RE: [bolger] Re: Tenn. Update ( P. L. Premium glue)

As far as heating PL Premium, I just soak the squeeze bottle in a sink full
of hot water. Make sure the bottle is sealed tight. Flows fine.
Sanding....has not been a real problem for me.
Jim C

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hal Lynch [mailto:hal@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 12:04 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Tenn. Update ( P. L. Premium glue)
>
>
> >
> > I would add that this was last November in my unheated
> >garage- if the glue was hot, it might compress and spread
> >easier.
>
> Last fall when I was laminating the strips for the rub rails on
> my Teal it took two men and a boy to squeeze PL Prem. out of the
> bottle. A little heat and it thinned right out. Went on smooth
> and thin. Admittedly the rub rails were narrow and I used a lot
> of clamps and screws, but the joint is hard to see.
>
> > Also, make sure you clean up any P. L. that squeezes out
> >of the joint, as it is hard to sand once cured, and also
> >bubbles up.
>
> Strongly agree on all counts.
>
> hal
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

>
> I would add that this was last November in my unheated
>garage- if the glue was hot, it might compress and spread
>easier.

Last fall when I was laminating the strips for the rub rails on
my Teal it took two men and a boy to squeeze PL Prem. out of the
bottle. A little heat and it thinned right out. Went on smooth
and thin. Admittedly the rub rails were narrow and I used a lot
of clamps and screws, but the joint is hard to see.

> Also, make sure you clean up any P. L. that squeezes out
>of the joint, as it is hard to sand once cured, and also
>bubbles up.

Strongly agree on all counts.

hal

> Two weeks ago I slathered some PL glue on both sides of the middle

of a

> quarter inch plywood plank shaped for the rudder of my piccup pram
> project. I then sandwiched the inner plank with the two outside

planks,

> laid them on the bench, put a full gallon can of paint on top and

let

> them sit overnight. The weight wasn't enough. the bubbling action

of

> the glue lifted the planks away from one another, creating voids

between

> them.

That alone will stop me from doing it. I hadn't thought of the
bubbling action lifting the panels. Epoxy it is!

Thanks for the info, probably saved me some headaches.

I'm only using PL Premium glue where it's going to be encased in
epoxy or backed up with epoxy and/or fasteners. I sure like working
with the stuff compared to epoxy but nothing beats epoxy for security!

Jeff

Jeff, Max, and Sam - not sure if you are all talking about PL Premium
Construction Adhesive (caulking tube) or the liquid PL Premium glue
(similar to Gorilla Glue)? I agree that the PL Construction Adhesive might
not be the best for laminating whole panels. A notched trowel helps get it
spread thin and evenly, but its still pretty thick so you need a lot of
clamping pressure. And I think it would start to kick on you before a
whole panel was fastened home. Buehler talks about using asphalt-based
roofing tar for a low-cost solution. With plenty of fasteners I suspect
that would work quite well for panel lamination. Epoxy would certainly buy
peace of mind though.

--Fritz

----------------
Fritz Funk
Email:fritzf@...
Phone: (H): (907)780-4261 (W):(907)465-6113
Snail: P.O. 6017 Sunset Street, Juneau, AK 99801-9728
My Boat Page:http://www.alaska.net/~fritzf/Boats/Boats.htm
(Current Project: Sneakeasy, a Phil Bolger Power Sharpie)
B-24 Aircrew "Roger the Lodger":http://www.alaska.net/~fritzf/B24/

>


>
> I'm not advocating PL glue by any means but found it to be easy to
> work with and very strong. Being backed up with epoxy, fillets, and
> glass it will be fine. It sure made assembly easier than fidgeting
> with epoxy.
>
> I wouldn't use it for high stress areas with minimal surface area

but

> I'm tempted to use it to laminate the two bottom layers of 1/2 ply
> together using lot's of screws. It would be cheaper and the way it
> foams and holds it should be just fine. Any ideas out there with

out

> opening up a can of worms?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jeff

Good evening:

Other than the bulkheads, on which I used weldwood powder,
virtually every other joint in my AF4 has P. L. preminum in
them. I also used lots of screws.

I tried to laminate plywood with P. L. for the transom,
but when I cut out the opening for the outboard, I found that
the P. L., being so thick, had not compressed much and left
lots of voids. I built a new transom with weldwood and lots
more screws.

I also tried P. L. on the forward bottom panel butt
splice and had trouble drawing the butt strap down flush to
the panel.

I would add that this was last November in my unheated
garage- if the glue was hot, it might compress and spread
easier.

Also, make sure you clean up any P. L. that squeezes out
of the joint, as it is hard to sand once cured, and also
bubbles up.

It did make nice scarf joints in the chines and gunnels.


Max

I've used PL Premium in a lot of places on my AF4 currently under
construction. While I think it will be OK for a lot of uses, I did not use
it anywhere below the waterline. Anywhere that will see immersion got 3M
5200. Everything was also liberally nailed with ring nails or bronze screws.
I have also sheathed the chines with 9 oz. glass tape set in epoxy.

I will use and have successfully used epoxy without any other fasteners, but
I'm not ready to risk my family on something else without backing it up with
some type of mechanical connection. The only polyurethane I've seen that
touts it can replace mechanical fasteners is one of the Sika products, 292
maybe? It is not cheap at $14/tube.

For laminating the bottom of your Tennessee, the better suggestion would be
to go with epoxy thickened a bit with cotton flock. You won't regret it
later.

JB in Kennesaw <><
On my way to North Bay, Ontario for the rest of the week....

----- Original Message -----
From: <jeff@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 12:50 PM
Subject: [bolger] Tenn. Update


| I managed to get the sides attached to the bulkheads and the chine
| logs attached this weekend. Of course this is just 1/2 the boat but
| in a 20' garage, it looks BIG!
|
| Being square built, I carefully made sure all bulkheads were square
| using several ways, I.E. framing square, sheet rock square, and cross
| measurements. The sides where cut out at the same time so where
| exactly alike and marked for bulkheads exactly the same.
|
| After drawing a center line on each bulkhead, I pulled a piece of
| twine taut to make sure they where aligned. Being square built,
| regardless of the floor, she should go together straight. I supported
| it on only four points and used shims to support it during curing.
| It does check with a water level in all directions.
|
| Anything I may be missing before I proceed with the bottom decking?
|
| I tried taking pictures but the garage was dark this weekend due to
| heavy overcast, lot's of shade trees, etc. I'll try and get some
| light enough to post.
|
| BTW, I used PL glue on the chine logs and bulkheads, then followed up
| with epoxy fillets and 3" glass tape on both sides of the bulkheads.
| With the two 1/2 bottom plys overlapping the chine logs to be rounded
| then epoxy and glassed and the top sides of the chine logs to receive
| a nice deep fillet.
|
| I'm not advocating PL glue by any means but found it to be easy to
| work with and very strong. Being backed up with epoxy, fillets, and
| glass it will be fine. It sure made assembly easier than fidgeting
| with epoxy.
|
| I wouldn't use it for high stress areas with minimal surface area but
| I'm tempted to use it to laminate the two bottom layers of 1/2 ply
| together using lot's of screws. It would be cheaper and the way it
| foams and holds it should be just fine. Any ideas out there with out
| opening up a can of worms?
|
| Thanks
|
| Jeff
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
| - no flogging dead horses
| - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
| - stay on topic and punctuate
| - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
| - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
|
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|

Jeff:

Two weeks ago I slathered some PL glue on both sides of the middle of a quarter inch plywood plank shaped for the rudder of my piccup pram project.  I then sandwiched the inner plank with the two outside planks, laid them on the bench, put a full gallon can of paint on top and let them sit overnight.  The weight wasn't enough.  the bubbling action of the glue lifted the planks away from one another, creating voids between them.  I'd would try a test patch before using PL to double plank a bottom.  Actually, I probably wouldn't use PL.  Best of luck with your building.  I have dreams of building a Tennessee and taking it down the the Tombigbee to Mobile some day.  I'm in Denver.  If you need assistance turning the hull, drop me a line and I will see if I can get away.

Sam Betty

jeff@... wrote:

I managed to get the sides attached to the bulkheads and the chine
logs attached this weekend.  Of course this is just 1/2 the boat but
in a 20' garage, it looks BIG!

Being square built, I carefully made sure all bulkheads were square
using several ways, I.E. framing square, sheet rock square, and cross
measurements.  The sides where cut out at the same time so where
exactly alike and marked for bulkheads exactly the same.

After drawing a center line on each bulkhead, I pulled a piece of
twine taut to make sure they where aligned.  Being square built,
regardless of the floor, she should go together straight. I supported
it on only four points and used shims to support it during curing.
It does check with a water level in all directions.

Anything I may be missing before I proceed with the bottom decking?

I tried taking pictures but the garage was dark this weekend due to
heavy overcast, lot's of shade trees, etc.  I'll try and get some
light enough to post.

BTW, I used PL glue on the chine logs and bulkheads, then followed up
with epoxy fillets and 3" glass tape on both sides of the bulkheads.
With the two 1/2 bottom plys overlapping the chine logs to be rounded
then epoxy and glassed and the top sides of the chine logs to receive
a nice deep fillet.

I'm not advocating PL glue by any means but found it to be easy to
work with and very strong.  Being backed up with epoxy, fillets, and
glass it will be fine.  It sure made assembly easier than fidgeting
with epoxy.

I wouldn't use it for high stress areas with minimal surface area but
I'm tempted to use it to laminate the two bottom layers of 1/2 ply
together using lot's of screws.  It would be cheaper and the way it
foams and holds it should be just fine.  Any ideas out there with out
opening up a can of worms?

Thanks

Jeff
 

Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.

I managed to get the sides attached to the bulkheads and the chine
logs attached this weekend. Of course this is just 1/2 the boat but
in a 20' garage, it looks BIG!

Being square built, I carefully made sure all bulkheads were square
using several ways, I.E. framing square, sheet rock square, and cross
measurements. The sides where cut out at the same time so where
exactly alike and marked for bulkheads exactly the same.

After drawing a center line on each bulkhead, I pulled a piece of
twine taut to make sure they where aligned. Being square built,
regardless of the floor, she should go together straight. I supported
it on only four points and used shims to support it during curing.
It does check with a water level in all directions.

Anything I may be missing before I proceed with the bottom decking?

I tried taking pictures but the garage was dark this weekend due to
heavy overcast, lot's of shade trees, etc. I'll try and get some
light enough to post.

BTW, I used PL glue on the chine logs and bulkheads, then followed up
with epoxy fillets and 3" glass tape on both sides of the bulkheads.
With the two 1/2 bottom plys overlapping the chine logs to be rounded
then epoxy and glassed and the top sides of the chine logs to receive
a nice deep fillet.

I'm not advocating PL glue by any means but found it to be easy to
work with and very strong. Being backed up with epoxy, fillets, and
glass it will be fine. It sure made assembly easier than fidgeting
with epoxy.

I wouldn't use it for high stress areas with minimal surface area but
I'm tempted to use it to laminate the two bottom layers of 1/2 ply
together using lot's of screws. It would be cheaper and the way it
foams and holds it should be just fine. Any ideas out there with out
opening up a can of worms?

Thanks

Jeff