[bolger] Re: Surf Ply
John --
Interior chine log = more wood working = more fun
Taped, filleted seams = more goop work = less fun
YIBB = Yours in Boat Building (but I like yours too)
FBBB = Fellow Bolger Boat Builders
YIBB,
David
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
Interior chine log = more wood working = more fun
Taped, filleted seams = more goop work = less fun
YIBB = Yours in Boat Building (but I like yours too)
FBBB = Fellow Bolger Boat Builders
YIBB,
David
>David, how about taped/filleted chine seams, especially if glassingCRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
>the whole bottom? Easier than interior chine logs or otherwise?
>YIBB
>John (who wonders if YIBB means 'Yours in Bolger Boating' and can't
>guess about FBBB)
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
>- no flogging dead horses
>- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>- stay on topic and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
the whole bottom? Easier than interior chine logs or otherwise?
YIBB
John (who wonders if YIBB means 'Yours in Bolger Boating' and can't
guess about FBBB)
>begin
> Yes, an inside chine a little trickier than an instant boat outside
> chine, but it pays big dividends when glassing. It was actually
> easier to glass the entire scooner than it was to tape the seams of
> the teal. I've already spent as much repainting the teal as I would
> have if I had just epoxy and glass sheathed the whole thing to
> with.David, how about taped/filleted chine seams, especially if glassing
the whole bottom? Easier than interior chine logs or otherwise?
YIBB
John (who wonders if YIBB means 'Yours in Bolger Boating' and can't
guess about FBBB)
FBBB --
My teal is 1/4 inch throughout, polyester and glass in the bottom.
My scooner is 1/4 on the topsides and half inch on the bottom, epoxy
and glass on the bottom and topside.
The scooner hull is superior in every way. Despite its considerably
larger size, it's a much stiffer. Exposed to as much (or more)
weather, the finish is nearly as good as the day I put it on; while
the topsides of the teal peal and check. The glass on the bottom of
the teal is well worn. The bottom of the scooner is missing a little
paint.
On the basis of those two boats I would (and will) build a surf (or
zephyr) as follows.
1/4 inch through out.
Inside chine to make glassing over the chine and up the topsides easier.
Epoxy (Raka is cheap enough) and glass on the bottom and topsides.
I believe (and perhaps one of you engineers out there can back me up)
that when you put ply and even just a little glass together, you get
a sort of "the whole is great than the sum of the parts" effect, i.e.
a composite material.
I'd bet that 1/4 with glass and epoxy is stiffer and lighter than 3/8
alone. Even if it isn't, the reduced maintenance is well worth it.
Yes, an inside chine a little trickier than an instant boat outside
chine, but it pays big dividends when glassing. It was actually
easier to glass the entire scooner than it was to tape the seams of
the teal. I've already spent as much repainting the teal as I would
have if I had just epoxy and glass sheathed the whole thing to begin
with.
Lastly, you've got to put glass in the resin. I thought I was making
my life easier by simply sealing the deck of the scooner with epoxy
and painting over it. It's checking nearly as badly as the teal's
polyester sealed topsides.
YIBB,
David
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
My teal is 1/4 inch throughout, polyester and glass in the bottom.
My scooner is 1/4 on the topsides and half inch on the bottom, epoxy
and glass on the bottom and topside.
The scooner hull is superior in every way. Despite its considerably
larger size, it's a much stiffer. Exposed to as much (or more)
weather, the finish is nearly as good as the day I put it on; while
the topsides of the teal peal and check. The glass on the bottom of
the teal is well worn. The bottom of the scooner is missing a little
paint.
On the basis of those two boats I would (and will) build a surf (or
zephyr) as follows.
1/4 inch through out.
Inside chine to make glassing over the chine and up the topsides easier.
Epoxy (Raka is cheap enough) and glass on the bottom and topsides.
I believe (and perhaps one of you engineers out there can back me up)
that when you put ply and even just a little glass together, you get
a sort of "the whole is great than the sum of the parts" effect, i.e.
a composite material.
I'd bet that 1/4 with glass and epoxy is stiffer and lighter than 3/8
alone. Even if it isn't, the reduced maintenance is well worth it.
Yes, an inside chine a little trickier than an instant boat outside
chine, but it pays big dividends when glassing. It was actually
easier to glass the entire scooner than it was to tape the seams of
the teal. I've already spent as much repainting the teal as I would
have if I had just epoxy and glass sheathed the whole thing to begin
with.
Lastly, you've got to put glass in the resin. I thought I was making
my life easier by simply sealing the deck of the scooner with epoxy
and painting over it. It's checking nearly as badly as the teal's
polyester sealed topsides.
YIBB,
David
>CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
>That might be worth considering, that compromise of 3/8 on the bottom
>and 1/4 on the sides. I think from that, rather than four sheets of
>1/4, two sheets of 3/8 and three of 1/4 would do it. I'll check the
>quality of the plywood available and then decide.
>
>With regard to Teal, I was going by Payson's book, Instant Boats, and
>I don't think 1/4 is mentioned there as an option.
>
>In answer to the question about cartopping, it might happen but only
>rarely. Mostly I will leave the Surf to settle on the mud at the dock
>(yet to be completed) or dolly it to the storage area under my deck.
>So an extra pound or three shouldn't make a significant difference.
>
>John
>
>--- In bolger@y..., kwilson800@a... wrote:
>> Both would work, IMHO. 1/4 would be cheaper and lighter, 3/8 would
>> be more resistant to bumps and abuse. How important is weight and
>> initial cost? - will you cartop it? Maybe 3/8 on the bottom and
>1/4
>> on the sides would be a good compromise, but then you'll have to
>buy
>> more sheets of plywood. Your call.
>>
>> BTW, every Teal I've ever seen was built with 1/4" ply. 3/8" would
>> produce the proverbial brick outhouse, although using 3/8" on the
>> bottom couldn't hurt.
>>
>> --- In bolger@y..., j.c.ewing@h... wrote:
>> > plans for the 12-ft. Teal seem to call
>> > for use of 3/8-inch plywood, while the 15.5-ft. Surf is to be
>built
>> > from 1/4-inch. . . .
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
>- no flogging dead horses
>- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>- stay on topic and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
That might be worth considering, that compromise of 3/8 on the bottom
and 1/4 on the sides. I think from that, rather than four sheets of
1/4, two sheets of 3/8 and three of 1/4 would do it. I'll check the
quality of the plywood available and then decide.
With regard to Teal, I was going by Payson's book, Instant Boats, and
I don't think 1/4 is mentioned there as an option.
In answer to the question about cartopping, it might happen but only
rarely. Mostly I will leave the Surf to settle on the mud at the dock
(yet to be completed) or dolly it to the storage area under my deck.
So an extra pound or three shouldn't make a significant difference.
John
and 1/4 on the sides. I think from that, rather than four sheets of
1/4, two sheets of 3/8 and three of 1/4 would do it. I'll check the
quality of the plywood available and then decide.
With regard to Teal, I was going by Payson's book, Instant Boats, and
I don't think 1/4 is mentioned there as an option.
In answer to the question about cartopping, it might happen but only
rarely. Mostly I will leave the Surf to settle on the mud at the dock
(yet to be completed) or dolly it to the storage area under my deck.
So an extra pound or three shouldn't make a significant difference.
John
--- In bolger@y..., kwilson800@a... wrote:
> Both would work, IMHO. 1/4 would be cheaper and lighter, 3/8 would
> be more resistant to bumps and abuse. How important is weight and
> initial cost? - will you cartop it? Maybe 3/8 on the bottom and
1/4
> on the sides would be a good compromise, but then you'll have to
buy
> more sheets of plywood. Your call.
>
> BTW, every Teal I've ever seen was built with 1/4" ply. 3/8" would
> produce the proverbial brick outhouse, although using 3/8" on the
> bottom couldn't hurt.
>
> --- In bolger@y..., j.c.ewing@h... wrote:
> > plans for the 12-ft. Teal seem to call
> > for use of 3/8-inch plywood, while the 15.5-ft. Surf is to be
built
> > from 1/4-inch. . . .
John, I just got my Teal plans this week and the plans indicate that
Teal can be built from either 3/8 or 1/4" ply.
Dennis
Teal can be built from either 3/8 or 1/4" ply.
Dennis
--- In bolger@y..., j.c.ewing@h... wrote:
> A quick question, group. PCB's plans for the 12-ft. Teal seem to
call
> for use of 3/8-inch plywood, while the 15.5-ft. Surf is to be built
> from 1/4-inch. Both have centre web frames but does Surf, despite
> being bigger, get away with lighter plywood because the hull is
> strengthened by two bulkheads that Teal lacks, effectively
shortening
> the unsupported distance? Although I don't really want to add
weight,
> is there any suggestion that Surf should be built of sturdier stuff?
> John
On Thu, 28 Jun 2001j.c.ewing@...wrote:
didn't seem to hurt the boat, and that he's heard that the 3/8 plywood
that you can buy is usually better than that 1/4 plywood available.
In short, the scantlings are not basedon stiffness or strength for Teal,
but other considerations, and 1/4 was certainly going to be fine enough.
I built mine from .20 (1/5") lauan, and it's plenty stiff and strong.
Chris Crandallcrandall@...(785) 864-4131
Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
> A quick question, group. PCB's plans for the 12-ft. Teal seem to callPCB says, in "Different Boats" that 3/8 is overdoing it, but that it
> for use of 3/8-inch plywood, while the 15.5-ft. Surf is to be built
> from 1/4-inch. Both have centre web frames but does Surf, despite
> being bigger, get away with lighter plywood because the hull is
> strengthened by two bulkheads that Teal lacks, effectively shortening
> the unsupported distance? Although I don't really want to add weight,
> is there any suggestion that Surf should be built of sturdier stuff?
didn't seem to hurt the boat, and that he's heard that the 3/8 plywood
that you can buy is usually better than that 1/4 plywood available.
In short, the scantlings are not basedon stiffness or strength for Teal,
but other considerations, and 1/4 was certainly going to be fine enough.
I built mine from .20 (1/5") lauan, and it's plenty stiff and strong.
Chris Crandallcrandall@...(785) 864-4131
Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
Both would work, IMHO. 1/4 would be cheaper and lighter, 3/8 would
be more resistant to bumps and abuse. How important is weight and
initial cost? - will you cartop it? Maybe 3/8 on the bottom and 1/4
on the sides would be a good compromise, but then you'll have to buy
more sheets of plywood. Your call.
BTW, every Teal I've ever seen was built with 1/4" ply. 3/8" would
produce the proverbial brick outhouse, although using 3/8" on the
bottom couldn't hurt.
be more resistant to bumps and abuse. How important is weight and
initial cost? - will you cartop it? Maybe 3/8 on the bottom and 1/4
on the sides would be a good compromise, but then you'll have to buy
more sheets of plywood. Your call.
BTW, every Teal I've ever seen was built with 1/4" ply. 3/8" would
produce the proverbial brick outhouse, although using 3/8" on the
bottom couldn't hurt.
--- In bolger@y..., j.c.ewing@h... wrote:
> plans for the 12-ft. Teal seem to call
> for use of 3/8-inch plywood, while the 15.5-ft. Surf is to be built
> from 1/4-inch. . . .
Hi John
On my plans for "Teal" Mr Bolger or Dynamite Payson have added a note
in the bill of materials "or 1/4" ". I used 1/4" 5 ply Luan MARINE
plywood for my "Teal" and it is solid. As to your question about
"Surf" I can't answer that but I'm ready to accept Mr Bolger's
scantlings.
Bob Chamberland
On my plans for "Teal" Mr Bolger or Dynamite Payson have added a note
in the bill of materials "or 1/4" ". I used 1/4" 5 ply Luan MARINE
plywood for my "Teal" and it is solid. As to your question about
"Surf" I can't answer that but I'm ready to accept Mr Bolger's
scantlings.
Bob Chamberland
--- In bolger@y..., j.c.ewing@h... wrote:
> A quick question, group. PCB's plans for the 12-ft. Teal seem to
call
> for use of 3/8-inch plywood, while the 15.5-ft. Surf is to be built
> from 1/4-inch. Both have centre web frames but does Surf, despite
> being bigger, get away with lighter plywood because the hull is
> strengthened by two bulkheads that Teal lacks, effectively
shortening
> the unsupported distance? Although I don't really want to add
weight,
> is there any suggestion that Surf should be built of sturdier stuff?
> John
I built a "Surf" out of 1/4" AC plywood- lousy
stuff- and it seemed plenty strong and rigid.
Bill Wallace in Texas
A quick question, group. PCB's plans for the 12-ft. Teal seem to call
stuff- and it seemed plenty strong and rigid.
Bill Wallace in Texas
A quick question, group. PCB's plans for the 12-ft. Teal seem to call
> for use of 3/8-inch plywood, while the 15.5-ft. Surf is to be built
> from 1/4-inch. Both have centre web frames but does Surf, despite
> being bigger, get away with lighter plywood because the hull is
> strengthened by two bulkheads that Teal lacks, effectively shortening
> the unsupported distance? Although I don't really want to add weight,
> is there any suggestion that Surf should be built of sturdier stuff?
> John
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
A quick question, group. PCB's plans for the 12-ft. Teal seem to call
for use of 3/8-inch plywood, while the 15.5-ft. Surf is to be built
from 1/4-inch. Both have centre web frames but does Surf, despite
being bigger, get away with lighter plywood because the hull is
strengthened by two bulkheads that Teal lacks, effectively shortening
the unsupported distance? Although I don't really want to add weight,
is there any suggestion that Surf should be built of sturdier stuff?
John
for use of 3/8-inch plywood, while the 15.5-ft. Surf is to be built
from 1/4-inch. Both have centre web frames but does Surf, despite
being bigger, get away with lighter plywood because the hull is
strengthened by two bulkheads that Teal lacks, effectively shortening
the unsupported distance? Although I don't really want to add weight,
is there any suggestion that Surf should be built of sturdier stuff?
John