Re: cartopper flotation
I've got the sprit boom leg 'o mutton. I love the rig. I've
installed reefpoints and they've come in very handy. She balances
well when reefed.
John
installed reefpoints and they've come in very handy. She balances
well when reefed.
John
--- In bolger@y..., jhkohnen@b... wrote:
> John-
>
> Are you using the loose-footed spritsail rig, or the leg o' mutton?
John-
Are you using the loose-footed spritsail rig, or the leg o' mutton? Though
I've never had that rhythmic "death roll" in my sprit-rigged skiff it does
feel a bit out of control running dead downwind in a breeze, so I tack
downwind unless I just can't get where I'm going that way. I like the rig
for everything but running straight downwind, there's just too much twist
in the sail then. My skiff is fat, with lots of initial stability, so
unintended jibes aren't too bad, even in a breeze, and I don't have to
worry about getting cracked on the head by a boom. <g> Even Chinese jibes
aren't too dramatic with a loose-footed spritsail. I've thought that the
sprit-boomed leg o' mutton rig would give better control downwind though,
is that not the case?
Are you using the loose-footed spritsail rig, or the leg o' mutton? Though
I've never had that rhythmic "death roll" in my sprit-rigged skiff it does
feel a bit out of control running dead downwind in a breeze, so I tack
downwind unless I just can't get where I'm going that way. I like the rig
for everything but running straight downwind, there's just too much twist
in the sail then. My skiff is fat, with lots of initial stability, so
unintended jibes aren't too bad, even in a breeze, and I don't have to
worry about getting cracked on the head by a boom. <g> Even Chinese jibes
aren't too dramatic with a loose-footed spritsail. I've thought that the
sprit-boomed leg o' mutton rig would give better control downwind though,
is that not the case?
On Mon, 16 Jul 2001 02:31:25 -0000, John O'Neill wrote:
> ...
>
> I haven't tried other flotation schemes. My defense has evolved into
> avoiding shallow water when going downwind (she'll try hard to broach
> if the rudder grabs mud) avoiding direct downwind courses in a
> breeze, especially if it's shifting and/or gusty,
> ...
> My scariest moment, when I felt the least in control of Cartopper,
> was when the wind suddenly popped up, very strong, again downwind,
> just as I was entering some choppy water, alone, over a bar on the
> Napa River. Wind against tide and all that, and we went into a
> rythmic roll. It seemed to go on and on and just as I thought I had
> it under control we went over too far.
> ...
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
I care not for a man's religion whose dog or cat are not the better for it.
<Abraham Lincoln>
I tried flotation under the platform on my Cartopper. I ended up
taking it out. It's too low, so when she's swamped she just tends to
lean over to one side or the other, making her still more unstable,
and it doesn't buy you much anyway. Bailing is a snap in an open
boat and it only takes a minute to dump the amount of water out that
the flotation would otherwise keep out.
I've dumped Cartopper twice, and I've put water in her well up over
the platform several times. On each occasion I was alone in the
boat, going downwind in shifting, gusty, strong breezes. (She's much
more stable with some weight in her.) I've never turned her turtle,
but my brother did once, again, sailing alone downwind. The best
bailing technique is to lean her so one gunwale is almost in the
water, and scoop like mad with a five gallon bucket. For one handed
bailing I use a big plastic apple juice container with the top cut
off. I always carry both.
I haven't tried other flotation schemes. My defense has evolved into
avoiding shallow water when going downwind (she'll try hard to broach
if the rudder grabs mud) avoiding direct downwind courses in a
breeze, especially if it's shifting and/or gusty, and never, *ever*
*ever*, letting go of the tiller downwind in any kind of real
breeze. The rudder is huge and powerful and there's lots of weather
helm designed in (on purpose), and she'll roll instantly under the
right (wrong!) conditions if you let go. I change positions towards
the stern when I gybe, so I can shift hands in front of me rather
than behind, to ensure I always have absolute, positive control of
the tiller.
My scariest moment, when I felt the least in control of Cartopper,
was when the wind suddenly popped up, very strong, again downwind,
just as I was entering some choppy water, alone, over a bar on the
Napa River. Wind against tide and all that, and we went into a
rythmic roll. It seemed to go on and on and just as I thought I had
it under control we went over too far. She didn't go all the way
over but it was a very near thing. The chop was a real problem, so
we kind of set ourselves (Cartopper and I--I wasn't in this alone you
see) up on a reach with the sail broad off, luffing, keeping just a
little way on. She's so dry with that high bow that even almost
swamped she doesn't ship water--at least over the bow! That worked
for a while, but our new course was taking us straight at a nasty
looking breakwater. I bailed like something possessed but eventually
we had to sheet in and head up. That little girl wasn't sailing at
her best just then, to say the least, but she bulled herself upwind
and out of the way of that bad ol' breakwater, even 1/4 full of
water, like a little champion, chop and all, and didn't ship a drop
more water. None.
Good little boat.
John O'Neill
taking it out. It's too low, so when she's swamped she just tends to
lean over to one side or the other, making her still more unstable,
and it doesn't buy you much anyway. Bailing is a snap in an open
boat and it only takes a minute to dump the amount of water out that
the flotation would otherwise keep out.
I've dumped Cartopper twice, and I've put water in her well up over
the platform several times. On each occasion I was alone in the
boat, going downwind in shifting, gusty, strong breezes. (She's much
more stable with some weight in her.) I've never turned her turtle,
but my brother did once, again, sailing alone downwind. The best
bailing technique is to lean her so one gunwale is almost in the
water, and scoop like mad with a five gallon bucket. For one handed
bailing I use a big plastic apple juice container with the top cut
off. I always carry both.
I haven't tried other flotation schemes. My defense has evolved into
avoiding shallow water when going downwind (she'll try hard to broach
if the rudder grabs mud) avoiding direct downwind courses in a
breeze, especially if it's shifting and/or gusty, and never, *ever*
*ever*, letting go of the tiller downwind in any kind of real
breeze. The rudder is huge and powerful and there's lots of weather
helm designed in (on purpose), and she'll roll instantly under the
right (wrong!) conditions if you let go. I change positions towards
the stern when I gybe, so I can shift hands in front of me rather
than behind, to ensure I always have absolute, positive control of
the tiller.
My scariest moment, when I felt the least in control of Cartopper,
was when the wind suddenly popped up, very strong, again downwind,
just as I was entering some choppy water, alone, over a bar on the
Napa River. Wind against tide and all that, and we went into a
rythmic roll. It seemed to go on and on and just as I thought I had
it under control we went over too far. She didn't go all the way
over but it was a very near thing. The chop was a real problem, so
we kind of set ourselves (Cartopper and I--I wasn't in this alone you
see) up on a reach with the sail broad off, luffing, keeping just a
little way on. She's so dry with that high bow that even almost
swamped she doesn't ship water--at least over the bow! That worked
for a while, but our new course was taking us straight at a nasty
looking breakwater. I bailed like something possessed but eventually
we had to sheet in and head up. That little girl wasn't sailing at
her best just then, to say the least, but she bulled herself upwind
and out of the way of that bad ol' breakwater, even 1/4 full of
water, like a little champion, chop and all, and didn't ship a drop
more water. None.
Good little boat.
John O'Neill
--- In bolger@y..., "Dawn and Derek" <dgw@d...> wrote:
> Any Cartopper builders out there with flotation hints they'd like
to share?
> It looks like I could get enough foam under the floor platform to
do part of
> the job, but not enough to make self-rescue easy... I was thinking
of boxing
> in some volume across the transom, maybe some foam under the
foresheets, or
> maybe just some cleats in the bilge fore & aft to attach homemade
buoyancy
> bags. Suggestions?
>
> Derek
I have been giving this one a lot of thought as I am about
to turn two teenage boys loose on Alaskan waters, with
little or no supervision in two cartoppers. My current
thinking is epoxing some tie down rings on each side for and
aft of the platform , and tie in in some inflatable
flotation bags. They would be easy to remove and camping
gear would fit in between them. I would welcome other
thoughts. I don't want to close in any part of the boats if
I can help it.
HJ
Dawn and Derek wrote:
to turn two teenage boys loose on Alaskan waters, with
little or no supervision in two cartoppers. My current
thinking is epoxing some tie down rings on each side for and
aft of the platform , and tie in in some inflatable
flotation bags. They would be easy to remove and camping
gear would fit in between them. I would welcome other
thoughts. I don't want to close in any part of the boats if
I can help it.
HJ
Dawn and Derek wrote:
>
> Any Cartopper builders out there with flotation hints they'd like to share?
> It looks like I could get enough foam under the floor platform to do part of
> the job, but not enough to make self-rescue easy... I was thinking of boxing
> in some volume across the transom, maybe some foam under the foresheets, or
> maybe just some cleats in the bilge fore & aft to attach homemade buoyancy
> bags. Suggestions?
>
Any Cartopper builders out there with flotation hints they'd like to share?
It looks like I could get enough foam under the floor platform to do part of
the job, but not enough to make self-rescue easy... I was thinking of boxing
in some volume across the transom, maybe some foam under the foresheets, or
maybe just some cleats in the bilge fore & aft to attach homemade buoyancy
bags. Suggestions?
Derek
It looks like I could get enough foam under the floor platform to do part of
the job, but not enough to make self-rescue easy... I was thinking of boxing
in some volume across the transom, maybe some foam under the foresheets, or
maybe just some cleats in the bilge fore & aft to attach homemade buoyancy
bags. Suggestions?
Derek