[bolger] Re: A fishing Zephyr
<snip> I started bailing with my shoe...
Oh no, really? I wouldn't dream of going out without a ton of safety
equipment. I really do carry all those flares and flags the Coast Guard
requires. And I have TWO life preservers on board for each person, one
wearable (I make passengers fit the straps, their choice to wear it. I
wear mine) and a throwable for each.
As far as an "efficient de-watering device" nothing beats a scared man
with a bucket. Note BUCKET not SHOE <g>
My choice here is a good old bleach bottle with the cap on and the
bottom cut out. Bailed out my Galley twice one COLD afternoon when the
incoming tide pinned me to a pier in Mt Sinai harbor.
While I'm at it... your anchor is also a safety device. Think of how
easy it is to row out, drop an anchor and have forever to get the
boards down and the mast up.
Finally... lack of flotation may be a personal choice once you have
life jackets. That way you loose the boat but keep your life (if not
too far out). Again, personally I want a bunch of positive flotation.
Blue Styrofoam is only a few bucks a square foot, that's good to float
62 pounds.
Hope I'm not flogging a dead horse here. I used to assist the Power
Squadrons at safe boating classes and lots of it stuck.
Oh no, really? I wouldn't dream of going out without a ton of safety
equipment. I really do carry all those flares and flags the Coast Guard
requires. And I have TWO life preservers on board for each person, one
wearable (I make passengers fit the straps, their choice to wear it. I
wear mine) and a throwable for each.
As far as an "efficient de-watering device" nothing beats a scared man
with a bucket. Note BUCKET not SHOE <g>
My choice here is a good old bleach bottle with the cap on and the
bottom cut out. Bailed out my Galley twice one COLD afternoon when the
incoming tide pinned me to a pier in Mt Sinai harbor.
While I'm at it... your anchor is also a safety device. Think of how
easy it is to row out, drop an anchor and have forever to get the
boards down and the mast up.
Finally... lack of flotation may be a personal choice once you have
life jackets. That way you loose the boat but keep your life (if not
too far out). Again, personally I want a bunch of positive flotation.
Blue Styrofoam is only a few bucks a square foot, that's good to float
62 pounds.
Hope I'm not flogging a dead horse here. I used to assist the Power
Squadrons at safe boating classes and lots of it stuck.
>If you're dead set about doing it, try this:The windsurfer sail is out. It's a sleeve arrangement and doesn't go
>
>Use your windsurfer sail to see if the area works.
up and down. While this would be fine most of the time, I'd end up
crying like a baby that one day when the fish were everywhere, and it
was my turn at the helm.
>Consider sticking with the lateen sail though.The lateen on the plan is a handsome arrangement indeed, but I don't
think it offers enough room in the bow for the "rodman" and it looks
like it would really be in the way when it was dropped in the boat.
That top yard is looooong. Ideally, i think the rodman's ass would be
on a thward or Payson movable seat right about where the mast for the
lateen rig is as spec'd. We want to give him a little beam to lean
again when he casts, and a little room for a tackle box at his feet.
>If you get into the fish, just let go the sheet.Ah yes, the simple, elegant answer. But have you considered what
happens when that 7 pound false albi starts spinning your boat in
circles? Talk about an unintentional jibe!!! (Been there, done that,
lost the tackle, the fish, and nearly lost the boat.) No, I think one
fellow is assigned to the tiller and sheet as long as there's canvas
aloft. So the sail ought to be handy enough for him to manage while
the crewman has his rod bent to a nice striper.
BTW: My own stability test indicate that the Teal is steady enough
for a standing cast (one-handed.) The Zephyr "looks" more tippy to my
lizard brain, but my monkey brain in telling my lizard brain that
that is an optical illusion due to the increased length to beam
ratio. The monkey is right, right?
Last, regarding heresy. Yes, PCB is probably reading this and
clutching his chest with yet another attack of builder induced
angina. And even if he's not, I'm sure Tim is. I'm sorry for their
pain. But there will be fish, bright silver fish that will be
swimming just yards off the beach and in only a few short months to
boot. The underpowered, unbalanced Zephyr may not be the absolute
BEST tool for the job, but I'm quite sure it better than any I've
seen, and cheaper than most. ;-)
YIBB,
David Ryan
Minister of Information and Culture
Crumbling Empire Productions
(212) 247-0296
Your story is an absolute scream!!!
More!!
James Fuller
( building a Teal)
More!!
James Fuller
( building a Teal)
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ryan" <david@...>
To: <bolger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 4:43 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: A fishing Zephyr
> >
> >BTW, are you sure you want to run the Zephers deep lee board and rudder
> >so near shore? That would worry me so I'd make em both kick-up.
>
> Actually, the closest I came to losing lil'winnie was trying to get
> her non-kick-up rudder into her gudgeons in a good chop.
>
> I had rowed out about 200 yards before I stopped to set the leeboard
> and rudder. Gettin the leaboard down is a snap. But being bit of a
> fool, I order pintles of equal length, making the already difficult
> job of setting the very floaty rudder even more difficult.
>
> Of course the whole procedure entail my hanging my overweight body
> out the back of the pinched stern, making the most of the lack of
> floatation in the back the lifting action of the chop in front. I was
> struggling to get the pins in the holes, when the next thing I knew,
> there was green water coming the rail -- I was going down by the
> stern!
>
> I threw myself forward, stemming the tide, (and nearly losing the
> rudder altogether.) But it was all I could do to keep the water
> sloshing back and forth in the boat from taking us over.
>
> Now Long Island is one long sandy beach, until you get to Montauk --
> specifically, until you get to the beach I sail off of, (Ditch
> Plains.) To the West of where I haul out my boat is sand until you
> get to Patrick Airforce Base in FLA. To the East, cobble beaches at
> best and boat crushing boulders at worst. It was summer, the winds
> was out of the Southwest as usual, I was in a rudderless teal, half
> full of water and too unsteady to do my more than try to balance. My
> original 200 yards of safety had been cut to about 50. Of course, I
> had no bailing bucket. Did I mention I never put any floatation in
> her?
>
> I started bailing with my shoe, and it was doing a pretty good job of
> throwing the water out of the boat. But in my nervousness, I tossed
> it overboard. I took off my hat and started in with that, as the
> breakers and rocky shore came closer. Finally enough water was back
> in the ocean I thought I'd buy some time rowing her out a few yards,
> but with the SW winds, and the water sloshing around and not being
> about to get into proper rowing position, I made no headway. I tried
> sailing her with the leaboard alone, but the water that remained kept
> sloshing around changing my trim wildly.
>
> Finally, just outside the breaker zone, I decided that I was either
> going to save the boat, or lose her by making another try at getting
> the rudder in place.
>
> Miraculously, it settled right into place. I set a course SSE, away
> from the breakers and close-hauled for stability. The crown of my hat
> broke through bailing the rest of the water. When I got home I put a
> nail in wall, and hung the hat on it for good.
>
> YIBB,
>
> David Ryan
> Minister of Information and Culture
> Crumbling Empire Productions
> (212) 247-0296
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Tired of the same old games?
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>
>Actually, the closest I came to losing lil'winnie was trying to get
>BTW, are you sure you want to run the Zephers deep lee board and rudder
>so near shore? That would worry me so I'd make em both kick-up.
her non-kick-up rudder into her gudgeons in a good chop.
I had rowed out about 200 yards before I stopped to set the leeboard
and rudder. Gettin the leaboard down is a snap. But being bit of a
fool, I order pintles of equal length, making the already difficult
job of setting the very floaty rudder even more difficult.
Of course the whole procedure entail my hanging my overweight body
out the back of the pinched stern, making the most of the lack of
floatation in the back the lifting action of the chop in front. I was
struggling to get the pins in the holes, when the next thing I knew,
there was green water coming the rail -- I was going down by the
stern!
I threw myself forward, stemming the tide, (and nearly losing the
rudder altogether.) But it was all I could do to keep the water
sloshing back and forth in the boat from taking us over.
Now Long Island is one long sandy beach, until you get to Montauk --
specifically, until you get to the beach I sail off of, (Ditch
Plains.) To the West of where I haul out my boat is sand until you
get to Patrick Airforce Base in FLA. To the East, cobble beaches at
best and boat crushing boulders at worst. It was summer, the winds
was out of the Southwest as usual, I was in a rudderless teal, half
full of water and too unsteady to do my more than try to balance. My
original 200 yards of safety had been cut to about 50. Of course, I
had no bailing bucket. Did I mention I never put any floatation in
her?
I started bailing with my shoe, and it was doing a pretty good job of
throwing the water out of the boat. But in my nervousness, I tossed
it overboard. I took off my hat and started in with that, as the
breakers and rocky shore came closer. Finally enough water was back
in the ocean I thought I'd buy some time rowing her out a few yards,
but with the SW winds, and the water sloshing around and not being
about to get into proper rowing position, I made no headway. I tried
sailing her with the leaboard alone, but the water that remained kept
sloshing around changing my trim wildly.
Finally, just outside the breaker zone, I decided that I was either
going to save the boat, or lose her by making another try at getting
the rudder in place.
Miraculously, it settled right into place. I set a course SSE, away
from the breakers and close-hauled for stability. The crown of my hat
broke through bailing the rest of the water. When I got home I put a
nail in wall, and hung the hat on it for good.
YIBB,
David Ryan
Minister of Information and Culture
Crumbling Empire Productions
(212) 247-0296
Don't you just hate those dang fish? I swear they know just how far I
can cast and keep 20 feet off that and wait for your bunker to fall off
on a cast.
IMHO you need a high-peeked sprit sail with a brail. What I mean is a
4-sided sprit sail with the boom going to the back higher corner, it
kinda looks like a gaff rig. Then, for a "parking break" you add a
brail, which is just a loop of line from mast to the sprit peek and
back, then led to the deck. When you pull the brail it gathers the sail
to the mast.
The best image I can find of this sail offhand is the Thomaston Galley
athttp://www.instantboats.com/images/plnoninstant.gif.I saw the brail
thing in Marino's "Sailmaker's Apprentice"
While I never got to trying it, this was my plan for fishing my Galley
some day. Usually I just shipped the sprit and gathered the whold mast
into the boat to drift across Moriches Bay.
You also might concider a sea anchor (5 galon bucket on a rope) if your
windage keeps you blowing off the fish.
BTW, are you sure you want to run the Zephers deep lee board and rudder
so near shore? That would worry me so I'd make em both kick-up.
Enjoy
david ryan <davi-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=1477
can cast and keep 20 feet off that and wait for your bunker to fall off
on a cast.
IMHO you need a high-peeked sprit sail with a brail. What I mean is a
4-sided sprit sail with the boom going to the back higher corner, it
kinda looks like a gaff rig. Then, for a "parking break" you add a
brail, which is just a loop of line from mast to the sprit peek and
back, then led to the deck. When you pull the brail it gathers the sail
to the mast.
The best image I can find of this sail offhand is the Thomaston Galley
athttp://www.instantboats.com/images/plnoninstant.gif.I saw the brail
thing in Marino's "Sailmaker's Apprentice"
While I never got to trying it, this was my plan for fishing my Galley
some day. Usually I just shipped the sprit and gathered the whold mast
into the boat to drift across Moriches Bay.
You also might concider a sea anchor (5 galon bucket on a rope) if your
windage keeps you blowing off the fish.
BTW, are you sure you want to run the Zephers deep lee board and rudder
so near shore? That would worry me so I'd make em both kick-up.
Enjoy
david ryan <davi-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=1477
> FBBB --
>
> Although I did not receive a cordless electric drill for Christmas,
> work continues on the L.S. Margaret Ellen.
>
> In the meantime, measurements indicate that the Zephyr can be
> constructed in my living room, and threaded outside through the
> kitchen!
>
> I think I'd like to build a Zephyr hull but with a smaller sail. This
> might seem strange, but the reason is simple: From April to October
> fish run up and down the beach, just outside casting range, but too
> close for most bigger boats. There's a substantial fleet of
> sit-on-top kayaks that chase these fish, and I had a lot of fun going
> after them in lil'winnie.
>
> But there's a better way.
>
> A Zephyr hull with a smaller sized sail might just have a perfect
> little forward of the mast for the crew/fisherman, leaving the
> skipper/guide to tending the sail and rudder. Even with the
> diminished sail, I think it would still beat chasing them in a kayak,
> and I the fishing got hot and heavy, the sail could be dropped so
> both could fish. I already know the old 7.5 meter windsurfer sail
> I've got on my teal is plenty to drive a crew of two (plus a newfie,)
> so I don't think a similarly small sail will be a problem on a longer
> water line.
>
> I can't use my 7.5 because it doesn't go up and down. I've been
> thinking the teal/surf sail, or the windsprint sail both look like
> likely candidates, but I need a better sense of how to line them up
> on the hull to see what kind of clearance the fisherman part of the
> crew gets. If I put the center of area from either of those in the
> same position (for and aft) and the spec'd lattene, will that be
> about right? Also, are either of those sail plans more or less suited
> to polytarp construction, either by nature of the cut, or stresses on
> the sail?
>
> YIBB,
>
> David Ryan
> Minister of Information and Culture
> Crumbling Empire Productions
> (212) 247-0296
If you're dead set about doing it, try this:
Use your windsurfer sail to see if the area works. For fishing, you'll want
a docile boat. You can place the mast partners exactly as they show on the
plan (not glued) and then move them fore and aft until you get the correct
helm. Don't think I'd be trying this in mucho wind with only screws holding
the mast partner.
Consider sticking with the lateen sail though. Its low, uses a short mast
and, better yet, can be reefed. The "instant boats" sail for teal and surf
is not designed to be reefed or lowered.
If you get into the fish, just let go the sheet. There's a description, in
30 odd boats or different boats of a guy who chased sailfish of plam beach
in a sun fish. A Zephyr would be absolutely luxurious.
Robert & Amy Lundy
St. Petersburg, fla.
robert@...
amy@...
Use your windsurfer sail to see if the area works. For fishing, you'll want
a docile boat. You can place the mast partners exactly as they show on the
plan (not glued) and then move them fore and aft until you get the correct
helm. Don't think I'd be trying this in mucho wind with only screws holding
the mast partner.
Consider sticking with the lateen sail though. Its low, uses a short mast
and, better yet, can be reefed. The "instant boats" sail for teal and surf
is not designed to be reefed or lowered.
If you get into the fish, just let go the sheet. There's a description, in
30 odd boats or different boats of a guy who chased sailfish of plam beach
in a sun fish. A Zephyr would be absolutely luxurious.
Robert & Amy Lundy
St. Petersburg, fla.
robert@...
amy@...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Ryan [mailto:david@...]
> Sent: 28 December, 1999 5:43 PM
> To:bolger@egroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] A fishing Zephyr
>
>
> FBBB --
>
> Although I did not receive a cordless electric drill for Christmas,
> work continues on the L.S. Margaret Ellen.
>
> In the meantime, measurements indicate that the Zephyr can be
> constructed in my living room, and threaded outside through the
> kitchen!
>
> I think I'd like to build a Zephyr hull but with a smaller sail. This
> might seem strange, but the reason is simple: From April to October
> fish run up and down the beach, just outside casting range, but too
> close for most bigger boats. There's a substantial fleet of
> sit-on-top kayaks that chase these fish, and I had a lot of fun going
> after them in lil'winnie.
>
> But there's a better way.
>
> A Zephyr hull with a smaller sized sail might just have a perfect
> little forward of the mast for the crew/fisherman, leaving the
> skipper/guide to tending the sail and rudder. Even with the
> diminished sail, I think it would still beat chasing them in a kayak,
> and I the fishing got hot and heavy, the sail could be dropped so
> both could fish. I already know the old 7.5 meter windsurfer sail
> I've got on my teal is plenty to drive a crew of two (plus a newfie,)
> so I don't think a similarly small sail will be a problem on a longer
> water line.
>
> I can't use my 7.5 because it doesn't go up and down. I've been
> thinking the teal/surf sail, or the windsprint sail both look like
> likely candidates, but I need a better sense of how to line them up
> on the hull to see what kind of clearance the fisherman part of the
> crew gets. If I put the center of area from either of those in the
> same position (for and aft) and the spec'd lattene, will that be
> about right? Also, are either of those sail plans more or less suited
> to polytarp construction, either by nature of the cut, or stresses on
> the sail?
>
> YIBB,
>
> David Ryan
> Minister of Information and Culture
> Crumbling Empire Productions
> (212) 247-0296
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Boat buyers and sellers! Do you feel lost in a sea of classified ads?
> Stop treading water and get to iWant.com, the Internet community that
> connects buyers and sellersFREE! Its all smooth sailing from here.
>http://click.egroups.com/1/422/5/_/3457/_/946420955
>
> -- Check out your group's private Chat room
> --http://www.egroups.com/ChatPage?listName=bolger&m=1
>
>
FBBB --
Although I did not receive a cordless electric drill for Christmas,
work continues on the L.S. Margaret Ellen.
In the meantime, measurements indicate that the Zephyr can be
constructed in my living room, and threaded outside through the
kitchen!
I think I'd like to build a Zephyr hull but with a smaller sail. This
might seem strange, but the reason is simple: From April to October
fish run up and down the beach, just outside casting range, but too
close for most bigger boats. There's a substantial fleet of
sit-on-top kayaks that chase these fish, and I had a lot of fun going
after them in lil'winnie.
But there's a better way.
A Zephyr hull with a smaller sized sail might just have a perfect
little forward of the mast for the crew/fisherman, leaving the
skipper/guide to tending the sail and rudder. Even with the
diminished sail, I think it would still beat chasing them in a kayak,
and I the fishing got hot and heavy, the sail could be dropped so
both could fish. I already know the old 7.5 meter windsurfer sail
I've got on my teal is plenty to drive a crew of two (plus a newfie,)
so I don't think a similarly small sail will be a problem on a longer
water line.
I can't use my 7.5 because it doesn't go up and down. I've been
thinking the teal/surf sail, or the windsprint sail both look like
likely candidates, but I need a better sense of how to line them up
on the hull to see what kind of clearance the fisherman part of the
crew gets. If I put the center of area from either of those in the
same position (for and aft) and the spec'd lattene, will that be
about right? Also, are either of those sail plans more or less suited
to polytarp construction, either by nature of the cut, or stresses on
the sail?
YIBB,
David Ryan
Minister of Information and Culture
Crumbling Empire Productions
(212) 247-0296
Although I did not receive a cordless electric drill for Christmas,
work continues on the L.S. Margaret Ellen.
In the meantime, measurements indicate that the Zephyr can be
constructed in my living room, and threaded outside through the
kitchen!
I think I'd like to build a Zephyr hull but with a smaller sail. This
might seem strange, but the reason is simple: From April to October
fish run up and down the beach, just outside casting range, but too
close for most bigger boats. There's a substantial fleet of
sit-on-top kayaks that chase these fish, and I had a lot of fun going
after them in lil'winnie.
But there's a better way.
A Zephyr hull with a smaller sized sail might just have a perfect
little forward of the mast for the crew/fisherman, leaving the
skipper/guide to tending the sail and rudder. Even with the
diminished sail, I think it would still beat chasing them in a kayak,
and I the fishing got hot and heavy, the sail could be dropped so
both could fish. I already know the old 7.5 meter windsurfer sail
I've got on my teal is plenty to drive a crew of two (plus a newfie,)
so I don't think a similarly small sail will be a problem on a longer
water line.
I can't use my 7.5 because it doesn't go up and down. I've been
thinking the teal/surf sail, or the windsprint sail both look like
likely candidates, but I need a better sense of how to line them up
on the hull to see what kind of clearance the fisherman part of the
crew gets. If I put the center of area from either of those in the
same position (for and aft) and the spec'd lattene, will that be
about right? Also, are either of those sail plans more or less suited
to polytarp construction, either by nature of the cut, or stresses on
the sail?
YIBB,
David Ryan
Minister of Information and Culture
Crumbling Empire Productions
(212) 247-0296