RE: [bolger] New Designs of Larger Sharpies

Actually, his design is 15' and yes, the plans are a steal at twice what
Dave charges.

Jim

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Goeckermann [mailto:jim@...]
> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 4:02 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] New Designs of Larger Sharpies
>
>
> Looking for a 20 footer that is easy to build? Add Carnell's
> $200 sailboat to the list - really a
> Bolger design, but his plans are a steal at $20, and the lateen
> rig is easy and fast.
> Here is the go-get-'um:
>http://home.att.net/~DaveCarnell/sailboat.html
> Jim (G)
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Anyone mention Archeaopteryx? Now there's a boat that looks fast. Bolger said in SMALL BOATS that the builders report it is very fast. Construction looks relatively simple.

In a message dated 4/20/2001 9:02:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
pvanderw@...writes:

<< It comes down to what you mean by fast, and what you mean by easy to
build. >>

There is always the Hartley Trailer Sailor 16 - I understand this is a very
fast and impressive little boat. Steve Anderson

---pvanderw@...wrote:

>
> It comes down to what you mean by fast, and what you
> mean by easy to
> build.
>

I'd agree with your sentiments Peter. My Windsprint
was pretty fast for what it was, but in the right
conditions a planing dinghy like a Laser or even a
Sunfish would kill it. You could buy a used Laser or
Sunfish for less than a well-made Windsprint would
cost. Once again, the question we always have to ask
is do you want a boat or do you want to *build* a
boat. If it's the former, hitting the used boat market
almost always a better ecomomic decision.

Best,

JB

__________________________________________________
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It comes down to what you mean by fast, and what you mean by easy to
build.

A really fast boat by modern standards is probably going to call for
an expensive rig. If speed is the real aim, you might look at Richard
Woods Pixie design.http://www.sailingcatamarans.com/Pixie.html

If you want a more ordinary sloop there is the Windmill, or the Arch
Davis Ace 14.

http://www.by-the-sea.com/archdavisdesign/davis_ace14.html

Among Bolger boats, there are several choices. I think that Surf
would give the most performance for the money and effort, but there
are advocates of June Bug and Windsprint. He probably has about 20
other designs in the same size range with various mixes of weight,
freeboard, performance, looks, and building difficulty. Just to name
a few: Thomaston Galley, Felucca, Coldwater Sailboard, Cynthia J.,
Pirate Racer, Wisp, Spartina, Jinni, Common Sense Skiff, Featherwind,
Catfish, Cartopper, Gypsy, Sparkler, etc. Plenty of room to exercise
personal preference.

Peter

In a message dated 4/19/01 7:52:12 AM Central Daylight Time,
pvanderw@... writes:

(That's what makes Chris's sig a line a
joke. Get it?)

Actually, I didn't get it until Stan's evil twin pointed it out! (O.K., I'm
slow, I know.)

Bill in MN

I would second that it is a great boat and great performance. inexpensive
and easy to build and the plans
ought to be in everyone's library. It is a 15'6" boat, not a
twenty footer.

James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Goeckermann" <jim@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 4:01 PM
Subject: [bolger] New Designs of Larger Sharpies

> Looking for a 20 footer that is easy to build? Add Carnell's $200
sailboat to the list - really a
> Bolger design, but his plans are a steal at $20, and the lateen rig is
easy and fast.
> Here is the go-get-'um:
>http://home.att.net/~DaveCarnell/sailboat.html
> Jim (G)
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Looking for a 20 footer that is easy to build? Add Carnell's $200 sailboat to the list - really a
Bolger design, but his plans are a steal at $20, and the lateen rig is easy and fast.
Here is the go-get-'um:
http://home.att.net/~DaveCarnell/sailboat.html
Jim (G)

Ain't nothing easier than a Windsprint.

Seehttp://jmbell.home.mindspring.com/boatyard.htm

JB

---edham72@...wrote:

> hi, dose any one know of good design for a fast
> sailboat about 16',
> that is easy to build
> ed
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts
> off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box
> 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

hey, what all this talk about who knows what, and this is that ?
i'm just sittin here scraching my......head and wondering...
ed

hi, dose any one know of good design for a fast sailboat about 16',
that is easy to build
ed

learning requires a bit of humility and an open mind. passing off
other peoples ideas as your own dose not.
I would rather remain as a student, and have a friendly discourse
about boats.
julian

On Thu, 19 Apr 2001KF4call@...wrote:

> It has also been shown that, for most of the population, most of the
> time, those who have less knowledge of a subject have more confidence
> that they are correct in their knowledge than those who have more
> knowledge of that same subject. (this applies as a generalization, not
> to each specific person)

True. Worse yet, I can even give you the academic citation for this.
[But you're better off not asking. :-) ]

-Chris

> > Perhaps you've not read Shantyboat by Harlan Hubbard? A great classic.

On Wed, 18 Apr 2001wmrpage@...wrote:
> No, I haven't. Haven't even heard of it. Out of print, I imagine. I'll
> have to check it out on Abe later. Thanks for the referral. I hope you
> will identify the "dogs" when you post your list.

Actually, it's in print, because it's published by the University of
Kentucky Press. They sell it for $14, which is a great price. I
recommend buying the new copy--it's probably at least as cheap as a used
one with postage added, and buying new helps keep it in print for future
generations.

If you're at all interested in the shantyboat life, this book is probably
the best classic of the bunch--readable, good art, and likeable writer.
Plus, his adventures seem like the kind that you or I might actually do.

> P.S. what the Hell is the Duhem-Quine Hypothesis anyway?

I'll answer this one off-list, to anyone who cares to know. (It's a
philosophy of science joke.)

Chris Crandallcrandall@...(785) 864-4131
Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.

> It has also been shown that, for most of the population, most of

the time, those who have less knowledge of a subject have more
confidence that they are correct in their knowledge than those who
have more knowledge of that same subject.

Now I know why I am so damn confused all the time. It's because I am
so knowledgable. And I thought it was lack of sleep and/or old age.

Another way to state the D-Q hypothesis is that a propostition can
not be disproved by data. (That's what makes Chris's sig a line a
joke. Get it?) We see this all the time. Something is tested and
fails. Then the proponents say , 'Well, if would have worked if
only....(put some unrelated issue here).'

Peter

ill in MN writes:

>P.S. what the Hell is the Duhem-Quine Hypothesis anyway?

>Bill,

> This hypothesis states that knowledge claims are always
>underdetermined. That is,
>available evidence is never of itself strong enough to rule out
>competing knowledge
>claims. Therefore, what gets accepted as knowledge must be the result of
>social
>pressures which allow some claims more legitimacy than others.

> Aren't you glad you asked? There has got to be a lesson here for

Bolgerites.

>Vince Chew

It has also been shown that, for most of the population, most of the time,
those who have less knowledge of a subject have more confidence that they are
correct in their knowledge than those who have more knowledge of that same
subject. (this applies as a generalization, not to each specific person)

Regards,
Warren

Hi Vince,
Are you sure?

> This hypothesis states that knowledge claims are always
> underdetermined. That is,
> available evidence is never of itself strong enough to rule out
> competing knowledge
> claims. Therefore, what gets accepted as knowledge must be the result of
> social
> pressures which allow some claims more legitimacy than others.

Isn't there the chance you might be mistaken?

Stan's evil twin, also of the Snow Goose. ;-)

Bill in MN writes:

>P.S. what the Hell is the Duhem-Quine Hypothesis anyway?

Bill,

This hypothesis states that knowledge claims are always
underdetermined. That is,
available evidence is never of itself strong enough to rule out
competing knowledge
claims. Therefore, what gets accepted as knowledge must be the result of
social
pressures which allow some claims more legitimacy than others.

Aren't you glad you asked? There has got to be a lesson here for Bolgerites.

Vince Chew

I will throw in Arthur Ransom's series for re-readability (betcha that's
not a word). They have been recommended on this site as well as by
Bolger before. I have read them all at least 5 times and some as many as
12. They are not just children's stories, though they played a large
part in my childhood. My bow and arrow set on the wall used to have
"eels forever" written on the arrows. I used to dream of camping in
small boats on Islands, and now I live where there are easily 20 islands
in a short distance that I can camp on. They are all still in print
though hard to get in libraries.

HJ

Chris Crandall wrote:

>
> On Tue, 17 Apr 2001wmrpage@...wrote:
> > (Ranting, because Patrick O'Brian's prose ("Master and Commander"
> > excepted) does not stand up to re-reading as well as Bolger's
> > seemingly off-hand remarks about matters nautical, and I've run short
> > of good reading material.)
>
> Ah, there is no shortage of good reading material, nautical or otherwise.
> It's not a problem of supply, but rather distribution.
>
> Perhaps you've not read Shantyboat by Harlan Hubbard? A great classic.
> I will list, soon, a quickie description of old-timey shantyboat books
> worth reading--there are about 6 or 7 of them, and a few not really worth
> reading, but included from completeness.
>
> Chris Crandallcrandall@...(785) 864-4131
> Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
> I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

In a message dated 4/18/01 5:19:07 PM Central Daylight Time,
crandall@... writes:

Perhaps you've not read Shantyboat by Harlan Hubbard? A great classic.

No, I haven't. Haven't even heard of it. Out of print, I imagine. I'll have
to check it out on Abe later. Thanks for the referral. I hope you will
identify the "dogs" when you post your list.

(Nice weather today, but rivers are still at flood stage, and I exagerated
when I said the ice was off the lakes - going to be a late break-up this year
north of here.)

Bill in MN

P.S. what the Hell is the Duhem-Quine Hypothesis anyway?

On Tue, 17 Apr 2001wmrpage@...wrote:

> (Ranting, because Patrick O'Brian's prose ("Master and Commander"
> excepted) does not stand up to re-reading as well as Bolger's
> seemingly off-hand remarks about matters nautical, and I've run short
> of good reading material.)

Ah, there is no shortage of good reading material, nautical or otherwise.
It's not a problem of supply, but rather distribution.

Perhaps you've not read Shantyboat by Harlan Hubbard? A great classic.
I will list, soon, a quickie description of old-timey shantyboat books
worth reading--there are about 6 or 7 of them, and a few not really worth
reading, but included from completeness.

Chris Crandallcrandall@...(785) 864-4131
Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.

In a message dated 4/15/01 10:46:51 PM Central Daylight Time, pbs@...
writes:

I know that they are also working on an even larger power sharpie, about
100'. This design seems to have a steel hull and a plywood and rigid
insulating foam sandwich deck. The boat is supposed to be able to go
through the European canals and get there on it's own bottom from the
Americas.

What an extravagant idea! (Not the proposed capability, which is as romantic
as can be, but the scale of the thing! How does a skipper
man/feed/poop/shower/sleep etc. a crew for a 100' boat? If the crew is fueled
on beans, would an anaerobic digester provide enough fuel to power the
vessel? The mind boggles!) Bolger is nothing, if not BOLD!

All seriousness aside, shouldn't someone be prodding the Maestro to publish
another book? The dedication to my paperback edition of BWAOM (McGraw
Hill/International Marine/TAB Books, ca. 1994) cites 4 persons as having
"charmed or bullied me out of the contented inertia which is my natural
state". Perhaps someone should be charming him again. (I'm skeptical about
the "contented inertia" bit - my impression is that he never stops thinking
critically about boats.)

All of the excellent research work that Howard Chapelle did years ago would
be simply gathering dust at the Smithsonian (or worse, reduced to microfilm)
had not he and W.W. Norton teamed up to publish "American Small Sailing
Craft". If Chapelle caused 100 boats to be built, and 1000 more to be dreamt
of, Bolger has probably quantitatively exceeded that by an order of magnitude
- but it is a much bigger, much more populous, much more affluent world that
we live in today. Much of his good stuff was published in the old "Small Boat
Journal", or is currently published in the (excellent, but limited
circulation) MAIB or has (unfortunately) gone out of print (How could a book
with such a sexy title (and sexy content!) like "The Folding Schooner And
Other Adventures" be allowed to go out of print?) Bolger probably has already
published enough to have been as influential as I think Chapelle was. BUT I
WANT ANOTHER BOLGER BOOK! (not right now, mind you, but after Labor Day and
the freeze-up)

(Ranting, because Patrick O'Brian's prose ("Master and Commander" excepted)
does not stand up to re-reading as well as Bolger's seemingly off-hand
remarks about matters nautical, and I've run short of good reading material.)

Bill in MN
(Ice is out, rivers are flooding, snow yesterday; boating is just a fantasy!)

A Phil and Friends customer has a large, 45-55', steel sharpie designed
with sub-artic insulation under way in B.C. This is a sail boat with two
fairly small auxiliaries. These guys are planning to winter over in the
Hudson's Bay area. Not my cup of tea.

I know that they are also working on an even larger power sharpie, about
100'. This design seems to have a steel hull and a plywood and rigid
insulating foam sandwich deck. The boat is supposed to be able to go
through the European canals and get there on it's own bottom from the
Americas. One of the very interesting things about this design is that
PB&F have figured out how to have no through hull openings, not even the
propeller shaft goes through the hull below the waterline. This should
make it harder to sink by accident.

I don't believe that either design has been published yet.

Phil Smith