Re: Tack and tape: cleats
Wire, any cheap kind. "epoxy tab" between, wait overnight, and pull
the wires.
the wires.
--- In bolger@y..., pvanderw@o... wrote:
> > Lose the tack and tape. Screw the panels losesly to the bulkheads
> > and frames. Stitch them together, check fairness, and "epoxy tab"
> the hull.
>
> Would you stitch with wire, or with plastic wire ties?
Smaller boats say up to 1/4 or even 3/8 in most non-stressed places can use
the plastic ties with great success. When I put my Frolic together, the
plastic ties had to be doubled and tripled in the bow area just to hold
tight but for 90% of the stitching the plastic ties worked very well.
They are quick and easy to use and are generally cheaper than copper wire
and they don't pull through the ply as easy since they are wider than wire.
Jeff
the plastic ties with great success. When I put my Frolic together, the
plastic ties had to be doubled and tripled in the bow area just to hold
tight but for 90% of the stitching the plastic ties worked very well.
They are quick and easy to use and are generally cheaper than copper wire
and they don't pull through the ply as easy since they are wider than wire.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: <pvanderw@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 9:58 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Tack and tape: cleats
> > Lose the tack and tape. Screw the panels losesly to the bulkheads
> > and frames. Stitch them together, check fairness, and "epoxy tab"
> the hull.
>
> Would you stitch with wire, or with plastic wire ties?
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
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>
>
In my experience you need the cleats, 1X2's or 2X2's when the
bulkheads are 3/8" or narrower. It's pretty difficult to hold the
skin and nail or screw into a 1/4" frame like on a Nymph. Then I tape
with good quality masking tape, 3M or similar. Goop in the gaps with
thicken epoxy (I thicken with sawdust), but stay away from the
temporary cleats. The next day you can remove the cleats and finish
filling. Take the tape off as soon as you can, and don't put it in
the sun with the tape on. I have bits of masking tape sealed into my
Diablo's seams because after it was in the sun for a few days I just
couldn't get it all out. Doesn't seem to hurt any thing though.
On thicker bulkheads, like my Micro, no temporay cleats were needed.
bulkheads are 3/8" or narrower. It's pretty difficult to hold the
skin and nail or screw into a 1/4" frame like on a Nymph. Then I tape
with good quality masking tape, 3M or similar. Goop in the gaps with
thicken epoxy (I thicken with sawdust), but stay away from the
temporary cleats. The next day you can remove the cleats and finish
filling. Take the tape off as soon as you can, and don't put it in
the sun with the tape on. I have bits of masking tape sealed into my
Diablo's seams because after it was in the sun for a few days I just
couldn't get it all out. Doesn't seem to hurt any thing though.
On thicker bulkheads, like my Micro, no temporay cleats were needed.
> Lose the tack and tape. Screw the panels losesly to the bulkheadsthe hull.
> and frames. Stitch them together, check fairness, and "epoxy tab"
Would you stitch with wire, or with plastic wire ties?
Loose the tack and tape. Screw the panels losesly to the bulkheads
and frames. Stitch them together, check fairness, and "epoxy tab" the
hull.
--- In bolger@y..., "Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco" <giuseppe.bianco@a...>
wrote:
and frames. Stitch them together, check fairness, and "epoxy tab" the
hull.
--- In bolger@y..., "Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco" <giuseppe.bianco@a...>
wrote:
> Reading Dynamite's books, I understand that he came up with thetack
> and tape (as opposed to stitch and glue) method because he hatesorder
> working with metal stitches. I'm not sure however that I understand
> how the whole process work. My interpretation is that one has to
> temporarily attach cleats along the bulkheads/frames sides, in
> to provide a place for screwing or nailing the hull plates from thecleats?
> outside. However, when is the builder supposed to remove the
> I think that this should be done before completing the exterior ofthe
> the hull, but then how should the hull plates be attached to the
> frames? Filleting and taping one side only, wait for cure, remove
> cleat, fillet and tape the other side? This would mean, for anupside
> down boat, working inside (underneath) the hull...removal.
> OTOH, stiches would allow epoxy tabbing on both sides before
> What's your experience? Best, Pippo
Pippo:
To me, it is not a matter of dogma. I use ties when they seem appropriate,
and cleats at other times. Installing cleats on the inside of the hull may
mean crawling under the boat, but that may be true of ties too. I use duct
or masking tape on the inside between the cleats and ties, then I putty the
panels together everywhere except where the connectors are. If I
accidentally get some epoxy on the cleats, it is not a problem as they are
then removed with a hammer, and any excess wood on the hull is power sanded
off. Now I remove all the ties and cleats, putty the gaps, and later sand
the joints and tape. After the boat is turned over, I fillet and tape the
inside of the seams.
Chuck
To me, it is not a matter of dogma. I use ties when they seem appropriate,
and cleats at other times. Installing cleats on the inside of the hull may
mean crawling under the boat, but that may be true of ties too. I use duct
or masking tape on the inside between the cleats and ties, then I putty the
panels together everywhere except where the connectors are. If I
accidentally get some epoxy on the cleats, it is not a problem as they are
then removed with a hammer, and any excess wood on the hull is power sanded
off. Now I remove all the ties and cleats, putty the gaps, and later sand
the joints and tape. After the boat is turned over, I fillet and tape the
inside of the seams.
Chuck
> What's your experience? Best, Pippo
>
>
Reading Dynamite's books, I understand that he came up with the tack
and tape (as opposed to stitch and glue) method because he hates
working with metal stitches. I'm not sure however that I understand
how the whole process work. My interpretation is that one has to
temporarily attach cleats along the bulkheads/frames sides, in order
to provide a place for screwing or nailing the hull plates from the
outside. However, when is the builder supposed to remove the cleats?
I think that this should be done before completing the exterior of
the hull, but then how should the hull plates be attached to the
frames? Filleting and taping one side only, wait for cure, remove the
cleat, fillet and tape the other side? This would mean, for an upside
down boat, working inside (underneath) the hull...
OTOH, stiches would allow epoxy tabbing on both sides before removal.
What's your experience? Best, Pippo
and tape (as opposed to stitch and glue) method because he hates
working with metal stitches. I'm not sure however that I understand
how the whole process work. My interpretation is that one has to
temporarily attach cleats along the bulkheads/frames sides, in order
to provide a place for screwing or nailing the hull plates from the
outside. However, when is the builder supposed to remove the cleats?
I think that this should be done before completing the exterior of
the hull, but then how should the hull plates be attached to the
frames? Filleting and taping one side only, wait for cure, remove the
cleat, fillet and tape the other side? This would mean, for an upside
down boat, working inside (underneath) the hull...
OTOH, stiches would allow epoxy tabbing on both sides before removal.
What's your experience? Best, Pippo