Re: Fairing
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Beach" <rbeach@b...> wrote:
with the paint under it. That may be ok. Kinda hokey though...
Do you want to sail or screw around with bondo?
I've never noticed that little dings detract much from my enjoyment
out on the water...
> I have already painted the boat and found a few spots that needsome
> filling. Do I have to remove the paint first or can I put Bondo orDepends: The bondo will probably fall off in a few days/weeks along
> epoxy with filler right over and sand it smooth?
with the paint under it. That may be ok. Kinda hokey though...
Do you want to sail or screw around with bondo?
I've never noticed that little dings detract much from my enjoyment
out on the water...
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Beach" <rbeach@b...> wrote:
worry about it when you feel you have to re-paint again. By then you
will have other dings and gouges to fix as well!
Have fun, Nels
> I have already painted the boat and found a few spots that needsome
> filling. Do I have to remove the paint first or can I put Bondo orIf they are not visible from 50 feet - just get out on the water and
> epoxy with filler right over and sand it smooth?
worry about it when you feel you have to re-paint again. By then you
will have other dings and gouges to fix as well!
Have fun, Nels
I have already painted the boat and found a few spots that need some
filling. Do I have to remove the paint first or can I put Bondo or
epoxy with filler right over and sand it smooth?
filling. Do I have to remove the paint first or can I put Bondo or
epoxy with filler right over and sand it smooth?
I found the following on a web site, sounds like
good stuff but I don't like the Formaldehyde thing. Guess I'll use my dust
mask tightly with it. I still like the properties when sanding but it's
and interesting material.
*******************************************
Phenol-Formaldehyde; "Phenolic" has a
unique set of properties such as superior strength-to-weight ratio, excellent
fire and heat resistance and a low smoke and toxicity rating when burned.
Applications include honeycomb filler, aerospace panels, marine engine bulkhead
panels, fire door cores, ablative materials, and railcar floors and walls.
*******************************************
----- Original Message -----From:Lincoln RossSent:Thursday, June 14, 2001 2:00 PMSubject:[bolger] Re: FairingPhenolic is phenolic. It's a kind of plastic or resin, I guess. You
can get "boards" made up of phenolic and a fabric reinforcement that
seem somewhat similar, perhaps softer, than glass and epoxy (i.e. pc
board material). Phenolic stinks when you sand a thick piece, tho I
think the phenolic microballoons don't stink when sanded.
--- In bolger@y..., jeff@g... wrote:
> My mistake, I wasn't aware that they where different. What are
they?
>
>snip
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "Lincoln Ross" <lincolnr@m...> wrote:
> > Phenolic is NOT glass. You can get either type of micro balloons.
> > Afraid I don't know whether it makes any difference in this case.
> > Probably not. The glass micro balloons look white.
> > --- In bolger@y..., jeff@g... wrote:
> > > Use Phenolic Micro-Ballons. snip
> > > but they do retain the waterproof properties of epoxy as they
are
> > non-
> > > absorbing glass beads, very, very, tiny beads. One other thing,
> > they
> > > mix up to a dark rust brown look, kind of ugly but nice to fair
> > > things out with. snip
Bolger rules!!!
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- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
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- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
Phenolic is phenolic. It's a kind of plastic or resin, I guess. You
can get "boards" made up of phenolic and a fabric reinforcement that
seem somewhat similar, perhaps softer, than glass and epoxy (i.e. pc
board material). Phenolic stinks when you sand a thick piece, tho I
think the phenolic microballoons don't stink when sanded.
can get "boards" made up of phenolic and a fabric reinforcement that
seem somewhat similar, perhaps softer, than glass and epoxy (i.e. pc
board material). Phenolic stinks when you sand a thick piece, tho I
think the phenolic microballoons don't stink when sanded.
--- In bolger@y..., jeff@g... wrote:
> My mistake, I wasn't aware that they where different. What are
they?
>
>snip
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "Lincoln Ross" <lincolnr@m...> wrote:
> > Phenolic is NOT glass. You can get either type of micro balloons.
> > Afraid I don't know whether it makes any difference in this case.
> > Probably not. The glass micro balloons look white.
> > --- In bolger@y..., jeff@g... wrote:
> > > Use Phenolic Micro-Ballons. snip
> > > but they do retain the waterproof properties of epoxy as they
are
> > non-
> > > absorbing glass beads, very, very, tiny beads. One other thing,
> > they
> > > mix up to a dark rust brown look, kind of ugly but nice to fair
> > > things out with. snip
My mistake, I wasn't aware that they where different. What are they?
I do like the results from them. I read the message 11606 and
glassing that way is the best no question about it. Most of the
epoxy manuals describe it done that way too.
On small boats it is economical but on larger boats you can waste a
lot of epoxy and it takes a lot of time. At least for me. I tend to
stretch the glass and anchor it with tape or staples. Then pour the
epoxy on and very slowly move it around with a flat scrapper. If you
do it slow enough in small areas I have not gotten a lot of air
bubbles. ( I also pre-coast and lightly sand the wood so it doesn't
absorb epoxy during this process.) As he mentioned, it doesn't create
a extremely smooth surface even after 2 or three coats, which is why
I lightly sand and use the trowel method to finish. I works for me
anyway.
I do like the results from them. I read the message 11606 and
glassing that way is the best no question about it. Most of the
epoxy manuals describe it done that way too.
On small boats it is economical but on larger boats you can waste a
lot of epoxy and it takes a lot of time. At least for me. I tend to
stretch the glass and anchor it with tape or staples. Then pour the
epoxy on and very slowly move it around with a flat scrapper. If you
do it slow enough in small areas I have not gotten a lot of air
bubbles. ( I also pre-coast and lightly sand the wood so it doesn't
absorb epoxy during this process.) As he mentioned, it doesn't create
a extremely smooth surface even after 2 or three coats, which is why
I lightly sand and use the trowel method to finish. I works for me
anyway.
--- In bolger@y..., "Lincoln Ross" <lincolnr@m...> wrote:
> Phenolic is NOT glass. You can get either type of micro balloons.
> Afraid I don't know whether it makes any difference in this case.
> Probably not. The glass micro balloons look white.
> --- In bolger@y..., jeff@g... wrote:
> > Use Phenolic Micro-Ballons. snip
> > but they do retain the waterproof properties of epoxy as they are
> non-
> > absorbing glass beads, very, very, tiny beads. One other thing,
> they
> > mix up to a dark rust brown look, kind of ugly but nice to fair
> > things out with. snip
> Always where a dust mask when sanding these as withNote also when handling any kind of fairing powders for mixing, or even
> any other epoxy mix.
handling dry fiberglass cloth, WEAR A DUST MASK! If you put a strong light
at the right angle, you'll be amazed how much potentially nasty airborne
stuff is produced by these processes....
Paul Lefebvre
Phenolic is NOT glass. You can get either type of micro balloons.
Afraid I don't know whether it makes any difference in this case.
Probably not. The glass micro balloons look white.
Afraid I don't know whether it makes any difference in this case.
Probably not. The glass micro balloons look white.
--- In bolger@y..., jeff@g... wrote:
> Use Phenolic Micro-Ballons. snip
> but they do retain the waterproof properties of epoxy as they are
non-
> absorbing glass beads, very, very, tiny beads. One other thing,
they
> mix up to a dark rust brown look, kind of ugly but nice to fair
> things out with. snip
--- In bolger@y..., jeff@g... wrote:
has a great post on fairing cloth/epoxy surfaces.
Vance
> Use Phenolic Micro-Ballons.Go to message number 11606 in this group. Paul Lefebure Jr.
has a great post on fairing cloth/epoxy surfaces.
Vance
Use Phenolic Micro-Ballons. They mix very smooth can be applied in a
thin layer, just like unthickened epoxy or in a thicker paste.
Thickened to a non-sagging mix it will sand a lot like "Bondo" but
still be epoxy.
I use a thickened mix applied with a finely slotted trowel, then sand
fair, refill the grooves with a straight trowel. Saves sanding time
and efforts in a big way.
Just don't use them for fillers where structural strength is required
but they do retain the waterproof properties of epoxy as they are non-
absorbing glass beads, very, very, tiny beads. One other thing, they
mix up to a dark rust brown look, kind of ugly but nice to fair
things out with. Always where a dust mask when sanding these as with
any other epoxy mix.
Jeff
thin layer, just like unthickened epoxy or in a thicker paste.
Thickened to a non-sagging mix it will sand a lot like "Bondo" but
still be epoxy.
I use a thickened mix applied with a finely slotted trowel, then sand
fair, refill the grooves with a straight trowel. Saves sanding time
and efforts in a big way.
Just don't use them for fillers where structural strength is required
but they do retain the waterproof properties of epoxy as they are non-
absorbing glass beads, very, very, tiny beads. One other thing, they
mix up to a dark rust brown look, kind of ugly but nice to fair
things out with. Always where a dust mask when sanding these as with
any other epoxy mix.
Jeff
--- In bolger@y..., "Orr, Jamie" <jorr@b...> wrote:
> Hi
>
> I have mostly used several epoxy coats -- applied thinly to avoid
sags and
> sanding.
>
> I have also tried adding a thickener, as recommended by Reuel
Parker in his
> boatbuilding book, with mixed results. I used a cabosil type of
filler as
> it mixes up very smooth, and put it on with a 10" wide flexible
plastering
> knife.
>
> It works nicely if you have the right consistency of thickened
epoxy, and
> if the temperature is close to 70 degrees Fahrenheit or 21
Celsius. If it's
> too cool or the mix is too thick, you've got a lot of sanding in
your future
> -- believe me on this! Err on the thin side, you can always add
some more
> thickener, and choose a warm day. When it works, it does a nice
job, but on
> the whole, I will probably stay with straight epoxy in future.
>
> Jamie Orr
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco [mailto:giuseppe.bianco@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 2:57 AM
> To: bolger@y...
> Subject: [bolger] Fairing
>
>
> Hi all - what's the best way to fair a plywood hull after
> fiberglassing? Do you think it's better to fill the cloth weave
with
> several epoxy coats, or perhaps fill it with epoxy/microspheres
putty
> and than sand over it?
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Hi
I have mostly used several epoxy coats -- applied thinly to avoid sags and
sanding.
I have also tried adding a thickener, as recommended by Reuel Parker in his
boatbuilding book, with mixed results. I used a cabosil type of filler as
it mixes up very smooth, and put it on with a 10" wide flexible plastering
knife.
It works nicely if you have the right consistency of thickened epoxy, and
if the temperature is close to 70 degrees Fahrenheit or 21 Celsius. If it's
too cool or the mix is too thick, you've got a lot of sanding in your future
-- believe me on this! Err on the thin side, you can always add some more
thickener, and choose a warm day. When it works, it does a nice job, but on
the whole, I will probably stay with straight epoxy in future.
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco [mailto:giuseppe.bianco@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 2:57 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Fairing
Hi all - what's the best way to fair a plywood hull after
fiberglassing? Do you think it's better to fill the cloth weave with
several epoxy coats, or perhaps fill it with epoxy/microspheres putty
and than sand over it?
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I have mostly used several epoxy coats -- applied thinly to avoid sags and
sanding.
I have also tried adding a thickener, as recommended by Reuel Parker in his
boatbuilding book, with mixed results. I used a cabosil type of filler as
it mixes up very smooth, and put it on with a 10" wide flexible plastering
knife.
It works nicely if you have the right consistency of thickened epoxy, and
if the temperature is close to 70 degrees Fahrenheit or 21 Celsius. If it's
too cool or the mix is too thick, you've got a lot of sanding in your future
-- believe me on this! Err on the thin side, you can always add some more
thickener, and choose a warm day. When it works, it does a nice job, but on
the whole, I will probably stay with straight epoxy in future.
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco [mailto:giuseppe.bianco@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 2:57 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Fairing
Hi all - what's the best way to fair a plywood hull after
fiberglassing? Do you think it's better to fill the cloth weave with
several epoxy coats, or perhaps fill it with epoxy/microspheres putty
and than sand over it?
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
hello giuseppe les huggardjohn.huggard@...i would fill the weave
first as the glass gets its strenght from it and then fair wilth your putty
mix
first as the glass gets its strenght from it and then fair wilth your putty
mix
----- Original Message -----
From: Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco <giuseppe.bianco@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 5:56 AM
Subject: [bolger] Fairing
> Hi all - what's the best way to fair a plywood hull after
> fiberglassing? Do you think it's better to fill the cloth weave with
> several epoxy coats, or perhaps fill it with epoxy/microspheres putty
> and than sand over it?
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Hi Pippo,
Take a look at messages 11636, 11555, 11556, 11576, which all deal
with obtaining a smooth epoxy surface.
Cheers,
randy
--- In bolger@y..., "Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco" <giuseppe.bianco@a...>
wrote:
Take a look at messages 11636, 11555, 11556, 11576, which all deal
with obtaining a smooth epoxy surface.
Cheers,
randy
--- In bolger@y..., "Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco" <giuseppe.bianco@a...>
wrote:
> Hi all - what's the best way to fair a plywood hull afterwith
> fiberglassing? Do you think it's better to fill the cloth weave
> several epoxy coats, or perhaps fill it with epoxy/microspheresputty
> and than sand over it?
Hi all - what's the best way to fair a plywood hull after
fiberglassing? Do you think it's better to fill the cloth weave with
several epoxy coats, or perhaps fill it with epoxy/microspheres putty
and than sand over it?
fiberglassing? Do you think it's better to fill the cloth weave with
several epoxy coats, or perhaps fill it with epoxy/microspheres putty
and than sand over it?