Re: flotation for June Bug
Thanks for all the thoughtful replies to my question about floatation
for my June Bug. I think I will pack the space with some form of
styrofoam, but leave a space for storing small items inside,
accessible through a deck plate. I should then have the best of both
worlds, safety and storage.
Michael Galvin
Muskegon, MI
for my June Bug. I think I will pack the space with some form of
styrofoam, but leave a space for storing small items inside,
accessible through a deck plate. I should then have the best of both
worlds, safety and storage.
Michael Galvin
Muskegon, MI
That's what we did. We started with 4" of foam under the total deck;
though Payson's book doesn't specify flotation as far as I recall. It
floats just fine awash like this, but there's no way to both climb into the
boat AND bale.
We enclosed the fore, middle, and aft sections "hollow" (against my earlier
"foam" advice ;-), though the plans do show them free-flooding. Then, I
added a huge bilge pump; the idea is to float high enough - actually, just
displace enough water when rolling back up - to be able to pump it out.
You might be able to add bailors and sail off the wind, but, boy, that's a
LOT of water in that big scooner. Speaking off, I think the Coast Guard's
rule is something like below 21 feet=positive bouyancy, so the 23' scooner
might be exempt.
Anyway, I'm just pointing out that floating awash even in the lake is a
little over-rated, depending on what your time's worth! Self-bailing is
not easy though.
Gregg
At 10:13 PM 4/1/2001 -0500, you wrote:
though Payson's book doesn't specify flotation as far as I recall. It
floats just fine awash like this, but there's no way to both climb into the
boat AND bale.
We enclosed the fore, middle, and aft sections "hollow" (against my earlier
"foam" advice ;-), though the plans do show them free-flooding. Then, I
added a huge bilge pump; the idea is to float high enough - actually, just
displace enough water when rolling back up - to be able to pump it out.
You might be able to add bailors and sail off the wind, but, boy, that's a
LOT of water in that big scooner. Speaking off, I think the Coast Guard's
rule is something like below 21 feet=positive bouyancy, so the 23' scooner
might be exempt.
Anyway, I'm just pointing out that floating awash even in the lake is a
little over-rated, depending on what your time's worth! Self-bailing is
not easy though.
Gregg
At 10:13 PM 4/1/2001 -0500, you wrote:
><snip>01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>> We added more floation (than the plans mandate) as soon as it dried
>> out. So, I wouldn't cut myself short here even with arguments
>> about "protected" water, only sailing on sunny Sundays, and all.
>>
>> For what it's worth... Gregg Carlson
>>
>Still, if you had installed closed flotation areas, your experience would
>not been nearly as onerous. It would seem to have worked as well as foam in
>this particular instance.
>
>Chuck
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
>- no flogging dead horses
>- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>- stay on topic and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
I completed a June Bug last summer and did exactly as you described.
The foam weighs something, I think I realized a net reduction in the
weight of the boat by substituting the plywood bulkheads for the
flotation foam. I leave the deck plates open when the boat is stored
so I don't have to worry about rot. I've never gotten even a small
amount of water in either compartment in approximately 10 outings.
I've never swamped the boat to see how high it floats; when the water
warms up I might try this.
I have a photo that shows the stern deck plate installed. I'll post
it when I get a chance.
Mike
The foam weighs something, I think I realized a net reduction in the
weight of the boat by substituting the plywood bulkheads for the
flotation foam. I leave the deck plates open when the boat is stored
so I don't have to worry about rot. I've never gotten even a small
amount of water in either compartment in approximately 10 outings.
I've never swamped the boat to see how high it floats; when the water
warms up I might try this.
I have a photo that shows the stern deck plate installed. I'll post
it when I get a chance.
Mike
--- In bolger@y..., michaelgalvin@h... wrote:
> I am building a Bolger June Bug and am now preparing to install
> flotation. The bow and stern sections seem ideal locations for
> styrofoam flotation. I initially planned to enclose the foam under
> the foredeck and afterdeck, sealing the areas with vertical
bulkheads
> set along the edges of the foredeck and afterdeck.
>
> It dawned on me, I might just create floatation chambers, sealing
off
> the foredeck and afterdeck areas completely, not installing the
foam
> at all. I could then install screw-in deck plates to provide
access
> to these enclosed areas.
>
> The only disadvantage of flotation chambers without foam that I can
> imagine is that if the integrity of the chambers was breached in a
> collision, I'd sink.
>
> Any thoughts on this?
<snip>
not been nearly as onerous. It would seem to have worked as well as foam in
this particular instance.
Chuck
> We added more floation (than the plans mandate) as soon as it driedStill, if you had installed closed flotation areas, your experience would
> out. So, I wouldn't cut myself short here even with arguments
> about "protected" water, only sailing on sunny Sundays, and all.
>
> For what it's worth... Gregg Carlson
>
not been nearly as onerous. It would seem to have worked as well as foam in
this particular instance.
Chuck
If it is a flotation chamber that will be forever
sealed ( hopefully ) how about a thinned coating of epoxy on the
foam packing peanuts as they are installed?
much like buttering popcorn. That way if the chamber is
breached
the foam would stick to itself and to the chamber
sides.
James
----- Original Message -----From:Stan MullerSent:Sunday, April 01, 2001 11:32 AMSubject:Re: [bolger] flotation for June Bug> The only disadvantage of flotation chambers without foam that I can
> imagine is that if the integrity of the chambers was breached in a
> collision, I'd sink.
This is why the USCG disallows flotation chambers that are connected
to the hull, i.e.; share a side of the chamber with the hull structure.
The easy fix is to fill the chamber with milk jugs, soda bottles, or
even bubble wrap.
Best regards, Stan Snow Goose.
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
> The only disadvantage of flotation chambers without foam that I canThis is why the USCG disallows flotation chambers that are connected
> imagine is that if the integrity of the chambers was breached in a
> collision, I'd sink.
to the hull, i.e.; share a side of the chamber with the hull structure.
The easy fix is to fill the chamber with milk jugs, soda bottles, or
even bubble wrap.
Best regards, Stan Snow Goose.
I'm not sure what site I gleaned the following strategy but I think
it is pretty good. Whoever it was built flotation chambers fore and
aft as you suggest however he also filled the chamber with
packaging peanuts (in plastic bags). This belt and suspenders
approach certainly has a lot of merit. Peanuts are cheap as are the
bags and really only come into play if the chamber is stove in or
otherwise leaks. It is also a lot easier that trying to cut sheets of
foam to fit the way I did for my "Teal". I don't believe I would count
on flotation chambers alone. If I were to use chambers alone I would
glass the inside essentially building it like the water or fuel tanks
detailed in Gougeons book on WEST construction.
it is pretty good. Whoever it was built flotation chambers fore and
aft as you suggest however he also filled the chamber with
packaging peanuts (in plastic bags). This belt and suspenders
approach certainly has a lot of merit. Peanuts are cheap as are the
bags and really only come into play if the chamber is stove in or
otherwise leaks. It is also a lot easier that trying to cut sheets of
foam to fit the way I did for my "Teal". I don't believe I would count
on flotation chambers alone. If I were to use chambers alone I would
glass the inside essentially building it like the water or fuel tanks
detailed in Gougeons book on WEST construction.
--- In bolger@y..., michaelgalvin@h... wrote:
> I am building a Bolger June Bug and am now preparing to install
> flotation. The bow and stern sections seem ideal locations for
> styrofoam flotation. I initially planned to enclose the foam under
> the foredeck and afterdeck, sealing the areas with vertical
bulkheads
> set along the edges of the foredeck and afterdeck.
>
> It dawned on me, I might just create floatation chambers, sealing
off
> the foredeck and afterdeck areas completely, not installing the foam
> at all. I could then install screw-in deck plates to provide access
> to these enclosed areas.
>
> The only disadvantage of flotation chambers without foam that I can
> imagine is that if the integrity of the chambers was breached in a
> collision, I'd sink.
>
> Any thoughts on this?
Using floatation volume for storage is certainly a univerally
appealing idea, but the Coast Guard rules don't allow it.
I'm not an advocate of following all the rules one can find, and you
might not get caught by whoever inspects your boat for licensing in
your state, but you won't be strictly legal.
We swamped our light scooner one day on our perfectly well-protected
lake, but it was early in the year, and it was cold. Floating awash,
in the, oh, 2 hours it would have taken us to drift that 1/2 mile
ashore, we had plenty of time to discuss just how we would drag those
2 tons of water over the bolders and up a 30 incline to bail. No one
sank, but the whole affair got a little old quicker than you might
think.
We added more floation (than the plans mandate) as soon as it dried
out. So, I wouldn't cut myself short here even with arguments
about "protected" water, only sailing on sunny Sundays, and all.
For what it's worth... Gregg Carlson
appealing idea, but the Coast Guard rules don't allow it.
I'm not an advocate of following all the rules one can find, and you
might not get caught by whoever inspects your boat for licensing in
your state, but you won't be strictly legal.
We swamped our light scooner one day on our perfectly well-protected
lake, but it was early in the year, and it was cold. Floating awash,
in the, oh, 2 hours it would have taken us to drift that 1/2 mile
ashore, we had plenty of time to discuss just how we would drag those
2 tons of water over the bolders and up a 30 incline to bail. No one
sank, but the whole affair got a little old quicker than you might
think.
We added more floation (than the plans mandate) as soon as it dried
out. So, I wouldn't cut myself short here even with arguments
about "protected" water, only sailing on sunny Sundays, and all.
For what it's worth... Gregg Carlson
--- In bolger@y..., StepHydro@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 04/01/2001 11:<BR16:<BR56 AM
> Eastern Daylight, michaelgalvin@h... writes:
> > The only disadvantage of flotation chambers without foam that I c
> > imagine is that if the integrity of the chambers was breached in
> > collision, I'd sink.
>
> Not neccessarily...not even probably :-) Your boat will float even
if flooded
> because of the positive buoyancy of the wood. Likely you couldn't
reboard an
> bail, hence the advantage of floatation.
>
> And then, is it likely that both your floatation chambers would be
holed at
> the same time? Remote, I'd guess. I think in a small boat like the
JB,
> accessible but sealed floatation chambers is a fine idea. The
caveat is this:
> If you live in a climate where the water is likely to be
dangerously cold
> when you are using the boat, then using foam is a life safety
matter.
>
> Cheers/Carron
> in the not-so-sunny southland, USA
--- In bolger@y..., michaelgalvin@h... wrote:
with air flotation chambers. His main concern
is that access hatches need to be water-tight,
and are best if situated where the hatch is
clear of the water with the boat on its ear:
i.e. on the centerline and relatively narrow.
Also, that hatches need to be kept closed and
dogged down while the boat is in use. The threaded
deck plates you mention are good, although they
have relatively small openings, so you can not
store anything big in the areas, and the deck will
probably have to be removed in the area requires
repairs- no real big problem.
My own opinion is that the chambers do need hatches
of some sort, as the boat can be stored with the
hatches open, promoting ventilation and reducing
the likelyhood of rot. There also needs to be
a way of draining water from these compartments
(which can be the hatches on a boat small enough
to turn over.)
There has never been a "sealed" compartment on
any boat that did not accumulate water. I have
personally run into this problem on a 24 ft
custom-built welded aluminum boat that I used
to own, that had a double bottom, allegedly
welded "air-tight" that acculated over 100 gallons
of water over about 10 years. I was amazed
that a "professional" builder would even have
tried such a thing. I had to pay another
"professional" to cut the thing open, drain
the water, and install drains.
Which just goes to show you that "professional"
builders don't know it all.
> I am building a Bolger June Bug and am now preparing to installbulkheads
> flotation. The bow and stern sections seem ideal locations for
> styrofoam flotation. I initially planned to enclose the foam under
> the foredeck and afterdeck, sealing the areas with vertical
> set along the edges of the foredeck and afterdeck.off
>
> It dawned on me, I might just create floatation chambers, sealing
> the foredeck and afterdeck areas completely, not installing thefoam
> at all. I could then install screw-in deck plates to provideaccess
> to these enclosed areas.Jim Michalak has designs for many small boats
>
> The only disadvantage of flotation chambers without foam that I can
> imagine is that if the integrity of the chambers was breached in a
> collision, I'd sink.
>
> Any thoughts on this?
with air flotation chambers. His main concern
is that access hatches need to be water-tight,
and are best if situated where the hatch is
clear of the water with the boat on its ear:
i.e. on the centerline and relatively narrow.
Also, that hatches need to be kept closed and
dogged down while the boat is in use. The threaded
deck plates you mention are good, although they
have relatively small openings, so you can not
store anything big in the areas, and the deck will
probably have to be removed in the area requires
repairs- no real big problem.
My own opinion is that the chambers do need hatches
of some sort, as the boat can be stored with the
hatches open, promoting ventilation and reducing
the likelyhood of rot. There also needs to be
a way of draining water from these compartments
(which can be the hatches on a boat small enough
to turn over.)
There has never been a "sealed" compartment on
any boat that did not accumulate water. I have
personally run into this problem on a 24 ft
custom-built welded aluminum boat that I used
to own, that had a double bottom, allegedly
welded "air-tight" that acculated over 100 gallons
of water over about 10 years. I was amazed
that a "professional" builder would even have
tried such a thing. I had to pay another
"professional" to cut the thing open, drain
the water, and install drains.
Which just goes to show you that "professional"
builders don't know it all.
In a message dated 04/01/2001 11:<BR16:<BR56 AM
Eastern Daylight,michaelgalvin@...writes:
because of the positive buoyancy of the wood. Likely you couldn't reboard an
bail, hence the advantage of floatation.
And then, is it likely that both your floatation chambers would be holed at
the same time? Remote, I'd guess. I think in a small boat like the JB,
accessible but sealed floatation chambers is a fine idea. The caveat is this:
If you live in a climate where the water is likely to be dangerously cold
when you are using the boat, then using foam is a life safety matter.
Cheers/Carron
in the not-so-sunny southland, USA
Eastern Daylight,michaelgalvin@...writes:
> The only disadvantage of flotation chambers without foam that I canNot neccessarily...not even probably :-) Your boat will float even if flooded
> imagine is that if the integrity of the chambers was breached in a
> collision, I'd sink.
because of the positive buoyancy of the wood. Likely you couldn't reboard an
bail, hence the advantage of floatation.
And then, is it likely that both your floatation chambers would be holed at
the same time? Remote, I'd guess. I think in a small boat like the JB,
accessible but sealed floatation chambers is a fine idea. The caveat is this:
If you live in a climate where the water is likely to be dangerously cold
when you are using the boat, then using foam is a life safety matter.
Cheers/Carron
in the not-so-sunny southland, USA
I am building a Bolger June Bug and am now preparing to install
flotation. The bow and stern sections seem ideal locations for
styrofoam flotation. I initially planned to enclose the foam under
the foredeck and afterdeck, sealing the areas with vertical bulkheads
set along the edges of the foredeck and afterdeck.
It dawned on me, I might just create floatation chambers, sealing off
the foredeck and afterdeck areas completely, not installing the foam
at all. I could then install screw-in deck plates to provide access
to these enclosed areas.
The only disadvantage of flotation chambers without foam that I can
imagine is that if the integrity of the chambers was breached in a
collision, I'd sink.
Any thoughts on this?
flotation. The bow and stern sections seem ideal locations for
styrofoam flotation. I initially planned to enclose the foam under
the foredeck and afterdeck, sealing the areas with vertical bulkheads
set along the edges of the foredeck and afterdeck.
It dawned on me, I might just create floatation chambers, sealing off
the foredeck and afterdeck areas completely, not installing the foam
at all. I could then install screw-in deck plates to provide access
to these enclosed areas.
The only disadvantage of flotation chambers without foam that I can
imagine is that if the integrity of the chambers was breached in a
collision, I'd sink.
Any thoughts on this?