Re: Sharpie Pounding Jochem and Micro

Interesting about the Jochems being cured to some extent by a
1.5"x1.5" cutwater, because this is about the size of a Micro keel
protrusion, which goes right to the bow, and that does not seem to
work...or maybe it would be much worse without it? I have wondered
too about a larger one as you mention, but if it was larger, would it
not start affecting the distribution of buoyancy of the boat...ie
make the bow a bit up and "tiddly". A vee'd cutwater might be an
interesting experiment.


--- In bolger@y..., richard@s... wrote:
> A box cutwater, ala PCB&F, is a box protrusion on the front half of
> the bottom of his sharpie hulls. Bottom of protrusion is generaly
> about level with the deepest draft. Top of protrusion is agaist
> bottom of hull. Front comes to a point, or at least a verticle
knife
> edge. Sides flare out sideways to match the rocker in the bottom.
>
> The last point being the genius of the idea. Since the pressure of
> the water on the side of the cutwater and the bottom of the hull is
> the same (because the are both being pushed by the same curve),
there
> is no turbulance caused by water rushing around the hard corners of
> the cutwater.
>
> They can be smaller or larger, and some of them arn't faired to
match
> the rocker. I remember from the Bolger video on the WDJ that the
> small 1-1/2" x 1-1/2" cutwater (almost a skid rail) on the schooner
> changed that "slap slap slap" to a "gurgle gurgle gurgle".
>
> Haven't done the experiment myself though.
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "Miles Bore" <milesbore@h...> wrote:
> > Sounds interesting. I have the same 'slap' problem ith my Aussie
> built
> > Micro. At the risk of appearing to be a complete dill, what's
> a 'cutwater'?
> > Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> >
> > >From: richard@s...
> > >Reply-To: bolger@y...
> > >To: bolger@y...
> > >Subject: [bolger] Re: Sharpie Pounding
> > >Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:27:47 -0000
> > >
> > >Might try a small cutwater. Or two, doen't have to be big, just
> > >enough to change the "slap" into a "gurgle". Idea stolen from W.
> > >Jochems.
> > >
> > >--- In bolger@y..., king@c... wrote:
> > > > My wife and I just spent a weekend on my Escargot, a bolger
> > >inspired
> > > > design by Phil Theil.
> > > >
> > > > Motored back up the Snohomish River and spent a night on a
side
> > > > slough. Very isolated, spending most of our time reading and
> > >trying
> > > > our hand at sketching and painting the scenery. Very
relaxing.
> > >Very
> > > > needed given how much of a teenager my son has become!
> > > >
> > > > We did discover one problem that just about drove us nuts. A
> > >problem
> > > > many Bolger boat owners can relate to I would guess. A
slight
> > >wind
> > > > picked up at about midnight and we were serenaded a good
> portion of
> > > > the night by the sound of waves slapping against the front of
> the
> > > > hull. Notice I said slapping and not lapping. Even small
waves
> > >get
> > > > trapped in that broad expanse of the front and pound like
crazy,
> > > > sounding like... oh... somebody slapping a barrel filled with
> water
> > > > inside an empty 300 foot silo. Got old really fast. The
sound
> > >just
> > > > fills the boat, as loud as a hammer. The breeze wasn't even
> that
> > > > strong, maybe 15 mph. I just spent five days out with my
son,
> and
> > >we
> > > > never had this problem. No wind I guess.
> > > >
> > > > So.... what to do?
> > > >
> > > > Well, I was thinking if I had a second anchor on board,
always a
> > >good
> > > > idea, I could have swung the stern around and held the side
of
> the
> > > > boat, or a corner, to the wind. That way no waves would get
> > >trapped
> > > > in the bow area.
> > > >
> > > > Or, I have been thinking of having one of those instant vinyl
> signs
> > > > made that says NO WAKE and placing them on the front and rear
of
> > >the
> > > > boat any time I park. Why not have them made long enough so
> that
> > > > they hang into the water and act like a wave dampening
device?
> The
> > > > lower edge would be weighted so it sank into the water a
couple
> of
> > > > inches.
> > > >
> > > > Hmm. DOes that vinyl banner idea sound like it would work?
> > > >
> > > > Here is a picture of my boat to give you some idea of the
shape.
> > > >
> > > >http://www.classics.nu/boat/13.html
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > Bryan
> > > > Seattle
> > >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
A box cutwater, ala PCB&F, is a box protrusion on the front half of
the bottom of his sharpie hulls. Bottom of protrusion is generaly
about level with the deepest draft. Top of protrusion is agaist
bottom of hull. Front comes to a point, or at least a verticle knife
edge. Sides flare out sideways to match the rocker in the bottom.

The last point being the genius of the idea. Since the pressure of
the water on the side of the cutwater and the bottom of the hull is
the same (because the are both being pushed by the same curve), there
is no turbulance caused by water rushing around the hard corners of
the cutwater.

They can be smaller or larger, and some of them arn't faired to match
the rocker. I remember from the Bolger video on the WDJ that the
small 1-1/2" x 1-1/2" cutwater (almost a skid rail) on the schooner
changed that "slap slap slap" to a "gurgle gurgle gurgle".

Haven't done the experiment myself though.

--- In bolger@y..., "Miles Bore" <milesbore@h...> wrote:
> Sounds interesting. I have the same 'slap' problem ith my Aussie
built
> Micro. At the risk of appearing to be a complete dill, what's
a 'cutwater'?
> Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
> >From: richard@s...
> >Reply-To: bolger@y...
> >To: bolger@y...
> >Subject: [bolger] Re: Sharpie Pounding
> >Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:27:47 -0000
> >
> >Might try a small cutwater. Or two, doen't have to be big, just
> >enough to change the "slap" into a "gurgle". Idea stolen from W.
> >Jochems.
> >
> >--- In bolger@y..., king@c... wrote:
> > > My wife and I just spent a weekend on my Escargot, a bolger
> >inspired
> > > design by Phil Theil.
> > >
> > > Motored back up the Snohomish River and spent a night on a side
> > > slough. Very isolated, spending most of our time reading and
> >trying
> > > our hand at sketching and painting the scenery. Very relaxing.
> >Very
> > > needed given how much of a teenager my son has become!
> > >
> > > We did discover one problem that just about drove us nuts. A
> >problem
> > > many Bolger boat owners can relate to I would guess. A slight
> >wind
> > > picked up at about midnight and we were serenaded a good
portion of
> > > the night by the sound of waves slapping against the front of
the
> > > hull. Notice I said slapping and not lapping. Even small waves
> >get
> > > trapped in that broad expanse of the front and pound like crazy,
> > > sounding like... oh... somebody slapping a barrel filled with
water
> > > inside an empty 300 foot silo. Got old really fast. The sound
> >just
> > > fills the boat, as loud as a hammer. The breeze wasn't even
that
> > > strong, maybe 15 mph. I just spent five days out with my son,
and
> >we
> > > never had this problem. No wind I guess.
> > >
> > > So.... what to do?
> > >
> > > Well, I was thinking if I had a second anchor on board, always a
> >good
> > > idea, I could have swung the stern around and held the side of
the
> > > boat, or a corner, to the wind. That way no waves would get
> >trapped
> > > in the bow area.
> > >
> > > Or, I have been thinking of having one of those instant vinyl
signs
> > > made that says NO WAKE and placing them on the front and rear of
> >the
> > > boat any time I park. Why not have them made long enough so
that
> > > they hang into the water and act like a wave dampening device?
The
> > > lower edge would be weighted so it sank into the water a couple
of
> > > inches.
> > >
> > > Hmm. DOes that vinyl banner idea sound like it would work?
> > >
> > > Here is a picture of my boat to give you some idea of the shape.
> > >
> > >http://www.classics.nu/boat/13.html
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > Bryan
> > > Seattle
> >
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Sounds interesting. I have the same 'slap' problem ith my Aussie built
Micro. At the risk of appearing to be a complete dill, what's a 'cutwater'?
Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.


>From:richard@...
>Reply-To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [bolger] Re: Sharpie Pounding
>Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:27:47 -0000
>
>Might try a small cutwater. Or two, doen't have to be big, just
>enough to change the "slap" into a "gurgle". Idea stolen from W.
>Jochems.
>
>--- In bolger@y..., king@c... wrote:
> > My wife and I just spent a weekend on my Escargot, a bolger
>inspired
> > design by Phil Theil.
> >
> > Motored back up the Snohomish River and spent a night on a side
> > slough. Very isolated, spending most of our time reading and
>trying
> > our hand at sketching and painting the scenery. Very relaxing.
>Very
> > needed given how much of a teenager my son has become!
> >
> > We did discover one problem that just about drove us nuts. A
>problem
> > many Bolger boat owners can relate to I would guess. A slight
>wind
> > picked up at about midnight and we were serenaded a good portion of
> > the night by the sound of waves slapping against the front of the
> > hull. Notice I said slapping and not lapping. Even small waves
>get
> > trapped in that broad expanse of the front and pound like crazy,
> > sounding like... oh... somebody slapping a barrel filled with water
> > inside an empty 300 foot silo. Got old really fast. The sound
>just
> > fills the boat, as loud as a hammer. The breeze wasn't even that
> > strong, maybe 15 mph. I just spent five days out with my son, and
>we
> > never had this problem. No wind I guess.
> >
> > So.... what to do?
> >
> > Well, I was thinking if I had a second anchor on board, always a
>good
> > idea, I could have swung the stern around and held the side of the
> > boat, or a corner, to the wind. That way no waves would get
>trapped
> > in the bow area.
> >
> > Or, I have been thinking of having one of those instant vinyl signs
> > made that says NO WAKE and placing them on the front and rear of
>the
> > boat any time I park. Why not have them made long enough so that
> > they hang into the water and act like a wave dampening device? The
> > lower edge would be weighted so it sank into the water a couple of
> > inches.
> >
> > Hmm. DOes that vinyl banner idea sound like it would work?
> >
> > Here is a picture of my boat to give you some idea of the shape.
> >
> >http://www.classics.nu/boat/13.html
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Bryan
> > Seattle
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Greetings, It is as you suggest an infuriating problem. I have a boat
designed by a world famous designer with this problem in abundance. No names
but the design rhymes with "wrong psycho". At first I tried installing
soundproofing in the bow area. This was a dismal failure possibly due to the
low pitch of the bumping and slapping. The next attempt involved a hinged
ply panel suspended from the bow with the hinge vertical and pointing
forward. This only worked for the smallest of wind blown chop and not worth
the effort. The bow overhang is the problem. A temporary solution was found
by throwing down most of a bottle of port and sleeping in the cockpit. Next
I had some success. A large plastic garbarge bag was taped in the forward
well and filled with water. This sank the bow so that the bottom corner of
the bow transom was submerged. Then the hinged panel was deployed to deflect
the chop. This did work but the effort required is obviously only for a
desparate man. And I was.
I am at this very moment building a permanent solution. My vessel
"Thylacine" is in my shed lying on her port side with the long keel removed.
I have extended the topsides forward to a vertical stem and am planking a
new rounded forefoot to mate with the longer topsides. The aim is to
eliminate nosediving when running get a good nights sleep and as a bonus
gain 2ft of waterline length.
Regards, Gavin.
----- Original Message -----
From: <king@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 3:52 AM
Subject: [bolger] Sharpie Pounding


> My wife and I just spent a weekend on my Escargot, a bolger inspired
> design by Phil Theil.
>
> Motored back up the Snohomish River and spent a night on a side
> slough. Very isolated, spending most of our time reading and trying
> our hand at sketching and painting the scenery. Very relaxing. Very
> needed given how much of a teenager my son has become!
>
> We did discover one problem that just about drove us nuts. A problem
> many Bolger boat owners can relate to I would guess. A slight wind
> picked up at about midnight and we were serenaded a good portion of
> the night by the sound of waves slapping against the front of the
> hull. Notice I said slapping and not lapping. Even small waves get
> trapped in that broad expanse of the front and pound like crazy,
> sounding like... oh... somebody slapping a barrel filled with water
> inside an empty 300 foot silo. Got old really fast. The sound just
> fills the boat, as loud as a hammer. The breeze wasn't even that
> strong, maybe 15 mph. I just spent five days out with my son, and we
> never had this problem. No wind I guess.
>
> So.... what to do?
>
> Well, I was thinking if I had a second anchor on board, always a good
> idea, I could have swung the stern around and held the side of the
> boat, or a corner, to the wind. That way no waves would get trapped
> in the bow area.
>
> Or, I have been thinking of having one of those instant vinyl signs
> made that says NO WAKE and placing them on the front and rear of the
> boat any time I park. Why not have them made long enough so that
> they hang into the water and act like a wave dampening device? The
> lower edge would be weighted so it sank into the water a couple of
> inches.
>
> Hmm. DOes that vinyl banner idea sound like it would work?
>
> Here is a picture of my boat to give you some idea of the shape.
>
>http://www.classics.nu/boat/13.html
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bryan
> Seattle
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Use plastic screen and it probably won't scrape.

HJ

>
> He has mentioned somewhere that WW I torpedo boats used a
> window screen two or three inches in front of their glass
> windscreens in order to reduce the likelihood of the glass being
> shattered by wave action. Screen might work to reduce sharpie
> slap. I have in mind a loose roll of plastic window screen big
> enough in diameter to reach from the bow to an inch or two
> underwater, and long enough to extend a little beyond the sides
> of the boat and to make a place for light cord lashings to hold it
> in place.
>

>
> This may scrape the bottom paint a little, but what is a good
> night's sleep worth to you?
>
> Vance
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Bryan,

I've searched for info on Phil Theil with no luck. Can you provide
any links to his designs?

Thanks,
Ray McQuin


--- In bolger@y..., king@c... wrote:
> My wife and I just spent a weekend on my Escargot, a bolger
inspired
> design by Phil Theil.
--- In bolger@y..., "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@w...> wrote:
> How about using that innertube you show in one of your first
photos?

Bolger has suggested lashing a folded cushion (or some such
item) under the bows in order to lower the decibel level of the
pounding a sharpie and its crew endure when at anchor.
Members of this list have just fleshed out this idea with
suggestions of beach balls in netting, a semi-inflated air
mattress or an inner tube. These would be especially good for a
wide bow such as Escargo's. But PCB himself has written of a
solution to another problem that might work to solve this one.

He has mentioned somewhere that WW I torpedo boats used a
window screen two or three inches in front of their glass
windscreens in order to reduce the likelihood of the glass being
shattered by wave action. Screen might work to reduce sharpie
slap. I have in mind a loose roll of plastic window screen big
enough in diameter to reach from the bow to an inch or two
underwater, and long enough to extend a little beyond the sides
of the boat and to make a place for light cord lashings to hold it
in place.

An experiment should be cheap enough. Screen recycled from a
damaged windowscreen and a little cord would do it. Anybody
out there with a sharpie want to give it a try?

This may scrape the bottom paint a little, but what is a good
night's sleep worth to you?

Vance
How about using that innertube you show in one of your first photos?

Paul L

> -----Original Message-----
> From:Shorty@...[mailto:Shorty@...]
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 3:09 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Sharpie Pounding
>
>
> I heard about using a pool air mattress ($1.50 from Walmart) across the
> bow. Might have more surface area than the fenders.
>
> Shorty
>
I heard about using a pool air mattress ($1.50 from Walmart) across the
bow. Might have more surface area than the fenders.

Shorty
I have absolutely nothing to offer in the way of suggestions for your
pounding problem, but I take my hat off to your beautifully executed
boat, especially the paint job.

My wife is French, and I could definitely see exploring the canals in
such a neat little boat someday.

Regards,

Matthew Long
Might try a small cutwater. Or two, doen't have to be big, just
enough to change the "slap" into a "gurgle". Idea stolen from W.
Jochems.

--- In bolger@y..., king@c... wrote:
> My wife and I just spent a weekend on my Escargot, a bolger
inspired
> design by Phil Theil.
>
> Motored back up the Snohomish River and spent a night on a side
> slough. Very isolated, spending most of our time reading and
trying
> our hand at sketching and painting the scenery. Very relaxing.
Very
> needed given how much of a teenager my son has become!
>
> We did discover one problem that just about drove us nuts. A
problem
> many Bolger boat owners can relate to I would guess. A slight
wind
> picked up at about midnight and we were serenaded a good portion of
> the night by the sound of waves slapping against the front of the
> hull. Notice I said slapping and not lapping. Even small waves
get
> trapped in that broad expanse of the front and pound like crazy,
> sounding like... oh... somebody slapping a barrel filled with water
> inside an empty 300 foot silo. Got old really fast. The sound
just
> fills the boat, as loud as a hammer. The breeze wasn't even that
> strong, maybe 15 mph. I just spent five days out with my son, and
we
> never had this problem. No wind I guess.
>
> So.... what to do?
>
> Well, I was thinking if I had a second anchor on board, always a
good
> idea, I could have swung the stern around and held the side of the
> boat, or a corner, to the wind. That way no waves would get
trapped
> in the bow area.
>
> Or, I have been thinking of having one of those instant vinyl signs
> made that says NO WAKE and placing them on the front and rear of
the
> boat any time I park. Why not have them made long enough so that
> they hang into the water and act like a wave dampening device? The
> lower edge would be weighted so it sank into the water a couple of
> inches.
>
> Hmm. DOes that vinyl banner idea sound like it would work?
>
> Here is a picture of my boat to give you some idea of the shape.
>
>http://www.classics.nu/boat/13.html
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bryan
> Seattle
The sound just fills the boat, as loud as a hammer.

Hi
Sharpies do pound don't they? I have never tried this solution but I'm
told it works.

Use an 8"dia. x 24" or so fender that can be tied off at each end-you
would probably need 2 for "Escargot" and put them under the front of
the boat like a bib. Really jam them in. I'm not sure if it's the
extra flotation that does it or if the fenders just act as a foil for
the wave action but if I were camping out in my "Hawkeye" it would be
so equiped.

Bob Chamberland
My wife and I just spent a weekend on my Escargot, a bolger inspired
design by Phil Theil.

Motored back up the Snohomish River and spent a night on a side
slough. Very isolated, spending most of our time reading and trying
our hand at sketching and painting the scenery. Very relaxing. Very
needed given how much of a teenager my son has become!

We did discover one problem that just about drove us nuts. A problem
many Bolger boat owners can relate to I would guess. A slight wind
picked up at about midnight and we were serenaded a good portion of
the night by the sound of waves slapping against the front of the
hull. Notice I said slapping and not lapping. Even small waves get
trapped in that broad expanse of the front and pound like crazy,
sounding like... oh... somebody slapping a barrel filled with water
inside an empty 300 foot silo. Got old really fast. The sound just
fills the boat, as loud as a hammer. The breeze wasn't even that
strong, maybe 15 mph. I just spent five days out with my son, and we
never had this problem. No wind I guess.

So.... what to do?

Well, I was thinking if I had a second anchor on board, always a good
idea, I could have swung the stern around and held the side of the
boat, or a corner, to the wind. That way no waves would get trapped
in the bow area.

Or, I have been thinking of having one of those instant vinyl signs
made that says NO WAKE and placing them on the front and rear of the
boat any time I park. Why not have them made long enough so that
they hang into the water and act like a wave dampening device? The
lower edge would be weighted so it sank into the water a couple of
inches.

Hmm. DOes that vinyl banner idea sound like it would work?

Here is a picture of my boat to give you some idea of the shape.

http://www.classics.nu/boat/13.html

Thanks.

Bryan
Seattle