Re: Long Micro
Toad
I have not built a LM. My Oldshoe was my first project and I built it with nothing but the plans and the instructions which came with them. I built over 7 months and had little help.
I have since bought many books, various sets of plans, built a couple of smaller boats and even a wooden model of the light schooner.
I would agree with anyone who suggests building models of big boats before going full scale to make sure one fully understands what is going to happen (and what it will really look like).
I believe I would have made a few less mistakes with Oldshoe if I had read everything I have since before building. However, I'm not sure I would ever have got round to building her at all.
My personal concern with Micro and Long Micro was the lead slug for the keel. Oldshoe at 200lbs easier. I had someone else fill it for me, but it wasn't impossibly difficult.
If you are a competent carpenter, I would not worry too much about starting with LM. If you are not, I would start with any one of the original type of instant boats as a primer. The bigger boats have stiffer materials but less pronounced curves.
My feeling is that Payson is right when he says that mistakes which look terrible on the model don't show at all on the real thing. I have fiddled more with Nymph than I did with Oldshoe, although I spent more time on and got a lot more boat from Oldshoe.
David
Santiago, Chile
I have not built a LM. My Oldshoe was my first project and I built it with nothing but the plans and the instructions which came with them. I built over 7 months and had little help.
I have since bought many books, various sets of plans, built a couple of smaller boats and even a wooden model of the light schooner.
I would agree with anyone who suggests building models of big boats before going full scale to make sure one fully understands what is going to happen (and what it will really look like).
I believe I would have made a few less mistakes with Oldshoe if I had read everything I have since before building. However, I'm not sure I would ever have got round to building her at all.
My personal concern with Micro and Long Micro was the lead slug for the keel. Oldshoe at 200lbs easier. I had someone else fill it for me, but it wasn't impossibly difficult.
If you are a competent carpenter, I would not worry too much about starting with LM. If you are not, I would start with any one of the original type of instant boats as a primer. The bigger boats have stiffer materials but less pronounced curves.
My feeling is that Payson is right when he says that mistakes which look terrible on the model don't show at all on the real thing. I have fiddled more with Nymph than I did with Oldshoe, although I spent more time on and got a lot more boat from Oldshoe.
David
Santiago, Chile
Toad,
So far you have received excellent advice from the list. Yes, build a model of the boat first. Also consider building something small (a PDR or June Bug) first, to get proficient with some of the techniques you'll need (working with epoxy and glass, laying smooth fillets, making glue, cutting ply, etc.). I learned a lot building my Bolger Gypsy. Tackling a Long Micro (LM) build first thing out of the box is taking on a lot. Building somethings this big isn't a sprint, it's a marathon. You'll need to keep yourself fueled with lots of dreams to complete this.
With that said, you can build LM from 3/8 inch ply, or use 1/2 for the sides and cabin deck and 3/8 inch for the rest (which is what I did. I recommend it). I also built a self-bailing cockpit (which takes more time, materials, and ruins a bunch of storage space under the cockpit seats- good for day sailing, bad for cruising).
All told, my LM took:
6 sheets of 4x10 foot, 1/2 inch plywood
15 sheets of 4/8 foot, 3/8 inch plywood
26 yds (50" wide) 6 oz. fiberglass cloth
67 yds of fiberglass tape
approx. 22 gallons of epoxy/hardener
Others (Dan Gonneau) claim they built in approx. 800 hours. I took 917 carefully documented hours to build. My build cost me about $10,000 (in 2003-2007 US dollars), including $1500 for the sails, about $1500 for the outboard.
I've left a trail of crumbs all over the web concerning how my LM (Pugnacious) sails:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oWsB-iFJ98-cruising the North Channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vXqmS-q9Mc&feature=fvw-building
http://www.youtube.com/user/BillKingOhio#p/u/5/fg5iRw0xpYg- sailing
Pictures on Flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23898186@N02/
and my response on Woodenboat forum to a question (post #12):
http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?101069-How-do-Bolger-boats-really-sail
Talking about my LM is really the only thing I can contribute to this list. So ask questions if you like. And when you start building, please share pictures and updates with everyone. We enjoy watching a new Bolger creation take shape and we'll help keep you focused.
Bill, now in Texas
So far you have received excellent advice from the list. Yes, build a model of the boat first. Also consider building something small (a PDR or June Bug) first, to get proficient with some of the techniques you'll need (working with epoxy and glass, laying smooth fillets, making glue, cutting ply, etc.). I learned a lot building my Bolger Gypsy. Tackling a Long Micro (LM) build first thing out of the box is taking on a lot. Building somethings this big isn't a sprint, it's a marathon. You'll need to keep yourself fueled with lots of dreams to complete this.
With that said, you can build LM from 3/8 inch ply, or use 1/2 for the sides and cabin deck and 3/8 inch for the rest (which is what I did. I recommend it). I also built a self-bailing cockpit (which takes more time, materials, and ruins a bunch of storage space under the cockpit seats- good for day sailing, bad for cruising).
All told, my LM took:
6 sheets of 4x10 foot, 1/2 inch plywood
15 sheets of 4/8 foot, 3/8 inch plywood
26 yds (50" wide) 6 oz. fiberglass cloth
67 yds of fiberglass tape
approx. 22 gallons of epoxy/hardener
Others (Dan Gonneau) claim they built in approx. 800 hours. I took 917 carefully documented hours to build. My build cost me about $10,000 (in 2003-2007 US dollars), including $1500 for the sails, about $1500 for the outboard.
I've left a trail of crumbs all over the web concerning how my LM (Pugnacious) sails:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oWsB-iFJ98-cruising the North Channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vXqmS-q9Mc&feature=fvw-building
http://www.youtube.com/user/BillKingOhio#p/u/5/fg5iRw0xpYg- sailing
Pictures on Flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23898186@N02/
and my response on Woodenboat forum to a question (post #12):
http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?101069-How-do-Bolger-boats-really-sail
Talking about my LM is really the only thing I can contribute to this list. So ask questions if you like. And when you start building, please share pictures and updates with everyone. We enjoy watching a new Bolger creation take shape and we'll help keep you focused.
Bill, now in Texas
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "The Toad" <thetoad45@...> wrote:
>
> Could anyone having built the Long Micro tell me how many sheets of plywood it calls for? How much epoxy? Does anyone have any photos of the interior? This would be my first sailboat attempt. Was a toss up between the LM and a regular Micro. Liked the extra room. Your opinions about this design and handling would be appreciated. Thank you. :-)
>
> In chosing from these two, it's interesting to note how littleThe impression that I've gotten from reading reports suggest that LM has relatively speaking more canvas, and is the more exciting boat to sail. Somewhere PCB (or SA?) wrote that the prevailing view in the office was that LM was worth the extra time and money. That's probably true, but even Micro is at the big end of projects for a amateur.
> different the lead ballast keels are, 420 and 532 pounds.
> Yet LM is a much larger boat.
LM was designed after a lot of experience with Micro. PCB always learned from experience.
Trying to figure up my own retirement cruiser at + or - 650 pounds dry has me thinking a lot ( maybe even feverishly ) about weight.
In chosing from these two, it's interesting to note how little different the lead ballast keels are, 420 and 532 pounds. Yet LM is a much larger boat. Wolfard's weights for the two are 875 and 1500 pounds.
On Dec 28, 2010, at 7:50 AM, Bruce Hallman wrote:
If I were building a Long Micro I would figure about 16 sheets of 1/2
plywood, five gallons of epoxy and about 500 manhours.
Build video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vXqmS-q9Mc
Sailing Long Micro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oWsB-iFJ98&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
Nels
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vXqmS-q9Mc
Sailing Long Micro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oWsB-iFJ98&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> Info supplied by a builder in 2006. Prices would be higher now.
> (Bill is a member here and will likely respond as well at some point.)
>
Info supplied by a builder in 2006. Prices would be higher now.
(Bill is a member here and will likely respond as well at some point.)
(Bill is a member here and will likely respond as well at some point.)
Per your request, here is a rough list of the materials I have used to
date, and the costs, for my LM. I've included a list of the things I
still need to purchase. I have also included a list of tools I found
most helpful. I did most of my sanding by hand, although a sanding
disk on my drill came in handy. Other readers should keep in mind
that I opted for 1/2 inch sides and decking, and I built a
self-bailing cockpit with substantial framing under the cockpit sole.
As I look at the total materails, it's obvious that it all adds up.
-Bill, in Ohio
Long Micro-
Construction materials used (to date- Jan. 31, 2006)
17 gallons of epoxy (I expect to use a total of 20.5 gallons) (at
approx. $50/ gallon) 1050.00
6 sheets of 4 foot x 10 foot .5 inch marine ply ($75 x 6) 450.00
15 sheets of 4 foot x 8 foot 3/8 inch marine ply ($48 x 15) 720.00
25 yds of 6 oz., 50 inch fiberglass cloth ($162) 162.00
50 yds of 9 oz. 3 inch wide fiberglass tape ($26) 26.00
17 yds of 9 oz. 2 inch wide fiberglass tape ($16) (not enough- 25 or 30.00
30 yds would have been better).
6 qts wood flour ($35) 35.00
1 qt no skid grit ($18) 18.00
1 gal top paint ($98) 98.00
1 qt top paint ($37) 37.00
1 gal primer ($62) 62.00
2 qt primer ($52) 52.00
2 gal bottom paint ($190) 190.00
misc hardware (silicone bronze bolts, screws, stainless hinges, 170.00 3100.00
inspection port) ($170)
a couple yds of old, 4 oz. fiberglass cloth (for flooding wells and
cockpit sole)
Many 2x4's, 2x6's, and pine boards (chine logs, rub rails, framing,
mast and spars)
misc plate steel for the all-metal rudder
Things I have not purchased yet:
wiring, lights, battery, switch panel
Sails. Rigging. Cleats (etc.)
Ground tackle
Consumables
latex gloves (approx 300 so far)
chip brushes
yogurt cups (I love yogurt!)
sand paper (lots of sandpaper)
sheetrock screws
tongue depressors
small rollers and roller pans
tape
Tools
Skil saw (plywood blade and rip blade)
drill/power screw driver
table saw
handheld jig saw
router (not necessary, but very handy)
chisels, hand saws, hammer
epoxy plunger pump set
Sails from Duckworks 1300.00
Motor 5 HP Briggs and Stratton 4-stroke 750.00
Trailer 1500.00
Sub total so far 6650.00
--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "The Toad" <thetoad45@...> wrote:
>
> Could anyone having built the Long Micro tell me how many sheets of plywood it calls for? How much epoxy? Does anyone have any photos of the interior? This would be my first sailboat attempt. Was a toss up between the LM and a regular Micro. Liked the extra room. Your opinions about this design and handling would be appreciated. Thank you. :-)
>
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 7:22 AM, The Toad <thetoad45@...> wrote:
Time spent building models pays itself back many times over when you
get around to building full size.
If I were building a Long Micro I would figure about 16 sheets of 1/2
plywood, five gallons of epoxy and about 500 manhours.
>Can I suggest building a scale model first? Or better, build both.
>
>
> Could anyone having built the Long Micro tell me how many sheets of plywood it calls for? How much epoxy? Does anyone have any photos of the interior? This would be my first sailboat attempt. Was a toss up between the LM and a regular Micro. Liked the extra room. Your opinions about this design and handling would be appreciated. Thank you. :-)
>
Time spent building models pays itself back many times over when you
get around to building full size.
If I were building a Long Micro I would figure about 16 sheets of 1/2
plywood, five gallons of epoxy and about 500 manhours.
If you do a search with google for Long Micro, you
should find a bunch of links. Many will show the insides.
And I think there are some in the photo area of
this group.
Michael Allison
Could anyone having built the Long Micro tell me how many sheets of plywood it calls for? How much epoxy? Does anyone have any photos of the interior? This would be my first sailboat attempt. Was a toss up between the LM and a regular Micro. Liked the extra room. Your opinions about this design and handling would be appreciated. Thank you. :-)
Does anyone know the approximate weight of Long Micro ready to go
minus motor and stores?
Charles Rouse
minus motor and stores?
Charles Rouse
-
Good stuff Garth,
I find it very interesting that both the Micro and the Old Shoe are
susceptable to capsizing 2.03 and 2.14 respectively. Comfort ratio is
15.53 and 12.32.
Now, it all depends on where and how you use the boat, but all the
sailing reports I have read speak very highly of high stability and
comfort for the most part. Flat bottom slapping, leeway issues. We
are dealing with small, shallow drafted sailboats here.. they are
what they are. I would imagine in skilled capable hands, these boats
could take a person most anywhere (at least the Micro).
I chose a boat that would be comfortable and easy to handle and sail
as a day sailor, mostly lake sailing. Sit back, relax and let the
boat tend to herself. I believe that I got just that in the Old
Shoe.. someday, I'll tell you all first hand from personal experience.
Regards,
Dennis
Bellingham, WA
-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "GarthAB" <garth@...> wrote:
Good stuff Garth,
I find it very interesting that both the Micro and the Old Shoe are
susceptable to capsizing 2.03 and 2.14 respectively. Comfort ratio is
15.53 and 12.32.
Now, it all depends on where and how you use the boat, but all the
sailing reports I have read speak very highly of high stability and
comfort for the most part. Flat bottom slapping, leeway issues. We
are dealing with small, shallow drafted sailboats here.. they are
what they are. I would imagine in skilled capable hands, these boats
could take a person most anywhere (at least the Micro).
I chose a boat that would be comfortable and easy to handle and sail
as a day sailor, mostly lake sailing. Sit back, relax and let the
boat tend to herself. I believe that I got just that in the Old
Shoe.. someday, I'll tell you all first hand from personal experience.
Regards,
Dennis
Bellingham, WA
-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "GarthAB" <garth@...> wrote:
>is:
> Thanks, Derek. That's where they came from.
>
> The Capsize formula (http://www.sailingusa.info/cal__capsize.htm)
> Capsize Screening Formula = Beam / (Displacement / 64)1/3(http://www.sailingusa.info/motion_comfort.htm)
> Displacement is in Pounds
> Beam is Measured in Feet
>
> Motion Comfort Ratio
> was developed by Boat Designer Ted Brewer. The formula predictsthe
> speed of the upward and downward motion of the boat as it encountersboat
> waves and swells. The faster the motion the more uncomfortable the
> passengers. Thus, the formula predicts the overall comfort of a
> when it is underway. Higher values denote a more comfortable ride.increase.
> As the Displacement increases the motion comfort ratio will
> As the length and beam increases the motion comfort ratio willdecrease.
>especially "Capsize
> MCR = Disp / (2/3*((7/10 * LWL)+(1/3 *LOA))*Beam4/3 )
>
> Fun stuff to play with -- probably best for comparing two or three
> different boats, as Pippo did.
>
> Garth
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "alefoot" <dgw@> wrote:
> >
> > > Those sail calculator numbers are interesting,
> > > Ratio" and "Motion Comfort." What program did he use to getthose?
> >
> > Possibly from the calculator pages at Sailing USA
> >
> > For example, here's the sa/d page...
> >http://www.sailingusa.info/cal__sad_ratio.htm
> > ...and the others can be seen there.
> >
> > cheers
> > Derek
> >
>
Thanks, Derek. That's where they came from.
The Capsize formula (http://www.sailingusa.info/cal__capsize.htm)is:
Capsize Screening Formula = Beam / (Displacement / 64)1/3
Displacement is in Pounds
Beam is Measured in Feet
Motion Comfort Ratio (http://www.sailingusa.info/motion_comfort.htm)
was developed by Boat Designer Ted Brewer. The formula predicts the
speed of the upward and downward motion of the boat as it encounters
waves and swells. The faster the motion the more uncomfortable the
passengers. Thus, the formula predicts the overall comfort of a boat
when it is underway. Higher values denote a more comfortable ride.
As the Displacement increases the motion comfort ratio will increase.
As the length and beam increases the motion comfort ratio will decrease.
MCR = Disp / (2/3*((7/10 * LWL)+(1/3 *LOA))*Beam4/3 )
Fun stuff to play with -- probably best for comparing two or three
different boats, as Pippo did.
Garth
The Capsize formula (http://www.sailingusa.info/cal__capsize.htm)is:
Capsize Screening Formula = Beam / (Displacement / 64)1/3
Displacement is in Pounds
Beam is Measured in Feet
Motion Comfort Ratio (http://www.sailingusa.info/motion_comfort.htm)
was developed by Boat Designer Ted Brewer. The formula predicts the
speed of the upward and downward motion of the boat as it encounters
waves and swells. The faster the motion the more uncomfortable the
passengers. Thus, the formula predicts the overall comfort of a boat
when it is underway. Higher values denote a more comfortable ride.
As the Displacement increases the motion comfort ratio will increase.
As the length and beam increases the motion comfort ratio will decrease.
MCR = Disp / (2/3*((7/10 * LWL)+(1/3 *LOA))*Beam4/3 )
Fun stuff to play with -- probably best for comparing two or three
different boats, as Pippo did.
Garth
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "alefoot" <dgw@...> wrote:
>
> > Those sail calculator numbers are interesting, especially "Capsize
> > Ratio" and "Motion Comfort." What program did he use to get those?
>
> Possibly from the calculator pages at Sailing USA
>
> For example, here's the sa/d page...
>http://www.sailingusa.info/cal__sad_ratio.htm
> ...and the others can be seen there.
>
> cheers
> Derek
>
> Those sail calculator numbers are interesting, especially "CapsizePossibly from the calculator pages at Sailing USA
> Ratio" and "Motion Comfort." What program did he use to get those?
For example, here's the sa/d page...
http://www.sailingusa.info/cal__sad_ratio.htm
...and the others can be seen there.
cheers
Derek
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill" <kingw@...> wrote:
Ratio" and "Motion Comfort." What program did he use to get those? I'd
love to see a spreadsheet done for a big batch of Bolger and Michalak
boats.
Garth
> comes from Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco, who compared the Chebacco to MicroThose sail calculator numbers are interesting, especially "Capsize
> "The sail calculator crunches those numbers and rapidly comes out with
> the following sentences for our boat (compared hereafter with the
> corresponding data for the Micro and Long Micro):
Ratio" and "Motion Comfort." What program did he use to get those? I'd
love to see a spreadsheet done for a big batch of Bolger and Michalak
boats.
Garth
Michael(?),
I'm in the final weeks of constructing my LM, so I cannot tell you how
it sails. Dan Gonneau (Zephyr) claims that he sailed most of the time
with one reef in. The remnants of his webpage and LM FAQ are tucked
away somewhere on one of the Bolger/Yahoo sites. My contribution
comes from Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco, who compared the Chebacco to Micro
and LM in Chebacco news #26.
http://www.chebacco.com/chebacco_news/ch26.htm
I have reproduced his text below, but bear in mind he's talking about
Chebacco first, and comparing it to the micro and LM.
"The sail calculator crunches those numbers and rapidly comes out with
the following sentences for our boat (compared hereafter with the
corresponding data for the Micro and Long Micro):
Category: racer. Carl classifies the boats into four categories:
racer, racer/cruiser, cruiser/racer and cruiser, in descending order
of performance. Micro classifies as racer/cruiser, while Long Micro
gets a cruiser score.
Capsize Ratio: 2.5. This number is an indicator of a boat's ability to
resist to the capsize: a value lesser than 2 is considered good; the
higher the number, the more vulnerable is the boat. Micro gets 2.0,
Long Micro 1.8, so both are stiffer than the Chebacco.
Hull speed: 5.5 knots . This figure depends only on the LWL. Micro
4.7, Long Micro 5.3.
Sail area displacement ratio: 19.5 . This is an indication of how
powerful a sail plan is with respect to the vessel's displacement.
Values around 18 and higher indicate high performance boats. Micro
gets 17.5, Long Micro 23.5.
Displacement length ratio: 170 (light). Micro sports a huge 411
(heavy), Long Micro an average 274 (moderate).
Length to beam ratio: 2.24. Micro gets 2.21, Long Micro 2.63. A value
of 2.7 is considered average; 2.2 is low.
Motion comfort: 10.6. This numbers depends on a complex way from
displacement, length and beam: the higher the number, the more
comfortable is the boat. Micro gets 17.8, Long Micro boosts a 20.1.
As an LM builder, I think everyone should build an LM. I think it
would be the perfect boat for cruising along the gulf shore. I recall
that the Cruetzburg's took their LM on a considerable voyage along the
gulf shore (around the FL panhandle).
Bill, in Ohio
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "michaelmickjoseph"
<michaelmickjoseph@...> wrote:
I'm in the final weeks of constructing my LM, so I cannot tell you how
it sails. Dan Gonneau (Zephyr) claims that he sailed most of the time
with one reef in. The remnants of his webpage and LM FAQ are tucked
away somewhere on one of the Bolger/Yahoo sites. My contribution
comes from Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco, who compared the Chebacco to Micro
and LM in Chebacco news #26.
http://www.chebacco.com/chebacco_news/ch26.htm
I have reproduced his text below, but bear in mind he's talking about
Chebacco first, and comparing it to the micro and LM.
"The sail calculator crunches those numbers and rapidly comes out with
the following sentences for our boat (compared hereafter with the
corresponding data for the Micro and Long Micro):
Category: racer. Carl classifies the boats into four categories:
racer, racer/cruiser, cruiser/racer and cruiser, in descending order
of performance. Micro classifies as racer/cruiser, while Long Micro
gets a cruiser score.
Capsize Ratio: 2.5. This number is an indicator of a boat's ability to
resist to the capsize: a value lesser than 2 is considered good; the
higher the number, the more vulnerable is the boat. Micro gets 2.0,
Long Micro 1.8, so both are stiffer than the Chebacco.
Hull speed: 5.5 knots . This figure depends only on the LWL. Micro
4.7, Long Micro 5.3.
Sail area displacement ratio: 19.5 . This is an indication of how
powerful a sail plan is with respect to the vessel's displacement.
Values around 18 and higher indicate high performance boats. Micro
gets 17.5, Long Micro 23.5.
Displacement length ratio: 170 (light). Micro sports a huge 411
(heavy), Long Micro an average 274 (moderate).
Length to beam ratio: 2.24. Micro gets 2.21, Long Micro 2.63. A value
of 2.7 is considered average; 2.2 is low.
Motion comfort: 10.6. This numbers depends on a complex way from
displacement, length and beam: the higher the number, the more
comfortable is the boat. Micro gets 17.8, Long Micro boosts a 20.1.
As an LM builder, I think everyone should build an LM. I think it
would be the perfect boat for cruising along the gulf shore. I recall
that the Cruetzburg's took their LM on a considerable voyage along the
gulf shore (around the FL panhandle).
Bill, in Ohio
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "michaelmickjoseph"
<michaelmickjoseph@...> wrote:
>
> Would this be a good choice for a coastal cruiser for use in the Gulf
> of Mexico? I had my eye on the Micro but the added size of the Long
> Micro has it's appeal. I need some advise on this craft. Is she as
> stable as the Micro? More so? Thats a lot of sail. Do people find they
> sail mostly with a reef in? This is a perfect size cruiser for one guy.
>
> Bolgers plans. I'm looking for a small coastal cruiser and L.M. isIn nearly this same size range is the Jessie Cooper. I have long been
> all I can come up with. Anyone have any ideas?
fond of this design. The J.C., (having no fin keel) has the advantage
of sitting flat on the bottom during low tide.. Also, the sprit
mainsail of the LM is well praised, but... others sing high praise too
of the balanced lug sail of the J.C.. A balanced lug sail is one of
the best known for easy reefing.
--
I got some info on the Long Micro along with a nice letter from Mr.
Bolger decribing both the LM and the Micro. I really like the looks
of it. I have an awful time finding a website that lists all of Mr.
Bolgers plans. I'm looking for a small coastal cruiser and L.M. is
all I can come up with. Anyone have any ideas?
- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
I got some info on the Long Micro along with a nice letter from Mr.
Bolger decribing both the LM and the Micro. I really like the looks
of it. I have an awful time finding a website that lists all of Mr.
Bolgers plans. I'm looking for a small coastal cruiser and L.M. is
all I can come up with. Anyone have any ideas?
- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
>day,
> I hadn't looked seriously at LM for a while, and can't answer your
> queries from personal knowledge - others will chime in with that
> background. I must say though that I was surprised just the other
> when considering AS19 and coastal cruising options, by therealisation
> of how little extra material goes into Long Micro over that ofMICRO. I
> mean, it's a 4ft stretch of Micro, yeah obvious, but the extrasides,
> bottom, and decking would amount to only 3 more sheets of ply. Itextra
> always *seemed* to me that there was lots more. I don't know if
> bulkheads are involved, but surely there couldn't be more than oneof
> those?15+
>
> Yes, it's half inch (12mm) ply and not quarter inch (6mm), but my
> year old Micro, like most, is made from three-eigth inch (9mm) plyby
> anyway, so the extra thickness doesn't amount to much extra whereas
> OTOH the boat is much bigger, faster, and more capable. Trailer
> towing weight is also not a lot more in actual use. Multiply that
> years of use...mostly
>
> MICRO is supposed to have an empty weight of 875lbs, including a
> ballast weight of 420lbs, leaving a rigged boat weight of 455lbs
> comprising hull materials. Make the hull three-eigths thick and itballast
> should be near 682lbs.
>
> LONG MICRO is supposed to weigh empty some 1500lbs, including
> of 532lbs, leaving a rigged boat weight of 968lbs. That's 286lbsmore
> for an "answer to everything" of 42. Percent that is. Thinking in72
> kilos, it's even better: 130kg. Why, I weigh near a hundred kaygees
> myself. That's not much at all.
>
> So: a bit more ballast; a bit more hull material, weight, and cost;
> percent more sail area, and that cost -- for big-big-bigger SA/D,and
> small-small-smaller wetted-surface/SA (discounting the extra keeldraft,
> surface for now); more speed, room, capability -- for the same
> motor, and beam.resonate
>
> I might chance PCB&F to sketch a Gaff main - the gaff would
> with the cabin topsides lines, and a more verticle mast mightreadjust
> sail centre sufficiently. Also I'd ask for their preferred methodfor
> it taking the hard upright. Might add assymetric lee-dagger boardlegs
> as part of that. Now, if Nels has that aft doghouse idea furthersneaks
> developed... I might have a reduced cLASs IV OSTAR RACER that
> into 21 inches, and struts offshore.Gulf
>
> Graeme
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "michaelmickjoseph"
> <michaelmickjoseph@> wrote:
> >
> > Would this be a good choice for a coastal cruiser for use in the
> > of Mexico? I had my eye on the Micro but the added size of theLong
> > Micro has it's appeal. I need some advise on this craft. Is sheas
> > stable as the Micro? More so? Thats a lot of sail. Do people findone
> they
> > sail mostly with a reef in? This is a perfect size cruiser for
> guy.
> >
>
I hadn't looked seriously at LM for a while, and can't answer your
queries from personal knowledge - others will chime in with that
background. I must say though that I was surprised just the other day,
when considering AS19 and coastal cruising options, by the realisation
of how little extra material goes into Long Micro over that of MICRO. I
mean, it's a 4ft stretch of Micro, yeah obvious, but the extra sides,
bottom, and decking would amount to only 3 more sheets of ply. It
always *seemed* to me that there was lots more. I don't know if extra
bulkheads are involved, but surely there couldn't be more than one of
those?
Yes, it's half inch (12mm) ply and not quarter inch (6mm), but my 15+
year old Micro, like most, is made from three-eigth inch (9mm) ply
anyway, so the extra thickness doesn't amount to much extra whereas
OTOH the boat is much bigger, faster, and more capable. Trailer
towing weight is also not a lot more in actual use. Multiply that by
years of use...
MICRO is supposed to have an empty weight of 875lbs, including a
ballast weight of 420lbs, leaving a rigged boat weight of 455lbs mostly
comprising hull materials. Make the hull three-eigths thick and it
should be near 682lbs.
LONG MICRO is supposed to weigh empty some 1500lbs, including ballast
of 532lbs, leaving a rigged boat weight of 968lbs. That's 286lbs more
for an "answer to everything" of 42. Percent that is. Thinking in
kilos, it's even better: 130kg. Why, I weigh near a hundred kaygees
myself. That's not much at all.
So: a bit more ballast; a bit more hull material, weight, and cost; 72
percent more sail area, and that cost -- for big-big-bigger SA/D, and
small-small-smaller wetted-surface/SA (discounting the extra keel
surface for now); more speed, room, capability -- for the same draft,
motor, and beam.
I might chance PCB&F to sketch a Gaff main - the gaff would resonate
with the cabin topsides lines, and a more verticle mast might readjust
sail centre sufficiently. Also I'd ask for their preferred method for
it taking the hard upright. Might add assymetric lee-dagger board legs
as part of that. Now, if Nels has that aft doghouse idea further
developed... I might have a reduced cLASs IV OSTAR RACER that sneaks
into 21 inches, and struts offshore.
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "michaelmickjoseph"
<michaelmickjoseph@...> wrote:
queries from personal knowledge - others will chime in with that
background. I must say though that I was surprised just the other day,
when considering AS19 and coastal cruising options, by the realisation
of how little extra material goes into Long Micro over that of MICRO. I
mean, it's a 4ft stretch of Micro, yeah obvious, but the extra sides,
bottom, and decking would amount to only 3 more sheets of ply. It
always *seemed* to me that there was lots more. I don't know if extra
bulkheads are involved, but surely there couldn't be more than one of
those?
Yes, it's half inch (12mm) ply and not quarter inch (6mm), but my 15+
year old Micro, like most, is made from three-eigth inch (9mm) ply
anyway, so the extra thickness doesn't amount to much extra whereas
OTOH the boat is much bigger, faster, and more capable. Trailer
towing weight is also not a lot more in actual use. Multiply that by
years of use...
MICRO is supposed to have an empty weight of 875lbs, including a
ballast weight of 420lbs, leaving a rigged boat weight of 455lbs mostly
comprising hull materials. Make the hull three-eigths thick and it
should be near 682lbs.
LONG MICRO is supposed to weigh empty some 1500lbs, including ballast
of 532lbs, leaving a rigged boat weight of 968lbs. That's 286lbs more
for an "answer to everything" of 42. Percent that is. Thinking in
kilos, it's even better: 130kg. Why, I weigh near a hundred kaygees
myself. That's not much at all.
So: a bit more ballast; a bit more hull material, weight, and cost; 72
percent more sail area, and that cost -- for big-big-bigger SA/D, and
small-small-smaller wetted-surface/SA (discounting the extra keel
surface for now); more speed, room, capability -- for the same draft,
motor, and beam.
I might chance PCB&F to sketch a Gaff main - the gaff would resonate
with the cabin topsides lines, and a more verticle mast might readjust
sail centre sufficiently. Also I'd ask for their preferred method for
it taking the hard upright. Might add assymetric lee-dagger board legs
as part of that. Now, if Nels has that aft doghouse idea further
developed... I might have a reduced cLASs IV OSTAR RACER that sneaks
into 21 inches, and struts offshore.
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "michaelmickjoseph"
<michaelmickjoseph@...> wrote:
>they
> Would this be a good choice for a coastal cruiser for use in the Gulf
> of Mexico? I had my eye on the Micro but the added size of the Long
> Micro has it's appeal. I need some advise on this craft. Is she as
> stable as the Micro? More so? Thats a lot of sail. Do people find
> sail mostly with a reef in? This is a perfect size cruiser for oneguy.
>
Would this be a good choice for a coastal cruiser for use in the Gulf
of Mexico? I had my eye on the Micro but the added size of the Long
Micro has it's appeal. I need some advise on this craft. Is she as
stable as the Micro? More so? Thats a lot of sail. Do people find they
sail mostly with a reef in? This is a perfect size cruiser for one guy.
of Mexico? I had my eye on the Micro but the added size of the Long
Micro has it's appeal. I need some advise on this craft. Is she as
stable as the Micro? More so? Thats a lot of sail. Do people find they
sail mostly with a reef in? This is a perfect size cruiser for one guy.
Bob,
Welcome to the group. I am pleased that you have decided to build an
LM, a design very dear to my heart and hands.
Estimates on building time run around 800 hours. Dan Gonneau spent
800 hours building his LM, and I am currently (as of this morn) at 740
hours of building time. That is strictly building time (not thinking
time, dreaming time, moaning-chair time, or running errands to get
boat parts time). I am nearing completion, but I will probaby hit the
800 hour mark. My previous experience had been when I build a Bolger
Gypsy 10 years ago.
The cost estimate which Nels mentioned (floating around in one of the
Yahoo bolger folders) is mine. I have not retabulated the costs
again, but I just bought my sails, and a mess of hardware, running
rigging, blocks, cleats, etc. Man, that stuff adds up quickly!
My few deviations from the plans are: 1) my anchor locker has a sealed
floor (not the loosely set floor of the plans). 2) I made a self
bailing cockpit sole (like Dan Gonneau and Andrew Pryor- I copied
there idea with some modification). 3) My rudder and rudder post are
welded of steel and coated in fiberglass and resin. 4) the aft-most
stern compartment is not free-flooding. It drains via two scuppers
under the boat. 5) I built the sides and deck of 1/2 inch (12.5 mm)
thick plywood (sheated in 6 oz. fiberglass cloth). The plans note you
can use 3/8 inch ply or 1/2 inch, so it isn't really a big modification.
Feel free to query the list or hit me off list for any advice or
encouragement. You are in for a great many hours of fun while you
build. Enjoy!
Bill, LM builder, in Ohio.
Welcome to the group. I am pleased that you have decided to build an
LM, a design very dear to my heart and hands.
Estimates on building time run around 800 hours. Dan Gonneau spent
800 hours building his LM, and I am currently (as of this morn) at 740
hours of building time. That is strictly building time (not thinking
time, dreaming time, moaning-chair time, or running errands to get
boat parts time). I am nearing completion, but I will probaby hit the
800 hour mark. My previous experience had been when I build a Bolger
Gypsy 10 years ago.
The cost estimate which Nels mentioned (floating around in one of the
Yahoo bolger folders) is mine. I have not retabulated the costs
again, but I just bought my sails, and a mess of hardware, running
rigging, blocks, cleats, etc. Man, that stuff adds up quickly!
My few deviations from the plans are: 1) my anchor locker has a sealed
floor (not the loosely set floor of the plans). 2) I made a self
bailing cockpit sole (like Dan Gonneau and Andrew Pryor- I copied
there idea with some modification). 3) My rudder and rudder post are
welded of steel and coated in fiberglass and resin. 4) the aft-most
stern compartment is not free-flooding. It drains via two scuppers
under the boat. 5) I built the sides and deck of 1/2 inch (12.5 mm)
thick plywood (sheated in 6 oz. fiberglass cloth). The plans note you
can use 3/8 inch ply or 1/2 inch, so it isn't really a big modification.
Feel free to query the list or hit me off list for any advice or
encouragement. You are in for a great many hours of fun while you
build. Enjoy!
Bill, LM builder, in Ohio.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "robert181605" <fuzzwurzle@...> wrote:
>
> Hello from Scotland! This is my first post to the group, greetings!
>
> I am planning to build a Long Micro, for many reasons and wondered if
> any members would be able to share information and the odd email if I
> have problems. I have bought plans from Common Sense Boats before
> reading Philip Bolger's comments, anywayyy......hope they come up to
> scratch.
>
> Good advice would be apreciated. I built na elegant punt last year
> and it has given much fun despite initial mockery people now can't ork
> out why it goes so fast, am hoping the Long Micro will also disple the
> conventional arguments here for standard yacht profiles and all the
> hassles associated.
>
> Primary interest now is materials costings and rough hours to build.
>
> Bob
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "robert181605" <fuzzwurzle@...> wrote:
Welcome to the group and congrats on your choice of designs.
Bill from Ohio is about 80% finished his LM and has posted a bill of
materials some time ago here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger6/files/Long%20Micro/
Obviously the prices will not apply to Scotland.
I strongly suggest you build a model first, using the CSD plans but
also strongly suggest to get a good set of plans from Bolger if you
like what you see. This will constiture about 5% of the total cost
of the build - or probably even less and you will never regret it. I
am sure you will get their latest updates and suggestions for the
plans which will likely save you many hours of work as well. Also
you have an open door for help.
The reason is that Bolger and his wife keep current of all the
newest techniques and materials that will aid you in the buiding
process. You may not actually incorporate them, but they are
worthwhile to know about.
Good luck and keep us updated!
Nels
>greetings!
> Hello from Scotland! This is my first post to the group,
>if
> I am planning to build a Long Micro, for many reasons and wondered
> any members would be able to share information and the odd emailif I
> have problems. I have bought plans from Common Sense Boats beforeto
> reading Philip Bolger's comments, anywayyy......hope they come up
> scratch.ork
>
> Good advice would be apreciated. I built na elegant punt last year
> and it has given much fun despite initial mockery people now can't
> out why it goes so fast, am hoping the Long Micro will also displethe
> conventional arguments here for standard yacht profiles and all thebuild.
> hassles associated.
>
> Primary interest now is materials costings and rough hours to
>HI Bob,
> Bob
>
Welcome to the group and congrats on your choice of designs.
Bill from Ohio is about 80% finished his LM and has posted a bill of
materials some time ago here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger6/files/Long%20Micro/
Obviously the prices will not apply to Scotland.
I strongly suggest you build a model first, using the CSD plans but
also strongly suggest to get a good set of plans from Bolger if you
like what you see. This will constiture about 5% of the total cost
of the build - or probably even less and you will never regret it. I
am sure you will get their latest updates and suggestions for the
plans which will likely save you many hours of work as well. Also
you have an open door for help.
The reason is that Bolger and his wife keep current of all the
newest techniques and materials that will aid you in the buiding
process. You may not actually incorporate them, but they are
worthwhile to know about.
Good luck and keep us updated!
Nels
Hello from Scotland! This is my first post to the group, greetings!
I am planning to build a Long Micro, for many reasons and wondered if
any members would be able to share information and the odd email if I
have problems. I have bought plans from Common Sense Boats before
reading Philip Bolger's comments, anywayyy......hope they come up to
scratch.
Good advice would be apreciated. I built na elegant punt last year
and it has given much fun despite initial mockery people now can't ork
out why it goes so fast, am hoping the Long Micro will also disple the
conventional arguments here for standard yacht profiles and all the
hassles associated.
Primary interest now is materials costings and rough hours to build.
Bob
I am planning to build a Long Micro, for many reasons and wondered if
any members would be able to share information and the odd email if I
have problems. I have bought plans from Common Sense Boats before
reading Philip Bolger's comments, anywayyy......hope they come up to
scratch.
Good advice would be apreciated. I built na elegant punt last year
and it has given much fun despite initial mockery people now can't ork
out why it goes so fast, am hoping the Long Micro will also disple the
conventional arguments here for standard yacht profiles and all the
hassles associated.
Primary interest now is materials costings and rough hours to build.
Bob
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Schmidt <largethomassails@...>
wrote:
nicer to sail on it!
It is great you are still interested in Micro. I saw Bremerhaven as
the home port written on the stern of the boat beside the LM in one
photo. Was thinking I might get there to see it as it is a common
ferry destination from Scandinavia.
All the best, Nels
wrote:
>still got
> Hi Nels,
>
> No, the LM is located somewhere in Spain, and Leo Foltz has been
> visiting Emilio, its builder some time ago. I guess that he's
> contact with Emilio, so it should be possible to get a write-up.I'll
> contact him.By the
>
> Unfortunately my Micro project hasn't gotten off the ground yet.
> way, why do you think it's in Bremerhaven?Would be nice to see photos of the finished boat mostly and even
>
> Cheers
> Thomas
nicer to sail on it!
It is great you are still interested in Micro. I saw Bremerhaven as
the home port written on the stern of the boat beside the LM in one
photo. Was thinking I might get there to see it as it is a common
ferry destination from Scandinavia.
All the best, Nels
> Nels schrieb:chance
> > Thanks Thomas for the link to the photos. Is the boat located at
> > Braemerhaven? (Not sure of the spelling.)
> >
> > As a Micronut I am very interested in some of the details. Any
> > of getting a write up about the various features being added?added
> >
> > Looks to me like there may be a pilot house or hard dodger to be
> > yet? Any provision for an inside steering location as well?closeups
> >
> > Looks very stoutly built. Lots of protected storage. And nice
> > of the rudder endplate. Be sure to coat it liberally with abarrier
> > coat to prevent galvanic corrosion.flogging dead horses
> >
> > Nels
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks,Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snipaway
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-
> > Yahoo! Groups LinksMail:http://mail.yahoo.de
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo!
>
Hi Nels,
No, the LM is located somewhere in Spain, and Leo Foltz has been
visiting Emilio, its builder some time ago. I guess that he's still got
contact with Emilio, so it should be possible to get a write-up. I'll
contact him.
Unfortunately my Micro project hasn't gotten off the ground yet. By the
way, why do you think it's in Bremerhaven?
Cheers
Thomas
Nels schrieb:
Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail:http://mail.yahoo.de
No, the LM is located somewhere in Spain, and Leo Foltz has been
visiting Emilio, its builder some time ago. I guess that he's still got
contact with Emilio, so it should be possible to get a write-up. I'll
contact him.
Unfortunately my Micro project hasn't gotten off the ground yet. By the
way, why do you think it's in Bremerhaven?
Cheers
Thomas
Nels schrieb:
> Thanks Thomas for the link to the photos. Is the boat located at___________________________________________________________
> Braemerhaven? (Not sure of the spelling.)
>
> As a Micronut I am very interested in some of the details. Any chance
> of getting a write up about the various features being added?
>
> Looks to me like there may be a pilot house or hard dodger to be added
> yet? Any provision for an inside steering location as well?
>
> Looks very stoutly built. Lots of protected storage. And nice closeups
> of the rudder endplate. Be sure to coat it liberally with a barrier
> coat to prevent galvanic corrosion.
>
> Nels
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail:http://mail.yahoo.de
Thanks Thomas for the link to the photos. Is the boat located at
Braemerhaven? (Not sure of the spelling.)
As a Micronut I am very interested in some of the details. Any chance
of getting a write up about the various features being added?
Looks to me like there may be a pilot house or hard dodger to be added
yet? Any provision for an inside steering location as well?
Looks very stoutly built. Lots of protected storage. And nice closeups
of the rudder endplate. Be sure to coat it liberally with a barrier
coat to prevent galvanic corrosion.
Nels
Braemerhaven? (Not sure of the spelling.)
As a Micronut I am very interested in some of the details. Any chance
of getting a write up about the various features being added?
Looks to me like there may be a pilot house or hard dodger to be added
yet? Any provision for an inside steering location as well?
Looks very stoutly built. Lots of protected storage. And nice closeups
of the rudder endplate. Be sure to coat it liberally with a barrier
coat to prevent galvanic corrosion.
Nels
I think I read that there's a salt water version on the way also. Clyde
Harry James wrote:
Harry James wrote:
>They started making them recently[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>http://www.boatmotors.com/outboard/briggs_stratton/
>
>HJ
>
>James Greene wrote:
>
>
>>On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 02:43:07 -0000, Nels wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I estimated the cost of a motor at $750,
>>>which is the cheapest 5 HP 4-stroke.
>>>(Briggs and Stratton).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>This is an outboard engine?
>>
>>James Greene
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
They started making them recently
http://www.boatmotors.com/outboard/briggs_stratton/
HJ
James Greene wrote:
http://www.boatmotors.com/outboard/briggs_stratton/
HJ
James Greene wrote:
> On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 02:43:07 -0000, Nels wrote:[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>> I estimated the cost of a motor at $750,
>> which is the cheapest 5 HP 4-stroke.
>> (Briggs and Stratton).
>>
>
>
> This is an outboard engine?
>
> James Greene
>
>
>
>
>
On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 02:43:07 -0000, Nels wrote:
James Greene
> I estimated the cost of a motor at $750,This is an outboard engine?
> which is the cheapest 5 HP 4-stroke.
> (Briggs and Stratton).
James Greene
> the discarded lead weightsA reasonable option, but don't forget that wheel weights are covered
with grime, and sometimes varnish and paint, which needs to be burnt
off. A smoky and disgusting chore.
> Where did you find the lead.You can ususally find all the lead you want for free by visiting a
tire store. Ask for the discarded lead weights they removed from rims
during the tire changing process. They'll let you have them for free
since they must pay to have them removed as hazardous waste.
Chris and Larry,
First off, I misquoted the price for lead. I found a place selling
wheel weights for .15/ lb. I simply searched the internet (there are
various pages which list scrap metal suppliers, and the types of
metals they deal in). I called two and was happy with what I heard.
I visited M&K and looked at their lead supply. They had a 55 gallon
drum full of wheel weights, another drum full of small lead scraps,
and a third pile of large lead pieces (which I had hoped might be cut
to shape- but alas nothing was that promising). Very nice people.
Chris, M&K is in the NW corner of Ohio, so it's close to Illinois
(well, northern Illinois that is).
Here are the quotes, addresses, and phone numbers for the two places I
contacted:
M & K Metal Processors, Inc.
P.O. Box 65
Delta, Ohio 43515-0065
Fulton
Phone: (419) 822-5188
Fax: (419) 822-5190
.20/lb for lead, .15/lb for wheel weights.
550 lbs = no problem.
Variety Recycling
130 Crystal Avenue
Findlay, Ohio 45840
County: Hancock
Phone: (419) 422-4441
.20/lb for lead.
Hope this helps. Leave some lead for me.
Bill in Ohio
First off, I misquoted the price for lead. I found a place selling
wheel weights for .15/ lb. I simply searched the internet (there are
various pages which list scrap metal suppliers, and the types of
metals they deal in). I called two and was happy with what I heard.
I visited M&K and looked at their lead supply. They had a 55 gallon
drum full of wheel weights, another drum full of small lead scraps,
and a third pile of large lead pieces (which I had hoped might be cut
to shape- but alas nothing was that promising). Very nice people.
Chris, M&K is in the NW corner of Ohio, so it's close to Illinois
(well, northern Illinois that is).
Here are the quotes, addresses, and phone numbers for the two places I
contacted:
M & K Metal Processors, Inc.
P.O. Box 65
Delta, Ohio 43515-0065
Fulton
Phone: (419) 822-5188
Fax: (419) 822-5190
.20/lb for lead, .15/lb for wheel weights.
550 lbs = no problem.
Variety Recycling
130 Crystal Avenue
Findlay, Ohio 45840
County: Hancock
Phone: (419) 422-4441
.20/lb for lead.
Hope this helps. Leave some lead for me.
Bill in Ohio
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "chrisbfeller" <chrisbfeller@...> wrote:
>
> Bill,
> I am qurious where you found the lead. That price seems very
> good to me. I am in Illinois and would make the trip to Ohio to get
> that price.
>
> Chris Feller
Bill,
I am qurious where you found the lead. That price seems very
good to me. I am in Illinois and would make the trip to Ohio to get
that price.
Chris Feller
I am qurious where you found the lead. That price seems very
good to me. I am in Illinois and would make the trip to Ohio to get
that price.
Chris Feller
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, William King <kingw@...> wrote:
>
> Nels,
> I did not include the cost of the plans, nor the lead. I have found
lead
> out here for $.25/lb (thus about $133 total).
> I have not priced out safety equipment, nor cushions, etc. I have
had various
> thoughts about a dingy, none of which have been especially
satisfying. Maybe
> lash all my empty epoxy containers together and float ashore.
>
> I was planning on borrowing a flat equipment trailer, hauling my LM
to a marina
> and having it slung into Lake Erie. I'll keep it in the water
during the
> season, and
> thus avoid buying a trailer for now.
>
> I will keep you posted on my progress, since building is the fun part.
>
> Bill, in Ohio
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> >I have added that list to the Long Micro Folder at Bolger6
> >
> >I estimated the cost of a motor at $750, which is the cheapest 5 HP
> >4-stroke. (Briggs and Stratton). The sails from Duckworks at
> >$1300.00 and a trailer at $1500.0 (Single axle without brakes.)
> >
> >So that brings the total to $6650.00 so far. Did you include the
> >cost of the plans and the lead keel?
> >
> >Also you will need a radio, a GPS, compass, flares and other safety
> >gear plus finishing off the galley, bunk cushions, and porta potti.
> >Dingy?
> >
> >So I am thinking it will still come in under 10 grand altogether,
> >but maybe not a lot under. 10 K was my ball-park figure. More if one
> >goes for the Navigator version.
> >
> >(I can see Bruce building one for maybe 2 grand at most;-)
> >
> >Nels
>
Where did you find the lead. That is my greatest concern in building
a keel boat is coming up with the lead.
Larry
a keel boat is coming up with the lead.
Larry
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, William King <kingw@...> wrote:
>
> Nels,
> I did not include the cost of the plans, nor the lead. I have found
lead
> out here for $.25/lb (thus about $133 total).
> I have not priced out safety equipment, nor cushions, etc. I have
had various
> thoughts about a dingy, none of which have been especially
satisfying. Maybe
> lash all my empty epoxy containers together and float ashore.
>
> I was planning on borrowing a flat equipment trailer, hauling my LM
to a marina
> and having it slung into Lake Erie. I'll keep it in the water
during the
> season, and
> thus avoid buying a trailer for now.
>
> I will keep you posted on my progress, since building is the fun part.
>
> Bill, in Ohio
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> >I have added that list to the Long Micro Folder at Bolger6
> >
> >I estimated the cost of a motor at $750, which is the cheapest 5 HP
> >4-stroke. (Briggs and Stratton). The sails from Duckworks at
> >$1300.00 and a trailer at $1500.0 (Single axle without brakes.)
> >
> >So that brings the total to $6650.00 so far. Did you include the
> >cost of the plans and the lead keel?
> >
> >Also you will need a radio, a GPS, compass, flares and other safety
> >gear plus finishing off the galley, bunk cushions, and porta potti.
> >Dingy?
> >
> >So I am thinking it will still come in under 10 grand altogether,
> >but maybe not a lot under. 10 K was my ball-park figure. More if one
> >goes for the Navigator version.
> >
> >(I can see Bruce building one for maybe 2 grand at most;-)
> >
> >Nels
>
Nels,
I did not include the cost of the plans, nor the lead. I have found lead
out here for $.25/lb (thus about $133 total).
I have not priced out safety equipment, nor cushions, etc. I have had various
thoughts about a dingy, none of which have been especially satisfying. Maybe
lash all my empty epoxy containers together and float ashore.
I was planning on borrowing a flat equipment trailer, hauling my LM to a marina
and having it slung into Lake Erie. I'll keep it in the water during the
season, and
thus avoid buying a trailer for now.
I will keep you posted on my progress, since building is the fun part.
Bill, in Ohio
Hi Bill,
I did not include the cost of the plans, nor the lead. I have found lead
out here for $.25/lb (thus about $133 total).
I have not priced out safety equipment, nor cushions, etc. I have had various
thoughts about a dingy, none of which have been especially satisfying. Maybe
lash all my empty epoxy containers together and float ashore.
I was planning on borrowing a flat equipment trailer, hauling my LM to a marina
and having it slung into Lake Erie. I'll keep it in the water during the
season, and
thus avoid buying a trailer for now.
I will keep you posted on my progress, since building is the fun part.
Bill, in Ohio
Hi Bill,
>I have added that list to the Long Micro Folder at Bolger6
>
>I estimated the cost of a motor at $750, which is the cheapest 5 HP
>4-stroke. (Briggs and Stratton). The sails from Duckworks at
>$1300.00 and a trailer at $1500.0 (Single axle without brakes.)
>
>So that brings the total to $6650.00 so far. Did you include the
>cost of the plans and the lead keel?
>
>Also you will need a radio, a GPS, compass, flares and other safety
>gear plus finishing off the galley, bunk cushions, and porta potti.
>Dingy?
>
>So I am thinking it will still come in under 10 grand altogether,
>but maybe not a lot under. 10 K was my ball-park figure. More if one
>goes for the Navigator version.
>
>(I can see Bruce building one for maybe 2 grand at most;-)
>
>Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill" <kingw@b...> wrote:
I have added that list to the Long Micro Folder at Bolger6
I estimated the cost of a motor at $750, which is the cheapest 5 HP
4-stroke. (Briggs and Stratton). The sails from Duckworks at
$1300.00 and a trailer at $1500.0 (Single axle without brakes.)
So that brings the total to $6650.00 so far. Did you include the
cost of the plans and the lead keel?
Also you will need a radio, a GPS, compass, flares and other safety
gear plus finishing off the galley, bunk cushions, and porta potti.
Dingy?
So I am thinking it will still come in under 10 grand altogether,
but maybe not a lot under. 10 K was my ball-park figure. More if one
goes for the Navigator version.
(I can see Bruce building one for maybe 2 grand at most;-)
Nels
>used to
> Nels,
> Per your request, here is a rough list of the materials I have
> date, and the costs, for my LM. I've included a list of the thingsI
> still need to purchase. I have also included a list of tools Ifound
> most helpful. I did most of my sanding by hand, although a sandingsole.
> disk on my drill came in handy. Other readers should keep in mind
> that I opted for 1/2 inch sides and decking, and I built a
> self-bailing cockpit with substantial framing under the cockpit
> As I look at the total materails, it's obvious that it all addsup.
>Hi Bill,
> -Bill, in Ohio
I have added that list to the Long Micro Folder at Bolger6
I estimated the cost of a motor at $750, which is the cheapest 5 HP
4-stroke. (Briggs and Stratton). The sails from Duckworks at
$1300.00 and a trailer at $1500.0 (Single axle without brakes.)
So that brings the total to $6650.00 so far. Did you include the
cost of the plans and the lead keel?
Also you will need a radio, a GPS, compass, flares and other safety
gear plus finishing off the galley, bunk cushions, and porta potti.
Dingy?
So I am thinking it will still come in under 10 grand altogether,
but maybe not a lot under. 10 K was my ball-park figure. More if one
goes for the Navigator version.
(I can see Bruce building one for maybe 2 grand at most;-)
Nels
Wow.
Somehow I realize that Phil Bolger's thoughts of modern boat design
remind me of the fairy tale, _The Emperor's New Clothes_
Somehow I realize that Phil Bolger's thoughts of modern boat design
remind me of the fairy tale, _The Emperor's New Clothes_
Nels,
Per your request, here is a rough list of the materials I have used to
date, and the costs, for my LM. I've included a list of the things I
still need to purchase. I have also included a list of tools I found
most helpful. I did most of my sanding by hand, although a sanding
disk on my drill came in handy. Other readers should keep in mind
that I opted for 1/2 inch sides and decking, and I built a
self-bailing cockpit with substantial framing under the cockpit sole.
As I look at the total materails, it's obvious that it all adds up.
-Bill, in Ohio
Long Micro-
Construction materials used (to date- Jan. 31, 2006)
17 gallons of epoxy (I expect to use a total of 20.5 gallons) (at
approx. $50/ gallon)
6 sheets of 4 foot x 10 foot .5 inch marine ply ($75 x 6)
15 sheets of 4 foot x 8 foot 3/8 inch marine ply ($48 x 15)
25 yds of 6 oz., 50 inch fiberglass cloth ($162)
50 yds of 9 oz. 3 inch wide fiberglass tape ($26)
17 yds of 9 oz. 2 inch wide fiberglass tape ($16) (not enough- 25 or
30 yds would have been better).
6 qts wood flour ($35)
1 qt no skid grit ($18)
1 gal top paint ($98)
1 qt top paint ($37)
1 gal primer ($62)
2 qt primer ($52)
2 gal bottom paint ($190)
misc hardware (silicone bronze bolts, screws, stainless hinges,
inspection port) ($170)
a couple yds of old, 4 oz. fiberglass cloth (for flooding wells and
cockpit sole)
Many 2x4's, 2x6's, and pine boards (chine logs, rub rails, framing,
mast and spars)
misc plate steel for the all-metal rudder
Things I have not purchased yet:
wiring, lights, battery, switch panel
Sails. Rigging. Cleats (etc.)
Ground tackle
Consumables
latex gloves (approx 300 so far)
chip brushes
yogurt cups (I love yogurt!)
sand paper (lots of sandpaper)
sheetrock screws
tongue depressors
small rollers and roller pans
tape
Tools
Skil saw (plywood blade and rip blade)
drill/power screw driver
table saw
handheld jig saw
router (not necessary, but very handy)
chisles, hand saws, hammer
epoxy plunger pump set
Per your request, here is a rough list of the materials I have used to
date, and the costs, for my LM. I've included a list of the things I
still need to purchase. I have also included a list of tools I found
most helpful. I did most of my sanding by hand, although a sanding
disk on my drill came in handy. Other readers should keep in mind
that I opted for 1/2 inch sides and decking, and I built a
self-bailing cockpit with substantial framing under the cockpit sole.
As I look at the total materails, it's obvious that it all adds up.
-Bill, in Ohio
Long Micro-
Construction materials used (to date- Jan. 31, 2006)
17 gallons of epoxy (I expect to use a total of 20.5 gallons) (at
approx. $50/ gallon)
6 sheets of 4 foot x 10 foot .5 inch marine ply ($75 x 6)
15 sheets of 4 foot x 8 foot 3/8 inch marine ply ($48 x 15)
25 yds of 6 oz., 50 inch fiberglass cloth ($162)
50 yds of 9 oz. 3 inch wide fiberglass tape ($26)
17 yds of 9 oz. 2 inch wide fiberglass tape ($16) (not enough- 25 or
30 yds would have been better).
6 qts wood flour ($35)
1 qt no skid grit ($18)
1 gal top paint ($98)
1 qt top paint ($37)
1 gal primer ($62)
2 qt primer ($52)
2 gal bottom paint ($190)
misc hardware (silicone bronze bolts, screws, stainless hinges,
inspection port) ($170)
a couple yds of old, 4 oz. fiberglass cloth (for flooding wells and
cockpit sole)
Many 2x4's, 2x6's, and pine boards (chine logs, rub rails, framing,
mast and spars)
misc plate steel for the all-metal rudder
Things I have not purchased yet:
wiring, lights, battery, switch panel
Sails. Rigging. Cleats (etc.)
Ground tackle
Consumables
latex gloves (approx 300 so far)
chip brushes
yogurt cups (I love yogurt!)
sand paper (lots of sandpaper)
sheetrock screws
tongue depressors
small rollers and roller pans
tape
Tools
Skil saw (plywood blade and rip blade)
drill/power screw driver
table saw
handheld jig saw
router (not necessary, but very handy)
chisles, hand saws, hammer
epoxy plunger pump set
Thirty Years ago I had recently moved to Nome AK and while perusing a
copy of National Fisherman I saw an add and maybe a review for "The
Folding Schooner". It must have been an intriguing ad because I found a
stamp and envelope put my check in and sent it off, an unusual effort
for me then as well as now. I spent some happy evenings that winter when
I wasn't aging my body in the wild life downtown. The old house I was
staying had a stand up fuel oil stove (and honey bucket) and I would lay
in my bunk listening to the burble of the stove studying some really
neat designs. I just picked up my old copy and after reading the preface
for the first time in decades, I thought I would share it with you.
The introduction to all of PCB's books are well worth reading,
insightful and filled with his self depreciating humor.
(Folding Schooner) PREFACE
I have a true vocation; it's been upwards of thirty years since there's
been a day in which it hasn't pleased me to think about boat design,
many hours most days. So far, there's no sign of boredom setting in,
which I take to be the test of the vocation. I've reached working
hypotheses different from the conventional wisdom. This book was
produced out of the usual motives of profit and vanity, and" its
rationalization is mainly entertainment, but I wouldn't mind if it was
regarded as an anti-textbook tending to subvert usual design doctrine in
two respects.
The first, minor subversion, has to do with "planing," of which I say
briefly and dogmatically that if a boat is light and powerful enough to
plane well, she can't be prevented from planing; all the designer needs
to worry about is her attitude and stability. Design features meant to
generate exexceptional lift always seem to degrade the boat.
The second doctrine I disagree with is the double assumption that a sail
is hard, or easy, to handle in direct proportion to its area, and that
drive per square foot is a fair measure of efficiency. Every living boat
sailor has been indoctrinated in those ideas; the result is a standard
rig for sailboats which is the most expensive and most laborious and
dangerous to handle, for its area) of any in history. Both assumptions
are plainly false and collapse the instant they're challenged, but the
consequences of their having gone unchallenged for seventy years will
be with us for a longtime. Already there's been about a seventy-year gap
in the development of sails that are powerful for their cost, handling
effort, and effect on the stability of the hull.
We can go back to 1890 and start over, or make cautious modifications of
conventional rigs such as lengthened booms, or try to design from first
principles. Since most people are afflicted with strange superstitions
about what the first principles are, this last generally ends in fiasco.
I've .been trying to combine the three methods in some reasonable
balance of prudence and enterprise. I can recommend the results of an
oath I took, now a good many years ago, with my right hand raised and my
left on a copy of Claud Worth's Yacht Cruising) never to read a rating rule.
Philip C. Bolger Gloucester, Massachusetts
copy of National Fisherman I saw an add and maybe a review for "The
Folding Schooner". It must have been an intriguing ad because I found a
stamp and envelope put my check in and sent it off, an unusual effort
for me then as well as now. I spent some happy evenings that winter when
I wasn't aging my body in the wild life downtown. The old house I was
staying had a stand up fuel oil stove (and honey bucket) and I would lay
in my bunk listening to the burble of the stove studying some really
neat designs. I just picked up my old copy and after reading the preface
for the first time in decades, I thought I would share it with you.
The introduction to all of PCB's books are well worth reading,
insightful and filled with his self depreciating humor.
(Folding Schooner) PREFACE
I have a true vocation; it's been upwards of thirty years since there's
been a day in which it hasn't pleased me to think about boat design,
many hours most days. So far, there's no sign of boredom setting in,
which I take to be the test of the vocation. I've reached working
hypotheses different from the conventional wisdom. This book was
produced out of the usual motives of profit and vanity, and" its
rationalization is mainly entertainment, but I wouldn't mind if it was
regarded as an anti-textbook tending to subvert usual design doctrine in
two respects.
The first, minor subversion, has to do with "planing," of which I say
briefly and dogmatically that if a boat is light and powerful enough to
plane well, she can't be prevented from planing; all the designer needs
to worry about is her attitude and stability. Design features meant to
generate exexceptional lift always seem to degrade the boat.
The second doctrine I disagree with is the double assumption that a sail
is hard, or easy, to handle in direct proportion to its area, and that
drive per square foot is a fair measure of efficiency. Every living boat
sailor has been indoctrinated in those ideas; the result is a standard
rig for sailboats which is the most expensive and most laborious and
dangerous to handle, for its area) of any in history. Both assumptions
are plainly false and collapse the instant they're challenged, but the
consequences of their having gone unchallenged for seventy years will
be with us for a longtime. Already there's been about a seventy-year gap
in the development of sails that are powerful for their cost, handling
effort, and effect on the stability of the hull.
We can go back to 1890 and start over, or make cautious modifications of
conventional rigs such as lengthened booms, or try to design from first
principles. Since most people are afflicted with strange superstitions
about what the first principles are, this last generally ends in fiasco.
I've .been trying to combine the three methods in some reasonable
balance of prudence and enterprise. I can recommend the results of an
oath I took, now a good many years ago, with my right hand raised and my
left on a copy of Claud Worth's Yacht Cruising) never to read a rating rule.
Philip C. Bolger Gloucester, Massachusetts
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
sail. Not a lot of difference considering the amount of work one saves
over getting a sewing machine and other tools to make your own.
Also this quote includes shipping.
Nels
>and
> I created a folder at Bolger6 entitled "Long Micro materials list"
> added a file with the price quote I got from Sailrite. All USDI added a very rough cost estimate from Duckworks for a completed
sail. Not a lot of difference considering the amount of work one saves
over getting a sewing machine and other tools to make your own.
Also this quote includes shipping.
Nels
I created a folder at Bolger6 entitled "Long Micro materials list" and
added a file with the price quote I got from Sailrite. All USD
Micro Main $425
Mizzen $200
Long Micro Main $825
Mizzen $225
These are kits and still have to be put together. I could try to get a
quote from Duckworks for completed sails.
Nels
added a file with the price quote I got from Sailrite. All USD
Micro Main $425
Mizzen $200
Long Micro Main $825
Mizzen $225
These are kits and still have to be put together. I could try to get a
quote from Duckworks for completed sails.
Nels
I would just like to mention that many or rather most work boats use a
great amount of steel and just hot dip galvanize it. This method is
relatively cheap and very effective against corrosion even in a salt
water environment. The trick is that galvanizers are generally in large
cities and are use to dealing with fabricators not individuals. They
have certain rules about fabrication that are absolute based on safety
requirements. They do not want you delivering a potential bomb that a
sealed container can become. The item will be dipped in a cleaning
solution and then dipped into molten metal which is of course very hot.
The item will be stressed relieved somewhat and will warp a little.
There are also maximum dimensions that can not be exceeded.
These galvanizers have trucks going to other smaller cities on a regular
even daily basis and the turnaround can be just a few days. My
suggestion is to find a small fabricator of handrails stairs or other
architectural steel fabricator and ask him if he would throw your stuff
in to his and how much he would charge. My understanding is that they
charge by the pound. The actual charge on a small item will be based on
just keeping up and keeping track and remembering and taking some
responsibility for your "thing".
John "C"
great amount of steel and just hot dip galvanize it. This method is
relatively cheap and very effective against corrosion even in a salt
water environment. The trick is that galvanizers are generally in large
cities and are use to dealing with fabricators not individuals. They
have certain rules about fabrication that are absolute based on safety
requirements. They do not want you delivering a potential bomb that a
sealed container can become. The item will be dipped in a cleaning
solution and then dipped into molten metal which is of course very hot.
The item will be stressed relieved somewhat and will warp a little.
There are also maximum dimensions that can not be exceeded.
These galvanizers have trucks going to other smaller cities on a regular
even daily basis and the turnaround can be just a few days. My
suggestion is to find a small fabricator of handrails stairs or other
architectural steel fabricator and ask him if he would throw your stuff
in to his and how much he would charge. My understanding is that they
charge by the pound. The actual charge on a small item will be based on
just keeping up and keeping track and remembering and taking some
responsibility for your "thing".
John "C"
Nels,
No problemo on the update. I find that since I get this list via
digest/bulk email,
the easy answers are already answered by the time I get to read the question.
This leaves me lurking in a lurky manner most of the time. I have enjoyed
your posts
over the years, as you are very thoughtful about the LM. And I agree with
all your comments
regarding the ingeniousness of the design (esp. the keel). It is a
testament that someone
left their keel off, and used lee-boards, and the boat still appeared to be
quite rugged.
I initially considered having an uber-rudder welded out of stainless steel
(shaft
and blade). Then I priced the stainless. Ouch. I had a stick of 2 inch
exhaust
pipe, a huge sheet of steel, and my wire welder so I made my own. The entire
assembly is rather heavy, but I haven't been much concerned about the
overall weight of the boat.
In fact, reading about Dan's experiences tacking his LM (and adding extra
weight
inside the cabin) made me quite comfortable that I have 1/2 inch sides (and
deck),
and other weight such as the self-bailing cockpit. I'll let you know how
it all works
out, once she hits the water.
My plan is for a LONG shaft outboard (what else would one put on their LONG
micro?).
Something around 6 hp.
I have been considering some type of article when I'm done. Initially I
was enamored with
a webpage, but I've found the web to be a bit transitory for my
tastes. People seem to create
a page to document their build-process, but then things go stagnant (while
they sail their
new boat, drink rum punch, and frolic w/ the lassies), and eventually the
page disappears.
Plus, creating a decent looking webpage is a pain in the butt and I just
don't have the time
for it. I would like to create something more permanent- something people
can print, hold in
their hands, and sit with. I envision a dog-eared copy of my experiences
providing inspiration to
future LM builders, resting on bed-side tables and toilet tanks all over
the English speaking world.
Oh. In case some people haven't been following my pathetic attempts to keep
the list up
to date on my progress, I posted five old pictures at:
http://personal.bgsu.edu/~kingw/Long_Micro/
No thumbnails, but three of the pictures show the progression of my
self-bailing cockpit sole,
and the other two pictures show the boat-flipping party I had in the spring
of 2005. I'll get
more recent photos posted soon. I promise.
One thing that I have a great many questions about, is how people rig their
micros, or LMs.
Dan G. used a cam cleats for his main sheet, but I wasn't sure where he
mounted it.
What about blocks? Cleats? Fairleads? Anyone have advice or
pictures? I'm getting
to the point where I need to seriously consider these things.
Bill, in Ohio
No problemo on the update. I find that since I get this list via
digest/bulk email,
the easy answers are already answered by the time I get to read the question.
This leaves me lurking in a lurky manner most of the time. I have enjoyed
your posts
over the years, as you are very thoughtful about the LM. And I agree with
all your comments
regarding the ingeniousness of the design (esp. the keel). It is a
testament that someone
left their keel off, and used lee-boards, and the boat still appeared to be
quite rugged.
I initially considered having an uber-rudder welded out of stainless steel
(shaft
and blade). Then I priced the stainless. Ouch. I had a stick of 2 inch
exhaust
pipe, a huge sheet of steel, and my wire welder so I made my own. The entire
assembly is rather heavy, but I haven't been much concerned about the
overall weight of the boat.
In fact, reading about Dan's experiences tacking his LM (and adding extra
weight
inside the cabin) made me quite comfortable that I have 1/2 inch sides (and
deck),
and other weight such as the self-bailing cockpit. I'll let you know how
it all works
out, once she hits the water.
My plan is for a LONG shaft outboard (what else would one put on their LONG
micro?).
Something around 6 hp.
I have been considering some type of article when I'm done. Initially I
was enamored with
a webpage, but I've found the web to be a bit transitory for my
tastes. People seem to create
a page to document their build-process, but then things go stagnant (while
they sail their
new boat, drink rum punch, and frolic w/ the lassies), and eventually the
page disappears.
Plus, creating a decent looking webpage is a pain in the butt and I just
don't have the time
for it. I would like to create something more permanent- something people
can print, hold in
their hands, and sit with. I envision a dog-eared copy of my experiences
providing inspiration to
future LM builders, resting on bed-side tables and toilet tanks all over
the English speaking world.
Oh. In case some people haven't been following my pathetic attempts to keep
the list up
to date on my progress, I posted five old pictures at:
http://personal.bgsu.edu/~kingw/Long_Micro/
No thumbnails, but three of the pictures show the progression of my
self-bailing cockpit sole,
and the other two pictures show the boat-flipping party I had in the spring
of 2005. I'll get
more recent photos posted soon. I promise.
One thing that I have a great many questions about, is how people rig their
micros, or LMs.
Dan G. used a cam cleats for his main sheet, but I wasn't sure where he
mounted it.
What about blocks? Cleats? Fairleads? Anyone have advice or
pictures? I'm getting
to the point where I need to seriously consider these things.
Bill, in Ohio
>Thanks for the update Bill. Uff da! As the Norwegians say - I am
>sure that all our hearts go out to you having to make it through the
>winter working in the Caribbean instead of playing with epoxy in the
>cold:-)
>
>Great that you got some information from Dan and incorporated it.
>Your cockpit design will be ideal I would think. You might also want
>to consider a long-shaft motor if you get the opportunity from what
>I heard.
>
>I was sure sorry when Andrew Pryers website disappeared as it was an
>excellent source of information.
>
>Other comments:
>
>Peter Lenihan never installed any foam in Lestat. I intend to line
>the cabin with foam and use it as insulation too. Also I would only
>glass up to the top of the waterline like he did. (Also the deck)
>Otherwise I would glass the topsides prior to installing them to the
>bottom.
>
> I have G2S crezon MDO which is 5/8" and was the best price
>available when I got it. I don't think the added weight should be a
>big factor. Dan added an extra 80 pounds of lead in a box under the
>porta pottie slide-out as he sailed solo mostly and this made it
>even more stable.
>
>Peter built his rudder post and fittings from stainless steel and it
>is very strong. As is the standard keel design although I plan to
>try Peter's method. You have to add an inner keelson if you do that,
>so it has to be decided right at the onset.
>
>It certainly is quite an education to actually understand how the
>Micro series are complete systems alright. Every part of the design
>serves it's purpose and supports the other parts as well. For
>example, the keel is a structural girder that supports the whole
>boat and also protects the rudder which in turn protects the prop
>from grounding. Yet the raised forefoot allows one to beach the boat
>at most landings. The central part of the cabin is watertight and
>never has to collect grunge or water and yet is well ventilated.
>
> When the boat is standing level on a trailer, all the rainwater
>naturally drains off immediately, even if there is no protective
>cover over it. There is nowhere that water collect on the surface.
>
>Like you, I am quite obessed with the design.
>
>Perhaps you might consider a Duckworks article at some point so your
>building experience can become part of the permanent archives there,
>and available for everyone.
>
>Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson" <> > but that a >
My concern (based on no practical experience) would be that, in
boats. I was on a 25,000 ton liner that was doing that! Man - what a
vibration that makes! We caught the edge of a hurricane and the ship
hove too for about 12- 18 hours. But the bar stayed open:-)
I measured from the plans and there is about 15 inches from the top
of the transom to the water and three feet exactly to the bottom of
the keel. So you have your choice of 20, 25 or 30" leg lengths, and
the keel will still protect the prop.
There is probably room for a small diesel in the hold as well. I
think the hull is a good shape for one. The drive shaft would not
have to be very long and not too steep an angle, due to amount of
rocker. That would be really cool.
Maybe give PCB&F a call or fax them with your concerns. They even
specify the T9.9 for the their Col. Hasler circumnavigator. But like
you say, once you get far enough from shore it is no longer a
problem. But they seem to really like the high thrust Yamahas for
their ability to move a displacement hull.
There are other options to staying off a lee shore as well, including
getting ashore before it gets bad or heaving too with a sea anchor or
even the anchor deployed.
So you have two choices when the weather starts to threaten - head to
shore or head further offshore. Both work best with a good motor.
There is also that little diesel motorsailer that Bruce showed a
cartoon of awhile ago. It had a box keel with the motor in it and a
very short rig.
Cheers, Nels
My concern (based on no practical experience) would be that, in
> extreme conditions, an outboard perched on a transom some distancewith
> aft of the end of the waterline might spend nearly half its time
> the propellor out of the water.Yes of course - In extreme conditions that will happen with most
boats. I was on a 25,000 ton liner that was doing that! Man - what a
vibration that makes! We caught the edge of a hurricane and the ship
hove too for about 12- 18 hours. But the bar stayed open:-)
I measured from the plans and there is about 15 inches from the top
of the transom to the water and three feet exactly to the bottom of
the keel. So you have your choice of 20, 25 or 30" leg lengths, and
the keel will still protect the prop.
There is probably room for a small diesel in the hold as well. I
think the hull is a good shape for one. The drive shaft would not
have to be very long and not too steep an angle, due to amount of
rocker. That would be really cool.
Maybe give PCB&F a call or fax them with your concerns. They even
specify the T9.9 for the their Col. Hasler circumnavigator. But like
you say, once you get far enough from shore it is no longer a
problem. But they seem to really like the high thrust Yamahas for
their ability to move a displacement hull.
There are other options to staying off a lee shore as well, including
getting ashore before it gets bad or heaving too with a sea anchor or
even the anchor deployed.
So you have two choices when the weather starts to threaten - head to
shore or head further offshore. Both work best with a good motor.
There is also that little diesel motorsailer that Bruce showed a
cartoon of awhile ago. It had a box keel with the motor in it and a
very short rig.
Cheers, Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
In some ways, completely open water is safer, because there is no
nearby lee shore. But you have to get out there first and eventually
return to harbour.
extreme conditions, an outboard perched on a transom some distance
aft of the end of the waterline might spend nearly half its time with
the propellor out of the water.
No argument from me on that score.
> >> Many open-water cruising yachts are not able to make headway tobefore engines.
> > windward against a gale. Nor were sailing ships in the days
> >and does not use a motor.
> > Howard
>
> From what I understand, Roger Keyes regularly cruises his MICRO
> offshore from Australia - on some fairly long open water passages
In some ways, completely open water is safer, because there is no
nearby lee shore. But you have to get out there first and eventually
return to harbour.
> but that a LONG MICRO NAVIGATOR would be fine, with its 25%.. making its top speed about 12% greater, I suppose.
> longer waterline
> and ability to carry a bigger motor, rendering it more ableMy concern (based on no practical experience) would be that, in
> to fend off a lee shore.
extreme conditions, an outboard perched on a transom some distance
aft of the end of the waterline might spend nearly half its time with
the propellor out of the water.
> My personal opinion is that is the most capable boat for the buckbut I am admittedly very biased:-)
No argument from me on that score.
>Howard
> Cheers, Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson"
<stephensonhw@a...> wrote:
offshore from Australia - on some fairly long open water passages and
does not use a motor. He put a plywood dog house on it and installed
a second snotter block so the boom would clear the house on a tack.
Otherwise the rig is standard I believe.
I recall Jason Stancil posting about a phone conversation he had with
Susanne Altenburger and she felt the MICRO was too slow for offshore
but that a LONG MICRO NAVIGATOR would be fine, with it's 25% longer
waterline and ability to carry a bigger motor, rendering it more able
to fend off a lee shore.
She prescribes a T9.9 Yamaha so as to have adequate horsepower as
well as a good-sized alternator. I have had several comments that the
T9.9 would be just too big and powerful and you could not run it
efficiently. I think she was referring to one fully loaded with a lot
of supplies and water - which it is capable of accepting.
My personal opinion is that is the most capable boat for the buck but
I am admittedly very biased:-)
Cheers, Nels
<stephensonhw@a...> wrote:
>> Many open-water cruising yachts are not able to make headway toFrom what I understand, Roger Keyes regularly cruises his MICRO
> windward against a gale. Nor were sailing ships in the days before
> engines.
>
> Howard
offshore from Australia - on some fairly long open water passages and
does not use a motor. He put a plywood dog house on it and installed
a second snotter block so the boom would clear the house on a tack.
Otherwise the rig is standard I believe.
I recall Jason Stancil posting about a phone conversation he had with
Susanne Altenburger and she felt the MICRO was too slow for offshore
but that a LONG MICRO NAVIGATOR would be fine, with it's 25% longer
waterline and ability to carry a bigger motor, rendering it more able
to fend off a lee shore.
She prescribes a T9.9 Yamaha so as to have adequate horsepower as
well as a good-sized alternator. I have had several comments that the
T9.9 would be just too big and powerful and you could not run it
efficiently. I think she was referring to one fully loaded with a lot
of supplies and water - which it is capable of accepting.
My personal opinion is that is the most capable boat for the buck but
I am admittedly very biased:-)
Cheers, Nels
I have no experience of open-water sailing in heavy weather, but
Bolger provides a few clues in his little story in BWAOM about a
couple sailing the Mediteranean in a Micro. They have become
confident about hopping from port to port, out of sight of land at
times, but realize that,if they'd been on the west coast of Corsica
with a westerly gale blowing, they would have piled up on the lee
shore.
Many open-water cruising yachts are not able to make headway to
windward against a gale. Nor were sailing ships in the days before
engines.
Howard
Bolger provides a few clues in his little story in BWAOM about a
couple sailing the Mediteranean in a Micro. They have become
confident about hopping from port to port, out of sight of land at
times, but realize that,if they'd been on the west coast of Corsica
with a westerly gale blowing, they would have piled up on the lee
shore.
Many open-water cruising yachts are not able to make headway to
windward against a gale. Nor were sailing ships in the days before
engines.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "brnhope" <brian@j...> wrote:
> The Long Micro looks to be eminently buildable by the amateur
> builder. Can those more experienced members advise as to its
> suitability for sailing in coastal waters, i.e. in non protected
> waters. Thanks
The Long Micro looks to be eminently buildable by the amateur
builder. Can those more experienced members advise as to its
suitability for sailing in coastal waters, i.e. in non protected
waters. Thanks
builder. Can those more experienced members advise as to its
suitability for sailing in coastal waters, i.e. in non protected
waters. Thanks
Hi all,
I hail from sunny (its currently 27 degrees C, not a cloud in sky)
Brisbane, Australia. Just about to start building my first boat,
Bolger's Long Micro.
Intend to use as a daysailer/weekender with some mates for fishing,
and as a mothership when we go kayaking.
My goal is to build an AS29 and cruise around Down Under, and then
maybe something bigger to go the US.
Anyhoo,
great group - just a question regarding the keel on Long micro (my
plans are still air freight over Easter break, I am waiting
impatiently) can you fill this area up as inboard freshwater tanks,
with a small hand pump to retrieve the water? Would be an excellent
place to store - neutral bouyancy cause the keel is flooded anyway -
for those long trips on long weekends (us Aussies have heaps of long
weekends and I hope to use the three and four day ones as long
excursions, so I need a good freshwater supply)
Ta.
Chris
I hail from sunny (its currently 27 degrees C, not a cloud in sky)
Brisbane, Australia. Just about to start building my first boat,
Bolger's Long Micro.
Intend to use as a daysailer/weekender with some mates for fishing,
and as a mothership when we go kayaking.
My goal is to build an AS29 and cruise around Down Under, and then
maybe something bigger to go the US.
Anyhoo,
great group - just a question regarding the keel on Long micro (my
plans are still air freight over Easter break, I am waiting
impatiently) can you fill this area up as inboard freshwater tanks,
with a small hand pump to retrieve the water? Would be an excellent
place to store - neutral bouyancy cause the keel is flooded anyway -
for those long trips on long weekends (us Aussies have heaps of long
weekends and I hope to use the three and four day ones as long
excursions, so I need a good freshwater supply)
Ta.
Chris