Re: [bolger] Re: Outboard rant
That is the same conclusions I have on my Tonaka. Keep it a 1/2 throttle or
better in high following waves. It can stutter when splashed and die if at
slow RPMs. Not a real problem if you are aware of it.
Jeff
better in high following waves. It can stutter when splashed and die if at
slow RPMs. Not a real problem if you are aware of it.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul van der Merwe" <paul.vandermerwe@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 7:15 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Outboard rant
> >> lessens the problem some. Planing powerboats don't seem to suffer
>
> >Seems this would be a good argument for an air coole engine...
>
> Just make sure your air-cooled motor is a longleg one to keep dunking to a
> minimum. An air-cooled motor does not like to be dunked, cools off real
fast
> and runs like a cold motor for a while. No big problem, just something to
be
> aware of. If it is rough it is better to have the motor on a quarter or
half
> throttle than on a slow idle. If it idles and gets dunked it dies. On
> quarter or greater throttle if it gets dunked, it runs rough for a second
or
> two while it warms up again. The fast cooling wind from the flywheel/fan
> keeps the water away from the cylinder too. At full throttle seems to
handle
> it fine, just a cloud of steam!!
> Just my 2c..
> Paul
>
> Bolger rules!!!
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>
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>
>
>> lessens the problem some. Planing powerboats don't seem to sufferJust make sure your air-cooled motor is a longleg one to keep dunking to a
>Seems this would be a good argument for an air coole engine...
minimum. An air-cooled motor does not like to be dunked, cools off real fast
and runs like a cold motor for a while. No big problem, just something to be
aware of. If it is rough it is better to have the motor on a quarter or half
throttle than on a slow idle. If it idles and gets dunked it dies. On
quarter or greater throttle if it gets dunked, it runs rough for a second or
two while it warms up again. The fast cooling wind from the flywheel/fan
keeps the water away from the cylinder too. At full throttle seems to handle
it fine, just a cloud of steam!!
Just my 2c..
Paul
--- In bolger@y..., cliff25@w... wrote:
I agree that mechanical ability CAN be acquired, but in varying
degrees by different individuals. Some people find it easy and some
can't "get it" no matter how hard they try. People's abilities in
this regard vary greatly.
I know of a fellow who has always tried to fix things on his own and
screws them up every time. He was exposed to mechanical stuff
growing up and his brothers are all very mechanically inclined. In
spite of the fact that the brothers all came from the same
background, and the fact that he has the desire to learn (and is
exceptionally intellegent in most ways), he is a complete mechanical
klutz.
I used to be an electrician in a previous life. There was a young
apprentice where I worked that was smart, wanted badly to be an
electrician, and had good patient teachers. In the 5-6 years I knew
him he ruined thousands of feet of conduit and never gained even a
marginally acceptable level of ability to do anything mechanical
(especially pipe bending for some reason). Other guys in the same
shop picked it up quickly (even some who were as dumb as a bag of
rocks and completely unmotivated).
Another issue is that ability to learn and desire to learn are two
different things, so if someone has the ability they might not have
the desire.
All that said, I would bet that "most" folks that could build a boat
can also learn to repair an outboard motor. So I wouldn't expect to
find someone on this board who couldn't, but it isn't beyond the
realm of possibility.
Pete Staehling
> As a followup to my last post, I agree that mechanical aptitudeFirst, let me apologise for getting so off topic.
> can be aquired, to a degree. I'd rather be one to whom it comes
> naturally, but...
I agree that mechanical ability CAN be acquired, but in varying
degrees by different individuals. Some people find it easy and some
can't "get it" no matter how hard they try. People's abilities in
this regard vary greatly.
I know of a fellow who has always tried to fix things on his own and
screws them up every time. He was exposed to mechanical stuff
growing up and his brothers are all very mechanically inclined. In
spite of the fact that the brothers all came from the same
background, and the fact that he has the desire to learn (and is
exceptionally intellegent in most ways), he is a complete mechanical
klutz.
I used to be an electrician in a previous life. There was a young
apprentice where I worked that was smart, wanted badly to be an
electrician, and had good patient teachers. In the 5-6 years I knew
him he ruined thousands of feet of conduit and never gained even a
marginally acceptable level of ability to do anything mechanical
(especially pipe bending for some reason). Other guys in the same
shop picked it up quickly (even some who were as dumb as a bag of
rocks and completely unmotivated).
Another issue is that ability to learn and desire to learn are two
different things, so if someone has the ability they might not have
the desire.
All that said, I would bet that "most" folks that could build a boat
can also learn to repair an outboard motor. So I wouldn't expect to
find someone on this board who couldn't, but it isn't beyond the
realm of possibility.
Pete Staehling
--- In bolger@y..., cliff25@w... wrote:
I did not work on cars as a kid, nor outboard motors. When I was
15, I bought an old outboard that would not run correctly; I
dissasembled and repaired it, and then it would not run at all.
It never ran gain.
I decided, while taking a 20 mile ride on the end of a towrope
along with an outboard with a failed electronic ignition system,
that I would learn what was necessary in order to
be more self-reliant out on the water. I decided, after spending
large sums of cash at boat dealerships, that I would learn
what was necessary in order to rely less on them.
Not everyone has the potential to build wineglass-section
lapstrake skiffs, but most everyone can build an "instant"
boat if one approaches the task with the attitude that he
can do it. You acquire a basic knowledge of boat building
by researching published material and by talking with those
who have done it. Working on old outboards is no different.
If you assume you "can't", then you wont.
Max
As a followup to my last post, I agree that mechanical aptitude can be
aquired, to a degree. I'd rather be one to whom it comes naturally, but
I've been happy to learn through life that tricky stuff I used to think
beyond my understanding comes more easily now. I think the big kick
came when I tuned my own car for the first time--including valve
adjustment--and realized that I'd been throwing my money away at the
garage. The performance was excellent! Obviously, all they'd ever done
was change the plugs and call it a tuneup. High paid plumbers are quite
an incentive too!
In fact, because I've learned to do some "stuff," I know I'll be able to
build a boat someday. Believe me, twenty years ago I built a doghouse.
You wouldn't wish that house on a dog....
Cliff
http://www.angelfire.com/mi/mmmkkk/
(Last of the Red Hot DJs)
aquired, to a degree. I'd rather be one to whom it comes naturally, but
I've been happy to learn through life that tricky stuff I used to think
beyond my understanding comes more easily now. I think the big kick
came when I tuned my own car for the first time--including valve
adjustment--and realized that I'd been throwing my money away at the
garage. The performance was excellent! Obviously, all they'd ever done
was change the plugs and call it a tuneup. High paid plumbers are quite
an incentive too!
In fact, because I've learned to do some "stuff," I know I'll be able to
build a boat someday. Believe me, twenty years ago I built a doghouse.
You wouldn't wish that house on a dog....
Cliff
http://www.angelfire.com/mi/mmmkkk/
(Last of the Red Hot DJs)
<<Mechanical aptitude is an aquired trait, not an inherited one.>>
I disagree. Many people are born mechanics; they feel at home with
their hands and can quickly understand mechanical puzzles. The Inuit
(Eskimos) are good examples of this talent. They have been known since
early discovery to have an inate ability to understand mechanical
apparatus. Some early explorer once said he saw one tear down an
outboard motor (he'd never seen one before) and put it back together
again to run flawlessly.
Lots of young backyard mechanics who can't understand half the
schoolwork he's given can still tear into an old car and make it like
new again. Not me! I have to work hard for mechanical gains.
Cliff
http://www.angelfire.com/mi/mmmkkk/
(Last of the Red Hot DJs)
I disagree. Many people are born mechanics; they feel at home with
their hands and can quickly understand mechanical puzzles. The Inuit
(Eskimos) are good examples of this talent. They have been known since
early discovery to have an inate ability to understand mechanical
apparatus. Some early explorer once said he saw one tear down an
outboard motor (he'd never seen one before) and put it back together
again to run flawlessly.
Lots of young backyard mechanics who can't understand half the
schoolwork he's given can still tear into an old car and make it like
new again. Not me! I have to work hard for mechanical gains.
Cliff
http://www.angelfire.com/mi/mmmkkk/
(Last of the Red Hot DJs)
> Yep, if it works well for you, that is all that matters. If youlike
> old outboards, have some mechanical aptitude, and don't mind someMechanical apptitude is an acquired trait, not an inherited one.
> tinkering, then they may be a great way to go. If you fit that
> profile, you will save money and have fun.
Anyone with the ability to build his own boat has the potential
to learn to deal with simple, basic outboard motors. He will never
have the special tools and testing equipment to troubleshoot and
repair modern "advanced" engines, and will always be at the mercy
of other boaters while on the water, and at the mercy of dealers
with $70.00 per hour shop rates while on land.
Max
>
>
--- In bolger@y..., cadbury@s... wrote:
old outboards, have some mechanical aptitude, and don't mind some
tinkering, then they may be a great way to go. If you fit that
profile, you will save money and have fun.
For the mechanically inclined with an older outboard, you have the
confidence that you can fix just about anything that might go wrong.
Also, older outboards do have a certain "utilitarian charm" that
appeals to some (myself included to some extent).
That said, I still say that CDI ignition has many advantages and is a
big improvement, especially for the guy who just wants to use his
motor and doesn't want to work on it. It is probably also cheaper
for the guy who has to run to the dealer every time he fouls a plug.
Pete Staehling
> Just returned from a weekend out on the lake. My 1957 outboard withwho
> points and condensers ran flawlessly for two days. Jim Michalak,
> went with me, had his 1956 outboard with points and condensersperform
> flawlessly. Both engines start on first or second pull.also
>
> A different engine, a 1956, that I took to the Midwest Messaabout
> ran flawlessly for the event, and is also a "one or two pull start"Yep, if it works well for you, that is all that matters. If you like
> engine.
old outboards, have some mechanical aptitude, and don't mind some
tinkering, then they may be a great way to go. If you fit that
profile, you will save money and have fun.
For the mechanically inclined with an older outboard, you have the
confidence that you can fix just about anything that might go wrong.
Also, older outboards do have a certain "utilitarian charm" that
appeals to some (myself included to some extent).
That said, I still say that CDI ignition has many advantages and is a
big improvement, especially for the guy who just wants to use his
motor and doesn't want to work on it. It is probably also cheaper
for the guy who has to run to the dealer every time he fouls a plug.
Pete Staehling
--- In bolger@y..., staehpj1@h... wrote:
points and condensers ran flawlessly for two days. Jim Michalak, who
went with me, had his 1956 outboard with points and condensers perform
flawlessly. Both engines start on first or second pull.
A different engine, a 1956, that I took to the Midwest Messaabout also
ran flawlessly for the event, and is also a "one or two pull start"
engine.
Electronic ignition will give you a "hotter" spark, which may be
important if you want to race around in circles, be it in a boat or on
a motorcyle. For reliable and cheap power in other than a competitive
setting, points and condensers are hard to beat.
A pair of points and a pair of condensers for any of the above-
mentioned engines costs me about 8 or 9 bucks and about an hour
to install. Any old engine I intend to run I replace this items
on. Often, the factory originals are still in these 40 to 50 year
old engines, and I have never had to install a second set in any
engine I have run. I have outboards from the 20's and 30's that are
still runnning on the original, factory-installed, points and
condensers.
As to having to adjust the points, on a 50-year-old OMC it takes
about 10 or 15 minutes, a decent feeler gauge, and a regular-head
screwdriver. As to how often it must be done, I really don't know
because once I install and adjust a new set of points, I have rarely
had to go back and reset them. But then I am not looking to get
every last fraction of a mile-per-hour- out of these engines.
I know of a 1990 or so 40 hp mercury that when into a Mercury factory
authorized dealership with a complaint of "no spark." It came
back with spark and a $649.00 repair invoice, and two new black
boxes (evidently the shop replaced the wrong one first.)
I can install a completely new ignition system in a 1962 40 hp
OMC (new points, condensers, plug wires, plugs, and even magneto
coils) for under 50 bucks in parts and about 2 hours labor at the
most. The only ignition parts not replaced are the flywheel
magnets and the points cam.
Max
> I feel I have to point out the other side of this.general
> --- In bolger@y..., cadbury@s... wrote:
> > --- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
> > I prefer to have as little money as possible invested in my
> > marine equipment. I paid about 75 bucks each for the 10 hp and
> > the 3 hp engines that were mounted on the AF4 for the midwest
> Snip 8<
> > College graduates with marketing degrees have convinced the
> > public that electronic ignition is better that "old fashioned"This
> > points and condensers, but I replaced the points and condensers
> > (and plug wires and sparkplugs) on each of the above-mentioned
> > engines for less than 20 bucks apiece plus a couple hours of
> > work. You can't buy a "black box" for electronic ignition for
> > anywhere near that kind of money.
> snip 8<
> Yes but electronic ignition IS better. It is way more reliable; it
> almost never needs to have any parts replaced. It runs cleaner, so
> it is better for the environment. It starts easier. It fouls plugs
> way less often or more likely not at all.
>
> "Old fashioned" points and condenser engines require tune-ups.
> means that points and plugs need to be replaced regularly, unlikethe
> electronic ignition which needs nothing done to it at all. Not toit
> mention ignition timing. On electronic ignition, set it once and
> is good for the life of the engine. With points it changes as theand
> points wear (had to set it every race).
>
> As far as the notion that a black box failure will leave you high
> dry; it is true, but the black box in most engines will still beof
> going strong when the engine is worn out. In thousands of hours of
> extreme use I have never had a black box die. I don't recall any
> my friends having one die either, except one box on a friends bikeJust returned from a weekend out on the lake. My 1957 outboard with
> that was physically damaged in a crash.
>
> I raced motorcycles for a number of years. About half of the time
> was before electronic ignition and half was after. The difference
> was dramatic. I had to constantly be maintaining the ignition with
> points and condensor, replacing parts each race. With electronic
> ignition I didn't have to touch the ignition system for the life of
> the engine. Even spark plugs lasted forever, although I replaced
> them once in a while "just because".
>
> So if you like to tinker with your engine, points and condensor are
> fine, but if you want to be able to use and ignore it, electronic
> ignition wins hands down.
>
> Pete Staehling
points and condensers ran flawlessly for two days. Jim Michalak, who
went with me, had his 1956 outboard with points and condensers perform
flawlessly. Both engines start on first or second pull.
A different engine, a 1956, that I took to the Midwest Messaabout also
ran flawlessly for the event, and is also a "one or two pull start"
engine.
Electronic ignition will give you a "hotter" spark, which may be
important if you want to race around in circles, be it in a boat or on
a motorcyle. For reliable and cheap power in other than a competitive
setting, points and condensers are hard to beat.
A pair of points and a pair of condensers for any of the above-
mentioned engines costs me about 8 or 9 bucks and about an hour
to install. Any old engine I intend to run I replace this items
on. Often, the factory originals are still in these 40 to 50 year
old engines, and I have never had to install a second set in any
engine I have run. I have outboards from the 20's and 30's that are
still runnning on the original, factory-installed, points and
condensers.
As to having to adjust the points, on a 50-year-old OMC it takes
about 10 or 15 minutes, a decent feeler gauge, and a regular-head
screwdriver. As to how often it must be done, I really don't know
because once I install and adjust a new set of points, I have rarely
had to go back and reset them. But then I am not looking to get
every last fraction of a mile-per-hour- out of these engines.
I know of a 1990 or so 40 hp mercury that when into a Mercury factory
authorized dealership with a complaint of "no spark." It came
back with spark and a $649.00 repair invoice, and two new black
boxes (evidently the shop replaced the wrong one first.)
I can install a completely new ignition system in a 1962 40 hp
OMC (new points, condensers, plug wires, plugs, and even magneto
coils) for under 50 bucks in parts and about 2 hours labor at the
most. The only ignition parts not replaced are the flywheel
magnets and the points cam.
Max
I feel I have to point out the other side of this.
--- In bolger@y..., cadbury@s... wrote:
> --- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
> I prefer to have as little money as possible invested in my
> marine equipment. I paid about 75 bucks each for the 10 hp and
> the 3 hp engines that were mounted on the AF4 for the midwest
Snip 8<
> College graduates with marketing degrees have convinced the general
> public that electronic ignition is better that "old fashioned"
> points and condensers, but I replaced the points and condensers
> (and plug wires and sparkplugs) on each of the above-mentioned
> engines for less than 20 bucks apiece plus a couple hours of
> work. You can't buy a "black box" for electronic ignition for
> anywhere near that kind of money.
snip 8<
Yes but electronic ignition IS better. It is way more reliable; it
almost never needs to have any parts replaced. It runs cleaner, so
it is better for the environment. It starts easier. It fouls plugs
way less often or more likely not at all.
"Old fashioned" points and condenser engines require tune-ups. This
means that points and plugs need to be replaced regularly, unlike the
electronic ignition which needs nothing done to it at all. Not to
mention ignition timing. On electronic ignition, set it once and it
is good for the life of the engine. With points it changes as the
points wear (had to set it every race).
As far as the notion that a black box failure will leave you high and
dry; it is true, but the black box in most engines will still be
going strong when the engine is worn out. In thousands of hours of
extreme use I have never had a black box die. I don't recall any of
my friends having one die either, except one box on a friends bike
that was physically damaged in a crash.
I raced motorcycles for a number of years. About half of the time
was before electronic ignition and half was after. The difference
was dramatic. I had to constantly be maintaining the ignition with
points and condensor, replacing parts each race. With electronic
ignition I didn't have to touch the ignition system for the life of
the engine. Even spark plugs lasted forever, although I replaced
them once in a while "just because".
So if you like to tinker with your engine, points and condensor are
fine, but if you want to be able to use and ignore it, electronic
ignition wins hands down.
Pete Staehling
>Nothing wrong with air-cooled outboards, but many of them are not
> Seems this would be a good argument for an air coole engine...
completely air-cooled. Many Eskas and Clintons have either a
pump in the lower unit, or a scoop behind the propeller, to supply
water to cool the exhaust housing and the bottom surface of
the cylinder block.
Max
Richard:
My understanding is that the reason for long shaft motors is to keep the OB
from getting pooped in big swells. I got a long shafter for my Caprice
because I might want to take her offshore sometime. Not too far, though. If
you were always going to sail in sheltered water, the short version would
help keep the CG lower. At first blush, it would seem that a long shaft
motor would have more resale potential, as a an auxiliary for a sailing
yacht, or as a trolling motor for an offshore fishing boat.
Chuck
My understanding is that the reason for long shaft motors is to keep the OB
from getting pooped in big swells. I got a long shafter for my Caprice
because I might want to take her offshore sometime. Not too far, though. If
you were always going to sail in sheltered water, the short version would
help keep the CG lower. At first blush, it would seem that a long shaft
motor would have more resale potential, as a an auxiliary for a sailing
yacht, or as a trolling motor for an offshore fishing boat.
Chuck
>
> I like the idea of the prop being protected by the keel, it's my
> understanding the long shaft would stick out below the keel. From
> reading old messages. J. Orr and B. Samson differ on this. Anybody
> want to rant on long vs. short?
>
>
--- In bolger@y..., cadbury@s... wrote:
> off having as much distance between the lower unit and powerhead asbeen
> possible to eliminate that problem. If this particular boat had
> fitted with a short-shaft engine, we would have either fried theSeems this would be a good argument for an air coole engine...
> engine due to the water intake coming out of the water, or drowned
> the powerhead in a wave. Even with a long-shaft, it was marginal.
> Mounting the engine directly on the transom instead of a bracket
> lessens the problem some. Planing powerboats don't seem to suffer
--- In bolger@y..., richard@s... wrote:
a 25 foot sailboat with a long-shaft outboard on a bracket. The boat
handled the waves fine, but the outboard would alternate between the
propeller breaking the surface, and being buried in water up to the
cowling, as the waves passed beneath the boat. I feel you are better
off having as much distance between the lower unit and powerhead as
possible to eliminate that problem. If this particular boat had been
fitted with a short-shaft engine, we would have either fried the
engine due to the water intake coming out of the water, or drowned
the powerhead in a wave. Even with a long-shaft, it was marginal.
Mounting the engine directly on the transom instead of a bracket
lessens the problem some. Planing powerboats don't seem to suffer as
much from this effect, probably because their sterns don't want to
rise to the waves as much, which presents its own set of problems.
For a new engine, I would buy the long-shaft. For a used engine, you
may have to settle for short, as most engine under 10 hp sold are
short shaft. You can mount the long shaft engine higher, to keep
the prop. above the keel line, and ensure the powerhead will not
get dunked.
Max
> --- In bolger@y..., cadbury@s... wrote:charging
> > The one thing I would like to have is a charging system; not
> electric
> > start, just a charging system.
> >
> > If I were to buy a new small engine, for say a Chebacco, I would
> > buy a long-shaft, 4-cycle with a charging system.
> >
> > If you are going to look for a used engine, a long-shaft in the
> > under -10-hp-range is going to be very hard to find, and a
> > system virtually impossible.A couple months ago i was out on a local lake in 45 knot winds, in
> >
> > Max
>
> That's what I have in mind. A Tohatsu 5hp with charging system. Was
> looking at the short shaft model. Why would you go with the long
> shaft?
>
a 25 foot sailboat with a long-shaft outboard on a bracket. The boat
handled the waves fine, but the outboard would alternate between the
propeller breaking the surface, and being buried in water up to the
cowling, as the waves passed beneath the boat. I feel you are better
off having as much distance between the lower unit and powerhead as
possible to eliminate that problem. If this particular boat had been
fitted with a short-shaft engine, we would have either fried the
engine due to the water intake coming out of the water, or drowned
the powerhead in a wave. Even with a long-shaft, it was marginal.
Mounting the engine directly on the transom instead of a bracket
lessens the problem some. Planing powerboats don't seem to suffer as
much from this effect, probably because their sterns don't want to
rise to the waves as much, which presents its own set of problems.
For a new engine, I would buy the long-shaft. For a used engine, you
may have to settle for short, as most engine under 10 hp sold are
short shaft. You can mount the long shaft engine higher, to keep
the prop. above the keel line, and ensure the powerhead will not
get dunked.
Max
--- In bolger@y..., cadbury@s... wrote:
looking at the short shaft model. Why would you go with the long
shaft?
I like the idea of the prop being protected by the keel, it's my
understanding the long shaft would stick out below the keel. From
reading old messages. J. Orr and B. Samson differ on this. Anybody
want to rant on long vs. short?
> The one thing I would like to have is a charging system; notelectric
> start, just a charging system.That's what I have in mind. A Tohatsu 5hp with charging system. Was
>
> If I were to buy a new small engine, for say a Chebacco, I would
> buy a long-shaft, 4-cycle with a charging system.
>
> If you are going to look for a used engine, a long-shaft in the
> under -10-hp-range is going to be very hard to find, and a charging
> system virtually impossible.
>
> Max
looking at the short shaft model. Why would you go with the long
shaft?
I like the idea of the prop being protected by the keel, it's my
understanding the long shaft would stick out below the keel. From
reading old messages. J. Orr and B. Samson differ on this. Anybody
want to rant on long vs. short?
--- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
marine equipment. I paid about 75 bucks each for the 10 hp and
the 3 hp engines that were mounted on the AF4 for the midwest
messabout. Each took about 50 bucks worth of parts in order to
put them into running condiion (mostly "tune-up" items.) Both start
easily and both run good. Both suck-up gasoline like they are
bucking for a promotion, and both require 24 to 1 oil mix ratios
(I generally mix slightly richer than factory recommended specs)
but Walmart oil is cheap in the gallon jugs.
College graduates with marketing degrees have convinced the general
public that electronic ignition is better that "old fashioned" points
and condensers, but I replaced the points and condensers (and plug
wires and sparkplugs) on each of the above-mentioned engines for
less than 20 bucks apiece plus a couple hours of work. You can't
buy a "black box" for electronic ignition for anywhere near that
kind of money. Plus, if points and condensers go bad, they USUALLY
go bad slowly, making the engine hard to start or causing other
"runnability" problems. Electronic ignition usually works great
until it fails, then it fails completely. I can remember floating
around Table Rock Lake with an 85 hp engine with a failed "black
box". Got towed back by a guy in a bassboat. Ruined both of our
days.
The one thing I would like to have is a charging system; not electric
start, just a charging system.
If I were to buy a new small engine, for say a Chebacco, I would
buy a long-shaft, 4-cycle with a charging system.
If you are going to look for a used engine, a long-shaft in the
under -10-hp-range is going to be very hard to find, and a charging
system virtually impossible.
I am picking up this afternoon, a late 80's 30 hp Yamaha that I
paid $20.26 for. Not quite the deal it appears to be, but I will
trade it for something good (an outboard at least 40 years old.)
Max
> Richard:will
>
> Let us know how the bidding comes out on your AF2.
>
> I think you know what I will say about outboards - buy new, and you
> have no trouble. The new four strokes, while dear, are greatunits. They
> will: start consistently, run quietly, not need oil mixed with thegas (this
> means that any left over gas can be put in your car's tank), andrequire
> little service.I prefer to have as little money as possible invested in my
>
> Max, you probably have a different opinion.
>
> Chuck
> >
marine equipment. I paid about 75 bucks each for the 10 hp and
the 3 hp engines that were mounted on the AF4 for the midwest
messabout. Each took about 50 bucks worth of parts in order to
put them into running condiion (mostly "tune-up" items.) Both start
easily and both run good. Both suck-up gasoline like they are
bucking for a promotion, and both require 24 to 1 oil mix ratios
(I generally mix slightly richer than factory recommended specs)
but Walmart oil is cheap in the gallon jugs.
College graduates with marketing degrees have convinced the general
public that electronic ignition is better that "old fashioned" points
and condensers, but I replaced the points and condensers (and plug
wires and sparkplugs) on each of the above-mentioned engines for
less than 20 bucks apiece plus a couple hours of work. You can't
buy a "black box" for electronic ignition for anywhere near that
kind of money. Plus, if points and condensers go bad, they USUALLY
go bad slowly, making the engine hard to start or causing other
"runnability" problems. Electronic ignition usually works great
until it fails, then it fails completely. I can remember floating
around Table Rock Lake with an 85 hp engine with a failed "black
box". Got towed back by a guy in a bassboat. Ruined both of our
days.
The one thing I would like to have is a charging system; not electric
start, just a charging system.
If I were to buy a new small engine, for say a Chebacco, I would
buy a long-shaft, 4-cycle with a charging system.
If you are going to look for a used engine, a long-shaft in the
under -10-hp-range is going to be very hard to find, and a charging
system virtually impossible.
I am picking up this afternoon, a late 80's 30 hp Yamaha that I
paid $20.26 for. Not quite the deal it appears to be, but I will
trade it for something good (an outboard at least 40 years old.)
Max
Hi -
P L E A S E do N O T put another 2 stroke engine in the water.
Yes, a 4 stroke costs more $, but a 2 stroke costs more environment.
A short shaft is certainly easier to tote around if you are going to
move it between a few different boats.
The Honda 8 HP is much quieter than the Honda 5 HP in my experience
(both 4 strokes of course). I have a Honda 8HP short shaft that I
used on my AS-19 and Martha Jane. Recently I invested in a new Honda
8HP power thrust model - long shaft - and next week I will start to
raise my transome to accomodate it. The power thrust 8HP has a much
larger alternator, electric start, and more convenient control on the
tiller.
My experience with outboards is that if you take care of them they
will last forever, so divide your cost by 20 years and the price will
not be so hard to swallow.
Personally, I will not use a 2 stroke motor ever again. Blech.
Hey, you asked for a rant....
Mike
P L E A S E do N O T put another 2 stroke engine in the water.
Yes, a 4 stroke costs more $, but a 2 stroke costs more environment.
A short shaft is certainly easier to tote around if you are going to
move it between a few different boats.
The Honda 8 HP is much quieter than the Honda 5 HP in my experience
(both 4 strokes of course). I have a Honda 8HP short shaft that I
used on my AS-19 and Martha Jane. Recently I invested in a new Honda
8HP power thrust model - long shaft - and next week I will start to
raise my transome to accomodate it. The power thrust 8HP has a much
larger alternator, electric start, and more convenient control on the
tiller.
My experience with outboards is that if you take care of them they
will last forever, so divide your cost by 20 years and the price will
not be so hard to swallow.
Personally, I will not use a 2 stroke motor ever again. Blech.
Hey, you asked for a rant....
Mike
--- In bolger@y..., richard@s... wrote:
> Anybody feel like ranting on the subject of small outboards? I'm in
> the market for a small 5ish hp outboard for the new Chebacco. I'll
> buy new if I can get a good warrenty. Might consider used. There is
a
> 5hp Elgin on ebay right now for $75, but it's 50 years old...
>
> Thoughts? Opinions? Go with the expensive Honda 4 strokes? Go with
> the cheapest new one with a warrenty? Buy the $75 Elgin? Buy a
> British Seagull? Anyone? Anyone?
>
> Long shaft? Short shaft?
>
> BTW, my AF2 Entropy is currently on sale at ebay, if anyone is
> interested.
>http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1176301036
Jeff:
Tohatsu has a 15 hp 4 stroke for about 2K.
Chuck
Tohatsu has a 15 hp 4 stroke for about 2K.
Chuck
>
> Now if I could get the 15HP 4-cycle for my next
> birthday..............maybe
> if I'm a really good boy......... :>)
>
>
> Jeff
>
I had a 5hp Mariner (1975 model?) that started and ran flawlessly on an old
production sail boat I owned, except when in close proximity to a rocky
coast. In that situation no curses I knew could persuade it to start.
Roger S
production sail boat I owned, except when in close proximity to a rocky
coast. In that situation no curses I knew could persuade it to start.
Roger S
----- Original Message -----
From: <richard@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 1:19 PM
Subject: [bolger] Outboard rant
> Anybody feel like ranting on the subject of small outboards? I'm in
> the market for a small 5ish hp outboard for the new Chebacco. I'll
> buy new if I can get a good warrenty. Might consider used. There is a
> 5hp Elgin on ebay right now for $75, but it's 50 years old...
>
> Thoughts? Opinions? Go with the expensive Honda 4 strokes? Go with
> the cheapest new one with a warrenty? Buy the $75 Elgin? Buy a
> British Seagull? Anyone? Anyone?
>
> Long shaft? Short shaft?
>
> BTW, my AF2 Entropy is currently on sale at ebay, if anyone is
> interested.
>http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1176301036
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
My thoughts on British Seagull, based on my experiences with them are. Only
if you have a death wish.
Stuart
on 9/8/01 6:19 AM,richard@...at
richard@...wrote:
if you have a death wish.
Stuart
on 9/8/01 6:19 AM,richard@...at
richard@...wrote:
> Anybody feel like ranting on the subject of small outboards? I'm in
> the market for a small 5ish hp outboard for the new Chebacco. I'll
> buy new if I can get a good warrenty. Might consider used. There is a
> 5hp Elgin on ebay right now for $75, but it's 50 years old...
>
> Thoughts? Opinions? Go with the expensive Honda 4 strokes? Go with
> the cheapest new one with a warrenty? Buy the $75 Elgin? Buy a
> British Seagull? Anyone? Anyone?
>
> Long shaft? Short shaft?
>
> BTW, my AF2 Entropy is currently on sale at ebay, if anyone is
> interested.
>http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1176301036
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
My wife reminded me that we got ours for $469.00 on sale 18 months ago. It
was my birthday present. So maybe they will come down in the spring when
you are ready.
Now if I could get the 15HP 4-cycle for my next birthday..............maybe
if I'm a really good boy......... :>)
Jeff
was my birthday present. So maybe they will come down in the spring when
you are ready.
Now if I could get the 15HP 4-cycle for my next birthday..............maybe
if I'm a really good boy......... :>)
Jeff
Boaters World has Tohatsu outboards for about the same price:
http://www.ritzcamera.com/cgi-
bin/ncommerce3/ExecMacro/boatersworld/home.d2w/report?
Krypto=0xTbhRcOn6d2ypSTFtyq6qPjT%2FVrsqAumYjNqwQ7di8l9Xm56%
2BvSXlEt9fHSdeP2L9d6LETYoc3tiHf1laSCCCYyYMrjjY%
2BwgYIUyX4RqRw3qgEJVvw2D6wmgoiDgiYiaELyoh3V3517l1OCF43ei6a40afkrX4FfYx
oDLpdwdtDPizGKCMF29tQzNRtGeGnpYQTWqJFU9w%3D
http://www.ritzcamera.com/cgi-
bin/ncommerce3/ExecMacro/boatersworld/home.d2w/report?
Krypto=0xTbhRcOn6d2ypSTFtyq6qPjT%2FVrsqAumYjNqwQ7di8l9Xm56%
2BvSXlEt9fHSdeP2L9d6LETYoc3tiHf1laSCCCYyYMrjjY%
2BwgYIUyX4RqRw3qgEJVvw2D6wmgoiDgiYiaELyoh3V3517l1OCF43ei6a40afkrX4FfYx
oDLpdwdtDPizGKCMF29tQzNRtGeGnpYQTWqJFU9w%3D
--- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> No, here's a link to Cabelas and they're having a sale.
>
>
http://www.cabelas.com/texis/scripts/store/+/CatalogDisplay/displayPOD
/CabFA
> LL1998/CabFALL1998AUASAB/IB258W
>
>
> Jeff
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <richard@s...>
> To: <bolger@y...>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 3:02 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Outboard rant
>
>
> > Yours looks pretty much like these, no?
> >http://www.centuryarms.com/store/index.html?target=Motors.html
> >
> > --- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> > > I have a 3HP Tonaka. It's an air cooled chain saw motor
mounted on
> > a shaft.
> > > It can be noisy as any 2-cycle and I've learned to turn the gas
off
> > and let
> > > it run dry so it will never flood when tipped up. No gears so
you
> > have to
> > > turn it 180 degrees for reverse. Keep an extra plug on board
if it
> > does
> > > flood, no way to start it otherwise. Once I learned to turn the
> > gas off and
> > > let it run dry, I've never had the problem again.
> > >
> > > The good things are that it's very light weight (27 lbs I
think),
> > easy
> > > start, easy on fuel, has an automatic clutch so at idle the prop
> > stops
> > > turning, exhaust pipe follows the shaft down underwater, and
best
> > of all
> > > it's CHEAP! It has a two year warranty and cost $546.00 new
from
> > Cabelas
> > > with shipping included. Parts are available on the internet too
> > with the
> > > full service manual that can be downloaded.
> > >
> > > It pushes my Frolic easily at hull speed even against a good
head
> > wind. I'm
> > > going to use it on my dingy after the Tennessee is built and
even a
> > backup
> > > for the Tennessee. At least it'll slowly limp me home should
the
> > main
> > > engine be disabled.
> > >
> > > I'd love a 4-cycle but the Tonaka works well enough that it'll
have
> > to die
> > > or be stolen before I bite the expense of the 4-cycle.
> > >
> > > Not a first choice in outboards, but a good alternative.
> > >
> > > Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <richard@s...>
> > > To: <bolger@y...>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 12:19 PM
> > > Subject: [bolger] Outboard rant
> > >
> > >
> > > > Anybody feel like ranting on the subject of small outboards?
I'm
> > in
> > > > the market for a small 5ish hp outboard for the new Chebacco.
I'll
> > > > buy new if I can get a good warrenty. Might consider used.
There
> > is a
> > > > 5hp Elgin on ebay right now for $75, but it's 50 years old...
> > > >
> > > > Thoughts? Opinions? Go with the expensive Honda 4 strokes? Go
with
> > > > the cheapest new one with a warrenty? Buy the $75 Elgin? Buy a
> > > > British Seagull? Anyone? Anyone?
> > > >
> > > > Long shaft? Short shaft?
> > > >
> > > > BTW, my AF2 Entropy is currently on sale at ebay, if anyone is
> > > > interested.
> > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=1176301036
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead
horses
> > > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all
you
> > like
> > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > Gloucester, MA,
> > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
like
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
Sorry, doesn't look like that link will work.
Here's a photo and you can hit the site at www.cabelas.com and look up the
marine engines for the details.
Like I said, not a first choice but a decent alternative.
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Here's a photo and you can hit the site at www.cabelas.com and look up the
marine engines for the details.
Like I said, not a first choice but a decent alternative.
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
No, here's a link to Cabelas and they're having a sale.
http://www.cabelas.com/texis/scripts/store/+/CatalogDisplay/displayPOD/CabFA
LL1998/CabFALL1998AUASAB/IB258W
Jeff
http://www.cabelas.com/texis/scripts/store/+/CatalogDisplay/displayPOD/CabFA
LL1998/CabFALL1998AUASAB/IB258W
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: <richard@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 3:02 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Outboard rant
> Yours looks pretty much like these, no?
>http://www.centuryarms.com/store/index.html?target=Motors.html
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> > I have a 3HP Tonaka. It's an air cooled chain saw motor mounted on
> a shaft.
> > It can be noisy as any 2-cycle and I've learned to turn the gas off
> and let
> > it run dry so it will never flood when tipped up. No gears so you
> have to
> > turn it 180 degrees for reverse. Keep an extra plug on board if it
> does
> > flood, no way to start it otherwise. Once I learned to turn the
> gas off and
> > let it run dry, I've never had the problem again.
> >
> > The good things are that it's very light weight (27 lbs I think),
> easy
> > start, easy on fuel, has an automatic clutch so at idle the prop
> stops
> > turning, exhaust pipe follows the shaft down underwater, and best
> of all
> > it's CHEAP! It has a two year warranty and cost $546.00 new from
> Cabelas
> > with shipping included. Parts are available on the internet too
> with the
> > full service manual that can be downloaded.
> >
> > It pushes my Frolic easily at hull speed even against a good head
> wind. I'm
> > going to use it on my dingy after the Tennessee is built and even a
> backup
> > for the Tennessee. At least it'll slowly limp me home should the
> main
> > engine be disabled.
> >
> > I'd love a 4-cycle but the Tonaka works well enough that it'll have
> to die
> > or be stolen before I bite the expense of the 4-cycle.
> >
> > Not a first choice in outboards, but a good alternative.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <richard@s...>
> > To: <bolger@y...>
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 12:19 PM
> > Subject: [bolger] Outboard rant
> >
> >
> > > Anybody feel like ranting on the subject of small outboards? I'm
> in
> > > the market for a small 5ish hp outboard for the new Chebacco. I'll
> > > buy new if I can get a good warrenty. Might consider used. There
> is a
> > > 5hp Elgin on ebay right now for $75, but it's 50 years old...
> > >
> > > Thoughts? Opinions? Go with the expensive Honda 4 strokes? Go with
> > > the cheapest new one with a warrenty? Buy the $75 Elgin? Buy a
> > > British Seagull? Anyone? Anyone?
> > >
> > > Long shaft? Short shaft?
> > >
> > > BTW, my AF2 Entropy is currently on sale at ebay, if anyone is
> > > interested.
> > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1176301036
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
> like
> > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA,
> > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Yours looks pretty much like these, no?
http://www.centuryarms.com/store/index.html?target=Motors.html
http://www.centuryarms.com/store/index.html?target=Motors.html
--- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> I have a 3HP Tonaka. It's an air cooled chain saw motor mounted on
a shaft.
> It can be noisy as any 2-cycle and I've learned to turn the gas off
and let
> it run dry so it will never flood when tipped up. No gears so you
have to
> turn it 180 degrees for reverse. Keep an extra plug on board if it
does
> flood, no way to start it otherwise. Once I learned to turn the
gas off and
> let it run dry, I've never had the problem again.
>
> The good things are that it's very light weight (27 lbs I think),
easy
> start, easy on fuel, has an automatic clutch so at idle the prop
stops
> turning, exhaust pipe follows the shaft down underwater, and best
of all
> it's CHEAP! It has a two year warranty and cost $546.00 new from
Cabelas
> with shipping included. Parts are available on the internet too
with the
> full service manual that can be downloaded.
>
> It pushes my Frolic easily at hull speed even against a good head
wind. I'm
> going to use it on my dingy after the Tennessee is built and even a
backup
> for the Tennessee. At least it'll slowly limp me home should the
main
> engine be disabled.
>
> I'd love a 4-cycle but the Tonaka works well enough that it'll have
to die
> or be stolen before I bite the expense of the 4-cycle.
>
> Not a first choice in outboards, but a good alternative.
>
> Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <richard@s...>
> To: <bolger@y...>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 12:19 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Outboard rant
>
>
> > Anybody feel like ranting on the subject of small outboards? I'm
in
> > the market for a small 5ish hp outboard for the new Chebacco. I'll
> > buy new if I can get a good warrenty. Might consider used. There
is a
> > 5hp Elgin on ebay right now for $75, but it's 50 years old...
> >
> > Thoughts? Opinions? Go with the expensive Honda 4 strokes? Go with
> > the cheapest new one with a warrenty? Buy the $75 Elgin? Buy a
> > British Seagull? Anyone? Anyone?
> >
> > Long shaft? Short shaft?
> >
> > BTW, my AF2 Entropy is currently on sale at ebay, if anyone is
> > interested.
> >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1176301036
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
like
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
I've just about had it with used outboards, no matter who has fixed,
rebuilt, or blessed them. Today I tried the 3rd. used motor from a
friend whose hobby is OB's on my Diablo. The one that missed the
Champlain Messabout due to technical difficulties. It was a rebuilt
Evinrude 20, planed it out like a charm fo 5 minutes. Then it had a
hernia and refused to go above half throttle. Unable to plane I
limped back, thanking the OB gods that at least it didn't quit
altogether.
I'm getting a new Honda 25 with alternator and electric start for
her, and won't have anything except new from now on. I'm too old for
this *!%$. My hobby is boatbuilding and boating, not worshiping the
OB gods. Bruce Hector
rebuilt, or blessed them. Today I tried the 3rd. used motor from a
friend whose hobby is OB's on my Diablo. The one that missed the
Champlain Messabout due to technical difficulties. It was a rebuilt
Evinrude 20, planed it out like a charm fo 5 minutes. Then it had a
hernia and refused to go above half throttle. Unable to plane I
limped back, thanking the OB gods that at least it didn't quit
altogether.
I'm getting a new Honda 25 with alternator and electric start for
her, and won't have anything except new from now on. I'm too old for
this *!%$. My hobby is boatbuilding and boating, not worshiping the
OB gods. Bruce Hector
I have a 3HP Tonaka. It's an air cooled chain saw motor mounted on a shaft.
It can be noisy as any 2-cycle and I've learned to turn the gas off and let
it run dry so it will never flood when tipped up. No gears so you have to
turn it 180 degrees for reverse. Keep an extra plug on board if it does
flood, no way to start it otherwise. Once I learned to turn the gas off and
let it run dry, I've never had the problem again.
The good things are that it's very light weight (27 lbs I think), easy
start, easy on fuel, has an automatic clutch so at idle the prop stops
turning, exhaust pipe follows the shaft down underwater, and best of all
it's CHEAP! It has a two year warranty and cost $546.00 new from Cabelas
with shipping included. Parts are available on the internet too with the
full service manual that can be downloaded.
It pushes my Frolic easily at hull speed even against a good head wind. I'm
going to use it on my dingy after the Tennessee is built and even a backup
for the Tennessee. At least it'll slowly limp me home should the main
engine be disabled.
I'd love a 4-cycle but the Tonaka works well enough that it'll have to die
or be stolen before I bite the expense of the 4-cycle.
Not a first choice in outboards, but a good alternative.
Jeff
It can be noisy as any 2-cycle and I've learned to turn the gas off and let
it run dry so it will never flood when tipped up. No gears so you have to
turn it 180 degrees for reverse. Keep an extra plug on board if it does
flood, no way to start it otherwise. Once I learned to turn the gas off and
let it run dry, I've never had the problem again.
The good things are that it's very light weight (27 lbs I think), easy
start, easy on fuel, has an automatic clutch so at idle the prop stops
turning, exhaust pipe follows the shaft down underwater, and best of all
it's CHEAP! It has a two year warranty and cost $546.00 new from Cabelas
with shipping included. Parts are available on the internet too with the
full service manual that can be downloaded.
It pushes my Frolic easily at hull speed even against a good head wind. I'm
going to use it on my dingy after the Tennessee is built and even a backup
for the Tennessee. At least it'll slowly limp me home should the main
engine be disabled.
I'd love a 4-cycle but the Tonaka works well enough that it'll have to die
or be stolen before I bite the expense of the 4-cycle.
Not a first choice in outboards, but a good alternative.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: <richard@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 12:19 PM
Subject: [bolger] Outboard rant
> Anybody feel like ranting on the subject of small outboards? I'm in
> the market for a small 5ish hp outboard for the new Chebacco. I'll
> buy new if I can get a good warrenty. Might consider used. There is a
> 5hp Elgin on ebay right now for $75, but it's 50 years old...
>
> Thoughts? Opinions? Go with the expensive Honda 4 strokes? Go with
> the cheapest new one with a warrenty? Buy the $75 Elgin? Buy a
> British Seagull? Anyone? Anyone?
>
> Long shaft? Short shaft?
>
> BTW, my AF2 Entropy is currently on sale at ebay, if anyone is
> interested.
>http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1176301036
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Richard:
Let us know how the bidding comes out on your AF2.
I think you know what I will say about outboards - buy new, and you will
have no trouble. The new four strokes, while dear, are great units. They
will: start consistently, run quietly, not need oil mixed with the gas (this
means that any left over gas can be put in your car's tank), and require
little service.
Max, you probably have a different opinion.
Chuck
Let us know how the bidding comes out on your AF2.
I think you know what I will say about outboards - buy new, and you will
have no trouble. The new four strokes, while dear, are great units. They
will: start consistently, run quietly, not need oil mixed with the gas (this
means that any left over gas can be put in your car's tank), and require
little service.
Max, you probably have a different opinion.
Chuck
>
> Anybody feel like ranting on the subject of small outboards? I'm in
> the market for a small 5ish hp outboard for the new Chebacco. I'll
> buy new if I can get a good warrenty. Might consider used. There is a
> 5hp Elgin on ebay right now for $75, but it's 50 years old...
>
> Thoughts? Opinions? Go with the expensive Honda 4 strokes? Go with
> the cheapest new one with a warrenty? Buy the $75 Elgin? Buy a
> British Seagull? Anyone? Anyone?
>
> Long shaft? Short shaft?
>
> BTW, my AF2 Entropy is currently on sale at ebay, if anyone is
> interested.
>http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1176301036
>
>
>
Anybody feel like ranting on the subject of small outboards? I'm in
the market for a small 5ish hp outboard for the new Chebacco. I'll
buy new if I can get a good warrenty. Might consider used. There is a
5hp Elgin on ebay right now for $75, but it's 50 years old...
Thoughts? Opinions? Go with the expensive Honda 4 strokes? Go with
the cheapest new one with a warrenty? Buy the $75 Elgin? Buy a
British Seagull? Anyone? Anyone?
Long shaft? Short shaft?
BTW, my AF2 Entropy is currently on sale at ebay, if anyone is
interested.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1176301036
the market for a small 5ish hp outboard for the new Chebacco. I'll
buy new if I can get a good warrenty. Might consider used. There is a
5hp Elgin on ebay right now for $75, but it's 50 years old...
Thoughts? Opinions? Go with the expensive Honda 4 strokes? Go with
the cheapest new one with a warrenty? Buy the $75 Elgin? Buy a
British Seagull? Anyone? Anyone?
Long shaft? Short shaft?
BTW, my AF2 Entropy is currently on sale at ebay, if anyone is
interested.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1176301036