Re: [bolger] I'm all conflicted
Run blue masking tape on the inside to keep the putty from pushing in to far, fill in the putty where
you don't have ties and let it set. Then cut the ties and finish filling the seam with putty, sand
when set and tape, and then flip the boat. If you roll it with out taping you are likely to have the
whole thing come apart on you. Guess how I know?
HJ
% Harrywelshman@...
you don't have ties and let it set. Then cut the ties and finish filling the seam with putty, sand
when set and tape, and then flip the boat. If you roll it with out taping you are likely to have the
whole thing come apart on you. Guess how I know?
HJ
> Now I'm thinking it_ _ _ _ _
> would be easier to flip the hull now with the zip ties holding it
> together and skip the outside putty job and make the fillets from the
> inside. It would probably make for smoother edges on the outside and
> save me some work to boot. On the other hand, I fear to wander from
> Dynamite's instructions. Thus, I'm all conflicted. Am I wrong?
>
% Harrywelshman@...
Yes, I did the outside first. Chebacco is pretty big, so you don't want to
be flipping more than you have to -- even if you could figure out how
without it falling apart. I set mine up on a semi-ladder building jig --
the bulkheads and molds were mostly anchored to a pair of 6 x 6's while the
ends "floated". Actually the weight of the ends was supported, but the
sides and bottom determined their position.
I didn't use any ties. The topsides and bottom were screwed and glued to
the stem and transom, and glued to the frames. (Having the ladder-type jig
may have made things easier at this point by keeping the pieces steady --
never thought about it before, but it seems logical.) I filleted all the
joints on the sides before I put on the bilge panels, while access was easy
and drips could fall on the ground. The bottom fillets couldn't be done yet
as they were upside down. The bilge panels were held in place by screws to
the stem and transom. I used short scraps of plywood to wedge or push the
edges into alignment with sides and bottom. These scraps were just screwed
to the sides and bottom wherever needed and the holes filled later. (I use
flooring screws, they have a good bite, are smoother than drywall screws and
don't break off in the hole the way drywall screws will.) Once all the
edges were in line, I used masking tape on the inside of the seam, and
filled the outside. I faired the cured seam before taping, if I remember
rightly. Then I glassed the entire outside. I didn't flip until I'd
completed the keel, false stem and skeg, but the hull was strong enough to
flip at that point if I'd wanted to.
There you go, way more than you asked for, but every step seems to lead into
something else!
Jamie
-----Original Message-----
From:jhkohnen@...[mailto:jhkohnen@...]
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 11:16 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: I'm all conflicted
Jamie-
Did you fill and tape the outside of the seams first when you built your
Chebacco? I think (I've never tired either way) it would be easier to get
nicely rounded chines if the gooping was done on the inside first,
otherwise the ties get in the way.
Whatever you did on Wayward Lass it sure turned out right in the end!
be flipping more than you have to -- even if you could figure out how
without it falling apart. I set mine up on a semi-ladder building jig --
the bulkheads and molds were mostly anchored to a pair of 6 x 6's while the
ends "floated". Actually the weight of the ends was supported, but the
sides and bottom determined their position.
I didn't use any ties. The topsides and bottom were screwed and glued to
the stem and transom, and glued to the frames. (Having the ladder-type jig
may have made things easier at this point by keeping the pieces steady --
never thought about it before, but it seems logical.) I filleted all the
joints on the sides before I put on the bilge panels, while access was easy
and drips could fall on the ground. The bottom fillets couldn't be done yet
as they were upside down. The bilge panels were held in place by screws to
the stem and transom. I used short scraps of plywood to wedge or push the
edges into alignment with sides and bottom. These scraps were just screwed
to the sides and bottom wherever needed and the holes filled later. (I use
flooring screws, they have a good bite, are smoother than drywall screws and
don't break off in the hole the way drywall screws will.) Once all the
edges were in line, I used masking tape on the inside of the seam, and
filled the outside. I faired the cured seam before taping, if I remember
rightly. Then I glassed the entire outside. I didn't flip until I'd
completed the keel, false stem and skeg, but the hull was strong enough to
flip at that point if I'd wanted to.
There you go, way more than you asked for, but every step seems to lead into
something else!
Jamie
-----Original Message-----
From:jhkohnen@...[mailto:jhkohnen@...]
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 11:16 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: I'm all conflicted
Jamie-
Did you fill and tape the outside of the seams first when you built your
Chebacco? I think (I've never tired either way) it would be easier to get
nicely rounded chines if the gooping was done on the inside first,
otherwise the ties get in the way.
Whatever you did on Wayward Lass it sure turned out right in the end!
On Wed, 9 May 2001 09:39:26 -0700 , Jamie Orr wrote:
> I was going to stay out of this but I'm curious -- why not go ahead and do
> the outside of the seams before turning the hull over? Both sides of the
> seams have to be filled and taped eventually, and if the hull is aligned
> now, why move it?
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
"Necessity is the mother of invention" is a silly proverb.
"Necessity is the mother of futile dodges" is much nearer the truth.
<Alfred North Whitehead>
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Jamie-
Did you fill and tape the outside of the seams first when you built your
Chebacco? I think (I've never tired either way) it would be easier to get
nicely rounded chines if the gooping was done on the inside first,
otherwise the ties get in the way.
Whatever you did on Wayward Lass it sure turned out right in the end!
Did you fill and tape the outside of the seams first when you built your
Chebacco? I think (I've never tired either way) it would be easier to get
nicely rounded chines if the gooping was done on the inside first,
otherwise the ties get in the way.
Whatever you did on Wayward Lass it sure turned out right in the end!
On Wed, 9 May 2001 09:39:26 -0700 , Jamie Orr wrote:
> I was going to stay out of this but I'm curious -- why not go ahead and do
> the outside of the seams before turning the hull over? Both sides of the
> seams have to be filled and taped eventually, and if the hull is aligned
> now, why move it?
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
"Necessity is the mother of invention" is a silly proverb.
"Necessity is the mother of futile dodges" is much nearer the truth.
<Alfred North Whitehead>
Ye Roger, go ahead.
I built Diablo using copper wire twisted together. Much of which
became part of the boat. If i wanted to remove it, I just heated it
up and it pulled right out. The tape did not hold for me either. If
something looks funny you can always fill, grind, sand, and fill
again.
David Jost
"very tempted to put something weird in the hollow space in the
aft part of the keel assembly. Why is this empty?"
I built Diablo using copper wire twisted together. Much of which
became part of the boat. If i wanted to remove it, I just heated it
up and it pulled right out. The tape did not hold for me either. If
something looks funny you can always fill, grind, sand, and fill
again.
David Jost
"very tempted to put something weird in the hollow space in the
aft part of the keel assembly. Why is this empty?"
> Roger --four
>
> Definitely go ahead with your plan. I found that when I built my
> Gypsy last summer, Payson's recommendation to hold all the panels
> together with masking tape was inadequate. There's a twist in the
> forward section of the chine that is hard to control. I used only
> masking tape, applied the putty and tape, and found after all had
> hardened that the side and chine panels in the forward three or
> feet didn't really line up properly. I sanded off the differenceand
> you only notice it when the sun is at a particular angle -- but Imade
> thought, he should have at least added a note saying wire ties or
> cable ties is the surest way to go. He does have that picture of
> pushing one of the panels sideways with a stick -- but it isn't
> clear that it's actually mandatory for getting it all to work.all
>
> So -- don't hesitate to adapt, improve, and go with your intuition.
> It's a simple design that lends itself to personalization.
> And good luck -- Gyspy is a gorgeous, fun boat. Send the group some
> pictures as it comes along.
>
> All best,
> Garth
>
> PS In the "Articles" section of Duckworks, there's a piece about
> the alternations I made to my Gypsy.
> Here's the URL:
>http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/articles/gypsy/index.htm
My boat has much wider gaps in the plywood than the one on Dynamite's
book, so I was thinking I could use masking tape to seal the outside
and fillet the inside, which is required anyway, and basically skip a
step. I'll never know because I just put the glue to it in it's
inverted state.
Roger S
book, so I was thinking I could use masking tape to seal the outside
and fillet the inside, which is required anyway, and basically skip a
step. I'll never know because I just put the glue to it in it's
inverted state.
Roger S
--- In bolger@y..., "Orr, Jamie" <jorr@b...> wrote:
> I was going to stay out of this but I'm curious -- why not go ahead
and do
> the outside of the seams before turning the hull over? Both sides
of the
> seams have to be filled and taped eventually, and if the hull is
aligned
> now, why move it?
>
> Jamie Orr
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kwilson800@a... [mailto:kwilson800@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 9:25 AM
> To: bolger@y...
> Subject: [bolger] Re: I'm all conflicted
>
>
> As long as the hull is stable enough to turn it over without
> distorting it at all, why not? I've heard of folks using dabs of 5-
> minute epoxy to hold a hull together prior to taping, or even duct
> tape! Whatever works; it's not going to be part of the final hull
> anyway.
>
> The Gypsy's a fine boat, BTW; it's an excellent example to refute
> folks who argue that taped-seam plywood boats are ugly. I built
one
> 12 years ago, and rather regret selling it. Do add a small skeg
> though; it'll make rowing in a straight line MUCH easier.
>
> --- In bolger@y..., roger99a@h... wrote:
> > I'm building a Gypsy . . . I'm thinking it
> > would be easier to flip the hull now with the zip ties holding it
> > together and skip the outside putty job and make the fillets from
> > the inside.
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Hi,
On the one stitch and glue that I built, It was almost
necessary to do the inside first. The inside is just a fillet
covered by glass. Only then could you flip it over and
do the necessary shaping and sanding of the outside
corners. It had to be held together by the inside joints
or you would not have been able to shape it.
James
On the one stitch and glue that I built, It was almost
necessary to do the inside first. The inside is just a fillet
covered by glass. Only then could you flip it over and
do the necessary shaping and sanding of the outside
corners. It had to be held together by the inside joints
or you would not have been able to shape it.
James
----- Original Message -----
From: "Orr, Jamie" <jorr@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 9:39 AM
Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: I'm all conflicted
> I was going to stay out of this but I'm curious -- why not go ahead and do
> the outside of the seams before turning the hull over? Both sides of the
> seams have to be filled and taped eventually, and if the hull is aligned
> now, why move it?
>
> Jamie Orr
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:kwilson800@...[mailto:kwilson800@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 9:25 AM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: I'm all conflicted
>
>
> As long as the hull is stable enough to turn it over without
> distorting it at all, why not? I've heard of folks using dabs of 5-
> minute epoxy to hold a hull together prior to taping, or even duct
> tape! Whatever works; it's not going to be part of the final hull
> anyway.
>
> The Gypsy's a fine boat, BTW; it's an excellent example to refute
> folks who argue that taped-seam plywood boats are ugly. I built one
> 12 years ago, and rather regret selling it. Do add a small skeg
> though; it'll make rowing in a straight line MUCH easier.
>
> --- In bolger@y..., roger99a@h... wrote:
> > I'm building a Gypsy . . . I'm thinking it
> > would be easier to flip the hull now with the zip ties holding it
> > together and skip the outside putty job and make the fillets from
> > the inside.
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Leave it where it is, spot epoxy weld it together, being sure to use
thick epoxy and to keep it clean and not get much outside where the
panels butt together.
Then, pull your ties and tape the seams. Inside, outside, whatever
you like.
thick epoxy and to keep it clean and not get much outside where the
panels butt together.
Then, pull your ties and tape the seams. Inside, outside, whatever
you like.
--- In bolger@y..., roger99a@h... wrote:
> Gentlemen,
>
> I'm building a Gypsy and have wandered from the instructions just a
> bit: I have the hull pieces together and (don't tell Dynamite) I
had
> to use zip ties to pull the panels together and line them up. If
> you're familiar with Dynamite's instructions, he says to make resin
> putty and fill the joints from the outside of the hull and tape it
> before you ever flip it and fillet the insides. Now I'm thinking
it
> would be easier to flip the hull now with the zip ties holding it
> together and skip the outside putty job and make the fillets from
the
> inside. It would probably make for smoother edges on the outside
and
> save me some work to boot. On the other hand, I fear to wander
from
> Dynamite's instructions. Thus, I'm all conflicted. Am I wrong?
>
> Roger S
I was going to stay out of this but I'm curious -- why not go ahead and do
the outside of the seams before turning the hull over? Both sides of the
seams have to be filled and taped eventually, and if the hull is aligned
now, why move it?
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From:kwilson800@...[mailto:kwilson800@...]
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 9:25 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: I'm all conflicted
As long as the hull is stable enough to turn it over without
distorting it at all, why not? I've heard of folks using dabs of 5-
minute epoxy to hold a hull together prior to taping, or even duct
tape! Whatever works; it's not going to be part of the final hull
anyway.
The Gypsy's a fine boat, BTW; it's an excellent example to refute
folks who argue that taped-seam plywood boats are ugly. I built one
12 years ago, and rather regret selling it. Do add a small skeg
though; it'll make rowing in a straight line MUCH easier.
the outside of the seams before turning the hull over? Both sides of the
seams have to be filled and taped eventually, and if the hull is aligned
now, why move it?
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From:kwilson800@...[mailto:kwilson800@...]
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 9:25 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: I'm all conflicted
As long as the hull is stable enough to turn it over without
distorting it at all, why not? I've heard of folks using dabs of 5-
minute epoxy to hold a hull together prior to taping, or even duct
tape! Whatever works; it's not going to be part of the final hull
anyway.
The Gypsy's a fine boat, BTW; it's an excellent example to refute
folks who argue that taped-seam plywood boats are ugly. I built one
12 years ago, and rather regret selling it. Do add a small skeg
though; it'll make rowing in a straight line MUCH easier.
--- In bolger@y..., roger99a@h... wrote:
> I'm building a Gypsy . . . I'm thinking it
> would be easier to flip the hull now with the zip ties holding it
> together and skip the outside putty job and make the fillets from
> the inside.
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
As long as the hull is stable enough to turn it over without
distorting it at all, why not? I've heard of folks using dabs of 5-
minute epoxy to hold a hull together prior to taping, or even duct
tape! Whatever works; it's not going to be part of the final hull
anyway.
The Gypsy's a fine boat, BTW; it's an excellent example to refute
folks who argue that taped-seam plywood boats are ugly. I built one
12 years ago, and rather regret selling it. Do add a small skeg
though; it'll make rowing in a straight line MUCH easier.
distorting it at all, why not? I've heard of folks using dabs of 5-
minute epoxy to hold a hull together prior to taping, or even duct
tape! Whatever works; it's not going to be part of the final hull
anyway.
The Gypsy's a fine boat, BTW; it's an excellent example to refute
folks who argue that taped-seam plywood boats are ugly. I built one
12 years ago, and rather regret selling it. Do add a small skeg
though; it'll make rowing in a straight line MUCH easier.
--- In bolger@y..., roger99a@h... wrote:
> I'm building a Gypsy . . . I'm thinking it
> would be easier to flip the hull now with the zip ties holding it
> together and skip the outside putty job and make the fillets from
> the inside.
--- In bolger@y..., roger99a@h... wrote:
Definitely go ahead with your plan. I found that when I built my
Gypsy last summer, Payson's recommendation to hold all the panels
together with masking tape was inadequate. There's a twist in the
forward section of the chine that is hard to control. I used only
masking tape, applied the putty and tape, and found after all had
hardened that the side and chine panels in the forward three or four
feet didn't really line up properly. I sanded off the difference and
you only notice it when the sun is at a particular angle -- but I
thought, he should have at least added a note saying wire ties or
cable ties is the surest way to go. He does have that picture of
pushing one of the panels sideways with a stick -- but it isn't made
clear that it's actually mandatory for getting it all to work.
So -- don't hesitate to adapt, improve, and go with your intuition.
It's a simple design that lends itself to personalization.
And good luck -- Gyspy is a gorgeous, fun boat. Send the group some
pictures as it comes along.
All best,
Garth
PS In the "Articles" section of Duckworks, there's a piece about all
the alternations I made to my Gypsy.
Here's the URL:
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/articles/gypsy/index.htm
> Now I'm thinking it would be easier to flip the hull now with theRoger --
> zip ties holding it together and skip the outside putty job and
> make the fillets from the inside . . .
Definitely go ahead with your plan. I found that when I built my
Gypsy last summer, Payson's recommendation to hold all the panels
together with masking tape was inadequate. There's a twist in the
forward section of the chine that is hard to control. I used only
masking tape, applied the putty and tape, and found after all had
hardened that the side and chine panels in the forward three or four
feet didn't really line up properly. I sanded off the difference and
you only notice it when the sun is at a particular angle -- but I
thought, he should have at least added a note saying wire ties or
cable ties is the surest way to go. He does have that picture of
pushing one of the panels sideways with a stick -- but it isn't made
clear that it's actually mandatory for getting it all to work.
So -- don't hesitate to adapt, improve, and go with your intuition.
It's a simple design that lends itself to personalization.
And good luck -- Gyspy is a gorgeous, fun boat. Send the group some
pictures as it comes along.
All best,
Garth
PS In the "Articles" section of Duckworks, there's a piece about all
the alternations I made to my Gypsy.
Here's the URL:
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/articles/gypsy/index.htm
Roger:
I say: go for it. Boat building is just common sense - there is no perfect
way to do any of it. Different methods have different advantages and
disadvantages. Often it is just personal preference. Your idea will work
fine, if fact, it has been done many times before. You can cut the ties off
flush, and just leave the bits in the joint.
Chuck
Gentlemen,
I'm building a Gypsy and have wandered from the instructions just a
bit: I have the hull pieces together and (don't tell Dynamite) I had
to use zip ties to pull the panels together and line them up. If
you're familiar with Dynamite's instructions, he says to make resin
putty and fill the joints from the outside of the hull and tape it
before you ever flip it and fillet the insides. Now I'm thinking it
would be easier to flip the hull now with the zip ties holding it
together and skip the outside putty job and make the fillets from the
inside. It would probably make for smoother edges on the outside and
save me some work to boot. On the other hand, I fear to wander from
Dynamite's instructions. Thus, I'm all conflicted. Am I wrong?
Roger S
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I say: go for it. Boat building is just common sense - there is no perfect
way to do any of it. Different methods have different advantages and
disadvantages. Often it is just personal preference. Your idea will work
fine, if fact, it has been done many times before. You can cut the ties off
flush, and just leave the bits in the joint.
Chuck
Gentlemen,
I'm building a Gypsy and have wandered from the instructions just a
bit: I have the hull pieces together and (don't tell Dynamite) I had
to use zip ties to pull the panels together and line them up. If
you're familiar with Dynamite's instructions, he says to make resin
putty and fill the joints from the outside of the hull and tape it
before you ever flip it and fillet the insides. Now I'm thinking it
would be easier to flip the hull now with the zip ties holding it
together and skip the outside putty job and make the fillets from the
inside. It would probably make for smoother edges on the outside and
save me some work to boot. On the other hand, I fear to wander from
Dynamite's instructions. Thus, I'm all conflicted. Am I wrong?
Roger S
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Gentlemen,
I'm building a Gypsy and have wandered from the instructions just a
bit: I have the hull pieces together and (don't tell Dynamite) I had
to use zip ties to pull the panels together and line them up. If
you're familiar with Dynamite's instructions, he says to make resin
putty and fill the joints from the outside of the hull and tape it
before you ever flip it and fillet the insides. Now I'm thinking it
would be easier to flip the hull now with the zip ties holding it
together and skip the outside putty job and make the fillets from the
inside. It would probably make for smoother edges on the outside and
save me some work to boot. On the other hand, I fear to wander from
Dynamite's instructions. Thus, I'm all conflicted. Am I wrong?
Roger S
I'm building a Gypsy and have wandered from the instructions just a
bit: I have the hull pieces together and (don't tell Dynamite) I had
to use zip ties to pull the panels together and line them up. If
you're familiar with Dynamite's instructions, he says to make resin
putty and fill the joints from the outside of the hull and tape it
before you ever flip it and fillet the insides. Now I'm thinking it
would be easier to flip the hull now with the zip ties holding it
together and skip the outside putty job and make the fillets from the
inside. It would probably make for smoother edges on the outside and
save me some work to boot. On the other hand, I fear to wander from
Dynamite's instructions. Thus, I'm all conflicted. Am I wrong?
Roger S