Re: save my friend
I guess I'll throw my 2 cents worth in.
Kind of surprized by all the positive replies about a cheap glass
sailboat.
If he doesn't want the time and effort involved in building
a boat, and is just looking for an inexpensive sailboat
in that range, he might want to look at one of the older
MacGregor's (25s I think)
He could pick one up for a lot less than the 26 Power Sailer.
The older ones look pretty good, and are easy to rig and sail,
and are fairly fast under sail. A lot of sailboat for the money.
Also a little more draft, but still "Beachable".
Wouldn't be able to waterski, but could pull around some "Tubers"
Not going to do much serious skiing behind the 26 anyway.
They have depreciated about as much as they are going to,
so he could buy one cheap, and sell it for what he paid for
it if he didn't like it.
Also would not have to deal with "Water Balast" and the expense
of a big outboard.
Pat Patteson
Molalla, Oregon
Kind of surprized by all the positive replies about a cheap glass
sailboat.
If he doesn't want the time and effort involved in building
a boat, and is just looking for an inexpensive sailboat
in that range, he might want to look at one of the older
MacGregor's (25s I think)
He could pick one up for a lot less than the 26 Power Sailer.
The older ones look pretty good, and are easy to rig and sail,
and are fairly fast under sail. A lot of sailboat for the money.
Also a little more draft, but still "Beachable".
Wouldn't be able to waterski, but could pull around some "Tubers"
Not going to do much serious skiing behind the 26 anyway.
They have depreciated about as much as they are going to,
so he could buy one cheap, and sell it for what he paid for
it if he didn't like it.
Also would not have to deal with "Water Balast" and the expense
of a big outboard.
Pat Patteson
Molalla, Oregon
--- In bolger@y..., "Lincoln Ross" <lincolnr@m...> wrote:
> My friend (no, not me, really) is getting sailing obsessed, even
> though he doesn't really know what he's doing yet. He's starting to
> get sucked in by the vortex created by the MacGregor 26. Right now
he
> has a fiberglass Buccaneer (16' centerboard sloop, or is it 18').
>
> He said he may want to do weekend cruises, not terrify his kids
(they
> are scared of the Buccaneer), have room for the kids to mess around
> when they get sick of sailing, needs something a little more
> seaworthy, and (this goal may be abandoned) waterskiing!
>
> I think, given his stated goals, and dropping the waterskiing, that
he
> might be better off with something between Birdwatcher and
> Whalewatcher, but I don't know what this sort of boat costs when
built
> by someone else. Is there a boat like this in between Birdwatcher
and
> Whalewatcher? Likely bucks?
--- In bolger@y..., <lgbarker@i...> wrote:
Bob,
My boat has become a family/neighborhood project. The kids love
to help, and they are learning math as well. Some of them also
understand why the metric system is so much easier!
If the family does not like Micro, then we will sell her and build
something else!
David Jost
One other thing on the MacGreagor26, Practical Sailor had a good write up
about the boat. Maximum interior for size, speed under power, light trailer
weight, and best of all, they where somewhat impressed with it sailing.
They thought the rigging was a bit light but there are no reports of it
failing and some MacCreagor 26 owners have had them out in really nasty
stuff off shore though they are built for somewhat protected waters.
Can't be all bad. Your right about it looking a bit like a Bolger Box.
Jeff
about the boat. Maximum interior for size, speed under power, light trailer
weight, and best of all, they where somewhat impressed with it sailing.
They thought the rigging was a bit light but there are no reports of it
failing and some MacCreagor 26 owners have had them out in really nasty
stuff off shore though they are built for somewhat protected waters.
Can't be all bad. Your right about it looking a bit like a Bolger Box.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Surface" <msurface@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: save my friend (from a MacGregor 26)
>
>
>
> >From:pvanderw@...
> >
> >The current version MacGregor seems to me to be about the least
> >attractive of all the boats the gentleman ever built. So, what do I
> >know...
>
> The present MacGregor IMHO is very Bolger-like. The cross-section of a
Mac
> 26X is very square. The design used water ballast which has been used and
> supported by Bolger. The MacGregor has a very shallow draft (only 9")
with
> the center board up. The overall design of the MacGregor is the maximum
for
> the minimum, which could be said about a lot of Bolger's designs. The
cost
> with out outboard of $15,990 but with trailer and sails makes it one of
the
> least expensive boats for it's size available. If any of you have read
the
> Wooden Boat article on shallow draft boat it could almost be used as an
> advertisement for the Macgregor. Lastly most people ("right thinking" to
> quote Bolger) find his designs to be more that a little bit strange.
>
> Michael Surface
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>
>
>From:pvanderw@...The present MacGregor IMHO is very Bolger-like. The cross-section of a Mac
>
>The current version MacGregor seems to me to be about the least
>attractive of all the boats the gentleman ever built. So, what do I
>know...
26X is very square. The design used water ballast which has been used and
supported by Bolger. The MacGregor has a very shallow draft (only 9") with
the center board up. The overall design of the MacGregor is the maximum for
the minimum, which could be said about a lot of Bolger's designs. The cost
with out outboard of $15,990 but with trailer and sails makes it one of the
least expensive boats for it's size available. If any of you have read the
Wooden Boat article on shallow draft boat it could almost be used as an
advertisement for the Macgregor. Lastly most people ("right thinking" to
quote Bolger) find his designs to be more that a little bit strange.
Michael Surface
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
I have a buddy who owns a 2 year old Macgregor 26X with a 50 hp
Evinrude (Suzuki) 4-stroke outboard. The bottom of the boat is very
flat and is easy to beach. I don't know the exact draft but it's not
much. With the ballast tanks empty the boat can hit close to 20 mph.
I'm not real impressed with the sailing performance, the water
ballast doesn't seem to provide enough stability. I noticed the same
thing on my sister-in-law's Catalina 250. The cabin of the Mac is
very roomy and our kids like it. For a newcomer to sailing it seems
to me that a fiberglass boat makes a lot of sense; it is a lot easier
to find a decent fiberglass boat than plywood.
Mike
Evinrude (Suzuki) 4-stroke outboard. The bottom of the boat is very
flat and is easy to beach. I don't know the exact draft but it's not
much. With the ballast tanks empty the boat can hit close to 20 mph.
I'm not real impressed with the sailing performance, the water
ballast doesn't seem to provide enough stability. I noticed the same
thing on my sister-in-law's Catalina 250. The cabin of the Mac is
very roomy and our kids like it. For a newcomer to sailing it seems
to me that a fiberglass boat makes a lot of sense; it is a lot easier
to find a decent fiberglass boat than plywood.
Mike
Yup, you're probably right. But his kids already prefer our Brick to
his Buccaneer! And something built by him was never an option, not
even a Brick. The real problem is to get his wife to consent to
turning her yard into a boat yard (she actually likes the sailing
part, just not the large lawn ornament part).
his Buccaneer! And something built by him was never an option, not
even a Brick. The real problem is to get his wife to consent to
turning her yard into a boat yard (she actually likes the sailing
part, just not the large lawn ornament part).
--- In bolger@y..., <lgbarker@i...> wrote:
> Bob's got it right. We started w/ a Mac26 - the older
> sailboat version - and did up to 4 week trips with our
> 2 boys. Those were some of the best times we had,
> clorox bottle boat or not. Sold it for a bigger boat
> which, in turn, was sold when we left the deep water.
> As much as *I* like Bolger and wood, my kids wanted
> something that was already built. And *they* would
> have loved the fast little 26x (glad we didn't have to
> make that choice).
> Larry
>
> Quoting cha62759@t...:
> >
> > Hi, Your friend doesn't need saving. What he
> > wants is what fulfills
> > his needs as he sees them. Bolger boxes are
> > ideological. If he finds
> > the McGregor is what he needs and his frame of
> > reference is fiberglass
> > boats then that is exactly what he should get.
> > He is at the beginning
> > of a long line of boats and he will eventually
> > get where he wants to
> > be.
> >
> > Bob Chamberland
Bob's got it right. We started w/ a Mac26 - the older
sailboat version - and did up to 4 week trips with our
2 boys. Those were some of the best times we had,
clorox bottle boat or not. Sold it for a bigger boat
which, in turn, was sold when we left the deep water.
As much as *I* like Bolger and wood, my kids wanted
something that was already built. And *they* would
have loved the fast little 26x (glad we didn't have to
make that choice).
Larry
Quotingcha62759@...:
sailboat version - and did up to 4 week trips with our
2 boys. Those were some of the best times we had,
clorox bottle boat or not. Sold it for a bigger boat
which, in turn, was sold when we left the deep water.
As much as *I* like Bolger and wood, my kids wanted
something that was already built. And *they* would
have loved the fast little 26x (glad we didn't have to
make that choice).
Larry
Quotingcha62759@...:
>
> Hi, Your friend doesn't need saving. What he
> wants is what fulfills
> his needs as he sees them. Bolger boxes are
> ideological. If he finds
> the McGregor is what he needs and his frame of
> reference is fiberglass
> boats then that is exactly what he should get.
> He is at the beginning
> of a long line of boats and he will eventually
> get where he wants to
> be.
>
> Bob Chamberland
--- In bolger@y..., "Lincoln Ross" <lincolnr@m...> wrote:
his needs as he sees them. Bolger boxes are ideological. If he finds
the McGregor is what he needs and his frame of reference is fiberglass
boats then that is exactly what he should get. He is at the beginning
of a long line of boats and he will eventually get where he wants to
be.
Bob Chamberland
> My friend (no, not me, really) is getting sailing obsessed, evenhe
> though he doesn't really know what he's doing yet. He's starting to
> get sucked in by the vortex created by the MacGregor 26. Right now
> has a fiberglass Buccaneer (16' centerboard sloop, or is it 18').(they
>
> He said he may want to do weekend cruises, not terrify his kids
> are scared of the Buccaneer), have room for the kids to mess aroundhe
> when they get sick of sailing, needs something a little more
> seaworthy, and (this goal may be abandoned) waterskiing!
>
> I think, given his stated goals, and dropping the waterskiing, that
> might be better off with something between Birdwatcher andbuilt
> Whalewatcher, but I don't know what this sort of boat costs when
> by someone else. Is there a boat like this in between Birdwatcherand
> Whalewatcher? Likely bucks?Hi, Your friend doesn't need saving. What he wants is what fulfills
his needs as he sees them. Bolger boxes are ideological. If he finds
the McGregor is what he needs and his frame of reference is fiberglass
boats then that is exactly what he should get. He is at the beginning
of a long line of boats and he will eventually get where he wants to
be.
Bob Chamberland
Oh, I forgot to mention it: he wants to trailer it! Looks like he's
fated to be stuck with the MacGregor!
But I forgot, Red Zinger is for sale!
ANd then I forgot: it's a wooden boat.
fated to be stuck with the MacGregor!
But I forgot, Red Zinger is for sale!
ANd then I forgot: it's a wooden boat.
--- In bolger@y..., pvanderw@o... wrote:
>
> The current version MacGregor seems to me to be about the least
> attractive of all the boats the gentleman ever built. So, what do I
> know.... And are the Catalina 250 and the Hunter (whatever size) any
> better?
>
> Are there any really good choices? By in large, the manufacturers
> have abandoned cabin boats less than 30 feet except for these
> improbable "trailer" boats. Most of the decent boats are older
> designs. I like my Capri 22 quite a lot but it is not really set up
> for family overnights with the head under the v-berth and no cooking
> facilities at all.
>
> My guess is that it would cost about $50,000 to get a pro to build a
> 25' ply boat. I'm not sure what Bolger design would be most
> comparable to a MacGregor. Perhaps a Jochems schooner, or the fast
> motorsailer. I would guess that it would be easier to talk your
> friend into a used fiberglass boat. I would suggest a bare bones
> model from a good builder, like the S2 8.0.
>
> Peter
The current version MacGregor seems to me to be about the least
attractive of all the boats the gentleman ever built. So, what do I
know.... And are the Catalina 250 and the Hunter (whatever size) any
better?
Are there any really good choices? By in large, the manufacturers
have abandoned cabin boats less than 30 feet except for these
improbable "trailer" boats. Most of the decent boats are older
designs. I like my Capri 22 quite a lot but it is not really set up
for family overnights with the head under the v-berth and no cooking
facilities at all.
My guess is that it would cost about $50,000 to get a pro to build a
25' ply boat. I'm not sure what Bolger design would be most
comparable to a MacGregor. Perhaps a Jochems schooner, or the fast
motorsailer. I would guess that it would be easier to talk your
friend into a used fiberglass boat. I would suggest a bare bones
model from a good builder, like the S2 8.0.
Peter
attractive of all the boats the gentleman ever built. So, what do I
know.... And are the Catalina 250 and the Hunter (whatever size) any
better?
Are there any really good choices? By in large, the manufacturers
have abandoned cabin boats less than 30 feet except for these
improbable "trailer" boats. Most of the decent boats are older
designs. I like my Capri 22 quite a lot but it is not really set up
for family overnights with the head under the v-berth and no cooking
facilities at all.
My guess is that it would cost about $50,000 to get a pro to build a
25' ply boat. I'm not sure what Bolger design would be most
comparable to a MacGregor. Perhaps a Jochems schooner, or the fast
motorsailer. I would guess that it would be easier to talk your
friend into a used fiberglass boat. I would suggest a bare bones
model from a good builder, like the S2 8.0.
Peter
I said "built by someone else" and I meant it. I know this guy doesn't
want to build one. Although it bothers him, he's truly bought into the
whole consumer trip. I was inquiring what they cost when built by
someone else.
The thing I didn't like about the MacGregor (besides that it looks
like a plastic bug and you can't tell which boat in the anchorage is
yours) is that it forces everyone into the rear cockpit if they want
to be able to look around.
It's actually pretty shoal draft.
But you may be right.
BTW, I consider the Buccaneer pretty close to orthodoxy. No oars, for
one thing.
want to build one. Although it bothers him, he's truly bought into the
whole consumer trip. I was inquiring what they cost when built by
someone else.
The thing I didn't like about the MacGregor (besides that it looks
like a plastic bug and you can't tell which boat in the anchorage is
yours) is that it forces everyone into the rear cockpit if they want
to be able to look around.
It's actually pretty shoal draft.
But you may be right.
BTW, I consider the Buccaneer pretty close to orthodoxy. No oars, for
one thing.
--- In bolger@y..., Chris Crandall <crandall@u...> wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Sep 2001, Lincoln Ross wrote:
> > He said he may want to do weekend cruises, not terrify his kids
(they
> > are scared of the Buccaneer), have room for the kids to mess
around
> > when they get sick of sailing, needs something a little more
> > seaworthy, and (this goal may be abandoned) waterskiing!
> >
> > I think, given his stated goals, and dropping the waterskiing,
that he
> > might be better off with something between Birdwatcher and
> > Whalewatcher, but I don't know what this sort of boat costs when
built
> > by someone else. Is there a boat like this in between Birdwatcher
and
> > Whalewatcher? Likely bucks?
>
> I stronlgy recommend the MacGregor 26 to him. I don't know if this
is one
> of those planing/sailing hybrids, but it will be much cheaper and
faster
> for him to get into a used MacGregor than to build a Birdwatcher of
> Whalewatcher.
>
> In addition, the self-rescuing ability of the Birdwatcher depends
upon
> going over 90 degree, and then heeling back--taking a pretty good
peek
> into the murky depths first. That, and no roof over one's head.
They
> have a nice cabin, if you cannot compare to other, finer craft.
>
> Plus, the guy's a neophyte. I strongly recommend orthodoxy first
for this
> guy's family. Then, he can acquire the desire for true shoal draft
in a
> hand-built craft.
On Mon, 10 Sep 2001, Lincoln Ross wrote:
of those planing/sailing hybrids, but it will be much cheaper and faster
for him to get into a used MacGregor than to build a Birdwatcher of
Whalewatcher.
In addition, the self-rescuing ability of the Birdwatcher depends upon
going over 90 degree, and then heeling back--taking a pretty good peek
into the murky depths first. That, and no roof over one's head. They
have a nice cabin, if you cannot compare to other, finer craft.
Plus, the guy's a neophyte. I strongly recommend orthodoxy first for this
guy's family. Then, he can acquire the desire for true shoal draft in a
hand-built craft.
> He said he may want to do weekend cruises, not terrify his kids (theyI stronlgy recommend the MacGregor 26 to him. I don't know if this is one
> are scared of the Buccaneer), have room for the kids to mess around
> when they get sick of sailing, needs something a little more
> seaworthy, and (this goal may be abandoned) waterskiing!
>
> I think, given his stated goals, and dropping the waterskiing, that he
> might be better off with something between Birdwatcher and
> Whalewatcher, but I don't know what this sort of boat costs when built
> by someone else. Is there a boat like this in between Birdwatcher and
> Whalewatcher? Likely bucks?
of those planing/sailing hybrids, but it will be much cheaper and faster
for him to get into a used MacGregor than to build a Birdwatcher of
Whalewatcher.
In addition, the self-rescuing ability of the Birdwatcher depends upon
going over 90 degree, and then heeling back--taking a pretty good peek
into the murky depths first. That, and no roof over one's head. They
have a nice cabin, if you cannot compare to other, finer craft.
Plus, the guy's a neophyte. I strongly recommend orthodoxy first for this
guy's family. Then, he can acquire the desire for true shoal draft in a
hand-built craft.
Hi -
I had a MacGregor 26x (that is what they called it then) before I
built my Martha Jane, and liked it very much. Here is my write-up on
it:
http://mkstocks.tripod.com/boats/macgregor/index.htm
He might be best off with a Jochems Schooner for the sailing /
camping / family thing, and to tow a Skimmer to let the kids pull
water toys, etc.
Mike
I had a MacGregor 26x (that is what they called it then) before I
built my Martha Jane, and liked it very much. Here is my write-up on
it:
http://mkstocks.tripod.com/boats/macgregor/index.htm
He might be best off with a Jochems Schooner for the sailing /
camping / family thing, and to tow a Skimmer to let the kids pull
water toys, etc.
Mike
--- In bolger@y..., "Lincoln Ross" <lincolnr@m...> wrote:
> My friend (no, not me, really) is getting sailing obsessed, even
> though he doesn't really know what he's doing yet. He's starting to
> get sucked in by the vortex created by the MacGregor 26. Right now
he
My friend (no, not me, really) is getting sailing obsessed, even
though he doesn't really know what he's doing yet. He's starting to
get sucked in by the vortex created by the MacGregor 26. Right now he
has a fiberglass Buccaneer (16' centerboard sloop, or is it 18').
He said he may want to do weekend cruises, not terrify his kids (they
are scared of the Buccaneer), have room for the kids to mess around
when they get sick of sailing, needs something a little more
seaworthy, and (this goal may be abandoned) waterskiing!
I think, given his stated goals, and dropping the waterskiing, that he
might be better off with something between Birdwatcher and
Whalewatcher, but I don't know what this sort of boat costs when built
by someone else. Is there a boat like this in between Birdwatcher and
Whalewatcher? Likely bucks?
though he doesn't really know what he's doing yet. He's starting to
get sucked in by the vortex created by the MacGregor 26. Right now he
has a fiberglass Buccaneer (16' centerboard sloop, or is it 18').
He said he may want to do weekend cruises, not terrify his kids (they
are scared of the Buccaneer), have room for the kids to mess around
when they get sick of sailing, needs something a little more
seaworthy, and (this goal may be abandoned) waterskiing!
I think, given his stated goals, and dropping the waterskiing, that he
might be better off with something between Birdwatcher and
Whalewatcher, but I don't know what this sort of boat costs when built
by someone else. Is there a boat like this in between Birdwatcher and
Whalewatcher? Likely bucks?