applications of
> > > > > > > > their product and am waiting for a response. IMHO
> > > > polyurethane
> > > > > > glues
> > > > > > > > are probably safer for new boat builders than epoxy
resin
> > and
> > > > > > > > fiberglass which require a much higher skill level and
> > > > knowlege
> > > > > > > > base.
> > > > > > > > Les
> > > > > > > > --- In bolger@y..., "Jim Chamberlin RCSIS"
> > <jchamberlin@r...>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Just goes to show us that there is a world of
> > experiences
> > > > out
> > > > > > > > there. Most
> > > > > > > > > of my "glue" comments were based on my experience
and
> > the
> > > > > > advice of
> > > > > > > > two
> > > > > > > > > professional boat builders and numerous hobbyists.
I
> > hope
> > > > my
> > > > > > > > enthusiasm for
> > > > > > > > > the polyurethane stickems doesn't cause anyone a
> > problem.
> > > > > > > > > Jim C.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > > From: delliott@t... [mailto:delliott@t...]
> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 4:19 PM
> > > > > > > > > > To: bolger@y...
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Julian,
> > > > > > > > > > I would caution you or anyone from using any type
of
> > > > > > > > Polyurethane, 5200 or
> > > > > > > > > > otherwise for gluing purposes on boats.It is not
> > designed
> > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > this and could
> > > > > > > > > > be a dangerous.
> > > > > > > > > > Let me tell you a story.
> > > > > > > > > > I had a leak on a boat, and I had the devil
finding
> > out
> > > > > > where
> > > > > > > > it was
> > > > > > > > > > coming from. This was a fiberglass boat. The
bilges
> > were
> > > > > > filled
> > > > > > > > with water
> > > > > > > > > > every time it rained, so one day I sat inside
while it
> > > > rained
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > watched
> > > > > > > > > > for the leak.
> > > > > > > > > > What I discovered was the leak was coming
from the
> > > > hull
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > deck joint.
> > > > > > > > > > I removed the cap over the joint and found that
the
> > 5200
> > > > > > sealer
> > > > > > > > had dried
> > > > > > > > > > out and came out of the joint in hard chunks. I
call
> > the
> > > > boat
> > > > > > > > manufacture
> > > > > > > > > > and he told me it was 5200 and I would have to
reseal
> > the
> > > > > > deck.
> > > > > > > > > > The heat and high temperature had turned the
stuff
> > > > into
> > > > > > > > hardened tar.
> > > > > > > > > > Not a good glue, please stick with something
proven,
> > your
> > > > life
> > > > > > > > > > may depend on
> > > > > > > > > > it. Don
> > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > From: "julian fouser" <jfouser@y...>
> > > > > > > > > > To: <bolger@y...>
> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 2:33 PM
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: re:[bolger] glue
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > > > > I am new to the group, and thought that I
would add
> > > > > > > > > > > my 2 cents. I have used resorsenal,2500, and
epoxy,
> > > > > > > > > > > all on one boat. the epoxy last because my
brother
> > was
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > building a 24 foot Akins sailing skiff, and
there
> > was
> > > > > > > > > > > some extra. Anyway all glues worked well for me
> > where
> > > > > > > > > > > i used then. about PL, Pl makes a large line of
> > > > > > > > > > > products including a polyurathane labled as a
marine
> > > > > > > > > > > polyurahtane, is this what you are talking
about?
> > > > > > > > > > > p.s I am building a 19 foot out board skiff, and
> > will
> > > > > > > > > > > deffinety use a polyurathane because of the
> > > > > > > > > > > flexabilty.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > julian
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > =====
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
__________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > > > > > > > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> > > > > > > > > > >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > > > > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > > > > > > > > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > > > > > > > > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!"
posts
> > off-
> > > > list.
> > > > > > > > > > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > > > > > > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your
posts
> > > > > > > > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box
> > 1209,
> > > > > > > > Gloucester, MA,
> > > > > > > > > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > > > > > > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > > > > > > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts
off-
> > list.
> > > > > > > > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > > > > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > > > > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box
1209,
> > > > > > Gloucester,
> > > > > > > > MA,
> > > > > > > > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > > > > > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > > > > > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts
off-
> > list.
> > > > > > > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > > > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > > > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > > > > > Gloucester, MA,
> > > > > > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > > > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > > > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-
list.
> > > > > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > > > Gloucester, MA,
> > > > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > Gloucester, MA,
> > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > - no flogging dead horses
> > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
Has anyone seen or used the flexible (two-part) epoxy from Pettit? It
appears to be a standard epoxy equivalent of a 5200-like product in that they
promote the ability of the product to flex, while also being easily finished.
Any comments?
Best regards,
Warren
appears to be a standard epoxy equivalent of a 5200-like product in that they
promote the ability of the product to flex, while also being easily finished.
Any comments?
Best regards,
Warren
I will place the quote from the 3M site here:
"Bonding and sealing wood to fibreglass, portholes, deck fittings or
mouldings requires a product having structural strength. High
performance and durability are important considerations in these
types of applications; the bond or seal must be extremely strong and
capable of retaining its strength above or below the waterline.
Flexibility is also important to allow for dissipation of stress
caused by shock, vibration, swelling or shrinking. For best results
use 3M Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200 FC, a one-part moisture-curing
polyurethane used for structural integrity"
I would have to say that this statement, includes the use of
polyurethane glue in boat construction. I'm not use you are reading
the information on the links. I will not have a flame war, and I
will not be bullied either. Please list some refrences by Marine
Engineers or qualified boat designers excluding 3M 5200 from boat
building applications. I will be happy to pass them on the 3M
corporation.
Les
"Bonding and sealing wood to fibreglass, portholes, deck fittings or
mouldings requires a product having structural strength. High
performance and durability are important considerations in these
types of applications; the bond or seal must be extremely strong and
capable of retaining its strength above or below the waterline.
Flexibility is also important to allow for dissipation of stress
caused by shock, vibration, swelling or shrinking. For best results
use 3M Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200 FC, a one-part moisture-curing
polyurethane used for structural integrity"
I would have to say that this statement, includes the use of
polyurethane glue in boat construction. I'm not use you are reading
the information on the links. I will not have a flame war, and I
will not be bullied either. Please list some refrences by Marine
Engineers or qualified boat designers excluding 3M 5200 from boat
building applications. I will be happy to pass them on the 3M
corporation.
Les
--- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> Les, all I'm trying to do is find out what your meaning is. I
understand
> exactly what your links are saying, I'm not so sure you do.
> I know of no plans by a profession designer that specifies
Polyurethane
> sealant for a glue, do you?
> Are you saying that you recommend using Polyurethane sealant as
a glue to
> build boats? This is what I'd like to know. If you are, this is
very poor
> advice to be giving out to anyone. Don
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <pan@b...>
> To: <bolger@y...>
> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 9:07 AM
> Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
>
>
> > Don, what parts of the links or statements don't you understand?
I
> > think my comments and links are quite specific. I will point out
my
> > main point in this post,"It would depend on the boat plans and
what
> > is specified, some construction plans call for epoxy and there are
> > mechanical fasteners used. Using mechanical fasteners is also a
good
> > idea with polyurethane glues but in some cases is not needed." As
> > always I refer new builder to the actual designer of the boat.
> > Les
> >
> > --- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> > > Les, what is it the statement tell you? Don
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <pan@b...>
> > > To: <bolger@y...>
> > > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 8:35 AM
> > > Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi Don, by reading their statements.
> > > > Les
> > > > --- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> > > > > Hi Les, and how do you interpret what they are saying. Don
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: <pan@b...>
> > > > > To: <bolger@y...>
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 8:24 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > The link below will take you to the 3M Australia Marine
site.
> > > > They
> > > > > > are pretty specific about the attributes of 5200 and I
think I
> > > > would
> > > > > > tend to take their word for it. Large companies usually
stay
> > away
> > > > > > from elaborate claims they can't back up.
> > > > > >http://www.3m.com/intl/AU/marine/bonding.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > An interesting article on boat repair outline adhesives,
> > sealants,
> > > > > > and epoxy
> > > > > >http://www.sailnet.com/collections/outfitting/index.cfm?
> > > > > > articleid=suelar0169
> > > > > > A quote from this article:
> > > > > > "Polyurethane adhesive/sealants, like 3M's 5200, are very
> > popular
> > > > but
> > > > > > often misused and even overused by many boaters. These
> > products
> > > > > > provide incredible adhesive strength as well as
> > watertightness,
> > > > but
> > > > > > are not necessary unless you require the extra bonding
> > strength
> > > > such
> > > > > > as in hull-to-deck joints or if laying in a keel. You'll
see
> > > > > > firsthand this great adhesion if you ever need to remove a
> > piece
> > > > of
> > > > > > deck hardware that was bedded with this type of sealant.
If
> > often
> > > > > > rips the gelcoat right off!"
> > > > > > Another quote from the J boat site, who have highly
skilled
> > and
> > > > > > talented engineers @
> > > > > >http://www.jboats.com/j46/j46SCRIMP.htm
> > > > > > "Extremely strong and watertight hull-to-deck joints are
> > created
> > > > by
> > > > > > chemically bonding the hull/deck flange overlap with 3M
5200
> > and
> > > > > > Plexus adhesive. This innovation from TPI, used on each
new
> > J/Boat
> > > > > > since the introduction of the J/105, yields a bond that is
> > proven
> > > > > > superior in strength to a conventional bolted joint with
3M
> > 5200,
> > > > > > with less opportunity for leaks, and less weight on deck.
> > > > Essential
> > > > > > hardware elements along the deck edge are bolted through
this
> > > > joint
> > > > > > and sealed with Sikaflex bedding compound. Each flange
(hull &
> > > > deck)
> > > > > > is supported with extra glass laminates and designed to
> > withstand
> > > > > > high local area stresses from stanchions, rails, &
blocks."
> > > > > > Elaborate claims made for epoxy construction by new boat
> > builders
> > > > > > must also be considered. Epoxy requires a learning curve
for
> > > > > > beginning boat builders. Mixes must be extremely accurate
> > along
> > > > with
> > > > > > not overfilling resins. Surface preparation along with
> > > > temperature
> > > > > > is also critical. Polyurethane adhesives are certainly
> > simpler.
> > > > It
> > > > > > would depend on the boat plans and what is specified, some
> > > > > > construction plans call for epoxy and there are mechanical
> > > > fasteners
> > > > > > used. Using mechanical fasteners is also a good idea with
> > > > > > polyurethane glues but in some cases is not needed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also another site with 5200 information.
> > > > > >http://www.asia-pacificboating.com/article.asp?article=98
> > > > > > A quote from 3M at this site "Typical surface
applications
> > for
> > > > > > Adhesive-Sealant 5200 include bonding fiberglass to
> > fiberglass and
> > > > > > wood to fiberglass, making it ideal for portholes and deck
> > > > fittings",
> > > > > > says a spokesman.
> > > > > > "It can also be used on hull seams above and below the
> > waterline,
> > > > and
> > > > > > when cured, completed in 5-7 days, the bond is
exceptionally
> > > > strong.
> > > > > > Boaters need to be aware that future separation of the
> > surfaces
> > > > will
> > > > > > not be possible"
> > > > > > I have sent a written request to PL products for
> > applications of
> > > > > > their product and am waiting for a response. IMHO
> > polyurethane
> > > > glues
> > > > > > are probably safer for new boat builders than epoxy resin
and
> > > > > > fiberglass which require a much higher skill level and
> > knowlege
> > > > > > base.
> > > > > > Les
> > > > > > --- In bolger@y..., "Jim Chamberlin RCSIS"
<jchamberlin@r...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Just goes to show us that there is a world of
experiences
> > out
> > > > > > there. Most
> > > > > > > of my "glue" comments were based on my experience and
the
> > > > advice of
> > > > > > two
> > > > > > > professional boat builders and numerous hobbyists. I
hope
> > my
> > > > > > enthusiasm for
> > > > > > > the polyurethane stickems doesn't cause anyone a
problem.
> > > > > > > Jim C.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: delliott@t... [mailto:delliott@t...]
> > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 4:19 PM
> > > > > > > > To: bolger@y...
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Julian,
> > > > > > > > I would caution you or anyone from using any type of
> > > > > > Polyurethane, 5200 or
> > > > > > > > otherwise for gluing purposes on boats.It is not
designed
> > for
> > > > > > > > this and could
> > > > > > > > be a dangerous.
> > > > > > > > Let me tell you a story.
> > > > > > > > I had a leak on a boat, and I had the devil finding
out
> > > > where
> > > > > > it was
> > > > > > > > coming from. This was a fiberglass boat. The bilges
were
> > > > filled
> > > > > > with water
> > > > > > > > every time it rained, so one day I sat inside while it
> > rained
> > > > and
> > > > > > watched
> > > > > > > > for the leak.
> > > > > > > > What I discovered was the leak was coming from the
> > hull
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > deck joint.
> > > > > > > > I removed the cap over the joint and found that the
5200
> > > > sealer
> > > > > > had dried
> > > > > > > > out and came out of the joint in hard chunks. I call
the
> > boat
> > > > > > manufacture
> > > > > > > > and he told me it was 5200 and I would have to reseal
the
> > > > deck.
> > > > > > > > The heat and high temperature had turned the stuff
> > into
> > > > > > hardened tar.
> > > > > > > > Not a good glue, please stick with something proven,
your
> > life
> > > > > > > > may depend on
> > > > > > > > it. Don
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: "julian fouser" <jfouser@y...>
> > > > > > > > To: <bolger@y...>
> > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 2:33 PM
> > > > > > > > Subject: re:[bolger] glue
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > > I am new to the group, and thought that I would add
> > > > > > > > > my 2 cents. I have used resorsenal,2500, and epoxy,
> > > > > > > > > all on one boat. the epoxy last because my brother
was
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > building a 24 foot Akins sailing skiff, and there
was
> > > > > > > > > some extra. Anyway all glues worked well for me
where
> > > > > > > > > i used then. about PL, Pl makes a large line of
> > > > > > > > > products including a polyurathane labled as a marine
> > > > > > > > > polyurahtane, is this what you are talking about?
> > > > > > > > > p.s I am building a 19 foot out board skiff, and
will
> > > > > > > > > deffinety use a polyurathane because of the
> > > > > > > > > flexabilty.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > julian
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > =====
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > > > > > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> > > > > > > > >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > > > > > > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > > > > > > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts
off-
> > list.
> > > > > > > > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > > > > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > > > > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box
1209,
> > > > > > Gloucester, MA,
> > > > > > > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > > > > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > > > > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-
list.
> > > > > > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > > > Gloucester,
> > > > > > MA,
> > > > > > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > > > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > > > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-
list.
> > > > > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > > > Gloucester, MA,
> > > > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > Gloucester, MA,
> > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > - no flogging dead horses
> > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
Les, all I'm trying to do is find out what your meaning is. I understand
exactly what your links are saying, I'm not so sure you do.
I know of no plans by a profession designer that specifies Polyurethane
sealant for a glue, do you?
Are you saying that you recommend using Polyurethane sealant as a glue to
build boats? This is what I'd like to know. If you are, this is very poor
advice to be giving out to anyone. Don
exactly what your links are saying, I'm not so sure you do.
I know of no plans by a profession designer that specifies Polyurethane
sealant for a glue, do you?
Are you saying that you recommend using Polyurethane sealant as a glue to
build boats? This is what I'd like to know. If you are, this is very poor
advice to be giving out to anyone. Don
----- Original Message -----
From: <pan@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> Don, what parts of the links or statements don't you understand? I
> think my comments and links are quite specific. I will point out my
> main point in this post,"It would depend on the boat plans and what
> is specified, some construction plans call for epoxy and there are
> mechanical fasteners used. Using mechanical fasteners is also a good
> idea with polyurethane glues but in some cases is not needed." As
> always I refer new builder to the actual designer of the boat.
> Les
>
> --- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> > Les, what is it the statement tell you? Don
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <pan@b...>
> > To: <bolger@y...>
> > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 8:35 AM
> > Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> >
> >
> > > Hi Don, by reading their statements.
> > > Les
> > > --- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> > > > Hi Les, and how do you interpret what they are saying. Don
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: <pan@b...>
> > > > To: <bolger@y...>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 8:24 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > The link below will take you to the 3M Australia Marine site.
> > > They
> > > > > are pretty specific about the attributes of 5200 and I think I
> > > would
> > > > > tend to take their word for it. Large companies usually stay
> away
> > > > > from elaborate claims they can't back up.
> > > > >http://www.3m.com/intl/AU/marine/bonding.html
> > > > >
> > > > > An interesting article on boat repair outline adhesives,
> sealants,
> > > > > and epoxy
> > > > >http://www.sailnet.com/collections/outfitting/index.cfm?
> > > > > articleid=suelar0169
> > > > > A quote from this article:
> > > > > "Polyurethane adhesive/sealants, like 3M's 5200, are very
> popular
> > > but
> > > > > often misused and even overused by many boaters. These
> products
> > > > > provide incredible adhesive strength as well as
> watertightness,
> > > but
> > > > > are not necessary unless you require the extra bonding
> strength
> > > such
> > > > > as in hull-to-deck joints or if laying in a keel. You'll see
> > > > > firsthand this great adhesion if you ever need to remove a
> piece
> > > of
> > > > > deck hardware that was bedded with this type of sealant. If
> often
> > > > > rips the gelcoat right off!"
> > > > > Another quote from the J boat site, who have highly skilled
> and
> > > > > talented engineers @
> > > > >http://www.jboats.com/j46/j46SCRIMP.htm
> > > > > "Extremely strong and watertight hull-to-deck joints are
> created
> > > by
> > > > > chemically bonding the hull/deck flange overlap with 3M 5200
> and
> > > > > Plexus adhesive. This innovation from TPI, used on each new
> J/Boat
> > > > > since the introduction of the J/105, yields a bond that is
> proven
> > > > > superior in strength to a conventional bolted joint with 3M
> 5200,
> > > > > with less opportunity for leaks, and less weight on deck.
> > > Essential
> > > > > hardware elements along the deck edge are bolted through this
> > > joint
> > > > > and sealed with Sikaflex bedding compound. Each flange (hull &
> > > deck)
> > > > > is supported with extra glass laminates and designed to
> withstand
> > > > > high local area stresses from stanchions, rails, & blocks."
> > > > > Elaborate claims made for epoxy construction by new boat
> builders
> > > > > must also be considered. Epoxy requires a learning curve for
> > > > > beginning boat builders. Mixes must be extremely accurate
> along
> > > with
> > > > > not overfilling resins. Surface preparation along with
> > > temperature
> > > > > is also critical. Polyurethane adhesives are certainly
> simpler.
> > > It
> > > > > would depend on the boat plans and what is specified, some
> > > > > construction plans call for epoxy and there are mechanical
> > > fasteners
> > > > > used. Using mechanical fasteners is also a good idea with
> > > > > polyurethane glues but in some cases is not needed.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also another site with 5200 information.
> > > > >http://www.asia-pacificboating.com/article.asp?article=98
> > > > > A quote from 3M at this site "Typical surface applications
> for
> > > > > Adhesive-Sealant 5200 include bonding fiberglass to
> fiberglass and
> > > > > wood to fiberglass, making it ideal for portholes and deck
> > > fittings",
> > > > > says a spokesman.
> > > > > "It can also be used on hull seams above and below the
> waterline,
> > > and
> > > > > when cured, completed in 5-7 days, the bond is exceptionally
> > > strong.
> > > > > Boaters need to be aware that future separation of the
> surfaces
> > > will
> > > > > not be possible"
> > > > > I have sent a written request to PL products for
> applications of
> > > > > their product and am waiting for a response. IMHO
> polyurethane
> > > glues
> > > > > are probably safer for new boat builders than epoxy resin and
> > > > > fiberglass which require a much higher skill level and
> knowlege
> > > > > base.
> > > > > Les
> > > > > --- In bolger@y..., "Jim Chamberlin RCSIS" <jchamberlin@r...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > Just goes to show us that there is a world of experiences
> out
> > > > > there. Most
> > > > > > of my "glue" comments were based on my experience and the
> > > advice of
> > > > > two
> > > > > > professional boat builders and numerous hobbyists. I hope
> my
> > > > > enthusiasm for
> > > > > > the polyurethane stickems doesn't cause anyone a problem.
> > > > > > Jim C.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: delliott@t... [mailto:delliott@t...]
> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 4:19 PM
> > > > > > > To: bolger@y...
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Julian,
> > > > > > > I would caution you or anyone from using any type of
> > > > > Polyurethane, 5200 or
> > > > > > > otherwise for gluing purposes on boats.It is not designed
> for
> > > > > > > this and could
> > > > > > > be a dangerous.
> > > > > > > Let me tell you a story.
> > > > > > > I had a leak on a boat, and I had the devil finding out
> > > where
> > > > > it was
> > > > > > > coming from. This was a fiberglass boat. The bilges were
> > > filled
> > > > > with water
> > > > > > > every time it rained, so one day I sat inside while it
> rained
> > > and
> > > > > watched
> > > > > > > for the leak.
> > > > > > > What I discovered was the leak was coming from the
> hull
> > > and
> > > > > > > deck joint.
> > > > > > > I removed the cap over the joint and found that the 5200
> > > sealer
> > > > > had dried
> > > > > > > out and came out of the joint in hard chunks. I call the
> boat
> > > > > manufacture
> > > > > > > and he told me it was 5200 and I would have to reseal the
> > > deck.
> > > > > > > The heat and high temperature had turned the stuff
> into
> > > > > hardened tar.
> > > > > > > Not a good glue, please stick with something proven, your
> life
> > > > > > > may depend on
> > > > > > > it. Don
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "julian fouser" <jfouser@y...>
> > > > > > > To: <bolger@y...>
> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 2:33 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: re:[bolger] glue
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > I am new to the group, and thought that I would add
> > > > > > > > my 2 cents. I have used resorsenal,2500, and epoxy,
> > > > > > > > all on one boat. the epoxy last because my brother was
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > building a 24 foot Akins sailing skiff, and there was
> > > > > > > > some extra. Anyway all glues worked well for me where
> > > > > > > > i used then. about PL, Pl makes a large line of
> > > > > > > > products including a polyurathane labled as a marine
> > > > > > > > polyurahtane, is this what you are talking about?
> > > > > > > > p.s I am building a 19 foot out board skiff, and will
> > > > > > > > deffinety use a polyurathane because of the
> > > > > > > > flexabilty.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > julian
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > =====
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > > > > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> > > > > > > >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > > > > > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > > > > > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-
> list.
> > > > > > > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > > > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > > > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > > > > Gloucester, MA,
> > > > > > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > > > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > > > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > > > > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > > Gloucester,
> > > > > MA,
> > > > > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > > > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > > Gloucester, MA,
> > > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA,
> > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Don, what parts of the links or statements don't you understand? I
think my comments and links are quite specific. I will point out my
main point in this post,"It would depend on the boat plans and what
is specified, some construction plans call for epoxy and there are
mechanical fasteners used. Using mechanical fasteners is also a good
idea with polyurethane glues but in some cases is not needed." As
always I refer new builder to the actual designer of the boat.
Les
think my comments and links are quite specific. I will point out my
main point in this post,"It would depend on the boat plans and what
is specified, some construction plans call for epoxy and there are
mechanical fasteners used. Using mechanical fasteners is also a good
idea with polyurethane glues but in some cases is not needed." As
always I refer new builder to the actual designer of the boat.
Les
--- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> Les, what is it the statement tell you? Don
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <pan@b...>
> To: <bolger@y...>
> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 8:35 AM
> Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
>
>
> > Hi Don, by reading their statements.
> > Les
> > --- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> > > Hi Les, and how do you interpret what they are saying. Don
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <pan@b...>
> > > To: <bolger@y...>
> > > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 8:24 AM
> > > Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> > >
> > >
> > > > The link below will take you to the 3M Australia Marine site.
> > They
> > > > are pretty specific about the attributes of 5200 and I think I
> > would
> > > > tend to take their word for it. Large companies usually stay
away
> > > > from elaborate claims they can't back up.
> > > >http://www.3m.com/intl/AU/marine/bonding.html
> > > >
> > > > An interesting article on boat repair outline adhesives,
sealants,
> > > > and epoxy
> > > >http://www.sailnet.com/collections/outfitting/index.cfm?
> > > > articleid=suelar0169
> > > > A quote from this article:
> > > > "Polyurethane adhesive/sealants, like 3M's 5200, are very
popular
> > but
> > > > often misused and even overused by many boaters. These
products
> > > > provide incredible adhesive strength as well as
watertightness,
> > but
> > > > are not necessary unless you require the extra bonding
strength
> > such
> > > > as in hull-to-deck joints or if laying in a keel. You'll see
> > > > firsthand this great adhesion if you ever need to remove a
piece
> > of
> > > > deck hardware that was bedded with this type of sealant. If
often
> > > > rips the gelcoat right off!"
> > > > Another quote from the J boat site, who have highly skilled
and
> > > > talented engineers @
> > > >http://www.jboats.com/j46/j46SCRIMP.htm
> > > > "Extremely strong and watertight hull-to-deck joints are
created
> > by
> > > > chemically bonding the hull/deck flange overlap with 3M 5200
and
> > > > Plexus adhesive. This innovation from TPI, used on each new
J/Boat
> > > > since the introduction of the J/105, yields a bond that is
proven
> > > > superior in strength to a conventional bolted joint with 3M
5200,
> > > > with less opportunity for leaks, and less weight on deck.
> > Essential
> > > > hardware elements along the deck edge are bolted through this
> > joint
> > > > and sealed with Sikaflex bedding compound. Each flange (hull &
> > deck)
> > > > is supported with extra glass laminates and designed to
withstand
> > > > high local area stresses from stanchions, rails, & blocks."
> > > > Elaborate claims made for epoxy construction by new boat
builders
> > > > must also be considered. Epoxy requires a learning curve for
> > > > beginning boat builders. Mixes must be extremely accurate
along
> > with
> > > > not overfilling resins. Surface preparation along with
> > temperature
> > > > is also critical. Polyurethane adhesives are certainly
simpler.
> > It
> > > > would depend on the boat plans and what is specified, some
> > > > construction plans call for epoxy and there are mechanical
> > fasteners
> > > > used. Using mechanical fasteners is also a good idea with
> > > > polyurethane glues but in some cases is not needed.
> > > >
> > > > Also another site with 5200 information.
> > > >http://www.asia-pacificboating.com/article.asp?article=98
> > > > A quote from 3M at this site "Typical surface applications
for
> > > > Adhesive-Sealant 5200 include bonding fiberglass to
fiberglass and
> > > > wood to fiberglass, making it ideal for portholes and deck
> > fittings",
> > > > says a spokesman.
> > > > "It can also be used on hull seams above and below the
waterline,
> > and
> > > > when cured, completed in 5-7 days, the bond is exceptionally
> > strong.
> > > > Boaters need to be aware that future separation of the
surfaces
> > will
> > > > not be possible"
> > > > I have sent a written request to PL products for
applications of
> > > > their product and am waiting for a response. IMHO
polyurethane
> > glues
> > > > are probably safer for new boat builders than epoxy resin and
> > > > fiberglass which require a much higher skill level and
knowlege
> > > > base.
> > > > Les
> > > > --- In bolger@y..., "Jim Chamberlin RCSIS" <jchamberlin@r...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > Just goes to show us that there is a world of experiences
out
> > > > there. Most
> > > > > of my "glue" comments were based on my experience and the
> > advice of
> > > > two
> > > > > professional boat builders and numerous hobbyists. I hope
my
> > > > enthusiasm for
> > > > > the polyurethane stickems doesn't cause anyone a problem.
> > > > > Jim C.
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: delliott@t... [mailto:delliott@t...]
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 4:19 PM
> > > > > > To: bolger@y...
> > > > > > Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Julian,
> > > > > > I would caution you or anyone from using any type of
> > > > Polyurethane, 5200 or
> > > > > > otherwise for gluing purposes on boats.It is not designed
for
> > > > > > this and could
> > > > > > be a dangerous.
> > > > > > Let me tell you a story.
> > > > > > I had a leak on a boat, and I had the devil finding out
> > where
> > > > it was
> > > > > > coming from. This was a fiberglass boat. The bilges were
> > filled
> > > > with water
> > > > > > every time it rained, so one day I sat inside while it
rained
> > and
> > > > watched
> > > > > > for the leak.
> > > > > > What I discovered was the leak was coming from the
hull
> > and
> > > > > > deck joint.
> > > > > > I removed the cap over the joint and found that the 5200
> > sealer
> > > > had dried
> > > > > > out and came out of the joint in hard chunks. I call the
boat
> > > > manufacture
> > > > > > and he told me it was 5200 and I would have to reseal the
> > deck.
> > > > > > The heat and high temperature had turned the stuff
into
> > > > hardened tar.
> > > > > > Not a good glue, please stick with something proven, your
life
> > > > > > may depend on
> > > > > > it. Don
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "julian fouser" <jfouser@y...>
> > > > > > To: <bolger@y...>
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 2:33 PM
> > > > > > Subject: re:[bolger] glue
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > I am new to the group, and thought that I would add
> > > > > > > my 2 cents. I have used resorsenal,2500, and epoxy,
> > > > > > > all on one boat. the epoxy last because my brother was
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > building a 24 foot Akins sailing skiff, and there was
> > > > > > > some extra. Anyway all glues worked well for me where
> > > > > > > i used then. about PL, Pl makes a large line of
> > > > > > > products including a polyurathane labled as a marine
> > > > > > > polyurahtane, is this what you are talking about?
> > > > > > > p.s I am building a 19 foot out board skiff, and will
> > > > > > > deffinety use a polyurathane because of the
> > > > > > > flexabilty.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > julian
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > =====
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > > > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> > > > > > >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > > > > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > > > > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-
list.
> > > > > > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > > > Gloucester, MA,
> > > > > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > > > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > Gloucester,
> > > > MA,
> > > > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > Gloucester, MA,
> > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > - no flogging dead horses
> > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
Some time ago as I recall Phil designed a lapstrake boat that used 5200 or
Sikaflex as the adhesive...it was one of his more crafty plans and he had
high hope for it.
In hind sight he found that it was a messy and very expensive way to build a
boat...I wish I had the design name but I am sure it was written up in
MAIB...
From my own personal experience having used 5200 and Sikaflex as adhesives
over the last twenty odd years of boatbuilding...all I have to say is that
life is way too short to use these products except when forced to by the
needs of the application.
Bob
Paradise Connections
St Thomas USVI
http://www.paradiseconnections.com
Sikaflex as the adhesive...it was one of his more crafty plans and he had
high hope for it.
In hind sight he found that it was a messy and very expensive way to build a
boat...I wish I had the design name but I am sure it was written up in
MAIB...
From my own personal experience having used 5200 and Sikaflex as adhesives
over the last twenty odd years of boatbuilding...all I have to say is that
life is way too short to use these products except when forced to by the
needs of the application.
Bob
Paradise Connections
St Thomas USVI
http://www.paradiseconnections.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <pan@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> I will place the quote from the 3M site here:
> "Bonding and sealing wood to fibreglass, portholes, deck fittings or
> mouldings requires a product having structural strength. High
> performance and durability are important considerations in these
> types of applications; the bond or seal must be extremely strong and
> capable of retaining its strength above or below the waterline.
> Flexibility is also important to allow for dissipation of stress
> caused by shock, vibration, swelling or shrinking. For best results
> use 3M Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200 FC, a one-part moisture-curing
> polyurethane used for structural integrity"
>
> I would have to say that this statement, includes the use of
> polyurethane glue in boat construction. I'm not use you are reading
> the information on the links. I will not have a flame war, and I
> will not be bullied either. Please list some refrences by Marine
> Engineers or qualified boat designers excluding 3M 5200 from boat
> building applications. I will be happy to pass them on the 3M
> corporation.
> Les
>
> --- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> > Les, all I'm trying to do is find out what your meaning is. I
> understand
> > exactly what your links are saying, I'm not so sure you do.
> > I know of no plans by a profession designer that specifies
> Polyurethane
> > sealant for a glue, do you?
> > Are you saying that you recommend using Polyurethane sealant as
> a glue to
> > build boats? This is what I'd like to know. If you are, this is
> very poor
> > advice to be giving out to anyone. Don
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <pan@b...>
> > To: <bolger@y...>
> > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 9:07 AM
> > Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> >
> >
> > > Don, what parts of the links or statements don't you understand?
> I
> > > think my comments and links are quite specific. I will point out
> my
> > > main point in this post,"It would depend on the boat plans and
> what
> > > is specified, some construction plans call for epoxy and there are
> > > mechanical fasteners used. Using mechanical fasteners is also a
> good
> > > idea with polyurethane glues but in some cases is not needed." As
> > > always I refer new builder to the actual designer of the boat.
> > > Les
> > >
> > > --- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> > > > Les, what is it the statement tell you? Don
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: <pan@b...>
> > > > To: <bolger@y...>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 8:35 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Don, by reading their statements.
> > > > > Les
> > > > > --- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> > > > > > Hi Les, and how do you interpret what they are saying. Don
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: <pan@b...>
> > > > > > To: <bolger@y...>
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 8:24 AM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > The link below will take you to the 3M Australia Marine
> site.
> > > > > They
> > > > > > > are pretty specific about the attributes of 5200 and I
> think I
> > > > > would
> > > > > > > tend to take their word for it. Large companies usually
> stay
> > > away
> > > > > > > from elaborate claims they can't back up.
> > > > > > >http://www.3m.com/intl/AU/marine/bonding.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > An interesting article on boat repair outline adhesives,
> > > sealants,
> > > > > > > and epoxy
> > > > > > >http://www.sailnet.com/collections/outfitting/index.cfm?
> > > > > > > articleid=suelar0169
> > > > > > > A quote from this article:
> > > > > > > "Polyurethane adhesive/sealants, like 3M's 5200, are very
> > > popular
> > > > > but
> > > > > > > often misused and even overused by many boaters. These
> > > products
> > > > > > > provide incredible adhesive strength as well as
> > > watertightness,
> > > > > but
> > > > > > > are not necessary unless you require the extra bonding
> > > strength
> > > > > such
> > > > > > > as in hull-to-deck joints or if laying in a keel. You'll
> see
> > > > > > > firsthand this great adhesion if you ever need to remove a
> > > piece
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > deck hardware that was bedded with this type of sealant.
> If
> > > often
> > > > > > > rips the gelcoat right off!"
> > > > > > > Another quote from the J boat site, who have highly
> skilled
> > > and
> > > > > > > talented engineers @
> > > > > > >http://www.jboats.com/j46/j46SCRIMP.htm
> > > > > > > "Extremely strong and watertight hull-to-deck joints are
> > > created
> > > > > by
> > > > > > > chemically bonding the hull/deck flange overlap with 3M
> 5200
> > > and
> > > > > > > Plexus adhesive. This innovation from TPI, used on each
> new
> > > J/Boat
> > > > > > > since the introduction of the J/105, yields a bond that is
> > > proven
> > > > > > > superior in strength to a conventional bolted joint with
> 3M
> > > 5200,
> > > > > > > with less opportunity for leaks, and less weight on deck.
> > > > > Essential
> > > > > > > hardware elements along the deck edge are bolted through
> this
> > > > > joint
> > > > > > > and sealed with Sikaflex bedding compound. Each flange
> (hull &
> > > > > deck)
> > > > > > > is supported with extra glass laminates and designed to
> > > withstand
> > > > > > > high local area stresses from stanchions, rails, &
> blocks."
> > > > > > > Elaborate claims made for epoxy construction by new boat
> > > builders
> > > > > > > must also be considered. Epoxy requires a learning curve
> for
> > > > > > > beginning boat builders. Mixes must be extremely accurate
> > > along
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > not overfilling resins. Surface preparation along with
> > > > > temperature
> > > > > > > is also critical. Polyurethane adhesives are certainly
> > > simpler.
> > > > > It
> > > > > > > would depend on the boat plans and what is specified, some
> > > > > > > construction plans call for epoxy and there are mechanical
> > > > > fasteners
> > > > > > > used. Using mechanical fasteners is also a good idea with
> > > > > > > polyurethane glues but in some cases is not needed.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also another site with 5200 information.
> > > > > > >http://www.asia-pacificboating.com/article.asp?article=98
> > > > > > > A quote from 3M at this site "Typical surface
> applications
> > > for
> > > > > > > Adhesive-Sealant 5200 include bonding fiberglass to
> > > fiberglass and
> > > > > > > wood to fiberglass, making it ideal for portholes and deck
> > > > > fittings",
> > > > > > > says a spokesman.
> > > > > > > "It can also be used on hull seams above and below the
> > > waterline,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > when cured, completed in 5-7 days, the bond is
> exceptionally
> > > > > strong.
> > > > > > > Boaters need to be aware that future separation of the
> > > surfaces
> > > > > will
> > > > > > > not be possible"
> > > > > > > I have sent a written request to PL products for
> > > applications of
> > > > > > > their product and am waiting for a response. IMHO
> > > polyurethane
> > > > > glues
> > > > > > > are probably safer for new boat builders than epoxy resin
> and
> > > > > > > fiberglass which require a much higher skill level and
> > > knowlege
> > > > > > > base.
> > > > > > > Les
> > > > > > > --- In bolger@y..., "Jim Chamberlin RCSIS"
> <jchamberlin@r...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > Just goes to show us that there is a world of
> experiences
> > > out
> > > > > > > there. Most
> > > > > > > > of my "glue" comments were based on my experience and
> the
> > > > > advice of
> > > > > > > two
> > > > > > > > professional boat builders and numerous hobbyists. I
> hope
> > > my
> > > > > > > enthusiasm for
> > > > > > > > the polyurethane stickems doesn't cause anyone a
> problem.
> > > > > > > > Jim C.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > From: delliott@t... [mailto:delliott@t...]
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 4:19 PM
> > > > > > > > > To: bolger@y...
> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Julian,
> > > > > > > > > I would caution you or anyone from using any type of
> > > > > > > Polyurethane, 5200 or
> > > > > > > > > otherwise for gluing purposes on boats.It is not
> designed
> > > for
> > > > > > > > > this and could
> > > > > > > > > be a dangerous.
> > > > > > > > > Let me tell you a story.
> > > > > > > > > I had a leak on a boat, and I had the devil finding
> out
> > > > > where
> > > > > > > it was
> > > > > > > > > coming from. This was a fiberglass boat. The bilges
> were
> > > > > filled
> > > > > > > with water
> > > > > > > > > every time it rained, so one day I sat inside while it
> > > rained
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > watched
> > > > > > > > > for the leak.
> > > > > > > > > What I discovered was the leak was coming from the
> > > hull
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > deck joint.
> > > > > > > > > I removed the cap over the joint and found that the
> 5200
> > > > > sealer
> > > > > > > had dried
> > > > > > > > > out and came out of the joint in hard chunks. I call
> the
> > > boat
> > > > > > > manufacture
> > > > > > > > > and he told me it was 5200 and I would have to reseal
> the
> > > > > deck.
> > > > > > > > > The heat and high temperature had turned the stuff
> > > into
> > > > > > > hardened tar.
> > > > > > > > > Not a good glue, please stick with something proven,
> your
> > > life
> > > > > > > > > may depend on
> > > > > > > > > it. Don
> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > From: "julian fouser" <jfouser@y...>
> > > > > > > > > To: <bolger@y...>
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 2:33 PM
> > > > > > > > > Subject: re:[bolger] glue
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > > > I am new to the group, and thought that I would add
> > > > > > > > > > my 2 cents. I have used resorsenal,2500, and epoxy,
> > > > > > > > > > all on one boat. the epoxy last because my brother
> was
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > building a 24 foot Akins sailing skiff, and there
> was
> > > > > > > > > > some extra. Anyway all glues worked well for me
> where
> > > > > > > > > > i used then. about PL, Pl makes a large line of
> > > > > > > > > > products including a polyurathane labled as a marine
> > > > > > > > > > polyurahtane, is this what you are talking about?
> > > > > > > > > > p.s I am building a 19 foot out board skiff, and
> will
> > > > > > > > > > deffinety use a polyurathane because of the
> > > > > > > > > > flexabilty.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > julian
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > =====
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > > > > > > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> > > > > > > > > >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > > > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > > > > > > > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > > > > > > > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts
> off-
> > > list.
> > > > > > > > > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > > > > > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > > > > > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box
> 1209,
> > > > > > > Gloucester, MA,
> > > > > > > > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > > > > > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > > > > > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-
> list.
> > > > > > > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > > > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > > > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > > > > Gloucester,
> > > > > > > MA,
> > > > > > > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > > > > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > > > > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-
> list.
> > > > > > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > > > > Gloucester, MA,
> > > > > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > > > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > > Gloucester, MA,
> > > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA,
> > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Les, what is it the statement tell you? Don
----- Original Message -----
From: <pan@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> Hi Don, by reading their statements.
> Les
> --- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> > Hi Les, and how do you interpret what they are saying. Don
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <pan@b...>
> > To: <bolger@y...>
> > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 8:24 AM
> > Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> >
> >
> > > The link below will take you to the 3M Australia Marine site.
> They
> > > are pretty specific about the attributes of 5200 and I think I
> would
> > > tend to take their word for it. Large companies usually stay away
> > > from elaborate claims they can't back up.
> > >http://www.3m.com/intl/AU/marine/bonding.html
> > >
> > > An interesting article on boat repair outline adhesives, sealants,
> > > and epoxy
> > >http://www.sailnet.com/collections/outfitting/index.cfm?
> > > articleid=suelar0169
> > > A quote from this article:
> > > "Polyurethane adhesive/sealants, like 3M's 5200, are very popular
> but
> > > often misused and even overused by many boaters. These products
> > > provide incredible adhesive strength as well as watertightness,
> but
> > > are not necessary unless you require the extra bonding strength
> such
> > > as in hull-to-deck joints or if laying in a keel. You'll see
> > > firsthand this great adhesion if you ever need to remove a piece
> of
> > > deck hardware that was bedded with this type of sealant. If often
> > > rips the gelcoat right off!"
> > > Another quote from the J boat site, who have highly skilled and
> > > talented engineers @
> > >http://www.jboats.com/j46/j46SCRIMP.htm
> > > "Extremely strong and watertight hull-to-deck joints are created
> by
> > > chemically bonding the hull/deck flange overlap with 3M 5200 and
> > > Plexus adhesive. This innovation from TPI, used on each new J/Boat
> > > since the introduction of the J/105, yields a bond that is proven
> > > superior in strength to a conventional bolted joint with 3M 5200,
> > > with less opportunity for leaks, and less weight on deck.
> Essential
> > > hardware elements along the deck edge are bolted through this
> joint
> > > and sealed with Sikaflex bedding compound. Each flange (hull &
> deck)
> > > is supported with extra glass laminates and designed to withstand
> > > high local area stresses from stanchions, rails, & blocks."
> > > Elaborate claims made for epoxy construction by new boat builders
> > > must also be considered. Epoxy requires a learning curve for
> > > beginning boat builders. Mixes must be extremely accurate along
> with
> > > not overfilling resins. Surface preparation along with
> temperature
> > > is also critical. Polyurethane adhesives are certainly simpler.
> It
> > > would depend on the boat plans and what is specified, some
> > > construction plans call for epoxy and there are mechanical
> fasteners
> > > used. Using mechanical fasteners is also a good idea with
> > > polyurethane glues but in some cases is not needed.
> > >
> > > Also another site with 5200 information.
> > >http://www.asia-pacificboating.com/article.asp?article=98
> > > A quote from 3M at this site "Typical surface applications for
> > > Adhesive-Sealant 5200 include bonding fiberglass to fiberglass and
> > > wood to fiberglass, making it ideal for portholes and deck
> fittings",
> > > says a spokesman.
> > > "It can also be used on hull seams above and below the waterline,
> and
> > > when cured, completed in 5-7 days, the bond is exceptionally
> strong.
> > > Boaters need to be aware that future separation of the surfaces
> will
> > > not be possible"
> > > I have sent a written request to PL products for applications of
> > > their product and am waiting for a response. IMHO polyurethane
> glues
> > > are probably safer for new boat builders than epoxy resin and
> > > fiberglass which require a much higher skill level and knowlege
> > > base.
> > > Les
> > > --- In bolger@y..., "Jim Chamberlin RCSIS" <jchamberlin@r...>
> wrote:
> > > > Just goes to show us that there is a world of experiences out
> > > there. Most
> > > > of my "glue" comments were based on my experience and the
> advice of
> > > two
> > > > professional boat builders and numerous hobbyists. I hope my
> > > enthusiasm for
> > > > the polyurethane stickems doesn't cause anyone a problem.
> > > > Jim C.
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: delliott@t... [mailto:delliott@t...]
> > > > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 4:19 PM
> > > > > To: bolger@y...
> > > > > Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Julian,
> > > > > I would caution you or anyone from using any type of
> > > Polyurethane, 5200 or
> > > > > otherwise for gluing purposes on boats.It is not designed for
> > > > > this and could
> > > > > be a dangerous.
> > > > > Let me tell you a story.
> > > > > I had a leak on a boat, and I had the devil finding out
> where
> > > it was
> > > > > coming from. This was a fiberglass boat. The bilges were
> filled
> > > with water
> > > > > every time it rained, so one day I sat inside while it rained
> and
> > > watched
> > > > > for the leak.
> > > > > What I discovered was the leak was coming from the hull
> and
> > > > > deck joint.
> > > > > I removed the cap over the joint and found that the 5200
> sealer
> > > had dried
> > > > > out and came out of the joint in hard chunks. I call the boat
> > > manufacture
> > > > > and he told me it was 5200 and I would have to reseal the
> deck.
> > > > > The heat and high temperature had turned the stuff into
> > > hardened tar.
> > > > > Not a good glue, please stick with something proven, your life
> > > > > may depend on
> > > > > it. Don
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "julian fouser" <jfouser@y...>
> > > > > To: <bolger@y...>
> > > > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 2:33 PM
> > > > > Subject: re:[bolger] glue
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > I am new to the group, and thought that I would add
> > > > > > my 2 cents. I have used resorsenal,2500, and epoxy,
> > > > > > all on one boat. the epoxy last because my brother was
> > > > > >
> > > > > > building a 24 foot Akins sailing skiff, and there was
> > > > > > some extra. Anyway all glues worked well for me where
> > > > > > i used then. about PL, Pl makes a large line of
> > > > > > products including a polyurathane labled as a marine
> > > > > > polyurahtane, is this what you are talking about?
> > > > > > p.s I am building a 19 foot out board skiff, and will
> > > > > > deffinety use a polyurathane because of the
> > > > > > flexabilty.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > julian
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > =====
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> > > > > >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > > > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > > > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > > > > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > > Gloucester, MA,
> > > > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester,
> > > MA,
> > > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA,
> > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Hi Les, and how do you interpret what they are saying. Don
----- Original Message -----
From: <pan@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> The link below will take you to the 3M Australia Marine site. They
> are pretty specific about the attributes of 5200 and I think I would
> tend to take their word for it. Large companies usually stay away
> from elaborate claims they can't back up.
>http://www.3m.com/intl/AU/marine/bonding.html
>
> An interesting article on boat repair outline adhesives, sealants,
> and epoxy
>http://www.sailnet.com/collections/outfitting/index.cfm?
> articleid=suelar0169
> A quote from this article:
> "Polyurethane adhesive/sealants, like 3M's 5200, are very popular but
> often misused and even overused by many boaters. These products
> provide incredible adhesive strength as well as watertightness, but
> are not necessary unless you require the extra bonding strength such
> as in hull-to-deck joints or if laying in a keel. You'll see
> firsthand this great adhesion if you ever need to remove a piece of
> deck hardware that was bedded with this type of sealant. If often
> rips the gelcoat right off!"
> Another quote from the J boat site, who have highly skilled and
> talented engineers @
>http://www.jboats.com/j46/j46SCRIMP.htm
> "Extremely strong and watertight hull-to-deck joints are created by
> chemically bonding the hull/deck flange overlap with 3M 5200 and
> Plexus adhesive. This innovation from TPI, used on each new J/Boat
> since the introduction of the J/105, yields a bond that is proven
> superior in strength to a conventional bolted joint with 3M 5200,
> with less opportunity for leaks, and less weight on deck. Essential
> hardware elements along the deck edge are bolted through this joint
> and sealed with Sikaflex bedding compound. Each flange (hull & deck)
> is supported with extra glass laminates and designed to withstand
> high local area stresses from stanchions, rails, & blocks."
> Elaborate claims made for epoxy construction by new boat builders
> must also be considered. Epoxy requires a learning curve for
> beginning boat builders. Mixes must be extremely accurate along with
> not overfilling resins. Surface preparation along with temperature
> is also critical. Polyurethane adhesives are certainly simpler. It
> would depend on the boat plans and what is specified, some
> construction plans call for epoxy and there are mechanical fasteners
> used. Using mechanical fasteners is also a good idea with
> polyurethane glues but in some cases is not needed.
>
> Also another site with 5200 information.
>http://www.asia-pacificboating.com/article.asp?article=98
> A quote from 3M at this site "Typical surface applications for
> Adhesive-Sealant 5200 include bonding fiberglass to fiberglass and
> wood to fiberglass, making it ideal for portholes and deck fittings",
> says a spokesman.
> "It can also be used on hull seams above and below the waterline, and
> when cured, completed in 5-7 days, the bond is exceptionally strong.
> Boaters need to be aware that future separation of the surfaces will
> not be possible"
> I have sent a written request to PL products for applications of
> their product and am waiting for a response. IMHO polyurethane glues
> are probably safer for new boat builders than epoxy resin and
> fiberglass which require a much higher skill level and knowlege
> base.
> Les
> --- In bolger@y..., "Jim Chamberlin RCSIS" <jchamberlin@r...> wrote:
> > Just goes to show us that there is a world of experiences out
> there. Most
> > of my "glue" comments were based on my experience and the advice of
> two
> > professional boat builders and numerous hobbyists. I hope my
> enthusiasm for
> > the polyurethane stickems doesn't cause anyone a problem.
> > Jim C.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: delliott@t... [mailto:delliott@t...]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 4:19 PM
> > > To: bolger@y...
> > > Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> > >
> > >
> > > Julian,
> > > I would caution you or anyone from using any type of
> Polyurethane, 5200 or
> > > otherwise for gluing purposes on boats.It is not designed for
> > > this and could
> > > be a dangerous.
> > > Let me tell you a story.
> > > I had a leak on a boat, and I had the devil finding out where
> it was
> > > coming from. This was a fiberglass boat. The bilges were filled
> with water
> > > every time it rained, so one day I sat inside while it rained and
> watched
> > > for the leak.
> > > What I discovered was the leak was coming from the hull and
> > > deck joint.
> > > I removed the cap over the joint and found that the 5200 sealer
> had dried
> > > out and came out of the joint in hard chunks. I call the boat
> manufacture
> > > and he told me it was 5200 and I would have to reseal the deck.
> > > The heat and high temperature had turned the stuff into
> hardened tar.
> > > Not a good glue, please stick with something proven, your life
> > > may depend on
> > > it. Don
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "julian fouser" <jfouser@y...>
> > > To: <bolger@y...>
> > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 2:33 PM
> > > Subject: re:[bolger] glue
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > > I am new to the group, and thought that I would add
> > > > my 2 cents. I have used resorsenal,2500, and epoxy,
> > > > all on one boat. the epoxy last because my brother was
> > > >
> > > > building a 24 foot Akins sailing skiff, and there was
> > > > some extra. Anyway all glues worked well for me where
> > > > i used then. about PL, Pl makes a large line of
> > > > products including a polyurathane labled as a marine
> > > > polyurahtane, is this what you are talking about?
> > > > p.s I am building a 19 foot out board skiff, and will
> > > > deffinety use a polyurathane because of the
> > > > flexabilty.
> > > >
> > > > julian
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > =====
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> > > >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA,
> > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > - no flogging dead horses
> > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
> MA,
> > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Hi Don, by reading their statements.
Les
Les
--- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> Hi Les, and how do you interpret what they are saying. Don
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <pan@b...>
> To: <bolger@y...>
> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 8:24 AM
> Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
>
>
> > The link below will take you to the 3M Australia Marine site.
They
> > are pretty specific about the attributes of 5200 and I think I
would
> > tend to take their word for it. Large companies usually stay away
> > from elaborate claims they can't back up.
> >http://www.3m.com/intl/AU/marine/bonding.html
> >
> > An interesting article on boat repair outline adhesives, sealants,
> > and epoxy
> >http://www.sailnet.com/collections/outfitting/index.cfm?
> > articleid=suelar0169
> > A quote from this article:
> > "Polyurethane adhesive/sealants, like 3M's 5200, are very popular
but
> > often misused and even overused by many boaters. These products
> > provide incredible adhesive strength as well as watertightness,
but
> > are not necessary unless you require the extra bonding strength
such
> > as in hull-to-deck joints or if laying in a keel. You'll see
> > firsthand this great adhesion if you ever need to remove a piece
of
> > deck hardware that was bedded with this type of sealant. If often
> > rips the gelcoat right off!"
> > Another quote from the J boat site, who have highly skilled and
> > talented engineers @
> >http://www.jboats.com/j46/j46SCRIMP.htm
> > "Extremely strong and watertight hull-to-deck joints are created
by
> > chemically bonding the hull/deck flange overlap with 3M 5200 and
> > Plexus adhesive. This innovation from TPI, used on each new J/Boat
> > since the introduction of the J/105, yields a bond that is proven
> > superior in strength to a conventional bolted joint with 3M 5200,
> > with less opportunity for leaks, and less weight on deck.
Essential
> > hardware elements along the deck edge are bolted through this
joint
> > and sealed with Sikaflex bedding compound. Each flange (hull &
deck)
> > is supported with extra glass laminates and designed to withstand
> > high local area stresses from stanchions, rails, & blocks."
> > Elaborate claims made for epoxy construction by new boat builders
> > must also be considered. Epoxy requires a learning curve for
> > beginning boat builders. Mixes must be extremely accurate along
with
> > not overfilling resins. Surface preparation along with
temperature
> > is also critical. Polyurethane adhesives are certainly simpler.
It
> > would depend on the boat plans and what is specified, some
> > construction plans call for epoxy and there are mechanical
fasteners
> > used. Using mechanical fasteners is also a good idea with
> > polyurethane glues but in some cases is not needed.
> >
> > Also another site with 5200 information.
> >http://www.asia-pacificboating.com/article.asp?article=98
> > A quote from 3M at this site "Typical surface applications for
> > Adhesive-Sealant 5200 include bonding fiberglass to fiberglass and
> > wood to fiberglass, making it ideal for portholes and deck
fittings",
> > says a spokesman.
> > "It can also be used on hull seams above and below the waterline,
and
> > when cured, completed in 5-7 days, the bond is exceptionally
strong.
> > Boaters need to be aware that future separation of the surfaces
will
> > not be possible"
> > I have sent a written request to PL products for applications of
> > their product and am waiting for a response. IMHO polyurethane
glues
> > are probably safer for new boat builders than epoxy resin and
> > fiberglass which require a much higher skill level and knowlege
> > base.
> > Les
> > --- In bolger@y..., "Jim Chamberlin RCSIS" <jchamberlin@r...>
wrote:
> > > Just goes to show us that there is a world of experiences out
> > there. Most
> > > of my "glue" comments were based on my experience and the
advice of
> > two
> > > professional boat builders and numerous hobbyists. I hope my
> > enthusiasm for
> > > the polyurethane stickems doesn't cause anyone a problem.
> > > Jim C.
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: delliott@t... [mailto:delliott@t...]
> > > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 4:19 PM
> > > > To: bolger@y...
> > > > Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Julian,
> > > > I would caution you or anyone from using any type of
> > Polyurethane, 5200 or
> > > > otherwise for gluing purposes on boats.It is not designed for
> > > > this and could
> > > > be a dangerous.
> > > > Let me tell you a story.
> > > > I had a leak on a boat, and I had the devil finding out
where
> > it was
> > > > coming from. This was a fiberglass boat. The bilges were
filled
> > with water
> > > > every time it rained, so one day I sat inside while it rained
and
> > watched
> > > > for the leak.
> > > > What I discovered was the leak was coming from the hull
and
> > > > deck joint.
> > > > I removed the cap over the joint and found that the 5200
sealer
> > had dried
> > > > out and came out of the joint in hard chunks. I call the boat
> > manufacture
> > > > and he told me it was 5200 and I would have to reseal the
deck.
> > > > The heat and high temperature had turned the stuff into
> > hardened tar.
> > > > Not a good glue, please stick with something proven, your life
> > > > may depend on
> > > > it. Don
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "julian fouser" <jfouser@y...>
> > > > To: <bolger@y...>
> > > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 2:33 PM
> > > > Subject: re:[bolger] glue
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > > I am new to the group, and thought that I would add
> > > > > my 2 cents. I have used resorsenal,2500, and epoxy,
> > > > > all on one boat. the epoxy last because my brother was
> > > > >
> > > > > building a 24 foot Akins sailing skiff, and there was
> > > > > some extra. Anyway all glues worked well for me where
> > > > > i used then. about PL, Pl makes a large line of
> > > > > products including a polyurathane labled as a marine
> > > > > polyurahtane, is this what you are talking about?
> > > > > p.s I am building a 19 foot out board skiff, and will
> > > > > deffinety use a polyurathane because of the
> > > > > flexabilty.
> > > > >
> > > > > julian
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > =====
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> > > > >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > > > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > Gloucester, MA,
> > > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester,
> > MA,
> > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > - no flogging dead horses
> > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
The link below will take you to the 3M Australia Marine site. They
are pretty specific about the attributes of 5200 and I think I would
tend to take their word for it. Large companies usually stay away
from elaborate claims they can't back up.
http://www.3m.com/intl/AU/marine/bonding.html
An interesting article on boat repair outline adhesives, sealants,
and epoxy
http://www.sailnet.com/collections/outfitting/index.cfm?
articleid=suelar0169
A quote from this article:
"Polyurethane adhesive/sealants, like 3M's 5200, are very popular but
often misused and even overused by many boaters. These products
provide incredible adhesive strength as well as watertightness, but
are not necessary unless you require the extra bonding strength such
as in hull-to-deck joints or if laying in a keel. You'll see
firsthand this great adhesion if you ever need to remove a piece of
deck hardware that was bedded with this type of sealant. If often
rips the gelcoat right off!"
Another quote from the J boat site, who have highly skilled and
talented engineers @
http://www.jboats.com/j46/j46SCRIMP.htm
"Extremely strong and watertight hull-to-deck joints are created by
chemically bonding the hull/deck flange overlap with 3M 5200 and
Plexus adhesive. This innovation from TPI, used on each new J/Boat
since the introduction of the J/105, yields a bond that is proven
superior in strength to a conventional bolted joint with 3M 5200,
with less opportunity for leaks, and less weight on deck. Essential
hardware elements along the deck edge are bolted through this joint
and sealed with Sikaflex bedding compound. Each flange (hull & deck)
is supported with extra glass laminates and designed to withstand
high local area stresses from stanchions, rails, & blocks."
Elaborate claims made for epoxy construction by new boat builders
must also be considered. Epoxy requires a learning curve for
beginning boat builders. Mixes must be extremely accurate along with
not overfilling resins. Surface preparation along with temperature
is also critical. Polyurethane adhesives are certainly simpler. It
would depend on the boat plans and what is specified, some
construction plans call for epoxy and there are mechanical fasteners
used. Using mechanical fasteners is also a good idea with
polyurethane glues but in some cases is not needed.
Also another site with 5200 information.
http://www.asia-pacificboating.com/article.asp?article=98
A quote from 3M at this site "Typical surface applications for
Adhesive-Sealant 5200 include bonding fiberglass to fiberglass and
wood to fiberglass, making it ideal for portholes and deck fittings",
says a spokesman.
"It can also be used on hull seams above and below the waterline, and
when cured, completed in 5-7 days, the bond is exceptionally strong.
Boaters need to be aware that future separation of the surfaces will
not be possible"
I have sent a written request to PL products for applications of
their product and am waiting for a response. IMHO polyurethane glues
are probably safer for new boat builders than epoxy resin and
fiberglass which require a much higher skill level and knowlege
base.
Les
are pretty specific about the attributes of 5200 and I think I would
tend to take their word for it. Large companies usually stay away
from elaborate claims they can't back up.
http://www.3m.com/intl/AU/marine/bonding.html
An interesting article on boat repair outline adhesives, sealants,
and epoxy
http://www.sailnet.com/collections/outfitting/index.cfm?
articleid=suelar0169
A quote from this article:
"Polyurethane adhesive/sealants, like 3M's 5200, are very popular but
often misused and even overused by many boaters. These products
provide incredible adhesive strength as well as watertightness, but
are not necessary unless you require the extra bonding strength such
as in hull-to-deck joints or if laying in a keel. You'll see
firsthand this great adhesion if you ever need to remove a piece of
deck hardware that was bedded with this type of sealant. If often
rips the gelcoat right off!"
Another quote from the J boat site, who have highly skilled and
talented engineers @
http://www.jboats.com/j46/j46SCRIMP.htm
"Extremely strong and watertight hull-to-deck joints are created by
chemically bonding the hull/deck flange overlap with 3M 5200 and
Plexus adhesive. This innovation from TPI, used on each new J/Boat
since the introduction of the J/105, yields a bond that is proven
superior in strength to a conventional bolted joint with 3M 5200,
with less opportunity for leaks, and less weight on deck. Essential
hardware elements along the deck edge are bolted through this joint
and sealed with Sikaflex bedding compound. Each flange (hull & deck)
is supported with extra glass laminates and designed to withstand
high local area stresses from stanchions, rails, & blocks."
Elaborate claims made for epoxy construction by new boat builders
must also be considered. Epoxy requires a learning curve for
beginning boat builders. Mixes must be extremely accurate along with
not overfilling resins. Surface preparation along with temperature
is also critical. Polyurethane adhesives are certainly simpler. It
would depend on the boat plans and what is specified, some
construction plans call for epoxy and there are mechanical fasteners
used. Using mechanical fasteners is also a good idea with
polyurethane glues but in some cases is not needed.
Also another site with 5200 information.
http://www.asia-pacificboating.com/article.asp?article=98
A quote from 3M at this site "Typical surface applications for
Adhesive-Sealant 5200 include bonding fiberglass to fiberglass and
wood to fiberglass, making it ideal for portholes and deck fittings",
says a spokesman.
"It can also be used on hull seams above and below the waterline, and
when cured, completed in 5-7 days, the bond is exceptionally strong.
Boaters need to be aware that future separation of the surfaces will
not be possible"
I have sent a written request to PL products for applications of
their product and am waiting for a response. IMHO polyurethane glues
are probably safer for new boat builders than epoxy resin and
fiberglass which require a much higher skill level and knowlege
base.
Les
--- In bolger@y..., "Jim Chamberlin RCSIS" <jchamberlin@r...> wrote:
> Just goes to show us that there is a world of experiences out
there. Most
> of my "glue" comments were based on my experience and the advice of
two
> professional boat builders and numerous hobbyists. I hope my
enthusiasm for
> the polyurethane stickems doesn't cause anyone a problem.
> Jim C.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: delliott@t... [mailto:delliott@t...]
> > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 4:19 PM
> > To: bolger@y...
> > Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> >
> >
> > Julian,
> > I would caution you or anyone from using any type of
Polyurethane, 5200 or
> > otherwise for gluing purposes on boats.It is not designed for
> > this and could
> > be a dangerous.
> > Let me tell you a story.
> > I had a leak on a boat, and I had the devil finding out where
it was
> > coming from. This was a fiberglass boat. The bilges were filled
with water
> > every time it rained, so one day I sat inside while it rained and
watched
> > for the leak.
> > What I discovered was the leak was coming from the hull and
> > deck joint.
> > I removed the cap over the joint and found that the 5200 sealer
had dried
> > out and came out of the joint in hard chunks. I call the boat
manufacture
> > and he told me it was 5200 and I would have to reseal the deck.
> > The heat and high temperature had turned the stuff into
hardened tar.
> > Not a good glue, please stick with something proven, your life
> > may depend on
> > it. Don
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "julian fouser" <jfouser@y...>
> > To: <bolger@y...>
> > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 2:33 PM
> > Subject: re:[bolger] glue
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> > > I am new to the group, and thought that I would add
> > > my 2 cents. I have used resorsenal,2500, and epoxy,
> > > all on one boat. the epoxy last because my brother was
> > >
> > > building a 24 foot Akins sailing skiff, and there was
> > > some extra. Anyway all glues worked well for me where
> > > i used then. about PL, Pl makes a large line of
> > > products including a polyurathane labled as a marine
> > > polyurahtane, is this what you are talking about?
> > > p.s I am building a 19 foot out board skiff, and will
> > > deffinety use a polyurathane because of the
> > > flexabilty.
> > >
> > > julian
> > >
> > >
> > > =====
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> > >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
> > >
> > >
> > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA,
> > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I would really be interested in Sam Devlin's opinion.
Jim C.
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Jim C.
> -----Original Message-----http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> From:delliott@...[mailto:delliott@...]
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 6:09 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
>
>
> Lincoln
> So, what are you recommending. A good fiberglass joint or 5200 because it
> has a good reputation. Let us know what your investigation finds, until I
> would recommend new builders stick with Epoxy. Don
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lincoln Ross" <lincolnr@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 7:43 PM
> Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
>
>
> > 5200 has a good reputation. Are you sure it wasn't some other issue
> > like surface preparation? Or maybe it was that kind of 5200 that comes
> > from the hardware store on a Friday when the marine place is out of
> > stock, in a tube labelled: latex caulk. Do I vaguely recall that 3M
> > recommends something else other than 5200 for decks? I used to help
> > make oceanographic bouys, which we'd seal with 5200. Seemed pretty
> > tenacious when it was necessary to rework something, but we didn't use
> > it for glue. Also, the design of the joint is important. I think it's
> > very possible to have a bad joint design in fiberglass construction,
> > though I don't pretend to know what a good joint design is, I'd have
> > to do a little investigation.
> >
> > Lincoln, sticking his oar in
> > --- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> > > Julian,
> > > I would caution you or anyone from using any type of Polyurethane,
> > 5200 or
> > > otherwise for gluing purposes on boats.It is not designed for this
> > and could
> > > be a dangerous.
> > > Let me tell you a story.
> > > I had a leak on a boat, and I had the devil finding out where it
> > was
> > > coming from. This was a fiberglass boat. The bilges were filled with
> > water
> > > every time it rained, so one day I sat inside while it rained and
> > watched
> > > for the leak.
> > > What I discovered was the leak was coming from the hull and deck
> > joint.
> > > I removed the cap over the joint and found that the 5200 sealer had
> > dried
> > > out and came out of the joint in hard chunks. I call the boat
> > manufacture
> > > and he told me it was 5200 and I would have to reseal the deck.
> > > The heat and high temperature had turned the stuff into hardened
> > tar.
> > > Not a good glue, please stick with something proven, your life may
> > depend on
> > > it. Don
> > snip
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > - no flogging dead horses
> > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>Bolger rules!!!
>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Just goes to show us that there is a world of experiences out there. Most
of my "glue" comments were based on my experience and the advice of two
professional boat builders and numerous hobbyists. I hope my enthusiasm for
the polyurethane stickems doesn't cause anyone a problem.
Jim C.
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
of my "glue" comments were based on my experience and the advice of two
professional boat builders and numerous hobbyists. I hope my enthusiasm for
the polyurethane stickems doesn't cause anyone a problem.
Jim C.
> -----Original Message-----http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> From:delliott@...[mailto:delliott@...]
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 4:19 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
>
>
> Julian,
> I would caution you or anyone from using any type of Polyurethane, 5200 or
> otherwise for gluing purposes on boats.It is not designed for
> this and could
> be a dangerous.
> Let me tell you a story.
> I had a leak on a boat, and I had the devil finding out where it was
> coming from. This was a fiberglass boat. The bilges were filled with water
> every time it rained, so one day I sat inside while it rained and watched
> for the leak.
> What I discovered was the leak was coming from the hull and
> deck joint.
> I removed the cap over the joint and found that the 5200 sealer had dried
> out and came out of the joint in hard chunks. I call the boat manufacture
> and he told me it was 5200 and I would have to reseal the deck.
> The heat and high temperature had turned the stuff into hardened tar.
> Not a good glue, please stick with something proven, your life
> may depend on
> it. Don
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "julian fouser" <jfouser@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 2:33 PM
> Subject: re:[bolger] glue
>
>
> > Hi,
> > I am new to the group, and thought that I would add
> > my 2 cents. I have used resorsenal,2500, and epoxy,
> > all on one boat. the epoxy last because my brother was
> >
> > building a 24 foot Akins sailing skiff, and there was
> > some extra. Anyway all glues worked well for me where
> > i used then. about PL, Pl makes a large line of
> > products including a polyurathane labled as a marine
> > polyurahtane, is this what you are talking about?
> > p.s I am building a 19 foot out board skiff, and will
> > deffinety use a polyurathane because of the
> > flexabilty.
> >
> > julian
> >
> >
> > =====
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > - no flogging dead horses
> > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>Bolger rules!!!
>
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I'm not using 5200 as a "glue" per se. Nor would I recommend using in the
same way as one might use a real glue like epoxy, either. All my joints are
bedded with 5200 and backed up with mechanical fastenings. I would not ever
advocate using 5200 by itself, they way I would use epoxy. For instance, no
one would suggest laminating or scarfing with 5200.
I feel the correct way to use 5200 is in conjunction with nails, screws, or
bolts. In building an Instant-type boat, I feel it is superior to something
like Weldwood which is not made for marine applications and at least
equivalent to epoxy. It's darn sure less mess and trouble than either
Weldwood or epoxy.
In my current project, 5200 is being used as a bedding compound/adhesive to
attach the timber edges to my plywood bulkheads. The way I'm putting it
together the 5200 is probably superfluous since everything is liberally
fastened with SS ring nails. I intend to continue using it to bed/seal the
bottom to the chine logs and the bulkheads to the topsides. Again,
everything will be liberally nailed. 5200 is there to help keep things from
working loose and also to exclude water and therefore hopefully reduce the
likelihood of rot.
Epoxy will have it's place in my boat too. I'll use it to glue butt blocks
and to scarf together chine logs and gunwales. I also intend to put a fillet
of thickened epoxy around the inside joint between the topsides and the
bottom to help make it easier to clean the boat and to maybe ward off rot in
that rot prone area. I also will use epoxy to put a layer of glass on the
bottom for abrasion resistance.
My point is epoxy is not the only way. In the old days people built boats
using just timber, fastened with nails, spikes, drifts, or even treenails.
They didn't need goops to build their boats and neither do we, really. But
it's hard not to use modern technology to make boatbuilding easier. I could
probably build my AF4 just fine without any goops at all if my carpentry
skills were better. Nails work just fine for holding pieces of wood
together. Even with mediocre carpentry skills, any leaks could be dealt with
the old fashioned way by stuffing cotton in the cracks.
(Tonight just for fun, I've made a test butt joint in plywood with 5200
backed up with ring nails. When I get my epoxy de-crystallized, I'll make an
identical joint to compare. It's going to take a week for the polyurethane
to cure so any testing will have to wait. But I will report my findings
here.)
It's late, and believe it or not I got a bunch of boat work done this
evening: All the bulkheads are done, including the transom and the stem. I'm
going to start laying out the topsides tomorrow. If I didn't have to work
next week, the boat would be 3D by Wednesday! It's so good to be building
again.
Best Regards,
John in Kennesaw
Best,
JB
same way as one might use a real glue like epoxy, either. All my joints are
bedded with 5200 and backed up with mechanical fastenings. I would not ever
advocate using 5200 by itself, they way I would use epoxy. For instance, no
one would suggest laminating or scarfing with 5200.
I feel the correct way to use 5200 is in conjunction with nails, screws, or
bolts. In building an Instant-type boat, I feel it is superior to something
like Weldwood which is not made for marine applications and at least
equivalent to epoxy. It's darn sure less mess and trouble than either
Weldwood or epoxy.
In my current project, 5200 is being used as a bedding compound/adhesive to
attach the timber edges to my plywood bulkheads. The way I'm putting it
together the 5200 is probably superfluous since everything is liberally
fastened with SS ring nails. I intend to continue using it to bed/seal the
bottom to the chine logs and the bulkheads to the topsides. Again,
everything will be liberally nailed. 5200 is there to help keep things from
working loose and also to exclude water and therefore hopefully reduce the
likelihood of rot.
Epoxy will have it's place in my boat too. I'll use it to glue butt blocks
and to scarf together chine logs and gunwales. I also intend to put a fillet
of thickened epoxy around the inside joint between the topsides and the
bottom to help make it easier to clean the boat and to maybe ward off rot in
that rot prone area. I also will use epoxy to put a layer of glass on the
bottom for abrasion resistance.
My point is epoxy is not the only way. In the old days people built boats
using just timber, fastened with nails, spikes, drifts, or even treenails.
They didn't need goops to build their boats and neither do we, really. But
it's hard not to use modern technology to make boatbuilding easier. I could
probably build my AF4 just fine without any goops at all if my carpentry
skills were better. Nails work just fine for holding pieces of wood
together. Even with mediocre carpentry skills, any leaks could be dealt with
the old fashioned way by stuffing cotton in the cracks.
(Tonight just for fun, I've made a test butt joint in plywood with 5200
backed up with ring nails. When I get my epoxy de-crystallized, I'll make an
identical joint to compare. It's going to take a week for the polyurethane
to cure so any testing will have to wait. But I will report my findings
here.)
It's late, and believe it or not I got a bunch of boat work done this
evening: All the bulkheads are done, including the transom and the stem. I'm
going to start laying out the topsides tomorrow. If I didn't have to work
next week, the boat would be 3D by Wednesday! It's so good to be building
again.
Best Regards,
John in Kennesaw
Best,
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: <delliott@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
| John, I know of no one that recommends this product as a glue. Boat
builders
| may use it for a bedding compound but not to build a boat with.
| I am trying is these posts to protect inexperienced and new boatbuilder
| from such advice.
| The boat was eight years old and was a Compac 16, it was store outdoors
all
| it life. Sincerely, Don
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: "John Bell" <jmbell@...>
| To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
| Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 6:36 PM
| Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
|
|
| > If 5200 is so bad, why do so many manufacturers of high-dollar yachts
tout
| > its use in bonding hull to deck joints, bedding keels, and the like? I
| have
| > heard of other types of bedding compounds giving folks problems when
they
| > get old, but not 5200. How old was this particular boat when you had
this
| > problem? My West Marine catalog lists 5200 has having a 20 year life
| > expectancy.
| >
| > I'm not saying this wasn't a problem for you, but lots of very nice
boats
| > have been stuck together with polyurethane adhesives like 5200 and
| Sikaflex
| > and this is the first I've ever heard of anyone having such a severe
| problem
| > with it.
| >
| > At any rate, it's too late for me, because my boat already has lots of
| 5200
| > in it. The goop is backed up with a couple hundred SS ring nails, so I
| doubt
| > I could get it apart if I wanted to.
| >
| > JB
| >
| >
| >
| >
| > ----- Original Message -----
| > From: <delliott@...>
| > To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
| > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 7:19 PM
| > Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
| >
| >
| > | Julian,
| > | I would caution you or anyone from using any type of Polyurethane,
5200
| or
| > | otherwise for gluing purposes on boats.It is not designed for this and
| > could
| > | be a dangerous.
| > | Let me tell you a story.
| > | I had a leak on a boat, and I had the devil finding out where it was
| > | coming from. This was a fiberglass boat. The bilges were filled with
| water
| > | every time it rained, so one day I sat inside while it rained and
| watched
| > | for the leak.
| > | What I discovered was the leak was coming from the hull and deck
| > joint.
| > | I removed the cap over the joint and found that the 5200 sealer had
| dried
| > | out and came out of the joint in hard chunks. I call the boat
| manufacture
| > | and he told me it was 5200 and I would have to reseal the deck.
| > | The heat and high temperature had turned the stuff into hardened
| tar.
| > | Not a good glue, please stick with something proven, your life may
| depend
| > on
| > | it. Don
| > | ----- Original Message -----
| > | From: "julian fouser" <jfouser@...>
| > | To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
| > | Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 2:33 PM
| > | Subject: re:[bolger] glue
| > |
| > |
| > | > Hi,
| > | > I am new to the group, and thought that I would add
| > | > my 2 cents. I have used resorsenal,2500, and epoxy,
| > | > all on one boat. the epoxy last because my brother was
| > | >
| > | > building a 24 foot Akins sailing skiff, and there was
| > | > some extra. Anyway all glues worked well for me where
| > | > i used then. about PL, Pl makes a large line of
| > | > products including a polyurathane labled as a marine
| > | > polyurahtane, is this what you are talking about?
| > | > p.s I am building a 19 foot out board skiff, and will
| > | > deffinety use a polyurathane because of the
| > | > flexabilty.
| > | >
| > | > julian
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > =====
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > __________________________________________________
| > | > Do You Yahoo!?
| > | > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
| > | >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > Bolger rules!!!
| > | > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
| > | > - no flogging dead horses
| > | > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
| > | > - stay on topic and punctuate
| > | > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
| > | > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
MA,
| > | 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
| >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| > |
| > | Bolger rules!!!
| > | - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
| > | - no flogging dead horses
| > | - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
| > | - stay on topic and punctuate
| > | - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
| > | - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
| > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
| > |
| > |
| > | Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
|http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
| >
| > Bolger rules!!!
| > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
| > - no flogging dead horses
| > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
| > - stay on topic and punctuate
| > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
| > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
| 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
| >
| >
| > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
| >
| >
|
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
| - no flogging dead horses
| - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
| - stay on topic and punctuate
| - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
| - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
|
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
|
No, I was just pointing out some possible reasons why it might have
failed. I know other people have made the recommendation, though. a
friend of mine who has built a number of boats said that he thought
5200 was the thing to use on a Brick. Don't know if it reaches the
same level of adhesion on fiberglass, particularly if it still has
mold release or curing wax on it. I haven't used the stuff on a boat
yet, though it is intended for marine use. If my use of PL Premium
holds up another season, I'd recommend that for boats in casual,
recreational use. Michalak already passes along word of positive
experiences on the part of other boatbuilders with it. I wouldn't use
it for an ocean cruiser, obviously. With ingenuity, any glue can be
made to fail.
I'm not sure I take the point about unskilled boatbuilders. 5200 seems
like one of the easier products to use, if not to clean up.
failed. I know other people have made the recommendation, though. a
friend of mine who has built a number of boats said that he thought
5200 was the thing to use on a Brick. Don't know if it reaches the
same level of adhesion on fiberglass, particularly if it still has
mold release or curing wax on it. I haven't used the stuff on a boat
yet, though it is intended for marine use. If my use of PL Premium
holds up another season, I'd recommend that for boats in casual,
recreational use. Michalak already passes along word of positive
experiences on the part of other boatbuilders with it. I wouldn't use
it for an ocean cruiser, obviously. With ingenuity, any glue can be
made to fail.
I'm not sure I take the point about unskilled boatbuilders. 5200 seems
like one of the easier products to use, if not to clean up.
--- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> Lincoln,
> Are you recommending new and unskilled boatbuilders use 5200 to glue
their
> boat together? Don
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lincoln Ross" <lincolnr@m...>
> To: <bolger@y...>
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 9:59 PM
> Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
>
>
> > I think you misunderstood me. You have to get the right details of
how
> > the two pieces come together before you can make your glue work.
I'm
> > recommending nothing without knowing more. I just know there are
> > details that can make even a good adhesive fail. If you can set up
the
> > joint so it's loaded in shear instead of a load that is trying to
> > "peel" it, it'll be stronger. I would think for something like a
> > Brick, 5200 would be great. (I think ours was made with Weldwood).
If
> > I was making one myself I'd probably use PL Premium, unless I was
> > trying to get rid of excess epoxy, and maybe even then.
> > --- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> > > Lincoln
> > > So, what are you recommending. A good fiberglass joint or 5200
> > because it
> > > has a good reputation. Let us know what your investigation
finds,
> > until I
> > > would recommend new builders stick with Epoxy. Don
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Lincoln Ross" <lincolnr@m...>
> > > To: <bolger@y...>
> > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 7:43 PM
> > > Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> > >
> > >
> > > > 5200 has a good reputation. Are you sure it wasn't some other
> > issue
> > > > like surface preparation? Or maybe it was that kind of 5200
that
> > comes
> > > > from the hardware store on a Friday when the marine place is
out
> > of
> > > > stock, in a tube labelled: latex caulk. Do I vaguely recall
that
> > 3M
> > > > recommends something else other than 5200 for decks? I used to
> > help
> > > > make oceanographic bouys, which we'd seal with 5200. Seemed
pretty
> > > > tenacious when it was necessary to rework something, but we
didn't
> > use
> > > > it for glue. Also, the design of the joint is important. I
think
> > it's
> > > > very possible to have a bad joint design in fiberglass
> > construction,
> > > > though I don't pretend to know what a good joint design is,
I'd
> > have
> > > > to do a little investigation.
> > > >
> > > > Lincoln, sticking his oar in
> > > > --- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> > > > > Julian,
> > > > > I would caution you or anyone from using any type of
> > Polyurethane,
> > > > 5200 or
> > > > > otherwise for gluing purposes on boats.It is not designed
for
> > this
> > > > and could
> > > > > be a dangerous.
> > > > > Let me tell you a story.
> > > > > I had a leak on a boat, and I had the devil finding out
where
> > it
> > > > was
> > > > > coming from. This was a fiberglass boat. The bilges were
filled
> > with
> > > > water
> > > > > every time it rained, so one day I sat inside while it
rained
> > and
> > > > watched
> > > > > for the leak.
> > > > > What I discovered was the leak was coming from the hull
and
> > deck
> > > > joint.
> > > > > I removed the cap over the joint and found that the 5200
sealer
> > had
> > > > dried
> > > > > out and came out of the joint in hard chunks. I call the
boat
> > > > manufacture
> > > > > and he told me it was 5200 and I would have to reseal the
deck.
> > > > > The heat and high temperature had turned the stuff into
> > hardened
> > > > tar.
> > > > > Not a good glue, please stick with something proven, your
life
> > may
> > > > depend on
> > > > > it. Don
> > > > snip
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester,
> > MA,
> > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > - no flogging dead horses
> > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
Lincoln,
Are you recommending new and unskilled boatbuilders use 5200 to glue their
boat together? Don
Are you recommending new and unskilled boatbuilders use 5200 to glue their
boat together? Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lincoln Ross" <lincolnr@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> I think you misunderstood me. You have to get the right details of how
> the two pieces come together before you can make your glue work. I'm
> recommending nothing without knowing more. I just know there are
> details that can make even a good adhesive fail. If you can set up the
> joint so it's loaded in shear instead of a load that is trying to
> "peel" it, it'll be stronger. I would think for something like a
> Brick, 5200 would be great. (I think ours was made with Weldwood). If
> I was making one myself I'd probably use PL Premium, unless I was
> trying to get rid of excess epoxy, and maybe even then.
> --- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> > Lincoln
> > So, what are you recommending. A good fiberglass joint or 5200
> because it
> > has a good reputation. Let us know what your investigation finds,
> until I
> > would recommend new builders stick with Epoxy. Don
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lincoln Ross" <lincolnr@m...>
> > To: <bolger@y...>
> > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 7:43 PM
> > Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> >
> >
> > > 5200 has a good reputation. Are you sure it wasn't some other
> issue
> > > like surface preparation? Or maybe it was that kind of 5200 that
> comes
> > > from the hardware store on a Friday when the marine place is out
> of
> > > stock, in a tube labelled: latex caulk. Do I vaguely recall that
> 3M
> > > recommends something else other than 5200 for decks? I used to
> help
> > > make oceanographic bouys, which we'd seal with 5200. Seemed pretty
> > > tenacious when it was necessary to rework something, but we didn't
> use
> > > it for glue. Also, the design of the joint is important. I think
> it's
> > > very possible to have a bad joint design in fiberglass
> construction,
> > > though I don't pretend to know what a good joint design is, I'd
> have
> > > to do a little investigation.
> > >
> > > Lincoln, sticking his oar in
> > > --- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> > > > Julian,
> > > > I would caution you or anyone from using any type of
> Polyurethane,
> > > 5200 or
> > > > otherwise for gluing purposes on boats.It is not designed for
> this
> > > and could
> > > > be a dangerous.
> > > > Let me tell you a story.
> > > > I had a leak on a boat, and I had the devil finding out where
> it
> > > was
> > > > coming from. This was a fiberglass boat. The bilges were filled
> with
> > > water
> > > > every time it rained, so one day I sat inside while it rained
> and
> > > watched
> > > > for the leak.
> > > > What I discovered was the leak was coming from the hull and
> deck
> > > joint.
> > > > I removed the cap over the joint and found that the 5200 sealer
> had
> > > dried
> > > > out and came out of the joint in hard chunks. I call the boat
> > > manufacture
> > > > and he told me it was 5200 and I would have to reseal the deck.
> > > > The heat and high temperature had turned the stuff into
> hardened
> > > tar.
> > > > Not a good glue, please stick with something proven, your life
> may
> > > depend on
> > > > it. Don
> > > snip
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > > - no flogging dead horses
> > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
> MA,
> > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
I think you misunderstood me. You have to get the right details of how
the two pieces come together before you can make your glue work. I'm
recommending nothing without knowing more. I just know there are
details that can make even a good adhesive fail. If you can set up the
joint so it's loaded in shear instead of a load that is trying to
"peel" it, it'll be stronger. I would think for something like a
Brick, 5200 would be great. (I think ours was made with Weldwood). If
I was making one myself I'd probably use PL Premium, unless I was
trying to get rid of excess epoxy, and maybe even then.
the two pieces come together before you can make your glue work. I'm
recommending nothing without knowing more. I just know there are
details that can make even a good adhesive fail. If you can set up the
joint so it's loaded in shear instead of a load that is trying to
"peel" it, it'll be stronger. I would think for something like a
Brick, 5200 would be great. (I think ours was made with Weldwood). If
I was making one myself I'd probably use PL Premium, unless I was
trying to get rid of excess epoxy, and maybe even then.
--- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> Lincoln
> So, what are you recommending. A good fiberglass joint or 5200
because it
> has a good reputation. Let us know what your investigation finds,
until I
> would recommend new builders stick with Epoxy. Don
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lincoln Ross" <lincolnr@m...>
> To: <bolger@y...>
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 7:43 PM
> Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
>
>
> > 5200 has a good reputation. Are you sure it wasn't some other
issue
> > like surface preparation? Or maybe it was that kind of 5200 that
comes
> > from the hardware store on a Friday when the marine place is out
of
> > stock, in a tube labelled: latex caulk. Do I vaguely recall that
3M
> > recommends something else other than 5200 for decks? I used to
help
> > make oceanographic bouys, which we'd seal with 5200. Seemed pretty
> > tenacious when it was necessary to rework something, but we didn't
use
> > it for glue. Also, the design of the joint is important. I think
it's
> > very possible to have a bad joint design in fiberglass
construction,
> > though I don't pretend to know what a good joint design is, I'd
have
> > to do a little investigation.
> >
> > Lincoln, sticking his oar in
> > --- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> > > Julian,
> > > I would caution you or anyone from using any type of
Polyurethane,
> > 5200 or
> > > otherwise for gluing purposes on boats.It is not designed for
this
> > and could
> > > be a dangerous.
> > > Let me tell you a story.
> > > I had a leak on a boat, and I had the devil finding out where
it
> > was
> > > coming from. This was a fiberglass boat. The bilges were filled
with
> > water
> > > every time it rained, so one day I sat inside while it rained
and
> > watched
> > > for the leak.
> > > What I discovered was the leak was coming from the hull and
deck
> > joint.
> > > I removed the cap over the joint and found that the 5200 sealer
had
> > dried
> > > out and came out of the joint in hard chunks. I call the boat
> > manufacture
> > > and he told me it was 5200 and I would have to reseal the deck.
> > > The heat and high temperature had turned the stuff into
hardened
> > tar.
> > > Not a good glue, please stick with something proven, your life
may
> > depend on
> > > it. Don
> > snip
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > - no flogging dead horses
> > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
Lincoln
So, what are you recommending. A good fiberglass joint or 5200 because it
has a good reputation. Let us know what your investigation finds, until I
would recommend new builders stick with Epoxy. Don
So, what are you recommending. A good fiberglass joint or 5200 because it
has a good reputation. Let us know what your investigation finds, until I
would recommend new builders stick with Epoxy. Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lincoln Ross" <lincolnr@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> 5200 has a good reputation. Are you sure it wasn't some other issue
> like surface preparation? Or maybe it was that kind of 5200 that comes
> from the hardware store on a Friday when the marine place is out of
> stock, in a tube labelled: latex caulk. Do I vaguely recall that 3M
> recommends something else other than 5200 for decks? I used to help
> make oceanographic bouys, which we'd seal with 5200. Seemed pretty
> tenacious when it was necessary to rework something, but we didn't use
> it for glue. Also, the design of the joint is important. I think it's
> very possible to have a bad joint design in fiberglass construction,
> though I don't pretend to know what a good joint design is, I'd have
> to do a little investigation.
>
> Lincoln, sticking his oar in
> --- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> > Julian,
> > I would caution you or anyone from using any type of Polyurethane,
> 5200 or
> > otherwise for gluing purposes on boats.It is not designed for this
> and could
> > be a dangerous.
> > Let me tell you a story.
> > I had a leak on a boat, and I had the devil finding out where it
> was
> > coming from. This was a fiberglass boat. The bilges were filled with
> water
> > every time it rained, so one day I sat inside while it rained and
> watched
> > for the leak.
> > What I discovered was the leak was coming from the hull and deck
> joint.
> > I removed the cap over the joint and found that the 5200 sealer had
> dried
> > out and came out of the joint in hard chunks. I call the boat
> manufacture
> > and he told me it was 5200 and I would have to reseal the deck.
> > The heat and high temperature had turned the stuff into hardened
> tar.
> > Not a good glue, please stick with something proven, your life may
> depend on
> > it. Don
> snip
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
5200 has a good reputation. Are you sure it wasn't some other issue
like surface preparation? Or maybe it was that kind of 5200 that comes
from the hardware store on a Friday when the marine place is out of
stock, in a tube labelled: latex caulk. Do I vaguely recall that 3M
recommends something else other than 5200 for decks? I used to help
make oceanographic bouys, which we'd seal with 5200. Seemed pretty
tenacious when it was necessary to rework something, but we didn't use
it for glue. Also, the design of the joint is important. I think it's
very possible to have a bad joint design in fiberglass construction,
though I don't pretend to know what a good joint design is, I'd have
to do a little investigation.
Lincoln, sticking his oar in
like surface preparation? Or maybe it was that kind of 5200 that comes
from the hardware store on a Friday when the marine place is out of
stock, in a tube labelled: latex caulk. Do I vaguely recall that 3M
recommends something else other than 5200 for decks? I used to help
make oceanographic bouys, which we'd seal with 5200. Seemed pretty
tenacious when it was necessary to rework something, but we didn't use
it for glue. Also, the design of the joint is important. I think it's
very possible to have a bad joint design in fiberglass construction,
though I don't pretend to know what a good joint design is, I'd have
to do a little investigation.
Lincoln, sticking his oar in
--- In bolger@y..., delliott@t... wrote:
> Julian,
> I would caution you or anyone from using any type of Polyurethane,
5200 or
> otherwise for gluing purposes on boats.It is not designed for this
and could
> be a dangerous.
> Let me tell you a story.
> I had a leak on a boat, and I had the devil finding out where it
was
> coming from. This was a fiberglass boat. The bilges were filled with
water
> every time it rained, so one day I sat inside while it rained and
watched
> for the leak.
> What I discovered was the leak was coming from the hull and deck
joint.
> I removed the cap over the joint and found that the 5200 sealer had
dried
> out and came out of the joint in hard chunks. I call the boat
manufacture
> and he told me it was 5200 and I would have to reseal the deck.
> The heat and high temperature had turned the stuff into hardened
tar.
> Not a good glue, please stick with something proven, your life may
depend on
> it. Don
snip
John, I know of no one that recommends this product as a glue. Boat builders
may use it for a bedding compound but not to build a boat with.
I am trying is these posts to protect inexperienced and new boatbuilder
from such advice.
The boat was eight years old and was a Compac 16, it was store outdoors all
it life. Sincerely, Don
may use it for a bedding compound but not to build a boat with.
I am trying is these posts to protect inexperienced and new boatbuilder
from such advice.
The boat was eight years old and was a Compac 16, it was store outdoors all
it life. Sincerely, Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Bell" <jmbell@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
> If 5200 is so bad, why do so many manufacturers of high-dollar yachts tout
> its use in bonding hull to deck joints, bedding keels, and the like? I
have
> heard of other types of bedding compounds giving folks problems when they
> get old, but not 5200. How old was this particular boat when you had this
> problem? My West Marine catalog lists 5200 has having a 20 year life
> expectancy.
>
> I'm not saying this wasn't a problem for you, but lots of very nice boats
> have been stuck together with polyurethane adhesives like 5200 and
Sikaflex
> and this is the first I've ever heard of anyone having such a severe
problem
> with it.
>
> At any rate, it's too late for me, because my boat already has lots of
5200
> in it. The goop is backed up with a couple hundred SS ring nails, so I
doubt
> I could get it apart if I wanted to.
>
> JB
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <delliott@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 7:19 PM
> Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
>
>
> | Julian,
> | I would caution you or anyone from using any type of Polyurethane, 5200
or
> | otherwise for gluing purposes on boats.It is not designed for this and
> could
> | be a dangerous.
> | Let me tell you a story.
> | I had a leak on a boat, and I had the devil finding out where it was
> | coming from. This was a fiberglass boat. The bilges were filled with
water
> | every time it rained, so one day I sat inside while it rained and
watched
> | for the leak.
> | What I discovered was the leak was coming from the hull and deck
> joint.
> | I removed the cap over the joint and found that the 5200 sealer had
dried
> | out and came out of the joint in hard chunks. I call the boat
manufacture
> | and he told me it was 5200 and I would have to reseal the deck.
> | The heat and high temperature had turned the stuff into hardened
tar.
> | Not a good glue, please stick with something proven, your life may
depend
> on
> | it. Don
> | ----- Original Message -----
> | From: "julian fouser" <jfouser@...>
> | To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> | Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 2:33 PM
> | Subject: re:[bolger] glue
> |
> |
> | > Hi,
> | > I am new to the group, and thought that I would add
> | > my 2 cents. I have used resorsenal,2500, and epoxy,
> | > all on one boat. the epoxy last because my brother was
> | >
> | > building a 24 foot Akins sailing skiff, and there was
> | > some extra. Anyway all glues worked well for me where
> | > i used then. about PL, Pl makes a large line of
> | > products including a polyurathane labled as a marine
> | > polyurahtane, is this what you are talking about?
> | > p.s I am building a 19 foot out board skiff, and will
> | > deffinety use a polyurathane because of the
> | > flexabilty.
> | >
> | > julian
> | >
> | >
> | > =====
> | >
> | >
> | > __________________________________________________
> | > Do You Yahoo!?
> | > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> | >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
> | >
> | >
> | > Bolger rules!!!
> | > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> | > - no flogging dead horses
> | > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> | > - stay on topic and punctuate
> | > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> | > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> | 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> | >
> | >
> | > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> | >
> | >
> |
> |
> |
> | Bolger rules!!!
> | - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> | - no flogging dead horses
> | - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> | - stay on topic and punctuate
> | - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> | - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> |
> |
> | Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> |
> |
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
don, All I can say to that is that I built a cheap
skiff of about 18" and gluded 3/4" ex ply to the
bottom
and 1/2" ex ply to the sides using 5200,and after 5
years of pounding in the long island cop it is just
fine,maybe it is all those galvaized house nails and
the full frame. In that case the 5200 would just be
an expensive bedding compound, and i could have used
roof cement,as has been done for many years.
julian
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
skiff of about 18" and gluded 3/4" ex ply to the
bottom
and 1/2" ex ply to the sides using 5200,and after 5
years of pounding in the long island cop it is just
fine,maybe it is all those galvaized house nails and
the full frame. In that case the 5200 would just be
an expensive bedding compound, and i could have used
roof cement,as has been done for many years.
julian
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
If 5200 is so bad, why do so many manufacturers of high-dollar yachts tout
its use in bonding hull to deck joints, bedding keels, and the like? I have
heard of other types of bedding compounds giving folks problems when they
get old, but not 5200. How old was this particular boat when you had this
problem? My West Marine catalog lists 5200 has having a 20 year life
expectancy.
I'm not saying this wasn't a problem for you, but lots of very nice boats
have been stuck together with polyurethane adhesives like 5200 and Sikaflex
and this is the first I've ever heard of anyone having such a severe problem
with it.
At any rate, it's too late for me, because my boat already has lots of 5200
in it. The goop is backed up with a couple hundred SS ring nails, so I doubt
I could get it apart if I wanted to.
JB
its use in bonding hull to deck joints, bedding keels, and the like? I have
heard of other types of bedding compounds giving folks problems when they
get old, but not 5200. How old was this particular boat when you had this
problem? My West Marine catalog lists 5200 has having a 20 year life
expectancy.
I'm not saying this wasn't a problem for you, but lots of very nice boats
have been stuck together with polyurethane adhesives like 5200 and Sikaflex
and this is the first I've ever heard of anyone having such a severe problem
with it.
At any rate, it's too late for me, because my boat already has lots of 5200
in it. The goop is backed up with a couple hundred SS ring nails, so I doubt
I could get it apart if I wanted to.
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: <delliott@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 7:19 PM
Subject: Re: re:[bolger] glue
| Julian,
| I would caution you or anyone from using any type of Polyurethane, 5200 or
| otherwise for gluing purposes on boats.It is not designed for this and
could
| be a dangerous.
| Let me tell you a story.
| I had a leak on a boat, and I had the devil finding out where it was
| coming from. This was a fiberglass boat. The bilges were filled with water
| every time it rained, so one day I sat inside while it rained and watched
| for the leak.
| What I discovered was the leak was coming from the hull and deck
joint.
| I removed the cap over the joint and found that the 5200 sealer had dried
| out and came out of the joint in hard chunks. I call the boat manufacture
| and he told me it was 5200 and I would have to reseal the deck.
| The heat and high temperature had turned the stuff into hardened tar.
| Not a good glue, please stick with something proven, your life may depend
on
| it. Don
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: "julian fouser" <jfouser@...>
| To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
| Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 2:33 PM
| Subject: re:[bolger] glue
|
|
| > Hi,
| > I am new to the group, and thought that I would add
| > my 2 cents. I have used resorsenal,2500, and epoxy,
| > all on one boat. the epoxy last because my brother was
| >
| > building a 24 foot Akins sailing skiff, and there was
| > some extra. Anyway all glues worked well for me where
| > i used then. about PL, Pl makes a large line of
| > products including a polyurathane labled as a marine
| > polyurahtane, is this what you are talking about?
| > p.s I am building a 19 foot out board skiff, and will
| > deffinety use a polyurathane because of the
| > flexabilty.
| >
| > julian
| >
| >
| > =====
| >
| >
| > __________________________________________________
| > Do You Yahoo!?
| > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
| >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
| >
| >
| > Bolger rules!!!
| > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
| > - no flogging dead horses
| > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
| > - stay on topic and punctuate
| > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
| > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
| 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
| >
| >
| > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
| >
| >
|
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
| - no flogging dead horses
| - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
| - stay on topic and punctuate
| - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
| - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
|
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
Julian,
I would caution you or anyone from using any type of Polyurethane, 5200 or
otherwise for gluing purposes on boats.It is not designed for this and could
be a dangerous.
Let me tell you a story.
I had a leak on a boat, and I had the devil finding out where it was
coming from. This was a fiberglass boat. The bilges were filled with water
every time it rained, so one day I sat inside while it rained and watched
for the leak.
What I discovered was the leak was coming from the hull and deck joint.
I removed the cap over the joint and found that the 5200 sealer had dried
out and came out of the joint in hard chunks. I call the boat manufacture
and he told me it was 5200 and I would have to reseal the deck.
The heat and high temperature had turned the stuff into hardened tar.
Not a good glue, please stick with something proven, your life may depend on
it. Don
I would caution you or anyone from using any type of Polyurethane, 5200 or
otherwise for gluing purposes on boats.It is not designed for this and could
be a dangerous.
Let me tell you a story.
I had a leak on a boat, and I had the devil finding out where it was
coming from. This was a fiberglass boat. The bilges were filled with water
every time it rained, so one day I sat inside while it rained and watched
for the leak.
What I discovered was the leak was coming from the hull and deck joint.
I removed the cap over the joint and found that the 5200 sealer had dried
out and came out of the joint in hard chunks. I call the boat manufacture
and he told me it was 5200 and I would have to reseal the deck.
The heat and high temperature had turned the stuff into hardened tar.
Not a good glue, please stick with something proven, your life may depend on
it. Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "julian fouser" <jfouser@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 2:33 PM
Subject: re:[bolger] glue
> Hi,
> I am new to the group, and thought that I would add
> my 2 cents. I have used resorsenal,2500, and epoxy,
> all on one boat. the epoxy last because my brother was
>
> building a 24 foot Akins sailing skiff, and there was
> some extra. Anyway all glues worked well for me where
> i used then. about PL, Pl makes a large line of
> products including a polyurathane labled as a marine
> polyurahtane, is this what you are talking about?
> p.s I am building a 19 foot out board skiff, and will
> deffinety use a polyurathane because of the
> flexabilty.
>
> julian
>
>
> =====
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
As a carpenter of some 25 year I have had my share of
construction adhesive, primarily for putting down
plywood decking. and always wondered if it would stand
up in boat use. Well I am glad to know that it will.
ps I have seen PL polyurahtane at home depot, in a
tube that go in one of those caulking guns.
Under 4 bucks i think.
julian
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construction adhesive, primarily for putting down
plywood decking. and always wondered if it would stand
up in boat use. Well I am glad to know that it will.
ps I have seen PL polyurahtane at home depot, in a
tube that go in one of those caulking guns.
Under 4 bucks i think.
julian
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
In my case it was PL Premium construction adhesive, from Home Despot.
Yes, I know I should have gone to a store not owned by the Borg or
Darth Vader, but it was late and they've already driven out many of
the other places. Anyway, I haven't put it in the water much, but it
was fairly nice to work with and set up even in fairly cold
temperatures (after a week!). It seems to hold up ok on my repairs to
the daggerboard (leeboard) on the brick after a little idiocy with a
rock, at least for a few times out. Michalak says others have used
this with success, and the price is good. Comes in one of those
dispenser tube that you put in a caulking gun.
Yes, I know I should have gone to a store not owned by the Borg or
Darth Vader, but it was late and they've already driven out many of
the other places. Anyway, I haven't put it in the water much, but it
was fairly nice to work with and set up even in fairly cold
temperatures (after a week!). It seems to hold up ok on my repairs to
the daggerboard (leeboard) on the brick after a little idiocy with a
rock, at least for a few times out. Michalak says others have used
this with success, and the price is good. Comes in one of those
dispenser tube that you put in a caulking gun.
--- In bolger@y..., julian fouser <jfouser@y...> wrote:
> Hi,
> I am new to the group, and thought that I would add
> my 2 cents. I have used resorsenal,2500, and epoxy,
> all on one boat. the epoxy last because my brother was
>
> building a 24 foot Akins sailing skiff, and there was
> some extra. Anyway all glues worked well for me where
> i used then. about PL, Pl makes a large line of
> products including a polyurathane labled as a marine
> polyurahtane, is this what you are talking about?
> p.s I am building a 19 foot out board skiff, and will
> deffinety use a polyurathane because of the
> flexabilty.
>
> julian
>
>
> =====
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
>http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
Hi,
I am new to the group, and thought that I would add
my 2 cents. I have used resorsenal,2500, and epoxy,
all on one boat. the epoxy last because my brother was
building a 24 foot Akins sailing skiff, and there was
some extra. Anyway all glues worked well for me where
i used then. about PL, Pl makes a large line of
products including a polyurathane labled as a marine
polyurahtane, is this what you are talking about?
p.s I am building a 19 foot out board skiff, and will
deffinety use a polyurathane because of the
flexabilty.
julian
=====
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
I am new to the group, and thought that I would add
my 2 cents. I have used resorsenal,2500, and epoxy,
all on one boat. the epoxy last because my brother was
building a 24 foot Akins sailing skiff, and there was
some extra. Anyway all glues worked well for me where
i used then. about PL, Pl makes a large line of
products including a polyurathane labled as a marine
polyurahtane, is this what you are talking about?
p.s I am building a 19 foot out board skiff, and will
deffinety use a polyurathane because of the
flexabilty.
julian
=====
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text