Meadowlark

Back about April 23, there was a flurry of posting about LFH's
Meadowlark. I came across a picture of one that I took at Mystic
Seaport about 1998. I will post a scan in Bolger2.

Note how delicate the spars look compared to what we are used to
seeing with aluminium extrusions.

Peter

Its a stretch for my memory, but I think that the meadowlark was intended to planked longitudinally on the bottom, and somehow I remember the planking was batten seamed. Anyone got an idea on this?

GHC wrote:

Wow, that's surprising, but then I haven't seen the plans nor the bottom on
the copy I sailed.  I just read "The Compleat Cruiser" by LFH, and he no
doubt had little sympathy for amateurs and hackers, so I wouldn't be
surprised.

And, I would guess the boat would have been designed in the 50's or so when
good planks were easier to come by. Was it to be cross-planked?

Come to think of it, I *think* the boat I sailed may have been glass...
Seemed like there were some heretics doing the same thing with the
Meadowlark as with my Rozinante.  And, this one was stretched to 38' - a
beautiful boat, though, with it's stubby little gaffs and custom bronze
gizmos.

Gregg Carlson
 

At 01:45 PM 4/24/2001 -0000, you wrote:
>Actually, the Meadowlark can't be built in sheet plywood without
>serious changes to the shape of the bottom.  In fact, it has the
>reputation of being devilishly difficult to build as designed.  You
>could cold-mold the bottom and use sheet ply for the sides, I think.
>L. Francis Herreshoff supposedly designed it to be easily built by
>amateurs, but practicality wasn't one of his strong points.  They're
>wonderful boats, though.
>
>--- In bolger@y..., ghartc@p... wrote:
>> Have a look at a Herreschoff Meadowlark, a 33 to 38 foot sharpie
>gaff-
>> rigged, leeboard schooner.  It could easily be built in plywood.
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
>- no flogging dead horses
>- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>- stay on topic and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
 

Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.

--- In bolger@y..., GHC <ghartc@p...> wrote:

> And, I would guess the boat would have been designed in the

50's or so... a beautiful boat, though, with it's stubby little
gaffs
and custom bronze gizmos.

>
> Gregg Carlson

I recollect reading in one of Bolger's articles that LFH told him
(PCB) that the leeboards on Meadowlark were too small as
designed. I don't think the plans were changed. This surprised
Bolger.

Vance

>Still, it's an old design. How about a Bolger Manatee? He thought of
>that as a Meadowlark replacement. I personally feel that the premier
>Bolger replacement for the Meadowlark is Berengaria: about the same
>size and accomodations, but with the water ballast, the Bolger-
>proportion schooner rig, and Birdwatcher-type accomodations. Bolger
>thru and thru.

I've been looking at Berernargia off and on since I got BWOM,
wondering if it might not be my next boat. But I think too big a
price is paid for seaworthiness I'm coming to realize I real don't
need. (Doesn't BWOM talk about taking Berernargia to Hawaii?)

I do like the simple interior. Most boats are too clever; trying to
stuff too much into too little space. Everything does more than one
thing, but you can't do any two at once.

YIBB,

David


CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296

> And, this one was stretched to 38' - a > beautiful boat, though,

with it's stubby little gaffs and custom bronze gizmos.

That would be the Alan Vaitses FG version. PCB wrote that the extra 5
feet is all stern overhang.

The original plans called for nice tapers on all the spars, including
the booms. We are so used to aluminum extrusions that a tapered boom
catches us by surprise these days. They add a lot of grace to the
overall effect. There is a lot of standing rigging though, which
allows light, slender (tapered) masts in a boat with limited
stability.

Still, it's an old design. How about a Bolger Manatee? He thought of
that as a Meadowlark replacement. I personally feel that the premier
Bolger replacement for the Meadowlark is Berengaria: about the same
size and accomodations, but with the water ballast, the Bolger-
proportion schooner rig, and Birdwatcher-type accomodations. Bolger
thru and thru.

Those with experience say that strip planking is not so difficult,
just hard work fairing the hull.

Peter

Wow, that's surprising, but then I haven't seen the plans nor the bottom on
the copy I sailed. I just read "The Compleat Cruiser" by LFH, and he no
doubt had little sympathy for amateurs and hackers, so I wouldn't be
surprised.

And, I would guess the boat would have been designed in the 50's or so when
good planks were easier to come by. Was it to be cross-planked?

Come to think of it, I *think* the boat I sailed may have been glass...
Seemed like there were some heretics doing the same thing with the
Meadowlark as with my Rozinante. And, this one was stretched to 38' - a
beautiful boat, though, with it's stubby little gaffs and custom bronze
gizmos.

Gregg Carlson


At 01:45 PM 4/24/2001 -0000, you wrote:

>Actually, the Meadowlark can't be built in sheet plywood without
>serious changes to the shape of the bottom. In fact, it has the
>reputation of being devilishly difficult to build as designed. You
>could cold-mold the bottom and use sheet ply for the sides, I think.
>L. Francis Herreshoff supposedly designed it to be easily built by
>amateurs, but practicality wasn't one of his strong points. They're
>wonderful boats, though.
>
>--- In bolger@y..., ghartc@p... wrote:
>> Have a look at a Herreschoff Meadowlark, a 33 to 38 foot sharpie
>gaff-
>> rigged, leeboard schooner. It could easily be built in plywood.
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
>- no flogging dead horses
>- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>- stay on topic and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,

01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349

>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

>> I'm getting doubled light scooner notions again, but wanted to
>> compare what the theoretical sail area of an LS2 to a real boat in
>> the same size range.
>
>It still sounds like a Reuel Parker Terrapin 34 to me. He has a
>schooner-rigged Egret 33, too, but no pictures.
>

What it really is is the Terrapin 34 stretched to 47 feet. (Both the
Terrapin and the LS2 have 10 foot beams.) Parker's also got a
Terrapin 42, and I'm nearly ready to send away for the study plans.

Using the Margaret Ellen for comparison, and checking prices at the
Despot, I think I can could build a 2:1 light scooner for about
$5000. That's everything: epoxy & glass covered hull, spars, and
butchered second hand sails. Not bad for a years worth of building
fun. But what do you do with a 47' open boat? That's where I worry
the cleverness and cost start to creep in. Next thing you know, your
5K hobby is a 15K, half-finished project sitting in the front yard,
an embarrassment to you and the neighborhood.

Still, the lure of building a big boat is growing hard to resist. In
my particular situation, hull length is not a particular liability,
and offers substantial benefits: more room, more stability, and more
easily driven by a given sail plan. In my mind's eye, I can see us
anchored up off Cartwright shoals in the early evening, fresh raked
clams as an appetizer, and fresh caught bass filets frying on the
Colman stove.

YIBB,

David





CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296

Actually, the Meadowlark can't be built in sheet plywood without
serious changes to the shape of the bottom. In fact, it has the
reputation of being devilishly difficult to build as designed. You
could cold-mold the bottom and use sheet ply for the sides, I think.
L. Francis Herreshoff supposedly designed it to be easily built by
amateurs, but practicality wasn't one of his strong points. They're
wonderful boats, though.

--- In bolger@y..., ghartc@p... wrote:
> Have a look at a Herreschoff Meadowlark, a 33 to 38 foot sharpie
gaff-
> rigged, leeboard schooner. It could easily be built in plywood.

> I'm getting doubled light scooner notions again, but wanted to
> compare what the theoretical sail area of an LS2 to a real boat in
> the same size range.

It still sounds like a Reuel Parker Terrapin 34 to me. He has a
schooner-rigged Egret 33, too, but no pictures.

Peter

http://www.parker-marine.com/terrapinpage.htm

Have a look at a Herreschoff Meadowlark, a 33 to 38 foot sharpie gaff-
rigged, leeboard schooner. It could easily be built in plywood.

I sailed one last summer, quite an interesting boat. Auxiliary
diesel, shallow draft - in fact, the one I sailed is for sale in
Texas.

Gregg Carlson

--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> I'm getting doubled light scooner notions again, but wanted to
> compare what the theoretical sail area of an LS2 to a real boat in
> the same size range. As I suspected, the LS2 is more heavily
> canvassed, but not by as much as a thought. I've already found
>sails a could cut a suit for the LS2 out of. But the LS2 would have
>a 25 foot main boom and a 450 square foot mainsail. That alone seems
>like a good reason to consider alternatives!
>
> I like the capacities of the breakdown schooner, but I long for
> something a little more traditional looking -- bigger difference
> between the main and foresail, sleeker deck houses and a sprit
> please! Yes, I know each of these things has it's reasons, but
> practicality is just another design parameter that needs to be
> into the design equation. Give "practicality" too much room to roam
> and you'll end up with all your money in a CD and no boats at all!
> ;-)

>Interesting vessel that schooner....be a mother to maintain though
>wouldn't it?
>

I dunno. Once a boat is painted for the first time, touching up
and/repainting isn't that big a deal. I'm not especially finicky.

I'm getting doubled light scooner notions again, but wanted to
compare what the theoretical sail area of an LS2 to a real boat in
the same size range. As I suspected, the LS2 is more heavily
canvassed, but not by as much as a thought. I've already found sails
a could cut a suit for the LS2 out of. But the LS2 would have a 25
foot main boom and a 450 square foot mainsail. That alone seems like
a good reason to consider alternatives!

I like the capacities of the breakdown schooner, but I long for
something a little more traditional looking -- bigger difference
between the main and foresail, sleeker deck houses and a sprit
please! Yes, I know each of these things has it's reasons, but
practicality is just another design parameter that needs to be worked
into the design equation. Give "practicality" too much room to roam
and you'll end up with all your money in a CD and no boats at all!
;-)

YIBB,

David

CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296

Hi David,

the sail areas are:


80 JIB
268 FORESAIL
70 MAIN STAYSAIL
303 MAINSAIL

SA (sans staysail) = 651 sqft
SA (with staysail) = 721 sqft

Interesting vessel that schooner....be a mother to maintain though
wouldn't it?

Chris
sunny Queensland, Australia.

--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> FBBB --
>
> I've let out my copy of BWOM (mistake.)
>
> Can any of you tell me what the sail area of the breakdown schooner
> is with and without the staysail?
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>

FBBB --

I've let out my copy of BWOM (mistake.)

Can any of you tell me what the sail area of the breakdown schooner
is with and without the staysail?

YIBB,

David

CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296