[bolger] Re: Bobcat and plywood thickness
Hello All
Pippo Wrote:
My 6 mm plywood is
actually 5.5 mm thick, 3 plies with a thick core and very thin external
veneers. It's 100% 1st quality marine okoume plywood. The 8 mm is 5
plies, and the real thickness should be half way between 1/4" and 5/16"
(7-7.5 mm). What is the real thickness, and how many plies does it
have, of marine fir 1/4" plywood?
Watch out for plywood that has an extreme difference between the thickness of the plys as it will not be "balanced".
By "balance" I mean the plys characteristics in bending along both axis ie longways on the sheet and across. This is really important when building boats that have even the slightest compound curve in the panels. Many bow panels fall into this category and "Bobcat", with her full sections would almost certainly be slightly compound (even though not designed that way).
We once planked a large catamaran with very slight compound curves (a Wharram Tiki 38) and it was easy with the ply we used. Others we have talked with had real dificulties using the same plans etc. but different plywood.
Lots of factors seem to contribute to "balance" , maybe someone else can comment.
Regards - Foster
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Pippo Wrote:
My 6 mm plywood is
actually 5.5 mm thick, 3 plies with a thick core and very thin external
veneers. It's 100% 1st quality marine okoume plywood. The 8 mm is 5
plies, and the real thickness should be half way between 1/4" and 5/16"
(7-7.5 mm). What is the real thickness, and how many plies does it
have, of marine fir 1/4" plywood?
Watch out for plywood that has an extreme difference between the thickness of the plys as it will not be "balanced".
By "balance" I mean the plys characteristics in bending along both axis ie longways on the sheet and across. This is really important when building boats that have even the slightest compound curve in the panels. Many bow panels fall into this category and "Bobcat", with her full sections would almost certainly be slightly compound (even though not designed that way).
We once planked a large catamaran with very slight compound curves (a Wharram Tiki 38) and it was easy with the ply we used. Others we have talked with had real dificulties using the same plans etc. but different plywood.
Lots of factors seem to contribute to "balance" , maybe someone else can comment.
Regards - Foster
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Pippo,
Well, I gave in and bought tapered aluminum flagpoles for my schooner -
about $200 each...
Fir marine ply isn't all that exciting. I suspect it's close to 1/4", but
I don't know. It's 3-ply, probably because fir is so splintery and has
flaws, it would be too hard to peel any thinner. All the plies are about
the same thickness and it could have some dutchmans (repairs).
How about going with the thinner stuff and adding a layer of glass to the
outside?
Gregg
At 12:53 AM 7/23/99 -0700, you wrote:
Well, I gave in and bought tapered aluminum flagpoles for my schooner -
about $200 each...
Fir marine ply isn't all that exciting. I suspect it's close to 1/4", but
I don't know. It's 3-ply, probably because fir is so splintery and has
flaws, it would be too hard to peel any thinner. All the plies are about
the same thickness and it could have some dutchmans (repairs).
How about going with the thinner stuff and adding a layer of glass to the
outside?
Gregg
At 12:53 AM 7/23/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Gregg
>it's going to be a loooong stick. The design specifies a section of
>55x65 mm
>and a lenght of 6.35 meters (21'). The sloop rig would need a sailtrack
>as well, and a gooseneck, and many other jingles. When I started
>building the hull (easy!), I didn't realize how tricky and hard-to-find
>that stuff would have had proven to be.
>
>> I don't know much about the bobcat, but I don't think it's a big
>boat. If
>> you have high-quality 5-ply plywood, I could see going thinner. If
>your
>> plywood is just so-so, I might opt for heavier. Also, what about the
>> intended use? Protected or open water? Do you want it light enough
>to be
>> dragged up on the beach?
>
>The Bobcat is 12'3" x 6', with a big gaff sail. My 6 mm plywood is
>actually 5.5 mm thick, 3 plies with a thick core and very thin external
>veneers. It's 100% 1st quality marine okoume plywood. The 8 mm is 5
>plies, and the real thickness should be half way between 1/4" and 5/16"
>(7-7.5 mm). What is the real thickness, and how many plies does it
>have, of marine fir 1/4" plywood?
>Best, Pippo
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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<3.0.1.32.19990722164820.007272b-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=49
it's going to be a loooong stick. The design specifies a section of
55x65 mm
and a lenght of 6.35 meters (21'). The sloop rig would need a sailtrack
as well, and a gooseneck, and many other jingles. When I started
building the hull (easy!), I didn't realize how tricky and hard-to-find
that stuff would have had proven to be.
actually 5.5 mm thick, 3 plies with a thick core and very thin external
veneers. It's 100% 1st quality marine okoume plywood. The 8 mm is 5
plies, and the real thickness should be half way between 1/4" and 5/16"
(7-7.5 mm). What is the real thickness, and how many plies does it
have, of marine fir 1/4" plywood?
Best, Pippo
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=49
> Pippo,8-stave
>
> Why don't you build your own mast? There's a good article on the
> technique in the last Wooden Boat magazine.Gregg
it's going to be a loooong stick. The design specifies a section of
55x65 mm
and a lenght of 6.35 meters (21'). The sloop rig would need a sailtrack
as well, and a gooseneck, and many other jingles. When I started
building the hull (easy!), I didn't realize how tricky and hard-to-find
that stuff would have had proven to be.
> I don't know much about the bobcat, but I don't think it's a bigboat. If
> you have high-quality 5-ply plywood, I could see going thinner. Ifyour
> plywood is just so-so, I might opt for heavier. Also, what about theto be
> intended use? Protected or open water? Do you want it light enough
> dragged up on the beach?The Bobcat is 12'3" x 6', with a big gaff sail. My 6 mm plywood is
actually 5.5 mm thick, 3 plies with a thick core and very thin external
veneers. It's 100% 1st quality marine okoume plywood. The 8 mm is 5
plies, and the real thickness should be half way between 1/4" and 5/16"
(7-7.5 mm). What is the real thickness, and how many plies does it
have, of marine fir 1/4" plywood?
Best, Pippo
Good point, Pippo - Douglas Fir is among the strongest softwood around
(about 12,000 psi in tension).
GHC
At 12:11 AM 7/22/99 -0700, you wrote:
(about 12,000 psi in tension).
GHC
At 12:11 AM 7/22/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi Foster
>I understand that the "default" plywood intended to be used on the
>Instant Boats is fir. There's no such plywood available here, so I'm
>going to use marine okoume, which should be 30% less dense than fir.
>Doing so, I should stay within the right weight, but using 5-plies
>plywood instead a 3-ply. PCB, for his Micro, for instance, specifies
>either 1/4" or 3/8". Well, I can't imagine to build a hefty boat like
>Micro using 5.5 mm, 3-plies plywood. The boat would be flimsy. My
>Caravelle hull has been built with that plywood and, even if all the
>seams are glassed with biaxial tape and epoxy (3 layers of 12 oz at the
>keel), it is very flimsy. Best, Pippo>
Pippo,
Why don't you build your own mast? There's a good article on the 8-stave
technique in the last Wooden Boat magazine.
I don't know much about the bobcat, but I don't think it's a big boat. If
you have high-quality 5-ply plywood, I could see going thinner. If your
plywood is just so-so, I might opt for heavier. Also, what about the
intended use? Protected or open water? Do you want it light enough to be
dragged up on the beach?
Gregg
At 12:42 AM 7/21/99 -0700, you wrote:
Why don't you build your own mast? There's a good article on the 8-stave
technique in the last Wooden Boat magazine.
I don't know much about the bobcat, but I don't think it's a big boat. If
you have high-quality 5-ply plywood, I could see going thinner. If your
plywood is just so-so, I might opt for heavier. Also, what about the
intended use? Protected or open water? Do you want it light enough to be
dragged up on the beach?
Gregg
At 12:42 AM 7/21/99 -0700, you wrote:
>> Hey Pippo - welcome! Are you working on a Micro??
>>
>> Gregg
>
>Hi Gregg. Well, changed my mind again. I'm having so many problems in
>finding a mast for my current project that I'm probably going to
>abandon it and start on a Bolger's Bobcat. The specified mast for my
>Caravelle is so tall that I cannot adapt anything like a FJ or a 420
>rig. Nobody in Italy is willing to supply such a mast. I can only get
>it custom-made from a French company but it would cost 2 times the cost
>of the complete boat (say 1000+ bucks...). SO I decided to consider the
>current hull as my test run (a bit expensive though), and choose a
>simpler-to-rig design. After the Bobcat is done, my next boat will be
>the fantastic sheet-ply Chebacco. I'm recomputing the bill of materials
>for the Bobcat because the plywood here comes in 5'x10' sheets as
>opposed to your 4'x8'. I should be ok with 6 of our sheets. I'm
>probably not going to use our 6 mm ply, whose real thickness is 5.5 mm.
>From Dynamite's book on the Bobcat, your 1/4 inch plywood looks
>substantially thicker than 5.5 mm, so I'm going to use 8 mm (5/16")
>plywood. Any thoughts on this? Best, Pippo
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Was the salesman clueless?
>Productopia has the answers.
>http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/555
>
>
>
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>http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
>
>
>
>
>
<01bed41e.9dfd8ea-@price-pc> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=44
deck. I built a "Sparkler" (PCB's simplified "Lightning") using these
concepts and it was very sucesful. I used 9mm (3/8) where he specified
12mm (1/2) and 2x9mm where he specified 2x12mm.
I understand that the "default" plywood intended to be used on the
Instant Boats is fir. There's no such plywood available here, so I'm
going to use marine okoume, which should be 30% less dense than fir.
Doing so, I should stay within the right weight, but using 5-plies
plywood instead a 3-ply. PCB, for his Micro, for instance, specifies
either 1/4" or 3/8". Well, I can't imagine to build a hefty boat like
Micro using 5.5 mm, 3-plies plywood. The boat would be flimsy. My
Caravelle hull has been built with that plywood and, even if all the
seams are glassed with biaxial tape and epoxy (3 layers of 12 oz at the
keel), it is very flimsy. Best, Pippo
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=44
> Hello Pippo & Phil - and an observation on ply thicknesskills a boat more than excess weight.
>
> Most of PCB's boats are extremely robustly designed, and nothing
>where there will be high stress eg where the mast goes through the
> I would go for the lighter ply myself, and put a few "doulblers"
deck. I built a "Sparkler" (PCB's simplified "Lightning") using these
concepts and it was very sucesful. I used 9mm (3/8) where he specified
12mm (1/2) and 2x9mm where he specified 2x12mm.
>Hi Foster
> Regards - Foster
I understand that the "default" plywood intended to be used on the
Instant Boats is fir. There's no such plywood available here, so I'm
going to use marine okoume, which should be 30% less dense than fir.
Doing so, I should stay within the right weight, but using 5-plies
plywood instead a 3-ply. PCB, for his Micro, for instance, specifies
either 1/4" or 3/8". Well, I can't imagine to build a hefty boat like
Micro using 5.5 mm, 3-plies plywood. The boat would be flimsy. My
Caravelle hull has been built with that plywood and, even if all the
seams are glassed with biaxial tape and epoxy (3 layers of 12 oz at the
keel), it is very flimsy. Best, Pippo
Hello Pippo & Phil - and an observation on ply thickness
Most of PCB's boats are extremely robustly designed, and nothing kills a boat more than excess weight.
I would go for the lighter ply myself, and put a few "doulblers" where there will be high stress eg where the mast goes through the deck. I built a "Sparkler" (PCB's simplified "Lightning") using these concepts and it was very sucesful. I used 9mm (3/8) where he specified 12mm (1/2) and 2x9mm where he specified 2x12mm.
Regards - Foster
----------
From:plea@...
Sent: Thursday, 22 July 1999 3:30 am
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Bobcat and plywood thickness
Folks,
The latest WoodenBoat has a great article on an improved method for
gluing up spars. The author has reported that it is so easy that I am
encouraged to glue up hollow -- next time.
In my case, for the boat under construction (modifed Bolger June Bug,
see earlier post) I have already acquired a suitable douglas fir 2x12
(with small tight knots, unsuitable material to glue up hollow) to glue
for the solid mast -- and it will not be too heavy for me to step.
Phil Lea
Russellville, Arkansas
<@...> wrote:
Was the salesman clueless?
Productopia has the answers.
http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/555
eGroups.com home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger
http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
------------------------------------------------------------------------
eGroups.com home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger
http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
Most of PCB's boats are extremely robustly designed, and nothing kills a boat more than excess weight.
I would go for the lighter ply myself, and put a few "doulblers" where there will be high stress eg where the mast goes through the deck. I built a "Sparkler" (PCB's simplified "Lightning") using these concepts and it was very sucesful. I used 9mm (3/8) where he specified 12mm (1/2) and 2x9mm where he specified 2x12mm.
Regards - Foster
----------
From:plea@...
Sent: Thursday, 22 July 1999 3:30 am
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Bobcat and plywood thickness
Folks,
The latest WoodenBoat has a great article on an improved method for
gluing up spars. The author has reported that it is so easy that I am
encouraged to glue up hollow -- next time.
In my case, for the boat under construction (modifed Bolger June Bug,
see earlier post) I have already acquired a suitable douglas fir 2x12
(with small tight knots, unsuitable material to glue up hollow) to glue
for the solid mast -- and it will not be too heavy for me to step.
Phil Lea
Russellville, Arkansas
<@...> wrote:
> Pippo, how are things?one
>
> If nobody will supply the mast you have basicaly two options. Build
> yourself ormuch
> change the rig. Personaly, I'd make the mast myself. It's not to
> trouble to glue up a stick and shave it down into a mast.... oin
>bianco@...wrote:
>
> > > Hey Pippo - welcome! Are you working on a Micro??
> > >
> > > Gregg
> >
> > Hi Gregg. Well, changed my mind again. I'm having so many problems
> > finding a mast for my current project that I'm probably going toget
> > abandon it and start on a Bolger's Bobcat. The specified mast for my
> > Caravelle is so tall that I cannot adapt anything like a FJ or a 420
> > rig. Nobody in Italy is willing to supply such a mast. I can only
> > it custom-made from a French company but it would cost 2 times thecost
> > of the complete boat (say 1000+ bucks...). SO I decided to considerthe
> > current hull as my test run (a bit expensive though), and choose abe
> > simpler-to-rig design. After the Bobcat is done, my next boat will
> > the fantastic sheet-ply Chebacco. I'm recomputing the bill ofmaterials
> > for the Bobcat because the plywood here comes in 5'x10' sheets asmm.
> > opposed to your 4'x8'. I should be ok with 6 of our sheets. I'm
> > probably not going to use our 6 mm ply, whose real thickness is 5.5
> > >From Dynamite's book on the Bobcat, your 1/4 inch plywood looks------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > substantially thicker than 5.5 mm, so I'm going to use 8 mm (5/16")
> > plywood. Any thoughts on this? Best, Pippo
Was the salesman clueless?
Productopia has the answers.
http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/555
eGroups.com home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger
http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Folks,
The latest WoodenBoat has a great article on an improved method for
gluing up spars. The author has reported that it is so easy that I am
encouraged to glue up hollow -- next time.
In my case, for the boat under construction (modifed Bolger June Bug,
see earlier post) I have already acquired a suitable douglas fir 2x12
(with small tight knots, unsuitable material to glue up hollow) to glue
for the solid mast -- and it will not be too heavy for me to step.
Phil Lea
Russellville, Arkansas
<@...> wrote:
eGroups.com home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger
http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
The latest WoodenBoat has a great article on an improved method for
gluing up spars. The author has reported that it is so easy that I am
encouraged to glue up hollow -- next time.
In my case, for the boat under construction (modifed Bolger June Bug,
see earlier post) I have already acquired a suitable douglas fir 2x12
(with small tight knots, unsuitable material to glue up hollow) to glue
for the solid mast -- and it will not be too heavy for me to step.
Phil Lea
Russellville, Arkansas
<@...> wrote:
> Pippo, how are things?one
>
> If nobody will supply the mast you have basicaly two options. Build
> yourself ormuch
> change the rig. Personaly, I'd make the mast myself. It's not to
> trouble to glue up a stick and shave it down into a mast.... oin
>bianco@...wrote:
>
> > > Hey Pippo - welcome! Are you working on a Micro??
> > >
> > > Gregg
> >
> > Hi Gregg. Well, changed my mind again. I'm having so many problems
> > finding a mast for my current project that I'm probably going toget
> > abandon it and start on a Bolger's Bobcat. The specified mast for my
> > Caravelle is so tall that I cannot adapt anything like a FJ or a 420
> > rig. Nobody in Italy is willing to supply such a mast. I can only
> > it custom-made from a French company but it would cost 2 times thecost
> > of the complete boat (say 1000+ bucks...). SO I decided to considerthe
> > current hull as my test run (a bit expensive though), and choose abe
> > simpler-to-rig design. After the Bobcat is done, my next boat will
> > the fantastic sheet-ply Chebacco. I'm recomputing the bill ofmaterials
> > for the Bobcat because the plywood here comes in 5'x10' sheets asmm.
> > opposed to your 4'x8'. I should be ok with 6 of our sheets. I'm
> > probably not going to use our 6 mm ply, whose real thickness is 5.5
> > >From Dynamite's book on the Bobcat, your 1/4 inch plywood looks------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > substantially thicker than 5.5 mm, so I'm going to use 8 mm (5/16")
> > plywood. Any thoughts on this? Best, Pippo
eGroups.com home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger
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Pippo, how are things?
If nobody will supply the mast you have basicaly two options. Build one
yourself or
change the rig.
Personaly, I'd make the mast myself. It's not to much trouble to glue up a
stick and shave
it down into a mast.... or you could be creative like Gregg and use veralam
or flagpoles...
(then again, I'd probably change the sloop rig to a gaff-cat, with
leeboards.... but then it wouldn't be the caravelle...)
bianco@...wrote:
eGroups.com home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger
http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
If nobody will supply the mast you have basicaly two options. Build one
yourself or
change the rig.
Personaly, I'd make the mast myself. It's not to much trouble to glue up a
stick and shave
it down into a mast.... or you could be creative like Gregg and use veralam
or flagpoles...
(then again, I'd probably change the sloop rig to a gaff-cat, with
leeboards.... but then it wouldn't be the caravelle...)
bianco@...wrote:
> > Hey Pippo - welcome! Are you working on a Micro??------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Gregg
>
> Hi Gregg. Well, changed my mind again. I'm having so many problems in
> finding a mast for my current project that I'm probably going to
> abandon it and start on a Bolger's Bobcat. The specified mast for my
> Caravelle is so tall that I cannot adapt anything like a FJ or a 420
> rig. Nobody in Italy is willing to supply such a mast. I can only get
> it custom-made from a French company but it would cost 2 times the cost
> of the complete boat (say 1000+ bucks...). SO I decided to consider the
> current hull as my test run (a bit expensive though), and choose a
> simpler-to-rig design. After the Bobcat is done, my next boat will be
> the fantastic sheet-ply Chebacco. I'm recomputing the bill of materials
> for the Bobcat because the plywood here comes in 5'x10' sheets as
> opposed to your 4'x8'. I should be ok with 6 of our sheets. I'm
> probably not going to use our 6 mm ply, whose real thickness is 5.5 mm.
> >From Dynamite's book on the Bobcat, your 1/4 inch plywood looks
> substantially thicker than 5.5 mm, so I'm going to use 8 mm (5/16")
> plywood. Any thoughts on this? Best, Pippo
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Was the salesman clueless?
> Productopia has the answers.
>http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/555
>
> eGroups.com home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger
>http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
eGroups.com home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger
http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
> Hey Pippo - welcome! Are you working on a Micro??Hi Gregg. Well, changed my mind again. I'm having so many problems in
>
> Gregg
finding a mast for my current project that I'm probably going to
abandon it and start on a Bolger's Bobcat. The specified mast for my
Caravelle is so tall that I cannot adapt anything like a FJ or a 420
rig. Nobody in Italy is willing to supply such a mast. I can only get
it custom-made from a French company but it would cost 2 times the cost
of the complete boat (say 1000+ bucks...). SO I decided to consider the
current hull as my test run (a bit expensive though), and choose a
simpler-to-rig design. After the Bobcat is done, my next boat will be
the fantastic sheet-ply Chebacco. I'm recomputing the bill of materials
for the Bobcat because the plywood here comes in 5'x10' sheets as
opposed to your 4'x8'. I should be ok with 6 of our sheets. I'm
probably not going to use our 6 mm ply, whose real thickness is 5.5 mm.
From Dynamite's book on the Bobcat, your 1/4 inch plywood looks
substantially thicker than 5.5 mm, so I'm going to use 8 mm (5/16")
plywood. Any thoughts on this? Best, Pippo
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Hey Pippo - welcome! Are you working on a Micro??
Gregg
At 07:09 AM 7/20/99 -0700, you wrote:
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Gregg
At 07:09 AM 7/20/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi Gregg - I discovered the Bolger newsgroup by chance and here I am to------------------------------------------------------------------------
>subscribe! As you now, I became more and more intrigued by PCB's
>designs in the last few months. I'm sure that your competence (and
>boatbuilding efficiency!) will be an encouragement to all of us. Best -
>Pippo
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Don't know which one to buy? Productopia does.
>http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/554
>
>
>eGroups.com home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger
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>
>
>
>
>
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Hi Gregg - I discovered the Bolger newsgroup by chance and here I am to
subscribe! As you now, I became more and more intrigued by PCB's
designs in the last few months. I'm sure that your competence (and
boatbuilding efficiency!) will be an encouragement to all of us. Best -
Pippo
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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subscribe! As you now, I became more and more intrigued by PCB's
designs in the last few months. I'm sure that your competence (and
boatbuilding efficiency!) will be an encouragement to all of us. Best -
Pippo
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
I've built two of the instant boats so far, first Windsprint, and I
just launched a Tortoise today. The Windsprint was overbuilt compared
to the plans as I used 1/2" ply for the bottom and used epoxy and
fiberglass cloth on the bottom and topsides. I also used epoxy primer
and marine enamel paint. The Tortoise was meant to be quick and dirty
as well as an experimental boat. Instead of epoxy to attach the
framing to the sides, bow and stern I first used Siklaflex and later PL
Polyurethane construction adhesive which I prefered. I did cover the
chines with fiberglass tape and epoxy. I sealed the ACX ply with
normal oil based primer and used latex house paint.
I've found, despite the materials and coatings used, the Windsprint
requires maintenance (touch up painting and varnishing). I also found
that the little imperfections I see while working on her are not
apparent if you step back a few feet.
I'm very pleased with the Tortoise which looks great despite the quick
paint job and am not bothered by the sides flexing slightly while
rowing. The time and expense saved while building her should outweigh
the potential shorter life. Besides, building boats is addictive, and
I've found that building and using more boats is more fun maintaining a
single boat.
<3.0.1.32.19990716135220.0075b46-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=21
eGroups.com home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger
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just launched a Tortoise today. The Windsprint was overbuilt compared
to the plans as I used 1/2" ply for the bottom and used epoxy and
fiberglass cloth on the bottom and topsides. I also used epoxy primer
and marine enamel paint. The Tortoise was meant to be quick and dirty
as well as an experimental boat. Instead of epoxy to attach the
framing to the sides, bow and stern I first used Siklaflex and later PL
Polyurethane construction adhesive which I prefered. I did cover the
chines with fiberglass tape and epoxy. I sealed the ACX ply with
normal oil based primer and used latex house paint.
I've found, despite the materials and coatings used, the Windsprint
requires maintenance (touch up painting and varnishing). I also found
that the little imperfections I see while working on her are not
apparent if you step back a few feet.
I'm very pleased with the Tortoise which looks great despite the quick
paint job and am not bothered by the sides flexing slightly while
rowing. The time and expense saved while building her should outweigh
the potential shorter life. Besides, building boats is addictive, and
I've found that building and using more boats is more fun maintaining a
single boat.
<3.0.1.32.19990716135220.0075b46-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=21
> Well, generally, I think overbuilding the Bolger small boats seemseasy to
> do. The light schooner, like most of them, seem lightly, cleverlydesigned.
> I sail on the lake, so 'offshore' safety just may not be necessary!have
>
> Gregg
>
> At 11:55 AM 7/16/99 -0400, you wrote:
> >I'm also building June Bug, and I'm at about the same stage in the
> >construction process. I have the sides assembled to the
> >frames/stem/transom, and the chines and gunwales installed. Hope to
> >the bottom installed by the end of the week. I'm building it rightout of
> >Payson's book, and haven't had any problems thus far. I mounted thechines
> >externally as a matter of preference on an 'instant boat', as itfurther
> >simplifies construction. I started the boat last weekend and haveput about
> >10 hours into the project so far. I've been keeping a log of thehours
> >labor involved and materials cost for future reference.nice, but
> >
> >I'm a very amateur builder; this is the second boat I've built. I'd
> >previously built a Glen-L 10 (ply on frame sailboat). It came out
> >it was very heavy since I glassed the entire exterior, and it costalot more
> >than it should have, because of the amount of epoxy I used. If Icould have
> >done it over, I would have used a less expensive glue for theinterior
> >framing, and would have only glassed the seams, and the bottom forabrasion
> >resistance.as a true
> >
> >Based on my last building experience, I'm trying to build June Bug
> >'instant boat' (cheap and quick) using common/inexpensive materials.I'm
> >using 1/4" exterior Luan plywood, pine framing wood, and woodscrews. For
> >glue I'm using Weldwood resorcinol glue, and will use System 3 epoxyand
> >fiberglass tape to glass the chines and exterior seams.advice from
> >
> >I'd like to hear from those building June Bug, and would welcome
> >those who have built any of Bolger's instant boats.description of my
> >
> >Best regards,
> >
> >John Sumrok
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From:MIKE_VACANTI@...
> >[mailto:MIKE_VACANTI@...]
> >Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 6:03 PM
> >To:bolger@egroups.com
> >Subject: [bolger] New subscriber
> >
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I just joined this list and thought I'd give a brief
> > project. I'm building a June Bug. I have the sides assembled tothe
> > frames, have installed the chines and have the bottom piecescut out
> > and joined with the butt block. I started building about 2months ago
> > but I only get a few hours here and there to work on it. My 2small
> > children will sometimes "help" me by marking cut lines with apencil
> > or cleaning up with the shop vac.use ss
> >
> > I'm using "super-ply" plywood and WEST systems epoxy. I only
> > sheet metal screws instead of the ring nails recommended in theplans.
> > I like having the option of removing the screws if I need to,removing
> > a ring nail sounds like it would be a nightmare. Lookingforward to
> > hearing from other builders.----
> >
> > Regards,
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >--------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Click Here to apply for a NextCard Internet Visa and start earning----
> >FREE travel in HALF the time with the NextCard Rew@rds Program.
> >http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/449
> >
> >
> >
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> >http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >Save on vitamins & supplements. Use coupon code: EGROUPS99
> >at checkout.http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/463
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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Well, generally, I think overbuilding the Bolger small boats seems easy to
do. The light schooner, like most of them, seem lightly, cleverly designed.
I sail on the lake, so 'offshore' safety just may not be necessary!
Gregg
At 11:55 AM 7/16/99 -0400, you wrote:
eGroups.com home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger
http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
do. The light schooner, like most of them, seem lightly, cleverly designed.
I sail on the lake, so 'offshore' safety just may not be necessary!
Gregg
At 11:55 AM 7/16/99 -0400, you wrote:
>I'm also building June Bug, and I'm at about the same stage in the------------------------------------------------------------------------
>construction process. I have the sides assembled to the
>frames/stem/transom, and the chines and gunwales installed. Hope to have
>the bottom installed by the end of the week. I'm building it right out of
>Payson's book, and haven't had any problems thus far. I mounted the chines
>externally as a matter of preference on an 'instant boat', as it further
>simplifies construction. I started the boat last weekend and have put about
>10 hours into the project so far. I've been keeping a log of the hours
>labor involved and materials cost for future reference.
>
>I'm a very amateur builder; this is the second boat I've built. I'd
>previously built a Glen-L 10 (ply on frame sailboat). It came out nice, but
>it was very heavy since I glassed the entire exterior, and it cost alot more
>than it should have, because of the amount of epoxy I used. If I could have
>done it over, I would have used a less expensive glue for the interior
>framing, and would have only glassed the seams, and the bottom for abrasion
>resistance.
>
>Based on my last building experience, I'm trying to build June Bug as a true
>'instant boat' (cheap and quick) using common/inexpensive materials. I'm
>using 1/4" exterior Luan plywood, pine framing wood, and wood screws. For
>glue I'm using Weldwood resorcinol glue, and will use System 3 epoxy and
>fiberglass tape to glass the chines and exterior seams.
>
>I'd like to hear from those building June Bug, and would welcome advice from
>those who have built any of Bolger's instant boats.
>
>Best regards,
>
>John Sumrok
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:MIKE_VACANTI@...
>[mailto:MIKE_VACANTI@...]
>Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 6:03 PM
>To:bolger@egroups.com
>Subject: [bolger] New subscriber
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I just joined this list and thought I'd give a brief description of my
> project. I'm building a June Bug. I have the sides assembled to the
> frames, have installed the chines and have the bottom pieces cut out
> and joined with the butt block. I started building about 2 months ago
> but I only get a few hours here and there to work on it. My 2 small
> children will sometimes "help" me by marking cut lines with a pencil
> or cleaning up with the shop vac.
>
> I'm using "super-ply" plywood and WEST systems epoxy. I only use ss
> sheet metal screws instead of the ring nails recommended in the plans.
> I like having the option of removing the screws if I need to, removing
> a ring nail sounds like it would be a nightmare. Looking forward to
> hearing from other builders.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>FREE travel in HALF the time with the NextCard Rew@rds Program.
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>
>
>
>eGroups.com home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger
>http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>Save on vitamins & supplements. Use coupon code: EGROUPS99
>at checkout.http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/463
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>
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>
>
>
>
>
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Mike - I see - I'm in Tulsa, OK., sailing right now in Pensacola, Fl.
Well, my schooner (scooner) may not be as pretty as your June Bug will be!
Thanks for the comments. When I get a chance, I'll put a link to the new
group on my website (does anyone know the best link of the ones I initially
gave to sign up on the group?)
Gregg
At 10:52 AM 7/16/99 -0700, you wrote:
iff
eGroups.com home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger
http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
Well, my schooner (scooner) may not be as pretty as your June Bug will be!
Thanks for the comments. When I get a chance, I'll put a link to the new
group on my website (does anyone know the best link of the ones I initially
gave to sign up on the group?)
Gregg
At 10:52 AM 7/16/99 -0700, you wrote:
> I live in Roseville, CA, just east of Sacramento. I'm building the__________________________________
> thing in my garage. This is my first boat. I've wanted to build a boat
> for many years but never had a place to build, the time to build and
> the money all at the same time. I actually bought the plans from
> Dynamite Payson in 1989. Someone else mentioned that they are at about
> the same point in construction that I am and have about 10 hours
> invested so far. I must be a bit slow because I have taken much more
> time than that, probably 30 hours or so, but I haven't been keeping
> track of my time.
>
> Thanks for starting this list. I really liked your web page
> documenting your Light Schooner project. By the time I'm done with my
> June Bug I will have taken as much time as you took to finish your
> Light Schooner.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
>
>______________________________ Forward Header
>Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: New subscriberNon-HP-ghartc/HP-Roseville_mimegw5////////HPMEXT1/ghartc#a#pipeline#f#com@cl
>Author: Non-HP-ghartc (ghartc@...) at HP-Roseville,mimegw5
>Date: 7/16/99 9:23 AM
>
>
>Hi Mike - where are you building? Gregg
>
>At 03:02 PM 7/15/99 -0700, you wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I just joined this list and thought I'd give a brief description of my
>> project. I'm building a June Bug. I have the sides assembled to the
>> frames, have installed the chines and have the bottom pieces cut out
>> and joined with the butt block. I started building about 2 months ago
>> but I only get a few hours here and there to work on it. My 2 small
>> children will sometimes "help" me by marking cut lines with a pencil
>> or cleaning up with the shop vac.
>>
>> I'm using "super-ply" plywood and WEST systems epoxy. I only use ss
>> sheet metal screws instead of the ring nails recommended in the plans.
>> I like having the option of removing the screws if I need to, removing
>> a ring nail sounds like it would be a nightmare. Looking forward to
>> hearing from other builders.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mike
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
>
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>
>TO:bolger@egroups.com
>FROM:
iff
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
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Gregg,
I live in Roseville, CA, just east of Sacramento. I'm building the
thing in my garage. This is my first boat. I've wanted to build a boat
for many years but never had a place to build, the time to build and
the money all at the same time. I actually bought the plans from
Dynamite Payson in 1989. Someone else mentioned that they are at about
the same point in construction that I am and have about 10 hours
invested so far. I must be a bit slow because I have taken much more
time than that, probably 30 hours or so, but I haven't been keeping
track of my time.
Thanks for starting this list. I really liked your web page
documenting your Light Schooner project. By the time I'm done with my
June Bug I will have taken as much time as you took to finish your
Light Schooner.
Regards,
Mike
______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: New subscriber
Author: Non-HP-ghartc (ghartc@...) at HP-Roseville,mimegw5
Date: 7/16/99 9:23 AM
Hi Mike - where are you building? Gregg
At 03:02 PM 7/15/99 -0700, you wrote:
MyPoints-Free Rewards When You're Online.
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
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I live in Roseville, CA, just east of Sacramento. I'm building the
thing in my garage. This is my first boat. I've wanted to build a boat
for many years but never had a place to build, the time to build and
the money all at the same time. I actually bought the plans from
Dynamite Payson in 1989. Someone else mentioned that they are at about
the same point in construction that I am and have about 10 hours
invested so far. I must be a bit slow because I have taken much more
time than that, probably 30 hours or so, but I haven't been keeping
track of my time.
Thanks for starting this list. I really liked your web page
documenting your Light Schooner project. By the time I'm done with my
June Bug I will have taken as much time as you took to finish your
Light Schooner.
Regards,
Mike
______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: New subscriber
Author: Non-HP-ghartc (ghartc@...) at HP-Roseville,mimegw5
Date: 7/16/99 9:23 AM
Hi Mike - where are you building? Gregg
At 03:02 PM 7/15/99 -0700, you wrote:
> Hello,------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I just joined this list and thought I'd give a brief description of my
> project. I'm building a June Bug. I have the sides assembled to the
> frames, have installed the chines and have the bottom pieces cut out
> and joined with the butt block. I started building about 2 months ago
> but I only get a few hours here and there to work on it. My 2 small
> children will sometimes "help" me by marking cut lines with a pencil
> or cleaning up with the shop vac.
>
> I'm using "super-ply" plywood and WEST systems epoxy. I only use ss
> sheet metal screws instead of the ring nails recommended in the plans.
> I like having the option of removing the screws if I need to, removing
> a ring nail sounds like it would be a nightmare. Looking forward to
> hearing from other builders.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
MyPoints-Free Rewards When You're Online.
Start with up to 150 Points for joining!
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Hi Mike - where are you building? Gregg
At 03:02 PM 7/15/99 -0700, you wrote:
eGroups.com home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger
http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
At 03:02 PM 7/15/99 -0700, you wrote:
> Hello,------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I just joined this list and thought I'd give a brief description of my
> project. I'm building a June Bug. I have the sides assembled to the
> frames, have installed the chines and have the bottom pieces cut out
> and joined with the butt block. I started building about 2 months ago
> but I only get a few hours here and there to work on it. My 2 small
> children will sometimes "help" me by marking cut lines with a pencil
> or cleaning up with the shop vac.
>
> I'm using "super-ply" plywood and WEST systems epoxy. I only use ss
> sheet metal screws instead of the ring nails recommended in the plans.
> I like having the option of removing the screws if I need to, removing
> a ring nail sounds like it would be a nightmare. Looking forward to
> hearing from other builders.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
eGroups.com home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger
http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
I'm also building June Bug, and I'm at about the same stage in the
construction process. I have the sides assembled to the
frames/stem/transom, and the chines and gunwales installed. Hope to have
the bottom installed by the end of the week. I'm building it right out of
Payson's book, and haven't had any problems thus far. I mounted the chines
externally as a matter of preference on an 'instant boat', as it further
simplifies construction. I started the boat last weekend and have put about
10 hours into the project so far. I've been keeping a log of the hours
labor involved and materials cost for future reference.
I'm a very amateur builder; this is the second boat I've built. I'd
previously built a Glen-L 10 (ply on frame sailboat). It came out nice, but
it was very heavy since I glassed the entire exterior, and it cost alot more
than it should have, because of the amount of epoxy I used. If I could have
done it over, I would have used a less expensive glue for the interior
framing, and would have only glassed the seams, and the bottom for abrasion
resistance.
Based on my last building experience, I'm trying to build June Bug as a true
'instant boat' (cheap and quick) using common/inexpensive materials. I'm
using 1/4" exterior Luan plywood, pine framing wood, and wood screws. For
glue I'm using Weldwood resorcinol glue, and will use System 3 epoxy and
fiberglass tape to glass the chines and exterior seams.
I'd like to hear from those building June Bug, and would welcome advice from
those who have built any of Bolger's instant boats.
Best regards,
John Sumrok
-----Original Message-----
From:MIKE_VACANTI@...
[mailto:MIKE_VACANTI@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 6:03 PM
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] New subscriber
Hello,
I just joined this list and thought I'd give a brief description of my
project. I'm building a June Bug. I have the sides assembled to the
frames, have installed the chines and have the bottom pieces cut out
and joined with the butt block. I started building about 2 months ago
but I only get a few hours here and there to work on it. My 2 small
children will sometimes "help" me by marking cut lines with a pencil
or cleaning up with the shop vac.
I'm using "super-ply" plywood and WEST systems epoxy. I only use ss
sheet metal screws instead of the ring nails recommended in the plans.
I like having the option of removing the screws if I need to, removing
a ring nail sounds like it would be a nightmare. Looking forward to
hearing from other builders.
Regards,
Mike
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Click Here to apply for a NextCard Internet Visa and start earning
FREE travel in HALF the time with the NextCard Rew@rds Program.
http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/449
eGroups.com home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger
http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
------------------------------------------------------------------------
eGroups.com home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger
http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
construction process. I have the sides assembled to the
frames/stem/transom, and the chines and gunwales installed. Hope to have
the bottom installed by the end of the week. I'm building it right out of
Payson's book, and haven't had any problems thus far. I mounted the chines
externally as a matter of preference on an 'instant boat', as it further
simplifies construction. I started the boat last weekend and have put about
10 hours into the project so far. I've been keeping a log of the hours
labor involved and materials cost for future reference.
I'm a very amateur builder; this is the second boat I've built. I'd
previously built a Glen-L 10 (ply on frame sailboat). It came out nice, but
it was very heavy since I glassed the entire exterior, and it cost alot more
than it should have, because of the amount of epoxy I used. If I could have
done it over, I would have used a less expensive glue for the interior
framing, and would have only glassed the seams, and the bottom for abrasion
resistance.
Based on my last building experience, I'm trying to build June Bug as a true
'instant boat' (cheap and quick) using common/inexpensive materials. I'm
using 1/4" exterior Luan plywood, pine framing wood, and wood screws. For
glue I'm using Weldwood resorcinol glue, and will use System 3 epoxy and
fiberglass tape to glass the chines and exterior seams.
I'd like to hear from those building June Bug, and would welcome advice from
those who have built any of Bolger's instant boats.
Best regards,
John Sumrok
-----Original Message-----
From:MIKE_VACANTI@...
[mailto:MIKE_VACANTI@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 6:03 PM
To:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] New subscriber
Hello,
I just joined this list and thought I'd give a brief description of my
project. I'm building a June Bug. I have the sides assembled to the
frames, have installed the chines and have the bottom pieces cut out
and joined with the butt block. I started building about 2 months ago
but I only get a few hours here and there to work on it. My 2 small
children will sometimes "help" me by marking cut lines with a pencil
or cleaning up with the shop vac.
I'm using "super-ply" plywood and WEST systems epoxy. I only use ss
sheet metal screws instead of the ring nails recommended in the plans.
I like having the option of removing the screws if I need to, removing
a ring nail sounds like it would be a nightmare. Looking forward to
hearing from other builders.
Regards,
Mike
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Click Here to apply for a NextCard Internet Visa and start earning
FREE travel in HALF the time with the NextCard Rew@rds Program.
http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/449
eGroups.com home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger
http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
Hello,
I just joined this list and thought I'd give a brief description of my
project. I'm building a June Bug. I have the sides assembled to the
frames, have installed the chines and have the bottom pieces cut out
and joined with the butt block. I started building about 2 months ago
but I only get a few hours here and there to work on it. My 2 small
children will sometimes "help" me by marking cut lines with a pencil
or cleaning up with the shop vac.
I'm using "super-ply" plywood and WEST systems epoxy. I only use ss
sheet metal screws instead of the ring nails recommended in the plans.
I like having the option of removing the screws if I need to, removing
a ring nail sounds like it would be a nightmare. Looking forward to
hearing from other builders.
Regards,
Mike
------------------------------------------------------------------------
eGroups.com home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger
http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications
I just joined this list and thought I'd give a brief description of my
project. I'm building a June Bug. I have the sides assembled to the
frames, have installed the chines and have the bottom pieces cut out
and joined with the butt block. I started building about 2 months ago
but I only get a few hours here and there to work on it. My 2 small
children will sometimes "help" me by marking cut lines with a pencil
or cleaning up with the shop vac.
I'm using "super-ply" plywood and WEST systems epoxy. I only use ss
sheet metal screws instead of the ring nails recommended in the plans.
I like having the option of removing the screws if I need to, removing
a ring nail sounds like it would be a nightmare. Looking forward to
hearing from other builders.
Regards,
Mike
------------------------------------------------------------------------
eGroups.com home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger
http://www.egroups.com- Simplifying group communications