Re: Skillygallee
> There might have been a time when the strips were cheaper than thePCB wrote:
> equivalent quantity of ply.
The glued-strip, cross-planking is quicker and cheaper to build, and
will stand grinding on rough beaches better, than the double or
triple plywood that's the other obvious choice. It's apt to leak,
which is not needed at all in a boat with no bilge to speak of, and
there's the unpleasant possibiility that it will squeeze itself off
the chine amidships by swelling hard. By using soft, damp cdear with
the annual rings laid the right way, and by taking pains with the
glue and chine fastenings, we hope to the ghe advantages and avoid
the troubles.
There may be other, similar remarks in his writings about other
sharpies, e.g. Jesse Cooper.
Peter
Peter,
There might have been a time when the strips were cheaper than the
equivalent quantity of ply. That's probably not true today. Ply would
be stronger, more likely to remain watertight and take less work to
build. You would want to cover it with glass-epoxy, whereas you might
not feel the need to do this with strip construction.
look of Black Skimmer's leeboards (although I do).
Howard
> PCB seems to have changed his mind about strip planking the bottomswere the theoretical advantages of the strips.
> of flat bottomed boats. My guess is that he found builder like the
> idea of using several layers of ply better despite what he felt
There might have been a time when the strips were cheaper than the
equivalent quantity of ply. That's probably not true today. Ply would
be stronger, more likely to remain watertight and take less work to
build. You would want to cover it with glass-epoxy, whereas you might
not feel the need to do this with strip construction.
>Skilly is .... probably the better boat all around,To my eye, Skilly looks better. A lot of people would not like the
> except may esthetically.
look of Black Skimmer's leeboards (although I do).
Howard
> the bottom, cross-planked from 1 1/2" square strips,PCB seems to have changed his mind about strip planking the bottoms
of flat bottomed boats. My guess is that he found builder like the
idea of using several layers of ply better despite what he felt were
the theoretical advantages of the strips.
So, he'd probably be OK with changing from original bottom
construction.
It's worth remembering the capsule description of Silly: she's a
lengthened Black Skimmer. A little more room in side, a fair amount
more sailing length, and, I think, better flotation in a knockdown.
I saw a comment about 'Skimmer somewhere in which he suggested that
he now feels the aft freeboard is too low, (and it has not flotation
back there). Skilly is better. Probably the better boat all around,
except may esthetically.
Peter
Jason,
The hull is flat-bottomed, i.e.no deadrise. There is a large pivoting
centreboard, although not on the centreline but out to starboard
about half-way out between the centreline and the hull side. Apart
from the bottom, cross-planked from 1 1/2" square strips, there is
1000lb of lead ballast, in two flat castings that are curved when
installed to sit on the bottom planking inside the hull. Draft is
1'6"/5'3". Designed displacement is 5000lb.
PCB doesn't say whether she is self-righting. My guess is that she
would up to at least 90 degrees or so. According to Bolger, the owner
wanted "a beaching cruiser to use for a while in San Francisco Bay
and then trail to Lake Michigan..." So she is not designed as an
ocean cruiser.
Sorry, no access to a scanner. Full details are in PCB's "30-Odd
Boats".
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
The hull is flat-bottomed, i.e.no deadrise. There is a large pivoting
centreboard, although not on the centreline but out to starboard
about half-way out between the centreline and the hull side. Apart
from the bottom, cross-planked from 1 1/2" square strips, there is
1000lb of lead ballast, in two flat castings that are curved when
installed to sit on the bottom planking inside the hull. Draft is
1'6"/5'3". Designed displacement is 5000lb.
PCB doesn't say whether she is self-righting. My guess is that she
would up to at least 90 degrees or so. According to Bolger, the owner
wanted "a beaching cruiser to use for a while in San Francisco Bay
and then trail to Lake Michigan..." So she is not designed as an
ocean cruiser.
Sorry, no access to a scanner. Full details are in PCB's "30-Odd
Boats".
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
wrote:
> Yet another might be Skillygallee. Different water, differentdesigns.
> >What
> > Peter
>
> I've always thought sillygallee was a pretty boat, i love sharpie
> simplicity. But i've only seen the photos of the one in alaska.
> is below the waterline? Board, fin keel, full keel? Self righting?
> Anyone want to share a scan?
> Thanks,
> Jason
Yet
simplicity. But i've only seen the photos of the one in alaska. What
is below the waterline? Board, fin keel, full keel? Self righting?
Anyone want to share a scan?
Thanks,
Jason
> another might be Skillygallee. Different water, different designs.I've always thought sillygallee was a pretty boat, i love sharpie
>
> Peter
simplicity. But i've only seen the photos of the one in alaska. What
is below the waterline? Board, fin keel, full keel? Self righting?
Anyone want to share a scan?
Thanks,
Jason
> Does not sound like what I am dreaming of.Given the diversity of PCB's thinking, it's sometimes interesting to
pick out which designs were made for similar specifications. One of
the closest to the Newfoundlander is Bright Thread. BT is shorter,
fatter, shoaler, has a centerboard and a much different rig. Yet
another might be Skillygallee. Different water, different designs.
Peter
Hi peter,
Thanks for the info. Does not sound like what I am dreaming of.
Rob B
Thanks for the info. Does not sound like what I am dreaming of.
Rob B
----- Original Message -----
From: pvanderwaart
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 10:19 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Newfoundlander
> That looks an interesting boat.
> What can you tell me about it and have any been built.
I only know what is in MWAOM. It was built in Trinity, Newfoundland
as a single-hander for use on the Bay of Exploits. She's carvel
planked over sawn frames. The interior is very basic, showing 5 pipe
berths and a coal stove. For my use in warmer climes, I would delete
the coal stove, which would allow a more symmetric interior
arrangement.
Leading dimensions are 29' x 8'3" x 3' 6". The hull form is round
bilge with a rather sharp turn and substantial deadrise (V-shape).
The "jib" in the drawing is only for off-wind work. She's a cat with
spinnaker, not a sloop.
There is a picture in the book of the boat on land. She looks a
little dowdy, actually. I don't care for the up-sweep of the raised
deck. I think PCB can do better.
The strange 4-sided shape over the hatchway is supposed to be a sort
of sliding hood/hatch. That is supposed to give better visiblity from
below with the hatch close, I think. It may also be the only spot in
the cabin with full standing headroom.
I like this idea a lot, though in truth, if I were to invest in a
catboat, it would have to be more like the Cape Code model so that
the Catboat Association people wouldn't complain that I had an unfair
advantage on the windward legs.
Peter
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> That looks an interesting boat.I only know what is in MWAOM. It was built in Trinity, Newfoundland
> What can you tell me about it and have any been built.
as a single-hander for use on the Bay of Exploits. She's carvel
planked over sawn frames. The interior is very basic, showing 5 pipe
berths and a coal stove. For my use in warmer climes, I would delete
the coal stove, which would allow a more symmetric interior
arrangement.
Leading dimensions are 29' x 8'3" x 3' 6". The hull form is round
bilge with a rather sharp turn and substantial deadrise (V-shape).
The "jib" in the drawing is only for off-wind work. She's a cat with
spinnaker, not a sloop.
There is a picture in the book of the boat on land. She looks a
little dowdy, actually. I don't care for the up-sweep of the raised
deck. I think PCB can do better.
The strange 4-sided shape over the hatchway is supposed to be a sort
of sliding hood/hatch. That is supposed to give better visiblity from
below with the hatch close, I think. It may also be the only spot in
the cabin with full standing headroom.
I like this idea a lot, though in truth, if I were to invest in a
catboat, it would have to be more like the Cape Code model so that
the Catboat Association people wouldn't complain that I had an unfair
advantage on the windward legs.
Peter
Peter,
That looks an interesting boat. What can you tell me about it and have any been built.
Rob B
That looks an interesting boat. What can you tell me about it and have any been built.
Rob B
----- Original Message -----
From: pvanderwaart
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 12:55 AM
Subject: [bolger] Newfoundlander
A week or so ago, I tried to scan the Newfoundlander catboat(MWAOM)
for some discussion that was going on then, but my scanner wouldn't
scan. Today it worked. The scan is in the Files secton fo the group
bolger4photos (not to be confused with the photos section of the grop
Bolger4).
http://tinyurl.com/65e9u
Peter
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
A week or so ago, I tried to scan the Newfoundlander catboat(MWAOM)
for some discussion that was going on then, but my scanner wouldn't
scan. Today it worked. The scan is in the Files secton fo the group
bolger4photos (not to be confused with the photos section of the grop
Bolger4).
http://tinyurl.com/65e9u
Peter
for some discussion that was going on then, but my scanner wouldn't
scan. Today it worked. The scan is in the Files secton fo the group
bolger4photos (not to be confused with the photos section of the grop
Bolger4).
http://tinyurl.com/65e9u
Peter
Just another comment: A usual sort of guide for the scale of weights
that a hull can stand is the pounds per inch immersion, i.e. what
weight does it take to put her one inch lower. This is easily
approximated by
ppi = length(ft) * beam(ft) * (1/12) * 0.6 * 64(lb/cu ft)
The (1/12) is one inch. The 64 is the weight of seawater. The 0.6 is
an approximation. The length and beam are for the waterline, not
overall.
So, if l=20, b=8, then ppi = 20*8*0.6*64/12 = 512 lbs.
PHV
that a hull can stand is the pounds per inch immersion, i.e. what
weight does it take to put her one inch lower. This is easily
approximated by
ppi = length(ft) * beam(ft) * (1/12) * 0.6 * 64(lb/cu ft)
The (1/12) is one inch. The 64 is the weight of seawater. The 0.6 is
an approximation. The length and beam are for the waterline, not
overall.
So, if l=20, b=8, then ppi = 20*8*0.6*64/12 = 512 lbs.
PHV
I don't have any knowledge about this boat other than the chapter in
BWAOM (which I do not have in front of me as I write), but here are
some general observations.
1) I believe that the boat was designed as daysailor, so the
accomodation was left minimal. Most keelboats can handle stores/gear
approximately equal to 15% of displacement. I think that would apply
here. For my part, I would have no need of the coal stove or bin, and
would prefer a more symmetrical cabin arrangement. The berths, as in
most of PCB's boats, are very narrow; not good for the older aching
back. The weight saved by using a lighter modern stove would be
considerable, not to mention eliminating it altogether. (Be careful
about carbon monoxide!!! I would have a CO monitor/alarm in any boat
with a heater.)
Keep in mind that it really is not a very big boat being about the
size of a Cape Dory 25. If she were mine and I was interested in
cruising, I would think in terms of a) installing an unpainted
ceiling to promote ventilation between the frames, b) two settee
berths with bins under (drawers if you are ambitious), c) eliminating
the coal stove, d) other storage as seems appropriate, and e)leaving
most of the bow area empty. I would draw up what I had in mind and
pass it past PCB before starting construction. This sort of interior
is pretty much along the lines of his preferences, so I doubt that
there would be a problem.
2) I don't really know anything about carvel construction but it
seems like a fairly uncomplicated hull for a first attempt. The bow
sections are quite gentle so the planking should have a easy sweep.
The topsides and bottom are fairly flat, so there would be mostly the
turn of the bilge to worry about with respect to putting hollow in
the back of the planks. Being ignorant, I would get the best advice I
could about how to lay out the planking.
There will be the usual problems with tapered planks, etc. to adjust
for the mid-girth being larger than the girth fore and aft, but I
think that is true of all boats.
I noted that in the text he said the boat was designed for nailed
construction, but on the plans it calls for screws. Probably he
designed it the way he thought best in full knowledge that the
builder, a well established boatyard, would build it another way.
I think that this would be an ideal boat for the retired sailor who
goes sailing everyday from 10am to noon, or for a 1-2 person cruising
boat as long as a couple of weeks for shortish distances on a relaxed
schedule.
Finally, have you looked up the locations of her home waters and of
the builder on a map. The commissioning cruise would have been a
great adventure.
Peter
BWAOM (which I do not have in front of me as I write), but here are
some general observations.
1) I believe that the boat was designed as daysailor, so the
accomodation was left minimal. Most keelboats can handle stores/gear
approximately equal to 15% of displacement. I think that would apply
here. For my part, I would have no need of the coal stove or bin, and
would prefer a more symmetrical cabin arrangement. The berths, as in
most of PCB's boats, are very narrow; not good for the older aching
back. The weight saved by using a lighter modern stove would be
considerable, not to mention eliminating it altogether. (Be careful
about carbon monoxide!!! I would have a CO monitor/alarm in any boat
with a heater.)
Keep in mind that it really is not a very big boat being about the
size of a Cape Dory 25. If she were mine and I was interested in
cruising, I would think in terms of a) installing an unpainted
ceiling to promote ventilation between the frames, b) two settee
berths with bins under (drawers if you are ambitious), c) eliminating
the coal stove, d) other storage as seems appropriate, and e)leaving
most of the bow area empty. I would draw up what I had in mind and
pass it past PCB before starting construction. This sort of interior
is pretty much along the lines of his preferences, so I doubt that
there would be a problem.
2) I don't really know anything about carvel construction but it
seems like a fairly uncomplicated hull for a first attempt. The bow
sections are quite gentle so the planking should have a easy sweep.
The topsides and bottom are fairly flat, so there would be mostly the
turn of the bilge to worry about with respect to putting hollow in
the back of the planks. Being ignorant, I would get the best advice I
could about how to lay out the planking.
There will be the usual problems with tapered planks, etc. to adjust
for the mid-girth being larger than the girth fore and aft, but I
think that is true of all boats.
I noted that in the text he said the boat was designed for nailed
construction, but on the plans it calls for screws. Probably he
designed it the way he thought best in full knowledge that the
builder, a well established boatyard, would build it another way.
I think that this would be an ideal boat for the retired sailor who
goes sailing everyday from 10am to noon, or for a 1-2 person cruising
boat as long as a couple of weeks for shortish distances on a relaxed
schedule.
Finally, have you looked up the locations of her home waters and of
the builder on a map. The commissioning cruise would have been a
great adventure.
Peter
To the group, but specifically to Peter V. I would like some more
info regarding the Newfoundlander, featured in BWAOM.
To be specific - what, if any, load or amount of stores can this
vessel take? The layout below is minimal to say the least, which
points to a huge saving in interior joinery - which weighs a lot.
What is frightening however is the lack of space devoted, apart from
30 gallons of fuel for the motor, to cruising stores - the two
transom berths are basically fixed, and there is a coal bin and
nothing more.
Peter, you seem to have an affectation for this vessel, perhaps you
could help me here? I am interested because I wish to expand my
skills into carvel planking and this is a good large boat to launch
into.
Chris B.
info regarding the Newfoundlander, featured in BWAOM.
To be specific - what, if any, load or amount of stores can this
vessel take? The layout below is minimal to say the least, which
points to a huge saving in interior joinery - which weighs a lot.
What is frightening however is the lack of space devoted, apart from
30 gallons of fuel for the motor, to cruising stores - the two
transom berths are basically fixed, and there is a coal bin and
nothing more.
Peter, you seem to have an affectation for this vessel, perhaps you
could help me here? I am interested because I wish to expand my
skills into carvel planking and this is a good large boat to launch
into.
Chris B.