[bolger] Leo's Junk rigged,leeboard AS-29
Dept. Free Will vs. Considered and Free Advice:
We thought we'd made the point ONE-on-ONE over the phone, when we
invested about 80 mins. of transatlantic phone-bills trying to save
your larger boat-building project from losing its integrity with
mid-stream changes such as the leeboard idea or from more planned
compromises such as the rig idea. We were this intensely interested
because we admire anyone in Germany to buck the whole boat-building
diaspora atmosphere and actually tackle an AS-29. We think this is
great. The man has guts. Since Susanne is German, further affinities
kick in to help out and we don't look at the clock much anymore - a
boat is at stake...
Recap:
LEEBOARDS:
You had proposed to change from the bilgeboard design on the plans to
leeboards instead.
- Unlike your statement on your site attributed to us, we like
leeboards in all dimensions from TV-dinner tray size-clip-ons for dinks
over WALRUS' 900lbs each UNballasted ice-going 'armor' to those on the
90' SIR JOSEPH BANKS trader and 126' PHOUMA research vessel. We have
used them more and more broadly than just about anybody drawing boats.
- Your reasons for alterations were stated as the need to 'save time to
get into the water sooner...'. We duly pointed out that properly-done
leeboards cannot be a 'fix' of some sort to merely be hung on to her
without significant conceptual, functional and structural consideration
and construction effort - ergo not a 'fix'. There was plenty of
opportunity to consider the leeboard-option just early enough in the
assembly process to actually allow an adequate geometry. From what we
understood at the time of your inquiry, you were past that point, with
changes still possible, if doable at all, but surely NOT as an exercise
of time savings anymore! Finally, as we told you, not every hull-shape
is suitable to carry leeboards with 'a straight face'.
CHINESE JUNK-RIG:
You had proposed a two-masted junk-rigged schooner geometry with about
10ft more sail-area than AS-29's stock rig. Reasons offered to us was
concern about dealing with her stock Gaff Cat-Yawl's 20' main boom.
Plus a hint at apparent unfamiliarity with safely reefing a gaff-rig -
understandable under the current triangular-dictate in training- and
charter-fleets.
- We responded that Phil's mild adventures in his 1960 leeboard POINTER
(33'LOA)included not only several generations of leeboard attachment
but also not having his hair parted the wrong way by that Cat-rig's
28'long boom - on a 5' wide hull-bottom and much lower to the water
than AS-29's boom could ever sag. In keeping with being quite radical
POINTER could be scary - Bolger testing the limits... - but in coastal
cruising she kept bringing him back.
AS-29's boom is not a wild proposal.
- And, most importantly, AS-29's Gaff Cat-Yawl rig is part of a rig and
hull combination that can account for reasonably high performance along
with balance. Having done a range of junk-rigs, we deemed a junk
schooner geometry would very likely 'tie her feet' in light of the
well-documented ill aerodynamics of the type, excacerbated here by the
schooner's generally inherent disadvantages in pointing over a single
main.
- You had read the HILL's fine account of cruising with such a
geometry. We like that book very well for the spirit it is written in.
And Phil has met the Hills and BADGER when they stopped by here in
Gloucester on the way to get that book published. In 3-D their
execution of her seemed about as shipshape and capable to weather nasty
stuff out there as anything in that size class. We just wished BADGER
could do without that keel to go the million places she can not go now,
do without that hull-shape that is intended for stacking multiples of
on a Gloucester fishing-schooner's deck off to the Grand Banks, and do
without that rig, which is one way of easier sail-handling, but could
be much improved upon aero-dynamically to help keep her off a leeshore
without for instance that rig's multiple chafing points...
You had done a lot of serious homework on its history and particulars
for your project. After contact with the JRA and Blaine's business, you
were offered enthusiastic support. And we asked you whether the pope
would ever not want you to come to church. The resulting sketch looked
good to you and them. Fine. You write us after you are already well
into the project - again the issue of timing versus serious long-term
decisions.
- We've designed the first junk-rigged cruiser in '77/78 - likely
before the Junk Rig Association joined in symbiotic relations with
Robin Blaine's commercial SUNBIRD MARINE. The largest one, Design
#401, carries 1221ft on her main mast. TONWEYAs 1100ft of sail have
served the mom & pop crew couple well for years. And there are a quite
few other designs in our files with that rig. So we've done it
already, read the books, studied the archeology and anthropology of the
rig geometry. And Hasler/McCloud's work is very important from all
angles and must be part of rigging history. To further put that
geometry into general rig-conceptual context see 103 SAILING RIGS by
Phil Bolger. But the urge to attribute some particular magic wisdom to
the eastern ancients that 'shall not be tampered with' is in the class
with George Harrison going to India to find 'his Guru' - hip, at that
time, and probably with good intentions, but apparently not necessarily
the universal key to enlightened proceedings afterwards. And even the
JRA's by now multi-decade and at times tax-payer-supported quest to
improve the geometry, implies that there is indeed lot's of room for
advances to make the rig competive with current 'conventional'
geometries. Furthermore the dictate of the text to keep to a maximum
size per sail/mast has been successfully 'violated' by us going double+
without grief. The mile-stone text should not become a rockslide
blocking the way towards further developments - such as our Chinese
Gaff first proposed in 1984 and now integrated into designs with sizes
up to nearly 1600ft on one Chinese Gaff-Sloop example. Again read 103
SAILING RIGS putting it all into broad context of 2 Junk Rigs versus 3
Chinese Gaff Rigs versus 98 'other' rigs.
We understand your urge to do your boat 'just right' for yourself. But
to start with a 29' cruiser to express personal creativity on the
magnitude of lateral-plane alterations as sudden brain-storms and
risking significantly compromizing the performance with dramatic rig
alterations goes from 'having fun' towards asking for grief. Being in
the 'diaspora' - as a german correspondent and successful homebuilder
and bluewatersailor from Sylt put it years ago - the stresses on the
project to be successful are great enough. Reducing design-integrity
and thus likely performance are not helpful in that context. Doing
those changes on the basis of suspicion rather than hands-on experience
is clearly problematic.
As we told you in that call, completing her as designed means fast no
head-scratching/ruminating time wasted - particularly under your time
pressure then - now? And it means that you'll either learn soon how to
handle this sort of rig, or you'll know for sure that the 'proper'
cruising AS-29 requires building two equal-sized mainmasts, along with
two full-size tabernacles - including one doing a number on the
stateroom aft - then using the larger gaff main for one of the two
smaller junk sails. But it seems that you'll never know her potential,
and you'll still not meet that deadline with all that extra work. And
that work eats up any presumed economic advantage of the fabled
'ricepaper-and-bedsheets' claims presumably equal to conventional
cloth. And you'll still need that meaty sewing-machine (cost/hours) as
the junk has multiples of seamage over the plain gaff sail... plus
blocks, running line, chafe-pads/cushions etc., etc. until you are
finally where you could have gone with the better aerodynamics of our
Chinese Gaff Rig, with limited-to-no chafing problems, and no
consulting fees to the deans of the one true eastern faith... And now
you will find out that she will be slower, will be more likely to pound
etc.
Lessons:
- We wished you had given us the chance early enough to investigate and
perhaps integrate leeboards on that design.
- We wished you had asked us about the odds of rig options conceivable
- with some time - other than the Gaff Cat-Yawl.
- And we wished you would not show the world the proposed
'improvements' on your first large boat project using our design
without checking reality before kicking the web-site into glorous
colorful gear.
Dept. Good News:
There should be a new video out in January 2000 of a significant
trailer-cruising design...
We thought we'd made the point ONE-on-ONE over the phone, when we
invested about 80 mins. of transatlantic phone-bills trying to save
your larger boat-building project from losing its integrity with
mid-stream changes such as the leeboard idea or from more planned
compromises such as the rig idea. We were this intensely interested
because we admire anyone in Germany to buck the whole boat-building
diaspora atmosphere and actually tackle an AS-29. We think this is
great. The man has guts. Since Susanne is German, further affinities
kick in to help out and we don't look at the clock much anymore - a
boat is at stake...
Recap:
LEEBOARDS:
You had proposed to change from the bilgeboard design on the plans to
leeboards instead.
- Unlike your statement on your site attributed to us, we like
leeboards in all dimensions from TV-dinner tray size-clip-ons for dinks
over WALRUS' 900lbs each UNballasted ice-going 'armor' to those on the
90' SIR JOSEPH BANKS trader and 126' PHOUMA research vessel. We have
used them more and more broadly than just about anybody drawing boats.
- Your reasons for alterations were stated as the need to 'save time to
get into the water sooner...'. We duly pointed out that properly-done
leeboards cannot be a 'fix' of some sort to merely be hung on to her
without significant conceptual, functional and structural consideration
and construction effort - ergo not a 'fix'. There was plenty of
opportunity to consider the leeboard-option just early enough in the
assembly process to actually allow an adequate geometry. From what we
understood at the time of your inquiry, you were past that point, with
changes still possible, if doable at all, but surely NOT as an exercise
of time savings anymore! Finally, as we told you, not every hull-shape
is suitable to carry leeboards with 'a straight face'.
CHINESE JUNK-RIG:
You had proposed a two-masted junk-rigged schooner geometry with about
10ft more sail-area than AS-29's stock rig. Reasons offered to us was
concern about dealing with her stock Gaff Cat-Yawl's 20' main boom.
Plus a hint at apparent unfamiliarity with safely reefing a gaff-rig -
understandable under the current triangular-dictate in training- and
charter-fleets.
- We responded that Phil's mild adventures in his 1960 leeboard POINTER
(33'LOA)included not only several generations of leeboard attachment
but also not having his hair parted the wrong way by that Cat-rig's
28'long boom - on a 5' wide hull-bottom and much lower to the water
than AS-29's boom could ever sag. In keeping with being quite radical
POINTER could be scary - Bolger testing the limits... - but in coastal
cruising she kept bringing him back.
AS-29's boom is not a wild proposal.
- And, most importantly, AS-29's Gaff Cat-Yawl rig is part of a rig and
hull combination that can account for reasonably high performance along
with balance. Having done a range of junk-rigs, we deemed a junk
schooner geometry would very likely 'tie her feet' in light of the
well-documented ill aerodynamics of the type, excacerbated here by the
schooner's generally inherent disadvantages in pointing over a single
main.
- You had read the HILL's fine account of cruising with such a
geometry. We like that book very well for the spirit it is written in.
And Phil has met the Hills and BADGER when they stopped by here in
Gloucester on the way to get that book published. In 3-D their
execution of her seemed about as shipshape and capable to weather nasty
stuff out there as anything in that size class. We just wished BADGER
could do without that keel to go the million places she can not go now,
do without that hull-shape that is intended for stacking multiples of
on a Gloucester fishing-schooner's deck off to the Grand Banks, and do
without that rig, which is one way of easier sail-handling, but could
be much improved upon aero-dynamically to help keep her off a leeshore
without for instance that rig's multiple chafing points...
You had done a lot of serious homework on its history and particulars
for your project. After contact with the JRA and Blaine's business, you
were offered enthusiastic support. And we asked you whether the pope
would ever not want you to come to church. The resulting sketch looked
good to you and them. Fine. You write us after you are already well
into the project - again the issue of timing versus serious long-term
decisions.
- We've designed the first junk-rigged cruiser in '77/78 - likely
before the Junk Rig Association joined in symbiotic relations with
Robin Blaine's commercial SUNBIRD MARINE. The largest one, Design
#401, carries 1221ft on her main mast. TONWEYAs 1100ft of sail have
served the mom & pop crew couple well for years. And there are a quite
few other designs in our files with that rig. So we've done it
already, read the books, studied the archeology and anthropology of the
rig geometry. And Hasler/McCloud's work is very important from all
angles and must be part of rigging history. To further put that
geometry into general rig-conceptual context see 103 SAILING RIGS by
Phil Bolger. But the urge to attribute some particular magic wisdom to
the eastern ancients that 'shall not be tampered with' is in the class
with George Harrison going to India to find 'his Guru' - hip, at that
time, and probably with good intentions, but apparently not necessarily
the universal key to enlightened proceedings afterwards. And even the
JRA's by now multi-decade and at times tax-payer-supported quest to
improve the geometry, implies that there is indeed lot's of room for
advances to make the rig competive with current 'conventional'
geometries. Furthermore the dictate of the text to keep to a maximum
size per sail/mast has been successfully 'violated' by us going double+
without grief. The mile-stone text should not become a rockslide
blocking the way towards further developments - such as our Chinese
Gaff first proposed in 1984 and now integrated into designs with sizes
up to nearly 1600ft on one Chinese Gaff-Sloop example. Again read 103
SAILING RIGS putting it all into broad context of 2 Junk Rigs versus 3
Chinese Gaff Rigs versus 98 'other' rigs.
We understand your urge to do your boat 'just right' for yourself. But
to start with a 29' cruiser to express personal creativity on the
magnitude of lateral-plane alterations as sudden brain-storms and
risking significantly compromizing the performance with dramatic rig
alterations goes from 'having fun' towards asking for grief. Being in
the 'diaspora' - as a german correspondent and successful homebuilder
and bluewatersailor from Sylt put it years ago - the stresses on the
project to be successful are great enough. Reducing design-integrity
and thus likely performance are not helpful in that context. Doing
those changes on the basis of suspicion rather than hands-on experience
is clearly problematic.
As we told you in that call, completing her as designed means fast no
head-scratching/ruminating time wasted - particularly under your time
pressure then - now? And it means that you'll either learn soon how to
handle this sort of rig, or you'll know for sure that the 'proper'
cruising AS-29 requires building two equal-sized mainmasts, along with
two full-size tabernacles - including one doing a number on the
stateroom aft - then using the larger gaff main for one of the two
smaller junk sails. But it seems that you'll never know her potential,
and you'll still not meet that deadline with all that extra work. And
that work eats up any presumed economic advantage of the fabled
'ricepaper-and-bedsheets' claims presumably equal to conventional
cloth. And you'll still need that meaty sewing-machine (cost/hours) as
the junk has multiples of seamage over the plain gaff sail... plus
blocks, running line, chafe-pads/cushions etc., etc. until you are
finally where you could have gone with the better aerodynamics of our
Chinese Gaff Rig, with limited-to-no chafing problems, and no
consulting fees to the deans of the one true eastern faith... And now
you will find out that she will be slower, will be more likely to pound
etc.
Lessons:
- We wished you had given us the chance early enough to investigate and
perhaps integrate leeboards on that design.
- We wished you had asked us about the odds of rig options conceivable
- with some time - other than the Gaff Cat-Yawl.
- And we wished you would not show the world the proposed
'improvements' on your first large boat project using our design
without checking reality before kicking the web-site into glorous
colorful gear.
Dept. Good News:
There should be a new video out in January 2000 of a significant
trailer-cruising design...