Re: [bolger] Re: Italian Micro
I have found that tacking a ketch or yawl is easier if you ease the mizzen sheet just before the boat goes head to wind. I think (though I don't know for certain) that this is because the sheeted mizzen acts like a weather vane and its force can resist the turn of the boat.
I will leave the science to someone else; it works for me.
JohnT
I will leave the science to someone else; it works for me.
JohnT
----- Original Message -----
From: graeme19121984
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 8:38 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Italian Micro
Marco, congratulations on launching your Micro, and on your English
which is far better than my Italian. If Google translation of the
website has served me properly then am I to understand that your
Micro is in some way connected with your therapeutic educational
psychology practice? If so I think Mr Bolger would be pleased, as he
has made a few designs for youth oriented purposes, and seems to
enjoy the task very much. Either way, I am sure that Micro can be
therapeutic.
The long, shallow, salient keel of Micro does not generate a lot of
hydrodynamic lift. That lift is poor at low speed, and in comparison
to a fin keel requires a higher speed to generate a certain amount
of lift to windward. The centre of the lateral plane of the boat
with the salient keel moves appreciably forward as speed increases.
This means the distance between the rudder and the effective keel
centres is increased thereby giving the rudder greater leverage
ability to turn the boat. At least, that is my understanding.
You should find that after trying different methods of handling
the mainsail, mizzen, and rudder that you will be able to tack ("
virare( to veer)"?) at low wind speeds, but sometimes the waves will
also stop you. If you have SPACE then you may always reliably change
tack by "wearing ship" ("strambare"?? --Bear off or turn away
downwind, gybe (( let the wind astern pass from one side to the
other)), then head up on the new tack).
In very strong wind, under flat out motor power alone, I have found
some difficulty also in turning through the eye of the wind. I think
there is not enough lee way to generate lift, and cause the keel
plane centre to move forward. There remains only a short lever arm
between the propellor/rudder and the keel plane centre which cannot
overcome the leveraged force of the wind on the high bow topsides.
Lowering the mast should help, but I've not tried it. In tight
situations it is sometimes best to take a deep breath, be brave, and
at the highest speed possible to wear ship. Practice in a safe
situation first. The Micro will turn; whereas it may be stopped in
turning forwards through the wind, and before regaining steerage way
may drift into trouble.
Enjoy.
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Marco Vinicio Masoni <masoni@...>
wrote:
>
> Dear all
> I 've been in silence for much time, not only to not oppress you
with my
> English (not even comparable to that of my friend Lord Pippo
Bianco), but
> also because I had devoted myself to the construction of the Micro.
> This is the first Italian Micro , cronologically, I suppose.
> I'm building the boat in the country, 30 km from my house, in a
farm that
> is also a big therapeutic community for addicts. Having worked for
many
> years in a juvenile jail as psychologist, They offered this space,
so,
> working, makes to bear any interest for the boats ( and the job)
in the
> consumers of the community.
> This, illustrated in the photos, it is the point to which I have
arrived.
> Now there will be the long winter standstill and I then will go on
the jobs
> in spring.
> Merry Christmas to all.
>
> Marco Masoni
>
>
>
>
> Laboratorio di Psicologia Dott. Masoni
> Piazza Bolivar, 6
> 20146 MILANO - Italy
> Tel. 02-428838
> Fax. 02-47716682
> email: masoni@...
> www.giardino.com/artist/masoni/mason1.html
>
> "Perciò saranno tutte soltanto nomi Le cose che i mortali hanno
> stabilito, persuasi che fossero vere" (Parmenide 8, 38-39)
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "marcoviniciomasoni"
<marcoviniciomasoni@...> wrote:
>
> Dear all, I am very happy to be the first builder of an Italian
micro
> (I know that my friend Pippo had begun one of it, but he then has
> interrupted the job. By the way would I like send you a photo, but
how
> cai I send photo in the section "photos"?)
> In a recent e-mail of this forum anybody has written that micro
is an
> excellent boat, easy and sure for learn to sail. True. I am 60
years
> old, I have very little experience of sail, but I have built my
micro
> and I am learning with him.
> I have only a problem: when the wind is not strongly I am not
able to
> veer, I am forced to turn with the wind to the shoulders (you
excuse
> but I don't know the English term, in Italian is told "strambare"
> vs " virare( to veer)".
> The boat stays with the bow to the wind and slowly return on the
edge
> that I want to leave.
> When the wind is strongly instead there is no problem.
> Could anybody write the steps to follow for veer in a correct way
with
> a micro?
> Thank you to all and you excuse my very bad English.(And the
> ripetition of this message)
> Marco Vinicio Masoni
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marco, congratulations on launching your Micro, and on your English
which is far better than my Italian. If Google translation of the
website has served me properly then am I to understand that your
Micro is in some way connected with your therapeutic educational
psychology practice? If so I think Mr Bolger would be pleased, as he
has made a few designs for youth oriented purposes, and seems to
enjoy the task very much. Either way, I am sure that Micro can be
therapeutic.
The long, shallow, salient keel of Micro does not generate a lot of
hydrodynamic lift. That lift is poor at low speed, and in comparison
to a fin keel requires a higher speed to generate a certain amount
of lift to windward. The centre of the lateral plane of the boat
with the salient keel moves appreciably forward as speed increases.
This means the distance between the rudder and the effective keel
centres is increased thereby giving the rudder greater leverage
ability to turn the boat. At least, that is my understanding.
You should find that after trying different methods of handling
the mainsail, mizzen, and rudder that you will be able to tack ("
virare( to veer)"?) at low wind speeds, but sometimes the waves will
also stop you. If you have SPACE then you may always reliably change
tack by "wearing ship" ("strambare"?? --Bear off or turn away
downwind, gybe (( let the wind astern pass from one side to the
other)), then head up on the new tack).
In very strong wind, under flat out motor power alone, I have found
some difficulty also in turning through the eye of the wind. I think
there is not enough lee way to generate lift, and cause the keel
plane centre to move forward. There remains only a short lever arm
between the propellor/rudder and the keel plane centre which cannot
overcome the leveraged force of the wind on the high bow topsides.
Lowering the mast should help, but I've not tried it. In tight
situations it is sometimes best to take a deep breath, be brave, and
at the highest speed possible to wear ship. Practice in a safe
situation first. The Micro will turn; whereas it may be stopped in
turning forwards through the wind, and before regaining steerage way
may drift into trouble.
Enjoy.
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Marco Vinicio Masoni <masoni@...>
wrote:
<marcoviniciomasoni@...> wrote:
which is far better than my Italian. If Google translation of the
website has served me properly then am I to understand that your
Micro is in some way connected with your therapeutic educational
psychology practice? If so I think Mr Bolger would be pleased, as he
has made a few designs for youth oriented purposes, and seems to
enjoy the task very much. Either way, I am sure that Micro can be
therapeutic.
The long, shallow, salient keel of Micro does not generate a lot of
hydrodynamic lift. That lift is poor at low speed, and in comparison
to a fin keel requires a higher speed to generate a certain amount
of lift to windward. The centre of the lateral plane of the boat
with the salient keel moves appreciably forward as speed increases.
This means the distance between the rudder and the effective keel
centres is increased thereby giving the rudder greater leverage
ability to turn the boat. At least, that is my understanding.
You should find that after trying different methods of handling
the mainsail, mizzen, and rudder that you will be able to tack ("
virare( to veer)"?) at low wind speeds, but sometimes the waves will
also stop you. If you have SPACE then you may always reliably change
tack by "wearing ship" ("strambare"?? --Bear off or turn away
downwind, gybe (( let the wind astern pass from one side to the
other)), then head up on the new tack).
In very strong wind, under flat out motor power alone, I have found
some difficulty also in turning through the eye of the wind. I think
there is not enough lee way to generate lift, and cause the keel
plane centre to move forward. There remains only a short lever arm
between the propellor/rudder and the keel plane centre which cannot
overcome the leveraged force of the wind on the high bow topsides.
Lowering the mast should help, but I've not tried it. In tight
situations it is sometimes best to take a deep breath, be brave, and
at the highest speed possible to wear ship. Practice in a safe
situation first. The Micro will turn; whereas it may be stopped in
turning forwards through the wind, and before regaining steerage way
may drift into trouble.
Enjoy.
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Marco Vinicio Masoni <masoni@...>
wrote:
>with my
> Dear all
> I 've been in silence for much time, not only to not oppress you
> English (not even comparable to that of my friend Lord PippoBianco), but
> also because I had devoted myself to the construction of the Micro.farm that
> This is the first Italian Micro , cronologically, I suppose.
> I'm building the boat in the country, 30 km from my house, in a
> is also a big therapeutic community for addicts. Having worked formany
> years in a juvenile jail as psychologist, They offered this space,so,
> working, makes to bear any interest for the boats ( and the job)in the
> consumers of the community.arrived.
> This, illustrated in the photos, it is the point to which I have
> Now there will be the long winter standstill and I then will go onthe jobs
> in spring.--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "marcoviniciomasoni"
> Merry Christmas to all.
>
> Marco Masoni
>
>
>
>
> Laboratorio di Psicologia Dott. Masoni
> Piazza Bolivar, 6
> 20146 MILANO - Italy
> Tel. 02-428838
> Fax. 02-47716682
> email: masoni@...
> www.giardino.com/artist/masoni/mason1.html
>
> "Perciò saranno tutte soltanto nomi Le cose che i mortali hanno
> stabilito, persuasi che fossero vere" (Parmenide 8, 38-39)
>
<marcoviniciomasoni@...> wrote:
>micro
> Dear all, I am very happy to be the first builder of an Italian
> (I know that my friend Pippo had begun one of it, but he then hashow
> interrupted the job. By the way would I like send you a photo, but
> cai I send photo in the section "photos"?)is an
> In a recent e-mail of this forum anybody has written that micro
> excellent boat, easy and sure for learn to sail. True. I am 60years
> old, I have very little experience of sail, but I have built mymicro
> and I am learning with him.able to
> I have only a problem: when the wind is not strongly I am not
> veer, I am forced to turn with the wind to the shoulders (youexcuse
> but I don't know the English term, in Italian is told "strambare"edge
> vs " virare( to veer)".
> The boat stays with the bow to the wind and slowly return on the
> that I want to leave.with
> When the wind is strongly instead there is no problem.
> Could anybody write the steps to follow for veer in a correct way
> a micro?
> Thank you to all and you excuse my very bad English.(And the
> ripetition of this message)
> Marco Vinicio Masoni
>
I posted some photos ( 3 ) of the italian Micro. Now She ( he?) is on
Lago Maggiore, north Italy.
Lago Maggiore, north Italy.
Marco
I had the same problem with my Oldshoe in light wind. My solution was
to get what speed I could first. Then use the rudder just enough, Not
too much, not too little. It takes practice. Excess rudder acts as a
brake and will slow you down. Then if it still would not tack (veer,
english as well) and I hade some speed left I would reach up and push
the sail toward the wind. Sometimes it worked. Again, it takes
practice. The long keel promotes slow tacking. See photos here:
http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/browse/7c99
Peppino Tribulato
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "marcoviniciomasoni"
<marcoviniciomasoni@...> wrote:
I had the same problem with my Oldshoe in light wind. My solution was
to get what speed I could first. Then use the rudder just enough, Not
too much, not too little. It takes practice. Excess rudder acts as a
brake and will slow you down. Then if it still would not tack (veer,
english as well) and I hade some speed left I would reach up and push
the sail toward the wind. Sometimes it worked. Again, it takes
practice. The long keel promotes slow tacking. See photos here:
http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/browse/7c99
Peppino Tribulato
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "marcoviniciomasoni"
<marcoviniciomasoni@...> wrote:
>
> Dear all, I am very happy to be the first builder of an Italian micro
> (I know that my friend Pippo had begun one of it, but he then has
> interrupted the job. By the way would I like send you a photo, but how
> cai I send photo in the section "photos"?)
> In a recent e-mail of this forum anybody has written that micro is an
> excellent boat, easy and sure for learn to sail. True. I am 60 years
> old, I have very little experience of sail, but I have built my micro
> and I am learning with him.
> I have only a problem: when the wind is not strongly I am not able to
> veer, I am forced to turn with the wind to the shoulders (you excuse
> but I don't know the English term, in Italian is told "strambare"
> vs " virare( to veer)".
> The boat stays with the bow to the wind and slowly return on the edge
> that I want to leave.
> When the wind is strongly instead there is no problem.
> Could anybody write the steps to follow for veer in a correct way with
> a micro?
> Thank you to all and you excuse my very bad English.(And the
> ripetition of this message)
> Marco Vinicio Masoni
>
Thank you. You can see some photos in my web site, in the section "La
barca terapeutica" ( the therapeutic boat):
http://www.formazione-studio.it/esp_innovative_detail.php?
esp_innovative_ID=50
Marco
barca terapeutica" ( the therapeutic boat):
http://www.formazione-studio.it/esp_innovative_detail.php?
esp_innovative_ID=50
Marco
Thanks, you can seee some photos on my web site:
http://www.formazione-studio.it/esp_innovative_detail.php?esp_innovative_ID=50
---------- Initial Header -----------
From :bolger@yahoogroups.com
To :bolger@yahoogroups.com
Cc :
Date : Fri, 01 Sep 2006 19:02:22 -0000
Subject : [bolger] Re: Italian Micro
http://www.formazione-studio.it/esp_innovative_detail.php?esp_innovative_ID=50
---------- Initial Header -----------
From :bolger@yahoogroups.com
To :bolger@yahoogroups.com
Cc :
Date : Fri, 01 Sep 2006 19:02:22 -0000
Subject : [bolger] Re: Italian Micro
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "marcoviniciomasoni"
> <marcoviniciomasoni@...> wrote:
> >
> > Dear all, I am very happy to be the first builder of an Italian micro
> Well done, friend!
> I look forward to your pictures.
> David
>
>
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "marcoviniciomasoni"
<marcoviniciomasoni@...> wrote:
I look forward to your pictures.
David
<marcoviniciomasoni@...> wrote:
>Well done, friend!
> Dear all, I am very happy to be the first builder of an Italian micro
I look forward to your pictures.
David
On 9/1/06, marcoviniciomasoni <marcoviniciomasoni@...> wrote:
You are asking how to sail a 'Cat Yawl' rig, which has a big main sail
in the bow and a small mizzen sail in the stern.
I am guessing that your problem might be coming from the mizzen sail
grabbing the wind as you try to bring your bow across the wind. I
suggest you try loosening the mizzen sail sheet so that it does not
bite the wind as the bow comes around. Sorry, if my English is not
clear, my Italian is worse!
>> Dear all, I am very happy to be the first builder of an Italian microCongratulations on the Micro!
You are asking how to sail a 'Cat Yawl' rig, which has a big main sail
in the bow and a small mizzen sail in the stern.
I am guessing that your problem might be coming from the mizzen sail
grabbing the wind as you try to bring your bow across the wind. I
suggest you try loosening the mizzen sail sheet so that it does not
bite the wind as the bow comes around. Sorry, if my English is not
clear, my Italian is worse!
Dear all, I am very happy to be the first builder of an Italian micro
(I know that my friend Pippo had begun one of it, but he then has
interrupted the job. By the way would I like send you a photo, but how
cai I send photo in the section "photos"?)
In a recent e-mail of this forum anybody has written that micro is an
excellent boat, easy and sure for learn to sail. True. I am 60 years
old, I have very little experience of sail, but I have built my micro
and I am learning with him.
I have only a problem: when the wind is not strongly I am not able to
veer, I am forced to turn with the wind to the shoulders (you excuse
but I don't know the English term, in Italian is told "strambare"
vs " virare( to veer)".
The boat stays with the bow to the wind and slowly return on the edge
that I want to leave.
When the wind is strongly instead there is no problem.
Could anybody write the steps to follow for veer in a correct way with
a micro?
Thank you to all and you excuse my very bad English.(And the
ripetition of this message)
Marco Vinicio Masoni
(I know that my friend Pippo had begun one of it, but he then has
interrupted the job. By the way would I like send you a photo, but how
cai I send photo in the section "photos"?)
In a recent e-mail of this forum anybody has written that micro is an
excellent boat, easy and sure for learn to sail. True. I am 60 years
old, I have very little experience of sail, but I have built my micro
and I am learning with him.
I have only a problem: when the wind is not strongly I am not able to
veer, I am forced to turn with the wind to the shoulders (you excuse
but I don't know the English term, in Italian is told "strambare"
vs " virare( to veer)".
The boat stays with the bow to the wind and slowly return on the edge
that I want to leave.
When the wind is strongly instead there is no problem.
Could anybody write the steps to follow for veer in a correct way with
a micro?
Thank you to all and you excuse my very bad English.(And the
ripetition of this message)
Marco Vinicio Masoni
Laboratorio di Psicologia Dott. Masoni
Piazza Bolivar, 6
20146 MILANO - Italy
Tel. 02-428838
Fax. 02-47716682
email: masoni@...
www.giardino.com/artist/masoni/mason1.html
"Perciò saranno tutte soltanto nomi Le cose che i mortali hanno
stabilito, persuasi che fossero vere"(Parmenide 8, 38-39)