RE: [bolger] Teal Mods, and Other Stuff.
>===== Original Message FromPseudoDion3@...=====Sorry to go off topic too, but to save time, I'll post this to the list.
>Chris, I know this is a little off topic, but I'm gonna bite. What in the
>devil is the Duhem-Quine hypothesis?
This is a philosophy of science joke that I like because I made it
up. Karl Popper suggested that the sign of a good, open scientific theory
is one that puts itself at risk, that can be *falsified*. A theory that
cannot be falsified is a bad theory.
But Duhem (a physicist) and Quine (a philosopher) independently suggested
that, when a test of a theory ends up falsifying a hypothesis, people don't
necessarily discard the hypothesis, but wonder whether the apparatus worked
properly, whether they operationalized the theory properly, whether something
unusual happened, and so on. The idea is that data alone cannot disconfirm a
hypothesis, because you're never sure exactly why the disconfirmation took
place. Also, the theory may be adjusted in one way or another to be
consistent with the "falsification".
OK, so, long-windedly, the D-Q hypothesis is that you cannot
disconfirm hypotheses. Hence the circular joke.
Chris Crandallcrandall@...
Department of Psychology 785-864-9807
University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhme-Quine hypothesis.
Numerous bicycles have been manufactured this way as well; but using tubes
and ferrules, and I'm guessing there are special compounds involved, perhaps
heat processes or somesuch as well. It's hard for me to imagine sheets of
aluminum stuck together with epoxy/cabosil fillets holding up very well
though. Expensive experiment!
Welding outfits are widely available for rent, the trouble is knowing what
to do with it, or knowing someone who does. Lack of these last two things
has probably saved me alot of money..... keep saying I'm gonna take a
welding course, then I'd be dangerous......
Paul L.
and ferrules, and I'm guessing there are special compounds involved, perhaps
heat processes or somesuch as well. It's hard for me to imagine sheets of
aluminum stuck together with epoxy/cabosil fillets holding up very well
though. Expensive experiment!
Welding outfits are widely available for rent, the trouble is knowing what
to do with it, or knowing someone who does. Lack of these last two things
has probably saved me alot of money..... keep saying I'm gonna take a
welding course, then I'd be dangerous......
Paul L.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian [mailto:Brianv@...]
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Aluminum Teal?
> A number of modern sports cars such as the Lotus Elise and Morgan
> Aero 8 use a glued aluminium chassis,
A number of modern sports cars such as the Lotus Elise and Morgan Aero 8 use
a glued aluminium chassis,
So I guess it must be possible.
a glued aluminium chassis,
So I guess it must be possible.
----- Original Message -----
From: <r_harris22222@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 7:54 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Aluminum Teal?
> Hmm... I wonder how well literally gluing the seams (i.e. epoxy)
> would do. True, epoxy is not as strong as aluminum, but it is strong.
>
> The stiffness of aluminum might cause the epoxy to break, whereas the
> flexibility of wood will allow the wood to flex and save the epoxy
> joint.
>
> I wonder...
>
> > a local welder to "glue" the seams....
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Hmm... I wonder how well literally gluing the seams (i.e. epoxy)
would do. True, epoxy is not as strong as aluminum, but it is strong.
The stiffness of aluminum might cause the epoxy to break, whereas the
flexibility of wood will allow the wood to flex and save the epoxy
joint.
I wonder...
would do. True, epoxy is not as strong as aluminum, but it is strong.
The stiffness of aluminum might cause the epoxy to break, whereas the
flexibility of wood will allow the wood to flex and save the epoxy
joint.
I wonder...
> a local welder to "glue" the seams....
You would have to add stringers or something to get any kind of
stiffness, so the boat wouldn't be so simple. However, a properly
build aluminum boat lasts a long time. I know of an aluminum runabout
my folks used to own that was built in 1964 and is still in service,
though it has been sunk and grounded several times. Plywood has some
real structural advantages. However, if you used lots of stringers I
suppose aluminum could be light enough.
stiffness, so the boat wouldn't be so simple. However, a properly
build aluminum boat lasts a long time. I know of an aluminum runabout
my folks used to own that was built in 1964 and is still in service,
though it has been sunk and grounded several times. Plywood has some
real structural advantages. However, if you used lots of stringers I
suppose aluminum could be light enough.
--- In bolger@y..., curtisbetts@m... wrote:
> As I undertake major repairs/modifications of a Diablo (built by
> somebody else), I'm giving serious thought to making my next boat
out
> of rot-free, no-paint-needed, bang-it-on-the-rocks,
leave-it-out-all-
> winter metal.
>
> I've built with wood/epoxy, but never metal, so it seems like it
> would make sense to start small. Perhaps a first boat for my 5 year
> old to row and sail.
>
> Any thoughts on a quick-and-dirty Teal (should come in at under 100
> lbs) of welded aluminum? I'd cut and stitch together the plates
> (available in longer lengths than ply) over temporary frames, and
get
> a local welder to "glue" the seams. I'd probably finish the gunwales
> with foam noodles initially, and add wood rails later. Maybe start
> out with a windsurfer rig I've got on hand.
>
> I faxed PCB with this and some other questions, and got a nice call
> from Suzanne. She suggested Windsprint as being a better "heavy"
> boat, but I'm thinking this may be a lot bigger and more complicated
> than I want for my first experience in metal.
>
> Anybody built in aluminum? Ideas for a simple, HEAVY boat for a
kid?
>
> Curtis
Harbor Sales Company
1000 Harbor Court
Sudlersville, MD 21668
emailsales@...
ad page 15, May/June Woodenboat
Harbor Sales used to be in Baltimore I believe so I suspect
Sudlersville is not too far away.
Bob Chamberland
1000 Harbor Court
Sudlersville, MD 21668
emailsales@...
ad page 15, May/June Woodenboat
Harbor Sales used to be in Baltimore I believe so I suspect
Sudlersville is not too far away.
Bob Chamberland
> Craft. I may look at A/C at Home Depot, but would like to keep thehypothesis.
> weight down so I am leaning toward Okume. Any other suggestions for
> plywood suppliers near Baltimore?
>
> Pete Staehling
>
> > Probably would be "good enough", though.
> >
> >
> > Chris Crandall crandall@u... (785) 864-4131
> > Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS
> 66045
> > I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine
Curtis:
I have some experience with Aluminum. It is easy to work with - you use
regular woodworking tools on it. The problem is that it is not very stiff.
Aluminum sheet that has the same weight and strength as 1/4 inch ply is
floppy as hell. To get the stiffness of wood, you have to increase the
thickness (and weight!). That is why you seldom see small metal boats
unless they are formed into compound curves, or have integral ribs rolled
in. On the other hand, if you don't mind a Teal that is twice as heavy as
wood, it would last forever.
Chuck
I have some experience with Aluminum. It is easy to work with - you use
regular woodworking tools on it. The problem is that it is not very stiff.
Aluminum sheet that has the same weight and strength as 1/4 inch ply is
floppy as hell. To get the stiffness of wood, you have to increase the
thickness (and weight!). That is why you seldom see small metal boats
unless they are formed into compound curves, or have integral ribs rolled
in. On the other hand, if you don't mind a Teal that is twice as heavy as
wood, it would last forever.
Chuck
>
> As I undertake major repairs/modifications of a Diablo (built by
> somebody else), I'm giving serious thought to making my next boat out
> of rot-free, no-paint-needed, bang-it-on-the-rocks, leave-it-out-all-
> winter metal.
>
> I've built with wood/epoxy, but never metal, so it seems like it
> would make sense to start small. Perhaps a first boat for my 5 year
> old to row and sail.
>
> Any thoughts on a quick-and-dirty Teal (should come in at under 100
> lbs) of welded aluminum? I'd cut and stitch together the plates
> (available in longer lengths than ply) over temporary frames, and get
> a local welder to "glue" the seams. I'd probably finish the gunwales
> with foam noodles initially, and add wood rails later. Maybe start
> out with a windsurfer rig I've got on hand.
>
> I faxed PCB with this and some other questions, and got a nice call
> from Suzanne. She suggested Windsprint as being a better "heavy"
> boat, but I'm thinking this may be a lot bigger and more complicated
> than I want for my first experience in metal.
>
> Anybody built in aluminum? Ideas for a simple, HEAVY boat for a kid?
>
> Curtis
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
> - no flogging dead horses
> - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> - stay on topic and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
--- In bolger@y..., staehpj1@h... wrote:
consider this. Leave the frame in. Use a single sheet of Styrofoam on
the floor either side of the frame and cover it with doorskin or a
well finished piece of masonite. This will preserve the strength
imparted by the frame, supply flotation and give you sleeping room.
As to nesting, the after thwart and mast partner will prevent nesting
in any case unless you are willing to dismantle them everytime you
want to nest. The mast partner will get pretty sloppy though after
being undone a number of times. By the way the chine construction is
simple as pie and very strong and neat. A permanent thwart at the
rowing station will certainly be in the way for sailing, but a
removable thwart makes for much more comfortable rowing as opposed to
the little stool.
Bob Chamberland
> I would like to be able to lay down on board if I camp with her, soI
> am considering not using the center frame, except just a temporaryPete, you've probably gotten all of the replies you want but anyway
> one while building. I may add an extra thwart and/or beef up the
> sheer clamps.
> Pete Staehling
consider this. Leave the frame in. Use a single sheet of Styrofoam on
the floor either side of the frame and cover it with doorskin or a
well finished piece of masonite. This will preserve the strength
imparted by the frame, supply flotation and give you sleeping room.
As to nesting, the after thwart and mast partner will prevent nesting
in any case unless you are willing to dismantle them everytime you
want to nest. The mast partner will get pretty sloppy though after
being undone a number of times. By the way the chine construction is
simple as pie and very strong and neat. A permanent thwart at the
rowing station will certainly be in the way for sailing, but a
removable thwart makes for much more comfortable rowing as opposed to
the little stool.
Bob Chamberland
As I undertake major repairs/modifications of a Diablo (built by
somebody else), I'm giving serious thought to making my next boat out
of rot-free, no-paint-needed, bang-it-on-the-rocks, leave-it-out-all-
winter metal.
I've built with wood/epoxy, but never metal, so it seems like it
would make sense to start small. Perhaps a first boat for my 5 year
old to row and sail.
Any thoughts on a quick-and-dirty Teal (should come in at under 100
lbs) of welded aluminum? I'd cut and stitch together the plates
(available in longer lengths than ply) over temporary frames, and get
a local welder to "glue" the seams. I'd probably finish the gunwales
with foam noodles initially, and add wood rails later. Maybe start
out with a windsurfer rig I've got on hand.
I faxed PCB with this and some other questions, and got a nice call
from Suzanne. She suggested Windsprint as being a better "heavy"
boat, but I'm thinking this may be a lot bigger and more complicated
than I want for my first experience in metal.
Anybody built in aluminum? Ideas for a simple, HEAVY boat for a kid?
Curtis
somebody else), I'm giving serious thought to making my next boat out
of rot-free, no-paint-needed, bang-it-on-the-rocks, leave-it-out-all-
winter metal.
I've built with wood/epoxy, but never metal, so it seems like it
would make sense to start small. Perhaps a first boat for my 5 year
old to row and sail.
Any thoughts on a quick-and-dirty Teal (should come in at under 100
lbs) of welded aluminum? I'd cut and stitch together the plates
(available in longer lengths than ply) over temporary frames, and get
a local welder to "glue" the seams. I'd probably finish the gunwales
with foam noodles initially, and add wood rails later. Maybe start
out with a windsurfer rig I've got on hand.
I faxed PCB with this and some other questions, and got a nice call
from Suzanne. She suggested Windsprint as being a better "heavy"
boat, but I'm thinking this may be a lot bigger and more complicated
than I want for my first experience in metal.
Anybody built in aluminum? Ideas for a simple, HEAVY boat for a kid?
Curtis
I'm glad someone finally asked that........
Jim C
-----Original Message-----Chris, I know this is a little off topic, but I'm gonna bite. What in the
From:PseudoDion3@... [mailto:PseudoDion3@...]
Sent:Monday, July 09, 2001 4:11 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:Re: [bolger] Teal Mods, and Other Stuff.
devil is the Duhem-Quine hypothesis?
Dennis Marshall
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
- no flogging dead horses
- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
- stay on topic and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
Chris, I know this is a little off topic, but I'm gonna bite. What in the
devil is the Duhem-Quine hypothesis?
Dennis Marshall
devil is the Duhem-Quine hypothesis?
Dennis Marshall
Regarding getting rid of the middle frame:
What about making a frame that's a bit stronger out of hardwood and
making it removable? I'm sure even a floppy boat is strong enough to
sleep in. You could have some cleats down by the chine to engage it,
and some kind of locking device at the gunwhales that would keep the
gunwhales from spreading outward. Just make sure the surfaces that
engage are a bit more resistant to friction than normal plywood. I
wonder if you could get just a little maple veneer to protect the hull
sides. Or there's always a bit of glass and epoxy tape.
What about making a frame that's a bit stronger out of hardwood and
making it removable? I'm sure even a floppy boat is strong enough to
sleep in. You could have some cleats down by the chine to engage it,
and some kind of locking device at the gunwhales that would keep the
gunwhales from spreading outward. Just make sure the surfaces that
engage are a bit more resistant to friction than normal plywood. I
wonder if you could get just a little maple veneer to protect the hull
sides. Or there's always a bit of glass and epoxy tape.
--- In bolger@y..., staehpj1@h... wrote:
> --- In bolger@y..., Chris Crandall <crandall@u...> wrote:
> > I don't think that this is a good idea. First, there's a lot of
> > "unsupported" space between the stem and stern post. You'd end up
> > with a boat that twists, I think. If you want to lay down, why
not
> > think up a way to raise the bottom, temporarily, to make a flat
> > bed. Perhaps you might get some closed cell styrofoam flotation,
> > and scootch it out to make a bed?
>
> Probably the best bet.
>
>snip
--- In bolger@y..., boatbuilding@g... wrote:
Perhaps the moderator could kick him off of the list until this is
resolved. His mail client is probably replying to any message he
receives. He may not yet know he is infected.
The attachments seem to have a number of different names. Sophos
Antivirus reports "W32/Badtrans-A detected in..."
Mine was labeled searchURL.scr, as an attachment. It was in response
to my last posting on the Tennessee progress.
Jeff
to my last posting on the Tennessee progress.
Jeff
--- In bolger@y..., staehpj1@h... wrote:
> I received a reply to my last Teal posting with an attachment
> (hamster.ZIP.scr) containing a virus.
>
> The message was apparently from James Fuller. He seems to be a
> legitimate poster to this group, but apparently has been infected
by
> a virus. I sent him an email telling him about this. If any of
you
> know him let him know that he needs to get this cleaned up.
>
> Please be careful what you open.
>
> Pete Staehling
I just got another.
I received a reply to my last Teal posting with an attachment
(hamster.ZIP.scr) containing a virus.
The message was apparently from James Fuller. He seems to be a
legitimate poster to this group, but apparently has been infected by
a virus. I sent him an email telling him about this. If any of you
know him let him know that he needs to get this cleaned up.
Please be careful what you open.
Pete Staehling
(hamster.ZIP.scr) containing a virus.
The message was apparently from James Fuller. He seems to be a
legitimate poster to this group, but apparently has been infected by
a virus. I sent him an email telling him about this. If any of you
know him let him know that he needs to get this cleaned up.
Please be careful what you open.
Pete Staehling
--- In bolger@y..., Chris Crandall <crandall@u...> wrote:
nice enough curve, but i will check and double check before I cut the
bottom and use logs (or extra temp forms) if I think it doesn't look
right.
That is also an argument in favor of "good" plywood. It is likely to
have more consistant bending properties.
I am getting excited! I'm ready to place an order to Raka and ready
to buy plywood. I know I can get Okume from Cheasapeake Light
Craft. I may look at A/C at Home Depot, but would like to keep the
weight down so I am leaning toward Okume. Any other suggestions for
plywood suppliers near Baltimore?
Pete Staehling
> I don't think that this is a good idea. First, there's a lot ofProbably the best bet.
> "unsupported" space between the stem and stern post. You'd end up
> with a boat that twists, I think. If you want to lay down, why not
> think up a way to raise the bottom, temporarily, to make a flat
> bed. Perhaps you might get some closed cell styrofoam flotation,
> and scootch it out to make a bed?
> > I don't care for the extended skeg and the non-kickup rudderI can always add a skeg later if I need it.
> > shown on the Teal plans, so I thought I would borrow the rudder
> > configuration from Windsprint.
>
> May not be a bad idea. In the "quick boat" competitions, the skeg
> is dropped out of the plans.
> May be. But the chine logs help define a smooth curve, somethingHadn't thought about that. I suspect that the plywood will take a
> substantially harder to do with taped chines, unless designed for
> it.
nice enough curve, but i will check and double check before I cut the
bottom and use logs (or extra temp forms) if I think it doesn't look
right.
That is also an argument in favor of "good" plywood. It is likely to
have more consistant bending properties.
I am getting excited! I'm ready to place an order to Raka and ready
to buy plywood. I know I can get Okume from Cheasapeake Light
Craft. I may look at A/C at Home Depot, but would like to keep the
weight down so I am leaning toward Okume. Any other suggestions for
plywood suppliers near Baltimore?
Pete Staehling
> Probably would be "good enough", though.66045
>
>
> Chris Crandall crandall@u... (785) 864-4131
> Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS
> I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
On Sun, 8 Jul 2001staehpj1@...wrote:
"unsupported" space between the stem and stern post. You'd end up with a
boat that twists, I think. If you want to lay down, why not think up a
way to raise the bottom, temporarily, to make a flat bed. Perhaps you
might get some closed cell styrofoam flotation, and scootch it out to make
a bed?
substantially weighted with lead. But this is a Teal , why complicate
things?
dropped out of the plans.
substantially harder to do with taped chines, unless designed for it.
Probably would be "good enough", though.
Chris Crandallcrandall@...(785) 864-4131
Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
> I am considering some modifications to Teal and would appreciate anyI don't think that this is a good idea. First, there's a lot of
> comments or suggestions. I would like to be able to lay down on board
> if I camp with her, so I am considering not using the center frame,
> except just a temporary one while building. I may add an extra thwart
> and/or beef up the sheer clamps.
"unsupported" space between the stem and stern post. You'd end up with a
boat that twists, I think. If you want to lay down, why not think up a
way to raise the bottom, temporarily, to make a flat bed. Perhaps you
might get some closed cell styrofoam flotation, and scootch it out to make
a bed?
> If I remove the center frame, will I have to modify the leeboard or atThere isn't much "load" on the board. It floats up easily, unless
> least put something there where it clips around the frame to keep it
> in place, or is it held in place well enough by the load on it?
substantially weighted with lead. But this is a Teal , why complicate
things?
> I don't care for the extended skeg and the non-kickup rudder shown onMay not be a bad idea. In the "quick boat" competitions, the skeg is
> the Teal plans, so I thought I would borrow the rudder configuration
> from Windsprint.
dropped out of the plans.
> I am more used to tape and fillet seams and am considering getting ridMay be. But the chine logs help define a smooth curve, something
> of the chine logs in favor of epoxy/glass seams. That would bump up
> the cost a good bit, but I don't think they are any harder to do
substantially harder to do with taped chines, unless designed for it.
Probably would be "good enough", though.
Chris Crandallcrandall@...(785) 864-4131
Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
Pete,
I would suspect that the added weight you speak of may be very
small if one were to figure out the net difference between the added
weight of the structural"beefing up" required to elliminate the
center-frame VS building to the plans and just adding a few
planks(white pine,cedar?).This raised floor could certainly be
removable with the addition of a couple of nice mahogany toggles.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
I would suspect that the added weight you speak of may be very
small if one were to figure out the net difference between the added
weight of the structural"beefing up" required to elliminate the
center-frame VS building to the plans and just adding a few
planks(white pine,cedar?).This raised floor could certainly be
removable with the addition of a couple of nice mahogany toggles.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
--- In bolger@y..., staehpj1@h... wrote:
>
> Any way it probably would be smart to stick close to the plans with
> structural things like this.
>
> I will have to give this some consideration. It is probably a good
> idea. The only drawback I see is added weight. Perhaps it could be
> removeable? Hey that made me think, maybe a pipe berth arrangement
> or a hammock.
>
> Thanks for the suggestions,
> Pete
--- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
tab afterwards if it seemed to need it.
up in one of his essays.
Pete Staehling
> A mark would probably work to locate it.I thought that might be the case, and I guess I could add a little
tab afterwards if it seemed to need it.
> I think a kick-up rudder is a great thing. Install a lanyard soI planned to do that, ala the one on the kick up rudder Michalak drew
> that you can pull it up manually.
up in one of his essays.
> > I am more used to tape and fillet seams and am considering gettingI kind of thought that was the case.
> > rid of the chine logs in favor of epoxy/glass seams.
> I have done both, and while the external chine log is very simple
> to build, I think the taped seam is superior in strength and
> looks. I would not hesitate to use them alternately on any
> design (that I can think of at the moment).
Pete Staehling
--- In bolger@y..., ellengaest@b... wrote:
than Teal. The mast partner is farther back though AND there is a
little trunk on one side that would strengthen it and distribute the
forces from the board. You mention beefing up the gunwales and
Windsprint also does have some pretty beefy ones.
Any way it probably would be smart to stick close to the plans with
structural things like this.
I suppose they would still nest fine if one had the mast partner and
thwart removeable,
idea. The only drawback I see is added weight. Perhaps it could be
removeable? Hey that made me think, maybe a pipe berth arrangement
or a hammock.
Thanks for the suggestions,
Pete
> Pete,the
> I have never owned a TEAL but did build a SURF and cannot imagine
> how you would get this hull shape to hold its shape without that
> center frame other then really beefing up the gunwales....alot.Even
> then,the forces generated by the leeboard will certainly challenge
> hull sides.Bolger did it with Windsprint. The same basic design, but 4' longer
than Teal. The mast partner is farther back though AND there is a
little trunk on one side that would strengthen it and distribute the
forces from the board. You mention beefing up the gunwales and
Windsprint also does have some pretty beefy ones.
Any way it probably would be smart to stick close to the plans with
structural things like this.
I suppose they would still nest fine if one had the mast partner and
thwart removeable,
> As to offering up suggestions,how about this;keep theplanks
> center-frame,add a thwart at the two ends of the cockpit at exactly
> the same height as the center-frame and layout a few 1/2 thick
> running fore and aft(screwed down) to achieve a uniform levelplatform
> to sit/sleep on while keeping your bedding out of any water whichmay
> find its way into the boat?Sort of like a semi-permanent raisedI will have to give this some consideration. It is probably a good
> cockpit floor?
idea. The only drawback I see is added weight. Perhaps it could be
removeable? Hey that made me think, maybe a pipe berth arrangement
or a hammock.
Thanks for the suggestions,
Pete
Pete,
I have never owned a TEAL but did build a SURF and cannot imagine
how you would get this hull shape to hold its shape without that
center frame other then really beefing up the gunwales....alot.Even
then,the forces generated by the leeboard will certainly challenge the
hull sides.
I do not know what kind of sailor you are but I took my SURF out
in all kinds of weather(also got caught out in some really nasty
stuff) and,even built per plan,I had the hull sides flexing in hard
conditions.Also,if my memory serves me correctly,the leeboard for the
SURF is the same size as that used for the TEAL and will surely act
the same.
I never bothered with a pivoting leeboard since I found it so easy
to just lift out at the last minite when beaching her.The rudder
however,was made to pivot since I usually sailed alone and knew I
couldn't be counted on to handle both the leeboard and rudder at the
same time.........
As to offering up suggestions,how about this;keep the
center-frame,add a thwart at the two ends of the cockpit at exactly
the same height as the center-frame and layout a few 1/2 thick planks
running fore and aft(screwed down) to achieve a uniform level platform
to sit/sleep on while keeping your bedding out of any water which may
find its way into the boat?Sort of like a semi-permanent raised
cockpit floor?
Good luck with your choices!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,stuck home in the drizzle,on the shores of the
St.Lawrence........
I have never owned a TEAL but did build a SURF and cannot imagine
how you would get this hull shape to hold its shape without that
center frame other then really beefing up the gunwales....alot.Even
then,the forces generated by the leeboard will certainly challenge the
hull sides.
I do not know what kind of sailor you are but I took my SURF out
in all kinds of weather(also got caught out in some really nasty
stuff) and,even built per plan,I had the hull sides flexing in hard
conditions.Also,if my memory serves me correctly,the leeboard for the
SURF is the same size as that used for the TEAL and will surely act
the same.
I never bothered with a pivoting leeboard since I found it so easy
to just lift out at the last minite when beaching her.The rudder
however,was made to pivot since I usually sailed alone and knew I
couldn't be counted on to handle both the leeboard and rudder at the
same time.........
As to offering up suggestions,how about this;keep the
center-frame,add a thwart at the two ends of the cockpit at exactly
the same height as the center-frame and layout a few 1/2 thick planks
running fore and aft(screwed down) to achieve a uniform level platform
to sit/sleep on while keeping your bedding out of any water which may
find its way into the boat?Sort of like a semi-permanent raised
cockpit floor?
Good luck with your choices!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,stuck home in the drizzle,on the shores of the
St.Lawrence........
--- In bolger@y..., staehpj1@h... wrote:
> I would like to be able to lay down on board if I camp with her, so
I
> am considering not using the center frame, except just a temporary
> one while building. I may add an extra thwart and/or beef up the
> sheer clamps.
>
>
> I might even consider some kind of kickup leeboard, but I doubt if
it
> is necessary (unlike the kickup rudder that I consider mandatory).
>
> I don't care for the extended skeg and the non-kickup rudder shown
on
> the Teal plans, so I thought I would borrow the rudder configuration
> from Windsprint.
>
> I am more used to tape and fillet seams and am considering getting
> rid of the chine logs in favor of epoxy/glass seams. That would
bump
> up the cost a good bit, but I don't think they are any harder to do
> (easier in my opinion, since I am more used to glass work than wood
> work). I guess they might take a little longer, but not much. They
> look real nice done that way, will nest better, and are less prone
to
> damage and impervious to rot.
>
> Please feel free to make suggestions or comment, even if you think
> some of this is totally nuts!
>
> Pete Staehling
I'll take a crack at some of these, Pete, but remember that free advice is
worth what you pay for it.
be done.
interfere with nesting? I am not sure you would have to have a clip-on type
leeboard held in place for and aft. A mark would probably work to locate
it.
can pull it up manually.
I think the taped seam is superior in strength and looks. I would not
hesitate to use them alternately on any design (that I can think of at the
moment).
Chuck
worth what you pay for it.
> I would like to be able to lay down on board if I camp with her, so IYou might need to beef up the bottom and the gunwales for this to work.
> am considering not using the center frame, except just a temporary
> one while building. I may add an extra thwart and/or beef up the
> sheer clamps.
> I may consider building a second Teal. If I do I would need for themTeal's predecessors, the Grand Banks Dories, were nestable I think it could
> to nest for storage, towing, and hauling. In that case any thwarts,
> frames, etc. would need to be removable in one of them.
be done.
> If I remove the center frame, will I have to modify the leeboard orI really like the pivoting leeboard on my Caprice, but wouldn't that
> at least put something there where it clips around the frame to keep
> it in place, or is it held in place well enough by the load on it?
>
> I might even consider some kind of kickup leeboard, but I doubt if it
> is necessary (unlike the kickup rudder that I consider mandatory).
interfere with nesting? I am not sure you would have to have a clip-on type
leeboard held in place for and aft. A mark would probably work to locate
it.
> I don't care for the extended skeg and the non-kickup rudder shown onI think a kick-up rudder is a great thing. Install a lanyard so that you
> the Teal plans, so I thought I would borrow the rudder configuration
> from Windsprint.
can pull it up manually.
> I am more used to tape and fillet seams and am considering gettingI have done both, and while the external chine log is very simple to build,
> rid of the chine logs in favor of epoxy/glass seams. That would bump
> up the cost a good bit, but I don't think they are any harder to do
> (easier in my opinion, since I am more used to glass work than wood
> work). I guess they might take a little longer, but not much. They
> look real nice done that way, will nest better, and are less prone to
> damage and impervious to rot.
I think the taped seam is superior in strength and looks. I would not
hesitate to use them alternately on any design (that I can think of at the
moment).
Chuck
After thinking about it I decided to build Teal either before or
concurrently with the Nymph sail rig. I think some of the parts may
wind up being interchangable between the two boats.
I am considering some modifications to Teal and would appreciate any
comments or suggestions.
I would like to be able to lay down on board if I camp with her, so I
am considering not using the center frame, except just a temporary
one while building. I may add an extra thwart and/or beef up the
sheer clamps.
I may consider building a second Teal. If I do I would need for them
to nest for storage, towing, and hauling. In that case any thwarts,
frames, etc. would need to be removeable in one of them.
If I remove the center frame, will I have to modify the leeboard or
at least put something there where it clips around the frame to keep
it in place, or is it held in place well enough by the load on it?
I might even consider some kind of kickup leeboard, but I doubt if it
is necessary (unlike the kickup rudder that I consider mandatory).
I don't care for the extended skeg and the non-kickup rudder shown on
the Teal plans, so I thought I would borrow the rudder configuration
from Windsprint.
I am more used to tape and fillet seams and am considering getting
rid of the chine logs in favor of epoxy/glass seams. That would bump
up the cost a good bit, but I don't think they are any harder to do
(easier in my opinion, since I am more used to glass work than wood
work). I guess they might take a little longer, but not much. They
look real nice done that way, will nest better, and are less prone to
damage and impervious to rot.
Please feel free to make suggestions or comment, even if you think
some of this is totally nuts!
Pete Staehling
concurrently with the Nymph sail rig. I think some of the parts may
wind up being interchangable between the two boats.
I am considering some modifications to Teal and would appreciate any
comments or suggestions.
I would like to be able to lay down on board if I camp with her, so I
am considering not using the center frame, except just a temporary
one while building. I may add an extra thwart and/or beef up the
sheer clamps.
I may consider building a second Teal. If I do I would need for them
to nest for storage, towing, and hauling. In that case any thwarts,
frames, etc. would need to be removeable in one of them.
If I remove the center frame, will I have to modify the leeboard or
at least put something there where it clips around the frame to keep
it in place, or is it held in place well enough by the load on it?
I might even consider some kind of kickup leeboard, but I doubt if it
is necessary (unlike the kickup rudder that I consider mandatory).
I don't care for the extended skeg and the non-kickup rudder shown on
the Teal plans, so I thought I would borrow the rudder configuration
from Windsprint.
I am more used to tape and fillet seams and am considering getting
rid of the chine logs in favor of epoxy/glass seams. That would bump
up the cost a good bit, but I don't think they are any harder to do
(easier in my opinion, since I am more used to glass work than wood
work). I guess they might take a little longer, but not much. They
look real nice done that way, will nest better, and are less prone to
damage and impervious to rot.
Please feel free to make suggestions or comment, even if you think
some of this is totally nuts!
Pete Staehling