Re: [bolger] Re: Need help Getting lap ply to come together at ends
I second the opinion of previous posters that putting stringers on the
inside of the strakes will be easier, but I understand your desire to
have "big" looking laps. If I were tackling this task, here is what I
would do. Put on a strake. Glue the stringer to it. Starting at about
three and a half feet from the end of the strake where it meets either
the stem or the transom, plane the stringer down to where it is glued to
the plywood strake. Try and plane the stringer so it hits the strake
about six inches from the end. Then using a rabbet plane continue to
plane down the strake so that when you reach the end you will have
planed through about half of the plywood plank, that is 1/8 of an inch.
Next go to the plank to lap over the strake. Starting at six inches
from the end rabbet out a "fit" to the plank you have already
installed. Do this at both ends. When the plank to be fitted lands on
the ends, it should mesh with the plank in place. But be careful.
Increasing the lap outward by 3/4 of an inch will require changes in the
curvature of all the planks except the bottom one. You will probably
have to spile all of the planks in order to get them to sit
appropriately on one another. Read Hill's "Ultralight Boatbuilding" for
assistance with the project. Good Luck.
Sam Betty
pateson@...wrote:
inside of the strakes will be easier, but I understand your desire to
have "big" looking laps. If I were tackling this task, here is what I
would do. Put on a strake. Glue the stringer to it. Starting at about
three and a half feet from the end of the strake where it meets either
the stem or the transom, plane the stringer down to where it is glued to
the plywood strake. Try and plane the stringer so it hits the strake
about six inches from the end. Then using a rabbet plane continue to
plane down the strake so that when you reach the end you will have
planed through about half of the plywood plank, that is 1/8 of an inch.
Next go to the plank to lap over the strake. Starting at six inches
from the end rabbet out a "fit" to the plank you have already
installed. Do this at both ends. When the plank to be fitted lands on
the ends, it should mesh with the plank in place. But be careful.
Increasing the lap outward by 3/4 of an inch will require changes in the
curvature of all the planks except the bottom one. You will probably
have to spile all of the planks in order to get them to sit
appropriately on one another. Read Hill's "Ultralight Boatbuilding" for
assistance with the project. Good Luck.
Sam Betty
pateson@...wrote:
> Thanks for the help. It's easier to see than to describe[Click Here!]
>http://www.egroups.co.uk/files/bolger/Toad/Lap%20%20Sides%20.JPG
> but what I am attempting is to give the look of 1" thick plank
> lapstrake using 1/4 ply and the stiffener/spacers between to make the
> 1"look. I have seen it done on some Pacific City Dories and makes
> a very stiff, but light weight hull, with the advantage of having the
> 1" "Stakes" making "Spray" Rails, pluss cool look.
> Unfortunatly did not pay close enough attention to details at ends.
> A local (NW US) (I think Clipper Craft)company is using same
> technique using 1/2 MDO ply, and I belive 1" spacers to build 26'
> offshore fishing/cruising dory style cabin boats.
> They've been in business quite a while so must be doing somethin
> right.
> boat. They say that makes VERY stiff hull, and swear by MDO.
> They do build nice wooden boats with what I remember to be about
> 12" wide "Stake" (making them apear to be built of 1 1/2" lumber.
> Thanks again for the help. Maybe somebody else knows what I am
> talking about, and am deffinatly going to pay more attention to detail
>
> next time I see one.
> Pat
>
>
>
> --- In bolger@e..., "Orr, Jamie" <jorr@b...> wrote:
> > I couldn't get into the files, but it sounds like you should be
> backing up
> > the lap with your stiffener, not putting it between the strakes.
> The top of
> > the strake should land on the stiffener, and the next strake up
> should lap
> > over that one in the same way it would if no stiffeners were used.
> Take a
> > look at Tom Hill's "Ultralight boatbuilding" -- he doesn't use
> permanent
> > stiffeners, but the battens on his jigs are similar in how they are
> placed
> > in relation to the lap.
> >
> > You might also look at "New Zealand Backyard Boatbuilder" available
> through
> > WoodenBoat magazine or at
> >http://www.woodenboat.net.nz/Pages/OriginalPages/Johnpage.html
> >
> > (Note the woodenboat in the website is not related to WoodenBoat
> magazine.)
> > The author, John Welsford, uses permanent stringers (stiffeners) in
> several
> > of his designs. The book is also a catalogue of designs.
> >
> > Jamie Orr
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: pateson@c... [mailto:pateson@c...]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 3:21 AM
> > To: bolger@y...
> > Subject: [bolger] Need help Getting lap ply to come together at ends
>
> >
> >
> > Asked a while ago what was the trick to getting lap ply to come to
> > single thickness at stem and stern, especially if addding 1x3/4
> > stiffeners between plywood strakes (see drawing
> >http://www.egroups.co.uk/files/bolger/Toad/Lap%20%20Sides%20.JPG)
> >
> > Would like to build with 1/4 ply and 1x3/4 stiffener strips between
> > plywood strakes, but don't know how to make them lose thickness
> > toward ends so don't have "bumpy stem and stern"
> > Would appreciate some help. I know I would have to babbit just
> > lappped ply to get them to come out the same, but what do I do
> about
> > the stiffeners. If I can get some help, I will dump my drawing
> from
> > the files to makke more room.
> > Thanks
> > Pat
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> > - no flogging dead horses
> > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> > - stay on topic and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
> MA,
> > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
){kind=link}
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Pat:
I think I see what you are saying. Here is what I would do: Starting with
the lowest strake (garboard) when it is in place, glue your spacer to it.
Once the glue is set, taper the spacer gently to the stem, and the transom
(optional). When you have the spacer the way you want it, glue on the next
strake. I have to warn you that there will be some torture of the plywood,
but the results could be nice.
Chuck
I think I see what you are saying. Here is what I would do: Starting with
the lowest strake (garboard) when it is in place, glue your spacer to it.
Once the glue is set, taper the spacer gently to the stem, and the transom
(optional). When you have the spacer the way you want it, glue on the next
strake. I have to warn you that there will be some torture of the plywood,
but the results could be nice.
Chuck
> Thanks for the help. It's easier to see than to describe
>http://www.egroups.co.uk/files/bolger/Toad/Lap%20%20Sides%20.JPG
> but what I am attempting is to give the look of 1" thick plank
> lapstrake using 1/4 ply and the stiffener/spacers between to make the
> 1"look. I have seen it done on some Pacific City Dories and makes
> a very stiff, but light weight hull, with the advantage of having the
> 1" "Stakes" making "Spray" Rails, pluss cool look.
> Unfortunatly did not pay close enough attention to details at ends.
> A local (NW US) (I think Clipper Craft)company is using same
> technique using 1/2 MDO ply, and I belive 1" spacers to build 26'
> offshore fishing/cruising dory style cabin boats.
> They've been in business quite a while so must be doing somethin
> right.
> boat. They say that makes VERY stiff hull, and swear by MDO.
> They do build nice wooden boats with what I remember to be about
> 12" wide "Stake" (making them apear to be built of 1 1/2" lumber.
> Thanks again for the help. Maybe somebody else knows what I am
> talking about, and am deffinatly going to pay more attention to detail
> next time I see one.
> Pat
>
Thanks for the help. It's easier to see than to describe
http://www.egroups.co.uk/files/bolger/Toad/Lap%20%20Sides%20.JPG
but what I am attempting is to give the look of 1" thick plank
lapstrake using 1/4 ply and the stiffener/spacers between to make the
1"look. I have seen it done on some Pacific City Dories and makes
a very stiff, but light weight hull, with the advantage of having the
1" "Stakes" making "Spray" Rails, pluss cool look.
Unfortunatly did not pay close enough attention to details at ends.
A local (NW US) (I think Clipper Craft)company is using same
technique using 1/2 MDO ply, and I belive 1" spacers to build 26'
offshore fishing/cruising dory style cabin boats.
They've been in business quite a while so must be doing somethin
right.
boat. They say that makes VERY stiff hull, and swear by MDO.
They do build nice wooden boats with what I remember to be about
12" wide "Stake" (making them apear to be built of 1 1/2" lumber.
Thanks again for the help. Maybe somebody else knows what I am
talking about, and am deffinatly going to pay more attention to detail
next time I see one.
Pat
http://www.egroups.co.uk/files/bolger/Toad/Lap%20%20Sides%20.JPG
but what I am attempting is to give the look of 1" thick plank
lapstrake using 1/4 ply and the stiffener/spacers between to make the
1"look. I have seen it done on some Pacific City Dories and makes
a very stiff, but light weight hull, with the advantage of having the
1" "Stakes" making "Spray" Rails, pluss cool look.
Unfortunatly did not pay close enough attention to details at ends.
A local (NW US) (I think Clipper Craft)company is using same
technique using 1/2 MDO ply, and I belive 1" spacers to build 26'
offshore fishing/cruising dory style cabin boats.
They've been in business quite a while so must be doing somethin
right.
boat. They say that makes VERY stiff hull, and swear by MDO.
They do build nice wooden boats with what I remember to be about
12" wide "Stake" (making them apear to be built of 1 1/2" lumber.
Thanks again for the help. Maybe somebody else knows what I am
talking about, and am deffinatly going to pay more attention to detail
next time I see one.
Pat
--- In bolger@e..., "Orr, Jamie" <jorr@b...> wrote:
> I couldn't get into the files, but it sounds like you should be
backing up
> the lap with your stiffener, not putting it between the strakes.
The top of
> the strake should land on the stiffener, and the next strake up
should lap
> over that one in the same way it would if no stiffeners were used.
Take a
> look at Tom Hill's "Ultralight boatbuilding" -- he doesn't use
permanent
> stiffeners, but the battens on his jigs are similar in how they are
placed
> in relation to the lap.
>
> You might also look at "New Zealand Backyard Boatbuilder" available
through
> WoodenBoat magazine or at
>http://www.woodenboat.net.nz/Pages/OriginalPages/Johnpage.html
>
> (Note the woodenboat in the website is not related to WoodenBoat
magazine.)
> The author, John Welsford, uses permanent stringers (stiffeners) in
several
> of his designs. The book is also a catalogue of designs.
>
> Jamie Orr
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pateson@c... [mailto:pateson@c...]
> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 3:21 AM
> To: bolger@y...
> Subject: [bolger] Need help Getting lap ply to come together at ends
>
>
> Asked a while ago what was the trick to getting lap ply to come to
> single thickness at stem and stern, especially if addding 1x3/4
> stiffeners between plywood strakes (see drawing
>http://www.egroups.co.uk/files/bolger/Toad/Lap%20%20Sides%20.JPG)
>
> Would like to build with 1/4 ply and 1x3/4 stiffener strips between
> plywood strakes, but don't know how to make them lose thickness
> toward ends so don't have "bumpy stem and stern"
> Would appreciate some help. I know I would have to babbit just
> lappped ply to get them to come out the same, but what do I do
about
> the stiffeners. If I can get some help, I will dump my drawing
from
> the files to makke more room.
> Thanks
> Pat
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I couldn't get into the files, but it sounds like you should be backing up
the lap with your stiffener, not putting it between the strakes. The top of
the strake should land on the stiffener, and the next strake up should lap
over that one in the same way it would if no stiffeners were used. Take a
look at Tom Hill's "Ultralight boatbuilding" -- he doesn't use permanent
stiffeners, but the battens on his jigs are similar in how they are placed
in relation to the lap.
You might also look at "New Zealand Backyard Boatbuilder" available through
WoodenBoat magazine or at
http://www.woodenboat.net.nz/Pages/OriginalPages/Johnpage.html
(Note the woodenboat in the website is not related to WoodenBoat magazine.)
The author, John Welsford, uses permanent stringers (stiffeners) in several
of his designs. The book is also a catalogue of designs.
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From:pateson@...[mailto:pateson@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 3:21 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Need help Getting lap ply to come together at ends
Asked a while ago what was the trick to getting lap ply to come to
single thickness at stem and stern, especially if addding 1x3/4
stiffeners between plywood strakes (see drawing
http://www.egroups.co.uk/files/bolger/Toad/Lap%20%20Sides%20.JPG)
Would like to build with 1/4 ply and 1x3/4 stiffener strips between
plywood strakes, but don't know how to make them lose thickness
toward ends so don't have "bumpy stem and stern"
Would appreciate some help. I know I would have to babbit just
lappped ply to get them to come out the same, but what do I do about
the stiffeners. If I can get some help, I will dump my drawing from
the files to makke more room.
Thanks
Pat
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
the lap with your stiffener, not putting it between the strakes. The top of
the strake should land on the stiffener, and the next strake up should lap
over that one in the same way it would if no stiffeners were used. Take a
look at Tom Hill's "Ultralight boatbuilding" -- he doesn't use permanent
stiffeners, but the battens on his jigs are similar in how they are placed
in relation to the lap.
You might also look at "New Zealand Backyard Boatbuilder" available through
WoodenBoat magazine or at
http://www.woodenboat.net.nz/Pages/OriginalPages/Johnpage.html
(Note the woodenboat in the website is not related to WoodenBoat magazine.)
The author, John Welsford, uses permanent stringers (stiffeners) in several
of his designs. The book is also a catalogue of designs.
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From:pateson@...[mailto:pateson@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 3:21 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Need help Getting lap ply to come together at ends
Asked a while ago what was the trick to getting lap ply to come to
single thickness at stem and stern, especially if addding 1x3/4
stiffeners between plywood strakes (see drawing
http://www.egroups.co.uk/files/bolger/Toad/Lap%20%20Sides%20.JPG)
Would like to build with 1/4 ply and 1x3/4 stiffener strips between
plywood strakes, but don't know how to make them lose thickness
toward ends so don't have "bumpy stem and stern"
Would appreciate some help. I know I would have to babbit just
lappped ply to get them to come out the same, but what do I do about
the stiffeners. If I can get some help, I will dump my drawing from
the files to makke more room.
Thanks
Pat
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I looked at the diagram, and perhaps I am ignorant, but I have never heard
of using natural wood stiffeners BETWEEN the two plywood strakes and WITHIN
the lap. Typically, one sees a stringer backing up the lap, with both
strakes on the outside. That would avoid (1) very deep laps that might
interfere with water flow and be noisy, (2) the possibility of water
entering natural wood and causing swelling or weakening glue joints, (3)
difficulty in glassing the outside of the hull, and (4) problems with
landing the stringers on the stem.
Peter Belenky
of using natural wood stiffeners BETWEEN the two plywood strakes and WITHIN
the lap. Typically, one sees a stringer backing up the lap, with both
strakes on the outside. That would avoid (1) very deep laps that might
interfere with water flow and be noisy, (2) the possibility of water
entering natural wood and causing swelling or weakening glue joints, (3)
difficulty in glassing the outside of the hull, and (4) problems with
landing the stringers on the stem.
Peter Belenky
In a message dated 04/19/2001 7:<BR04:<BR55 AM
Eastern Daylight ,KF4call@...writes:
Is there any chance thta we can get another location for the files? I don't
think Photopoint has accomodation for files, but surely there is someplace
which won't require all this silly password stuff.
Cheers/Carron
Eastern Daylight ,KF4call@...writes:
> I would really like to take a look at this, but AGAIN yahoo is not lettingme
> sign on,Same here; for the last week or so.
Is there any chance thta we can get another location for the files? I don't
think Photopoint has accomodation for files, but surely there is someplace
which won't require all this silly password stuff.
Cheers/Carron
In a message dated 4/19/2001 6:23:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
pateson@...writes:
<< Asked a while ago what was the trick to getting lap ply to come to
single thickness at stem and stern, especially if addding 1x3/4
stiffeners between plywood strakes (see drawing
http://www.egroups.co.uk/files/bolger/Toad/Lap%20%20Sides%20.JPG)>>
I would really like to take a look at this, but AGAIN yahoo is not letting me
sign on, even though I am using the same password that I have always used
which didn't work for a while (after the changeover) but then did work up
until now.
-Warren
pateson@...writes:
<< Asked a while ago what was the trick to getting lap ply to come to
single thickness at stem and stern, especially if addding 1x3/4
stiffeners between plywood strakes (see drawing
http://www.egroups.co.uk/files/bolger/Toad/Lap%20%20Sides%20.JPG)>>
I would really like to take a look at this, but AGAIN yahoo is not letting me
sign on, even though I am using the same password that I have always used
which didn't work for a while (after the changeover) but then did work up
until now.
-Warren
Asked a while ago what was the trick to getting lap ply to come to
single thickness at stem and stern, especially if addding 1x3/4
stiffeners between plywood strakes (see drawing
http://www.egroups.co.uk/files/bolger/Toad/Lap%20%20Sides%20.JPG)
Would like to build with 1/4 ply and 1x3/4 stiffener strips between
plywood strakes, but don't know how to make them lose thickness
toward ends so don't have "bumpy stem and stern"
Would appreciate some help. I know I would have to babbit just
lappped ply to get them to come out the same, but what do I do about
the stiffeners. If I can get some help, I will dump my drawing from
the files to makke more room.
Thanks
Pat
single thickness at stem and stern, especially if addding 1x3/4
stiffeners between plywood strakes (see drawing
http://www.egroups.co.uk/files/bolger/Toad/Lap%20%20Sides%20.JPG)
Would like to build with 1/4 ply and 1x3/4 stiffener strips between
plywood strakes, but don't know how to make them lose thickness
toward ends so don't have "bumpy stem and stern"
Would appreciate some help. I know I would have to babbit just
lappped ply to get them to come out the same, but what do I do about
the stiffeners. If I can get some help, I will dump my drawing from
the files to makke more room.
Thanks
Pat