re: Brick flotation, etc...
> I have pondered using an inverted brick as a sleeping shelter for roughWalmart to the rescue, cut the bottom out of a $20 6' x 4' tent, and
> camping. Perhaps the polytarp sail could do service as a ground cloth.
> Just don't sit up real fast.
snap it to the sides. Only problem is that really curved bottom of the
brick, another reason for a false floor.
> If the flotation were concentrated at the bottom of the hull, the center ofI see now your concern for low down floatation. I wonder how floor
> effort for the flotation, in a swamped condition, would be BELOW the center
> of mass of the hull. This creates a dynamically unstable condition. If you
> tilt just a bit it wants to keep turning over until the flotation is above the
> center of mass.
board floatation versus side air tanks would compare in respect to the
axis of rotation when trying to recover from an inverted posistion.
With air tanks along the sides, an inverted brick would have to have the
majority of it's hull rotated above the water level to right it. With
floatation inside a raised floor, much less of the boat would go
airborne when re-righting it.
I have no experience at any of this, and it probably doesn't matter with
a brick because of the small size, but a larger craft wouldn't be as
easy to man-handle.
I wonder if there is any small scale testing we could do to examine the
effects of what we are discussing.
Shorty
> > Thus creating a liveaboard Brick?You obviously have a different idea of 'fun' than I do. (:
> > Why?
>
> Because it would be fun.
I have pondered using an inverted brick as a sleeping shelter for rough
camping. Perhaps the polytarp sail could do service as a ground cloth.
Just don't sit up real fast.
> Very true words. And with that clearly in mind, the brick screams outVery good point.
> to be tinkered with. If you screw it up, so what? You don't loose
> much. Would rather screw up a brick, than screw up an AF2 or Caprice.
> With such a rectangular shape, I am not sure that any configurationIf the flotation were concentrated at the bottom of the hull, the center of
> would make it float upside down better.
effort for the flotation, in a swamped condition, would be BELOW the center
of mass of the hull. This creates a dynamically unstable condition. If you
tilt just a bit it wants to keep turning over until the flotation is above the
center of mass.
> Thus creating a liveaboard Brick?Because it would be fun.
> Why?
> I'm not sure the brick warrants much effort to add features. It is arguablyVery true words. And with that clearly in mind, the brick screams out
> the simplest bolger boat to construct but that my be it's only redeeming
> quality. If you try to add features, you get something more complex to
> build but in the end, you still have a brick.
to be tinkered with. If you screw it up, so what? You don't loose
much. Would rather screw up a brick, than screw up an AF2 or Caprice.
> My gut tells me that adding flotation down low, such as under a floorboard,With such a rectangular shape, I am not sure that any configuration
> wouldn't be the best idea because it would make it want to float upside down
> if swamped.
would make it float upside down better. Was hoping that when righted,
the self draining part would get rid of the water.
> Nice page. I like your transport frame and wheels. I may have to steal thatTHANKS!!
> idea.
Send pictures when you do.
Shorty
The Brick has a number of other good features: excellent stability,
good handling, comfort, manageable weight (if not modified and if
light wood used), handles a large load. I agree that modifying it
isn't necessarily a good idea as it works so well as designed. I'd
only be tempted by kick up rudder (which we have), kick up
leeboard/daggerboard, and floatation (which must be very light).
good handling, comfort, manageable weight (if not modified and if
light wood used), handles a large load. I agree that modifying it
isn't necessarily a good idea as it works so well as designed. I'd
only be tempted by kick up rudder (which we have), kick up
leeboard/daggerboard, and floatation (which must be very light).
--- In bolger@y..., <darus@v...> wrote:
> >
> > One idea that I can't remember who suggested, would be to put a
raised
> > flat floor in the brick to provide:
> > 1 - a flat sleeping surface
> > 2 - self draining cockpit so you can take a jug shower
> > 3 - floatation
> > 4 - out of the way storage
> >
> > Also, if you put decks across the bow and stern to reduce the open
area
> > to 6' x 4', you could cut the bottom out of a tent and make a
sizeable
> > living area.
>
> Thus creating a liveaboard Brick?
> Why?
>
> I'm not sure the brick warrants much effort to add features. It is
arguably
> the simplest bolger boat to construct but that my be it's only
redeeming
> quality. If you try to add features, you get something more complex
to
> build but in the end, you still have a brick.
>
> I think some flotation may be a good addition. I suspect that self
> rescue is nearly impossible without it. I plan to deliberately swamp
> mine some time this summer to find out for sure. (when the water
gets
> around to warming up)
>
> My gut tells me that adding flotation down low, such as under a
floorboard,
> wouldn't be the best idea because it would make it want to float
upside down
> if swamped.
>
> I had several thoughts about placing flotation. One was to create
> compartments in the corners by paneling in the triangular areas
defined by
> the knees and fill them with foam. My second idea was to line the
bow and
> stern transoms with a few inches of polystyrene foam and then
sandwich it with
> plywood to protect it from physical damage. A third was to line the
SIDES
> with foam and sandwich it with plywood.
>
> Or just never get knocked down.
>Thus creating a liveaboard Brick?
> One idea that I can't remember who suggested, would be to put a raised
> flat floor in the brick to provide:
> 1 - a flat sleeping surface
> 2 - self draining cockpit so you can take a jug shower
> 3 - floatation
> 4 - out of the way storage
>
> Also, if you put decks across the bow and stern to reduce the open area
> to 6' x 4', you could cut the bottom out of a tent and make a sizeable
> living area.
Why?
I'm not sure the brick warrants much effort to add features. It is arguably
the simplest bolger boat to construct but that my be it's only redeeming
quality. If you try to add features, you get something more complex to
build but in the end, you still have a brick.
I think some flotation may be a good addition. I suspect that self
rescue is nearly impossible without it. I plan to deliberately swamp
mine some time this summer to find out for sure. (when the water gets
around to warming up)
My gut tells me that adding flotation down low, such as under a floorboard,
wouldn't be the best idea because it would make it want to float upside down
if swamped.
I had several thoughts about placing flotation. One was to create
compartments in the corners by paneling in the triangular areas defined by
the knees and fill them with foam. My second idea was to line the bow and
stern transoms with a few inches of polystyrene foam and then sandwich it with
plywood to protect it from physical damage. A third was to line the SIDES
with foam and sandwich it with plywood.
Or just never get knocked down.
Mine had a kickup rudder, but the leeboard was the stock dagger type.
Next on the todo list was to make the leeboard pivot up.
One idea that I can't remember who suggested, would be to put a raised
flat floor in the brick to provide:
1 - a flat sleeping surface
2 - self draining cockpit so you can take a jug shower
3 - floatation
4 - out of the way storage
Also, if you put decks across the bow and stern to reduce the open area
to 6' x 4', you could cut the bottom out of a tent and make a sizeable
living area.
Just some ideas......
Shorty
Next on the todo list was to make the leeboard pivot up.
One idea that I can't remember who suggested, would be to put a raised
flat floor in the brick to provide:
1 - a flat sleeping surface
2 - self draining cockpit so you can take a jug shower
3 - floatation
4 - out of the way storage
Also, if you put decks across the bow and stern to reduce the open area
to 6' x 4', you could cut the bottom out of a tent and make a sizeable
living area.
Just some ideas......
Shorty
I designed a kickup rudder for my brick but have not finished it. I think
that it will help in launching and sailing. I have been very busy and
haven't had the time to get things done. I hope to put the finshing touches
this weekend.
Michael Surface
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com
that it will help in launching and sailing. I have been very busy and
haven't had the time to get things done. I hope to put the finshing touches
this weekend.
Michael Surface
>From:darus@..._________________________________________________________________
>Reply-To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [bolger] Re: Bricks Float
>Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 16:26:55 -0000
>
>--- In bolger@y..., "Michael Surface" <msurface@h...> wrote:
> > How does your brick sail? From your commments I would guess not bad.
> > I look forward to hearing more.
>
>I can't give a full commentary on her sailing ability, yet. I've only
>had her out that one time, so far. The wind was light and the water
>too shallow for me to put the leeboard down all the way. I didn't
>make much, if any progress to windward. I also suspect that I didn't
>have the sail trimmed properly. Oh, and did I mention that I'd never
>been at the tiller of a sailboat before? The good thing was that the
>wind that day was straight onshore. Worst case, I'd just drift back
>to where I started from.
>
>I need to go back and re-read a couple of Michalak's essays. (Rigging
>the sharpie sprit sail, and Sailing for the non-sailor, at the very
>least)
>
>I also desperately need to change the rudder to a kickup design. The
>water I'll most likely spend most of my time in is rather shallow and
>has numerous sandbars.
>
>
>
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com
--- In bolger@y..., "Michael Surface" <msurface@h...> wrote:
had her out that one time, so far. The wind was light and the water
too shallow for me to put the leeboard down all the way. I didn't
make much, if any progress to windward. I also suspect that I didn't
have the sail trimmed properly. Oh, and did I mention that I'd never
been at the tiller of a sailboat before? The good thing was that the
wind that day was straight onshore. Worst case, I'd just drift back
to where I started from.
I need to go back and re-read a couple of Michalak's essays. (Rigging
the sharpie sprit sail, and Sailing for the non-sailor, at the very
least)
I also desperately need to change the rudder to a kickup design. The
water I'll most likely spend most of my time in is rather shallow and
has numerous sandbars.
> How does your brick sail? From your commments I would guess not bad.I can't give a full commentary on her sailing ability, yet. I've only
> I look forward to hearing more.
had her out that one time, so far. The wind was light and the water
too shallow for me to put the leeboard down all the way. I didn't
make much, if any progress to windward. I also suspect that I didn't
have the sail trimmed properly. Oh, and did I mention that I'd never
been at the tiller of a sailboat before? The good thing was that the
wind that day was straight onshore. Worst case, I'd just drift back
to where I started from.
I need to go back and re-read a couple of Michalak's essays. (Rigging
the sharpie sprit sail, and Sailing for the non-sailor, at the very
least)
I also desperately need to change the rudder to a kickup design. The
water I'll most likely spend most of my time in is rather shallow and
has numerous sandbars.
Congradulations!
I am looking forward to you pictures. I am just finishing up the riging for
my brick and hope to have her in the water sometime this weekend. How does
your brick sail from your commments I would guess not bad. I look forward
to hearing more.
Michael Surface
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com
I am looking forward to you pictures. I am just finishing up the riging for
my brick and hope to have her in the water sometime this weekend. How does
your brick sail from your commments I would guess not bad. I look forward
to hearing more.
Michael Surface
>From: <darus@...>_________________________________________________________________
>Reply-To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [bolger] Bricks Float
>Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 14:49:48 -0500 (CDT)
>
>My brick does, anyway.
>I was going to wait to make this announcement until I had some pictures to
>show, but it seems if I wait that long, no one will ever hear of it.
>
>I started building a Bolger Brick in the spring of 2000. It took me until
>October to complete it. By that late in the season here in Minnesota, the
>water was too cold and the weather too unforgiving for me to even think of
>trying to sail her. So I waited. And waited... and waited some more, for
>what seemed the longest winter ever.
>
>Finally in June of this year, more than a year after I first put saw to
>wood, my Brick, "Li'l Spud" finally floated. And STAYED afloat. And didn't
>leak. And stayed upright. And moved when the wind blew. And... And...
>
>Well, anyway, for those of you who understand the feeling, no further
>explanation is necessary. For those of you who don't understand, no further
>explanation would be sufficient.
>
>You can seem my construction diary athttp://www.visi.com/~darus/brick
>and some day "Real Soon Now" I'll add some pictures of Li'l Spud actually
>in the water doing boat-like things.
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com
My brick does, anyway.
I was going to wait to make this announcement until I had some pictures to
show, but it seems if I wait that long, no one will ever hear of it.
I started building a Bolger Brick in the spring of 2000. It took me until
October to complete it. By that late in the season here in Minnesota, the
water was too cold and the weather too unforgiving for me to even think of
trying to sail her. So I waited. And waited... and waited some more, for
what seemed the longest winter ever.
Finally in June of this year, more than a year after I first put saw to
wood, my Brick, "Li'l Spud" finally floated. And STAYED afloat. And didn't
leak. And stayed upright. And moved when the wind blew. And... And...
Well, anyway, for those of you who understand the feeling, no further
explanation is necessary. For those of you who don't understand, no further
explanation would be sufficient.
You can seem my construction diary athttp://www.visi.com/~darus/brick
and some day "Real Soon Now" I'll add some pictures of Li'l Spud actually
in the water doing boat-like things.
I was going to wait to make this announcement until I had some pictures to
show, but it seems if I wait that long, no one will ever hear of it.
I started building a Bolger Brick in the spring of 2000. It took me until
October to complete it. By that late in the season here in Minnesota, the
water was too cold and the weather too unforgiving for me to even think of
trying to sail her. So I waited. And waited... and waited some more, for
what seemed the longest winter ever.
Finally in June of this year, more than a year after I first put saw to
wood, my Brick, "Li'l Spud" finally floated. And STAYED afloat. And didn't
leak. And stayed upright. And moved when the wind blew. And... And...
Well, anyway, for those of you who understand the feeling, no further
explanation is necessary. For those of you who don't understand, no further
explanation would be sufficient.
You can seem my construction diary athttp://www.visi.com/~darus/brick
and some day "Real Soon Now" I'll add some pictures of Li'l Spud actually
in the water doing boat-like things.