RE: [bolger] Re: Non Bolger, but look at this boat...

Yes, I would do that – it’s the big advantage of the bilge board. Considering whether to use a daggerboard or (off-)centerboard, you can get a narrow daggerboard closer to the chine of a flat-bottom boat than you can a long (off-)centerboard. Its true that a pivoting daggerboard adds some complexity, but it would be better than not pivoting when you run aground. And the daggerboard is more efficient.

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From:wmrpage@...[mailto:wmrpage@...]
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 7:14 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Non Bolger, but look at this boat...

In a message dated 10/10/01 10:55:42 AM Central Daylight Time,
kreamer@...writes:

> I’m thinking of using two bilge dagger boards, each with an angle of
> attack to weather of maybe 3 degrees, with a lifting foil profile.

> What do you think of the idea?
>
> Sounds like an awfully complicated effort to achieve doubtful and at best
> very marginal performance improvements. I think the principal advantage of
> bilge boards in scows is that the lee board stands nearer vertical when the
> boat is heeled, an advantage that your concept (if I understand it
> correctly) would not have.
>
> However, in the interests of science and controversy, I think you should
> execute this concept and give a full report!
>
> Ciao for Niao,
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Bolger rules!!!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 10/10/01 10:55:42 AM Central Daylight Time,
kreamer@...writes:

> I’m thinking of using two bilge dagger boards, each with an angle of
> attack to weather of maybe 3 degrees, with a lifting foil profile.

> What do you think of the idea?
>
> Sounds like an awfully complicated effort to achieve doubtful and at best
> very marginal performance improvements. I think the principal advantage of
> bilge boards in scows is that the lee board stands nearer vertical when the
> boat is heeled, an advantage that your concept (if I understand it
> correctly) would not have.
>
> However, in the interests of science and controversy, I think you should
> execute this concept and give a full report!
>
> Ciao for Niao,
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 10/10/01 10:55:42 AM Central Daylight Time,
kreamer@...writes:

> Looks like the CK17 sail plan and daggerboard CEs are reversed from
> usual, so you’d get weather helm. But how much lead should the board
> have, if any?
>
>

While participating in a rather tedious conference this afternoon, I actually
"calculated" the CE of the sail plan on an ink-jet printed profile drawing of
the CK17 blown up to 1cm = 1ft scale. Unless I made some gross conceptual
error, the CE lies on a vertical line passing through the waterline near the
leading edge of the daggerboard. Surprised me! (actually, on my rough
drawing, the intersection point is roughly 1/3 of the dagger board width aft
of the board's leading edge - but I don't think any significance should be
attached to that given the likely margin of error and that the "CE" (or "CA")
is essentially a notional construct.)

(I'd be most appreciative if someone would check my results.)

On first glance (and second and third and still), to my untutored eye it
looks like the dagger board is much farther aft than customary. I would
expect this condition to give severe or uncontrollable LEE helm, not windward
helm. I'm going to check out my limited collection of Bolger, Chapelle and
Parker to try to find a similar profile for comparison purposes.

I believe it is customary for a designer to place the CE some small
percentage of LWL ahead of the CLR, the percentage varying empirically with
hull and appendage shape, but I don't know the range of values used.

If the design does have any gross CE/CLR problem (unlikely, given the
source), I don't think using bilgeboards would do much, if anything to
correct it.

Bill in MN

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The web site sail plan shows the sails CE ahead of the board CE, by
quite a lot. Just surprising, thats all.
Bill

-----Original Message-----
From:pvanderw@...[mailto:pvanderw@...]
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 12:07 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Non Bolger, but look at this boat...

> Looks like the CK17 sail plan and daggerboard CEs are reversed from
> usual, so you'd get weather helm.

The designer says that the CK17 has 12% lead and notes a couple of
factors that would increase weather helm.

What makes you think an experienced designer and professional
engineer would make a mistake with such a basic aspect of design?

Peter

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Bolger rules!!!
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- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bilgeboard racing scows (various classes - C and E are common) which
are designed to be sailed a 20-25 degree heel angles, have
essentially two off-centerboards, one for each tack. They're canted
outboard so that the board that's lowered is just about vertical when
the boat is heeled normally. The boards are generally toed in a few
degrees, see:http://www.ncssa.org/CSCOW.htmSome of them have two
rudders also. They're very fast boats.

FWIW, I'd rather have pivoting centerboards rather than two
daggerboards to deal with. I think it would be MUCH easier to change
boards when tacking just by pulling on lines, rather than lifting out
and reinserting a daggerboard.

Keith Wilson

--- In bolger@y..., "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@m...> wrote:
> I'm thinking of using two bilge dagger boards, each with an angle of
> attack to weather of maybe 3 degrees, with a lifting foil profile.

> Looks like the CK17 sail plan and daggerboard CEs are reversed from
> usual, so you'd get weather helm.

Looks like the CK17 sail plan and daggerboard CEs are reversed from
usual, so youd get weather helm. But how much lead should the board
have, if any?

Im thinking of using two bilge dagger boards, each with an angle of
attack to weather of maybe 3 degrees, with a lifting foil profile. You
could set the angle so that the board would carry all the sideways load
under certain conditions, and the boat wouldnt make any leeway. Drag
would be reduced because the board is a much more efficient lifting body
than the hull.

To tack, you would first put the weather board in, then put the tiller
down and remove the other board as you come head to wind (big tiller
extension when single handed, or just wait until youre squared away to
remove the weather board). I could arrange the dagger blades to pivot
between two cheeks like a rudder, with the trio fitting into a
wider-than-usual case. When fully in, the cheeks are flush with the
bottom. The wide case would let me experiment with flow fences on the
blade tips.

The case would have room, at the after end, to let the board pivot,
intentionally or when it strikes bottom. There might be a detent in the
straight down position, another in an intermediate position, that
hitting bottom would override. Pulling the board up would return it to
the intermediate position, in which configuration it could be fully
removed or inserted.

What do you think of the idea?

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From:wmrpage@...[mailto:wmrpage@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 8:00 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Non Bolger, but look at this boat...

In a message dated 10/8/01 7:30:25 AM Central Daylight Time,
ellengaest@...writes:

> Next,that daggerboard is just a foil looking to foul itself on
>

I'm going to make photocopies of the profile tomorrow to play with, but
in
the meantime - does the placement of the daggerboard look a little
radical to
anyone else?

Bill in MN

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Bolger rules!!!
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- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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Don, in that context "piano" means "slowly", however you gave me an
idea!

--- In bolger@y..., dbaldnz@y... wrote:
> Ok Pippo, so you say-
> "Who goes flat goes healthy and goes far away" ??????
> From that I conclude you are searching for the healthiest flat boat
> design to sail to NZ for the next americas cup...most welcome!
> DonB

> > say "chi va piano, va sano e va lontano"...

Ok Pippo, so you say-
"Who goes flat goes healthy and goes far away" ??????
From that I conclude you are searching for the healthiest flat boat
design to sail to NZ for the next americas cup...most welcome!
DonB

--- In bolger@y..., "Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco" <giuseppe.bianco@a...>
wrote:

> Don, I want to make sure to choose the right one ;-) here in Italy

> say "chi va piano, va sano e va lontano"...
>
> --- In bolger@y..., dbaldnz@y... wrote:
> > Hi Pippo,
> > I thought you were glassing your Chebacco about now?
> > Better put off the Mertens, and invest in a large drawing file
> > cabinet first!
> > :)
> > DonB
> >
> > --- In bolger@y..., "Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco"
> <giuseppe.bianco@a...>
> > wrote:
> > > Hi Peter! Yes, that boat could be the one. Light, simple, an
> almost
> > > perfect daysailer. Not as seaworthy as a Micro, for sure. I'll
> > always
> > > have a soft spot in my heart for the Micro, you know that,

don't

> > you?
> > > However, this summer's experience with my plastic little sloop
> have
> > > taught me several things. I need a simple boat, shallow draft,
> > light,
> > > fast, with a very comfortable cockpit. The Chebacco comes very
> > close,
> > > but this one weights one fourth of a Chebacco (and of a Micro).
> The
> > > CK17 drafts 13 cm instead of 55! In my sailing area there are

> > > weeds (sandy, shallow beaches). The winds are normally sea
> breezes
> > up
> > > to force 3. With this boat, I might easily get rid of mooring
> costs
> > > as well... That could be the one...
> > > Best, Pippo
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In bolger@y..., ellengaest@b... wrote:
> > > > Hi Pippo!
> > > > She sure does look very nice.Are you thinking of

building

> > > her?
> > > > The frustrating thing about boats this size is that you soon
> wish
> > > for
> > > > a cabin.That forward open cockpit is a prime candidate for
> > > > cabinhood.Since Mertens boat has a 6 foot beam(like MICRO),we
> > know
> > > it
> > > > has enough room....
> > > > Next,that daggerboard is just a foil looking to foul
> itself
> > > on
> > > > weeds,mud or worse.We may as well go for the centerboard
> > option.But
> > > > wait! Why even bother with an intrusive centerboard case and

> > hole
> > > > built into the bottom when we can avoid the whole issue by
> using
> > a
> > > > full-lenght keel(like MICRO) and keep the interior open and
> free?
> > > > Since we have already schemed up the notion of perhaps
> > adding
> > > > just a small cabin,this encourages(demands) some serious
> > > cruising.This
> > > > cruising will probably take us to unfamiliar waters where we
> may
> > > also
> > > > be exposed to some un-planned nasty weather.Wouldn't it be

nice

> > if
> > > > this boat could be made at least self-righting(like MICRO)?
> > > > The sail plan is nice and easy to handle(like MICRO)

and

> > > > certainly no more difficult/expensive to build.
> > > > In the end,we end up with a boat that comes very close

> > > > satisfying alot of wishes but only close.........On the other
> > > > hand,MICRO(for which I believe you already have most of the
> > > material
> > > > ;-) ) will be more campact,allow you to cruise under a wider
> > > variety
> > > > of conditions while remaining comfortable,provide greater
> volume
> > of
> > > > dry storage for cruising supplies,keep you safe when things

get

> > > rough
> > > > and still be available for quick daysails when time is

limited!

> > > > Mertens boat is easier to trailer,I will admit but only
> > until
> > > > you master trailering a MICRO at which point there will not

> > much
> > > of
> > > > a difference in trailering.
> > > > So..........
> > > > Happy dreaming!
> > > > Sincerely,
> > > > Peter Lenihan,stirring Pippos thoughts from the shores of the
> > > > St.Lawrence,where it is a nippy 3deg.Celsius with a chil

factor

> > of
> > > > -2deg.celsius........Brrrrrrrrr!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In bolger@y..., "Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco"
> > > <giuseppe.bianco@a...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Hi Folks
> > > > > have a look to this boat designed by Jacques Mertens:
> > > > >
> > > > >http://www.bateau.com/plans/sail/CK17.php3
> > > > >
> > > > > Looks great, doesn't it?

In a message dated 10/8/01 7:30:25 AM Central Daylight Time,
ellengaest@...writes:

> Next,that daggerboard is just a foil looking to foul itself on
>

On Mon, 8 Oct 2001djost@...wrote:

> do you think that Mr. Bolger would design a pair of bilge keels for
> Micro?

No. It's so alien to the concept of the boat, he'd write a polite letter,
if you're lucky, firmly saying "yuck".

There is also a Core Sound 20, both by Graham Byrnes at B&B Yacht Design.I've seen the 17 sail and
was impressed enough to buy the plans but somewhere in there I encountered my house project and then
a Freedom 21. Clyde

cpcorreia@...wrote:

> Pippo,
>
> This does look like a neat boat. It is very similar to the Core Sound 17.
>
>http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/cs17.htm
>
> I like the fact that the CS17 has more sail area, but has a third location
> for a mast which allows one sail to be carried on those windy days. Have you
> compared these boats. What do you think?
>
> Chuck, (California)
>
> In a message dated 10/8/01 1:29:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>giuseppe.bianco@...writes:
>
> << Hi Folks
> have a look to this boat designed by Jacques Mertens:
>
>http://www.bateau.com/plans/sail/CK17.php3
>
> Looks great, doesn't it?
> >>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Don, I want to make sure to choose the right one ;-) here in Italy we
say "chi va piano, va sano e va lontano"...

--- In bolger@y..., dbaldnz@y... wrote:
> Hi Pippo,
> I thought you were glassing your Chebacco about now?
> Better put off the Mertens, and invest in a large drawing file
> cabinet first!
> :)
> DonB
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco"
<giuseppe.bianco@a...>
> wrote:
> > Hi Peter! Yes, that boat could be the one. Light, simple, an
almost
> > perfect daysailer. Not as seaworthy as a Micro, for sure. I'll
> always
> > have a soft spot in my heart for the Micro, you know that, don't
> you?
> > However, this summer's experience with my plastic little sloop
have
> > taught me several things. I need a simple boat, shallow draft,
> light,
> > fast, with a very comfortable cockpit. The Chebacco comes very
> close,
> > but this one weights one fourth of a Chebacco (and of a Micro).
The
> > CK17 drafts 13 cm instead of 55! In my sailing area there are no
> > weeds (sandy, shallow beaches). The winds are normally sea
breezes
> up
> > to force 3. With this boat, I might easily get rid of mooring
costs
> > as well... That could be the one...
> > Best, Pippo
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In bolger@y..., ellengaest@b... wrote:
> > > Hi Pippo!
> > > She sure does look very nice.Are you thinking of building
> > her?
> > > The frustrating thing about boats this size is that you soon
wish
> > for
> > > a cabin.That forward open cockpit is a prime candidate for
> > > cabinhood.Since Mertens boat has a 6 foot beam(like MICRO),we
> know
> > it
> > > has enough room....
> > > Next,that daggerboard is just a foil looking to foul
itself
> > on
> > > weeds,mud or worse.We may as well go for the centerboard
> option.But
> > > wait! Why even bother with an intrusive centerboard case and a
> hole
> > > built into the bottom when we can avoid the whole issue by
using
> a
> > > full-lenght keel(like MICRO) and keep the interior open and
free?
> > > Since we have already schemed up the notion of perhaps
> adding
> > > just a small cabin,this encourages(demands) some serious
> > cruising.This
> > > cruising will probably take us to unfamiliar waters where we
may
> > also
> > > be exposed to some un-planned nasty weather.Wouldn't it be nice
> if
> > > this boat could be made at least self-righting(like MICRO)?
> > > The sail plan is nice and easy to handle(like MICRO) and
> > > certainly no more difficult/expensive to build.
> > > In the end,we end up with a boat that comes very close to
> > > satisfying alot of wishes but only close.........On the other
> > > hand,MICRO(for which I believe you already have most of the
> > material
> > > ;-) ) will be more campact,allow you to cruise under a wider
> > variety
> > > of conditions while remaining comfortable,provide greater
volume
> of
> > > dry storage for cruising supplies,keep you safe when things get
> > rough
> > > and still be available for quick daysails when time is limited!
> > > Mertens boat is easier to trailer,I will admit but only
> until
> > > you master trailering a MICRO at which point there will not be
> much
> > of
> > > a difference in trailering.
> > > So..........
> > > Happy dreaming!
> > > Sincerely,
> > > Peter Lenihan,stirring Pippos thoughts from the shores of the
> > > St.Lawrence,where it is a nippy 3deg.Celsius with a chil factor
> of
> > > -2deg.celsius........Brrrrrrrrr!!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In bolger@y..., "Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco"
> > <giuseppe.bianco@a...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Hi Folks
> > > > have a look to this boat designed by Jacques Mertens:
> > > >
> > > >http://www.bateau.com/plans/sail/CK17.php3
> > > >
> > > > Looks great, doesn't it?

Chuck, how are you?
Yes, I've compared the two boats and definitely prefer the Mertens'
one due to its extremely clever cockpit design (it has two cockpits
actually, one being for the skipper, the other for the crew), other
than the very significant storage space. One of the many things I've
learned in one month of daysailing is that storage space is
fundamental. On my little plastic 16 footer, which is supposed to be
a spacious boat by its size, there's definitely a problem to find
suitable storage for things like floating jackets, oars, ropes,
fenders, and so on.
Best, Pippo

--- In bolger@y..., cpcorreia@a... wrote:
> Pippo,
>
> This does look like a neat boat. It is very similar to the Core
Sound 17.
>
>http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/cs17.htm
>
> I like the fact that the CS17 has more sail area, but has a third
location
> for a mast which allows one sail to be carried on those windy
days. Have you
> compared these boats. What do you think?
>
> Chuck, (California)
>
> In a message dated 10/8/01 1:29:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> giuseppe.bianco@a... writes:
>
> << Hi Folks
> have a look to this boat designed by Jacques Mertens:
>
>http://www.bateau.com/plans/sail/CK17.php3
>
> Looks great, doesn't it?
> >>

Hi Pippo,
I thought you were glassing your Chebacco about now?
Better put off the Mertens, and invest in a large drawing file
cabinet first!
:)
DonB

--- In bolger@y..., "Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco" <giuseppe.bianco@a...>
wrote:

> Hi Peter! Yes, that boat could be the one. Light, simple, an almost
> perfect daysailer. Not as seaworthy as a Micro, for sure. I'll

always

> have a soft spot in my heart for the Micro, you know that, don't

you?

> However, this summer's experience with my plastic little sloop have
> taught me several things. I need a simple boat, shallow draft,

light,

> fast, with a very comfortable cockpit. The Chebacco comes very

close,

> but this one weights one fourth of a Chebacco (and of a Micro). The
> CK17 drafts 13 cm instead of 55! In my sailing area there are no
> weeds (sandy, shallow beaches). The winds are normally sea breezes

> to force 3. With this boat, I might easily get rid of mooring costs
> as well... That could be the one...
> Best, Pippo
>
>
>
> --- In bolger@y..., ellengaest@b... wrote:
> > Hi Pippo!
> > She sure does look very nice.Are you thinking of building
> her?
> > The frustrating thing about boats this size is that you soon wish
> for
> > a cabin.That forward open cockpit is a prime candidate for
> > cabinhood.Since Mertens boat has a 6 foot beam(like MICRO),we

know

> it
> > has enough room....
> > Next,that daggerboard is just a foil looking to foul itself
> on
> > weeds,mud or worse.We may as well go for the centerboard

option.But

> > wait! Why even bother with an intrusive centerboard case and a

hole

> > built into the bottom when we can avoid the whole issue by using

> > full-lenght keel(like MICRO) and keep the interior open and free?
> > Since we have already schemed up the notion of perhaps

adding

> > just a small cabin,this encourages(demands) some serious
> cruising.This
> > cruising will probably take us to unfamiliar waters where we may
> also
> > be exposed to some un-planned nasty weather.Wouldn't it be nice

> > this boat could be made at least self-righting(like MICRO)?
> > The sail plan is nice and easy to handle(like MICRO) and
> > certainly no more difficult/expensive to build.
> > In the end,we end up with a boat that comes very close to
> > satisfying alot of wishes but only close.........On the other
> > hand,MICRO(for which I believe you already have most of the
> material
> > ;-) ) will be more campact,allow you to cruise under a wider
> variety
> > of conditions while remaining comfortable,provide greater volume

> > dry storage for cruising supplies,keep you safe when things get
> rough
> > and still be available for quick daysails when time is limited!
> > Mertens boat is easier to trailer,I will admit but only

until

> > you master trailering a MICRO at which point there will not be

much

> of
> > a difference in trailering.
> > So..........
> > Happy dreaming!
> > Sincerely,
> > Peter Lenihan,stirring Pippos thoughts from the shores of the
> > St.Lawrence,where it is a nippy 3deg.Celsius with a chil factor

> > -2deg.celsius........Brrrrrrrrr!!
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In bolger@y..., "Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco"
> <giuseppe.bianco@a...>
> > wrote:
> > > Hi Folks
> > > have a look to this boat designed by Jacques Mertens:
> > >
> > >http://www.bateau.com/plans/sail/CK17.php3
> > >
> > > Looks great, doesn't it?

Pippo,

This does look like a neat boat. It is very similar to the Core Sound 17.

http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/cs17.htm

I like the fact that the CS17 has more sail area, but has a third location
for a mast which allows one sail to be carried on those windy days. Have you
compared these boats. What do you think?

Chuck, (California)

In a message dated 10/8/01 1:29:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
giuseppe.bianco@...writes:

<< Hi Folks
have a look to this boat designed by Jacques Mertens:

http://www.bateau.com/plans/sail/CK17.php3

Looks great, doesn't it?

>>

Pippo,
Here is a thought.
do you think that Mr. Bolger would design a pair of bilge keels
for Micro. I just got a peak at a Hurley 22 with bilge keels, and
the idea hit me. not only could you possible reduce draft enough to
sneak in and out of anywhere, but you could also sit upright when the
tide leaves. Maybe a rudder with an end plate to go with it.
Anyone else have an idea?

David Jost
"0c this morning in Massachusetts.
The poor tomatoes have had it."

Jacques has indicated that the ck17 daggerboard has some sort of
unique feature that should help keep out of trouble if it hits the
bottom. I will be interested to see a description.

As for choosing your boat based on its underbody, there are separate
problems of the water depth in your mooring area (and if you want to
beach the boat), and your water depth in your sailing area. The
daggerboard would be fine if the former is small, but the latter is
large. But if you want to sail in shallow water (e.g. Barnegat Bay
here on the US east coast), you want a shallower keel.

Peter

Pippo,
I would go for it! Mertens boat sure looks nice.....a great
daysailor.Any boat that can get you out on the water,especially one
that you build, will be a fantastic high! Furthermore,as your kids
grow up,they can use it themselves for some really fun boating
adventures while you build another boat for your retirement!
Keep us posted of your progress,when you start this fun
boat!Certainly you will have no problems with epoxy curing in
27 degree weather! It has gone up one whole degree to 4 degrees
Celsius here in Montréal at 10:01 and if it gets any warmer,I just may
break out in a sweat.........:-D
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,wondering about that"accident" in Milan,from the cool
sunny shores of the St.Lawrence.......... half-way around the world.

--- In bolger@y..., "Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco" <giuseppe.bianco@a...>
wrote:

> Hi Peter! Yes, that boat could be the one. Light, simple, an almost
> perfect daysailer. I need a simple boat, shallow draft,

light,

> fast, with a very comfortable cockpit.

That could be the one...

> Best, Pippo
>
>
>

And the temperature right now (3:15 PM) is about 27 degrees Celsius...
Cheers from sunny (albeit humid) southern Italy
Pippo

--- In bolger@y..., ellengaest@b... wrote:
> Hi Pippo!
> She sure does look very nice.Are you thinking of building
her?
> The frustrating thing about boats this size is that you soon wish
for
> a cabin.That forward open cockpit is a prime candidate for
> cabinhood.Since Mertens boat has a 6 foot beam(like MICRO),we know
it
> has enough room....
> Next,that daggerboard is just a foil looking to foul itself
on
> weeds,mud or worse.We may as well go for the centerboard option.But
> wait! Why even bother with an intrusive centerboard case and a hole
> built into the bottom when we can avoid the whole issue by using a
> full-lenght keel(like MICRO) and keep the interior open and free?
> Since we have already schemed up the notion of perhaps adding
> just a small cabin,this encourages(demands) some serious
cruising.This
> cruising will probably take us to unfamiliar waters where we may
also
> be exposed to some un-planned nasty weather.Wouldn't it be nice if
> this boat could be made at least self-righting(like MICRO)?
> The sail plan is nice and easy to handle(like MICRO) and
> certainly no more difficult/expensive to build.
> In the end,we end up with a boat that comes very close to
> satisfying alot of wishes but only close.........On the other
> hand,MICRO(for which I believe you already have most of the
material
> ;-) ) will be more campact,allow you to cruise under a wider
variety
> of conditions while remaining comfortable,provide greater volume of
> dry storage for cruising supplies,keep you safe when things get
rough
> and still be available for quick daysails when time is limited!
> Mertens boat is easier to trailer,I will admit but only until
> you master trailering a MICRO at which point there will not be much
of
> a difference in trailering.
> So..........
> Happy dreaming!
> Sincerely,
> Peter Lenihan,stirring Pippos thoughts from the shores of the
> St.Lawrence,where it is a nippy 3deg.Celsius with a chil factor of
> -2deg.celsius........Brrrrrrrrr!!
>
>
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco"
<giuseppe.bianco@a...>
> wrote:
> > Hi Folks
> > have a look to this boat designed by Jacques Mertens:
> >
> >http://www.bateau.com/plans/sail/CK17.php3
> >
> > Looks great, doesn't it?

Hi Peter! Yes, that boat could be the one. Light, simple, an almost
perfect daysailer. Not as seaworthy as a Micro, for sure. I'll always
have a soft spot in my heart for the Micro, you know that, don't you?
However, this summer's experience with my plastic little sloop have
taught me several things. I need a simple boat, shallow draft, light,
fast, with a very comfortable cockpit. The Chebacco comes very close,
but this one weights one fourth of a Chebacco (and of a Micro). The
CK17 drafts 13 cm instead of 55! In my sailing area there are no
weeds (sandy, shallow beaches). The winds are normally sea breezes up
to force 3. With this boat, I might easily get rid of mooring costs
as well... That could be the one...
Best, Pippo

--- In bolger@y..., ellengaest@b... wrote:
> Hi Pippo!
> She sure does look very nice.Are you thinking of building
her?
> The frustrating thing about boats this size is that you soon wish
for
> a cabin.That forward open cockpit is a prime candidate for
> cabinhood.Since Mertens boat has a 6 foot beam(like MICRO),we know
it
> has enough room....
> Next,that daggerboard is just a foil looking to foul itself
on
> weeds,mud or worse.We may as well go for the centerboard option.But
> wait! Why even bother with an intrusive centerboard case and a hole
> built into the bottom when we can avoid the whole issue by using a
> full-lenght keel(like MICRO) and keep the interior open and free?
> Since we have already schemed up the notion of perhaps adding
> just a small cabin,this encourages(demands) some serious
cruising.This
> cruising will probably take us to unfamiliar waters where we may
also
> be exposed to some un-planned nasty weather.Wouldn't it be nice if
> this boat could be made at least self-righting(like MICRO)?
> The sail plan is nice and easy to handle(like MICRO) and
> certainly no more difficult/expensive to build.
> In the end,we end up with a boat that comes very close to
> satisfying alot of wishes but only close.........On the other
> hand,MICRO(for which I believe you already have most of the
material
> ;-) ) will be more campact,allow you to cruise under a wider
variety
> of conditions while remaining comfortable,provide greater volume of
> dry storage for cruising supplies,keep you safe when things get
rough
> and still be available for quick daysails when time is limited!
> Mertens boat is easier to trailer,I will admit but only until
> you master trailering a MICRO at which point there will not be much
of
> a difference in trailering.
> So..........
> Happy dreaming!
> Sincerely,
> Peter Lenihan,stirring Pippos thoughts from the shores of the
> St.Lawrence,where it is a nippy 3deg.Celsius with a chil factor of
> -2deg.celsius........Brrrrrrrrr!!
>
>
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco"
<giuseppe.bianco@a...>
> wrote:
> > Hi Folks
> > have a look to this boat designed by Jacques Mertens:
> >
> >http://www.bateau.com/plans/sail/CK17.php3
> >
> > Looks great, doesn't it?

Hi Pippo!
She sure does look very nice.Are you thinking of building her?
The frustrating thing about boats this size is that you soon wish for
a cabin.That forward open cockpit is a prime candidate for
cabinhood.Since Mertens boat has a 6 foot beam(like MICRO),we know it
has enough room....
Next,that daggerboard is just a foil looking to foul itself on
weeds,mud or worse.We may as well go for the centerboard option.But
wait! Why even bother with an intrusive centerboard case and a hole
built into the bottom when we can avoid the whole issue by using a
full-lenght keel(like MICRO) and keep the interior open and free?
Since we have already schemed up the notion of perhaps adding
just a small cabin,this encourages(demands) some serious cruising.This
cruising will probably take us to unfamiliar waters where we may also
be exposed to some un-planned nasty weather.Wouldn't it be nice if
this boat could be made at least self-righting(like MICRO)?
The sail plan is nice and easy to handle(like MICRO) and
certainly no more difficult/expensive to build.
In the end,we end up with a boat that comes very close to
satisfying alot of wishes but only close.........On the other
hand,MICRO(for which I believe you already have most of the material
;-) ) will be more campact,allow you to cruise under a wider variety
of conditions while remaining comfortable,provide greater volume of
dry storage for cruising supplies,keep you safe when things get rough
and still be available for quick daysails when time is limited!
Mertens boat is easier to trailer,I will admit but only until
you master trailering a MICRO at which point there will not be much of
a difference in trailering.
So..........
Happy dreaming!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,stirring Pippos thoughts from the shores of the
St.Lawrence,where it is a nippy 3deg.Celsius with a chil factor of
-2deg.celsius........Brrrrrrrrr!!

--- In bolger@y..., "Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco" <giuseppe.bianco@a...>
wrote:

> Hi Folks
> have a look to this boat designed by Jacques Mertens:
>
>http://www.bateau.com/plans/sail/CK17.php3
>
> Looks great, doesn't it?

Hi Folks
have a look to this boat designed by Jacques Mertens:

http://www.bateau.com/plans/sail/CK17.php3

Looks great, doesn't it?