[bolger] Re: The Light Schooner
BO>Oh, come on, Tim, relax.
BO>The likelyhood of capsize is similar whether with captain and 7 knot breeze
BO>or captain and crew of 4 and a twenty knot breeze. I guess I would have to
BO>wager the danger of getting someone wet is 5 times more likely in the
BO>latter case.
I believe that's wrong, also, but let it go.
Gregg, perhaps the reason I'm not relaxed is having had, as the local
OOD, to organise the rescue of a Hobie Cat and its tyro crew in what
should be the safest area of the Lower Murray, at Clayton Bay, in
moderate winds, the other weekend. It wasn't a mayday situation, it
wasn't particularly deep water, it's summer, but they were still
hypothermic and very tired at the end. It was late afternoon, almost
everyone else had gone home, etc etc.
BO>I've pitched-poled more Nacras, rolled more lasers, flipped more sunfish,
BO>and fell off more more sailboards than I can count. I even broke off a
BO>tooth on a jetski. Dangerous?
Yes. Not one of those craft is an open boat with high cockpit volume.
Nor are they as big or heavy.
BO>Sorry, but the light scooner is hardly a serious boat, and any non-swimmer
BO>night sailing his grandma in frigid water should - well, he should be advise
And that's unnecessarily flip. The scooner is a fun boat, but I don't
want to be anywhere near anybody who's skippering one without taking it
seriously. For that matter, I don't want to be near =anyone= in a
sizeable or fast watercraft who doesn't take it seriously, even when
they're having fun.
Gregg, much of this difference is probably arising from differences in
where we sail, and under what conditions. Would you view the boat in
the same way if your home grounds were in Nova Scotia? or Puget Sound?
Tim & Flying Tadpole
BO>The likelyhood of capsize is similar whether with captain and 7 knot breeze
BO>or captain and crew of 4 and a twenty knot breeze. I guess I would have to
BO>wager the danger of getting someone wet is 5 times more likely in the
BO>latter case.
I believe that's wrong, also, but let it go.
Gregg, perhaps the reason I'm not relaxed is having had, as the local
OOD, to organise the rescue of a Hobie Cat and its tyro crew in what
should be the safest area of the Lower Murray, at Clayton Bay, in
moderate winds, the other weekend. It wasn't a mayday situation, it
wasn't particularly deep water, it's summer, but they were still
hypothermic and very tired at the end. It was late afternoon, almost
everyone else had gone home, etc etc.
BO>I've pitched-poled more Nacras, rolled more lasers, flipped more sunfish,
BO>and fell off more more sailboards than I can count. I even broke off a
BO>tooth on a jetski. Dangerous?
Yes. Not one of those craft is an open boat with high cockpit volume.
Nor are they as big or heavy.
BO>Sorry, but the light scooner is hardly a serious boat, and any non-swimmer
BO>night sailing his grandma in frigid water should - well, he should be advise
And that's unnecessarily flip. The scooner is a fun boat, but I don't
want to be anywhere near anybody who's skippering one without taking it
seriously. For that matter, I don't want to be near =anyone= in a
sizeable or fast watercraft who doesn't take it seriously, even when
they're having fun.
Gregg, much of this difference is probably arising from differences in
where we sail, and under what conditions. Would you view the boat in
the same way if your home grounds were in Nova Scotia? or Puget Sound?
Tim & Flying Tadpole
BO>The rig is just fine for single-handing; of course, it's a handful and
BO>you're might light on ballast (how big a boy are ya?).
Gregg, this is not only wrong, but it's potentially dangerous advice for
anyone sailing an LS anywhere other than in shallow, very confined, warm
water. The rig and boat can be singlehanded: this is not the same as
being "just fine for singlehanding".
Safe singlehanding is only going to happen in reasonable to moderate
conditions under a reefed main and nothing else - the "disaster rig" of
our how-to-sail-a-light-schooner notes - why bother? why not just sail a
Laser and be done with it?
Singlehanded with an actual schooner rig up on the LS is asking for a
lot of trouble if any sort of wind fires up, particularly given the
open-boat swamping syndrome which you too have experienced.
The singlehanded schooner was designed preciesly for the singlehanded
situation, and should be the one looked at if singlehanding is going to
be anything more that the occasional exception.
Tim & Flying Tadpole
Sailing Tips for the Light Schooner on
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/tipsndx.htm
BO>you're might light on ballast (how big a boy are ya?).
Gregg, this is not only wrong, but it's potentially dangerous advice for
anyone sailing an LS anywhere other than in shallow, very confined, warm
water. The rig and boat can be singlehanded: this is not the same as
being "just fine for singlehanding".
Safe singlehanding is only going to happen in reasonable to moderate
conditions under a reefed main and nothing else - the "disaster rig" of
our how-to-sail-a-light-schooner notes - why bother? why not just sail a
Laser and be done with it?
Singlehanded with an actual schooner rig up on the LS is asking for a
lot of trouble if any sort of wind fires up, particularly given the
open-boat swamping syndrome which you too have experienced.
The singlehanded schooner was designed preciesly for the singlehanded
situation, and should be the one looked at if singlehanding is going to
be anything more that the occasional exception.
Tim & Flying Tadpole
Sailing Tips for the Light Schooner on
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/tipsndx.htm
> >... if you were to get in trouble (i.e. capsize), odds are oneOuch. Good point...
> > of the thousands of powerboats or PWC's scurrying all around would
> come to
> > your assistance.
>
>
>
> That is enough reason to sail carefully...Just the though of having to
> be "rescued" by someone who has to use a jet engine to swim....
>
>
> DGO..
>
JB
>... if you were to get in trouble (i.e. capsize), odds are onecome to
> of the thousands of powerboats or PWC's scurrying all around would
> your assistance.That is enough reason to sail carefully...Just the though of having to
be "rescued" by someone who has to use a jet engine to swim....
DGO..
> Tim the Schooner Skipper Extraordinaire wrote:You've hit the nail on the head, here. Those of us who (myself included)
>
> Gregg, much of this difference is probably arising from differences in
> where we sail, and under what conditions. Would you view the boat in
> the same way if your home grounds were in Nova Scotia? or Puget Sound?
>
> Tim & Flying Tadpole
sail on small inland lakes and reservoirs don't really have the same
perspective on what constitutes prudent boat handling as those who sail on
bigger, wilder, more exposed waters. Here, the wind seldom is much over
10-12 knots and if you were to get in trouble (i.e. capsize), odds are one
of the thousands of powerboats or PWC's scurrying all around would come to
your assistance. My normal lake is small enough at 1.5 miles long and 1/3 of
a mile wide to easily swim to safety provided you're wearing your life
jacket. Since it was real hard to get in too much trouble, I used to blast
around in my Windsprint carrying much more sail than was prudent. The
consequences were not that serious. When I did get out on bigger water, I
was always much more cautious.
The time I get most conservative in a boat is when my daughter is aboard.
Precious cargo tends to focus one's attention.
The one time I could have got in big trouble around here we were sailing a
Cape Dory Typhoon (a 19' 2000 lbs full keel sloop designed by Alberg) on
Lake Lanier when a severe thunderstorm caught us. It blew over 50 mph for
about 10 minutes whipping the lake into steep 5 foot waves. I learned a lot
that day. The biggest lesson was get the heck off the water when you see a
thunderstorm brewing, especially when you're in a small, light open boat. (I
was glad were in the Typhoon since it handled the weather so well. Returning
to the dock after the storm we saw a turtled Capri 14.2.)
JB
Oh, come on, Tim, relax.
The likelyhood of capsize is similar whether with captain and 7 knot breeze
or captain and crew of 4 and a twenty knot breeze. I guess I would have to
wager the danger of getting someone wet is 5 times more likely in the
latter case.
I've pitched-poled more Nacras, rolled more lasers, flipped more sunfish,
and fell off more more sailboards than I can count. I even broke off a
tooth on a jetski. Dangerous?
Sorry, but the light scooner is hardly a serious boat, and any non-swimmer
night sailing his grandma in frigid water should - well, he should be advised.
Gregg C.
At 08:27 AM 12/22/99 -93000, you wrote:
BO>The rig is just fine for single-handing; of course, it's a handful and
The likelyhood of capsize is similar whether with captain and 7 knot breeze
or captain and crew of 4 and a twenty knot breeze. I guess I would have to
wager the danger of getting someone wet is 5 times more likely in the
latter case.
I've pitched-poled more Nacras, rolled more lasers, flipped more sunfish,
and fell off more more sailboards than I can count. I even broke off a
tooth on a jetski. Dangerous?
Sorry, but the light scooner is hardly a serious boat, and any non-swimmer
night sailing his grandma in frigid water should - well, he should be advised.
Gregg C.
At 08:27 AM 12/22/99 -93000, you wrote:
BO>The rig is just fine for single-handing; of course, it's a handful and
>BO>you're might light on ballast (how big a boy are ya?).
>
>Gregg, this is not only wrong, but it's potentially dangerous advice for
>anyone sailing an LS anywhere other than in shallow, very confined, warm
>water. The rig and boat can be singlehanded: this is not the same as
>being "just fine for singlehanding".
>Safe singlehanding is only going to happen in reasonable to moderate
>conditions under a reefed main and nothing else - the "disaster rig" of
>our how-to-sail-a-light-schooner notes - why bother? why not just sail a
>Laser and be done with it?
>
>Singlehanded with an actual schooner rig up on the LS is asking for a
>lot of trouble if any sort of wind fires up, particularly given the
>open-boat swamping syndrome which you too have experienced.
>
>The singlehanded schooner was designed preciesly for the singlehanded
>situation, and should be the one looked at if singlehanding is going to
>be anything more that the occasional exception.
>
>Tim & Flying Tadpole
>Sailing Tips for the Light Schooner on
>http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/tipsndx.htm
>
>
>
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>
Thanks Mike,
You are too kind (Tim, can you do my link in one higher font size?)
I seriously doubt those electrics will drive 1-3/8" staples like the
pneumatic. I looked for Monel, but couldn't justify the minimums, so I used
galvanised. There they stay, sealed in epoxy. I can't say enough good
about the stapler and chine logs - much easier than stitch and glue.
I found lots of flagpoles on the internet, and probably only a couple mfg's
of aluminum. I selected a 3" by 17' pair, if I recall. I ended up
ordering from a small local flag company in Tulsa; they gave me the same
price ($199 each). They seem just fine, although they are fully tapered
rather than straight up to the gaff jaws.
I have not been back over, but I'll try it in the spring. I "sealed" the
masts with leather; hopefully, those will float out of the water, or we'll
be quick. Alternatively, you could also epoxy PVC pipes.
The rig is just fine for single-handing; of course, it's a handful and
you're might light on ballast (how big a boy are ya?). Drop the foremain,
sail under main and "auto" jib. Then, reef the main, then, drop the jib,
etc. Our staysail is nylon, so you could pop that up anytime when you run
downwind. During all this, the balance certainly moves around, but you've
got a powerful rudder and daggerboard.
I suppose you could also provide a small yawl mizzen provided you could
work out the tiller and set the foremain. But, why not think of it like a
canard airplane, big main and small club-footed jib up front. There it is,
and it keeps it in schooner character.
Think about ballast, though, that's the problem. How about some big PVC
cylinders and pump, maybe a 2x8 on a slide, a long tiller extension and
trapeze...
By the way, the thing scoots along at a great clip on 2 Hp, too.
It's a great boat, have fun with it. And, you know, it's just a daysailor...
Gregg Carlson
At 09:38 AM 12/21/99 EST, you wrote:
You are too kind (Tim, can you do my link in one higher font size?)
I seriously doubt those electrics will drive 1-3/8" staples like the
pneumatic. I looked for Monel, but couldn't justify the minimums, so I used
galvanised. There they stay, sealed in epoxy. I can't say enough good
about the stapler and chine logs - much easier than stitch and glue.
I found lots of flagpoles on the internet, and probably only a couple mfg's
of aluminum. I selected a 3" by 17' pair, if I recall. I ended up
ordering from a small local flag company in Tulsa; they gave me the same
price ($199 each). They seem just fine, although they are fully tapered
rather than straight up to the gaff jaws.
I have not been back over, but I'll try it in the spring. I "sealed" the
masts with leather; hopefully, those will float out of the water, or we'll
be quick. Alternatively, you could also epoxy PVC pipes.
The rig is just fine for single-handing; of course, it's a handful and
you're might light on ballast (how big a boy are ya?). Drop the foremain,
sail under main and "auto" jib. Then, reef the main, then, drop the jib,
etc. Our staysail is nylon, so you could pop that up anytime when you run
downwind. During all this, the balance certainly moves around, but you've
got a powerful rudder and daggerboard.
I suppose you could also provide a small yawl mizzen provided you could
work out the tiller and set the foremain. But, why not think of it like a
canard airplane, big main and small club-footed jib up front. There it is,
and it keeps it in schooner character.
Think about ballast, though, that's the problem. How about some big PVC
cylinders and pump, maybe a 2x8 on a slide, a long tiller extension and
trapeze...
By the way, the thing scoots along at a great clip on 2 Hp, too.
It's a great boat, have fun with it. And, you know, it's just a daysailor...
Gregg Carlson
At 09:38 AM 12/21/99 EST, you wrote:
>I sent the following e-mail to Greg off his website then thought it might be
>of interest to all:
>
>Dear Greg,
>
>I have visited your schooner site many times. It is simply the best site on
>the web for information and example of how to build a Bolger boat. Thanks.
>
>I notice you use an air stapler for fastening. I'd like to get an electric
>stapler - will that work? Do you leave the staples in?
>
>The flagpole idea is great. Who was your supplier?
>
>With the additional flotation have you been able to test your boat for
>capsize recovery? Does your pump work?
>
>I know this may be sacrilegious, but how might one modify the rig on the
>light schooner for single handing? Do you think it could be set up in yawl
>fashion like a Micro?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Mike Masten
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
>I know this may be sacrilegious, but how might one modify the rig on theThat wouldn't be much of a schooner anymore. it would look like a ...
>light schooner for single handing? Do you think it could be set up in yawl
>fashion like a Micro?
well ... a yawl!
There must be some reason you don't see yawls in pirate movies.
David Ryan
Minister of Information and Culture
Crumbling Empire Productions
(212) 247-0296
I sent the following e-mail to Greg off his website then thought it might be
of interest to all:
Dear Greg,
I have visited your schooner site many times. It is simply the best site on
the web for information and example of how to build a Bolger boat. Thanks.
I notice you use an air stapler for fastening. I'd like to get an electric
stapler - will that work? Do you leave the staples in?
The flagpole idea is great. Who was your supplier?
With the additional flotation have you been able to test your boat for
capsize recovery? Does your pump work?
I know this may be sacrilegious, but how might one modify the rig on the
light schooner for single handing? Do you think it could be set up in yawl
fashion like a Micro?
Thanks.
Mike Masten
of interest to all:
Dear Greg,
I have visited your schooner site many times. It is simply the best site on
the web for information and example of how to build a Bolger boat. Thanks.
I notice you use an air stapler for fastening. I'd like to get an electric
stapler - will that work? Do you leave the staples in?
The flagpole idea is great. Who was your supplier?
With the additional flotation have you been able to test your boat for
capsize recovery? Does your pump work?
I know this may be sacrilegious, but how might one modify the rig on the
light schooner for single handing? Do you think it could be set up in yawl
fashion like a Micro?
Thanks.
Mike Masten