Re: wanted to buy - water ballast
I don't know if you guys have covered this, but the water ballast
system I like is the one used in the Gougeon 32, and possibly Ollie
which is also water ballasted. They mounted two of those little
metal trap door dingy baillers in each hull (In a mono, that would be
two mounted in each tank, or in a martha jane type deal you could
just use a pair. They open out into the water under the boat in such
a way that one faces for, and one aft. There are three cords (if the
baillers are out of reach) one to each bailler to flip either open,
and one that loops through both so that when it is pulled on either
or both, if open, will snap shut. When either motoring forward, or
while sailling, you flip the forward facing one down. Water is
forced into the tank, like opening a hose. Close it when you have the
ballast you want. When you want to drop the ballast, just open the
aft facing one, and the water is vaccumed out. Very simple, and only
a few moving parts. The only downside is that the baillers are
expensive. They would also need to be mounte in the lowest point of
the hull/tank.
system I like is the one used in the Gougeon 32, and possibly Ollie
which is also water ballasted. They mounted two of those little
metal trap door dingy baillers in each hull (In a mono, that would be
two mounted in each tank, or in a martha jane type deal you could
just use a pair. They open out into the water under the boat in such
a way that one faces for, and one aft. There are three cords (if the
baillers are out of reach) one to each bailler to flip either open,
and one that loops through both so that when it is pulled on either
or both, if open, will snap shut. When either motoring forward, or
while sailling, you flip the forward facing one down. Water is
forced into the tank, like opening a hose. Close it when you have the
ballast you want. When you want to drop the ballast, just open the
aft facing one, and the water is vaccumed out. Very simple, and only
a few moving parts. The only downside is that the baillers are
expensive. They would also need to be mounte in the lowest point of
the hull/tank.
Maybe you were just being funny, but just in case you meant to ask
about water ballast systems or equipment: I think from what I've
seen, most people "roll their own." Designers tend to design the
water ballast in, so that the tanks become part of the structure.
Where I have heard of people adding water ballast after the fact, it
was mostly by using plastic tanks. Plumbing, etc is done with
standard plumbing and pumps, and I don't know of any that is being
sold as water ballast equipment, except as part of whole boat design.
about water ballast systems or equipment: I think from what I've
seen, most people "roll their own." Designers tend to design the
water ballast in, so that the tanks become part of the structure.
Where I have heard of people adding water ballast after the fact, it
was mostly by using plastic tanks. Plumbing, etc is done with
standard plumbing and pumps, and I don't know of any that is being
sold as water ballast equipment, except as part of whole boat design.
--- In bolger@y..., mkstocks@b... wrote:
> Hi -
>
> I cannot find a supplier of water ballast in any of my catalogs.
> Does anyone have some water ballast they would be willing to sell
me?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Mike
> I saw a guy do that to a wheel barrow tire using starting fluid.It
> had 80lbs of pressure in it. I wouldn't recommend using thismethod
> to empty a ballast tank.At the turn of the 1900's there were so-called Dynamite Guns. They
were actually compressed air cannons. A bit of dynamite was burned
in a tank and the resulting compressed air propelled the projectile.
The largest were 15". They could throw a 500 pound projectile 1.5
miles! Dan
I saw a guy do that to a wheel barrow tire using starting fluid. It
had 80lbs of pressure in it. I wouldn't recommend using this method
to empty a ballast tank.
Roger S
had 80lbs of pressure in it. I wouldn't recommend using this method
to empty a ballast tank.
Roger S
--- In bolger@y..., "Harry W. James" <welshman@p...> wrote:
>
> Along this line, while talking with my neighbor last night, he
> described how to reseat the bead on an ATV when it has broken the
bead
> on those big tires when you are a looong way back from the road.
You
> squirt in a little lighter fluid, let the fumes build and the throw
a
> match at it. The resulting explosion resets the bead.
>
> HJ
>
>
> pvanderw@o... wrote:
> >
> > Now, if you used a little propane and a little oxygen and a little
> > spark, you might be able to get the ballast overboard in a hurry!
> >
> > PHV
> >
Along this line, while talking with my neighbor last night, he
described how to reseat the bead on an ATV when it has broken the bead
on those big tires when you are a looong way back from the road. You
squirt in a little lighter fluid, let the fumes build and the throw a
match at it. The resulting explosion resets the bead.
HJ
pvanderw@...wrote:
described how to reseat the bead on an ATV when it has broken the bead
on those big tires when you are a looong way back from the road. You
squirt in a little lighter fluid, let the fumes build and the throw a
match at it. The resulting explosion resets the bead.
HJ
pvanderw@...wrote:
>
> Now, if you used a little propane and a little oxygen and a little
> spark, you might be able to get the ballast overboard in a hurry!
>
> PHV
>
What about a CO2 tank from a tig welding supplier.. with a regulator to set pressure at something
like like 30 psi. those really small tanks hold like 20 cubic feet in less than one cubic foot (1600
psi). the bigger tanks hold a lot more. a fill is like $0.25 a cubic foot....
sorry if i missed a key point, i don't read all the messages,
Richard
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 14:31:37 -0000
From:richard@...
Subject: Re: wanted to buy - water ballast
Two problems. When you vent the tanks to let the water back in, you
are venting propane to air.
If you develope a leak in your tanks, you are venting propane into
the cabin.
That said, if you only use the propane to dump ballast at the ramp or
occasionaly for light air sailing, and you don't leave the ballast
tanks full of propane all the time, you could probably get away with
it.
Sure, the gas is flamable. But, have you ever seen epoxy and wood
burn? My point, your whole boat is flamable. And you carry tanks of
gasoline in the back, and a battery full of sulfuric acid.
like like 30 psi. those really small tanks hold like 20 cubic feet in less than one cubic foot (1600
psi). the bigger tanks hold a lot more. a fill is like $0.25 a cubic foot....
sorry if i missed a key point, i don't read all the messages,
Richard
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 14:31:37 -0000
From:richard@...
Subject: Re: wanted to buy - water ballast
Two problems. When you vent the tanks to let the water back in, you
are venting propane to air.
If you develope a leak in your tanks, you are venting propane into
the cabin.
That said, if you only use the propane to dump ballast at the ramp or
occasionaly for light air sailing, and you don't leave the ballast
tanks full of propane all the time, you could probably get away with
it.
Sure, the gas is flamable. But, have you ever seen epoxy and wood
burn? My point, your whole boat is flamable. And you carry tanks of
gasoline in the back, and a battery full of sulfuric acid.
If you use a small enough hose or orifice to slow the flow, you won't
get anywhere near 4psi as long as a vent is open. 4psi is very
approximately equivalent to pressure under 8' of water.
4 psi guage pressure will only expand about 1/4, so it won't be much
of an explosion. Might break something if you really seal it up.
If I'm not mistaken, less than 500 ft/lbs of energy. If you apply it
just right, you can probably get some interesting effects, but it's
about as much energy as a bicyclist.
get anywhere near 4psi as long as a vent is open. 4psi is very
approximately equivalent to pressure under 8' of water.
4 psi guage pressure will only expand about 1/4, so it won't be much
of an explosion. Might break something if you really seal it up.
If I'm not mistaken, less than 500 ft/lbs of energy. If you apply it
just right, you can probably get some interesting effects, but it's
about as much energy as a bicyclist.
--- In bolger@y..., m_doles@y... wrote:
> I would like to disuade anyone from using compessed air. I once saw
> a barge where compressed air had been pumped to raise it off the
> botton of a bay. Now normally a snorkel is fitted to a barge and
> then a water hose is fitted to another opening and the water is
> pumped out and air replaces it so no vaccum is formed. At 4psi the
> barge bloated into the shape of a football when air was pumped in.
> If you pump air into a water ballast tank at 4 psi and the ballast
> tank has a surface area of 25 sq. ft. (6"x2'x5')4100sq.in. x 4psi
you
> now have a bomb. Even with a 2 in. hose to let the pressure-water
> out you will form a column of water in the hose equalling more then
4
> psi. A water pump is a much better idea. This is why
> boilers,compressed air tanks,fire extinguishers are all tested with
> hydrostatic testing NOT COMPRESSED AIR.
> --- In bolger@y..., "david galvin" <porcupine@d...> wrote:
> > Well, as long as you're going there anyway, why not helium?
There's
> > no danger of explosion, and it will really help lighten the boat
> up.
> > Of course, if it escapes into the cabin, conversations will rise--
> in
> > pitch if not in intellect....
> >
> > ;o)
> >
> > porky
> >
> > --- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
> > > How about propane? It's cheap, available, and the pressure is
> not
> > too high.
> > > It should not be explosive if it displaces water, and there is
no
> > air
> > > introduced.
> > >
> > > Chuck
> > > >
> > > > Air compressor?
> > > > How about a nice fire extinquisher? The CO2 in it is in liquid
> > form,
> > > > and should give you many ballast blows.
> > > >
> > > > Or, use a portable air bottle which you fill up at the house
> when
> > you
> > > > charge the batteries. You wouldn't need a regulator, just a
> valve.
> > > >
> > > > Well, mayby some sort of restrictor, hate to blow the ballast
> > tanks
> > > > up when the water wasn't squirting out the bottom fast enough!
> > > >
> > > >
I would like to disuade anyone from using compessed air. I once saw
a barge where compressed air had been pumped to raise it off the
botton of a bay. Now normally a snorkel is fitted to a barge and
then a water hose is fitted to another opening and the water is
pumped out and air replaces it so no vaccum is formed. At 4psi the
barge bloated into the shape of a football when air was pumped in.
If you pump air into a water ballast tank at 4 psi and the ballast
tank has a surface area of 25 sq. ft. (6"x2'x5')4100sq.in. x 4psi you
now have a bomb. Even with a 2 in. hose to let the pressure-water
out you will form a column of water in the hose equalling more then 4
psi. A water pump is a much better idea. This is why
boilers,compressed air tanks,fire extinguishers are all tested with
hydrostatic testing NOT COMPRESSED AIR.
a barge where compressed air had been pumped to raise it off the
botton of a bay. Now normally a snorkel is fitted to a barge and
then a water hose is fitted to another opening and the water is
pumped out and air replaces it so no vaccum is formed. At 4psi the
barge bloated into the shape of a football when air was pumped in.
If you pump air into a water ballast tank at 4 psi and the ballast
tank has a surface area of 25 sq. ft. (6"x2'x5')4100sq.in. x 4psi you
now have a bomb. Even with a 2 in. hose to let the pressure-water
out you will form a column of water in the hose equalling more then 4
psi. A water pump is a much better idea. This is why
boilers,compressed air tanks,fire extinguishers are all tested with
hydrostatic testing NOT COMPRESSED AIR.
--- In bolger@y..., "david galvin" <porcupine@d...> wrote:
> Well, as long as you're going there anyway, why not helium? There's
> no danger of explosion, and it will really help lighten the boat
up.
> Of course, if it escapes into the cabin, conversations will rise--
in
> pitch if not in intellect....
>
> ;o)
>
> porky
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
> > How about propane? It's cheap, available, and the pressure is
not
> too high.
> > It should not be explosive if it displaces water, and there is no
> air
> > introduced.
> >
> > Chuck
> > >
> > > Air compressor?
> > > How about a nice fire extinquisher? The CO2 in it is in liquid
> form,
> > > and should give you many ballast blows.
> > >
> > > Or, use a portable air bottle which you fill up at the house
when
> you
> > > charge the batteries. You wouldn't need a regulator, just a
valve.
> > >
> > > Well, mayby some sort of restrictor, hate to blow the ballast
> tanks
> > > up when the water wasn't squirting out the bottom fast enough!
> > >
> > >
Only about half joking. I would use CO2 myself, or an air bottle as I
suggested. The air bottle could be refilled by one of those cheap 12v
compressors if you needed to recharge it. Most likely, the air you
put in it before going to the lake would be plenty.
However, propane would work, and would be not much more dangerous
than filling the gas tank.... :-)
suggested. The air bottle could be refilled by one of those cheap 12v
compressors if you needed to recharge it. Most likely, the air you
put in it before going to the lake would be plenty.
However, propane would work, and would be not much more dangerous
than filling the gas tank.... :-)
--- In bolger@y..., "Lincoln Ross" <lincolnr@m...> wrote:
> I hope you're joking, as Chuck was. This is very dangerous stuff if
> used this way. I used to muck around with acetylene, which I'm sure
> behaves in a similar way. I was pretty careful and got away with
it,
> but the effects were impressive. Would be less than fun if
> uncontrolled. Remember, the propane has to come out sometime. But
C02
> might be safer, if you avoided large accumulations of it on the
ground
> in low spots near someone's pet or toddler. Either would be
pollution.
>
> When you use gasoline, it mostly stays liquid and mostly burns up.
>
> --- In bolger@y..., richard@s... wrote:
> > Actualy, what is so goofy about it? Other than using a flamable
gas
> > in place of compressed air? It would certainly be no more
dangerous
> > than filling up the gas tank on your car or boat.
> >
> > --- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
> > > Porky:
> > >
> > > Sometimes when I am making goofy remarks like the one below, I
> > forget that
> > > there are NINE HUNDRED pairs of eyeballs on this list. I
> apologize
> > in
> > > advance for any anything whatsoever that I happen to write.
> > >
> > > Chuck
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Well, as long as you're going there anyway, why not helium?
> > There's
> > > > no danger of explosion, and it will really help lighten the
boat
> > up.
> > > > Of course, if it escapes into the cabin, conversations will
> rise--
> > in
> > > > pitch if not in intellect....
> > > >
> > > > ;o)
> > > >
> > > > porky
> > > >
> > > > --- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
> > > > > How about propane? It's cheap, available, and the pressure
is
> > not
> > > > too high.
> > > > > It should not be explosive if it displaces water, and there
is
> > no
> > > > air
> > > > > introduced.
> > > > >
> > > > > Chuck
> > > >
I hope you're joking, as Chuck was. This is very dangerous stuff if
used this way. I used to muck around with acetylene, which I'm sure
behaves in a similar way. I was pretty careful and got away with it,
but the effects were impressive. Would be less than fun if
uncontrolled. Remember, the propane has to come out sometime. But C02
might be safer, if you avoided large accumulations of it on the ground
in low spots near someone's pet or toddler. Either would be pollution.
When you use gasoline, it mostly stays liquid and mostly burns up.
used this way. I used to muck around with acetylene, which I'm sure
behaves in a similar way. I was pretty careful and got away with it,
but the effects were impressive. Would be less than fun if
uncontrolled. Remember, the propane has to come out sometime. But C02
might be safer, if you avoided large accumulations of it on the ground
in low spots near someone's pet or toddler. Either would be pollution.
When you use gasoline, it mostly stays liquid and mostly burns up.
--- In bolger@y..., richard@s... wrote:
> Actualy, what is so goofy about it? Other than using a flamable gas
> in place of compressed air? It would certainly be no more dangerous
> than filling up the gas tank on your car or boat.
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
> > Porky:
> >
> > Sometimes when I am making goofy remarks like the one below, I
> forget that
> > there are NINE HUNDRED pairs of eyeballs on this list. I
apologize
> in
> > advance for any anything whatsoever that I happen to write.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > >
> > > Well, as long as you're going there anyway, why not helium?
> There's
> > > no danger of explosion, and it will really help lighten the boat
> up.
> > > Of course, if it escapes into the cabin, conversations will
rise--
> in
> > > pitch if not in intellect....
> > >
> > > ;o)
> > >
> > > porky
> > >
> > > --- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
> > > > How about propane? It's cheap, available, and the pressure is
> not
> > > too high.
> > > > It should not be explosive if it displaces water, and there is
> no
> > > air
> > > > introduced.
> > > >
> > > > Chuck
> > >
Now, if you used a little propane and a little oxygen and a little
spark, you might be able to get the ballast overboard in a hurry!
PHV
spark, you might be able to get the ballast overboard in a hurry!
PHV
--- In bolger@y..., richard@s... wrote:
> Actualy, what is so goofy about it? Other than using a flamable gas
> in place of compressed air? It would certainly be no more dangerous
> than filling up the gas tank on your car or boat.
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
> > Porky:
> >
> > Sometimes when I am making goofy remarks like the one below, I
> forget that
> > there are NINE HUNDRED pairs of eyeballs on this list. I
apologize
> in
> > advance for any anything whatsoever that I happen to write.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > >
> > > Well, as long as you're going there anyway, why not helium?
> There's
> > > no danger of explosion, and it will really help lighten the
boat
> up.
> > > Of course, if it escapes into the cabin, conversations will
rise--
> in
> > > pitch if not in intellect....
> > >
> > > ;o)
> > >
> > > porky
> > >
> > > --- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
> > > > How about propane? It's cheap, available, and the pressure
is
> not
> > > too high.
> > > > It should not be explosive if it displaces water, and there
is
> no
> > > air
> > > > introduced.
> > > >
> > > > Chuck
> > >
Actualy, what is so goofy about it? Other than using a flamable gas
in place of compressed air? It would certainly be no more dangerous
than filling up the gas tank on your car or boat.
in place of compressed air? It would certainly be no more dangerous
than filling up the gas tank on your car or boat.
--- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
> Porky:
>
> Sometimes when I am making goofy remarks like the one below, I
forget that
> there are NINE HUNDRED pairs of eyeballs on this list. I apologize
in
> advance for any anything whatsoever that I happen to write.
>
> Chuck
>
> >
> > Well, as long as you're going there anyway, why not helium?
There's
> > no danger of explosion, and it will really help lighten the boat
up.
> > Of course, if it escapes into the cabin, conversations will rise--
in
> > pitch if not in intellect....
> >
> > ;o)
> >
> > porky
> >
> > --- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
> > > How about propane? It's cheap, available, and the pressure is
not
> > too high.
> > > It should not be explosive if it displaces water, and there is
no
> > air
> > > introduced.
> > >
> > > Chuck
> >
Two problems. When you vent the tanks to let the water back in, you
are venting propane to air.
If you develope a leak in your tanks, you are venting propane into
the cabin.
That said, if you only use the propane to dump ballast at the ramp or
occasionaly for light air sailing, and you don't leave the ballast
tanks full of propane all the time, you could probably get away with
it.
Sure, the gas is flamable. But, have you ever seen epoxy and wood
burn? My point, your whole boat is flamable. And you carry tanks of
gasoline in the back, and a battery full of sulfuric acid.
are venting propane to air.
If you develope a leak in your tanks, you are venting propane into
the cabin.
That said, if you only use the propane to dump ballast at the ramp or
occasionaly for light air sailing, and you don't leave the ballast
tanks full of propane all the time, you could probably get away with
it.
Sure, the gas is flamable. But, have you ever seen epoxy and wood
burn? My point, your whole boat is flamable. And you carry tanks of
gasoline in the back, and a battery full of sulfuric acid.
--- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
> How about propane? It's cheap, available, and the pressure is not
too high.
> It should not be explosive if it displaces water, and there is no
air
> introduced.
>
> Chuck
> >
> > Air compressor?
> > How about a nice fire extinquisher? The CO2 in it is in liquid
form,
> > and should give you many ballast blows.
> >
> > Or, use a portable air bottle which you fill up at the house when
you
> > charge the batteries. You wouldn't need a regulator, just a valve.
> >
> > Well, mayby some sort of restrictor, hate to blow the ballast
tanks
> > up when the water wasn't squirting out the bottom fast enough!
> >
> >
Porky:
Sometimes when I am making goofy remarks like the one below, I forget that
there are NINE HUNDRED pairs of eyeballs on this list. I apologize in
advance for any anything whatsoever that I happen to write.
Chuck
Sometimes when I am making goofy remarks like the one below, I forget that
there are NINE HUNDRED pairs of eyeballs on this list. I apologize in
advance for any anything whatsoever that I happen to write.
Chuck
>
> Well, as long as you're going there anyway, why not helium? There's
> no danger of explosion, and it will really help lighten the boat up.
> Of course, if it escapes into the cabin, conversations will rise--in
> pitch if not in intellect....
>
> ;o)
>
> porky
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
> > How about propane? It's cheap, available, and the pressure is not
> too high.
> > It should not be explosive if it displaces water, and there is no
> air
> > introduced.
> >
> > Chuck
>
Well, as long as you're going there anyway, why not helium? There's
no danger of explosion, and it will really help lighten the boat up.
Of course, if it escapes into the cabin, conversations will rise--in
pitch if not in intellect....
;o)
porky
no danger of explosion, and it will really help lighten the boat up.
Of course, if it escapes into the cabin, conversations will rise--in
pitch if not in intellect....
;o)
porky
--- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
> How about propane? It's cheap, available, and the pressure is not
too high.
> It should not be explosive if it displaces water, and there is no
air
> introduced.
>
> Chuck
> >
> > Air compressor?
> > How about a nice fire extinquisher? The CO2 in it is in liquid
form,
> > and should give you many ballast blows.
> >
> > Or, use a portable air bottle which you fill up at the house when
you
> > charge the batteries. You wouldn't need a regulator, just a valve.
> >
> > Well, mayby some sort of restrictor, hate to blow the ballast
tanks
> > up when the water wasn't squirting out the bottom fast enough!
> >
> >
How about propane? It's cheap, available, and the pressure is not too high.
It should not be explosive if it displaces water, and there is no air
introduced.
Chuck
It should not be explosive if it displaces water, and there is no air
introduced.
Chuck
>
> Air compressor?
> How about a nice fire extinquisher? The CO2 in it is in liquid form,
> and should give you many ballast blows.
>
> Or, use a portable air bottle which you fill up at the house when you
> charge the batteries. You wouldn't need a regulator, just a valve.
>
> Well, mayby some sort of restrictor, hate to blow the ballast tanks
> up when the water wasn't squirting out the bottom fast enough!
>
>
Air compressor?
How about a nice fire extinquisher? The CO2 in it is in liquid form,
and should give you many ballast blows.
Or, use a portable air bottle which you fill up at the house when you
charge the batteries. You wouldn't need a regulator, just a valve.
Well, mayby some sort of restrictor, hate to blow the ballast tanks
up when the water wasn't squirting out the bottom fast enough!
How about a nice fire extinquisher? The CO2 in it is in liquid form,
and should give you many ballast blows.
Or, use a portable air bottle which you fill up at the house when you
charge the batteries. You wouldn't need a regulator, just a valve.
Well, mayby some sort of restrictor, hate to blow the ballast tanks
up when the water wasn't squirting out the bottom fast enough!
--- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
> Seriously, though, does it make sense to substitute an air
compressor for a
> bilge pump? I would probably have to have a regulator to control
the
> pressure and a tank to hold the air. The only gain I can see for
all this
> complication is somewhat faster dumping of ballast. Am I missing
something?
>
> Chuck
>
> >
> > I'm sure you can get it at Harbor Frieght.
> >
> > --- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
> > > > Chuck, you should try the compressed air trick, and let us
know
> > how
> > > > it works!
> > >
> > > Ok. Anybody got any compressed air for sale?
> > >
> > > Chuck
> >
Hi Jim,
I agree with you about the added mass, but I have to disagree about
the tanks. You're certainly right about the behavior of EXTERNAL
tanks, but they act as they do because they are changing the shape of
the hull. If you kept the two small external tanks empty and added the
equivalent mass on the centerline of the boat at the same height, then
the static stability would be unchanged. The static forces on the
outside of the hull depend only on how the hull is immersed and the
shape of the hull, not on the distribution of mass inside the hull. Of
course if the cg is shifted, the hull will not end up in the same
position, and the external forces on the hull will change until
equilibrium is reached. THe analogy of a hull missing the portions
making up the tanks, except when some of the water is lifted above the
waterline is correct as far as it goes, but you can acheive the same
results with any mass inside that will give the same center of gravity
assuming that you fill the tanks all the way so they don't slosh.
BTW, on vessels with significant tankage, this sloshing can be a real
problem. If there's any significant "free surface", then this tankage
is included in stability calculations. It's been a few years since
I've done any, though.
I agree with you about the added mass, but I have to disagree about
the tanks. You're certainly right about the behavior of EXTERNAL
tanks, but they act as they do because they are changing the shape of
the hull. If you kept the two small external tanks empty and added the
equivalent mass on the centerline of the boat at the same height, then
the static stability would be unchanged. The static forces on the
outside of the hull depend only on how the hull is immersed and the
shape of the hull, not on the distribution of mass inside the hull. Of
course if the cg is shifted, the hull will not end up in the same
position, and the external forces on the hull will change until
equilibrium is reached. THe analogy of a hull missing the portions
making up the tanks, except when some of the water is lifted above the
waterline is correct as far as it goes, but you can acheive the same
results with any mass inside that will give the same center of gravity
assuming that you fill the tanks all the way so they don't slosh.
BTW, on vessels with significant tankage, this sloshing can be a real
problem. If there's any significant "free surface", then this tankage
is included in stability calculations. It's been a few years since
I've done any, though.
--- In bolger@y..., James Pope <jpope@m...> wrote:
snip
> Your point that water ballast adds mass is good. Water ballast tanks
> within the hull leave the hull's stability generated by the hull's
shape
> less the shape of the tanks. The ballast's mass has the effect of
increasing
> the boat's roll period and makes her less sensitive to small rolling
impulses.
Yup. NOt always good when there's a long swell running, tho. A certain
diving trip I took where even the captain got sick comes to mind.
> To illustrate: Take a sheet of paper. draw a horizontal line to
represent
> the waterline. Use a compass to draw a circle of some diameter, say
2",
> centered on the drawn waterline.
> Call that the boats midship section. Draw a line downward from the
> circle's lowest point for about an inch At that point attach a
smaller circle.
> Call that the cross section of an external water ballast tank (sort
of
> like the chunk of lead on a fin keel).
> That water ballast tank would neither increase nor decrease the
boat's
> stability no matter how far the boat heeled.(Less than 90deg.)
> Now erase the downward appendage and draw a line extending outward
> on both sides of the hull each out, say, an inch. Attach a small
circle to each
> outward extending line as the cross section of two matching ballast
tanks.
> Now assume the boat is heeled. The leeward tank is still underwater,
> its weight matched by the weight of the water it displaces. No
effect on
> stability. But the weather tank's weight is no longer matched by the
> weight of the air it displaces. That weight times the arm from its
> center of mass to the center of buoyancy of the hull is the righting
> force the water filled tank now adds to the heeled boat.
> It may be that having two tanks, each as far outboard as they can be
gotten
> would be more effective than a central one of volume equal to the
two.
snip
Don't use air compressor, just throw in lots of Pepto Bismol or
vinegar and baking soda. (Sorry, couldn't help myself)
vinegar and baking soda. (Sorry, couldn't help myself)
--- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
> Seriously, though, does it make sense to substitute an air
compressor for a
> bilge pump? I would probably have to have a regulator to control
the
> pressure and a tank to hold the air. The only gain I can see for
all this
> complication is somewhat faster dumping of ballast. Am I missing
something?
>
> Chuck
>
> >
> > I'm sure you can get it at Harbor Frieght.
> >
> > --- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
> > > > Chuck, you should try the compressed air trick, and let us
know
> > how
> > > > it works!
> > >
> > > Ok. Anybody got any compressed air for sale?
> > >
> > > Chuck
> >
Seriously, though, does it make sense to substitute an air compressor for a
bilge pump? I would probably have to have a regulator to control the
pressure and a tank to hold the air. The only gain I can see for all this
complication is somewhat faster dumping of ballast. Am I missing something?
Chuck
bilge pump? I would probably have to have a regulator to control the
pressure and a tank to hold the air. The only gain I can see for all this
complication is somewhat faster dumping of ballast. Am I missing something?
Chuck
>
> I'm sure you can get it at Harbor Frieght.
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
> > > Chuck, you should try the compressed air trick, and let us know
> how
> > > it works!
> >
> > Ok. Anybody got any compressed air for sale?
> >
> > Chuck
>
In a message dated 9/5/01 12:40:40 PM Central Daylight Time,
chuck@...writes:
down-load hot air for free - given Boyle's Law, hot air should be equivalent
of compressed air, so this would be a real bargain. If I can find that site
again, I'll pass the URL along to you.
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
chuck@...writes:
> Ok. Anybody got any compressed air for sale?Chuck - I believe I saw some "shareware" on the 'net that allows you to
>
> Chuck
>
>
down-load hot air for free - given Boyle's Law, hot air should be equivalent
of compressed air, so this would be a real bargain. If I can find that site
again, I'll pass the URL along to you.
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm sure you can get it at Harbor Frieght.
--- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
> > Chuck, you should try the compressed air trick, and let us know
how
> > it works!
>
> Ok. Anybody got any compressed air for sale?
>
> Chuck
> Chuck, you should try the compressed air trick, and let us know howOk. Anybody got any compressed air for sale?
> it works!
Chuck
Hi Linc,
Good point re: PCB's aversion to having holes which might let the ocean
into the boat if something goes wrong. He almost lost his lovely
'Resolution' when a water cooling hose failed a few years ago.
Your point that water ballast adds mass is good. Water ballast tanks
within the hull leave the hull's stability generated by the hull's shape
less the shape of the tanks. The ballast's mass has the effect of increasing
the boat's roll period and makes her less sensitive to small rolling impulses.
To illustrate: Take a sheet of paper. draw a horizontal line to represent
the waterline. Use a compass to draw a circle of some diameter, say 2",
centered on the drawn waterline.
Call that the boats midship section. Draw a line downward from the
circle's lowest point for about an inch At that point attach a smaller circle.
Call that the cross section of an external water ballast tank (sort of
like the chunk of lead on a fin keel).
That water ballast tank would neither increase nor decrease the boat's
stability no matter how far the boat heeled.(Less than 90deg.)
Now erase the downward appendage and draw a line extending outward
on both sides of the hull each out, say, an inch. Attach a small circle to each
outward extending line as the cross section of two matching ballast tanks.
Now assume the boat is heeled. The leeward tank is still underwater,
its weight matched by the weight of the water it displaces. No effect on
stability. But the weather tank's weight is no longer matched by the
weight of the air it displaces. That weight times the arm from its
center of mass to the center of buoyancy of the hull is the righting
force the water filled tank now adds to the heeled boat.
It may be that having two tanks, each as far outboard as they can be gotten
would be more effective than a central one of volume equal to the two.
There is also a neat way to fill at launch and drain both tanks on haulout when
she is on an even keel but which prevents draining when heeled.
The method doesn't require either valves or pumps.
Just some thoughts,
Jim
Lincoln Ross wrote:
Good point re: PCB's aversion to having holes which might let the ocean
into the boat if something goes wrong. He almost lost his lovely
'Resolution' when a water cooling hose failed a few years ago.
Your point that water ballast adds mass is good. Water ballast tanks
within the hull leave the hull's stability generated by the hull's shape
less the shape of the tanks. The ballast's mass has the effect of increasing
the boat's roll period and makes her less sensitive to small rolling impulses.
To illustrate: Take a sheet of paper. draw a horizontal line to represent
the waterline. Use a compass to draw a circle of some diameter, say 2",
centered on the drawn waterline.
Call that the boats midship section. Draw a line downward from the
circle's lowest point for about an inch At that point attach a smaller circle.
Call that the cross section of an external water ballast tank (sort of
like the chunk of lead on a fin keel).
That water ballast tank would neither increase nor decrease the boat's
stability no matter how far the boat heeled.(Less than 90deg.)
Now erase the downward appendage and draw a line extending outward
on both sides of the hull each out, say, an inch. Attach a small circle to each
outward extending line as the cross section of two matching ballast tanks.
Now assume the boat is heeled. The leeward tank is still underwater,
its weight matched by the weight of the water it displaces. No effect on
stability. But the weather tank's weight is no longer matched by the
weight of the air it displaces. That weight times the arm from its
center of mass to the center of buoyancy of the hull is the righting
force the water filled tank now adds to the heeled boat.
It may be that having two tanks, each as far outboard as they can be gotten
would be more effective than a central one of volume equal to the two.
There is also a neat way to fill at launch and drain both tanks on haulout when
she is on an even keel but which prevents draining when heeled.
The method doesn't require either valves or pumps.
Just some thoughts,
Jim
Lincoln Ross wrote:
> Keep in mind that any openings below the waterline put a real premium
> on the quality of any plumbing connected to that opening. Any fitting
> added to this plumbing is
> something else to fail, as is any additional hose or pipe. Seems like
> Bolger feels strongly about this judging by some of his recent essays
> about designs where he uses an air cooled engine and self contained
> head so the only thru hull is for the prop shaft.
>
> Putting the tanks more outboard doesn't really do anything unless you
> only fill the windward tank. What matters is the center of mass, which
> will be on the centerline of the boat. It should be as low as
> possible. Fore and aft location is important also, obviously.
>
> <snip>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Chuck, you should try the compressed air trick, and let us know how
it works!
RE: ramps. Traded my S10 in for a Toyota four banger with a stick.
Was worried about pulling the boat up the ramp until I had a thought
one night: "Put it in 4WD LOW, silly!"
Works wonderful, don't have to worry about rolling backwards if the
parking brake fails, pulles the boat and trailer up the ramp with no
objections. And, I can start the run up the ramp without rolling back
at all! Except when I leave it in reverse...
it works!
RE: ramps. Traded my S10 in for a Toyota four banger with a stick.
Was worried about pulling the boat up the ramp until I had a thought
one night: "Put it in 4WD LOW, silly!"
Works wonderful, don't have to worry about rolling backwards if the
parking brake fails, pulles the boat and trailer up the ramp with no
objections. And, I can start the run up the ramp without rolling back
at all! Except when I leave it in reverse...
--- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
> I have a MIchalak 'Caprice', and I installed Rule 1000 gpm pumps in
each
> tank. The main reason was to dump a third of the weight before I
haul the
> boat out of the water with my little Ranger four banger. The truck
tows the
> boat Ok, but on steep ramps, it needs all the help it can get.
>
> The secondary reason for the pumps was for better performance under
power.
> Unfortunately, I have yet to test the speed with and without
ballast.
>
> The pumps will remove 700 lbs. of ballast in about five minutes.
It's not
> too complicated: there are no valves, and the only thru hull
fittings are
> above the waterline. The tanks fill from a hole in the bottom
which is
> plugged after filling.
>
> Chuck
I have a MIchalak 'Caprice', and I installed Rule 1000 gpm pumps in each
tank. The main reason was to dump a third of the weight before I haul the
boat out of the water with my little Ranger four banger. The truck tows the
boat Ok, but on steep ramps, it needs all the help it can get.
The secondary reason for the pumps was for better performance under power.
Unfortunately, I have yet to test the speed with and without ballast.
The pumps will remove 700 lbs. of ballast in about five minutes. It's not
too complicated: there are no valves, and the only thru hull fittings are
above the waterline. The tanks fill from a hole in the bottom which is
plugged after filling.
Chuck
tank. The main reason was to dump a third of the weight before I haul the
boat out of the water with my little Ranger four banger. The truck tows the
boat Ok, but on steep ramps, it needs all the help it can get.
The secondary reason for the pumps was for better performance under power.
Unfortunately, I have yet to test the speed with and without ballast.
The pumps will remove 700 lbs. of ballast in about five minutes. It's not
too complicated: there are no valves, and the only thru hull fittings are
above the waterline. The tanks fill from a hole in the bottom which is
plugged after filling.
Chuck
Chebacco news #26. May, 1999
www.chebacco.com
click on "old articles"
www.chebacco.com
click on "old articles"
--- In bolger@y..., garth@b... wrote:
> Didn't I see somewhere that Pippo Bianco had calculated the
stability
> curves for Micro, Long Micro, and Chebacco -- and Chebacco was very
> little improved by ballast? Did I just dream this?
>
> I do dream about Chebacco quite a lot -- and hope to begin building
> some day.
>
> Meanwhile, I've just glassed and sanded the bottom of my Michalak
> Mayfly 14, and hope paint it tomorrow. And sew the sail. And sand
the
> spars. And make the tiller . . .
>
> All best,
> Garth
>
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "Orr, Jamie" <jorr@b...> wrote:
> > Regarding ballast, I've never tried it, unless your count live
> ballast.
> > I've never felt the need for it in any kind of conditions, rough
or
> smooth.
> > Have you sailed the boat without ballast yet or is it still in
> build? I
> > recommend trying it as designed first.
> >
> > Have a look in Chebacco News back issues -- Tim Smith bought
Sister
> Krista's
> > boat, which had 300 pounds of ballast. One of the first things he
> did was
> > take it all out, I believe.
> >
> > Jamie Orr
Y'all are making this more complicated than I am. The ballast tanks would be of the standard seacock and deckplate variety with
maybe a fitting in the side connected to the bilgepump. An easier way to do it, I suppose, would just be to open the deckplate
and stick a hose in to 'vacuum' it out. In any case it would allow the boat to be trimmed to better suit the conditions. My real
question was, how would a Chebacco take to some water ballast?
TC
maybe a fitting in the side connected to the bilgepump. An easier way to do it, I suppose, would just be to open the deckplate
and stick a hose in to 'vacuum' it out. In any case it would allow the boat to be trimmed to better suit the conditions. My real
question was, how would a Chebacco take to some water ballast?
TC
--- In bolger@y..., "Dan Bollinger" <danbollinger@h...> wrote:
> > Yeah, you guys are lots of laughs. Pulling the cork while at sea
> isn't going to help me drain the ballast tanks. I want the tanks tied
> > into the bilge pump with valves etc. so that I can lighten the boat
> in very light winds.
> >
> > TC
>
> LOL! They were funny, weren't they!? If you are trailer sailing
> valves and pumps are too complicated. Let's face it, you know by the
> season, weather report and current conditions if it is likely to get
> lighter air later. Just don't fill the tanks as full and adjust your
> sails instead. I had a Sea Pearl 21 (first production boat to use
> water ballast). No valves, no pumps no hoses. The minor added
> resistance from the extra weight in light air wasn't all that much.
> That's because hull friction at very slow speeds isn't a major
> component of the total drag. The only reasons for valves and pumps
> is if you sail from a mooring or if you believe that a complicated
> life is the only one to live. :) Dan
Didn't I see somewhere that Pippo Bianco had calculated the stability
curves for Micro, Long Micro, and Chebacco -- and Chebacco was very
little improved by ballast? Did I just dream this?
I do dream about Chebacco quite a lot -- and hope to begin building
some day.
Meanwhile, I've just glassed and sanded the bottom of my Michalak
Mayfly 14, and hope paint it tomorrow. And sew the sail. And sand the
spars. And make the tiller . . .
All best,
Garth
curves for Micro, Long Micro, and Chebacco -- and Chebacco was very
little improved by ballast? Did I just dream this?
I do dream about Chebacco quite a lot -- and hope to begin building
some day.
Meanwhile, I've just glassed and sanded the bottom of my Michalak
Mayfly 14, and hope paint it tomorrow. And sew the sail. And sand the
spars. And make the tiller . . .
All best,
Garth
--- In bolger@y..., "Orr, Jamie" <jorr@b...> wrote:
> Regarding ballast, I've never tried it, unless your count live
ballast.
> I've never felt the need for it in any kind of conditions, rough or
smooth.
> Have you sailed the boat without ballast yet or is it still in
build? I
> recommend trying it as designed first.
>
> Have a look in Chebacco News back issues -- Tim Smith bought Sister
Krista's
> boat, which had 300 pounds of ballast. One of the first things he
did was
> take it all out, I believe.
>
> Jamie Orr
The live ballast is mentioned a few times in the Chebacco News as being helpful in strong winds, I thought maybe a bit of optional
water ballast could be useful when the live ballast isn't present. Although we call it a catboat, a traditional catboat of 20' would
have a beam of more like 10' to 11'.
No, it isn't in build yet. I'm afraid it's still in dreamboat stage.
TC
water ballast could be useful when the live ballast isn't present. Although we call it a catboat, a traditional catboat of 20' would
have a beam of more like 10' to 11'.
No, it isn't in build yet. I'm afraid it's still in dreamboat stage.
TC
--- In bolger@y..., "Orr, Jamie" <jorr@b...> wrote:
> Regarding ballast, I've never tried it, unless your count live ballast.
> I've never felt the need for it in any kind of conditions, rough or smooth.
> Have you sailed the boat without ballast yet or is it still in build? I
> recommend trying it as designed first.
>
> Have a look in Chebacco News back issues -- Tim Smith bought Sister Krista's
> boat, which had 300 pounds of ballast. One of the first things he did was
> take it all out, I believe.
>
> Jamie Orr
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tcomrie@y... [mailto:tcomrie@y...]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 2:47 PM
> To: bolger@y...
> Subject: [bolger] Re: wanted to buy - Chebacco water ballast
>
>
> Jim,
> Thank you for serious response. The bilge pump should only be used a few
> times per season, otherwise the tanks will be filled
> and emptied in the normal manner. It will not be used to move the ballast
> from one side to the other (I would consider that a bit
> hazardous), but only to empty the tanks should the winds lighten
> drastically.
>
> My original post last week, which seems to have started this laughfest, was
> a question to present owners of Chebaccos as to how
> the boat would be effected by 450 pounds of water in the bilge.
>
>
> --- In bolger@y..., James Pope <jpope@m...> wrote:
> > Hi TC,
> > The kind of water ballasting I think you may be talking about is more akin
> to the water ballasting of ocean racing sailboats which, when
> > they know that they are going to be on the same tack for a while, will
> pump a lot of water into a tank on the boat's weather side. When
> > they come about they pump it all to the new weather side. It's a fair
> amount of work and you will need a reasonably high capacity pump in
> > order to do it in a usefully short time (as well as being a fairly fit
> person).
> > I suggest that you look at marine catalogs for high capacity Whale or
> Gusher pumps.
> > Make a mockup of your design to figure out the plumbing required. The
> pumps are check valves by definition so you will need piping around
> > the pumps to let the water in, or, if your water ballast is to be above
> the waterline, you will need a pump to get it in too.
> > The piping is standard plumbing supply stuff. Valves overboard below the
> waterline are marine items, whether in bronze or glass filled
> > plastic, and the pumps are definitely marine type (expensive) things.
> > The tankage probably has to be built in and should be as far outboard as
> possible to take the maximum advantage of the water ballast when
> > your boat is heeled. Hitching water ballast management to your bilge pump
> system would seem to require manifolding the intakes of the
> > bilge pump, not hard but a little complex. And adding the water ballast
> load to the bilge pump system just doesn't sound conservative,
> > when you really, really, need a bilge pump you don't want it sort of worn
> out through ballast load shifting.
> > I seem to remember that there was a long, and sometimes contradictory,
> thread on the subject of water ballast a while ago.
> > Good luck,
> > Jim
> >
> > tcomrie@y... wrote:
> >
> > > Yeah, you guys are lots of laughs. Pulling the cork while at sea isn't
> going to help me drain the ballast tanks. I want the tanks tied
> > > into the bilge pump with valves etc. so that I can lighten the boat in
> very light winds.
> > >
> > > TC
> > >
> > > --- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
> > > > Good point James!
> > > > My sarcasm is retracted.
> > > > I would have no idea how to build a pump in/pump out system for water
> > > > ballast. Other than, pull out cork, diaphragm pump out.
> > > > Interesting problem.
> > > >
> > > > david jost
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead
> > > > horses
> > > > > > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > > > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all
> > > > you like
> > > > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > > > Gloucester, MA,
> > > > > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > > > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > > > > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
> > > > like
> > > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > > > Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Beg to differ. Hull friction is significant at low speeds. Wavemaking
is more significant at high speeds. That's why in light air dinghy
racers move to the front, and a fair amount of the hull comes out of
the water. But if you don't have a knotmeter and are not racing, it's
not that noticeable on most boats.
is more significant at high speeds. That's why in light air dinghy
racers move to the front, and a fair amount of the hull comes out of
the water. But if you don't have a knotmeter and are not racing, it's
not that noticeable on most boats.
--- In bolger@y..., "Dan Bollinger" <danbollinger@h...> wrote:
snip
> That's because hull friction at very slow speeds isn't a major
> component of the total drag. The only reasons for valves and pumps
> is if you sail from a mooring or if you believe that a complicated
> life is the only one to live. :) Dan
> Yeah, you guys are lots of laughs. Pulling the cork while at seaisn't going to help me drain the ballast tanks. I want the tanks tied
> into the bilge pump with valves etc. so that I can lighten the boatin very light winds.
>LOL! They were funny, weren't they!? If you are trailer sailing
> TC
valves and pumps are too complicated. Let's face it, you know by the
season, weather report and current conditions if it is likely to get
lighter air later. Just don't fill the tanks as full and adjust your
sails instead. I had a Sea Pearl 21 (first production boat to use
water ballast). No valves, no pumps no hoses. The minor added
resistance from the extra weight in light air wasn't all that much.
That's because hull friction at very slow speeds isn't a major
component of the total drag. The only reasons for valves and pumps
is if you sail from a mooring or if you believe that a complicated
life is the only one to live. :) Dan
Keep in mind that any openings below the waterline put a real premium
on the quality of any plumbing connected to that opening. Any fitting
added to this plumbing is
something else to fail, as is any additional hose or pipe. Seems like
Bolger feels strongly about this judging by some of his recent essays
about designs where he uses an air cooled engine and self contained
head so the only thru hull is for the prop shaft.
Putting the tanks more outboard doesn't really do anything unless you
only fill the windward tank. What matters is the center of mass, which
will be on the centerline of the boat. It should be as low as
possible. Fore and aft location is important also, obviously.
on the quality of any plumbing connected to that opening. Any fitting
added to this plumbing is
something else to fail, as is any additional hose or pipe. Seems like
Bolger feels strongly about this judging by some of his recent essays
about designs where he uses an air cooled engine and self contained
head so the only thru hull is for the prop shaft.
Putting the tanks more outboard doesn't really do anything unless you
only fill the windward tank. What matters is the center of mass, which
will be on the centerline of the boat. It should be as low as
possible. Fore and aft location is important also, obviously.
--- In bolger@y..., James Pope <jpope@m...> wrote:
> Hi TC,
> The kind of water ballasting I think you may be talking about is
more akin to the water ballasting of ocean racing sailboats which,
when
>snip
> the pumps to let the water in, or, if your water ballast is to be
above the waterline, you will need a pump to get it in too.
> The piping is standard plumbing supply stuff. Valves overboard below
the waterline are marine items, whether in bronze or glass filled
> plastic, and the pumps are definitely marine type (expensive)
things.
> The tankage probably has to be built in and should be as far
outboard as possible to take the maximum advantage of the water
ballast when
> your boat is heeled.snip
Regarding ballast, I've never tried it, unless your count live ballast.
I've never felt the need for it in any kind of conditions, rough or smooth.
Have you sailed the boat without ballast yet or is it still in build? I
recommend trying it as designed first.
Have a look in Chebacco News back issues -- Tim Smith bought Sister Krista's
boat, which had 300 pounds of ballast. One of the first things he did was
take it all out, I believe.
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From:tcomrie@...[mailto:tcomrie@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 2:47 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: wanted to buy - Chebacco water ballast
Jim,
Thank you for serious response. The bilge pump should only be used a few
times per season, otherwise the tanks will be filled
and emptied in the normal manner. It will not be used to move the ballast
from one side to the other (I would consider that a bit
hazardous), but only to empty the tanks should the winds lighten
drastically.
My original post last week, which seems to have started this laughfest, was
a question to present owners of Chebaccos as to how
the boat would be effected by 450 pounds of water in the bilge.
I've never felt the need for it in any kind of conditions, rough or smooth.
Have you sailed the boat without ballast yet or is it still in build? I
recommend trying it as designed first.
Have a look in Chebacco News back issues -- Tim Smith bought Sister Krista's
boat, which had 300 pounds of ballast. One of the first things he did was
take it all out, I believe.
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From:tcomrie@...[mailto:tcomrie@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 2:47 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: wanted to buy - Chebacco water ballast
Jim,
Thank you for serious response. The bilge pump should only be used a few
times per season, otherwise the tanks will be filled
and emptied in the normal manner. It will not be used to move the ballast
from one side to the other (I would consider that a bit
hazardous), but only to empty the tanks should the winds lighten
drastically.
My original post last week, which seems to have started this laughfest, was
a question to present owners of Chebaccos as to how
the boat would be effected by 450 pounds of water in the bilge.
--- In bolger@y..., James Pope <jpope@m...> wrote:
> Hi TC,
> The kind of water ballasting I think you may be talking about is more akin
to the water ballasting of ocean racing sailboats which, when
> they know that they are going to be on the same tack for a while, will
pump a lot of water into a tank on the boat's weather side. When
> they come about they pump it all to the new weather side. It's a fair
amount of work and you will need a reasonably high capacity pump in
> order to do it in a usefully short time (as well as being a fairly fit
person).
> I suggest that you look at marine catalogs for high capacity Whale or
Gusher pumps.
> Make a mockup of your design to figure out the plumbing required. The
pumps are check valves by definition so you will need piping around
> the pumps to let the water in, or, if your water ballast is to be above
the waterline, you will need a pump to get it in too.
> The piping is standard plumbing supply stuff. Valves overboard below the
waterline are marine items, whether in bronze or glass filled
> plastic, and the pumps are definitely marine type (expensive) things.
> The tankage probably has to be built in and should be as far outboard as
possible to take the maximum advantage of the water ballast when
> your boat is heeled. Hitching water ballast management to your bilge pump
system would seem to require manifolding the intakes of the
> bilge pump, not hard but a little complex. And adding the water ballast
load to the bilge pump system just doesn't sound conservative,
> when you really, really, need a bilge pump you don't want it sort of worn
out through ballast load shifting.
> I seem to remember that there was a long, and sometimes contradictory,
thread on the subject of water ballast a while ago.
> Good luck,
> Jim
>
> tcomrie@y... wrote:
>
> > Yeah, you guys are lots of laughs. Pulling the cork while at sea isn't
going to help me drain the ballast tanks. I want the tanks tied
> > into the bilge pump with valves etc. so that I can lighten the boat in
very light winds.
> >
> > TC
> >
> > --- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
> > > Good point James!
> > > My sarcasm is retracted.
> > > I would have no idea how to build a pump in/pump out system for water
> > > ballast. Other than, pull out cork, diaphragm pump out.
> > > Interesting problem.
> > >
> > > david jost
> > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead
> > > horses
> > > > > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all
> > > you like
> > > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > > Gloucester, MA,
> > > > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > > > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
> > > like
> > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > > Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Jim,
Thank you for serious response. The bilge pump should only be used a few times per season, otherwise the tanks will be filled
and emptied in the normal manner. It will not be used to move the ballast from one side to the other (I would consider that a bit
hazardous), but only to empty the tanks should the winds lighten drastically.
My original post last week, which seems to have started this laughfest, was a question to present owners of Chebaccos as to how
the boat would be effected by 450 pounds of water in the bilge.
Thank you for serious response. The bilge pump should only be used a few times per season, otherwise the tanks will be filled
and emptied in the normal manner. It will not be used to move the ballast from one side to the other (I would consider that a bit
hazardous), but only to empty the tanks should the winds lighten drastically.
My original post last week, which seems to have started this laughfest, was a question to present owners of Chebaccos as to how
the boat would be effected by 450 pounds of water in the bilge.
--- In bolger@y..., James Pope <jpope@m...> wrote:
> Hi TC,
> The kind of water ballasting I think you may be talking about is more akin to the water ballasting of ocean racing sailboats which, when
> they know that they are going to be on the same tack for a while, will pump a lot of water into a tank on the boat's weather side. When
> they come about they pump it all to the new weather side. It's a fair amount of work and you will need a reasonably high capacity pump in
> order to do it in a usefully short time (as well as being a fairly fit person).
> I suggest that you look at marine catalogs for high capacity Whale or Gusher pumps.
> Make a mockup of your design to figure out the plumbing required. The pumps are check valves by definition so you will need piping around
> the pumps to let the water in, or, if your water ballast is to be above the waterline, you will need a pump to get it in too.
> The piping is standard plumbing supply stuff. Valves overboard below the waterline are marine items, whether in bronze or glass filled
> plastic, and the pumps are definitely marine type (expensive) things.
> The tankage probably has to be built in and should be as far outboard as possible to take the maximum advantage of the water ballast when
> your boat is heeled. Hitching water ballast management to your bilge pump system would seem to require manifolding the intakes of the
> bilge pump, not hard but a little complex. And adding the water ballast load to the bilge pump system just doesn't sound conservative,
> when you really, really, need a bilge pump you don't want it sort of worn out through ballast load shifting.
> I seem to remember that there was a long, and sometimes contradictory, thread on the subject of water ballast a while ago.
> Good luck,
> Jim
>
> tcomrie@y... wrote:
>
> > Yeah, you guys are lots of laughs. Pulling the cork while at sea isn't going to help me drain the ballast tanks. I want the tanks tied
> > into the bilge pump with valves etc. so that I can lighten the boat in very light winds.
> >
> > TC
> >
> > --- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
> > > Good point James!
> > > My sarcasm is retracted.
> > > I would have no idea how to build a pump in/pump out system for water
> > > ballast. Other than, pull out cork, diaphragm pump out.
> > > Interesting problem.
> > >
> > > david jost
> > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead
> > > horses
> > > > > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all
> > > you like
> > > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > > Gloucester, MA,
> > > > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > > > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
> > > like
> > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > > Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Naw, use compressed air to blow ballast:
http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/1998/0315/index.htm#Water
%20Ballast%20Details
http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/1998/0315/index.htm#Water
%20Ballast%20Details
--- In bolger@y..., tcomrie@y... wrote:
> Yeah, you guys are lots of laughs. Pulling the cork while at sea
isn't going to help me drain the ballast tanks. I want the tanks tied
> into the bilge pump with valves etc. so that I can lighten the boat
in very light winds.
>
> TC
>
>
>
> --- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
> > Good point James!
> > My sarcasm is retracted.
> > I would have no idea how to build a pump in/pump out system for
water
> > ballast. Other than, pull out cork, diaphragm pump out.
> > Interesting problem.
> >
> > david jost
> > "still, i think that using heavy water from a Nuclear reactor
may
> > have some advantages here"
> > the
> > > > > 1:1 water ballast is the best kind! Just read any of the
books
> > > > > published by the people who sell the water ballast, they
will
> > give
> > > > > you the strait scoop!
> > > > >
> > > > > (sorry, couldn't resist)
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
> > > > > > Mike,
> > > > > > Look into getting a kit to make your own water
ballast. I
> > > > > would
> > > > > > definately use one with a 2:1 mix, and get the pumps to
> > measure
> > > > > > exactly. The big question is, "Which brand of water
ballast
> > kit is
> > > > > > better than another?"
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > David Jost
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead
> > horses
> > > > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and
punctuate
> > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip
all
> > you like
> > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > Gloucester, MA,
> > > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead
horses
> > > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all
you
> > like
> > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yeah, you guys are lots of laughs. Pulling the cork while at sea isn't going to help me drain the ballast tanks. I want the tanks tied
into the bilge pump with valves etc. so that I can lighten the boat in very light winds.
TC
into the bilge pump with valves etc. so that I can lighten the boat in very light winds.
TC
--- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
> Good point James!
> My sarcasm is retracted.
> I would have no idea how to build a pump in/pump out system for water
> ballast. Other than, pull out cork, diaphragm pump out.
> Interesting problem.
>
> david jost
> "still, i think that using heavy water from a Nuclear reactor may
> have some advantages here"
> the
> > > > 1:1 water ballast is the best kind! Just read any of the books
> > > > published by the people who sell the water ballast, they will
> give
> > > > you the strait scoop!
> > > >
> > > > (sorry, couldn't resist)
> > > >
> > > > --- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
> > > > > Mike,
> > > > > Look into getting a kit to make your own water ballast. I
> > > > would
> > > > > definately use one with a 2:1 mix, and get the pumps to
> measure
> > > > > exactly. The big question is, "Which brand of water ballast
> kit is
> > > > > better than another?"
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > David Jost
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> > > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all
> you like
> > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA,
> > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
> like
> > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi TC,
The kind of water ballasting I think you may be talking about is more akin to the water ballasting of ocean racing sailboats which, when
they know that they are going to be on the same tack for a while, will pump a lot of water into a tank on the boat's weather side. When
they come about they pump it all to the new weather side. It's a fair amount of work and you will need a reasonably high capacity pump in
order to do it in a usefully short time (as well as being a fairly fit person).
I suggest that you look at marine catalogs for high capacity Whale or Gusher pumps.
Make a mockup of your design to figure out the plumbing required. The pumps are check valves by definition so you will need piping around
the pumps to let the water in, or, if your water ballast is to be above the waterline, you will need a pump to get it in too.
The piping is standard plumbing supply stuff. Valves overboard below the waterline are marine items, whether in bronze or glass filled
plastic, and the pumps are definitely marine type (expensive) things.
The tankage probably has to be built in and should be as far outboard as possible to take the maximum advantage of the water ballast when
your boat is heeled. Hitching water ballast management to your bilge pump system would seem to require manifolding the intakes of the
bilge pump, not hard but a little complex. And adding the water ballast load to the bilge pump system just doesn't sound conservative,
when you really, really, need a bilge pump you don't want it sort of worn out through ballast load shifting.
I seem to remember that there was a long, and sometimes contradictory, thread on the subject of water ballast a while ago.
Good luck,
Jim
tcomrie@...wrote:
The kind of water ballasting I think you may be talking about is more akin to the water ballasting of ocean racing sailboats which, when
they know that they are going to be on the same tack for a while, will pump a lot of water into a tank on the boat's weather side. When
they come about they pump it all to the new weather side. It's a fair amount of work and you will need a reasonably high capacity pump in
order to do it in a usefully short time (as well as being a fairly fit person).
I suggest that you look at marine catalogs for high capacity Whale or Gusher pumps.
Make a mockup of your design to figure out the plumbing required. The pumps are check valves by definition so you will need piping around
the pumps to let the water in, or, if your water ballast is to be above the waterline, you will need a pump to get it in too.
The piping is standard plumbing supply stuff. Valves overboard below the waterline are marine items, whether in bronze or glass filled
plastic, and the pumps are definitely marine type (expensive) things.
The tankage probably has to be built in and should be as far outboard as possible to take the maximum advantage of the water ballast when
your boat is heeled. Hitching water ballast management to your bilge pump system would seem to require manifolding the intakes of the
bilge pump, not hard but a little complex. And adding the water ballast load to the bilge pump system just doesn't sound conservative,
when you really, really, need a bilge pump you don't want it sort of worn out through ballast load shifting.
I seem to remember that there was a long, and sometimes contradictory, thread on the subject of water ballast a while ago.
Good luck,
Jim
tcomrie@...wrote:
> Yeah, you guys are lots of laughs. Pulling the cork while at sea isn't going to help me drain the ballast tanks. I want the tanks tied
> into the bilge pump with valves etc. so that I can lighten the boat in very light winds.
>
> TC
>
> --- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
> > Good point James!
> > My sarcasm is retracted.
> > I would have no idea how to build a pump in/pump out system for water
> > ballast. Other than, pull out cork, diaphragm pump out.
> > Interesting problem.
> >
> > david jost
> >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead
> > horses
> > > > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all
> > you like
> > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > Gloucester, MA,
> > > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
> > like
> > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Mike,
Meet me at Jordan Lake next weekend, I will sell you some of mine.
If you buy in quantity I will throw in the US64 bridge.
Justin Meddock
Meet me at Jordan Lake next weekend, I will sell you some of mine.
If you buy in quantity I will throw in the US64 bridge.
Justin Meddock
Michalak has some good articles on this as well. Look in the "way
back archives".
back archives".
--- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
> Good point James!
> My sarcasm is retracted.
> I would have no idea how to build a pump in/pump out system for
water
> ballast. Other than, pull out cork, diaphragm pump out.
> Interesting problem.
>
> david jost
> "still, i think that using heavy water from a Nuclear reactor may
> have some advantages here"
> the
> > > > 1:1 water ballast is the best kind! Just read any of the books
> > > > published by the people who sell the water ballast, they will
> give
> > > > you the strait scoop!
> > > >
> > > > (sorry, couldn't resist)
> > > >
> > > > --- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
> > > > > Mike,
> > > > > Look into getting a kit to make your own water
ballast. I
> > > > would
> > > > > definately use one with a 2:1 mix, and get the pumps to
> measure
> > > > > exactly. The big question is, "Which brand of water
ballast
> kit is
> > > > > better than another?"
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > David Jost
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> > > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all
> you like
> > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA,
> > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead
horses
> > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all
you
> like
> > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Another good product is Nome tap water. The shipping is high, but cost
at the source is low. This water comes from a spring so pure that they
do not have to use chlorine. High quality stuff. You will have to get
it down to Seattle on the barge before freeze up.
HJ
Jeff Blunck wrote:
at the source is low. This water comes from a spring so pure that they
do not have to use chlorine. High quality stuff. You will have to get
it down to Seattle on the barge before freeze up.
HJ
Jeff Blunck wrote:
>
> That's ok Rich, Artesian carries both!
>
>
>
> > Don't tell him to use the 2:1 mix water ballast. Everyone knows the
> > 1:1 water ballast is the best kind! Just read any of the books
> > published by the people who sell the water ballast, they will give
> > you the strait scoop!
> >
> > (sorry, couldn't resist)
> >
> > --- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
> > > Mike,
> > > Look into getting a kit to make your own water ballast. I
> > would
> > > definately use one with a 2:1 mix, and get the pumps to measure
> > > exactly. The big question is, "Which brand of water ballast kit is
> > > better than another?"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > David Jost
>
Good point James!
My sarcasm is retracted.
I would have no idea how to build a pump in/pump out system for water
ballast. Other than, pull out cork, diaphragm pump out.
Interesting problem.
david jost
"still, i think that using heavy water from a Nuclear reactor may
have some advantages here"
the
My sarcasm is retracted.
I would have no idea how to build a pump in/pump out system for water
ballast. Other than, pull out cork, diaphragm pump out.
Interesting problem.
david jost
"still, i think that using heavy water from a Nuclear reactor may
have some advantages here"
the
> > > 1:1 water ballast is the best kind! Just read any of the booksgive
> > > published by the people who sell the water ballast, they will
> > > you the strait scoop!measure
> > >
> > > (sorry, couldn't resist)
> > >
> > > --- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
> > > > Mike,
> > > > Look into getting a kit to make your own water ballast. I
> > > would
> > > > definately use one with a 2:1 mix, and get the pumps to
> > > > exactly. The big question is, "Which brand of water ballastkit is
> > > > better than another?"horses
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > David Jost
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead
> > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuateyou like
> > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all
> > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,Gloucester, MA,
> > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >like
> > >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I hate to say it, guys, but we all may be lightly flaming a man who really doesn't understand that
water ballasting a boat involves the tanks and plumbing he has to build into his boat. The method he
chooses to add the water to the ballast tanks might very well involve buying pumps or valves. There
is a definite "where" to that information.
Imho, with a small smile.
Jim
Jeff Blunck wrote:
water ballasting a boat involves the tanks and plumbing he has to build into his boat. The method he
chooses to add the water to the ballast tanks might very well involve buying pumps or valves. There
is a definite "where" to that information.
Imho, with a small smile.
Jim
Jeff Blunck wrote:
> That's ok Rich, Artesian carries both![Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Jeff
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <richard@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 11:09 AM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: wanted to buy - water ballast
>
> > Don't tell him to use the 2:1 mix water ballast. Everyone knows the
> > 1:1 water ballast is the best kind! Just read any of the books
> > published by the people who sell the water ballast, they will give
> > you the strait scoop!
> >
> > (sorry, couldn't resist)
> >
> > --- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
> > > Mike,
> > > Look into getting a kit to make your own water ballast. I
> > would
> > > definately use one with a 2:1 mix, and get the pumps to measure
> > > exactly. The big question is, "Which brand of water ballast kit is
> > > better than another?"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > David Jost
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
That's ok Rich, Artesian carries both!
Jeff
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: <richard@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 11:09 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: wanted to buy - water ballast
> Don't tell him to use the 2:1 mix water ballast. Everyone knows the
> 1:1 water ballast is the best kind! Just read any of the books
> published by the people who sell the water ballast, they will give
> you the strait scoop!
>
> (sorry, couldn't resist)
>
> --- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
> > Mike,
> > Look into getting a kit to make your own water ballast. I
> would
> > definately use one with a 2:1 mix, and get the pumps to measure
> > exactly. The big question is, "Which brand of water ballast kit is
> > better than another?"
> >
> >
> >
> > David Jost
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > Mike
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Don't tell him to use the 2:1 mix water ballast. Everyone knows the
1:1 water ballast is the best kind! Just read any of the books
published by the people who sell the water ballast, they will give
you the strait scoop!
(sorry, couldn't resist)
1:1 water ballast is the best kind! Just read any of the books
published by the people who sell the water ballast, they will give
you the strait scoop!
(sorry, couldn't resist)
--- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
> Mike,
> Look into getting a kit to make your own water ballast. I
would
> definately use one with a 2:1 mix, and get the pumps to measure
> exactly. The big question is, "Which brand of water ballast kit is
> better than another?"
>
>
>
> David Jost
>
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Mike
I think I'd go with the Artesian brand. More reliable, pure, natural, than
other makes.
Jeff
other makes.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: <djost@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 10:53 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: wanted to buy - water ballast
> Mike,
> Look into getting a kit to make your own water ballast. I would
> definately use one with a 2:1 mix, and get the pumps to measure
> exactly. The big question is, "Which brand of water ballast kit is
> better than another?"
>
>
>
> David Jost
>
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Mike
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
--- In bolger@y..., mkstocks@b... wrote:
Mike, for casual boating I use Poland Springs water ballast. For
those special trips Perrier ballast is wonderful but a bit pricey.
Beware of locally obtained water ballast unless boiled first. The
effects on your boats innards can be catastophic.
> I cannot find a supplier of water ballast in any of my catalogs.me?
> Does anyone have some water ballast they would be willing to sell
Mike, for casual boating I use Poland Springs water ballast. For
those special trips Perrier ballast is wonderful but a bit pricey.
Beware of locally obtained water ballast unless boiled first. The
effects on your boats innards can be catastophic.
Mike,
Look into getting a kit to make your own water ballast. I would
definately use one with a 2:1 mix, and get the pumps to measure
exactly. The big question is, "Which brand of water ballast kit is
better than another?"
David Jost
Look into getting a kit to make your own water ballast. I would
definately use one with a 2:1 mix, and get the pumps to measure
exactly. The big question is, "Which brand of water ballast kit is
better than another?"
David Jost
>
> Thanks.
>
> Mike
--- In bolger@y..., mkstocks@b... wrote:
dehydrated water ballast- the shipping is cheaper.
> Hi -me?
>
> I cannot find a supplier of water ballast in any of my catalogs.
> Does anyone have some water ballast they would be willing to sell
>If you are going to have it shipped, buy the
> Thanks.
>
> Mike
dehydrated water ballast- the shipping is cheaper.
I have some. It's out back next to the jet wash, connected to the sky
hook with flight line.
hook with flight line.
--- In bolger@y..., mkstocks@b... wrote:
> Hi -
>
> I cannot find a supplier of water ballast in any of my catalogs.
> Does anyone have some water ballast they would be willing to sell
me?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Mike
Just use the leftovers after you fill your lake.
--- In bolger@y..., mkstocks@b... wrote:
> Hi -
>
> I cannot find a supplier of water ballast in any of my catalogs.
> Does anyone have some water ballast they would be willing to sell
me?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Mike
Hi -
I cannot find a supplier of water ballast in any of my catalogs.
Does anyone have some water ballast they would be willing to sell me?
Thanks.
Mike
I cannot find a supplier of water ballast in any of my catalogs.
Does anyone have some water ballast they would be willing to sell me?
Thanks.
Mike