Re: If you can't epoxy...
The "l" on the end of the link got wrapped in my previous post. You
may have to type it in to get to the appropriate site for vinylester
resin.
may have to type it in to get to the appropriate site for vinylester
resin.
Andy,
I don't know anything about it but here is a link for vinylester in
small quantities:
http://tapplastics.com/fiberglass/polyester_resins/04_marine_vinyl.htm
l
I don't know anything about it but here is a link for vinylester in
small quantities:
http://tapplastics.com/fiberglass/polyester_resins/04_marine_vinyl.htm
l
> I have wanted to try
> vinylester, but cannot find it in small enough quantities.
A 1/8" wide bead on one surface is plenty. I have used it to attach chine
logs to hull sides and bottoms to the chine logs. I use silicon bronze wood
screws every 12" or so. But that is just my overkill philosophy. I found
that the glue goes further if it is spread accross the width of the joint
with a piece of scrap wood or putty knife. Any that squishes out of the
joined wood, be sure to wipe up with mineral spirits before it starts to
cure.
logs to hull sides and bottoms to the chine logs. I use silicon bronze wood
screws every 12" or so. But that is just my overkill philosophy. I found
that the glue goes further if it is spread accross the width of the joint
with a piece of scrap wood or putty knife. Any that squishes out of the
joined wood, be sure to wipe up with mineral spirits before it starts to
cure.
> -----Original Message-----
> From:pongo19050@...[mailto:pongo19050@...]
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 1:54 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: If you can't epoxy...
>
>
> --- In bolger@y..., teakdeck@a... wrote:
> . . .
>
> > That brings me to a question about 5200 (which may be a good glue
> for me),
> > how do you actually apply it? Every discussion talks about a bead.
> But if you
> > were connecting, say chines to plywood ala instant boat, would you
> completely
> > butter the chine and the plywood, just the chine, or just put a
> bead down?
> >
>
> I have used 5200 on a couple of boats. I used it exclusively to glue
> the frames to the bulheads and the chine logs and gunnels to the
> sides of my current project, a Bolger Oldshoe. I had to remove part
> of a gunnel from a canoe which I attached using 5200. It took a lot
> of chisel work and a lot of time - I never want to remove anything
> that was glued on with 5200 again.
>
> When using 5200, I just put a wavy bead of it on one of the surfaces
> that is to be joined. I then either nail the thing together using
> ringnails or clamp it. If a little squishes out of the joint, I feel
> that I have used enough. The stuff is pretty pricey but a little
> goes a long ways. When using 3m5200, be sure that you never want to
> take the thing apart in the future.
>
> My condolences on the epoxy allergy. Have you thought of using
> polyester or vinylester in which to set the fiberglass? They smell
> terrible but don't seem to cause allergic reactions to the extent of
> epoxy. Contrary to popular opinion, I have found that polyester
> works well enough for the boats that I build. I have wanted to try
> vinylester, but cannot find it in small enough quantities.
>
> Regards
>
> Andy Farquhar
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
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> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
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>
>
--- In bolger@y..., teakdeck@a... wrote:
. . .
> That brings me to a question about 5200 (which may be a good glue
for me),
> how do you actually apply it? Every discussion talks about a bead.
But if you
> were connecting, say chines to plywood ala instant boat, would you
completely
> butter the chine and the plywood, just the chine, or just put a
bead down?
>
I have used 5200 on a couple of boats. I used it exclusively to glue
the frames to the bulheads and the chine logs and gunnels to the
sides of my current project, a Bolger Oldshoe. I had to remove part
of a gunnel from a canoe which I attached using 5200. It took a lot
of chisel work and a lot of time - I never want to remove anything
that was glued on with 5200 again.
When using 5200, I just put a wavy bead of it on one of the surfaces
that is to be joined. I then either nail the thing together using
ringnails or clamp it. If a little squishes out of the joint, I feel
that I have used enough. The stuff is pretty pricey but a little
goes a long ways. When using 3m5200, be sure that you never want to
take the thing apart in the future.
My condolences on the epoxy allergy. Have you thought of using
polyester or vinylester in which to set the fiberglass? They smell
terrible but don't seem to cause allergic reactions to the extent of
epoxy. Contrary to popular opinion, I have found that polyester
works well enough for the boats that I build. I have wanted to try
vinylester, but cannot find it in small enough quantities.
Regards
Andy Farquhar
Hi Mike,
I can sympathize with you, I too have reactions to epoxy. They are
not serious but as you probably already know exposure to epoxy is
cumulative. This is also true of Polyurethane 1 Part Adhesives.
They are generally every bit as toxic and can also lead to cumulative
sensitivity. Care should be used to limit your direct contact and
exposure. On boats I have used 3M 5200 and just recently I have been
trying out PL Adhesives on very small boats. You can use
Polyurethane's in much the same way as you would epoxy for glueing.
I have even done fillets in stitch-n-glue construction with PL and
also applied it between the two pieces of wood being joined "butter
the joint". Fillets of PL construction adhesive seem to work well
and can be sanded, 5200 is much harder to work with and much more
expensive. I recently e-mailed the technical people at "System Three
Epoxies" and they said that you can epoxy and fiberglass over PL
joints. One advantage or disadvantage to Polyurethane joints is they
remain somewhat flexible, so you want to use care if you epoxy over
the joint, be sure you are not causing the epoxy to flex to much. If
anyone wants to combine Polyurethane I Part Glues and Epoxy I would
first contact the epoxy distributor directly, they have been very
helpful to me to far. If you are doing large spans or areas, you
might want to consider a more conventional method of construction
using screws or ring nails along with the Polyurethane Adhesive. Pl
is marketing a "Premium Wood Glue" that is stated "100%" waterproof
and I have just bought some to try out. I want to add some fillers
and see how it works in big gaps. They state that it has a 90% cure
rate in 2-4 hours which is much faster that either 5200 or PL
Construction Adhesives. Polyurethane's are also sensitive to
humidity and moisture so if you live in a dry area it takes much
longer to cure. Pl products are made by OSI and you can ask them
questions directly at their site:
http://www.osisealants.com/they also make a marine sealer (caulk)
for above waterline use. It would be interesting to see what they
say about use of their products in boat building, they are quite a
bit cheaper than 3M 5200. 3M of course is very supportive of use of
their adhesive products in boat building. If in doubt, contact the
boat designer or supplier of the plans, usually they are very
familiar with using different products.
Les
I can sympathize with you, I too have reactions to epoxy. They are
not serious but as you probably already know exposure to epoxy is
cumulative. This is also true of Polyurethane 1 Part Adhesives.
They are generally every bit as toxic and can also lead to cumulative
sensitivity. Care should be used to limit your direct contact and
exposure. On boats I have used 3M 5200 and just recently I have been
trying out PL Adhesives on very small boats. You can use
Polyurethane's in much the same way as you would epoxy for glueing.
I have even done fillets in stitch-n-glue construction with PL and
also applied it between the two pieces of wood being joined "butter
the joint". Fillets of PL construction adhesive seem to work well
and can be sanded, 5200 is much harder to work with and much more
expensive. I recently e-mailed the technical people at "System Three
Epoxies" and they said that you can epoxy and fiberglass over PL
joints. One advantage or disadvantage to Polyurethane joints is they
remain somewhat flexible, so you want to use care if you epoxy over
the joint, be sure you are not causing the epoxy to flex to much. If
anyone wants to combine Polyurethane I Part Glues and Epoxy I would
first contact the epoxy distributor directly, they have been very
helpful to me to far. If you are doing large spans or areas, you
might want to consider a more conventional method of construction
using screws or ring nails along with the Polyurethane Adhesive. Pl
is marketing a "Premium Wood Glue" that is stated "100%" waterproof
and I have just bought some to try out. I want to add some fillers
and see how it works in big gaps. They state that it has a 90% cure
rate in 2-4 hours which is much faster that either 5200 or PL
Construction Adhesives. Polyurethane's are also sensitive to
humidity and moisture so if you live in a dry area it takes much
longer to cure. Pl products are made by OSI and you can ask them
questions directly at their site:
http://www.osisealants.com/they also make a marine sealer (caulk)
for above waterline use. It would be interesting to see what they
say about use of their products in boat building, they are quite a
bit cheaper than 3M 5200. 3M of course is very supportive of use of
their adhesive products in boat building. If in doubt, contact the
boat designer or supplier of the plans, usually they are very
familiar with using different products.
Les
--- In bolger@y..., teakdeck@a... wrote:
> Bolgerado's,
>
> I can't use epoxy, I'm allergic to it. Just the fumes make my skin
swell. So
> I am constantly looking for ways to glue things together without
epoxy. I
> have used Weldwood successfully, and Titebond and I once used 3M
5200. I
> found the stuff seems to create super joints, but it was hard to
work with in
> the cold. I do like the advantage of the tackiness of 5200 and the
> convenience of one part versus two.
>
> That brings me to a question about 5200 (which may be a good glue
for me),
> how do you actually apply it? Every discussion talks about a bead.
But if you
> were connecting, say chines to plywood ala instant boat, would you
completely
> butter the chine and the plywood, just the chine, or just put a
bead down?
>
> Mike Masten (current project: turning my Windsprint into a tri)
Some years ago there was an article about another guy allergic to
expoxies. He was building a sizable boat using (I think)
polyeurathane glue similar to if not Gorilla glue. You might try to
research this. I've used Elmer's version of polyeurathane glue for
small jobs when I didn't want to mix a batch of epoxie. It is gap
filling, waterproof (it says) and though it foams out of joints it is
easy to clean up. It sands well. It is pricey but so is 5200.
Bob Chamberland
expoxies. He was building a sizable boat using (I think)
polyeurathane glue similar to if not Gorilla glue. You might try to
research this. I've used Elmer's version of polyeurathane glue for
small jobs when I didn't want to mix a batch of epoxie. It is gap
filling, waterproof (it says) and though it foams out of joints it is
easy to clean up. It sands well. It is pricey but so is 5200.
Bob Chamberland
--- In bolger@y..., teakdeck@a... wrote:
> Bolgerado's,
>
> I can't use epoxy, I'm allergic to it. Just the fumes make my skin
swell. So
> Mike Masten (current project: turning my Windsprint into a tri)
Bolgerado's,
I can't use epoxy, I'm allergic to it. Just the fumes make my skin swell. So
I am constantly looking for ways to glue things together without epoxy. I
have used Weldwood successfully, and Titebond and I once used 3M 5200. I
found the stuff seems to create super joints, but it was hard to work with in
the cold. I do like the advantage of the tackiness of 5200 and the
convenience of one part versus two.
That brings me to a question about 5200 (which may be a good glue for me),
how do you actually apply it? Every discussion talks about a bead. But if you
were connecting, say chines to plywood ala instant boat, would you completely
butter the chine and the plywood, just the chine, or just put a bead down?
Mike Masten (current project: turning my Windsprint into a tri)
I can't use epoxy, I'm allergic to it. Just the fumes make my skin swell. So
I am constantly looking for ways to glue things together without epoxy. I
have used Weldwood successfully, and Titebond and I once used 3M 5200. I
found the stuff seems to create super joints, but it was hard to work with in
the cold. I do like the advantage of the tackiness of 5200 and the
convenience of one part versus two.
That brings me to a question about 5200 (which may be a good glue for me),
how do you actually apply it? Every discussion talks about a bead. But if you
were connecting, say chines to plywood ala instant boat, would you completely
butter the chine and the plywood, just the chine, or just put a bead down?
Mike Masten (current project: turning my Windsprint into a tri)