[bolger] Re: Glass Rope for S&G/T&T
BO>I can see how tape would add very little additional strength to this
BO>process. Anybody know if Bolger's comment about NO TAPE (on inside
BO>fillets) has ever been resolved?
Don't know if its ever been resolved, but our Nymph has held together on
fillets only (tape on external chines, not on interior fillets) for 10
years of abuse. It's just that I'm sure the fillets added greatly to
the weight (and being thick, went saggy and runny during construction as
they heated up!)
Tim & FT2
BO>process. Anybody know if Bolger's comment about NO TAPE (on inside
BO>fillets) has ever been resolved?
Don't know if its ever been resolved, but our Nymph has held together on
fillets only (tape on external chines, not on interior fillets) for 10
years of abuse. It's just that I'm sure the fillets added greatly to
the weight (and being thick, went saggy and runny during construction as
they heated up!)
Tim & FT2
BO>FBBB --
BO>There's glass form called "rope" t<snip> a quick way to build up
thickness/strength.
BO>I've started to wonder if this might be a better (and cheaper) way to
BO>do the inside seams of tack&tape and/or stitch&glue boats, i.e.
BO>replacing the fillets of thickened resin with resin impregnated glass
BO>rope, and then taping over the top as usual.
Fillets are heavy, but so's glass rope (tho cheaper!) THere's a lot to
be said for plain old wood, more or less shaped, with epoxy gapfilling
and gluing. Cheaper, too.
FWIW, Michael Storer regards epoxy fillets as quote over-rated quote.
Tim & FT2
BO>There's glass form called "rope" t<snip> a quick way to build up
thickness/strength.
BO>I've started to wonder if this might be a better (and cheaper) way to
BO>do the inside seams of tack&tape and/or stitch&glue boats, i.e.
BO>replacing the fillets of thickened resin with resin impregnated glass
BO>rope, and then taping over the top as usual.
Fillets are heavy, but so's glass rope (tho cheaper!) THere's a lot to
be said for plain old wood, more or less shaped, with epoxy gapfilling
and gluing. Cheaper, too.
FWIW, Michael Storer regards epoxy fillets as quote over-rated quote.
Tim & FT2
tjfatchen@...wrote:
joints on mymph, I ended up pulling and cutting off about 25% of the
tape. I coated the joints with more epoxy afterward. Thickened epoxy
only would have been much easier. The outside came out much better and
the taped joints were also covered by 6 oz. cloth.
It's just that I'm sure the fillets added greatly to
>Glad to hear this since due to my poor taping job on the inside of the
> BO>I can see how tape would add very little additional strength to this
> BO>process. Anybody know if Bolger's comment about NO TAPE (on inside
> BO>fillets) has ever been resolved?
>
> Don't know if its ever been resolved, but our Nymph has held together on
> fillets only (tape on external chines, not on interior fillets) for 10
> years of abuse.
joints on mymph, I ended up pulling and cutting off about 25% of the
tape. I coated the joints with more epoxy afterward. Thickened epoxy
only would have been much easier. The outside came out much better and
the taped joints were also covered by 6 oz. cloth.
It's just that I'm sure the fillets added greatly to
> the weight (and being thick, went saggy and runny during construction as
> they heated up!)
>
> Tim & FT2
>
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Some further thoughts on fillet joint stresses and fillet joint
materials:
Bolger remarked somewhere that he experimented with fillet joints and
didn't see the need for a glass tape layer. In my own experience, one
of the main functions of the fillet (in a chine joint) is to immobilize
the bottom butt of the side panel - preventing it from "kicking in"
under loads from the outside. With no fillet (or with a fillet of
"soft" adhesive material), the tape on the outside of the joint holds
the outer veneer somewhat stiff as the butt of the panel pushes inward,
then delaminates under the side load, leading to joint failure.
Hopefully this crude line drawing won't get mangled by proportional
spacing:
||
||
/ ||
/ || <---fillet prevents side panel from "Kicking In"
=======
I can see how tape would add very little additional strength to this
process. Anybody know if Bolger's comment about NO TAPE (on inside
fillets) has ever been resolved?
I've experimented with PL-Premium construction adhesive on a small
double paddle canoe as a cheap, quick way to do fillets (photo of joint
athttp://www.alaska.net/~fritzf/Boats/Wacky_Lassie/Wacky_Lassie.htm)
So far so good ( I *did* tape that joint just to be safe) after modest
use.
If Bolger is correct about not needing tape inside, then I think any
rigid substance that adheres reasonably well would function OK (PL
Premium seems to retain a very small amount of elasticity, so may not
be ideal) - epoxy may be engineering overkill for fillets. On the
other hand, just in case it might count, I usually go for the overkill!
Fritz
---------------
Fritz Funk
My Boat Page:http://www.alaska.net/~fritzf/Boats/Boats.htm
(Bolger Sneakeasy and other projects)
materials:
Bolger remarked somewhere that he experimented with fillet joints and
didn't see the need for a glass tape layer. In my own experience, one
of the main functions of the fillet (in a chine joint) is to immobilize
the bottom butt of the side panel - preventing it from "kicking in"
under loads from the outside. With no fillet (or with a fillet of
"soft" adhesive material), the tape on the outside of the joint holds
the outer veneer somewhat stiff as the butt of the panel pushes inward,
then delaminates under the side load, leading to joint failure.
Hopefully this crude line drawing won't get mangled by proportional
spacing:
||
||
/ ||
/ || <---fillet prevents side panel from "Kicking In"
=======
I can see how tape would add very little additional strength to this
process. Anybody know if Bolger's comment about NO TAPE (on inside
fillets) has ever been resolved?
I've experimented with PL-Premium construction adhesive on a small
double paddle canoe as a cheap, quick way to do fillets (photo of joint
athttp://www.alaska.net/~fritzf/Boats/Wacky_Lassie/Wacky_Lassie.htm)
So far so good ( I *did* tape that joint just to be safe) after modest
use.
If Bolger is correct about not needing tape inside, then I think any
rigid substance that adheres reasonably well would function OK (PL
Premium seems to retain a very small amount of elasticity, so may not
be ideal) - epoxy may be engineering overkill for fillets. On the
other hand, just in case it might count, I usually go for the overkill!
Fritz
---------------
Fritz Funk
My Boat Page:http://www.alaska.net/~fritzf/Boats/Boats.htm
(Bolger Sneakeasy and other projects)
FBBB --
There's glass form called "rope" that we use for glassing fins on to
surfboards. It's a quick way to build up thickness/strength around the
base of the fins.
I've started to wonder if this might be a better (and cheaper) way to
do the inside seams of tack&tape and/or stitch&glue boats, i.e.
replacing the fillets of thickened resin with resin impregnated glass
rope, and then taping over the top as usual.
Can any of you engineer types offer opinions on this approach?
YIBB,
David
There's glass form called "rope" that we use for glassing fins on to
surfboards. It's a quick way to build up thickness/strength around the
base of the fins.
I've started to wonder if this might be a better (and cheaper) way to
do the inside seams of tack&tape and/or stitch&glue boats, i.e.
replacing the fillets of thickened resin with resin impregnated glass
rope, and then taping over the top as usual.
Can any of you engineer types offer opinions on this approach?
YIBB,
David
Well, I arn't and engineer, but the stress on that type of joint would
be at right angles to the fibers in your rope most of the time.
Perhaps chopped glass, if you are really looking for strength? Compression forces wouldn't be helped by glass fibers, rope or otherwise, and tension forces would be mostly on the surface.
David wrote:
FBBB --
There's glass form called "rope" that we use for glassing fins on to
surfboards. It's a quick way to build up thickness/strength around
the
base of the fins.
I've started to wonder if this might be a better (and cheaper) way to
do the inside seams of tack&tape and/or stitch&glue boats,
i.e.
replacing the fillets of thickened resin with resin impregnated glass
rope, and then taping over the top as usual.
Can any of you engineer types offer opinions on this approach?
YIBB,
David
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