Re: Cruising the Bolger Way
I couldn't agree more. Our Chebacco is getting a little tight for
cruising, and we could use a real galley and head, so for our next boat
I'm getting ready to build Topaz. Have just made a model, and in 3D
it's very handsome. Shoal draft, easily driven, planing speed when the
water is flat, semi-displacement when it's not, big house, real berths
(with views), cockpit forward for maximum dayboat fun, and, not least,
a cabin in the form of a really nice octagonal cottage for waiting it
out when the weather really stinks. At 31 feet it's a project, but I'm
telling myself that just means bigger panels and more glue.
cruising, and we could use a real galley and head, so for our next boat
I'm getting ready to build Topaz. Have just made a model, and in 3D
it's very handsome. Shoal draft, easily driven, planing speed when the
water is flat, semi-displacement when it's not, big house, real berths
(with views), cockpit forward for maximum dayboat fun, and, not least,
a cabin in the form of a really nice octagonal cottage for waiting it
out when the weather really stinks. At 31 feet it's a project, but I'm
telling myself that just means bigger panels and more glue.
>
>
> Since you don't need an underwater lateral plane like
> a sailboat, you automatically have shallow draft.
> Stability curves aren't as critical with powercraft,
> so do away with ballast and add load carrying
> capacity. Go ahead and put standing headroom
> everywhere you want it since the added freeboard won't
> compromise sail handling.
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
>http://auctions.yahoo.com/
I second the motion. It would especially advantageous if one lived in a
area where used boats are plentiful...I have sailed some of those "plastic
classics" and they are decent boats. Olson 30 and Cal 27 come to mind.
Jim C.
area where used boats are plentiful...I have sailed some of those "plastic
classics" and they are decent boats. Olson 30 and Cal 27 come to mind.
Jim C.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tom [mailto:tkremer@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 7:04 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Cruising the Bolger Way
>
>
> I've thought about this a lot too. If you really want to just go the
> best solution would be to buy one of the sturdy older 30-40 ft
> fiberglass boats from Pearson, Bristol or Cal built in the '60s and
> early 70's. These boats were solid fiberglass, wholesome boats drawn by
> great designers like Carl Alberg, Phillip Rhodes and John Lapworth and
> built like the proverbial brick outhouse.
>
> As an example a Pearson Triton (28.5 feet) can be had in S.F for
> $8,000.. a Cal 40 for $25,000. Replace the standing rigging & thru
> hulls, put in a new Atomic 4, add the fancy electronic crap that will
> all die the first month anyhow and you are ready to circumnavigate!
>
> It wouldn't make sense to spend the money and the years building an
> ocean going cruiser when really great boats like those are so
> inexpensive... instead buy a used "plastic classic" and build a really
> nice Nymph for a tender.
>
> Tom K
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
MAIB Volume 18, number 6, August 1, 2000
Check your private email.
JB
Check your private email.
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Harry W. James" <welshman@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Cruising the Bolger Way
|
| I have been interested in the Wyoming for a while. Where did you see an
update of the design, did I
| miss a MAIB?
|
| HJ
|
| John Bell wrote:
|
| >
| >
| > One boat of Bolger's that continues to intrigue me is
| > his update of Wyoming. Instead of operating it as a
| > 150HP planing boat, Bolger re-did it by powering it
| > with a 50hp 4-stroke and improving the accommodations.
| > For protected water coastal cruising, like the
| > Intracoastal Waterway here in the eastern US, I could
| > imagine a lot worse boats to live aboard.
|
| _ _ _ _ _
| % Harrywelshman@...
|
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
| - no flogging dead horses
| - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
| - stay on topic and punctuate
| - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
| - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
|
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
John
Awhile back I wrote to Bolger about the Super Brick for live aboard cruising
and he responded along the same lines as your statement. He said that many
times a person is better off with a power auxliary for crusing and towing a
really find tender for sailing. In fact he recommended the WaterVan or the
Champain as two possible alternatives for a couple to do coastal cruising
in. I desided to build a smaller bolger design to do some sailing and to
spend some time thinking about the live aboard cruiser.
Michael Surface
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com
Awhile back I wrote to Bolger about the Super Brick for live aboard cruising
and he responded along the same lines as your statement. He said that many
times a person is better off with a power auxliary for crusing and towing a
really find tender for sailing. In fact he recommended the WaterVan or the
Champain as two possible alternatives for a couple to do coastal cruising
in. I desided to build a smaller bolger design to do some sailing and to
spend some time thinking about the live aboard cruiser.
Michael Surface
>From: John Bell <jmbell@...>_________________________________________________________________
>Reply-To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Cruising the Bolger Way
>Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:36:46 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>My comments are primarily directed at someone who is
>coastal cruising, not crossing oceans.
>
>Everyone always talks about cruising in a sailboat.
>Most of the time when I'm around coastal cruising
>destination, all the cruising-type sailboats seem to
>be motoring. The only boats who actually sail are the
>daysailors.Which leads me to ask wouldn't a low-power
>motor cruiser make more sense than something like an
>AS-29? Sailboats require certain compromises to make
>them sail that aren't as important in a power boat.
>
>
>Since you don't need an underwater lateral plane like
>a sailboat, you automatically have shallow draft.
>Stability curves aren't as critical with powercraft,
>so do away with ballast and add load carrying
>capacity. Go ahead and put standing headroom
>everywhere you want it since the added freeboard won't
>compromise sail handling. The powerplant is a
>significant expense, true, but so is a sailing rig.
>But, I'll wager that the cost of the sailing bits and
>the inevitable auxiliary on a sailboat will be in the
>same ballpark as more powerful motor the power-only
>version would need.
>
>One boat of Bolger's that continues to intrigue me is
>his update of Wyoming. Instead of operating it as a
>150HP planing boat, Bolger re-did it by powering it
>with a 50hp 4-stroke and improving the accommodations.
>For protected water coastal cruising, like the
>Intracoastal Waterway here in the eastern US, I could
>imagine a lot worse boats to live aboard.
>
>As one who loves the act of sailing, this is a kind of
>heresy I suppose. But if Iwant to go sailing, I could
>always carry a little sailboat as a tender.
>
>
>JB
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
>http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com
I've thought about this a lot too. If you really want to just go the
best solution would be to buy one of the sturdy older 30-40 ft
fiberglass boats from Pearson, Bristol or Cal built in the '60s and
early 70's. These boats were solid fiberglass, wholesome boats drawn by
great designers like Carl Alberg, Phillip Rhodes and John Lapworth and
built like the proverbial brick outhouse.
As an example a Pearson Triton (28.5 feet) can be had in S.F for
$8,000.. a Cal 40 for $25,000. Replace the standing rigging & thru
hulls, put in a new Atomic 4, add the fancy electronic crap that will
all die the first month anyhow and you are ready to circumnavigate!
It wouldn't make sense to spend the money and the years building an
ocean going cruiser when really great boats like those are so
inexpensive... instead buy a used "plastic classic" and build a really
nice Nymph for a tender.
Tom K
best solution would be to buy one of the sturdy older 30-40 ft
fiberglass boats from Pearson, Bristol or Cal built in the '60s and
early 70's. These boats were solid fiberglass, wholesome boats drawn by
great designers like Carl Alberg, Phillip Rhodes and John Lapworth and
built like the proverbial brick outhouse.
As an example a Pearson Triton (28.5 feet) can be had in S.F for
$8,000.. a Cal 40 for $25,000. Replace the standing rigging & thru
hulls, put in a new Atomic 4, add the fancy electronic crap that will
all die the first month anyhow and you are ready to circumnavigate!
It wouldn't make sense to spend the money and the years building an
ocean going cruiser when really great boats like those are so
inexpensive... instead buy a used "plastic classic" and build a really
nice Nymph for a tender.
Tom K
I have been interested in the Wyoming for a while. Where did you see an update of the design, did I
miss a MAIB?
HJ
John Bell wrote:
% Harrywelshman@...
miss a MAIB?
HJ
John Bell wrote:
>_ _ _ _ _
>
> One boat of Bolger's that continues to intrigue me is
> his update of Wyoming. Instead of operating it as a
> 150HP planing boat, Bolger re-did it by powering it
> with a 50hp 4-stroke and improving the accommodations.
> For protected water coastal cruising, like the
> Intracoastal Waterway here in the eastern US, I could
> imagine a lot worse boats to live aboard.
% Harrywelshman@...
Many have mentioned the estimable George Buehler, and his "Buehler's
Backyard Boatbuilding". More pertinent to this discussion is his
newer book, "The Troller Yacht Book--a powerboater's guide to
crossing oceans without getting wet or going broke". Just one of
his designs, the 44' Pilgrim, he describes as "a long-range cruising
powerboat within financial range of a burger flipper...I don't see
more than 15,000 1998 dollars in her, including the new 10-horse
Sabb diesel, or six months building time."
-- In bolger@y..., pvanderw@o... wrote:
Backyard Boatbuilding". More pertinent to this discussion is his
newer book, "The Troller Yacht Book--a powerboater's guide to
crossing oceans without getting wet or going broke". Just one of
his designs, the 44' Pilgrim, he describes as "a long-range cruising
powerboat within financial range of a burger flipper...I don't see
more than 15,000 1998 dollars in her, including the new 10-horse
Sabb diesel, or six months building time."
-- In bolger@y..., pvanderw@o... wrote:
> > Like most things about most pleasure boats, sails are more or lesscentury
> an affectation.
>
> When my father bought a cruising boat for use on the west coast of
> Florida, he found one problem was that it didn't have a big enough
> engine. Not that it wasn't big enough for his own use, but when he
> went cruising with a fleet from the boat club, as soon as the wind
> died, the fleet all motored away from him a couple knots faster than
> he could go. Typical Florida cruising weather is calms intersprersed
> by thunderstorms. (It is considered the Lightning Capitol of the
> World.)
>
> A good modern auxillary motors much better than an early 20th
> power cruiser. Racers spend a lot more time sailing in winds under
> 5kts that cruisers do. Cruisers don't bother.
>
> Peter
Hi Frank,
If you don't mind, I would like to stick in a couple of comments.
On your A option; When your looking at used boats, you will need the,
"Three piece surveyors kit" which consists of an ice pick, a hammer, and
a wife or girl friend to keep the sales person occupied while your
sticking and banging. That said, there is a lot that can be done to an
older used boat to personalize it, and that can be as much fun as
building from scratch. A restoration can be and many times is, as much
work as building a new one, the trick is to find a classic design that
will give enough incentive to keep you going through the bad days. There
are more unfinished restorations that are given up, than incomplete new
boats. It can be a tough row to hoe, I know from experience! But the
reward can be just as great, when you win the battle.
Here are a few web sites that have the "what dreams are made of type,
boats;
http://www.urifoundation.org/uriboats/index.html
http://www.chapman.org/boats/boats_main.htm
http://www.bargainboats.com/
Have fun looking, I hope this helps, Stan, Snow Goose and Diving
Duck.
If you don't mind, I would like to stick in a couple of comments.
On your A option; When your looking at used boats, you will need the,
"Three piece surveyors kit" which consists of an ice pick, a hammer, and
a wife or girl friend to keep the sales person occupied while your
sticking and banging. That said, there is a lot that can be done to an
older used boat to personalize it, and that can be as much fun as
building from scratch. A restoration can be and many times is, as much
work as building a new one, the trick is to find a classic design that
will give enough incentive to keep you going through the bad days. There
are more unfinished restorations that are given up, than incomplete new
boats. It can be a tough row to hoe, I know from experience! But the
reward can be just as great, when you win the battle.
Here are a few web sites that have the "what dreams are made of type,
boats;
http://www.urifoundation.org/uriboats/index.html
http://www.chapman.org/boats/boats_main.htm
http://www.bargainboats.com/
Have fun looking, I hope this helps, Stan, Snow Goose and Diving
Duck.
> Like most things about most pleasure boats, sails are more or lessan affectation.
When my father bought a cruising boat for use on the west coast of
Florida, he found one problem was that it didn't have a big enough
engine. Not that it wasn't big enough for his own use, but when he
went cruising with a fleet from the boat club, as soon as the wind
died, the fleet all motored away from him a couple knots faster than
he could go. Typical Florida cruising weather is calms intersprersed
by thunderstorms. (It is considered the Lightning Capitol of the
World.)
A good modern auxillary motors much better than an early 20th century
power cruiser. Racers spend a lot more time sailing in winds under
5kts that cruisers do. Cruisers don't bother.
Peter
>The powerplant is aLike most things about most pleasure boats, sails are more or less an
>significant expense, true, but so is a sailing rig.
>But, I'll wager that the cost of the sailing bits and
>the inevitable auxiliary on a sailboat will be in the
>same ballpark as more powerful motor the power-only
>version would need.
affectation. Most boats sit in their slips, or in the yard, and what
sort of a boat it is up blocks tells you more about the owner's
fantasies and how they wish to be seen than it does about what sort
of boating they like to do (which is mostly "none")
Buehler make a very similar argument in "Backyard" He ventured that
the sails for his latest project would buy him enough diesel to cross
an ocean or two under power.
>One boat of Bolger's that continues to intrigue me isAn uncle of mine professes that he would like to roam the
>his update of Wyoming. Instead of operating it as a
>150HP planing boat, Bolger re-did it by powering it
>with a 50hp 4-stroke and improving the accommodations.
>For protected water coastal cruising, like the
>Intracoastal Waterway here in the eastern US, I could
>imagine a lot worse boats to live aboard.
intercoastal when he retires in some sort of a trawler. I've offered
the Wyoming as a nearly perfect boat for his needs. Can you imaging
seein that thing gliding across Barnegette Bay at sunset -- 50 feet
of boat barely leaving a ripple! But the concept (a big boat he can
afford) is too radical for him to wrap his brain around. Too bad. I'd
love to help him put the hull together.
YIBB,
David
CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
My comments are primarily directed at someone who is
coastal cruising, not crossing oceans.
Everyone always talks about cruising in a sailboat.
Most of the time when I'm around coastal cruising
destination, all the cruising-type sailboats seem to
be motoring. The only boats who actually sail are the
daysailors.Which leads me to ask wouldn't a low-power
motor cruiser make more sense than something like an
AS-29? Sailboats require certain compromises to make
them sail that aren't as important in a power boat.
Since you don't need an underwater lateral plane like
a sailboat, you automatically have shallow draft.
Stability curves aren't as critical with powercraft,
so do away with ballast and add load carrying
capacity. Go ahead and put standing headroom
everywhere you want it since the added freeboard won't
compromise sail handling. The powerplant is a
significant expense, true, but so is a sailing rig.
But, I'll wager that the cost of the sailing bits and
the inevitable auxiliary on a sailboat will be in the
same ballpark as more powerful motor the power-only
version would need.
One boat of Bolger's that continues to intrigue me is
his update of Wyoming. Instead of operating it as a
150HP planing boat, Bolger re-did it by powering it
with a 50hp 4-stroke and improving the accommodations.
For protected water coastal cruising, like the
Intracoastal Waterway here in the eastern US, I could
imagine a lot worse boats to live aboard.
As one who loves the act of sailing, this is a kind of
heresy I suppose. But if Iwant to go sailing, I could
always carry a little sailboat as a tender.
JB
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
coastal cruising, not crossing oceans.
Everyone always talks about cruising in a sailboat.
Most of the time when I'm around coastal cruising
destination, all the cruising-type sailboats seem to
be motoring. The only boats who actually sail are the
daysailors.Which leads me to ask wouldn't a low-power
motor cruiser make more sense than something like an
AS-29? Sailboats require certain compromises to make
them sail that aren't as important in a power boat.
Since you don't need an underwater lateral plane like
a sailboat, you automatically have shallow draft.
Stability curves aren't as critical with powercraft,
so do away with ballast and add load carrying
capacity. Go ahead and put standing headroom
everywhere you want it since the added freeboard won't
compromise sail handling. The powerplant is a
significant expense, true, but so is a sailing rig.
But, I'll wager that the cost of the sailing bits and
the inevitable auxiliary on a sailboat will be in the
same ballpark as more powerful motor the power-only
version would need.
One boat of Bolger's that continues to intrigue me is
his update of Wyoming. Instead of operating it as a
150HP planing boat, Bolger re-did it by powering it
with a 50hp 4-stroke and improving the accommodations.
For protected water coastal cruising, like the
Intracoastal Waterway here in the eastern US, I could
imagine a lot worse boats to live aboard.
As one who loves the act of sailing, this is a kind of
heresy I suppose. But if Iwant to go sailing, I could
always carry a little sailboat as a tender.
JB
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
>Option A: Buy a used fiberglass or steel boat:Any boat you're going to sleep away on is going to need a few basics
no matter what the length, and I agree that in the 20-30 foot range,
building yourself is as much (or more) about building than it is
about saving money. But once you start adding feet beyond that, the
calculus changes. I had a conversation with the builder of the Loose
Moose II, and it seems to me he got a lot more boat for his effort
building himself than if he had gone shopping. Of course, one of the
prices you may not enjoy paying for this economy is having a boat
that looks like the Loose Moose II. As you said, it's all about
priorities.
>Take a moment to read Beuhler on "big little boats" (or was it little
>Option B: Build your dream boat;
>At the moment I am favoring Option B even though it means more time
>and money because I care a lot about shoal draft and a few other
>things. For the same money, I'd rather take a little extra time to
>build a smaller "awesome" boat than buy a bigger "kind-of-OK" boat.
big boats?) You might find you can have a larger "awesome" boat for
the more or less the same price as your "awesome" smaller boat.
Here's to dreaming the dream!
YIBB,
David
CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
I have been going through the same calculations for the past few
years and I waffle back and forth between building and buying used.
For me the options are:
Option A: Buy a used fiberglass or steel boat:
Pro - If you buy a used boat that needs a little work, the total cost
of boat and renovations are going to be cheaper than just your
materials if you build it yourself. Of course it is cheaper to build
than to buy a new boat.
Pro - gets you there quicker. It takes less man-hours to buy a good
old boat and refurbish it than to build a new boat, even a simple
Bolger design.
Option B: Build your dream boat;
Pro - You get things you could *never* have from a production boat
(especially with a Bolger design) - shoal draft, reliability,
simplicity, custom features, etc.
Pro - Building a boat is fun!
At the moment I am favoring Option B even though it means more time
and money because I care a lot about shoal draft and a few other
things. For the same money, I'd rather take a little extra time to
build a smaller "awesome" boat than buy a bigger "kind-of-OK" boat.
It all depends on your priorities.
Frank
Monument, CO USA
years and I waffle back and forth between building and buying used.
For me the options are:
Option A: Buy a used fiberglass or steel boat:
Pro - If you buy a used boat that needs a little work, the total cost
of boat and renovations are going to be cheaper than just your
materials if you build it yourself. Of course it is cheaper to build
than to buy a new boat.
Pro - gets you there quicker. It takes less man-hours to buy a good
old boat and refurbish it than to build a new boat, even a simple
Bolger design.
Option B: Build your dream boat;
Pro - You get things you could *never* have from a production boat
(especially with a Bolger design) - shoal draft, reliability,
simplicity, custom features, etc.
Pro - Building a boat is fun!
At the moment I am favoring Option B even though it means more time
and money because I care a lot about shoal draft and a few other
things. For the same money, I'd rather take a little extra time to
build a smaller "awesome" boat than buy a bigger "kind-of-OK" boat.
It all depends on your priorities.
Frank
Monument, CO USA
--- In bolger@y..., mike_vacanti@h... wrote:
> If you are interested in going cruising you might also want to
> consider buying a used boat. I'd wager that you could get a
suitable
> boat sooner and less expensively than if you built it yourself. Of
> course the amount of calendar time it would take to build a boat
> depends on how many other obligations you have. I've only built a
> June Bug myself and I was surprised how long everything took. The
> estimate from Harold Payson was 40 hours, I went way over that,
> probably over 100 hours.
>
> It certainly can be fun and rewarding to build a boat. But if you
> really want to go cruisng I think your odds of succeeding increase
if
> you buy an older fiberglass boat in reasonable shape. You'll also
> recoup more of your investment when you sell. It may be difficult
to
> even get back your materials cost when you sell a homemade boat. Of
> course I live in the U.S., things could be different in Australia.
>
> Mike
>
>
> --- In bolger@y..., c_i_becker@y... wrote:
> > Okay Group,
> >
> > What I need is an objective view on what would constitute the
best
> > cruising boat. Having been intrigued by the stories of the
Pardey's
> > and fed up with our modern life, I want to go cruising! IMHO,
> > Mr.Bolger has the best range of cruising vessels for the bloke
who
> > has a median income. Am I wrong?
> >
> >
>
> <Snip>
>
> > Chris.
> >
> > sunny Queensland, Australia
>>Okay Group,I would strongly second this! Buehler's got a *great* take on things,
>>
>>What I need is an objective view on what would constitute the best
>>cruising boat. Having been intrigued by the stories of the Pardey's
>>and fed up with our modern life, I want to go cruising! IMHO,
>>Mr.Bolger has the best range of cruising vessels for the bloke who
>>has a median income. Am I wrong?
>
>
>Check outhttp://www.georgebuehler.com
>
>In particular his book "Buehler's Backyard Boatbuilding".
>
especially how to "keep an eye on the prize" and get your cruiser in
the water without going broke.
Even if you decide his designs are idea for your cruising grounds
(his heavily balasted, full keeled designs would cut me off from a
lot of nice inside water here on the East Coast,) "Backyard
Boatbuilding" is a wealth of information on how to make owning a 30
or 40 or 50 foot boat something the average guy could muddle his way
into.
I am especially intrigued with his "longer boat" point of view. The
gist is that the hull is the cheapest part of the boat to make
bigger, and that if you take all the pieces that you'd put on a 30
footer and put them on a 30 footer stretch to 50 feet instead, your
boat will only be marginally more expensive, much roomier, and make
better speed on the same sail plan or motor.
He's also got a similar take on Bolger's "what are you *really* going
to do with this boat" approach to design, albeit Buehler is more
down-to-earth and his solutions are more traditional.
In short, even if all you' re going to do is dream the dream,
"Backyard Boatbuilding" belongs on your night stand.
YIBB,
David
CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
>Okay Group,Check outhttp://www.georgebuehler.com
>
>What I need is an objective view on what would constitute the best
>cruising boat. Having been intrigued by the stories of the Pardey's
>and fed up with our modern life, I want to go cruising! IMHO,
>Mr.Bolger has the best range of cruising vessels for the bloke who
>has a median income. Am I wrong?
In particular his book "Buehler's Backyard Boatbuilding".
hal
In a message dated 04/24/2001 9:<BR25:<BR32 PM
Eastern Daylight ,c_i_becker@...writes:>
Take a serious look at the notion of "Ya sails what ya has!!" If you will
have a Long Micro *for sure*, then there is no reason that the LM can't be
your ideal cruising boat. If you try to idealize, to reduce the question to
an "objective' formula, you'll never be settled on a particular design.
Cruise. find out what works for you and what doesn't. If you find that it is
constant hassle, you have the opportunity to ask if cruising is the hassle
and *you* are wrong for *it*, or if the boat is ineffective for you. Then you
build another :-) Yeah!
Cheers mate/Carron
Eastern Daylight ,c_i_becker@...writes:>
> FYI Yeah, I'm the one asking about the long keel on AS29 and will beChris,
> building a Long Micro when I receive the plans (its a public holiday
> today, should have the plans in by Friday
Take a serious look at the notion of "Ya sails what ya has!!" If you will
have a Long Micro *for sure*, then there is no reason that the LM can't be
your ideal cruising boat. If you try to idealize, to reduce the question to
an "objective' formula, you'll never be settled on a particular design.
Cruise. find out what works for you and what doesn't. If you find that it is
constant hassle, you have the opportunity to ask if cruising is the hassle
and *you* are wrong for *it*, or if the boat is ineffective for you. Then you
build another :-) Yeah!
Cheers mate/Carron
If you are interested in going cruising you might also want to
consider buying a used boat. I'd wager that you could get a suitable
boat sooner and less expensively than if you built it yourself. Of
course the amount of calendar time it would take to build a boat
depends on how many other obligations you have. I've only built a
June Bug myself and I was surprised how long everything took. The
estimate from Harold Payson was 40 hours, I went way over that,
probably over 100 hours.
It certainly can be fun and rewarding to build a boat. But if you
really want to go cruisng I think your odds of succeeding increase if
you buy an older fiberglass boat in reasonable shape. You'll also
recoup more of your investment when you sell. It may be difficult to
even get back your materials cost when you sell a homemade boat. Of
course I live in the U.S., things could be different in Australia.
Mike
consider buying a used boat. I'd wager that you could get a suitable
boat sooner and less expensively than if you built it yourself. Of
course the amount of calendar time it would take to build a boat
depends on how many other obligations you have. I've only built a
June Bug myself and I was surprised how long everything took. The
estimate from Harold Payson was 40 hours, I went way over that,
probably over 100 hours.
It certainly can be fun and rewarding to build a boat. But if you
really want to go cruisng I think your odds of succeeding increase if
you buy an older fiberglass boat in reasonable shape. You'll also
recoup more of your investment when you sell. It may be difficult to
even get back your materials cost when you sell a homemade boat. Of
course I live in the U.S., things could be different in Australia.
Mike
--- In bolger@y..., c_i_becker@y... wrote:
> Okay Group,
>
> What I need is an objective view on what would constitute the best
> cruising boat. Having been intrigued by the stories of the Pardey's
> and fed up with our modern life, I want to go cruising! IMHO,
> Mr.Bolger has the best range of cruising vessels for the bloke who
> has a median income. Am I wrong?
>
>
<Snip>
> Chris.
>
> sunny Queensland, Australia
> Which one is the Jochems Schooner? Is that in BWAOM?The Jochems is Bolger's Best New Idea for a cruiser in the mid-20
foot range. It's not in any of his books, but was in an Article in
WoodenBoat a couple of issues back. Here is a link to a web site
about the prototype.
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/jochems.htm#start
It's a leeboard boat, so perhaps not what you wanted.
Peter
Peter wrote:
a Long Micro type keel) so around 2-2.5 feet. Coastal cruising, with
ambition later on to cross oceans, besides the seas around Australia
are pretty tough as is. In regards to the Leeboard Catboat, I agree
with Mr.Bolger that it needs a few more feet.
With construction methods, strip plank or plywood, I don't care much.
Which one is the Jochems Schooner? Is that in BWAOM?
Thanks for the response Peter.
Chris
>that
> What are your requirements about draft? What are your requirements
> about open ocean/high winds/storms?
>
> If the AS-29 looks too big, I would prefer the Jochems schooner to
> the Jessie Cooper, as a personal preference. I would prefer the
> Leeboard Catboat or the Newfoundlander to either, but I take it
> you are looking at a plywood boat.Definitely shoal draft, but I would prefer a 'board' less vessel (i.e
>
> Peter
a Long Micro type keel) so around 2-2.5 feet. Coastal cruising, with
ambition later on to cross oceans, besides the seas around Australia
are pretty tough as is. In regards to the Leeboard Catboat, I agree
with Mr.Bolger that it needs a few more feet.
With construction methods, strip plank or plywood, I don't care much.
Which one is the Jochems Schooner? Is that in BWAOM?
Thanks for the response Peter.
Chris
> What would the Group suggest RE:Bolger Cruising?What are your requirements about draft? What are your requirements
about open ocean/high winds/storms?
If the AS-29 looks too big, I would prefer the Jochems schooner to
the Jessie Cooper, as a personal preference. I would prefer the
Leeboard Catboat or the Newfoundlander to either, but I take it that
you are looking at a plywood boat.
Peter
Okay Group,
What I need is an objective view on what would constitute the best
cruising boat. Having been intrigued by the stories of the Pardey's
and fed up with our modern life, I want to go cruising! IMHO,
Mr.Bolger has the best range of cruising vessels for the bloke who
has a median income. Am I wrong?
What would the Group suggest RE:Bolger Cruising? I have my eyes fixed
on an AS29, but am concerned at the cost and perhaps the complexity
of construction? My needs are simple, myself and an occasional guest,
enough supplies and fresh water for 2-3 months, a sit down WC,
headroom above the galley and a couple of sea berths. A hard dinghy
would be nice too. I'd like to build this in the next three years for
a reasonable some - about 1/2 years average salary (about $15,000-
$20,000).
Any suggestions Group?
FYI Yeah, I'm the one asking about the long keel on AS29 and will be
building a Long Micro when I receive the plans (its a public holiday
today, should have the plans in by Friday).
Ta.
Chris.
sunny Queensland, Australia
What I need is an objective view on what would constitute the best
cruising boat. Having been intrigued by the stories of the Pardey's
and fed up with our modern life, I want to go cruising! IMHO,
Mr.Bolger has the best range of cruising vessels for the bloke who
has a median income. Am I wrong?
What would the Group suggest RE:Bolger Cruising? I have my eyes fixed
on an AS29, but am concerned at the cost and perhaps the complexity
of construction? My needs are simple, myself and an occasional guest,
enough supplies and fresh water for 2-3 months, a sit down WC,
headroom above the galley and a couple of sea berths. A hard dinghy
would be nice too. I'd like to build this in the next three years for
a reasonable some - about 1/2 years average salary (about $15,000-
$20,000).
Any suggestions Group?
FYI Yeah, I'm the one asking about the long keel on AS29 and will be
building a Long Micro when I receive the plans (its a public holiday
today, should have the plans in by Friday).
Ta.
Chris.
sunny Queensland, Australia