RE: [bolger] Re: West Coast Source for Cedar Strip Planking
I don't think you will have any problem mating strips
to ply. Roger Hatfield has been making nice charter
cats that way for a long time. The fact is that you
don't need a chine log or beafy fillet, as long as you
continue the glass over both sides. It may be a
little heavier, but not enough to matter in almost any
application In most cases the only additional weight
will be a species of wood thing, and some ply like
luan is pretty light. On the other hand it does seem
like a weird practive, not so much structurally as
otherwise. JUst to save the little bit of time and
cost involved in laying strips strips, I think one
would degrade the resale value of the boat
significantly. I don't hink people think that way
about decks, but in hulls, it will tend to stand uot
more, particularly in the topsides.
to meet. On sides strip to fill past the sheer<BR>
full-length, then trim to sheer line; finish details
(gunwales, etc.) will<BR>
strengthen that edge and make taper cuts less obvious.
Multi-chine hulls may<BR>
require tapering some strips so all chines fall on the
joint between two<BR>
strips for their full length, which could be tricky
and tedious to do. But<BR>
while multi-chines are no doubt easier to do as
stitch-and-glue, you can get<BR>
more rounded ends and things like vertical flare with
strips, a possible<BR>
argument for using it.<BR>
<BR>
Having built several strip boats, I'd be more worried
about mating a<BR>
strip-sided hull to a ply bottom, than trying to strip
the whole thing. The<BR>
extra materials (chine log, or beefy fillet) needed to
do it well would no<BR>
doubt make the boat heavier than a fully-stripped
version of the same hull<BR>
(not to mention plywood being heavier than strips
anyway). Corners are<BR>
always vulnerable spots on boats, especially on the
bottom, so stripping may<BR>
not be the best thing if it's to be used hard. If you
really want to build a<BR>
strip boat, you might want to pick a design with a
shape that will benefit<BR>
more from the technique, as it is pretty labor
intensive no matter what<BR>
you're building.<BR>
<
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to ply. Roger Hatfield has been making nice charter
cats that way for a long time. The fact is that you
don't need a chine log or beafy fillet, as long as you
continue the glass over both sides. It may be a
little heavier, but not enough to matter in almost any
application In most cases the only additional weight
will be a species of wood thing, and some ply like
luan is pretty light. On the other hand it does seem
like a weird practive, not so much structurally as
otherwise. JUst to save the little bit of time and
cost involved in laying strips strips, I think one
would degrade the resale value of the boat
significantly. I don't hink people think that way
about decks, but in hulls, it will tend to stand uot
more, particularly in the topsides.
to meet. On sides strip to fill past the sheer<BR>
full-length, then trim to sheer line; finish details
(gunwales, etc.) will<BR>
strengthen that edge and make taper cuts less obvious.
Multi-chine hulls may<BR>
require tapering some strips so all chines fall on the
joint between two<BR>
strips for their full length, which could be tricky
and tedious to do. But<BR>
while multi-chines are no doubt easier to do as
stitch-and-glue, you can get<BR>
more rounded ends and things like vertical flare with
strips, a possible<BR>
argument for using it.<BR>
<BR>
Having built several strip boats, I'd be more worried
about mating a<BR>
strip-sided hull to a ply bottom, than trying to strip
the whole thing. The<BR>
extra materials (chine log, or beefy fillet) needed to
do it well would no<BR>
doubt make the boat heavier than a fully-stripped
version of the same hull<BR>
(not to mention plywood being heavier than strips
anyway). Corners are<BR>
always vulnerable spots on boats, especially on the
bottom, so stripping may<BR>
not be the best thing if it's to be used hard. If you
really want to build a<BR>
strip boat, you might want to pick a design with a
shape that will benefit<BR>
more from the technique, as it is pretty labor
intensive no matter what<BR>
you're building.<BR>
<
_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @... address athttp://mail.yahoo.ca
On Mon, 1 Oct 2001, Paul Lefebvre wrote:
It's quite a nice boat.
> Having built several strip boats, I'd be more worried about mating aThe Steve Redmond Elver does this -- strip topsides, ply bottom.
> strip-sided hull to a ply bottom, than trying to strip the whole
> thing. The extra materials (chine log, or beefy fillet) needed to do
> it well would no doubt make the boat heavier than a fully-stripped
> version of the same hull (not to mention plywood being heavier than
> strips anyway).
It's quite a nice boat.
Why not strip the bottom? Although I'm not familiar with the boat you
mention, with careful planning, strips can be used on chined or even
multi-chined hulls, even though they're best known on curvy canoes. See the
first photos of the Champlain messabout in Peter Lenihan's recent article in
Duckworks for a photo of my hard-chined, strip kayak for an example - these
angles are not even close to the limits of what could be done (deck to hull
joint was taped, not bead and cove). Bead-and-cove strips will provide a
very solid joint at all but very extreme angles; a small fillet inside the
joint will strengthen it substantially, and can be made of the correct mix
of wood flour and other fillers so it will be almost invisible if the intent
is to finish it bright. You'd also be surprised how far you can bend strips
laterally to get a pretty 'bulls-eye' pattern across the bottom, with bead
and cove edges to help hold it all together til the glue dries. This makes
for a very stiff hull once fiberglassed. Probably not a great idea for a
perfectly flat hull, but a hull with some rocker would benefit from this
method and be nice to look at.
A single hard chine is very easy to strip - just start stripping from the
chines and go up and down from there. On the bottom nothing is different
from usual stripping - fill in one side, then snap a line, cut, and taper
all strips from opposite side to meet. On sides strip to fill past the sheer
full-length, then trim to sheer line; finish details (gunwales, etc.) will
strengthen that edge and make taper cuts less obvious. Multi-chine hulls may
require tapering some strips so all chines fall on the joint between two
strips for their full length, which could be tricky and tedious to do. But
while multi-chines are no doubt easier to do as stitch-and-glue, you can get
more rounded ends and things like vertical flare with strips, a possible
argument for using it.
Having built several strip boats, I'd be more worried about mating a
strip-sided hull to a ply bottom, than trying to strip the whole thing. The
extra materials (chine log, or beefy fillet) needed to do it well would no
doubt make the boat heavier than a fully-stripped version of the same hull
(not to mention plywood being heavier than strips anyway). Corners are
always vulnerable spots on boats, especially on the bottom, so stripping may
not be the best thing if it's to be used hard. If you really want to build a
strip boat, you might want to pick a design with a shape that will benefit
more from the technique, as it is pretty labor intensive no matter what
you're building.
Good Luck!
Paul L.
mention, with careful planning, strips can be used on chined or even
multi-chined hulls, even though they're best known on curvy canoes. See the
first photos of the Champlain messabout in Peter Lenihan's recent article in
Duckworks for a photo of my hard-chined, strip kayak for an example - these
angles are not even close to the limits of what could be done (deck to hull
joint was taped, not bead and cove). Bead-and-cove strips will provide a
very solid joint at all but very extreme angles; a small fillet inside the
joint will strengthen it substantially, and can be made of the correct mix
of wood flour and other fillers so it will be almost invisible if the intent
is to finish it bright. You'd also be surprised how far you can bend strips
laterally to get a pretty 'bulls-eye' pattern across the bottom, with bead
and cove edges to help hold it all together til the glue dries. This makes
for a very stiff hull once fiberglassed. Probably not a great idea for a
perfectly flat hull, but a hull with some rocker would benefit from this
method and be nice to look at.
A single hard chine is very easy to strip - just start stripping from the
chines and go up and down from there. On the bottom nothing is different
from usual stripping - fill in one side, then snap a line, cut, and taper
all strips from opposite side to meet. On sides strip to fill past the sheer
full-length, then trim to sheer line; finish details (gunwales, etc.) will
strengthen that edge and make taper cuts less obvious. Multi-chine hulls may
require tapering some strips so all chines fall on the joint between two
strips for their full length, which could be tricky and tedious to do. But
while multi-chines are no doubt easier to do as stitch-and-glue, you can get
more rounded ends and things like vertical flare with strips, a possible
argument for using it.
Having built several strip boats, I'd be more worried about mating a
strip-sided hull to a ply bottom, than trying to strip the whole thing. The
extra materials (chine log, or beefy fillet) needed to do it well would no
doubt make the boat heavier than a fully-stripped version of the same hull
(not to mention plywood being heavier than strips anyway). Corners are
always vulnerable spots on boats, especially on the bottom, so stripping may
not be the best thing if it's to be used hard. If you really want to build a
strip boat, you might want to pick a design with a shape that will benefit
more from the technique, as it is pretty labor intensive no matter what
you're building.
Good Luck!
Paul L.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Somewhere Sometime [mailto:clockspring2000@...]
> I am presently
> lofting the 17' Herreshof pulling boat in Volume 2 of Classic Small
> Craft and am thinking about stripping instead of lapstrake. I am
> assuming that I will not be able to strip all the way to the bottom
> (it's has flat bottom with slight rocker) and will have to use a
> plywood garboard and then strip up.
> 18'or something in the same ballpark. I would appreciate anyTry this guy. He was reccomended to me by Bear Mountain and gave me a
> information that anyone might be able to provide.
great quote, even shipping all the way here to Florida.
Rich
Ian Magrath
Great Northern Craft
Suite 433, 1641 Lonsdale Avenue
North Vancouver, BC V7M 2J5
Phone/Fax: (604) 983-3733 / Workshop (604) 924-5334
"gncbc@..."
I would like to thank you both for the information. I am presently
lofting the 17' Herreshof pulling boat in Volume 2 of Classic Small
Craft and am thinking about stripping instead of lapstrake. I am
assuming that I will not be able to strip all the way to the bottom
(it's has flat bottom with slight rocker) and will have to use a
plywood garboard and then strip up.
Once again, I would like to thank you for your assistance.
lofting the 17' Herreshof pulling boat in Volume 2 of Classic Small
Craft and am thinking about stripping instead of lapstrake. I am
assuming that I will not be able to strip all the way to the bottom
(it's has flat bottom with slight rocker) and will have to use a
plywood garboard and then strip up.
Once again, I would like to thank you for your assistance.
I generally get wood from Edensaw Lumber www.edensaw.com in Port
Townsend if I don't get it locally. In the past their prices were
better than Flounder Bay's and they would deliver to the barge for
free. Their customer service on small orders has been terrific.
HJ
"Orr, Jamie" wrote:
Townsend if I don't get it locally. In the past their prices were
better than Flounder Bay's and they would deliver to the barge for
free. Their customer service on small orders has been terrific.
HJ
"Orr, Jamie" wrote:
>
> If I had to guess, I'd say the Rangeley Boat?
>
> You might try Flounder Bay Lumber in Anacortes, Washington, if its not too
> far away. I'm pretty sure they will ship.
>
> Alternatively, cut your own. I have ripped 18' strips out of 1 x 8 cedar
> with my old radial arm saw. Last time I also cut a bead and cove on them
> using a 1/4 inch router and a home made jig. Cutting the strips is not
> difficult, although you waste some wood learning, and you'll turn one strip
> into sawdust for every two that you get.
>
> I just tried Flounder Bay's website, couldn't get to it tonight for some
> reason, but there is one.
>
> Jamie Orr
>
If I had to guess, I'd say the Rangeley Boat?
You might try Flounder Bay Lumber in Anacortes, Washington, if its not too
far away. I'm pretty sure they will ship.
Alternatively, cut your own. I have ripped 18' strips out of 1 x 8 cedar
with my old radial arm saw. Last time I also cut a bead and cove on them
using a 1/4 inch router and a home made jig. Cutting the strips is not
difficult, although you waste some wood learning, and you'll turn one strip
into sawdust for every two that you get.
I just tried Flounder Bay's website, couldn't get to it tonight for some
reason, but there is one.
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: Somewhere Sometime [mailto:clockspring2000@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 8:20 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] West Coast Source for Cedar Strip Planking
Okay, I confess....this is in regards to a John Gardner design (i.e.
Building Classic Small Craft) and not one of the designs by the
master (Bolger). I am looking for a west coast (California) source
for cove and bead planking, either 3/16" x 3/4" x 18" or 3/16" x 1" x
18'or something in the same ballpark. I would appreciate any
information that anyone might be able to provide.
Thank you.
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
You might try Flounder Bay Lumber in Anacortes, Washington, if its not too
far away. I'm pretty sure they will ship.
Alternatively, cut your own. I have ripped 18' strips out of 1 x 8 cedar
with my old radial arm saw. Last time I also cut a bead and cove on them
using a 1/4 inch router and a home made jig. Cutting the strips is not
difficult, although you waste some wood learning, and you'll turn one strip
into sawdust for every two that you get.
I just tried Flounder Bay's website, couldn't get to it tonight for some
reason, but there is one.
Jamie Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: Somewhere Sometime [mailto:clockspring2000@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 8:20 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] West Coast Source for Cedar Strip Planking
Okay, I confess....this is in regards to a John Gardner design (i.e.
Building Classic Small Craft) and not one of the designs by the
master (Bolger). I am looking for a west coast (California) source
for cove and bead planking, either 3/16" x 3/4" x 18" or 3/16" x 1" x
18'or something in the same ballpark. I would appreciate any
information that anyone might be able to provide.
Thank you.
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Okay, I confess....this is in regards to a John Gardner design (i.e.
Building Classic Small Craft) and not one of the designs by the
master (Bolger). I am looking for a west coast (California) source
for cove and bead planking, either 3/16" x 3/4" x 18" or 3/16" x 1" x
18'or something in the same ballpark. I would appreciate any
information that anyone might be able to provide.
Thank you.
Building Classic Small Craft) and not one of the designs by the
master (Bolger). I am looking for a west coast (California) source
for cove and bead planking, either 3/16" x 3/4" x 18" or 3/16" x 1" x
18'or something in the same ballpark. I would appreciate any
information that anyone might be able to provide.
Thank you.