Re: [bolger] Re: Capri Headstay

OK, you're talking about the port upper shroud - the stays are fore and
aft. I would straighten it out myself, but it's an off-the-shelf part in
any event.

GHC

At 04:16 PM 5/22/2001 -0000, you wrote:

>> Your Capri was built in SoCal and rigged with standard US rigging.
>I would expect it has 1/4" threads (doubtful 3/16", 5/16", or 3/8").
>Any marine turnbuckle, closed or open, from West Marine, Defender,
>JSI, etc. will fit it (if the threads are clean).
>
>As it happens, it's the port top stay. The toggle lug on the bottom
>of the turnbuckle is deformed, probably because the toggle wasn't
>jammed in the wrong position somehow. I never noticed until rigging
>the boat this spring, so I'm not sure how it happened. I guess I will
>follow my original plan which is to take the offending part to West
>Marine and try to find a new turnbuckle which matches. I can always
>take it to one of our local riggers who really knows something, e.g.
>Hathaway, Reiser and Raymond.
>
>Peter

> Your Capri was built in SoCal and rigged with standard US rigging.

I would expect it has 1/4" threads (doubtful 3/16", 5/16", or 3/8").
Any marine turnbuckle, closed or open, from West Marine, Defender,
JSI, etc. will fit it (if the threads are clean).

As it happens, it's the port top stay. The toggle lug on the bottom
of the turnbuckle is deformed, probably because the toggle wasn't
jammed in the wrong position somehow. I never noticed until rigging
the boat this spring, so I'm not sure how it happened. I guess I will
follow my original plan which is to take the offending part to West
Marine and try to find a new turnbuckle which matches. I can always
take it to one of our local riggers who really knows something, e.g.
Hathaway, Reiser and Raymond.

Peter

One area in which metric is VASTLY superior is weight-mass-force
calculations. Grams are mass, Newtons (kg-m/sec^2) are force; no
problem, no confusion. The imperial system, OTOH, is a godawful mess -
pounds weight, pounds mass, pounds force, slugs - just keeping the
units straight is a genuine pain in the anatomy, and I'm a mechanical
engineer, one who's supposed to know this stuff. I usually convert
to metric if it's at all complicated. For dimensional measurements,
decimal inches solves most of the problems and makes it work almost
as well as metric (and you don't want to hear my rant against feet-
inches-eights in tables of offsets). On another subject, it's hard
to beat the convenience of one cc (ml) of water having a mass of one
gram.

Keith Wilson

Your Capri was built in SoCal and rigged with standard US rigging. I would
expect it has 1/4" threads (doubtful 3/16", 5/16", or 3/8"). Any marine
turnbuckle, closed or open, from West Marine, Defender, JSI, etc. will fit
it (if the threads are clean).

Check your swage fittings carefully for any cracks; change the whole
headstay if you find them. If you prefer to make up your own stay, your
can use a swage-less terminal like Stay-Loc.

Gregg Carlson

At 09:10 AM 5/22/2001 -0500, you wrote:

>Go to an industrial or machinist supply house and ask for a cheap plastic
>thread gauge. They are easy to use, and once you have the thread size, take
>the same gauge to the chandlers and reverse the process there. You will
>need to determine both the diameter and number of threads.
>>
>> > And don't get me going on "Whitworth" vs. SAE (or whatever)
>> standards for threads, etc.
>>
>> Here is a concrete question along these lines: I want to replace a
>> turnbuckle, but the end that is swaged to the stay is in ok shape. If
>> I buy a new turnbuckle of the same size, what are the odds that the
>> threads will be compatible? How best to identify the thread that I
>> need?
>>
>> The boat is a Catalina-built Capri 22. My conversations with them
>> have suggested that the rigging is done on a "per boat" basis, so the
>> original turnbuckles could well be whatever oriental generic hardware
>> they could get cheap that week.
>>
>> Peter

Peter:

Go to an industrial or machinist supply house and ask for a cheap plastic
thread gauge. They are easy to use, and once you have the thread size, take
the same gauge to the chandlers and reverse the process there. You will
need to determine both the diameter and number of threads.

Chuck

>
> > And don't get me going on "Whitworth" vs. SAE (or whatever)
> standards for threads, etc.
>
> Here is a concrete question along these lines: I want to replace a
> turnbuckle, but the end that is swaged to the stay is in ok shape. If
> I buy a new turnbuckle of the same size, what are the odds that the
> threads will be compatible? How best to identify the thread that I
> need?
>
> The boat is a Catalina-built Capri 22. My conversations with them
> have suggested that the rigging is done on a "per boat" basis, so the
> original turnbuckles could well be whatever oriental generic hardware
> they could get cheap that week.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

> And don't get me going on "Whitworth" vs. SAE (or whatever)

standards for threads, etc.

Here is a concrete question along these lines: I want to replace a
turnbuckle, but the end that is swaged to the stay is in ok shape. If
I buy a new turnbuckle of the same size, what are the odds that the
threads will be compatible? How best to identify the thread that I
need?

The boat is a Catalina-built Capri 22. My conversations with them
have suggested that the rigging is done on a "per boat" basis, so the
original turnbuckles could well be whatever oriental generic hardware
they could get cheap that week.

Peter

Bolger drew the plans for Dakota in metric. I have been a feet and
inches carpenter for 30+ years, but I went ahead with the project. I
bought an 8 meter tape measure from Sears. I am now a believer in
metric. I find it easier to write and remember dimensions as numerals
than as feet, inches, eighths, and + or -. Then, of course, with the
latter it is necessary to mentally reduce the fraction to correspond
with the markings on the tape measure -- easy, true, but another
opportunity for error. The 1mm precision is finer than 16ths. It's very
convenient to do all basic arithmetic with an ordinary calculator. I
scale from the drawing with the same tape measure that I have in my hand
for measuring the wood. Most of the Dakota plans are at a 1:15 scale, so
I just measure and multiply in my head or on my pocket calculator.
Bolger provides dimensions on the plans for the basic hull of the
Dakota. The various cabin options, however, are drawn to scale but no
dimensions are written in, so scaling from the plans is necessary.

Vince Chew

> Hi Pippo!!!
> Glad to see that you are still with us!How goes your MICRO,the
> boys,the wife,the job,your projects and deep dark space?!?!
> I,for one,miss your web page along with the progress
> notes/pictures of your MICRO.You really should drop in more often and
> at least share with us some delicious recipes or recommend a fine wine
> or two from that beautiful country of yours!

Ditto that!.

What about it Pippo? how about bringing your site up again.?

Brian Vickers

So, the way to solve all these problems is to change our counting system to
base 12, or base 8. I like eight because it is 2*2*2. Also we have eight
fingers.

Chuck

>
> FBBB --
>
> There's a rigger out of the bay area who publishes a lot of
> (surprise) rigging information. Stopped by his web site and found a
> *great* essay on the advantages of imperial over metric. Don't have
> the URL, but the gist of it is that since 12 is 2*2*3 and evenly
> divisible by 2,3,4, and 6 it makes working easier. He even says he
> found European who were using 1.2 meter boards as their "standard" --
> working their way back to the system that naturally grew out of the
> need of working with things of more or less human dimensions.
>
> I'm not saying he's right, but after a thorough indoctrination in the
> advantages of metric over imperial, it was very interesting to read a
> cogent argument for feet, inches, and eighths.
>
> I'll try to find the ULR.
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
>
> CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
> 134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
> New York, New York 10001
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 247-0296
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

FBBB --

There's a rigger out of the bay area who publishes a lot of
(surprise) rigging information. Stopped by his web site and found a
*great* essay on the advantages of imperial over metric. Don't have
the URL, but the gist of it is that since 12 is 2*2*3 and evenly
divisible by 2,3,4, and 6 it makes working easier. He even says he
found European who were using 1.2 meter boards as their "standard" --
working their way back to the system that naturally grew out of the
need of working with things of more or less human dimensions.

I'm not saying he's right, but after a thorough indoctrination in the
advantages of metric over imperial, it was very interesting to read a
cogent argument for feet, inches, and eighths.

I'll try to find the ULR.

YIBB,

David


CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296

Don,
Although I grew up with feet,pounds and miles(hands and ears too!)
I did live through our big drive to go metric up here.We were told it
was the wave of the future.The consumer groups all warned the
politicians that the change over would confuse us all and that gouging
would be everywhere!
To minimize the confusion,prices were kept pretty much the same
while familiar things went metric.Goodbye quart,hello litre.Yes,most
of it got smaller while prices remained unchanged or even went
up!(manufactureres"had" to pass the cost of converting onto the
consumer...how else could those poor goverenment subsidized
puppies be expected to survive?!)
The sneaky stuff happened at the gas pumps.Just before our gas got
to a buck per gallon and government/big oil feared the outrage PRESTO
along came the wee litre at a cheap .23cents!This at a time when every
single increase was being blamed on those nasty OPEC fellows and oil
was at $44.00/barrel.
Well.......we now pay .89 cents/litre(over three bucks a gallon!)
yet oil is around $22.00/barrel!We have yet to hit the psychological
barrier of a buck per measure but there is now talk of converting all
the meters on the pumps to allow them to handle dollars per
litre.Oil companies shed respondsibility for the high prices on the
government tax grab and government blames world
markets......blah,blah,blah.
Here in Quebec,we are blessed with a particular sub-species of
spring squash(politician) that sees absolutely nothing wrong with a
tax applied to a tax and then proceeds to blow millions on an ad
campaign to tell us we are being"bad citizens" for spending our after
tax dollars outside the province and that anything we buy on the"black
market"(only one tax or tax free,yippee!) is a grave injustice.
Anyhow,I like to work in imperial units but can handle metric(as
long as the joints are tight!).Litres vs gallons........doesn't really
bother me either as long as it tastes good and there is plenty of
cheese around!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,all worked up for a holiday, sailing under a sunny sky
on the St.Lawrence.............

--- In bolger@y..., StepHydro@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 05/20/2001 8:<BR17:<BR42 PM
> Eastern Daylight , B_Fountain@M... writes:]
> > Just because dimensions are specified in metric doesn't mean
> > they have to be rounded down!
>
> I thought it was required. Here in the US, every time something goes
tometric
> sizing, it gets smaller and the price goes up. Hey, there *is* a
benefit to
> metrication... it's just that it's for the manufacturers!!!
>
> Carron

Hi Pippo!!!
Glad to see that you are still with us!How goes your MICRO,the
boys,the wife,the job,your projects and deep dark space?!?!
I,for one,miss your web page along with the progress
notes/pictures of your MICRO.You really should drop in more often and
at least share with us some delicious recipes or recommend a fine wine
or two from that beautiful country of yours!Also,if you ever get tired
from peering all night long up into the Italian heavens,you might want
to take a"business trip" to Quebec and visit our telescope at Lac
Megantic.Just a couple of hours from Montreal!Then you would have an
excuse to take a day off and come sailing on my MICRO.......my pesky
crew could even whip up some grand salads and dishes guaranteed to
make you feel right at home!!
Anyway,best of luck with your dreams and projects my friend!!!

Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,looking forward to another sunny day out on the
St.Lawrence........




--- In bolger@y..., "Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco" <giuseppe.bianco@a...>
wrote:

> Hi there - the Hubble problem was not due to units, but to a setup
> error in the interferometer, which generated a "perfectly wrong"
> surface profile on the primary mirror. However, NASA did loose a

Mars

> probe (and fooled some Shuttle laser tracking experiments) due to
> wrong interfaces between software routines, some based on the
> imperial and others on metric.
> I'm personally ok with both, however the advantage of the metric as

a

> base 10 system cannot be overlooked.
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "Lothar Schwarz" <service@e...> wrote:
> > Yeah
> >
> > You wrote: we did put a man on the moon with that system.
> >
> > But the brains behind it wehre working in metric.
> >
> > Have you heared about the problem with the Hubble telescope, which
> I
> > belive was caused by the confusion about metric and the

other..what

> > was is it called ??!!..
> >
> >
> > Lothar Schwarz>
> > Cairns
> > Australia>
> > >
> > > Don't believe it about American manufacturers. I've worked in
> > three
> > auto
> > > related factories in the past 10 years and metric prints are
> > routinely
> > > converted to thousandths. The only way the U.S. will ever

switch

> > to
> > metric
> > > (which they should, but I never will) is to do what they did in
> > Canada and
> > > just begin teaching the children metric and not imperial. My
> > Canadian wife
> > > is about half and half, but her daughter hasn't got a clue about
> the
> > > Imperial system. Frankly I'm comfortable with each, but I still
> > prefer the
> > > Imperial system, we did put a man on the moon with that system.

Hi there - the Hubble problem was not due to units, but to a setup
error in the interferometer, which generated a "perfectly wrong"
surface profile on the primary mirror. However, NASA did loose a Mars
probe (and fooled some Shuttle laser tracking experiments) due to
wrong interfaces between software routines, some based on the
imperial and others on metric.
I'm personally ok with both, however the advantage of the metric as a
base 10 system cannot be overlooked.

--- In bolger@y..., "Lothar Schwarz" <service@e...> wrote:
> Yeah
>
> You wrote: we did put a man on the moon with that system.
>
> But the brains behind it wehre working in metric.
>
> Have you heared about the problem with the Hubble telescope, which
I
> belive was caused by the confusion about metric and the other..what
> was is it called ??!!..
>
>
> Lothar Schwarz>
> Cairns
> Australia>
> >
> > Don't believe it about American manufacturers. I've worked in
> three
> auto
> > related factories in the past 10 years and metric prints are
> routinely
> > converted to thousandths. The only way the U.S. will ever switch
> to
> metric
> > (which they should, but I never will) is to do what they did in
> Canada and
> > just begin teaching the children metric and not imperial. My
> Canadian wife
> > is about half and half, but her daughter hasn't got a clue about
the
> > Imperial system. Frankly I'm comfortable with each, but I still
> prefer the
> > Imperial system, we did put a man on the moon with that system.

I've worked with both systems my entire life, having grown up with a
father who is a boilermaker and welder and as a survivor of the
public school system (no pun).

I find that both systems have their place, with imperial best used
for larger dimensions, e.g. thirty feet, a hundred yards etc. and
weights - who the hell knows 77 kg? or 500 grams? Isn't 170lbs and
half a pound more manageable?

Metric is good for scaling and smaller dimensions IMHO. e.g. 3 mm,
1.5mm, 12mm, 1:1 to 1:10 just move the decimal point.

The Marine ply that I buy here in Brisbane Australia is 8 foot by 4
foot, not 2400mm x 1200mm. Exterior ply is usually that dimension
because most if not all exterior and structural ply is made in
Australia, whereas most but not all Marine grade ply is made overseas.

I think the Poms still use imperial measurements although under the
law they must use metric - a part of being Germancentric I mean
Eurocentric. heh heh

Chris B.

Yeah

You wrote: we did put a man on the moon with that system.

But the brains behind it wehre working in metric.

Have you heared about the problem with the Hubble telescope, which I
belive was caused by the confusion about metric and the other..what
was is it called ??!!..


Lothar Schwarz>
Cairns
Australia>

>
> Don't believe it about American manufacturers. I've worked in

three
auto

> related factories in the past 10 years and metric prints are

routinely

> converted to thousandths. The only way the U.S. will ever switch

to
metric

> (which they should, but I never will) is to do what they did in

Canada and

> just begin teaching the children metric and not imperial. My

Canadian wife

> is about half and half, but her daughter hasn't got a clue about the
> Imperial system. Frankly I'm comfortable with each, but I still

prefer the

> Imperial system, we did put a man on the moon with that system.

I thought it was required. Here in the US, every time something goes to
metric
sizing, it gets smaller and the price goes up. Hey, there *is* a benefit to
metrication... it's just that it's for the manufacturers!!!



Don't believe it about American manufacturers. I've worked in three auto
related factories in the past 10 years and metric prints are routinely
converted to thousandths. The only way the U.S. will ever switch to metric
(which they should, but I never will) is to do what they did in Canada and
just begin teaching the children metric and not imperial. My Canadian wife
is about half and half, but her daughter hasn't got a clue about the
Imperial system. Frankly I'm comfortable with each, but I still prefer the
Imperial system, we did put a man on the moon with that system.

In a message dated 05/20/2001 8:<BR17:<BR42 PM
Eastern Daylight ,B_Fountain@...writes:]

> Just because dimensions are specified in metric doesn't mean
> they have to be rounded down!

I thought it was required. Here in the US, every time something goes tometric
sizing, it gets smaller and the price goes up. Hey, there *is* a benefit to
metrication... it's just that it's for the manufacturers!!!

Carron

scrawford@...wrote:

> My problem comes from the limitations posed by the
> fact I can only obtain metric sized sheets of ply when the
> boat I have
> dicided to build is in feet, inches and eighths.

The first batch of marine ply I bought in Sydney was 2400x1200
and I had to shorten my D4 slightly. After that I bought
exterior which was always 2440x1220. The smaller sizing seems
to be unusual here in Australia, I have never seen it again.
Just because dimensions are specified in metric doesn't mean
they have to be rounded down!

Bruce Fountain


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I am able to use both systems with metric being the quickest and
easiest for me. My problem comes from the limitations posed by the
fact I can only obtain metric sized sheets of ply when the boat I have
dicided to build is in feet, inches and eighths.
American sized ply is made here but only for export and I have been
unable to obtain it here.
While I find metric more comfortable and am aware of its accuracy for
most things I notice it still isn't accurate enough for navigation.

Stuart
New Zealand.

While I think we'd all be better off if we adopted metric, my experience is
that you cna get used to anything you use enough. I grew up with feet and
inches and have worked in fractional inches for wood and thousandths for
metal. I've also used metric in a laboratory for years. But another hobby
of mine involves historical research in 18th century America and I find
getting used to pounds, shillings, and pence quite a hassle, especially for
multiplication, such as one would encounter in a simple purchase at a
grocer. But clearly lots of folks dealt with it just fine for many, many,
years.

Dan

>> Living in New Zealand I've been brought up on metrics which
>makes feet and inches seem very unatural.
>
>To those who defend US over metric, I like to ask this... How
>many firkens make a hogshead of butter?
>
>My Micro plans, though, are in feet, inches and eighths. I know I
>could work from these with the help of my architect's scale
>(made in Germany).

--- In bolger@y..., scrawford@p... wrote:

> Living in New Zealand I've been brought up on metrics which makes

feet

> and inches seem very unatural. For instance I am building Cynthia J
> which requires sheets of 3/8" x 4' x 8' to make a boat 14'6".

However

> I can only get sheets of 9mm x 1.2m x 2.4m which isn't quite the

same.

> Instead of divideing the length into feet I have to divide it into
> lengths of 300mm which gives me a boat of 14'3 1/2". All this
> converting can get very confusing. Aside from the length I am doing
> every thing else in feet and inches because the plans are done that
> way and I can still do the rest of it with the width of my sheets.

But

> I've got to say that I can divide any metric measurment with a

basic

> calculater but I wouldn't know what to do with one for feet a

It's a pity you are not building a Micro, I have converted it to
metric, and you could have copied off my plans.
Actually my ply sheets(from Timpan City in Auckland), were very
slightly larger than 8x4, something like 2420x1220. I didnt find out
until after joining the sides and setting it out.......couldnt work
out what was happening. Anyhow, I now have the longest Micro
(slightly) in the world! Check around for true sheet sizes.
DonB

I thought it was metric vs English. Am I wrong?

--- In bolger@y..., vcgraphics@t... wrote:
> --- In bolger@y..., scrawford@p... wrote:
> > Living in New Zealand I've been brought up on metrics which
> makes feet and inches seem very unatural.
>
> To those who defend US over metric, I like to ask this... How
> many firkens make a hogshead of butter?
>
> My Micro plans, though, are in feet, inches and eighths. I know I
> could work from these with the help of my architect's scale
> (made in Germany).
>
> Vance

--- In bolger@y..., scrawford@p... wrote:

> Living in New Zealand I've been brought up on metrics which

makes feet and inches seem very unatural.

To those who defend US over metric, I like to ask this... How
many firkens make a hogshead of butter?

My Micro plans, though, are in feet, inches and eighths. I know I
could work from these with the help of my architect's scale
(made in Germany).

Vance

Living in New Zealand I've been brought up on metrics which makes feet
and inches seem very unatural. For instance I am building Cynthia J
which requires sheets of 3/8" x 4' x 8' to make a boat 14'6". However
I can only get sheets of 9mm x 1.2m x 2.4m which isn't quite the same.
Instead of divideing the length into feet I have to divide it into
lengths of 300mm which gives me a boat of 14'3 1/2". All this
converting can get very confusing. Aside from the length I am doing
every thing else in feet and inches because the plans are done that
way and I can still do the rest of it with the width of my sheets. But
I've got to say that I can divide any metric measurment with a basic
calculater but I wouldn't know what to do with one for feet a