Re: Gypsy questions

I'll second a couple of Keith's ideas here. Thicker, stronger
bulkheads would have been nice. I had to use zip ties to hold mine
together and the bulkheads are under enough stress to cause them to
buckle a bit and require additional framing. Keith is also right
about the bilge panels. Mine didn't fit quite as well as I had hoped
and I ended up marking and recutting them in just the manner Keith
suggested.


Roger S

--- In bolger@y..., kwilson800@a... wrote:
> Check out a previous post on polyester resin chemistry and the
> difference between layup and finishing resin in message #12172 -
It's
> important to understand this, since Dynamite Payson doesn't explain
> it in the book.
>
> Several suggestions about Gypsy, based on my experience:
> - It doesn't matter which side the daggerboard is on. It's off-
> center so that it'll clear the mast as you pull it out.
> - Two suppliers I have hound very helpful are Jamestown
Distributors
> and Hamilton Marine, see
>http://www.jamestowndistributors.comand
>http://www.hamiltonmarine.com/
> Hamilton is a little quicker and more reliable, but you can't order
> online.
> - It's really best to fasten the 4x8 sheets together before cutting
> out the panels. As folks have said, small errors in alignment
could
> cause big problems later.
> - If you're going to row the boat at all, put on a skeg (see
> Cartopper for an idea). Otherwise, it's surprisingly hard to make
> her go in a straight line.
> - If I were to build another one, I'd use 1/2" or even 3/4" ply
for
> the frames, then cut them way down. When first assembling the
hull,
> it's MUCH easier to fasten the hull panels to the frames if the
> frames are thicker.
> - I might not bother to lay out the shapes of the bilge panels
> accurately. I think it would be easier to just cut them oversize,
> lay them on the hull once the bottom and sheerstrakes are in place,
> trace the shape from inside and cut them to fit.
>
> Anyway, have fun. Gypsy was the first boat I built, 12 years ago,
and
> I often wish I still had her. That design is what I always use to
> refute those who say that taped-seam boats (or Bolger's small and
> simple boats) have to be ugly. She'll enhance the schenery
wherever
> you sail her.
>
> Keith Wilson
>
> --- In bolger@y..., jstytle@j... wrote:
> > I have been studying the plans for Gypsy for several months now --

> > and I think I am ready to jump into full-size construction. .

>I have been studying the plans for Gypsy for several months now -- from
>Build the New Instant Boats and a set I purchased. I built a cardboard
>model and I think I am ready to jump into full-size construction.
>However, I have no experience working with wood, fiberglass, power saws,
>hammers, etc. So, I will probably have some questions about the most
>basic of procedures. Right now I have a few:

Last night I had the pleasure of showing off pictures of the LSME to
the Coast Guard officer who checked their incident report data base
to see if my February adventure in Lake Montauk had become a part of
the permanent record. (It hadn't.)

The point is, he was *very* impressed with the boat and assumed I
must be some sort of master craftsman. I told him that I started the
project with little or no experience with wood, saws, fiberglass etc.
He didn't believe me, and neither will the people who see you out
enjoying your gypsy.

Welcome aboard, James. You're gonna love it!

YIBB,

David


CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296

Check out a previous post on polyester resin chemistry and the
difference between layup and finishing resin in message #12172 - It's
important to understand this, since Dynamite Payson doesn't explain
it in the book.

Several suggestions about Gypsy, based on my experience:
- It doesn't matter which side the daggerboard is on. It's off-
center so that it'll clear the mast as you pull it out.
- Two suppliers I have hound very helpful are Jamestown Distributors
and Hamilton Marine, see
http://www.jamestowndistributors.comand
http://www.hamiltonmarine.com/
Hamilton is a little quicker and more reliable, but you can't order
online.
- It's really best to fasten the 4x8 sheets together before cutting
out the panels. As folks have said, small errors in alignment could
cause big problems later.
- If you're going to row the boat at all, put on a skeg (see
Cartopper for an idea). Otherwise, it's surprisingly hard to make
her go in a straight line.
- If I were to build another one, I'd use 1/2" or even 3/4" ply for
the frames, then cut them way down. When first assembling the hull,
it's MUCH easier to fasten the hull panels to the frames if the
frames are thicker.
- I might not bother to lay out the shapes of the bilge panels
accurately. I think it would be easier to just cut them oversize,
lay them on the hull once the bottom and sheerstrakes are in place,
trace the shape from inside and cut them to fit.

Anyway, have fun. Gypsy was the first boat I built, 12 years ago, and
I often wish I still had her. That design is what I always use to
refute those who say that taped-seam boats (or Bolger's small and
simple boats) have to be ugly. She'll enhance the schenery wherever
you sail her.

Keith Wilson

--- In bolger@y..., jstytle@j... wrote:
> I have been studying the plans for Gypsy for several months now --
> and I think I am ready to jump into full-size construction. .

--- In bolger@y..., "Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco" <giuseppe.bianco@a...>
wrote:

> Based on my experience, however, I think it's better butting first
> and then cut. The problem is that the butt side is usually much
> shorter than the panel lenght, so a small tilt error in butting the
> two pieces can cause a significant difference at the ends of the
> resulting panel.

I totally agree. A very small gap created in one end of a splice
after cutting the pannels can be a disaster. I don't know the math
but I would guess that a 1/16th additional gap after cutting can
cause as much as a one inch difference in 7 feet. Of course that
depends on the width, etc.

One other suggestion is to splice both sides then lay together, (be
sure to align for mirror images) and add a couple screws so they
can't move. Then cut both at once. That way they will be identical.
Cut very slightly larger than the line marked and use a belt sander
to get it to the line. This will create a smoother more accurate
cut. I don't know about you, but I can't control a power saw good
enough to not get a slight wavey pattern in my cuts.

Of course, if you mess up measuring, you've just ruin both sides
rather than one, but measure twice, measure again, look at the plans,
check once more and cut!

Jeff

Here's the merton's link, written properly.

http://www.mertons.com

david wrote:

> James -
>
> I've not built a Gypsy, so can't comment on the specifics (though, I see no reason why, with careful
> layout and measuring, you can't cut the pieces of ply first, and then add the butt straps).
>
> I buy most of my boatbuilding glues, cloth and fasteners from Merton's. Nice folks. Good service.

<snip>

James, regarding butt straps, in principle you can do both ways, i.e.
butt first and then cut, or cut first and then butt.
Based on my experience, however, I think it's better butting first
and then cut. The problem is that the butt side is usually much
shorter than the panel lenght, so a small tilt error in butting the
two pieces can cause a significant difference at the ends of the
resulting panel.
If you decide to go with the "cut first" option, I would suggest to
double check everything, by measuring the distances between the
various cornes of the panels (e.g., bow sheer to transom sheer, bow
sheer to transom chine, etc.) and make sure that they're the same as
derive by the plans.
Good luck with your project, Pippo.

--- In bolger@y..., jstytle@j... wrote:
> 1) In the plans, the daggerboard is show off center to the left.
In the
> pictures in the book (pp. 40, 46, 48) it is off center to the
right. I
> thought that maybe the plywood sheets were marked, the pieces were
cut
> and flipped over, then buttstrapped. But, in the instructions, it
says
> to buttstrap then cut. What am I missing?

James -

I've not built a Gypsy, so can't comment on the specifics (though, I see no reason why, with careful
layout and measuring, you can't cut the pieces of ply first, and then add the butt straps).

I buy most of my boatbuilding glues, cloth and fasteners from Merton's. Nice folks. Good service.
They have System Three brand epoxy resin. Good stuff (comparable to any other name brand resin
system -- West , Raka, etc). They will happily sell you a pound of bronze ring nails, then sell a
barrell of them to the next customer.

http//:www.mertons.com

The "Bondo Resin" you are talking about is polyester resin. While there are those who have had good
luck using it (including Dynamite Payson), it is not formulated to be an adhesive. Without fanning
the flames of yet another polyester vs. epoxy debate (one of the largest debating topics in amateur
boatbuilding is the polyester vs. epoxy resin issue -- the other is marine ply vs. exterior ply vs.
luaun for small boats). IMO, the expense of using a good, epoxy resin is small for these small boats
and the benefits and ease of use are large.

Of course, if you are trying to get this boat out for the absolute minimum amount of $$, go ahead
and cut any corner you like. It's your boat.

David

jstytle@...wrote:

> This is my first post to the group.
>
> I have been studying the plans for Gypsy for several months now -- from
> Build the New Instant Boats and a set I purchased. I built a cardboard
> model and I think I am ready to jump into full-size construction.
> However, I have no experience working with wood, fiberglass, power saws,
> hammers, etc. So, I will probably have some questions about the most
> basic of procedures. Right now I have a few:
>
> 1) In the plans, the daggerboard is show off center to the left. In the
> pictures in the book (pp. 40, 46, 48) it is off center to the right. I
> thought that maybe the plywood sheets were marked, the pieces were cut
> and flipped over, then buttstrapped. But, in the instructions, it says
> to buttstrap then cut. What am I missing?
>
> 2) I am having trouble finding supplies -- 3" fiberglass tape, bronze
> nails, etc. Is there an on-line store with reasonable shipping rates? I
> have found Bondo fiberglass resin for $25 / gallon at three local stores.
> Has anybody had bad experiences with that brand?
>
> Thank you for your help.
>
> James Stytle, A.A.S., A.B.
> Crawfordsville, Indiana, USA
>jstytle@...
> Employed at Wernle, Ristine & Ayers, Crawfordsville, Indiana
>
> ________________________________________________________________
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>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

I'm in the middle of building my Gypsy, so I'll share my limited
experience.

I can't see where the daggerboard on the left or right would be
important. It might be less effective on one tack or another, but
any difference will be there anyway. Mine is on the port side, but I
thought I read the plans wrong when I looked at the picture of the
hull in Dynamite's book.

To keep from working a 4X16 sheet of plywood, I lined two sheets of
plywood up on 2X6s on sawhorses and nailed them down. I then drew
the panels onto the plywood, cut them out, and instead of butting
them, I taped them with with fiberglass and epoxy. I didn't want the
butt straps showing.

I used epoxy rather than polyester because it's supposed to be
stronger and more waterproof. It also smells better and I suspect
it's more forgiving.

I purchased my supplies from Raka athttp://www.raka.com
The prices are reasonable, and shipping is based on weight and not
inflated by handling charges. They must ship same day because I
always get my goods quickly. If you intend to give the interior a
good coating of resin get at least 2 gallons.

Roger S

--- In bolger@y..., jstytle@j... wrote:
> This is my first post to the group.
>
> I have been studying the plans for Gypsy for several months now --
from
> Build the New Instant Boats and a set I purchased. I built a
cardboard
> model and I think I am ready to jump into full-size construction.
> However, I have no experience working with wood, fiberglass, power
saws,
> hammers, etc. So, I will probably have some questions about the
most
> basic of procedures. Right now I have a few:
>
> 1) In the plans, the daggerboard is show off center to the left.
In the
> pictures in the book (pp. 40, 46, 48) it is off center to the
right. I
> thought that maybe the plywood sheets were marked, the pieces were
cut
> and flipped over, then buttstrapped. But, in the instructions, it
says
> to buttstrap then cut. What am I missing?
>
> 2) I am having trouble finding supplies -- 3" fiberglass tape,
bronze
> nails, etc. Is there an on-line store with reasonable shipping
rates? I
> have found Bondo fiberglass resin for $25 / gallon at three local
stores.
> Has anybody had bad experiences with that brand?
>
> Thank you for your help.
>
>
>
> James Stytle, A.A.S., A.B.
> Crawfordsville, Indiana, USA
> jstytle@j...
> Employed at Wernle, Ristine & Ayers, Crawfordsville, Indiana
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

This is my first post to the group.

I have been studying the plans for Gypsy for several months now -- from
Build the New Instant Boats and a set I purchased. I built a cardboard
model and I think I am ready to jump into full-size construction.
However, I have no experience working with wood, fiberglass, power saws,
hammers, etc. So, I will probably have some questions about the most
basic of procedures. Right now I have a few:

1) In the plans, the daggerboard is show off center to the left. In the
pictures in the book (pp. 40, 46, 48) it is off center to the right. I
thought that maybe the plywood sheets were marked, the pieces were cut
and flipped over, then buttstrapped. But, in the instructions, it says
to buttstrap then cut. What am I missing?

2) I am having trouble finding supplies -- 3" fiberglass tape, bronze
nails, etc. Is there an on-line store with reasonable shipping rates? I
have found Bondo fiberglass resin for $25 / gallon at three local stores.
Has anybody had bad experiences with that brand?

Thank you for your help.



James Stytle, A.A.S., A.B.
Crawfordsville, Indiana, USA
jstytle@...
Employed at Wernle, Ristine & Ayers, Crawfordsville, Indiana




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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