Re: [bolger] Re: Tool fetishists . . .

I definetly don't think of myself as a minimilist. I
certainly am not inspired by Norm Abrams, except at
times where he is an expert: House construction. Of
course, anyone who makes tons of furniture is bound to
pick up something along the way, but it was painful
watching him at first.

I like David Pye's distinction of work of risk, and
work of certainty (or words to that effect). The idea
being that the skill, creative potential etc... often
arise from work like carving, shaping etc... where the
outcome is not know, vs work of certainty like ripping
a board in a tablesaw, where aside from the odd lost
thumb, the outcome is assured. This kind of
distinction doesn't favour either power or hand tools,
a plane can be absolutely risk free, or not, while a
bandsaw or a disk grinder are classic risk tools often
used in stuff like sculpting or chairmaking.

I like the idea of minimilism, but it fell short for
me when production reared its head. A kayak might
weigh 40 pounds, and a 20+ foot boat (net ballast)
might weigh 800. In a production setting you can't
afford the luxury of spending a year to build a boat
that should take only a day. And that isn't always
good news, but its a fact of life.

What boats can be built in a day, by one person?: An
modern Ama for a 40 foot trimaran (various); A
houseboat (the boat part, by sam devlin that might
have been a weekend); A fully functioning canoe/plug
marathon boat prototype, It could be paddled, and it
could be sold as a plug for a new production boat
(Eugene Jensen apparently whenever he got a new idea).

--- In bolger@y..., William Samson
<willsamson@y...> wrote:

> Dear me, 
> 
> Seems Norm Abrams is the role model for most of

you US

> guys. 
> 
> Aren't there any minimalists on your side of the

Pond?

> 
> What about a Japanese razor saw? Low angle

block

> plane? I was talking to a German plywood

kayak

> builder the other week, whose entire toolkit fits

in a

> baggie about 1' long by 8" diameter.

He can take it

> anywhere he goes and do professional quality

repairs

> on the spot. 
> 
> When I built my Chebacco the only power tool I

used

> was a random-orbit sander, AND I don't think it

slowed

> me down much, if any. Just try a good sharp

hand saw

> on 1/2" ply - You'll get through it in less

time than

> it takes to find your extension lead! An

added bonus

> is that Japanese pull-saws don't rip up the

surface

> veneer, so you save a lot of time that would be

spent

> trimming the sawed edges. 
> 
> As for Norm - Did you notice that after he'd

finished

> the woodwork of his Clancy he said "Now we

take it to

> the paintshop". I doubt if even the

most geeky of us

> has a separate paintshop! 
> 
> Anyway - whatever turns you on . . . 
> 
> Cheers, 
> 
> Bill 
> 
>

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- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
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- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
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I disagree, most people can only dream of having the time to do anything like building a boat or
having a quaint backyard garden, etc. etc., so they live vicariously off the idiot box. (i own a tv,
but it doesn't get any channels, so i am special :-)

the fact is most people do have the time to build a boat, they just are not motivated to deviate from
the norm :-)
Richard

<Norm Abrams is definitely part of what's wrong with America. Unspoken
message is "you can't do this without a shop full of tools, so just
watch me instead".>

who are these people? Norm Abrams? who is that? he must be on thart there tv box...... power
tools are great, they allow you to make far more MPH (mistakes per hour).
:-)
Richard

--- In bolger@y..., William Samson <willsamson@y...> wrote:
> Dear me,
>
> Seems Norm Abrams is the role model for most of you US
> guys.
>
> Aren't there any minimalists on your side of the Pond?

Not everyone on this side of the pond is like Norm. I am not exactly
a minimalist, but only own a few handheld power tools and no bench
mounted power tools (except a modelmaker's lathe and 1" belt sander,
but neither of those is used directly in my boat building).

Pete

I'm a little spoiled on the tool issue, because when I made some
furniture, I had access to all sorts of tools. For stitch and glue
boatbuilding, tho, I don't miss them.

In the US, we seem to have a real genius for making things fancier and
more expensive. I've recently become interested in RC sailing, and the
cost of premade stuff is appalling. Fortunately, it doesn't look like
it's all that expensive if you do it yourself. THinking of thumbing my
nose at everyone by using a Bolger sharpie shape for the hull, tho I
think I may have to put a lot of work into the foils and bulb.

--- In bolger@y..., pvanderw@o... wrote:
> >These were from before sponsorship became such a key element of
> > the show, which I think has really degraded the overall tone. I've
> noticed
> > in some not-so-old episodes that he has duct tape over all
> nameplates of
> > certain brands of tools, but not over others (the sponsor's)....
>
> The same phenomenon has ruined any number of boating magazines, most
> notably Yachting.
>
> PHV

> Yeah, a Clancy.

I'm just guessing, but he probably chose the Clancy as a design for
the same reason that he chooses his tools: promotional
considerations. (Not to say, payola.)

The Clancy has always seemed to me to be an unremarkable boat with
remarkable promotion.

PHV

Yeah, a Clancy. If it ever sees ANY humidity, it'll rot in a heartbeat
(cheap pine, uncoated, unreachable). Ouch.

David Romasco

-----Original Message-----
From:bgbeck55@...[mailto:bgbeck55@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 3:01 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Tool fetishists . . .

Norm does seem to have a tool for every occasion. It would cost
less to buy the antique prototype than to buy all the tools involved
in constructing a copy.
My wife says that the only tool he doesn't have, is one to pick
his nose for him. We've been waiting for that one to show up. We
refer to it as "Norm's Boogah Pickah".
I see I'm not alone in wishing he'd do projects involving fewer
specialized tools. He did build a boat once. Some kind of sailboat as
I remember.
Bruce

- In bolger@y..., "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@w...> wrote:

> I've seen reruns of a couple of very early episodes of Norm's where

> showed how to build things using only hand tools the typical

household

> handyman might have - a circular saw, drill, hammer, low-angle

block plane,

> and sanding block, and not much else. He showed some nice tricks

for doing

> precision work with the 'minimum' (granted, everybody's minimum is
> different!). These were from before sponsorship became such a key

element of

> the show, which I think has really degraded the overall tone. I've

noticed

> in some not-so-old episodes that he has duct tape over all

nameplates of

> certain brands of tools, but not over others (the sponsor's)....
>
> Paul L.
> >

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Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Norm does seem to have a tool for every occasion. It would cost
less to buy the antique prototype than to buy all the tools involved
in constructing a copy.
My wife says that the only tool he doesn't have, is one to pick
his nose for him. We've been waiting for that one to show up. We
refer to it as "Norm's Boogah Pickah".
I see I'm not alone in wishing he'd do projects involving fewer
specialized tools. He did build a boat once. Some kind of sailboat as
I remember.
Bruce

- In bolger@y..., "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@w...> wrote:

> I've seen reruns of a couple of very early episodes of Norm's where

> showed how to build things using only hand tools the typical

household

> handyman might have - a circular saw, drill, hammer, low-angle

block plane,

> and sanding block, and not much else. He showed some nice tricks

for doing

> precision work with the 'minimum' (granted, everybody's minimum is
> different!). These were from before sponsorship became such a key

element of

> the show, which I think has really degraded the overall tone. I've

noticed

> in some not-so-old episodes that he has duct tape over all

nameplates of

> certain brands of tools, but not over others (the sponsor's)....
>
> Paul L.
> >

>These were from before sponsorship became such a key element of
> the show, which I think has really degraded the overall tone. I've

noticed

> in some not-so-old episodes that he has duct tape over all

nameplates of

> certain brands of tools, but not over others (the sponsor's)....

The same phenomenon has ruined any number of boating magazines, most
notably Yachting.

PHV

I've seen reruns of a couple of very early episodes of Norm's where he
showed how to build things using only hand tools the typical household
handyman might have - a circular saw, drill, hammer, low-angle block plane,
and sanding block, and not much else. He showed some nice tricks for doing
precision work with the 'minimum' (granted, everybody's minimum is
different!). These were from before sponsorship became such a key element of
the show, which I think has really degraded the overall tone. I've noticed
in some not-so-old episodes that he has duct tape over all nameplates of
certain brands of tools, but not over others (the sponsor's)....

Paul L.

>

Norm Abrams is definitely part of what's wrong with America. Unspoken
message is "you can't do this without a shop full of tools, so just
watch me instead".

A friend of mine was bludgeoned by his wife into getting an SUV, even
tho he knows better. She's apparently not a great driver either, so I
guess it's just an accident waiting to happen.

My s.o. isn't totally minimalist, there's no way she'd live in a 4 car
garage with a loft overhead (my dream house). I guess I'm not either
if I want that many square feet. However, she does like small boats.
So far we haven't exceeded 10 feet loa most of the time, tho we have
plans to go to 14' when I get that project done.

As far as power tools go, a circular saw, drill (mostly with sanding
disc), and a sabre saw. Bought them all at used tool store for $15
each or less. Have a japanese pull saw, but no luck with it so far.
Maybe it's a cheap knockoff.

--- In bolger@y..., "johannes gustafsson" <boathead5@y...> wrote:
> Bill,
> Careful what you say about Norm. My sister says he's the sexiest
man
> on television! I'm not sure we want to know what her particular
> fantasies might involve though. But ask your wives what they think.

> Are they "minimalists"?
> -- johannes
>
> --- In bolger@y..., William Samson <willsamson@y...> wrote:
> > Dear me,
> >
> > Seems Norm Abrams is the role model for most of you US
> > guys.
> >
> > Aren't there any minimalists on your side of the Pond?
> >
> > What about a Japanese razor saw? snip
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get your free @... address athttp://mail.yahoo.co.uk
> > or your free @... address athttp://mail.yahoo.ie

Bill,
Careful what you say about Norm. My sister says he's the sexiest man
on television! I'm not sure we want to know what her particular
fantasies might involve though. But ask your wives what they think.
Are they "minimalists"?
-- johannes

--- In bolger@y..., William Samson <willsamson@y...> wrote:
> Dear me,
>
> Seems Norm Abrams is the role model for most of you US
> guys.
>
> Aren't there any minimalists on your side of the Pond?
>
> What about a Japanese razor saw? Low angle block
> plane? I was talking to a German plywood kayak
> builder the other week, whose entire toolkit fits in a
> baggie about 1' long by 8" diameter. He can take it
> anywhere he goes and do professional quality repairs
> on the spot.
>
> When I built my Chebacco the only power tool I used
> was a random-orbit sander, AND I don't think it slowed
> me down much, if any. Just try a good sharp hand saw
> on 1/2" ply - You'll get through it in less time than
> it takes to find your extension lead! An added bonus
> is that Japanese pull-saws don't rip up the surface
> veneer, so you save a lot of time that would be spent
> trimming the sawed edges.
>
> As for Norm - Did you notice that after he'd finished
> the woodwork of his Clancy he said "Now we take it to
> the paintshop". I doubt if even the most geeky of us
> has a separate paintshop!
>
> Anyway - whatever turns you on . . .
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bill
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @... address athttp://mail.yahoo.co.uk
> or your free @... address athttp://mail.yahoo.ie

Oops. I must have combined articles. Here is the other one with the
gear story.

http://popularmechanics.com/automotive/sub_coll_leno/2000/6/jl_calling
_machinists/

Funny, I don't watch the Tonight Show, but I love this guys articles.

Hi Bill,

At the Woodworkers club where I went for the class, there was a
British gentlemen, building a highly detailed steamship from scratch.
Apparently, he is also machining the engine by hand also. One of the
members in our table saw class also does models like this, but he
buys kits, and prebuilt engines. We were all so impressed by the
wokmanship on this boat, and the fact that someone could possibly
machine their own engine! Those British! I think it is a product of
our school systems over here, and emphasis on liberal arts, and
passing tests.

Anyway, Jay Leno (yes the comedian) who writes for Popular Mechanics
magazine wrote a very good article on the loss of trade skills in
America. In the actual printed article he was trying to get a special
type of gear made for the transmission on one of his collectors cars.
In the article, he says most machinery capable of producing this had
long ago been sold overseas. Consequently we have lost the individual
skills necessary to make things ourselves.

Manufacturers have parts made over seas, because the labor rate is
cheaper. There is less demand for machinists, and no emphasis on any
of this in schools. A quick quote from his article:

"People say that General Motors can't engineer a standard
transmission anymore, that they don't have people with those skills
any longer, and they have to farm it out. We're losing these skills,
even exporting them. Even worse, we're no longer developing them. "

Anyway, for a condensed version of the article (which lost the story
on the gear) check out the article titled "Want To Know What's Really
Wrong With This Country?"

http://popularmechanics.com/automotive/sub_coll_leno/1999/3/jl_whats_w
rong/index.phtml

The printed article was really much better though.

--- In bolger@y..., William Samson <willsamson@y...> wrote:
> Dear me,
>
> Seems Norm Abrams is the role model for most of you US
> guys.
>
> Aren't there any minimalists on your side of the Pond?
>
> What about a Japanese razor saw? Low angle block
> plane? I was talking to a German plywood kayak
> builder the other week, whose entire toolkit fits in a
> baggie about 1' long by 8" diameter. He can take it
> anywhere he goes and do professional quality repairs
> on the spot.
>
> When I built my Chebacco the only power tool I used
> was a random-orbit sander, AND I don't think it slowed
> me down much, if any. Just try a good sharp hand saw
> on 1/2" ply - You'll get through it in less time than
> it takes to find your extension lead! An added bonus
> is that Japanese pull-saws don't rip up the surface
> veneer, so you save a lot of time that would be spent
> trimming the sawed edges.
>
> As for Norm - Did you notice that after he'd finished
> the woodwork of his Clancy he said "Now we take it to
> the paintshop". I doubt if even the most geeky of us
> has a separate paintshop!
>
> Anyway - whatever turns you on . . .
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bill
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @... address athttp://mail.yahoo.co.uk
> or your free @... address athttp://mail.yahoo.ie

--- In bolger@y..., William Samson <willsamson@y...> wrote:

> Dear me,
>
> Seems Norm Abrams is the role model for most of you US
> guys.
>
> Aren't there any minimalists on your side of the Pond?

Not everyone on this side of the pond is like Norm. I am not exactly
a minimalist, but only own a few handheld power tools and no bench
mounted power tools (except a modelmaker's lathe and 1" belt sander,
but neither of those is used directly in my boat building).

Pete

Dear me,

Seems Norm Abrams is the role model for most of you US
guys.

Aren't there any minimalists on your side of the Pond?

What about a Japanese razor saw? Low angle block
plane? I was talking to a German plywood kayak
builder the other week, whose entire toolkit fits in a
baggie about 1' long by 8" diameter. He can take it
anywhere he goes and do professional quality repairs
on the spot.

When I built my Chebacco the only power tool I used
was a random-orbit sander, AND I don't think it slowed
me down much, if any. Just try a good sharp hand saw
on 1/2" ply - You'll get through it in less time than
it takes to find your extension lead! An added bonus
is that Japanese pull-saws don't rip up the surface
veneer, so you save a lot of time that would be spent
trimming the sawed edges.

As for Norm - Did you notice that after he'd finished
the woodwork of his Clancy he said "Now we take it to
the paintshop". I doubt if even the most geeky of us
has a separate paintshop!

Anyway - whatever turns you on . . .

Cheers,

Bill

____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @... address athttp://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @... address athttp://mail.yahoo.ie