RE: [bolger] Re: bulkhead (Frame) construction question
Hey Chris, where's your priorities? Furniture gets the quick and dirty,
boats get the TLC.
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Crandall [mailto:crandall@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 1:58 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: bulkhead (Frame) construction question
I'll go with all who say screw and glue. I've done it that way several
times, and no problemo on any of my (6) boats built that way.
Do seal end grain, though.
You're building a boat, not a piece of furniture. Don't do fussy tricky
stuff that has no value other than to increase your own satisfcation in
your skills.
If that's your motive, then do as you please. But keep in mind that it
slows you down, and it adds so very little else. And are you making
furniture and museum pieces, or enjoying your boat and its building?
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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boats get the TLC.
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Crandall [mailto:crandall@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 1:58 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: bulkhead (Frame) construction question
I'll go with all who say screw and glue. I've done it that way several
times, and no problemo on any of my (6) boats built that way.
Do seal end grain, though.
You're building a boat, not a piece of furniture. Don't do fussy tricky
stuff that has no value other than to increase your own satisfcation in
your skills.
If that's your motive, then do as you please. But keep in mind that it
slows you down, and it adds so very little else. And are you making
furniture and museum pieces, or enjoying your boat and its building?
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Actually, the reason I asked was that one builder of traditional
boats, Nat Wilson, who built Peter Bevan's boat wrote "The frames
were made with Oregon pine, morticed, tenoned and half lapped
together, and glued and screwed with Rescourcinol glue and brass
screws" in SWBANS newsletter as described at
http://fox.nstn.ca/~swbans/jan98.htm
Screw and glue sounds good to me. I just need to go through and make
sure I understand the plans thoroughly before I decide whether to do
it or not. Keep banging my head on the Dovekies roof, going between
hatches. Of course, if anyone has a BW for sale, don't be shy.
Too bad I missed Peter Bevan's Birdwatcher site before it was removed.
Thanks,
Paul
boats, Nat Wilson, who built Peter Bevan's boat wrote "The frames
were made with Oregon pine, morticed, tenoned and half lapped
together, and glued and screwed with Rescourcinol glue and brass
screws" in SWBANS newsletter as described at
http://fox.nstn.ca/~swbans/jan98.htm
Screw and glue sounds good to me. I just need to go through and make
sure I understand the plans thoroughly before I decide whether to do
it or not. Keep banging my head on the Dovekies roof, going between
hatches. Of course, if anyone has a BW for sale, don't be shy.
Too bad I missed Peter Bevan's Birdwatcher site before it was removed.
Thanks,
Paul
--- In bolger@y..., Chris Crandall <crandall@u...> wrote:
> I'll go with all who say screw and glue. I've done it that way
several
> times, and no problemo on any of my (6) boats built that way.
>
> Do seal end grain, though.
>
> You're building a boat, not a piece of furniture. Don't do fussy
tricky
> stuff that has no value other than to increase your own
satisfcation in
> your skills.
>
> If that's your motive, then do as you please. But keep in mind
that it
> slows you down, and it adds so very little else. And are you making
> furniture and museum pieces, or enjoying your boat and its building?
I'll go with all who say screw and glue. I've done it that way several
times, and no problemo on any of my (6) boats built that way.
Do seal end grain, though.
You're building a boat, not a piece of furniture. Don't do fussy tricky
stuff that has no value other than to increase your own satisfcation in
your skills.
If that's your motive, then do as you please. But keep in mind that it
slows you down, and it adds so very little else. And are you making
furniture and museum pieces, or enjoying your boat and its building?
times, and no problemo on any of my (6) boats built that way.
Do seal end grain, though.
You're building a boat, not a piece of furniture. Don't do fussy tricky
stuff that has no value other than to increase your own satisfcation in
your skills.
If that's your motive, then do as you please. But keep in mind that it
slows you down, and it adds so very little else. And are you making
furniture and museum pieces, or enjoying your boat and its building?
> I just glue and screw the pieces to the ply -- but note that JimI have had such bad luck with silicone. The stuff seems to shrink
> Michalak mentions that when sloppily done, this joint can have an
> opening that is one of the first places for rot to begin. If you saw
> the end of one piece 1/8" or 1/4" short, be sure to fill the gap with
> epoxy, or at least some silicone caulk later in the process.
whenever given the chance, and now I only use it for a gasket material
between two compressed parts.
Shorty
> Are the spruce pieces morticed and tenoned together, halfI just glue and screw the pieces to the ply -- but note that Jim
> lapped together, or just screwed and glued to the plywood
Michalak mentions that when sloppily done, this joint can have an
opening that is one of the first places for rot to begin. If you saw
the end of one piece 1/8" or 1/4" short, be sure to fill the gap with
epoxy, or at least some silicone caulk later in the process.
If you have been naughty, motice and tenon for penance.
If you havent, butt, glue and nail.
You will have more time to be naughty, and the boat won't know the
difference.
DonB
If you havent, butt, glue and nail.
You will have more time to be naughty, and the boat won't know the
difference.
DonB
> In looking over Birdwatcher plans I was looking at the details ofthe
> frame construction and had a question. As an example lets say Frameto
> A, consists of 1/4" plywood, 3/4" x 1 1/2" spruce and 3/4" x 2 1/2"
> spruce. Are the spruce pieces morticed and tenoned together, half
> lapped together, or just screwed and glued to the plywood? Some
> frames have very little plywood, so I assume its up to the builder
> use his best judgement.a
>
> Does anyone have any links that might show frame examples? Is there
> book that explains how to use plans like this? One of Payson'sbooks
> perhaps? I'm sure I've taken out one of his Instant Boatbuildingof
> books but I seem to recall these covered tack and tape. What kind
> construction is this called where the frames are built first, then
> the plywood attached to the sides?
>
> I had a question about bevelling but found one of Michalaks Essays
> covered that one. Excellent series of articles.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Paul
oops! correction:
Not "1/2 the width of the router base", but rather, the distance from
the cutting edge of the router bit to the edge of the router base.
Not "1/2 the width of the router base", but rather, the distance from
the cutting edge of the router bit to the edge of the router base.
I tend to be a belt and suspenders type; and I would half-lap the
joints. There aren't that many and it doesn't take much extra effort. I
would cut all the pieces, clamp them flat on bench the with the ends
aligned and a guide clamped 1/2 the width of my router base plus the
width of the stock from the ends. Set the router depth 1/2 the
thickness and cut a bunch all at once. Err on the side of removing a
touch more rather than too little, because filled with thickened epoxy
it is stronger than a perfect cut. An alternative if you want more
strength would be to add gussets on the opposite side of the framing
material and/or triangular blocks at the inside corners of the frames (ugly).
Vince Chew
joints. There aren't that many and it doesn't take much extra effort. I
would cut all the pieces, clamp them flat on bench the with the ends
aligned and a guide clamped 1/2 the width of my router base plus the
width of the stock from the ends. Set the router depth 1/2 the
thickness and cut a bunch all at once. Err on the side of removing a
touch more rather than too little, because filled with thickened epoxy
it is stronger than a perfect cut. An alternative if you want more
strength would be to add gussets on the opposite side of the framing
material and/or triangular blocks at the inside corners of the frames (ugly).
Vince Chew
Paul:
It aint called "Rocket Science". I have heard it called Instant or
simplified boatbuilding, but whatever it is, it is against the rules to even
use the words "mortise" or "tenon" around one of these boats, never mind on
them ;-). Just glue the boards to the bulkheads - if you really have to,
screw them too.
Chuck
<snip>
It aint called "Rocket Science". I have heard it called Instant or
simplified boatbuilding, but whatever it is, it is against the rules to even
use the words "mortise" or "tenon" around one of these boats, never mind on
them ;-). Just glue the boards to the bulkheads - if you really have to,
screw them too.
Chuck
<snip>
> Does anyone have any links that might show frame examples? Is there a
> book that explains how to use plans like this? One of Payson's books
> perhaps? I'm sure I've taken out one of his Instant Boatbuilding
> books but I seem to recall these covered tack and tape. What kind of
> construction is this called where the frames are built first, then
> the plywood attached to the sides?
>
> I had a question about bevelling but found one of Michalaks Essays
> covered that one. Excellent series of articles.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Paul
>
>
All I've ever done is to glue and nail (or screw, but nails are easier and
faster) the framing to the plywood webs. The framing pieces are butted
together with only a dab of glue, 5200, or epoxy in between. I suppose in a
perfect world the framing would be joined with mortise and tenons or
half-lapped as you describe. But remember, the framing is all held on two
adjacent sides since the bulkheads are all eventually fastened to the
topsides, bottom, or deck with glue and/or screws/nails. It's pretty darn
stout even with the butt joints. My advice is to forget the fancy joinery
unless that kind of fine woodworking really turns you on.
JB in Kennesaw where "Mr. Moon" (my AF4) is finally complete.
faster) the framing to the plywood webs. The framing pieces are butted
together with only a dab of glue, 5200, or epoxy in between. I suppose in a
perfect world the framing would be joined with mortise and tenons or
half-lapped as you describe. But remember, the framing is all held on two
adjacent sides since the bulkheads are all eventually fastened to the
topsides, bottom, or deck with glue and/or screws/nails. It's pretty darn
stout even with the butt joints. My advice is to forget the fancy joinery
unless that kind of fine woodworking really turns you on.
JB in Kennesaw where "Mr. Moon" (my AF4) is finally complete.
----- Original Message -----
From: <kayaker37@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 9:41 PM
Subject: [bolger] bulkhead (Frame) construction question
| In looking over Birdwatcher plans I was looking at the details of the
| frame construction and had a question. As an example lets say Frame
| A, consists of 1/4" plywood, 3/4" x 1 1/2" spruce and 3/4" x 2 1/2"
| spruce. Are the spruce pieces morticed and tenoned together, half
| lapped together, or just screwed and glued to the plywood? Some
| frames have very little plywood, so I assume its up to the builder to
| use his best judgement.
|
| Does anyone have any links that might show frame examples? Is there a
| book that explains how to use plans like this? One of Payson's books
| perhaps? I'm sure I've taken out one of his Instant Boatbuilding
| books but I seem to recall these covered tack and tape. What kind of
| construction is this called where the frames are built first, then
| the plywood attached to the sides?
|
| I had a question about bevelling but found one of Michalaks Essays
| covered that one. Excellent series of articles.
|
| Thanks in advance,
| Paul
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
| - no flogging dead horses
| - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
| - stay on topic and punctuate
| - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
| - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
|
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
|
In looking over Birdwatcher plans I was looking at the details of the
frame construction and had a question. As an example lets say Frame
A, consists of 1/4" plywood, 3/4" x 1 1/2" spruce and 3/4" x 2 1/2"
spruce. Are the spruce pieces morticed and tenoned together, half
lapped together, or just screwed and glued to the plywood? Some
frames have very little plywood, so I assume its up to the builder to
use his best judgement.
Does anyone have any links that might show frame examples? Is there a
book that explains how to use plans like this? One of Payson's books
perhaps? I'm sure I've taken out one of his Instant Boatbuilding
books but I seem to recall these covered tack and tape. What kind of
construction is this called where the frames are built first, then
the plywood attached to the sides?
I had a question about bevelling but found one of Michalaks Essays
covered that one. Excellent series of articles.
Thanks in advance,
Paul
frame construction and had a question. As an example lets say Frame
A, consists of 1/4" plywood, 3/4" x 1 1/2" spruce and 3/4" x 2 1/2"
spruce. Are the spruce pieces morticed and tenoned together, half
lapped together, or just screwed and glued to the plywood? Some
frames have very little plywood, so I assume its up to the builder to
use his best judgement.
Does anyone have any links that might show frame examples? Is there a
book that explains how to use plans like this? One of Payson's books
perhaps? I'm sure I've taken out one of his Instant Boatbuilding
books but I seem to recall these covered tack and tape. What kind of
construction is this called where the frames are built first, then
the plywood attached to the sides?
I had a question about bevelling but found one of Michalaks Essays
covered that one. Excellent series of articles.
Thanks in advance,
Paul