RE: [bolger] Re: Latex Paint, way to go!
Derek:
If I understand correctly, the paint parted from the primer, leaving the
latter firmly adhered to the epoxy. That pretty much eliminates blush as
the cause of the problem, and unless you greased the primer before
administering the topcoat, the outer latex paint stands indicted. Thanks
for the heads-up.
Chuck
If I understand correctly, the paint parted from the primer, leaving the
latter firmly adhered to the epoxy. That pretty much eliminates blush as
the cause of the problem, and unless you greased the primer before
administering the topcoat, the outer latex paint stands indicted. Thanks
for the heads-up.
Chuck
> Chuck, although I haven't the tin in front of me, I'm pretty sure the
> 'semi-gloss' paint that peeled was described as acrylic latex
> enamel, pretty
> much the same description as the stuff that stayed on the first boat...
>
> Don, your point about blush cleanup is well taken, but the primer is
> _extremely_ well bonded to the epoxy - unfortunately the top coat is
> demonstrably water soluble. Prior to, and post immersion the top
> coat gave a
> reasonable impression of solidity - the usual bumps and scrapes
> were handed
> out to the hull (being dragged in and out of the shop etc) without any
> distressing paint exfoliation.
>
> I'm still blaming the topcoat :)
>
> Incidentally, I've been using System 3 epoxy, and I've been
> delighted by its
> 'blush-free' behaviour.
>
>
> Derek
>
>
Fair enough Derek. The manufacturer should be hung drawn and
quartered!
Acrylic Latex Enamel...sounds like a contradiction. Maybe it's
similar to Enamacryl, which is available here in NZ, which is
described as a "water based enamel", but really is a latex with some
enamel characteristics. Hope it's not the same as yours, because I
today painted on the first finishing coat! The manufacturer
recommended it ahead of their normal house latex.
DonB
quartered!
Acrylic Latex Enamel...sounds like a contradiction. Maybe it's
similar to Enamacryl, which is available here in NZ, which is
described as a "water based enamel", but really is a latex with some
enamel characteristics. Hope it's not the same as yours, because I
today painted on the first finishing coat! The manufacturer
recommended it ahead of their normal house latex.
DonB
> Don, your point about blush cleanup is well taken, but the primer iscoat gave a
> _extremely_ well bonded to the epoxy - unfortunately the top coat is
> demonstrably water soluble. Prior to, and post immersion the top
> reasonable impression of solidity - the usual bumps and scrapeswere handed
> out to the hull (being dragged in and out of the shop etc) withoutany
> distressing paint exfoliation.delighted by its
>
> I'm still blaming the topcoat :)
>
> Incidentally, I've been using System 3 epoxy, and I've been
> 'blush-free' behaviour.
>
>
> Derek
Chuck, although I haven't the tin in front of me, I'm pretty sure the
'semi-gloss' paint that peeled was described as acrylic latex enamel, pretty
much the same description as the stuff that stayed on the first boat...
Don, your point about blush cleanup is well taken, but the primer is
_extremely_ well bonded to the epoxy - unfortunately the top coat is
demonstrably water soluble. Prior to, and post immersion the top coat gave a
reasonable impression of solidity - the usual bumps and scrapes were handed
out to the hull (being dragged in and out of the shop etc) without any
distressing paint exfoliation.
I'm still blaming the topcoat :)
Incidentally, I've been using System 3 epoxy, and I've been delighted by its
'blush-free' behaviour.
Derek
'semi-gloss' paint that peeled was described as acrylic latex enamel, pretty
much the same description as the stuff that stayed on the first boat...
Don, your point about blush cleanup is well taken, but the primer is
_extremely_ well bonded to the epoxy - unfortunately the top coat is
demonstrably water soluble. Prior to, and post immersion the top coat gave a
reasonable impression of solidity - the usual bumps and scrapes were handed
out to the hull (being dragged in and out of the shop etc) without any
distressing paint exfoliation.
I'm still blaming the topcoat :)
Incidentally, I've been using System 3 epoxy, and I've been delighted by its
'blush-free' behaviour.
Derek
Derek, are you SURE you washed and srubbed your epoxy thoroughly
enough? I had your experience years ago with my Elegant Punt, except
that the paint that came off in strips was premium yacht enamel. I
feel it is all in the thorough cleaning off of the epoxy, without
which there is little adhesion. I suspect that if you had dug your
fingernail into the paint, even before putting the boat into the
water, you would have scraped paint off.
DonB
enough? I had your experience years ago with my Elegant Punt, except
that the paint that came off in strips was premium yacht enamel. I
feel it is all in the thorough cleaning off of the epoxy, without
which there is little adhesion. I suspect that if you had dug your
fingernail into the paint, even before putting the boat into the
water, you would have scraped paint off.
DonB
>Bullseye 123
> A caveat:
>
> Latex worked really well on our Nymph (Glidden exterior over
> primer over epoxied glass) - I'd use that combination again.Junebug - a
>
> On the weekend we launched a second wee boat (a sort of short
> Mayfly?)(made in
>
> This time we used an exterior latex from Canadian Premier Paint
> USA - go figure :). Same base, same primer, all coats given a weekor so to
> harden up.washing off in
>
> After a couple of hours immersion, the topcoat was literally
> rubbery strands - we'll have to completely strip & repaint. Doh!boat.
>
> From now on, I'll be doing immersion tests before painting a whole
> Very differing results from nominally similar, equivalently pricedproducts.
>our Micro
> On an unrelated note, a local (Vancouver BC) lead recycler poured
> keel last week, charging about 50c(US) per pound. Friendly andhelpful.
>
> cheers
> Derek
Derek:
I have had both of these experiences. My take is that "house" paint comes
off, but anything that is glossy, or semi-gloss AND has the word "enamel"
in it seems to work. Was the paint that came off for you either enamel or
glossy?
Chuck
I have had both of these experiences. My take is that "house" paint comes
off, but anything that is glossy, or semi-gloss AND has the word "enamel"
in it seems to work. Was the paint that came off for you either enamel or
glossy?
Chuck
> Hi Group
>
> A caveat:
>
> Latex worked really well on our Nymph (Glidden exterior over Bullseye 123
> primer over epoxied glass) - I'd use that combination again.
>
> On the weekend we launched a second wee boat (a sort of short Junebug - a
> Mayfly?)
>
> This time we used an exterior latex from Canadian Premier Paint (made in
> USA - go figure :). Same base, same primer, all coats given a
> week or so to
> harden up.
>
> After a couple of hours immersion, the topcoat was literally
> washing off in
> rubbery strands - we'll have to completely strip & repaint. Doh!
>
> >From now on, I'll be doing immersion tests before painting a whole boat.
> Very differing results from nominally similar, equivalently
> priced products.
>
> On an unrelated note, a local (Vancouver BC) lead recycler poured
> our Micro
> keel last week, charging about 50c(US) per pound. Friendly and helpful.
>
> cheers
> Derek
>
>
>
Hi Group
A caveat:
Latex worked really well on our Nymph (Glidden exterior over Bullseye 123
primer over epoxied glass) - I'd use that combination again.
On the weekend we launched a second wee boat (a sort of short Junebug - a
Mayfly?)
This time we used an exterior latex from Canadian Premier Paint (made in
USA - go figure :). Same base, same primer, all coats given a week or so to
harden up.
After a couple of hours immersion, the topcoat was literally washing off in
rubbery strands - we'll have to completely strip & repaint. Doh!
From now on, I'll be doing immersion tests before painting a whole boat.
Very differing results from nominally similar, equivalently priced products.
On an unrelated note, a local (Vancouver BC) lead recycler poured our Micro
keel last week, charging about 50c(US) per pound. Friendly and helpful.
cheers
Derek
A caveat:
Latex worked really well on our Nymph (Glidden exterior over Bullseye 123
primer over epoxied glass) - I'd use that combination again.
On the weekend we launched a second wee boat (a sort of short Junebug - a
Mayfly?)
This time we used an exterior latex from Canadian Premier Paint (made in
USA - go figure :). Same base, same primer, all coats given a week or so to
harden up.
After a couple of hours immersion, the topcoat was literally washing off in
rubbery strands - we'll have to completely strip & repaint. Doh!
From now on, I'll be doing immersion tests before painting a whole boat.
Very differing results from nominally similar, equivalently priced products.
On an unrelated note, a local (Vancouver BC) lead recycler poured our Micro
keel last week, charging about 50c(US) per pound. Friendly and helpful.
cheers
Derek
After reading Dave Carnell etc, I decided to repaint Micro Oink in
water-based paint. After sanding back, I applied latex primer,
carefully hiding the can with my body, but I was caught! "What the
hell is that!"
To my amazement, the worms came out of the woodwork from all
directions....boats on both sides which are kept on moorings had also
been painted with house latex paint for 2 years and more! And they
looked fine. A damn sight better than Oink with her cracking marine
enamel. One fellow said he read an article in Wooden Boat, where an
american paint executive said that high priced boat paints were
produced because people wanted them, not because they were better,
and he would use latex. I have not seen this myself.
I was painting over new epoxy which did not appear to have any
residue from the curing process. However, having once had a coat of
paint peel off, I scrubbed down with clean fresh water using a
Scotchbrite pad (hard textured plastic type, not metal), and even
then a whiteish thin slurry came off. And the latex primer has stuck
really well, and hardened over-night, and light-sanded nicely.
DonB
water-based paint. After sanding back, I applied latex primer,
carefully hiding the can with my body, but I was caught! "What the
hell is that!"
To my amazement, the worms came out of the woodwork from all
directions....boats on both sides which are kept on moorings had also
been painted with house latex paint for 2 years and more! And they
looked fine. A damn sight better than Oink with her cracking marine
enamel. One fellow said he read an article in Wooden Boat, where an
american paint executive said that high priced boat paints were
produced because people wanted them, not because they were better,
and he would use latex. I have not seen this myself.
I was painting over new epoxy which did not appear to have any
residue from the curing process. However, having once had a coat of
paint peel off, I scrubbed down with clean fresh water using a
Scotchbrite pad (hard textured plastic type, not metal), and even
then a whiteish thin slurry came off. And the latex primer has stuck
really well, and hardened over-night, and light-sanded nicely.
DonB