Re: mixing brass and bronze
There is silicon bronze tubing available. I know it is used for bearings
and stern tubes:
http://www.atlasmetal.com/sb651.htm
Vince
and stern tubes:
http://www.atlasmetal.com/sb651.htm
Vince
--- In bolger@y..., cadbury@s... wrote:
foot tube of 304 SS.
I thought about that, but by the time I pay to have it hot dipped, I
can make it out of stainless. The joy was finding the flux core wire
for welding SS. Though my welder is a bit wimpy to do it right, if I
preheat the piece to red hot with the oxy/propane torch I can weld
the stuff.
Yatchting? Don't know about that. Still to stuck up to join the yatch
club!
>Could be right about the brass being brittle. Just ordered one four
> I would go ahead and use the screws, since you already have them.
>
> As far as the rudder post, I would worry about the brass tube
> possibly being brittle. Depends on the brass, of course.
>
> What about welding-up the rudder post from mild steel and
> finding a place to hot-dip galvanize it after it
> is fabricated? You mentioned that you were going to use some
> other galvanized fittings on the boat.
>
> Varnish; bronze; hull-fairing... sounds like Richard's
> going yachting!
>
>
>
>
> Max
foot tube of 304 SS.
I thought about that, but by the time I pay to have it hot dipped, I
can make it out of stainless. The joy was finding the flux core wire
for welding SS. Though my welder is a bit wimpy to do it right, if I
preheat the piece to red hot with the oxy/propane torch I can weld
the stuff.
Yatchting? Don't know about that. Still to stuck up to join the yatch
club!
--- In bolger@y..., richard@s... wrote:
As far as the rudder post, I would worry about the brass tube
possibly being brittle. Depends on the brass, of course.
What about welding-up the rudder post from mild steel and
finding a place to hot-dip galvanize it after it
is fabricated? You mentioned that you were going to use some
other galvanized fittings on the boat.
Varnish; bronze; hull-fairing... sounds like Richard's
going yachting!
Max
> Actualy, I was thinking of a brass pipe with bronze fittings. Youcan
> get a brass tube for about the same price as a stainless one, forthe
> rudder post.I would go ahead and use the screws, since you already have them.
>
> I may just try to cast me the rudder post out of silicon bronze,
> should be interesting.
>
As far as the rudder post, I would worry about the brass tube
possibly being brittle. Depends on the brass, of course.
What about welding-up the rudder post from mild steel and
finding a place to hot-dip galvanize it after it
is fabricated? You mentioned that you were going to use some
other galvanized fittings on the boat.
Varnish; bronze; hull-fairing... sounds like Richard's
going yachting!
Max
--- In bolger@y..., cadbury@s... wrote:
several boxes of brass screws for next to nothing, as well as about
$300 worth of stainless bolts for about $30.
I've only used the brass so far to screw panels on that are also held
with epoxy. They will be sealed under epoxy, so I could have probably
even used plain steel for that matter. However, the softness of the
brass is nice when you want to knock the head down flush with the
panel, when your countersink wasn't quite deep enough.
This is a trailer boat, mostly fresh water, with the possible weekend
or two in the Gulf.
I want a pretty boat out of it, as I intend to keep the thing for
about 10 years. I'm glassing all wood that might check, bought bronze
to cast me some pretty cleats, using stainless and galvanized on
critical fasteners, comercial watertight hatches on critical areas.
This one will have a carefully faired hull, with wood brightwork and
bronze running lights.
>Actualy, the local Payless Cashways is doing the close out thing. Got
> What kind of boat do you want to build? "Bristol fashion" or
> "workboat-economical?" Each path has good points and bad.
> How easy is it to replace these fasteners, and what are
> the consequences of failure? How long do you expect the
> rest of the boat to last?
>
> Anyway, you asked for thoughts.
>
>
>
>
>
> Max
several boxes of brass screws for next to nothing, as well as about
$300 worth of stainless bolts for about $30.
I've only used the brass so far to screw panels on that are also held
with epoxy. They will be sealed under epoxy, so I could have probably
even used plain steel for that matter. However, the softness of the
brass is nice when you want to knock the head down flush with the
panel, when your countersink wasn't quite deep enough.
This is a trailer boat, mostly fresh water, with the possible weekend
or two in the Gulf.
I want a pretty boat out of it, as I intend to keep the thing for
about 10 years. I'm glassing all wood that might check, bought bronze
to cast me some pretty cleats, using stainless and galvanized on
critical fasteners, comercial watertight hatches on critical areas.
This one will have a carefully faired hull, with wood brightwork and
bronze running lights.
--- In bolger@y..., richard@s... wrote:
For a boat kept on a trailer and used primarily in fresh
water. I would not worry too much about corrosion; I would
be more concerned with the real wimpy nature of brass screws.
I drove hundreds into my boat, and often bent or twisted off
the ones that did not strip-out their phillips heads. Since
they are not that much cheaper than bronze, I would not use
them again, but not because of corrosion concerns.
One can get away with a lot in a fresh-water environment, that
would not be wise in salt water. I have even used cadmium-plated
steel machine screws in underwater repairs on a aluminum hull.
Although it was usually trailered, i did leave it afloat for
about 4 months during the summer of 1996. That boat has since moved
on to another owner, but it is a person I know, and the patch is
still holding tight, now 7 years after the repair.
Jim Michalak put his AF4 (and other boats) together with galvanized
roofing nails, and after 4 summers of use, I went looking for rust
streaks and could not find any (which does not necessaily mean
the nails are not rusting).
What kind of boat do you want to build? "Bristol fashion" or
"workboat-economical?" Each path has good points and bad.
How easy is it to replace these fasteners, and what are
the consequences of failure? How long do you expect the
rest of the boat to last?
Anyway, you asked for thoughts.
Max
> I know. "Don't mix metals". But, brass and bronze are very similarplate?
> chemicaly. Can I use brass screws on bronze parts and vice versa
> without major galvanic problems?
>
> They are very close on this list:
>http://www.pemnet.com/design_information/galvanic.html
>
> Maybe about like using 304 stainless screws on a 316 stainless
>Hey Richard
> Any thoughts?
For a boat kept on a trailer and used primarily in fresh
water. I would not worry too much about corrosion; I would
be more concerned with the real wimpy nature of brass screws.
I drove hundreds into my boat, and often bent or twisted off
the ones that did not strip-out their phillips heads. Since
they are not that much cheaper than bronze, I would not use
them again, but not because of corrosion concerns.
One can get away with a lot in a fresh-water environment, that
would not be wise in salt water. I have even used cadmium-plated
steel machine screws in underwater repairs on a aluminum hull.
Although it was usually trailered, i did leave it afloat for
about 4 months during the summer of 1996. That boat has since moved
on to another owner, but it is a person I know, and the patch is
still holding tight, now 7 years after the repair.
Jim Michalak put his AF4 (and other boats) together with galvanized
roofing nails, and after 4 summers of use, I went looking for rust
streaks and could not find any (which does not necessaily mean
the nails are not rusting).
What kind of boat do you want to build? "Bristol fashion" or
"workboat-economical?" Each path has good points and bad.
How easy is it to replace these fasteners, and what are
the consequences of failure? How long do you expect the
rest of the boat to last?
Anyway, you asked for thoughts.
Max
Actualy, I was thinking of a brass pipe with bronze fittings. You can
get a brass tube for about the same price as a stainless one, for the
rudder post.
I may just try to cast me the rudder post out of silicon bronze,
should be interesting.
get a brass tube for about the same price as a stainless one, for the
rudder post.
I may just try to cast me the rudder post out of silicon bronze,
should be interesting.
--- In bolger@y..., cha62759@t... wrote:
> Hi Chris,
> The worry is electrolysis. The zinc is sacrificial and when it's
gone
> so are your screws. The bronze are about %65 more in price. A few
> screws are a dollar or so. Why risk it.
> Bob Chamberland
>
> --- In bolger@y..., Chris Crandall <crandall@u...> wrote:
> > On Thu, 27 Sep 2001 richard@s... wrote:
> > > I know. "Don't mix metals". But, brass and bronze are very
similar
> > > chemicaly. Can I use brass screws on bronze parts and vice versa
> > > without major galvanic problems?
> >
> > I doubt it. Brass has lots of zinc, bronze has tin. Zinc is
> > very ignoble, and is not recommended below the waterline.
> >
> > I wouldn't do it.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > They are very close on this list:
> > >http://www.pemnet.com/design_information/galvanic.html
> > >
> > > Maybe about like using 304 stainless screws on a 316 stainless
> plate?
> > >
> > > Any thoughts?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead
horses
> > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all
you
> like
> > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester,
> MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Chris Crandall crandall@u... (785) 864-4131
> > Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS
> 66045
> > I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine
hypothesis.
Wow.
I was going to warn against using them in a boat used in salt
water, but I guess the comment below says it all.
Firefly is 100% silicon bronze screwed and nailed (except for the
copper clench nails), with only a few more to go until I paint her.
I will scan in some hatch pictures next.
David Jost
I was going to warn against using them in a boat used in salt
water, but I guess the comment below says it all.
Firefly is 100% silicon bronze screwed and nailed (except for the
copper clench nails), with only a few more to go until I paint her.
I will scan in some hatch pictures next.
David Jost
> were used for repairs or mounting hardware and they had virtuallyturn
> to powder even above the waterline and in a fresh waterenvironment.
>
> Vince Chew
Not only should you NOT mix brass and bronze, you should not use brass
screws at all in boat building. I've seen older boats where brass screws
were used for repairs or mounting hardware and they had virtually turn
to powder even above the waterline and in a fresh water environment.
Vince Chew
screws at all in boat building. I've seen older boats where brass screws
were used for repairs or mounting hardware and they had virtually turn
to powder even above the waterline and in a fresh water environment.
Vince Chew
Hi Chris,
The worry is electrolysis. The zinc is sacrificial and when it's gone
so are your screws. The bronze are about %65 more in price. A few
screws are a dollar or so. Why risk it.
Bob Chamberland
The worry is electrolysis. The zinc is sacrificial and when it's gone
so are your screws. The bronze are about %65 more in price. A few
screws are a dollar or so. Why risk it.
Bob Chamberland
--- In bolger@y..., Chris Crandall <crandall@u...> wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Sep 2001 richard@s... wrote:
> > I know. "Don't mix metals". But, brass and bronze are very similar
> > chemicaly. Can I use brass screws on bronze parts and vice versa
> > without major galvanic problems?
>
> I doubt it. Brass has lots of zinc, bronze has tin. Zinc is
> very ignoble, and is not recommended below the waterline.
>
> I wouldn't do it.
>
>
> >
> > They are very close on this list:
> >http://www.pemnet.com/design_information/galvanic.html
> >
> > Maybe about like using 304 stainless screws on a 316 stainless
plate?
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
like
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
> Chris Crandall crandall@u... (785) 864-4131
> Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS
66045
> I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
On Thu, 27 Sep 2001richard@...wrote:
very ignoble, and is not recommended below the waterline.
I wouldn't do it.
Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
> I know. "Don't mix metals". But, brass and bronze are very similarI doubt it. Brass has lots of zinc, bronze has tin. Zinc is
> chemicaly. Can I use brass screws on bronze parts and vice versa
> without major galvanic problems?
very ignoble, and is not recommended below the waterline.
I wouldn't do it.
>Chris Crandallcrandall@...(785) 864-4131
> They are very close on this list:
>http://www.pemnet.com/design_information/galvanic.html
>
> Maybe about like using 304 stainless screws on a 316 stainless plate?
>
> Any thoughts?
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
I know. "Don't mix metals". But, brass and bronze are very similar
chemicaly. Can I use brass screws on bronze parts and vice versa
without major galvanic problems?
They are very close on this list:
http://www.pemnet.com/design_information/galvanic.html
Maybe about like using 304 stainless screws on a 316 stainless plate?
Any thoughts?
chemicaly. Can I use brass screws on bronze parts and vice versa
without major galvanic problems?
They are very close on this list:
http://www.pemnet.com/design_information/galvanic.html
Maybe about like using 304 stainless screws on a 316 stainless plate?
Any thoughts?