Re: [bolger] access to bolger's plans (was tears in paradise)
>From:stephen@...I have been quite up to now also but here is my two cents. I would have
>Reply-To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [bolger] access to bolger's plans (was tears in paradise)
>Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 18:21:38 -0000
>
>I've mostly been lurking around here, but after reading some of the
>posts re "tears in paradise" I decided to throw in my two cents.
>
never known who Phil Bolger was or anything about his boats if it where not
for Common Sense Boat's web site. Because of CSB and other web sites I
purchased "Boats with An Open Mind" and plans for the Brick from CSB. I
feel that PCB&F (particularly Susan) think that the web sites are causing
them lost to income and wish they would go away. I feel that this is a case
of "be careful what you wish for" and if these sites disappeared they would
really lose business.
Michael Surface
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com
I've visited Phil and Susanne in Gloucester on a couple of occasions. I
hope that he will design the boat of my dreams fairly soon. I've had
fairly regular discussions with Phil and Susanne about getting a web
page together and getting their designs out.
Unfortunately the life of The Famous Boat Designer and his consort
resembles what passes for real life amongst almost all of us. There are
too many things to do and not enough time, energy and probably money to
get even most of them done when you'd like them to be done.
Phil (and Susanne who has some neat designs of her own) continue to
design boats. Just in case you haven't noticed, Phil Bolger & Friends'
designs are not the same old stuff warmed over, stretched out, made
taller, or the frames just moved out 33% from his previous designs. Even
though they were designed to perform substantially the same function,
"Loose Moose II" and "Barn Owl" don't look very much like each other.
Both are incredible designs.
These days Phil only works on interesting designs. Phil only works on
interesting designs that he's pretty confident that the design will be
built. Working on interesting designs means solving interesting problems
usually in damnably clever ways. I suspect that, even for a genius,
being damnably clever while solving problems takes some time.
Fortunately or unfortunately, both Phil and Susanne are pretty close to
perfectionists when it comes to boat design. They want to make their web
site a repository for Phil's seven hundred odd boat designs. (He may not
be at 700 yet, but he was working on 664 last winter.)
In addition they had to move a couple of years ago. They are (still)
remodeling their new house. They are doing the work themselves.
I haven't ordered a stock design from PB&F for several years, but when I
did, the plans came to me with alacrity and dispatch. I haven't heard
anyone say, "I ordered some plans for Phil's design number XYZ and I
haven't heard anything from PB&F for a whole week." Of course I may have
missed this thread. My impression from talking to Phil and Susanne and
accompanying them on a drive to the Post Office is that every order goes
out the day it is received.
Currently the crisis that is occupying way too much of their time and
keeping them away from drawing boards, HTML, remodeling projects, their
own boats and having fun is the very real threat by the Registered
Professional Engineers to make it impossible for Phil to design another
boat.
Perhaps we should fax PB&F and ask how we can help keep boat design open
to people with talent who didn't get an engineering degree nor pass a
Professional Engineer exam. (One way we can help is to write our state
legislators and governors to say that requiring boat designers to be
registered professional engineers is a BAD IDEA.
So, PB&F is busy. PB&F plans and hopes to get a very good web page up
"real soon now." (Real soon now is code in the computer world for "we're
working on it but don't know when it will really get done.") PB&F will
sell and deliver to you a nice set of plans pretty much right now, just
mail the check. If you want Phil to design you a boat, you have a better
chance of getting it accepted if it is interested.
I don't presume to speak for PB&F but I can report on what I've seen.
Phil Smith
hope that he will design the boat of my dreams fairly soon. I've had
fairly regular discussions with Phil and Susanne about getting a web
page together and getting their designs out.
Unfortunately the life of The Famous Boat Designer and his consort
resembles what passes for real life amongst almost all of us. There are
too many things to do and not enough time, energy and probably money to
get even most of them done when you'd like them to be done.
Phil (and Susanne who has some neat designs of her own) continue to
design boats. Just in case you haven't noticed, Phil Bolger & Friends'
designs are not the same old stuff warmed over, stretched out, made
taller, or the frames just moved out 33% from his previous designs. Even
though they were designed to perform substantially the same function,
"Loose Moose II" and "Barn Owl" don't look very much like each other.
Both are incredible designs.
These days Phil only works on interesting designs. Phil only works on
interesting designs that he's pretty confident that the design will be
built. Working on interesting designs means solving interesting problems
usually in damnably clever ways. I suspect that, even for a genius,
being damnably clever while solving problems takes some time.
Fortunately or unfortunately, both Phil and Susanne are pretty close to
perfectionists when it comes to boat design. They want to make their web
site a repository for Phil's seven hundred odd boat designs. (He may not
be at 700 yet, but he was working on 664 last winter.)
In addition they had to move a couple of years ago. They are (still)
remodeling their new house. They are doing the work themselves.
I haven't ordered a stock design from PB&F for several years, but when I
did, the plans came to me with alacrity and dispatch. I haven't heard
anyone say, "I ordered some plans for Phil's design number XYZ and I
haven't heard anything from PB&F for a whole week." Of course I may have
missed this thread. My impression from talking to Phil and Susanne and
accompanying them on a drive to the Post Office is that every order goes
out the day it is received.
Currently the crisis that is occupying way too much of their time and
keeping them away from drawing boards, HTML, remodeling projects, their
own boats and having fun is the very real threat by the Registered
Professional Engineers to make it impossible for Phil to design another
boat.
Perhaps we should fax PB&F and ask how we can help keep boat design open
to people with talent who didn't get an engineering degree nor pass a
Professional Engineer exam. (One way we can help is to write our state
legislators and governors to say that requiring boat designers to be
registered professional engineers is a BAD IDEA.
So, PB&F is busy. PB&F plans and hopes to get a very good web page up
"real soon now." (Real soon now is code in the computer world for "we're
working on it but don't know when it will really get done.") PB&F will
sell and deliver to you a nice set of plans pretty much right now, just
mail the check. If you want Phil to design you a boat, you have a better
chance of getting it accepted if it is interested.
I don't presume to speak for PB&F but I can report on what I've seen.
Phil Smith
>The cost of Loose Moose 2 ( for us ) was on theI think this is the essence of the problem, PCB&F make their rent
> order of $5000. The stock plan price I believe is a few hundred....
> goes. Either way the plans were/are a bargain!
money from custom design. They like the boats that amateurs want, and
like most of the amateurs, but its not much of an economic propsition
for them.
Peter
Hi,
Hope I didn't offend anybody with my earlier tirade!
Anyway, let's all remember that Phil is 74 (I think?) - an age when
most of us are putting our feet up, NOT learning HTML. Paul Fisher
is about half that age, and I don't know about Jim Michalak, but I
guess he's a relative youngster, too.
Ideally, his books would form the bulk of his catalogue, but the
publishers saw fit to let them slip out of print - a fact that
saddens most of us, I guess.
The good news is that they can be borrowed from libraries, so we can
get to read them, albeit for a limited time. In years to come, once
they're out of copyright, no doubt they'll be available for all to
read on the web. I doubt if I'll live to see that day, though.
So why can't we just be happy with all he's given us over the years?
It's a tremendous legacy.
Bill
Hope I didn't offend anybody with my earlier tirade!
Anyway, let's all remember that Phil is 74 (I think?) - an age when
most of us are putting our feet up, NOT learning HTML. Paul Fisher
is about half that age, and I don't know about Jim Michalak, but I
guess he's a relative youngster, too.
Ideally, his books would form the bulk of his catalogue, but the
publishers saw fit to let them slip out of print - a fact that
saddens most of us, I guess.
The good news is that they can be borrowed from libraries, so we can
get to read them, albeit for a limited time. In years to come, once
they're out of copyright, no doubt they'll be available for all to
read on the web. I doubt if I'll live to see that day, though.
So why can't we just be happy with all he's given us over the years?
It's a tremendous legacy.
Bill
It has always amazed me that a person can even make a living selling
plans for amatuer built boats. The plans don't sell for much and I
have a hard time imagining there is much in the way of sales volume.
Mike
plans for amatuer built boats. The plans don't sell for much and I
have a hard time imagining there is much in the way of sales volume.
Mike
I've mostly been lurking around here, but after reading some of the
posts re "tears in paradise" I decided to throw in my two cents.
I recently purchased a set of plans from Paul Fisher at Selway-Fisher
in England. Don't know how much "help" he's got over there, but he
answered my queries by e-mail himself, took a credit card via e-mail,
and literally had the plans in the mail the next morning.
Fisher has a web site with I believe upwards of two hundred designs
posted. You can peruse his entire design catalog in your pajamas at
2 a.m. (And look at Jim Mikalak, who's got to be more of a "mom and
pop" operation than PCB&f.)
By comparison, only a small fraction of Bolger's designs are readily
accessible for review. Most are tucked away in old magazine articles
and out-of-print books. I suspect that most people who are
interested in his boats have ever only seen a few dozen of his
designs. That's really a shame.
Yes, it would take some work to put a large chunk of PCB's designs
online, but I have no doubt that PCB&f could easily find competent
people who would do the work for boat plans rather than cash (and
perhaps even volunteers). And once a site was created, it would not
really be that much work or expense to maintain it.
posts re "tears in paradise" I decided to throw in my two cents.
I recently purchased a set of plans from Paul Fisher at Selway-Fisher
in England. Don't know how much "help" he's got over there, but he
answered my queries by e-mail himself, took a credit card via e-mail,
and literally had the plans in the mail the next morning.
Fisher has a web site with I believe upwards of two hundred designs
posted. You can peruse his entire design catalog in your pajamas at
2 a.m. (And look at Jim Mikalak, who's got to be more of a "mom and
pop" operation than PCB&f.)
By comparison, only a small fraction of Bolger's designs are readily
accessible for review. Most are tucked away in old magazine articles
and out-of-print books. I suspect that most people who are
interested in his boats have ever only seen a few dozen of his
designs. That's really a shame.
Yes, it would take some work to put a large chunk of PCB's designs
online, but I have no doubt that PCB&f could easily find competent
people who would do the work for boat plans rather than cash (and
perhaps even volunteers). And once a site was created, it would not
really be that much work or expense to maintain it.
One can make money at selling stock plans...you have to keep in mind that
the plans were all designed for someone and that someone paid to have the
plans drawn for him or her. The cost of Loose Moose 2 ( for us ) was on the
order of $5000. The stock plan price I believe is a few hundred....So it
goes. Either way the plans were/are a bargain!
Bob & Sheila
Paradise Connections
St Thomas US Virgin Islands
http://www.paradiseconnections.com
-
the plans were all designed for someone and that someone paid to have the
plans drawn for him or her. The cost of Loose Moose 2 ( for us ) was on the
order of $5000. The stock plan price I believe is a few hundred....So it
goes. Either way the plans were/are a bargain!
Bob & Sheila
Paradise Connections
St Thomas US Virgin Islands
http://www.paradiseconnections.com
-
----- Original Message -----
From: <mike_vacanti@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 3:41 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: access to bolger's plans (was tears in paradise)
> It has always amazed me that a person can even make a living selling
> plans for amatuer built boats. The plans don't sell for much and I
> have a hard time imagining there is much in the way of sales volume.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
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>
>
>