Re: [bolger] Re: DOUBLE EAGLE

Hi mark........... Yeah, we know Rory, who built 'cookie' & subsequently sailed her around the world........ He completed his circumnavigation at the same Wharram meeting we attended, having sailed from the Caribbean........... we didn't get the trophy for 'greatest distance sailed'...... he did!
Big Tiddles & Cookie are the same concept, originating from discussions in SW England in 1990-92 there's one other 'sister-ship' out there someplace......... another Tiki21-derivative called 'Chiquita', built by another mate......... so that's one 32footer & two 21footers.
regards, Dave.

mark hamill <mhamill1@...> wrote:
Hi: The name of the Tiki 21 that sailed around the world was "Cookie"
and the circumnavigation was chronicled in the PCA magazine "Sea
People"

--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "bigtiddles69" <bigtiddles69@...>
wrote:

>
> Hi Brian......... I see this is a pretty old post, but if you're
> still interested, i'm the original owner & co-builder of BIG TIDDLES
> .... she's 32feet, & we lived on her for 12 years or so, covering
> 40,000 miles or so, & 4 Atlantic crossings.......... get in touch,

> you want any more info....... always happy to yarn about boats!
> Cheers... Dave.
>
> --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Vickers" <Brianv@> wrote:
> >
> > The Tiki 21 that circumnavigated was call "Cooking Fat", Cookie

for

> short
> >
> > Big Tiddles is a Tiki 26 (I think)
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <JohnSpoering@>
> > To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 5:19 PM
> > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: DOUBLE EAGLE
> >
> >
> > > Hi All -
> > > Just for those interested - check out Wharram's

PCA

> group
> > >
> > > http://www.pca-
> seapeople.org/pca/index.html
> > >
> > > And yes a Wharram "Tiki 21" has sailed around the
> world. I
> > > believe she was called "BIG TIDDLIES".
> > >
> > > Aloha - Jack

Spoering -

> Ft
> > > Lauderdale
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead

horses

> > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all

you

> like
> > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA,
> > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
>

---------------------------------
Sent from Yahoo! - a smarter inbox.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi: The name of the Tiki 21 that sailed around the world was "Cookie"
and the circumnavigation was chronicled in the PCA magazine "Sea
People"

--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "bigtiddles69" <bigtiddles69@...>
wrote:

>
> Hi Brian......... I see this is a pretty old post, but if you're
> still interested, i'm the original owner & co-builder of BIG TIDDLES
> .... she's 32feet, & we lived on her for 12 years or so, covering
> 40,000 miles or so, & 4 Atlantic crossings.......... get in touch,

> you want any more info....... always happy to yarn about boats!
> Cheers... Dave.
>
> --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Vickers" <Brianv@> wrote:
> >
> > The Tiki 21 that circumnavigated was call "Cooking Fat", Cookie

for

> short
> >
> > Big Tiddles is a Tiki 26 (I think)
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <JohnSpoering@>
> > To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 5:19 PM
> > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: DOUBLE EAGLE
> >
> >
> > > Hi All -
> > > Just for those interested - check out Wharram's

PCA

> group
> > >
> > > http://www.pca-
> seapeople.org/pca/index.html
> > >
> > > And yes a Wharram "Tiki 21" has sailed around the
> world. I
> > > believe she was called "BIG TIDDLIES".
> > >
> > > Aloha - Jack

Spoering -

> Ft
> > > Lauderdale
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead

horses

> > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all

you

> like
> > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA,
> > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Hi Brian......... I see this is a pretty old post, but if you're
still interested, i'm the original owner & co-builder of BIG TIDDLES
.... she's 32feet, & we lived on her for 12 years or so, covering
40,000 miles or so, & 4 Atlantic crossings.......... get in touch, if
you want any more info....... always happy to yarn about boats!
Cheers... Dave.

--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Vickers" <Brianv@...> wrote:
>
> The Tiki 21 that circumnavigated was call "Cooking Fat", Cookie for
short
>
> Big Tiddles is a Tiki 26 (I think)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <JohnSpoering@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 5:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: DOUBLE EAGLE
>
>
> > Hi All -
> > Just for those interested - check out Wharram's PCA
group
> >
> > http://www.pca-
seapeople.org/pca/index.html
> >
> > And yes a Wharram "Tiki 21" has sailed around the
world. I
> > believe she was called "BIG TIDDLIES".
> >
> > Aloha - Jack Spoering -
Ft
> > Lauderdale
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
like
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>

just had a look at the double eagle pics in yahoo groups.

wow! you did an excellent job. hard to believe you did it on your
own, mostly. have you kept track of how many man hours have been
spent, so far?
I like the anchor arrangement very much - looks practical and
reliable. same for the steering arrangement. swans neck throughhulls
are low tech but very good. maybe a removable step/box over the ram
so that people dont trip over it.

i have no doubt that next year will see the launch of a very
practical and able boat. be proud!

hannes

p.s. let us know when its time to book a trip!

Canal wise there are some just west of the Adirondacks
that look too narrow for a canoe, though nicely made
of cut stone all the same. South east of Watertown

______________________________________________________
Send your holiday cheer withhttp://greetings.yahoo.ca

---amoore@...wrote: Many
of the arguements against them are not very valid:

Or current, I would add. This is a dead issue, not on
the drawing board, but Multis are accepted worldwide
for everything from races, and cahrters, to fast
ferries. Now the US MIlitary wants in on the action
as a platform for high speed stealth ships.

Case closed

______________________________________________________
Send your holiday cheer withhttp://greetings.yahoo.ca

Stuart, any multihull will capsize given the right set of
circumstances. In fact any boat will capsize given the right set of
circumstances. The issue is how likely are you to encounter those
circumstance and what can you do about. In many cases the problem
with multihulls is ignorance and if it is not ignorance it is a insane
desire for speed. If you driver multihulls hard, eventually you will
flip one. Now every one cries about the fact that when a multihull is
flipped you can't right it. Well with the exception of a few small
ones, monohulls onced flipped in the ocean (usually by a wave) come up
very fast, because of the lead ballast and usually with out masts and
half there deck. So the question should be do you want to be
dismasted with half you deck ripped away and right side up or water
tight usually with a emergency hatch under a wing and upside down.

I'm not a real finatic about multihulls but I have sailed enough good
and bad boats from both catagories to realize each as its points. Many
of the arguements against them are not very valid.

Andy Moore
Nova Scotia
Canada

Good, constructive comment.

Stuart Crawford,
New Zealand.

on 4/12/01 1:52 PM,amoore@...atamoore@...wrote:

> Stuart, any multihull will capsize given the right set of
> circumstances. In fact any boat will capsize given the right set of
> circumstances. The issue is how likely are you to encounter those
> circumstance and what can you do about. In many cases the problem
> with multihulls is ignorance and if it is not ignorance it is a insane
> desire for speed. If you driver multihulls hard, eventually you will
> flip one. Now every one cries about the fact that when a multihull is
> flipped you can't right it. Well with the exception of a few small
> ones, monohulls onced flipped in the ocean (usually by a wave) come up
> very fast, because of the lead ballast and usually with out masts and
> half there deck. So the question should be do you want to be
> dismasted with half you deck ripped away and right side up or water
> tight usually with a emergency hatch under a wing and upside down.
>
> I'm not a real finatic about multihulls but I have sailed enough good
> and bad boats from both catagories to realize each as its points. Many
> of the arguements against them are not very valid.
>
>
> Andy Moore
> Nova Scotia
> Canada
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

As a child in the late seventies, I lived on a 34ft Wharram catamaran. I
remember seeing a smaller Wharram on Waiheke island that had sailed over
from another country with no problems. That boat somehow managed to capsize
off Waiheke, which was capable of some rough weather, but nothing like blue
water rough weather. Also the Wharram that my family owned was capsized in
recent years comming out of Wellington harbour, into Cook straight, by the
owners of the time.

I spent about six months living on our Wharram and have spent considerable
time on bigger ones and found them very sea worthy, however the evidence
shows they do capsize from time to time, how, I'm not so sure.

Stuart Crawford,
New Zealand.

on 4/12/01 6:19 AM,JohnSpoering@...atJohnSpoering@...wrote:

> Hi All -
> Just for those interested - check out Wharram's PCA group
>
>http://www.pca-seapeople.org/pca/index.html
>
> And yes a Wharram "Tiki 21" has sailed around the world. I
> believe she was called "BIG TIDDLIES".
>
> Aloha - Jack Spoering - Ft
> Lauderdale
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

British narrowboats have a maximum beam of 6 ft., 10in. That's
because the hand-cranked locks are a standard 7 ft. wide. There are
something over 1,000 miles of maintained and restored canals in the
U.K. (mostly England), dating from the industrial revolution. For
those interested, here are a couple links to explore:

http://www.british-waterways.org/
http://www.canaljunction.com/main.htm#cjrtn

From about station 8 aft, the revised Bolger Dakota as seen in the
recent cartoon is very similar to one of the shorter narrowboats.
(They go up to nearly 70 ft. long, mostly with the interior elements
repeated to accommodate more passengers.) The main diference is in
operating position; based on working boats, probably 99% of
narrowboats are tiller-steered from a short aft deck.

Also, steel is the standard construction material for traditional-
style narrowboats. However, fibreglass is most often used for canal
cruisers which, as the name suggests, are 'modern' cabin cruisers
designed to fit into the canals (although not always the narrow
canals).

Sorry for the miscellaneous information; just like to spread
knowledge of inland waterways in the U.K. because they are such a
wonderful experience. - John Ewing

--- In bolger@y..., timothy@e... wrote:
> --- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> > I have the plans for a CC29. It's width is small enough to fit
all
> canals in the USA and Canada with the exception of north of
Detroit.
> At least according to the three cruising guides I have the great
> circle route. There is as much or more living space CC29 as any 36
> footer. At least 1/2 of it is full headroom, with a large secure
> center cockpit with it's wrap around sides averaging 45 inches tall.
> >
> > The boat a lot of common sense building technics and is designed
for
> plywood by having dimensions that use ply sheets with little waste.
> >
> > I have ordered my 40 sheets of Okume, as soon as it shows up, I
will
> start building my CC29 for our planned "Circle Route" cruise.
>
> Hey! Well, good luck with the build, Jeff.
>
> My wife and I want to be able to do canal motoring in the UK, in
which
> we would need the narrow, 10' width of the boat we are considering.
> English NarrowBoats are even narrower than that, hence the name. :)
> Plus we want to be able to go up and down whatever rivers we come
> across, if we feel like it or have a need to.
>
> Also, we want to be able to get into very tight spots, side or end-
to
> in narrow mud and shoal berths, etc. We think that a narrow,
shallow
> draft cruiser is just the ticket.
>
> But had we not needed this sort of flexibility of form factor, we
> probably would have gone with the CC29 as well.
>
> > I am just putting the finishing touches on a Bolger Nymph to be
used
> as a dinghy on the CC29.
>
> Do you have pictures?
>
> --T

If I can't find someone to take it, I'm going to cut it up to get the glass coated plywood salvaged for the new boat. There are a lot of places on the new boat that can use the 3/8" glassed plywood. I figure I can salvage several hundred dollars from the 1/2 Tennessee unless someone made me a good offer and can come get it soon otherwise, I'll need the space.

Storage would be too expensive. Better to cut her up and re-cycle than let it eat up dollars and rot to pieces in storage.

Jeff

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What did you do with your 1/2 finished Tennessee?

Kentucky Tom

No free man shall ever be de-barred the use of arms. The strongest reason
for the people to retain their right to keep and bear arms is as a last
resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government. - Thomas
Jefferson

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 2:10 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Cats and things (was Re: DOUBLE EAGLE)

> I hope you can make the dream come true. If your going on short trips say
up to a month, the Dakota, Tennessee, etc would be ideal for poking around
shallows. I got half way through building my Tennessee when the wife and I
decided that we where going about it all wrong. We got permission for a
long leave of absence from work so we needed an entirely different boat.
But if your adventurous and close to each other, the Dakota or Tennessee
offer a lot of boat for short cruises and very inexpensive to build.
>
> No pictures on the nymph yet. The plans on the CC29 showed a simple davit
system to support up to 75 lbs for a dinghy. I poured over all my books
and decided I had enough materials around to put a Nymph together. When it
warms up in the spring, we'll try it with our 3hp outboard and with oars to
see if it will work. I'll try and get some posted soon though I don't have
any of the process of building. I literally cut out and assembled it in one
day and got all carried away working and forgot about pictures. After I'm
done glassing and painting I'll post some pictures. No sailing version was
built. Rowing and small motor only.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

The Tiki 21 that circumnavigated was call "Cooking Fat", Cookie for short

Big Tiddles is a Tiki 26 (I think)

----- Original Message -----
From: <JohnSpoering@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 5:19 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: DOUBLE EAGLE

> Hi All -
> Just for those interested - check out Wharram's PCA group
>
>http://www.pca-seapeople.org/pca/index.html
>
> And yes a Wharram "Tiki 21" has sailed around the world. I
> believe she was called "BIG TIDDLIES".
>
> Aloha - Jack Spoering - Ft
> Lauderdale
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

I hope you can make the dream come true. If your going on short trips say up to a month, the Dakota, Tennessee, etc would be ideal for poking around shallows. I got half way through building my Tennessee when the wife and I decided that we where going about it all wrong. We got permission for a long leave of absence from work so we needed an entirely different boat. But if your adventurous and close to each other, the Dakota or Tennessee offer a lot of boat for short cruises and very inexpensive to build.

No pictures on the nymph yet. The plans on the CC29 showed a simple davit system to support up to 75 lbs for a dinghy. I poured over all my books and decided I had enough materials around to put a Nymph together. When it warms up in the spring, we'll try it with our 3hp outboard and with oars to see if it will work. I'll try and get some posted soon though I don't have any of the process of building. I literally cut out and assembled it in one day and got all carried away working and forgot about pictures. After I'm done glassing and painting I'll post some pictures. No sailing version was built. Rowing and small motor only.

Jeff

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In bolger@y..., "Jeff Blunck" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:

> I have the plans for a CC29. It's width is small enough to fit all

canals in the USA and Canada with the exception of north of Detroit.
At least according to the three cruising guides I have the great
circle route. There is as much or more living space CC29 as any 36
footer. At least 1/2 of it is full headroom, with a large secure
center cockpit with it's wrap around sides averaging 45 inches tall.

>
> The boat a lot of common sense building technics and is designed for

plywood by having dimensions that use ply sheets with little waste.

>
> I have ordered my 40 sheets of Okume, as soon as it shows up, I will

start building my CC29 for our planned "Circle Route" cruise.

Hey! Well, good luck with the build, Jeff.

My wife and I want to be able to do canal motoring in the UK, in which
we would need the narrow, 10' width of the boat we are considering.
English NarrowBoats are even narrower than that, hence the name. :)
Plus we want to be able to go up and down whatever rivers we come
across, if we feel like it or have a need to.

Also, we want to be able to get into very tight spots, side or end-to
in narrow mud and shoal berths, etc. We think that a narrow, shallow
draft cruiser is just the ticket.

But had we not needed this sort of flexibility of form factor, we
probably would have gone with the CC29 as well.

> I am just putting the finishing touches on a Bolger Nymph to be used

as a dinghy on the CC29.

Do you have pictures?

--T

Parkinsons perhaps.....................

They are certainly proven. My only concern with the
hulls is their radical lack of efficiency, in two
senses carrying ability, and most important, drag. As
regards the first, in theory your are supposed to
travel light, but that isn't always possible. You
don't get to chose when the storm will hit, you could
be out sailing off a lee shore, with a few extra
people aboard, a situation shown in the Wharram
catalalogue (well I am not sure about the wind). They
don't pick up bouyance quickly, which some designs
do). The drag thing is a bigger issue for me. The 60
deg hull has the worst drag of any hull used on a
multihull that I modeled (about 10 of the more popular
designs), though there aren't any chines, which is a
bonus over some hulls, probably not a sufficient one.
The only simmilarly "bad" hulls were on a Bolger that
had 120 deg hulls, an earlier charter design. Also as
far as stability, his cats are still narrow. One of
his earlier safety obssesions was no foils, now he has
them, while a lot of the boats he doesn't like have
raiseble dagger boards. His boats are certainly more
surviveable than the early roomarans, with their low
decks and high houses, poor aerodynamics etc...
Wither they are better than modern multihulls is hard
to say, I guess time will tell.

 
AFA Wharram's designs being questionable, I was
considering that they 
are pretty damn stable platforms in a blow, and if you
have a sea 
anchor out in a bad storm, you could survive almost
anything in one of 
them, given the slim hulls. 
 

______________________________________________________
Send your holiday cheer withhttp://greetings.yahoo.ca

Hi All -
Just for those interested - check out Wharram's PCA group

http://www.pca-seapeople.org/pca/index.html

And yes a Wharram "Tiki 21" has sailed around the world. I
believe she was called "BIG TIDDLIES".

Aloha - Jack Spoering - Ft
Lauderdale

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have the plans for a CC29. It's width is small enough to fit all canals in the USA and Canada with the exception of north of Detroit. At least according to the three cruising guides I have the great circle route. There is as much or more living space CC29 as any 36 footer. At least 1/2 of it is full headroom, with a large secure center cockpit with it's wrap around sides averaging 45 inches tall.

The boat a lot of common sense building technics and is designed for plywood by having dimensions that use ply sheets with little waste.

I have ordered my 40 sheets of Okume, as soon as it shows up, I will start building my CC29 for our planned "Circle Route" cruise.

I am just putting the finishing touches on a Bolger Nymph to be used as a dinghy on the CC29.

Jeff

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You might want to look at what Thomas Firth Jones is doing also. www.jonesboats.com, Clyde

timothy@...wrote:

> I don't think PB&F has made such a design, so you would have to
> commission him to do it. Send them a letter and ask. Or a FAX.
> They're very good about replying to questions.
>
> You could also do a JARCAT, which is a plywood cruiser designed by an
> Aussie:
>
>http://members.ozemail.com.au/~rhturner/cc29.html
>
> Looks quite nice, and well proven design as well. A number have been
> built. This fellow seems to have a similiar sort of 'practical over
> silliness' design approach as does Phil.
>
> The CC29, by the way, has plenty of accomadation. I was, in fact,
> considering this design very seriously until we decided on a Bolger
> monohull design that fit our needs much better, wanting to do canal
> and river cruising as well as open ocean, and to be able to 'med
> moor' if we needed to. A cat would be too wide for much of that.
>
> --- In bolger@y..., pvanderw@o... wrote:
> >
> > Sort of a Double Hawk? I have not heard of one. Catamarans do not
> > scale as well as monohulls, and 30' is pretty small for a cat to
> have
> > much accomodation.
> >
> > PHV
> > --- In bolger@y..., JohnSpoering@a... wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi All -
> > > If you love and understand Bolger's designs you love
> > his Double
> > > Eagle. But 40' is an awful lot of boat to build for a couple
> > interested in
> > > coastal cruising up and down the east coast and Gulf of Mexico.
> > Does anyone
> > > know - has there been any effort done yet to do a Double Eagle in
> > the 28' to
> > > 30' range ?
> > >
> > > Aloha - Jack Spoering - Ft Lauderdale,
> Fl
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--- In bolger@y..., thomas dalzell <proaconstrictor@y...> wrote:

> You are absolutely right about the size. One friend
> of mine had a 35+ footer than was a large platform,
> but didn't really have much accomodations to speak of,
> not really nice places to live. Another friend built
> a 23 footer, and it had less useable space than the
> Light Dory. Well maybe not, though both dories and 23'
> wharrams have crossed oceans.

Thats what I was considering, since I got the sense from the original
poster that he was concerned about accomodation and comfort, and not
as much about speed. And.. lots of things have crossed oceans.. heh. I
wouldn't want to have been in all of them though. :)

> I know one thing, a boat capable of speed is a great
> thing. The KHSD 30' tri is a real speed machine you
> can scare the $%%& out of windsurfers, by overtaking
> them in a stiff breeze. That's not a bad deal, since
> the more time you spend on a crossing the more time
> the weather has to catch you.

Woo. A tri that can outsail windsurfers. :) I like that.

I still like Ross Turner's designs though. Cheap, sizeable, and
reasonably proven. Easy to build. And bonus for the fact that he is a
guy who loves boats and is not affecting any sort of philosophical
stance. Read his bullet list about 'Modern' cats. You'll get a
chuckle. He's basically a sailor guy who decided to do it himself, and
did it pretty well.

AFA Wharram's designs being questionable, I was considering that they
are pretty damn stable platforms in a blow, and if you have a sea
anchor out in a bad storm, you could survive almost anything in one of
them, given the slim hulls.

But, then again, I'd rather be at my next port, or not have gone out
to begin with. ;) And also, given a good sea anchor, you could ride
out almost any storm in almost any conditions with almost any
reasonably designed cat. They just won't all be as comfortable as a
slim, deep V hulled cat in those conditions.

But I think Phil has something there with the cutwaters on the Double
Eagle. With those, if they eliminate most of the pounding problems
with flat bottomed cats, you could have a really nice place to go from
for an ocean going cat, design wise. The Double Eagle is NOT an ocean
going cat though.. Phil said that himself. It was designed for
expeditionary charter use in glacier bay (semi sheltered waters) and
will probably pound mercilessly in high seas.

Perhaps a slightly tapered hull, still flat bottomed... higher bridge
deck clearance... 1.5 length/beam... hmm.

If I wanted one, I think I'd send Phil a check though, rather than
design it myself. :)

--T

You are absolutely right about the size. One friend
of mine had a 35+ footer than was a large platform,
but didn't really have much accomodations to speak of,
not really nice places to live. Another friend built
a 23 footer, and it had less useable space than the
Light Dory. Well maybe not, though both dories and 23'
wharrams have crossed oceans.

The Tiki series are smaller still,and you will be
spending a lot of time sailing, since they aren't fast
(in comparison to other multis). I am not sure how
seaworthy they really are, if you were to compare them
to simmilarly spartan, but faster multis, and if you
outfitted both with Wharram mini rigs, that don't flip
boats much.

I know one thing, a boat capable of speed is a great
thing. The KHSD 30' tri is a real speed machine you
can scare the $%%& out of windsurfers, by overtaking
them in a stiff breeze. That's not a bad deal, since
the more time you spend on a crossing the more time
the weather has to catch you.

If you want to be 
-sailing- alot of the time, then a Wharram makes more
sense. 
 
It's all up to the owner, really. Wharram's cats are
technically 
better as oceangoing vessels

_______________________________________________________
Build your own website in minutes and for free athttp://ca.geocities.com

I have plans for the Wharram 30 footer, and that is a
case of not having much accomodation, unless you count
lawn chairs on the deck. In fairness there is pod
that can be added to the bridgedeck, bet even then
there isn't much.

The biggest thing about Wharram cats is that he has
stuck like crazy to an outmoded design. His hulls
have the lowest efficiency that you can possibly
achieve without moving to his racing hulls, which are
worse. A strange state of affairs for an ARYS long
time member.

The main surviving justification is that he felt they
were better in storms, which is possible, he had a
particular bugaboo about adding keels, unitl he did.
Now I am not sure where we stand.

His Aesthetics, and detailing are just brilliant. A
great designer in the main.

If you want a designer whose designs literaly and
figuratively work back and forth between those of
Wharram and Bolger, Look at Tom Jones. He has written
a bunch of books, and he has crossed the ocean several
times in Wharrams, and his own designs. He has a low
cost approach also.

>

<tt>
You mite look at: 
www,wharram.com 
Wharram is sort of the Bolger of multyhulls. The site
is worth looking at and it does have cats in all
lengths. 
John 
 

_______________________________________________________
Build your own website in minutes and for free athttp://ca.geocities.com

You can get a lot of stuff on a 30' catamaran.
Admittedly at that size, you can have something
Stilletoish, with hardly the room of Birdwatcher. On
the other hand, you can easily get a displacement of
9000#, and with a bridge-deck saloon have a real
palace: two double births, a toilette, galley, and a
20x22' rumpus room.

_______________________________________________________
Build your own website in minutes and for free athttp://ca.geocities.com

--- In bolger@y..., amoore@h... wrote:

> John, I could not agree more. I am interested in Anhinga,

Birdwatcher

> and some of Jim Michalak's designs. James Wharram designs have also
> caught my attention; they seem easy to build, stable and beachable.
> I'm interested in beach cruising and the Tiki designs look good for
> this, they have enough cabin to store some equipment safe and dry

and

> provide a emergency place for a couple of people to get out of the
> weather.

I like Wharram's cats very much, but I think his prices are a bit
high.

Also, the volume of space on his cats is negligable, compared to the
cc29 designed by Ross Turner.

I know.. I know. Bridge deck pounding.. too much weight... A Wharram
is smoother in the open ocean.. etc. Its all a compromise. If you want
to be in one place for 80% of your time, the other 20% can be planned
well enough to avoid any shortcomings in your vessel, and those
situations you cannot avoid, well you can comfort yourself on your
bruises in your full saloon with a tall pitcher of lemonade from your
refrigerator when you reach port. Then you can fill your SCUBA tanks
with your dive compressor and go for a wall dive. If you want to be
-sailing- alot of the time, then a Wharram makes more sense.

It's all up to the owner, really. Wharram's cats are technically
better as oceangoing vessels, but I wouldn't want a small one for
extended journeying, as the basic plans for the smaller ones do not
include any provision for a deck cabin, etc. Especially for a family
of four. And forGET about cold water sailing in a small Wharram (in my
humble opinion).

So, if cost and space are two concerns, and you want to spend the
$1000+ price difference in plans on equipment and plywood, then I
would go with a smaller designer with a proven design like Ross.

>
> Anyone interested in home built multhulls should also consider the
> Woods Designshttp://www.sailingcatamarans.com/a little more
> complicated to build but still nice boats.

Again, Woods designs are very nice, but are very pricey. If I wanted
to build a 30' cat for voyaging, and I wanted to keep the costs down,
I would be looking at smaller designers who have had half a dozen or
so built. Chances are they have designed the thing for themselves as
well, and so likely did not skimp on design time and care. I realize
that the 1-1.5k difference in price may not -seem- like much, but when
you think about it, thats the cost of all the bulkheads or more in a
30 footer.

>
> Multihull designers have been doing the home built thing for years

> I'm sure there are others. Multihulls like the sharpies and flaties
> were not generally accepted as safe pleasure boats as a result the
> designers and followers had to build thier own.
>
> This could be the start of new group, although I believe these small
> home built multihulls meet the spirit of this group.

There already is one.. 'multihull_boatbuilder' right here on yahoo.
They've talked about the Double Eagle as well. A search will bring up
a few articles. I'd bet you could generate a bit of interest about a
'flattie' multihull. Personally, I think a 'Bolgeresque' multihull
would be primo as a Trimaran with wave cutters built into the bows of
the main hull and amas. Man, a square bottom boat with square bottom
amas would FLY downwind. ;)

And, as always, Fair Winds and good luck in all endeavors. There is no
one "right boat" for all conditions. Just the one we end up with that
has the most check marks in the 'I Would Like' column.

--T

I think these boats

http://www.prcn.org/kismet/

are right up there for homebuild, ply multihulls designs.

PHV

--- In bolger@y..., amoore@h... wrote:
> --- In bolger@y..., "John P Barker" <j.barker2@v...> wrote:
> > You mite look at:
> > www,wharram.com
> > Wharram is sort of the Bolger of multyhulls. The site is worth
> looking at and it does have cats in all lengths.
> > John
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <timothy@e...>
> > To: <bolger@y...>
> > Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 8:08 PM
> > Subject: [bolger] Re: DOUBLE EAGLE
> >
>
> John, I could not agree more. I am interested in Anhinga,
Birdwatcher
> and some of Jim Michalak's designs. James Wharram designs have also
> caught my attention; they seem easy to build, stable and beachable.
> I'm interested in beach cruising and the Tiki designs look good for
> this, they have enough cabin to store some equipment safe and dry
and
> provide a emergency place for a couple of people to get out of the
> weather.
>
> Anyone interested in home built multhulls should also consider the
> Woods Designshttp://www.sailingcatamarans.com/a little more
> complicated to build but still nice boats.
>
> Multihull designers have been doing the home built thing for years
so
> I'm sure there are others. Multihulls like the sharpies and flaties
> were not generally accepted as safe pleasure boats as a result the
> designers and followers had to build thier own.
>
> This could be the start of new group, although I believe these small
> home built multihulls meet the spirit of this group.
>
> Andy

--- In bolger@y..., "John P Barker" <j.barker2@v...> wrote:

> You mite look at:
> www,wharram.com
> Wharram is sort of the Bolger of multyhulls. The site is worth

looking at and it does have cats in all lengths.

> John
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <timothy@e...>
> To: <bolger@y...>
> Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 8:08 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: DOUBLE EAGLE
>

John, I could not agree more. I am interested in Anhinga, Birdwatcher
and some of Jim Michalak's designs. James Wharram designs have also
caught my attention; they seem easy to build, stable and beachable.
I'm interested in beach cruising and the Tiki designs look good for
this, they have enough cabin to store some equipment safe and dry and
provide a emergency place for a couple of people to get out of the
weather.

Anyone interested in home built multhulls should also consider the
Woods Designshttp://www.sailingcatamarans.com/a little more
complicated to build but still nice boats.

Multihull designers have been doing the home built thing for years so
I'm sure there are others. Multihulls like the sharpies and flaties
were not generally accepted as safe pleasure boats as a result the
designers and followers had to build thier own.

This could be the start of new group, although I believe these small
home built multihulls meet the spirit of this group.

Andy

You mite look at:
www,wharram.com
Wharram is sort of the Bolger of multyhulls. The site is worth looking at and it does have cats in all lengths.
John

----- Original Message -----
From: <timothy@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 8:08 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: DOUBLE EAGLE

> I don't think PB&F has made such a design, so you would have to
> commission him to do it. Send them a letter and ask. Or a FAX.
> They're very good about replying to questions.
>
> You could also do a JARCAT, which is a plywood cruiser designed by an
> Aussie:
>
>http://members.ozemail.com.au/~rhturner/cc29.html
>
> Looks quite nice, and well proven design as well. A number have been
> built. This fellow seems to have a similiar sort of 'practical over
> silliness' design approach as does Phil.
>
> The CC29, by the way, has plenty of accomadation. I was, in fact,
> considering this design very seriously until we decided on a Bolger
> monohull design that fit our needs much better, wanting to do canal
> and river cruising as well as open ocean, and to be able to 'med
> moor' if we needed to. A cat would be too wide for much of that.
>
> --- In bolger@y..., pvanderw@o... wrote:
> >
> > Sort of a Double Hawk? I have not heard of one. Catamarans do not
> > scale as well as monohulls, and 30' is pretty small for a cat to
> have
> > much accomodation.
> >
> > PHV
> > --- In bolger@y..., JohnSpoering@a... wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi All -
> > > If you love and understand Bolger's designs you love
> > his Double
> > > Eagle. But 40' is an awful lot of boat to build for a couple
> > interested in
> > > coastal cruising up and down the east coast and Gulf of Mexico.
> > Does anyone
> > > know - has there been any effort done yet to do a Double Eagle in
> > the 28' to
> > > 30' range ?
> > >
> > > Aloha - Jack Spoering - Ft Lauderdale,
> Fl
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't think PB&F has made such a design, so you would have to
commission him to do it. Send them a letter and ask. Or a FAX.
They're very good about replying to questions.

You could also do a JARCAT, which is a plywood cruiser designed by an
Aussie:

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~rhturner/cc29.html

Looks quite nice, and well proven design as well. A number have been
built. This fellow seems to have a similiar sort of 'practical over
silliness' design approach as does Phil.

The CC29, by the way, has plenty of accomadation. I was, in fact,
considering this design very seriously until we decided on a Bolger
monohull design that fit our needs much better, wanting to do canal
and river cruising as well as open ocean, and to be able to 'med
moor' if we needed to. A cat would be too wide for much of that.

--- In bolger@y..., pvanderw@o... wrote:
>
> Sort of a Double Hawk? I have not heard of one. Catamarans do not
> scale as well as monohulls, and 30' is pretty small for a cat to
have
> much accomodation.
>
> PHV
> --- In bolger@y..., JohnSpoering@a... wrote:
> >
> > Hi All -
> > If you love and understand Bolger's designs you love
> his Double
> > Eagle. But 40' is an awful lot of boat to build for a couple
> interested in
> > coastal cruising up and down the east coast and Gulf of Mexico.
> Does anyone
> > know - has there been any effort done yet to do a Double Eagle in
> the 28' to
> > 30' range ?
> >
> > Aloha - Jack Spoering - Ft Lauderdale,
Fl
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sort of a Double Hawk? I have not heard of one. Catamarans do not
scale as well as monohulls, and 30' is pretty small for a cat to have
much accomodation.

PHV

--- In bolger@y..., JohnSpoering@a... wrote:
>
> Hi All -
> If you love and understand Bolger's designs you love
his Double
> Eagle. But 40' is an awful lot of boat to build for a couple
interested in
> coastal cruising up and down the east coast and Gulf of Mexico.
Does anyone
> know - has there been any effort done yet to do a Double Eagle in
the 28' to
> 30' range ?
>
> Aloha - Jack Spoering - Ft Lauderdale, Fl
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi All -
If you love and understand Bolger's designs you love his Double
Eagle. But 40' is an awful lot of boat to build for a couple interested in
coastal cruising up and down the east coast and Gulf of Mexico. Does anyone
know - has there been any effort done yet to do a Double Eagle in the 28' to
30' range ?

Aloha - Jack Spoering - Ft Lauderdale, Fl

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In bolger@y..., JohnSpoering@a... wrote:

> Hi All -
> Is any one out there familiar with PB&F's Double Eagle
> Catamaran design? I know she doesn't look anything like a
> $350,000.00 French cat but this 40' cruising cat is the one for

me.

> It has everything I could want for family cruising and it is

amazing

> the way PB has put it together.
> What I want to know is "Has anyone got one sailing yet", I
> know the design is reasonably new and one (the original) was being
> built in Alaska, has it been launched? His web site is great but
> hasn't been updated in the last few months -
>
> http:www.thegreatsea.homestead.com/
>
> Another is being built in Florida - I believe around Palm
> Beach (sorry I don't remember the builders name but we met 10 years
> ago at my home in Sunrise ,Florida when I had a BBQ for Wharram
> Catamaran builders. I would love a chance to see one building or
> afloat.
> Is there a PB&F web site where one can order plans or study
> plans?
> Aloha - Jack Spoering - Ft Lauderdale, Fl

I have recently updated my website with some photos of the tarp
structure built to cover the boat and moving the second hull. The
boatshed is 24' X 44' and covered with grey poly tarps. The second
hull is done and both hulls are lined up. In about a month I will be
able to work full time on the boat again and hope to get the
bridgedeck done this winter. I have been waiting to get some revised
plans from Phil Bolger showing the increase in beam from 16' to 20'.
Just lately I have been building the rudders, centerboard and some
plywood tanks. I would be interested in any information on the Double
Eagle being built in Florida.

Plans for Double Eagle can be ordered from:

Phil Bolger and Friends
P. O. Box 1209
Gloucester, MA
01930

Double Eagle website:

http://thegreatsea.homestead.com

fritz koschmann

Hi All -
Is any one out there familiar with PB&F's Double Eagle
Catamaran design? I know she doesn't look anything like a
$350,000.00 French cat but this 40' cruising cat is the one for me.
It has everything I could want for family cruising and it is amazing
the way PB has put it together.
What I want to know is "Has anyone got one sailing yet", I
know the design is reasonably new and one (the original) was being
built in Alaska, has it been launched? His web site is great but
hasn't been updated in the last few months -

http:www.thegreatsea.homestead.com/

Another is being built in Florida - I believe around Palm
Beach (sorry I don't remember the builders name but we met 10 years
ago at my home in Sunrise ,Florida when I had a BBQ for Wharram
Catamaran builders. I would love a chance to see one building or
afloat.
Is there a PB&F web site where one can order plans or study
plans?
Aloha - Jack Spoering - Ft Lauderdale, Fl