Re: McGregor
Many on the list know my story, but I wrestled with the
sail/power/speed/aesthetic tradeoffs for a year or so before undertaking my
20 foot outboard cruiser. Having gone through several auxiliary sailboats,
I was sure I wanted more speed than they could offer. I always thought the
"last boat" would be a multihull, but I came to realize that a multihull for
couple-cruising would require a marina slip or waterfront property to be
practical (or perhaps $35-$50k for a Farrier foldingmaran).
So I arrived at the same place as Kilburn Adams and his Skiff America 20: a
moderate-horsepower outboard cruiser with weekender or perhaps 2-week
cruising range. I have to relegate my sailing to dinghies (not a bad
tradeoff, they are just as much fun as cruisers), otherwise all my boating
activities are covered: fishing, camping, messabouts, moonlight cruises,
short jaunts "away", entertaining children/grandchildren, etc. The skiff
can be cruised like a fast sailboat with minimal noise (sailboats spend a
LOT of time motoring, even though they are not very good at it). If the
destination is far or the time is short, I can cruise at 20+ mph but
conversation is limited. If this kind of speed is not desired, it is hard
to beat the quiet and economy of the modern 9.9 hp 4-strokes on an 18-22
foot displacement cruiser. You can still double the speed made good of a
sailboat and the cost is not far out of line. Easy trailering is another
huge plus - I covered 1500 miles in March (1400 on the trailer, 100 on the
water in the Florida Keys).
I was not slamming the McGregor - it is not my cup of tea because it gives
too much over to sailing without really being a satisfactory sailboat
(aesthetically and structurally) and it certainly isn't optimized for
motoring. The concept is appealing, and maybe I shouldn't even comment
since I have not been aboard one. Suffice to say: Give moderate-power
boating some consideration, it serves a lot of purposes...
Don Hodges
www.ECoastLife.com
Your Emerald Coast Cyber-Vacation
Small-Boat Building, Fishing, Cruising
UPDATED Opinion on Local Issues
sail/power/speed/aesthetic tradeoffs for a year or so before undertaking my
20 foot outboard cruiser. Having gone through several auxiliary sailboats,
I was sure I wanted more speed than they could offer. I always thought the
"last boat" would be a multihull, but I came to realize that a multihull for
couple-cruising would require a marina slip or waterfront property to be
practical (or perhaps $35-$50k for a Farrier foldingmaran).
So I arrived at the same place as Kilburn Adams and his Skiff America 20: a
moderate-horsepower outboard cruiser with weekender or perhaps 2-week
cruising range. I have to relegate my sailing to dinghies (not a bad
tradeoff, they are just as much fun as cruisers), otherwise all my boating
activities are covered: fishing, camping, messabouts, moonlight cruises,
short jaunts "away", entertaining children/grandchildren, etc. The skiff
can be cruised like a fast sailboat with minimal noise (sailboats spend a
LOT of time motoring, even though they are not very good at it). If the
destination is far or the time is short, I can cruise at 20+ mph but
conversation is limited. If this kind of speed is not desired, it is hard
to beat the quiet and economy of the modern 9.9 hp 4-strokes on an 18-22
foot displacement cruiser. You can still double the speed made good of a
sailboat and the cost is not far out of line. Easy trailering is another
huge plus - I covered 1500 miles in March (1400 on the trailer, 100 on the
water in the Florida Keys).
I was not slamming the McGregor - it is not my cup of tea because it gives
too much over to sailing without really being a satisfactory sailboat
(aesthetically and structurally) and it certainly isn't optimized for
motoring. The concept is appealing, and maybe I shouldn't even comment
since I have not been aboard one. Suffice to say: Give moderate-power
boating some consideration, it serves a lot of purposes...
Don Hodges
www.ECoastLife.com
Your Emerald Coast Cyber-Vacation
Small-Boat Building, Fishing, Cruising
UPDATED Opinion on Local Issues
> Does anyoneHere is another Bolger idea, also unproven as far as I know. In "The
> know of any other designs that say they have this combination of
> sailing and fast power performance?
Folding Schooner" there is a 25'10" Economy Motorsailer. It is
basically a small light semi-displacement power cruiser with an add-
on spritsail sloop rig, leeboard and sailing rudder. It is a soft
bilge model for strip contstruction. It always looked to me like a
great boat for the Intracoastal Waterway.
Just for confusion, one of the drawings appears in the prior chapter
of the book.
Of course, there is the original fast motorsailor which has only a
small cuddy.
In writing about designs after trials, Bolger frequently mentions two
things: adding hp to power boats and ballast to sailboats. In some
ways, the latter is the same as the former. I think that this is due
to optimism on the one hand, and a personal preference for economy
over outstanding performance.
Peter
First let me extend my sorrow and condolences to our American friends
for the horrible events of the past days.
Well, I'll come out of the closet and admit it: I too have liked the
McGregor for a long time. Certainly not for it looks: it is the most
chloroxy of the chlorox bottle type. But I love the idea of a decent
sailor that can also motor at a high speed. This opens up so many
cruising possibilities, particularly on the weekend.
I even went so far as to begin building the Bolger Fast Motorsailor,
a project I had to abandon when I moved to Norway. I hadn't gotten
too far with it anyways. I am aware of two Fast Motorsailors that
have been built, and neither has built the sailing rig, and both use
quite powerful motors, 75-125 hp, certainly not the 35 hp Bolger
recommended. I think Bolger may have been a bit optimistic on his
expectations for the power performance of this boat. In any case, it
seems to me now that it is more of a powerboat than a sailboat, and
its sailing performance is in any case untested.
The only other homebuilt possibility that I know of in this category
is Michalak's Petesboat, a Birdwatcher-type which I think had planing
performance with a 60 hp. But it is (how else to put it?) truly an
ugly boat, and I don't know how it performed under sail.
I would be very interested in building a boat with these
capabilities, but what are the design challenges involved? How does
the 26X get around the problem of dragging around that big chopped
off transom which appears to extend below the waterline? This appears
to be the biggest problem to me: how do you get planing performance,
which usually requires a wide, flat after section, and sailing
performance, which often seems to require the opposite? Does anyone
know of any other designs that say they have this combination of
sailing and fast power performance?
Best regards,
Daniel Pike
dan.pike@...
Tromso, Norway.
for the horrible events of the past days.
Well, I'll come out of the closet and admit it: I too have liked the
McGregor for a long time. Certainly not for it looks: it is the most
chloroxy of the chlorox bottle type. But I love the idea of a decent
sailor that can also motor at a high speed. This opens up so many
cruising possibilities, particularly on the weekend.
I even went so far as to begin building the Bolger Fast Motorsailor,
a project I had to abandon when I moved to Norway. I hadn't gotten
too far with it anyways. I am aware of two Fast Motorsailors that
have been built, and neither has built the sailing rig, and both use
quite powerful motors, 75-125 hp, certainly not the 35 hp Bolger
recommended. I think Bolger may have been a bit optimistic on his
expectations for the power performance of this boat. In any case, it
seems to me now that it is more of a powerboat than a sailboat, and
its sailing performance is in any case untested.
The only other homebuilt possibility that I know of in this category
is Michalak's Petesboat, a Birdwatcher-type which I think had planing
performance with a 60 hp. But it is (how else to put it?) truly an
ugly boat, and I don't know how it performed under sail.
I would be very interested in building a boat with these
capabilities, but what are the design challenges involved? How does
the 26X get around the problem of dragging around that big chopped
off transom which appears to extend below the waterline? This appears
to be the biggest problem to me: how do you get planing performance,
which usually requires a wide, flat after section, and sailing
performance, which often seems to require the opposite? Does anyone
know of any other designs that say they have this combination of
sailing and fast power performance?
Best regards,
Daniel Pike
dan.pike@...
Tromso, Norway.
--- In bolger@y..., pvanderw@o... wrote:
> > Oh, my! We have worked our way around to endorsing the ultimate
> > mass-production moldcraft (pretty persuasive arguments, too).
>
> I think the point of commonality is out-of-the-box thinking. There
> aren't many who have tried to combine fast motor performance with
> sailing performance. Lancer, MacGreagor, Bolger....
>
> PHV
> Oh, my! We have worked our way around to endorsing the ultimateI think the point of commonality is out-of-the-box thinking. There
> mass-production moldcraft (pretty persuasive arguments, too).
aren't many who have tried to combine fast motor performance with
sailing performance. Lancer, MacGreagor, Bolger....
PHV
Oh, my! We have worked our way around to endorsing the ultimate
mass-production moldcraft (pretty persuasive arguments, too). We only left
out the obvious to meet the waterski requirement - surely in 26 feet we can
find a place to hoist on a personal watercraft or two (waterskiing seems
passe in these parts).
tongue firmly in cheek,
Don Hodges
who lusted after a Venture 17 for years, but sudden "prosperity" brought on
a Columbia 26 in 1970... except for scantlings not far from the Mac26 come
to think of it
mass-production moldcraft (pretty persuasive arguments, too). We only left
out the obvious to meet the waterski requirement - surely in 26 feet we can
find a place to hoist on a personal watercraft or two (waterskiing seems
passe in these parts).
tongue firmly in cheek,
Don Hodges
who lusted after a Venture 17 for years, but sudden "prosperity" brought on
a Columbia 26 in 1970... except for scantlings not far from the Mac26 come
to think of it