Re: [bolger] Re: Greetings boatbuilders
On my Cynthia J I did my but joints by using a thick pile of news paper
underneath, so there was no need to pry anything apart before bending the
nails over.
Stuart Crawford
on 16/8/01 3:16 AM,jeffbob@...atjeffbob@...wrote:
underneath, so there was no need to pry anything apart before bending the
nails over.
Stuart Crawford
on 16/8/01 3:16 AM,jeffbob@...atjeffbob@...wrote:
> All,
>
> Thanks for all the feedback so far.
>
> A couple more questions:
>
> What fasteners do you use? and what sizes?
> - ring shank nails
> - screws
>
> I imagine both depending on the task; screws for attaching framing to
> transoms, bulkheads, & gunwhales to the sides and nails for attaching
> the bottom.
>
> Do you countersink your screwheads or just leave them flush?
> - 1/4" ply doesn't leave much room to countersink
>
>
> Dynamite suggest beveling framing prior to attaching to transoms,etc.
> How is this possible when 3 or more sides need a bevel as is the case
> with fore and after bulkheads/frames; the lower corners have bevels in
> two directions?
>
> I also have trouble visualizing how the butt joint is fastened. Just
> fire nails through from the outside into the butt block using a scrap
> underneath then pry it apart and bend the nails over on the inside.
> Seems like a pain. Is there an easier way?
>
> Thanks again for all your insight and experience.
>
> Jeff
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Jeff --
The cordless electric screw driver make screws a great way to fasten
a well-glued boat. If you use stainless screws you can just leave
them in place, or use sheet rock screws as "clamps" and then back
them out and fill the holes. No more need for a $300 collection of
clamps!
Although epoxy is very forgiving of bad joinery, and very strong,
having to mix batches for each gluing step is bit of a pain. For any
of the instant boats I'm sure you could use wood glue or PL or
whatever for the assembly, clamp with screws and save the epoxy for
the maintenance free glass skin.
YIBB,
David
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
The cordless electric screw driver make screws a great way to fasten
a well-glued boat. If you use stainless screws you can just leave
them in place, or use sheet rock screws as "clamps" and then back
them out and fill the holes. No more need for a $300 collection of
clamps!
Although epoxy is very forgiving of bad joinery, and very strong,
having to mix batches for each gluing step is bit of a pain. For any
of the instant boats I'm sure you could use wood glue or PL or
whatever for the assembly, clamp with screws and save the epoxy for
the maintenance free glass skin.
YIBB,
David
>All,CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
>
>Thanks for all the feedback so far.
>
>A couple more questions:
>
>What fasteners do you use? and what sizes?
> - ring shank nails
> - screws
>
>I imagine both depending on the task; screws for attaching framing to
>transoms, bulkheads, & gunwhales to the sides and nails for attaching
>the bottom.
>
>Do you countersink your screwheads or just leave them flush?
> - 1/4" ply doesn't leave much room to countersink
>
>
>Dynamite suggest beveling framing prior to attaching to transoms,etc.
>How is this possible when 3 or more sides need a bevel as is the case
>with fore and after bulkheads/frames; the lower corners have bevels in
>two directions?
>
>I also have trouble visualizing how the butt joint is fastened. Just
>fire nails through from the outside into the butt block using a scrap
>underneath then pry it apart and bend the nails over on the inside.
>Seems like a pain. Is there an easier way?
>
>Thanks again for all your insight and experience.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
You might consider using a polyurethane glue like "PL Premium" from a
tube or from a bottle for gluing chine logs, frames, clamps,
stringers etc. No mixing required and the joint is waterproof and
plenty strong.
Frank
tube or from a bottle for gluing chine logs, frames, clamps,
stringers etc. No mixing required and the joint is waterproof and
plenty strong.
Frank
--- In bolger@y..., jeffbob@i... wrote:
>
> How long can I expect my boat to last without using epoxy/fiberglass
> tape?
>
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Jeff
When I built my teal last year, I used West System epoxy, because
that was all I knew of - and their glue filler, and fairing filler.
It's expensive, but I'm not sorry I used it (for my next boat, I will
shop around). I used it liberally, this being my first boat building
experience and I didn't want anything springing apart while
underway. I epoxied all panels while they were flat.
When I made a butt joint, I sanded the epoxied surfaces, wet the
end grain - lined up the pieces on waxpaper - wet the surfaces on the
sides and butt piece - and held the whole thing down with a cinder
block. When dry, I flexed it good, no failures.
In attaching the bottom (I used 1/4 luan): any bevelling of the
chines was done with a block plane and a straight edge resting
athwartship as a try square. I glued and tacked the bottom in place
using brads that I later removed. While tacked in place, I
countersunk small stainless steel screws. Removed the brads, filled
the screws over with epoxy.
Any voids between the bottom and the chines were filled with
epoxy, and the whole bottom (and the skeg)was fiberglassed up to the
top edge of the chine.
Although I have a small tool shop, there is no room for a boat.
The first thing I did was go buy some cheapo saw horses, some 16'
2x4s, and two sheets of 1/2" CDX. I made a nice long and flat
worktable in the backyard (this is where my wife started getting
worried, so far boatbuilding had been all talk). I got two small sun-
shade tents and put them over the table, and now I had a quick and
cheap outdoor assembly area.
Don Craig
that was all I knew of - and their glue filler, and fairing filler.
It's expensive, but I'm not sorry I used it (for my next boat, I will
shop around). I used it liberally, this being my first boat building
experience and I didn't want anything springing apart while
underway. I epoxied all panels while they were flat.
When I made a butt joint, I sanded the epoxied surfaces, wet the
end grain - lined up the pieces on waxpaper - wet the surfaces on the
sides and butt piece - and held the whole thing down with a cinder
block. When dry, I flexed it good, no failures.
In attaching the bottom (I used 1/4 luan): any bevelling of the
chines was done with a block plane and a straight edge resting
athwartship as a try square. I glued and tacked the bottom in place
using brads that I later removed. While tacked in place, I
countersunk small stainless steel screws. Removed the brads, filled
the screws over with epoxy.
Any voids between the bottom and the chines were filled with
epoxy, and the whole bottom (and the skeg)was fiberglassed up to the
top edge of the chine.
Although I have a small tool shop, there is no room for a boat.
The first thing I did was go buy some cheapo saw horses, some 16'
2x4s, and two sheets of 1/2" CDX. I made a nice long and flat
worktable in the backyard (this is where my wife started getting
worried, so far boatbuilding had been all talk). I got two small sun-
shade tents and put them over the table, and now I had a quick and
cheap outdoor assembly area.
Don Craig
--- In bolger@y..., jeffbob@i... wrote:
> All,
>
> Thanks for all the feedback so far.
>
> A couple more questions:
>
> What fasteners do you use? and what sizes?
> - ring shank nails
> - screws
>
> I imagine both depending on the task; screws for attaching framing
to
> transoms, bulkheads, & gunwhales to the sides and nails for
attaching
> the bottom.
>
> Do you countersink your screwheads or just leave them flush?
> - 1/4" ply doesn't leave much room to countersink
>
>
> Dynamite suggest beveling framing prior to attaching to
transoms,etc.
> How is this possible when 3 or more sides need a bevel as is the
case
> with fore and after bulkheads/frames; the lower corners have bevels
in
> two directions?
>
> I also have trouble visualizing how the butt joint is fastened.
Just
> fire nails through from the outside into the butt block using a
scrap
> underneath then pry it apart and bend the nails over on the inside.
> Seems like a pain. Is there an easier way?
>
> Thanks again for all your insight and experience.
>
> Jeff
You weren't at the messabout, right? (Or am I showing early senility?)
Sorry if following is a bit scattered.
Don't let them talk you out of the Brick. It sails fine, just not
fast. Very roomy and comfortable, very stable, very simple. I haven't
sailed it with 3 people, but 2 large people make it seem UNDERloaded.
Rowing is possible, but slow.
Only 2 bevels that I recall on the Brick, and they are on 4 foot long
straight pieces which you can bevel on a table saw. (However, I didn't
build it myself, one came on the market just before I was going to
start. I even had the plans.)
If you want, you can take the fasteners back out after gluing. Then
you can use cheapo drywall screws.
No butt blocks on Brick!
re durability: ours was done with luan (I think), painted with latex,
edges "protected" with polyester and glass. Kept outside for 2 or 3
years, then under a porch for a year. Only problem is peeling of
polyester, and rot under polyester. THe paint is in good shape. I
think it's worth taping and epoxy on the edges only. You can get small
quantities of this stuff and do the job in an hour or less. The
painted luan is in great shape. However, I understand there is good
and bad luan, and I know some of the other kinds of plywood tend to
check. (My southern yellow pine daggerboard is getting lumpy).
I think the large plans are probably worth it. Less likely to make a
mistake unless you have little tiny eyes. If you get them from Bolger
you have the right to pester Bolger a little bit. Plus you get this
cute additional gaff rig plan, tho I prefer the stock rig. If you get
them from Payson you have the right to pester Payson.
Remember, if you build Brick, you probably won't be tempted to "gold
plate" it, so you might make it this season.
If you're close by in MA, you can come look at ours. I don't know when
we'll be sailing it next, though.
There is also a "Big Tortoise" design. I don't know much about it.
I'm sure those other boats are fine, and not too hard to build, but I
bet Brick is significantly easier, with less bevels and butt blocks,
and more capacity. Just don't get in a race with them. You can use the
rig on one of those you build next year.
Might want to make a swing up rudder.
Sorry if following is a bit scattered.
Don't let them talk you out of the Brick. It sails fine, just not
fast. Very roomy and comfortable, very stable, very simple. I haven't
sailed it with 3 people, but 2 large people make it seem UNDERloaded.
Rowing is possible, but slow.
Only 2 bevels that I recall on the Brick, and they are on 4 foot long
straight pieces which you can bevel on a table saw. (However, I didn't
build it myself, one came on the market just before I was going to
start. I even had the plans.)
If you want, you can take the fasteners back out after gluing. Then
you can use cheapo drywall screws.
No butt blocks on Brick!
re durability: ours was done with luan (I think), painted with latex,
edges "protected" with polyester and glass. Kept outside for 2 or 3
years, then under a porch for a year. Only problem is peeling of
polyester, and rot under polyester. THe paint is in good shape. I
think it's worth taping and epoxy on the edges only. You can get small
quantities of this stuff and do the job in an hour or less. The
painted luan is in great shape. However, I understand there is good
and bad luan, and I know some of the other kinds of plywood tend to
check. (My southern yellow pine daggerboard is getting lumpy).
I think the large plans are probably worth it. Less likely to make a
mistake unless you have little tiny eyes. If you get them from Bolger
you have the right to pester Bolger a little bit. Plus you get this
cute additional gaff rig plan, tho I prefer the stock rig. If you get
them from Payson you have the right to pester Payson.
Remember, if you build Brick, you probably won't be tempted to "gold
plate" it, so you might make it this season.
If you're close by in MA, you can come look at ours. I don't know when
we'll be sailing it next, though.
There is also a "Big Tortoise" design. I don't know much about it.
I'm sure those other boats are fine, and not too hard to build, but I
bet Brick is significantly easier, with less bevels and butt blocks,
and more capacity. Just don't get in a race with them. You can use the
rig on one of those you build next year.
Might want to make a swing up rudder.
--- In bolger@y..., jeffbob@i... wrote:
> All,
>
> Thanks for all the feedback so far.
>
> A couple more questions:
>
> What fasteners do you use? and what sizes?
> - ring shank nails
> - screws
>
> I imagine both depending on the task; screws for attaching framing
to
> transoms, bulkheads, & gunwhales to the sides and nails for
attaching
> the bottom.
>
> Do you countersink your screwheads or just leave them flush?
> - 1/4" ply doesn't leave much room to countersink
>
>
> Dynamite suggest beveling framing prior to attaching to
transoms,etc.
> How is this possible when 3 or more sides need a bevel as is the
case
> with fore and after bulkheads/frames; the lower corners have bevels
in
> two directions?
>
> I also have trouble visualizing how the butt joint is fastened.
Just
> fire nails through from the outside into the butt block using a
scrap
> underneath then pry it apart and bend the nails over on the inside.
> Seems like a pain. Is there an easier way?
>
> Thanks again for all your insight and experience.
>
> Jeff
All,
Thanks for all the feedback so far.
A couple more questions:
What fasteners do you use? and what sizes?
- ring shank nails
- screws
I imagine both depending on the task; screws for attaching framing to
transoms, bulkheads, & gunwhales to the sides and nails for attaching
the bottom.
Do you countersink your screwheads or just leave them flush?
- 1/4" ply doesn't leave much room to countersink
Dynamite suggest beveling framing prior to attaching to transoms,etc.
How is this possible when 3 or more sides need a bevel as is the case
with fore and after bulkheads/frames; the lower corners have bevels in
two directions?
I also have trouble visualizing how the butt joint is fastened. Just
fire nails through from the outside into the butt block using a scrap
underneath then pry it apart and bend the nails over on the inside.
Seems like a pain. Is there an easier way?
Thanks again for all your insight and experience.
Jeff
Thanks for all the feedback so far.
A couple more questions:
What fasteners do you use? and what sizes?
- ring shank nails
- screws
I imagine both depending on the task; screws for attaching framing to
transoms, bulkheads, & gunwhales to the sides and nails for attaching
the bottom.
Do you countersink your screwheads or just leave them flush?
- 1/4" ply doesn't leave much room to countersink
Dynamite suggest beveling framing prior to attaching to transoms,etc.
How is this possible when 3 or more sides need a bevel as is the case
with fore and after bulkheads/frames; the lower corners have bevels in
two directions?
I also have trouble visualizing how the butt joint is fastened. Just
fire nails through from the outside into the butt block using a scrap
underneath then pry it apart and bend the nails over on the inside.
Seems like a pain. Is there an easier way?
Thanks again for all your insight and experience.
Jeff
Yes, it's possible to build from the book. Most people enlarge the
pages 200% on a photocopier. You can also use a magnifying glass.
It's OK, if the author choses to put enough info in the book, he
knows that some will build directly from it. I've seen Phil in print
say that he know's people will build from it. He possibly makes more
on royalties from 1000's of books. There are certainly increased plan
sales that the recognition authoring his books creates.
I built my: Nymph, Diablo and Skimmer from "Build the New Instant
Boats" by Payson. My Piroque was build from "Boats With an Open Mind"
by PCB. I don't feel like I've stolen any intelectual property, I
paid for the books.
From PC&F I've purchased plans for Sneakeasy, Hawkeye and the
Chebacco Motorsailer. My Micro is going together, slowly, by plans
from Common Sense Designs.
Build from books if you want to or can. Purchase plans for the
increased detail, building key and support. Either way is OK.
pages 200% on a photocopier. You can also use a magnifying glass.
It's OK, if the author choses to put enough info in the book, he
knows that some will build directly from it. I've seen Phil in print
say that he know's people will build from it. He possibly makes more
on royalties from 1000's of books. There are certainly increased plan
sales that the recognition authoring his books creates.
I built my: Nymph, Diablo and Skimmer from "Build the New Instant
Boats" by Payson. My Piroque was build from "Boats With an Open Mind"
by PCB. I don't feel like I've stolen any intelectual property, I
paid for the books.
From PC&F I've purchased plans for Sneakeasy, Hawkeye and the
Chebacco Motorsailer. My Micro is going together, slowly, by plans
from Common Sense Designs.
Build from books if you want to or can. Purchase plans for the
increased detail, building key and support. Either way is OK.
--- In bolger@y..., jeffbob@i... wrote:
that you can read all the numbers. You can't really scale off the
small-scale plans, but anyone who scales plans deserves all the
trouble they get. If complete plans are published in a book, it is
entirely legitimate to build a boat from those plans. If you bought
a book on, say growing cactus, it would be entirely legitimate to
grow all the cactus you wanted, no?
OTOH, if you want larger scale plans, or would like to support
Dynamite Payson (who's a great guy, BTW), or would like to be able to
call up and ask questions during construction, by all means buy the
plans; they're not very expensive. If you do buy the larger-scale
plans, go to a copy shop with an engineering copier and get several
additional copies made; that way you can spill glue and paint on them
and not worry.
paint, how the boat is stored, how well it's maintained. If you keep
it dry, off the ground, and covered when not in use, and keep up the
paint carefully, it should last quite a while. I built a Gypsy 12
years ago with ACX fir plywood and polyester resin, and it's still
going strong despite indifferent care. It had fiberglass sheathing
on the outside, though.
If you want a boat to sail, I wouldn't suggest one of the boxes.
Surf or Windsprint would be a lot more fun, IMHO, and they look like
boats. Teal is VERY easy and quick to build; I built one in a week
after work without straining, but it's a really small boat. Two
adults is an overload. None of these designs is at all hard to
build; Surf and Windsprint are basically the same boat as Teal, just
larger. Windsprint has the lugsail and a LOT more sail area; it
would be good for areas of lighter wind or for those who like a bit
more excitement while sailing. You might also want to look at Gypsy
and Cartopper, which require a little more effort, but are a lot
prettier. There is a lot of work with nasty goop involved in either
of these designs, however.
FWIW, there was a good how-to-build article about Cartopper by Payson
in WoodenBoat a few years ago (issues #86, 87 & 88), which included
complete small-scale plans, and the best description of how to use
polyester resin without getting into trouble that I've ever read. If
you go to www.woodenboat.com, you can buy back issues.
> How feasible is it to build from the plans in Payson's book(s)?Completely feasible; I've done it. The reproduction is good enough
that you can read all the numbers. You can't really scale off the
small-scale plans, but anyone who scales plans deserves all the
trouble they get. If complete plans are published in a book, it is
entirely legitimate to build a boat from those plans. If you bought
a book on, say growing cactus, it would be entirely legitimate to
grow all the cactus you wanted, no?
OTOH, if you want larger scale plans, or would like to support
Dynamite Payson (who's a great guy, BTW), or would like to be able to
call up and ask questions during construction, by all means buy the
plans; they're not very expensive. If you do buy the larger-scale
plans, go to a copy shop with an engineering copier and get several
additional copies made; that way you can spill glue and paint on them
and not worry.
> Can I just scale up 'Tortoise' to build a 'Brick', since Payson hasI wouldn't. They're rather different.
> not included this design in his books?
> How long can I expect my boat to last without using epoxy/fiberglassDepends on a lot of other things: What kind of plywood, what kind of
> tape?
paint, how the boat is stored, how well it's maintained. If you keep
it dry, off the ground, and covered when not in use, and keep up the
paint carefully, it should last quite a while. I built a Gypsy 12
years ago with ACX fir plywood and polyester resin, and it's still
going strong despite indifferent care. It had fiberglass sheathing
on the outside, though.
If you want a boat to sail, I wouldn't suggest one of the boxes.
Surf or Windsprint would be a lot more fun, IMHO, and they look like
boats. Teal is VERY easy and quick to build; I built one in a week
after work without straining, but it's a really small boat. Two
adults is an overload. None of these designs is at all hard to
build; Surf and Windsprint are basically the same boat as Teal, just
larger. Windsprint has the lugsail and a LOT more sail area; it
would be good for areas of lighter wind or for those who like a bit
more excitement while sailing. You might also want to look at Gypsy
and Cartopper, which require a little more effort, but are a lot
prettier. There is a lot of work with nasty goop involved in either
of these designs, however.
FWIW, there was a good how-to-build article about Cartopper by Payson
in WoodenBoat a few years ago (issues #86, 87 & 88), which included
complete small-scale plans, and the best description of how to use
polyester resin without getting into trouble that I've ever read. If
you go to www.woodenboat.com, you can buy back issues.
He is NOT refering to Harold Payson, who Bolger continues to support.
----------
----------
>You seem to imply that Phil Bolger recieves or recieved no
>compensation for his participation in Payson's Instant Boat books. I
>seriously doubt if this is true and I think it unfair to imply that
>anyone who builds from Payson's books is somehow cheating PCB in some
>way. Surely such an upstanding fellow as Harold Payson wouldn't
>allow it. If, on the other hand, you would like to say that it is
>worth $35+ to get additional pages of details and an opportunity to
>pick Bolger's brain on his design then I would have to agree.
>
>Roger S
>
>
><SNIP>
>--- In bolger@y..., "Samson Family" <Bill.Samson@t...> wrote:
>> >>
>> On a serious note, Phil Bolger has given all of us a lot of
>pleasure and it
>> seems to me to be wrong to try and get around paying him his due
>for a set
>> of drawings. If everybody did that he wouldn't have stayed in
>business and
>> we'd never have had the joy of studying his work and building from
>his
>> designs. As many of us know, Phil has told us how he was
>systematically
>> short-changed over the years by one agent for his designs - Let's
>not add to
>> the injustice.
>> <SNIP>
>> > Bill Samson
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
>01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Payson is one person who Phil Bolger has NO problems with. In fact PCB has
stated that Payson is the only other legitimate source of his plans outside
of Bolger & Friends.
Stuart Crawford
on 16/8/01 12:33 AM,roger99a@...atroger99a@...wrote:
stated that Payson is the only other legitimate source of his plans outside
of Bolger & Friends.
Stuart Crawford
on 16/8/01 12:33 AM,roger99a@...atroger99a@...wrote:
> You seem to imply that Phil Bolger recieves or recieved no
> compensation for his participation in Payson's Instant Boat books. I
> seriously doubt if this is true and I think it unfair to imply that
> anyone who builds from Payson's books is somehow cheating PCB in some
> way. Surely such an upstanding fellow as Harold Payson wouldn't
> allow it. If, on the other hand, you would like to say that it is
> worth $35+ to get additional pages of details and an opportunity to
> pick Bolger's brain on his design then I would have to agree.
>
> Roger S
>
>
> <SNIP>
> --- In bolger@y..., "Samson Family" <Bill.Samson@t...> wrote:
>>>>
>> On a serious note, Phil Bolger has given all of us a lot of
> pleasure and it
>> seems to me to be wrong to try and get around paying him his due
> for a set
>> of drawings. If everybody did that he wouldn't have stayed in
> business and
>> we'd never have had the joy of studying his work and building from
> his
>> designs. As many of us know, Phil has told us how he was
> systematically
>> short-changed over the years by one agent for his designs - Let's
> not add to
>> the injustice.
>> <SNIP>
>>> Bill Samson
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
You seem to imply that Phil Bolger recieves or recieved no
compensation for his participation in Payson's Instant Boat books. I
seriously doubt if this is true and I think it unfair to imply that
anyone who builds from Payson's books is somehow cheating PCB in some
way. Surely such an upstanding fellow as Harold Payson wouldn't
allow it. If, on the other hand, you would like to say that it is
worth $35+ to get additional pages of details and an opportunity to
pick Bolger's brain on his design then I would have to agree.
Roger S
<SNIP>
compensation for his participation in Payson's Instant Boat books. I
seriously doubt if this is true and I think it unfair to imply that
anyone who builds from Payson's books is somehow cheating PCB in some
way. Surely such an upstanding fellow as Harold Payson wouldn't
allow it. If, on the other hand, you would like to say that it is
worth $35+ to get additional pages of details and an opportunity to
pick Bolger's brain on his design then I would have to agree.
Roger S
<SNIP>
--- In bolger@y..., "Samson Family" <Bill.Samson@t...> wrote:
> >>
> On a serious note, Phil Bolger has given all of us a lot of
pleasure and it
> seems to me to be wrong to try and get around paying him his due
for a set
> of drawings. If everybody did that he wouldn't have stayed in
business and
> we'd never have had the joy of studying his work and building from
his
> designs. As many of us know, Phil has told us how he was
systematically
> short-changed over the years by one agent for his designs - Let's
not add to
> the injustice.
> <SNIP>
> > Bill Samson
> How long can I expect my boat to last without using epoxy/fiberglassMy june bug was built by somebody else using marine ply for the
> tape?
>
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Jeff
floor and crappy pine ply of unknown origin elsewhere. the marine ply
got a coat of epoxy resin inside and out , the rest was jost painted.
No glass was used.the floor is in perfect nick but the rest is in
constant need of repair due to being outside for 2 wet summers, some
parts were so bad I ground out 1/2 the ply ,filled with glass then
ground out from the other side
If I was biulding a new one ( it would be quicker that trying to re-
re-restore the old one, I would use 3/8 marine ply for the
bottom ,1/4 marine ply elsewhere, no glasss, just glue and screw,
with a coat of thickened epoxy under the paint.
a word of warning for those about to use liquid nails. I just tried
it on my latest mods. It was great to just reach for the gluegun and
squeeze. BUT after finishing and painting, I now have yellow stains
coming through the white paint and on the new tiller a bead of glue
is growing on a previosly smooth joint. I think this glue might be
reserved for bash-em boats only.
Any help? Paul
>Or should I lay out the cash for actual plans? Is there otherIt is MUCH easier to build from actual plans. Their cost is a tiny faction
>documentation included with the plans that is not printed in Payson's
>books?
of what you'll spend on the boat, and you'll probably make far fewer
(possibly expensive) mistakes by having the proper plans in front of you.
Most plans (not all) come with a building key which gives step-by-step
instructions. If you buy your drawings from Phil himself, he'll be
available for advice as your project progresses. Excellent value, I'd have
thought!
On a serious note, Phil Bolger has given all of us a lot of pleasure and it
seems to me to be wrong to try and get around paying him his due for a set
of drawings. If everybody did that he wouldn't have stayed in business and
we'd never have had the joy of studying his work and building from his
designs. As many of us know, Phil has told us how he was systematically
short-changed over the years by one agent for his designs - Let's not add to
the injustice.
>Can I just scale up 'Tortoise' to build a 'Brick', since Payson hasNo - they're very different boats despite their apparent similarities. The
>not included this design in his books?
cost of plans is minimal anyway.
>How long can I expect my boat to last without using epoxy/fiberglass3 years maybe? That's my experience with a cheaply built June Bug that was
>tape?
kept outside. Your choice.
Bill Samson
I built my Gypsy right from the book and a good time doing it. It
probably would have gone faster if I had plans.
Roger S
probably would have gone faster if I had plans.
Roger S
--- In bolger@y..., jeffbob@i... wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Finally joined the group after lurking for a few months.
>
> I purchased both of Payson's 'Instant Boat' books shortly
after I
> came across his site which led me here.
>
> I have been going back and forth as to which boat I want to
attempt
> to build first. I went from E. Punt to Teal to Windsprint to Surf;
> now I am thinking that a Brick would be the easiest and quickest to
> get together before winter sets in here in MA. By the way, I want
to
> use this boat for sailing.
>
> Questions:
>
> How feasible is it to build from the plans in Payson's book(s)?
>
> Or should I lay out the cash for actual plans? Is there other
> documentation included with the plans that is not printed in
Payson's
> books?
>
> Can I just scale up 'Tortoise' to build a 'Brick', since Payson has
> not included this design in his books?
>
> How long can I expect my boat to last without using epoxy/fiberglass
> tape?
>
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Jeff
>Questions:Pony up the money. It'll make building easier, and it's the right thing to do.
>
>How feasible is it to build from the plans in Payson's book(s)?
>
>Or should I lay out the cash for actual plans? Is there other
>documentation included with the plans that is not printed in Payson's
>books?
>Can I just scale up 'Tortoise' to build a 'Brick', since Payson hasIf you're going to be sailing, build the Surf!
>not included this design in his books?
>How long can I expect my boat to last without using epoxy/fiberglassA light coat of glass and epoxy is well worth the price for ease of
>tape?
maintenance. Without it, the boat will probably last forever, but
you'll have to paint it every season.
YIBB,
David
CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296
Hello,
Finally joined the group after lurking for a few months.
I purchased both of Payson's 'Instant Boat' books shortly after I
came across his site which led me here.
I have been going back and forth as to which boat I want to attempt
to build first. I went from E. Punt to Teal to Windsprint to Surf;
now I am thinking that a Brick would be the easiest and quickest to
get together before winter sets in here in MA. By the way, I want to
use this boat for sailing.
Questions:
How feasible is it to build from the plans in Payson's book(s)?
Or should I lay out the cash for actual plans? Is there other
documentation included with the plans that is not printed in Payson's
books?
Can I just scale up 'Tortoise' to build a 'Brick', since Payson has
not included this design in his books?
How long can I expect my boat to last without using epoxy/fiberglass
tape?
Thanks in advance.
Jeff
Finally joined the group after lurking for a few months.
I purchased both of Payson's 'Instant Boat' books shortly after I
came across his site which led me here.
I have been going back and forth as to which boat I want to attempt
to build first. I went from E. Punt to Teal to Windsprint to Surf;
now I am thinking that a Brick would be the easiest and quickest to
get together before winter sets in here in MA. By the way, I want to
use this boat for sailing.
Questions:
How feasible is it to build from the plans in Payson's book(s)?
Or should I lay out the cash for actual plans? Is there other
documentation included with the plans that is not printed in Payson's
books?
Can I just scale up 'Tortoise' to build a 'Brick', since Payson has
not included this design in his books?
How long can I expect my boat to last without using epoxy/fiberglass
tape?
Thanks in advance.
Jeff