Re: [bolger] Re: A gaff rig for Windsprint?
My Windsprint is decked over and the flotation is in both the bow and stern
of the boat. I thought if the boat ever went over, it would float on its
side. Instead, it filled up with water then easily rolled over. It was not
hard to get it back upright and then bail it out. Out in the open water I
think I would have been in trouble.
Mike Masten
In a message dated 10/29/01 5:00:43 AM Pacific Standard Time,
clydewis@...writes:
<< I wonder if the position or placement of the floatation is what did it?
Would the largest volumn of
floatation be higher in the water with the boat right side up or turned
over, once it was full of
water. I have wondered about this as I filled the huge volumns in the bow
and stern of my Lily, with
foam but I also have 300+ lbs of battery ballast. Clyde
teakdeck@...wrote:
of the boat. I thought if the boat ever went over, it would float on its
side. Instead, it filled up with water then easily rolled over. It was not
hard to get it back upright and then bail it out. Out in the open water I
think I would have been in trouble.
Mike Masten
In a message dated 10/29/01 5:00:43 AM Pacific Standard Time,
clydewis@...writes:
<< I wonder if the position or placement of the floatation is what did it?
Would the largest volumn of
floatation be higher in the water with the boat right side up or turned
over, once it was full of
water. I have wondered about this as I filled the huge volumns in the bow
and stern of my Lily, with
foam but I also have 300+ lbs of battery ballast. Clyde
teakdeck@...wrote:
> In a message dated 10/28/01 7:24:45 AM Pacific Standard Time,point
>phillip_lea@...writes:
>
> << Mike,
> Did your Windsprint turtle with the rig set, i.e., drag the yard
> and mast underwater? >>
>
> No, I had other problems at the dock which led to the capsize. My main
> was, despite all the flotation, it was amazing to me how the boat filled up
> with water and turned over.
>
> MM >>
I wonder if the position or placement of the floatation is what did it? Would the largest volumn of
floatation be higher in the water with the boat right side up or turned over, once it was full of
water. I have wondered about this as I filled the huge volumns in the bow and stern of my Lily, with
foam but I also have 300+ lbs of battery ballast. Clyde
teakdeck@...wrote:
floatation be higher in the water with the boat right side up or turned over, once it was full of
water. I have wondered about this as I filled the huge volumns in the bow and stern of my Lily, with
foam but I also have 300+ lbs of battery ballast. Clyde
teakdeck@...wrote:
> In a message dated 10/28/01 7:24:45 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>phillip_lea@...writes:
>
> << Mike,
> Did your Windsprint turtle with the rig set, i.e., drag the yard
> and mast underwater? >>
>
> No, I had other problems at the dock which led to the capsize. My main point
> was, despite all the flotation, it was amazing to me how the boat filled up
> with water and turned over.
>
> MM
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
There's plenty of room under the boom even for a tall guy on WS.
The lug is simpler than a gaff, too. Only one halyard versus two, and only
single part (and therefore shorter ) sheet. There is also no jaws or hoops
to hang on the mast. If you dump the halyard, the whole sail comes down,
right now! Which can be handy on occasion.
If it was a boomless sprit rig, I could see changing it. But not from a
balanced lug. IMO of course....
JB
The lug is simpler than a gaff, too. Only one halyard versus two, and only
single part (and therefore shorter ) sheet. There is also no jaws or hoops
to hang on the mast. If you dump the halyard, the whole sail comes down,
right now! Which can be handy on occasion.
If it was a boomless sprit rig, I could see changing it. But not from a
balanced lug. IMO of course....
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Pannell" <steelcb@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 11:32 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: A gaff rig for Windsprint?
| JB,
|
| The lug rig looked a little forbidding to me, like it might be
| somewhat unwieldy, and I've never sailed one. The gaff rig looks as
| if it would be easier to handle. Also, I'm pretty large for
| Windsprint and if I use a gaffsail with the elevated boom like the
| one on the weekender it looks like there'd be more room. Perhaps I
| should have started out by asking for opinions of people with
| experience sailing both. I've only sailed sloop and lateen rigs so
| far.
|
| Thanks,
|
| Tom Pannell
|
| --- In bolger@y..., "John Bell" <jmbell@m...> wrote:
| > As you may be able to tell from the Solent Lug/Birdwatcher threads,
| I'm a
| > big proponent of the balanced lug.
| >
| > What misgivings do you have about the lug rig? Switching to a gaff
| rig seems
| > like it would add unnecessary complexity with no real benefit. Why
| is this
| > the way you want to go?
| >
| > JB
| >
| > ----- Original Message -----
| > From: "Tom Pannell" <steelcb@y...>
| > To: <bolger@y...>
| > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 7:11 AM
| > Subject: [bolger] A gaff rig for Windsprint?
| >
| >
| > | I've got most of the materials assembled for a Windsprint, my next
| > | boat. I've been looking at the lug rig with some misgivings and
| > | would like to know if anyone has built Windsprint with a Bobcat
| style
| > | gaff rig. It would seem that if I keep the center of effort(?)
| > | marked on the sail by Phil Bolger in the same relative position to
| > | the daggerboard there should be no problem, but this would require
| > | moving the mast and partner forward about 2 ft.
| > |
| > | Also, has anyone built Windsprint stitch-and-glue without the
| > | external chine log vs tack and tape with? I've built different
| boats
| > | both ways, and like stitch-and-glue very well.
| > |
| > | Thanks,
| > | Tom Pannell
| > |
| > |
| > |
| > | Bolger rules!!!
| > | - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| > | - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
| > | - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
| like
| > | - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
| Gloucester, MA,
| > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
| > | - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
| > |
| > | Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
|http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
| > |
| > |
|
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
| - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
| - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
| - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
|
JB,
The lug rig looked a little forbidding to me, like it might be
somewhat unwieldy, and I've never sailed one. The gaff rig looks as
if it would be easier to handle. Also, I'm pretty large for
Windsprint and if I use a gaffsail with the elevated boom like the
one on the weekender it looks like there'd be more room. Perhaps I
should have started out by asking for opinions of people with
experience sailing both. I've only sailed sloop and lateen rigs so
far.
Thanks,
Tom Pannell
The lug rig looked a little forbidding to me, like it might be
somewhat unwieldy, and I've never sailed one. The gaff rig looks as
if it would be easier to handle. Also, I'm pretty large for
Windsprint and if I use a gaffsail with the elevated boom like the
one on the weekender it looks like there'd be more room. Perhaps I
should have started out by asking for opinions of people with
experience sailing both. I've only sailed sloop and lateen rigs so
far.
Thanks,
Tom Pannell
--- In bolger@y..., "John Bell" <jmbell@m...> wrote:
> As you may be able to tell from the Solent Lug/Birdwatcher threads,
I'm a
> big proponent of the balanced lug.
>
> What misgivings do you have about the lug rig? Switching to a gaff
rig seems
> like it would add unnecessary complexity with no real benefit. Why
is this
> the way you want to go?
>
> JB
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Pannell" <steelcb@y...>
> To: <bolger@y...>
> Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 7:11 AM
> Subject: [bolger] A gaff rig for Windsprint?
>
>
> | I've got most of the materials assembled for a Windsprint, my next
> | boat. I've been looking at the lug rig with some misgivings and
> | would like to know if anyone has built Windsprint with a Bobcat
style
> | gaff rig. It would seem that if I keep the center of effort(?)
> | marked on the sail by Phil Bolger in the same relative position to
> | the daggerboard there should be no problem, but this would require
> | moving the mast and partner forward about 2 ft.
> |
> | Also, has anyone built Windsprint stitch-and-glue without the
> | external chine log vs tack and tape with? I've built different
boats
> | both ways, and like stitch-and-glue very well.
> |
> | Thanks,
> | Tom Pannell
> |
> |
> |
> | Bolger rules!!!
> | - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> | - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> | - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
like
> | - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> | - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> |
> | Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> |
> |
In a message dated 10/28/01 7:24:45 AM Pacific Standard Time,
phillip_lea@...writes:
<< Mike,
Did your Windsprint turtle with the rig set, i.e., drag the yard
and mast underwater? >>
No, I had other problems at the dock which led to the capsize. My main point
was, despite all the flotation, it was amazing to me how the boat filled up
with water and turned over.
MM
phillip_lea@...writes:
<< Mike,
Did your Windsprint turtle with the rig set, i.e., drag the yard
and mast underwater? >>
No, I had other problems at the dock which led to the capsize. My main point
was, despite all the flotation, it was amazing to me how the boat filled up
with water and turned over.
MM
Thanks Mike,
This is the kind of info that will help. I think I'll take it out at
first with a masthead float(ha!). I also have a lateen sail I used
on an earlier boat, and the trimaran idea sounds interesting ...
especially in view of the fact that the hull was designed as half a
catamaran in the first place. Can hardly wait to start putting
pencil to plywood.
Tom Pannell
This is the kind of info that will help. I think I'll take it out at
first with a masthead float(ha!). I also have a lateen sail I used
on an earlier boat, and the trimaran idea sounds interesting ...
especially in view of the fact that the hull was designed as half a
catamaran in the first place. Can hardly wait to start putting
pencil to plywood.
Tom Pannell
--- In bolger@y..., teakdeck@a... wrote:
> Great questions.
>
> I built a Windsprint a few years back. Still have her and still
sail her. I
> live in the Northwest and sail on the Puget Sound. Very cold water.
>
> I have experimented with the lug sail and with a Sunfish type
lateen sail. My
> reason for doing it was to reduce sail and give me a little more
piece of
> mind regarding the chances of dumping the boat.
>
> The lateen sail worked perfectly and being only 75 square feet of
sail as
> opposed to 120, I was less likely to turn the boat over in a gust.
>
> I also packed alot of flotation in either end of the boat to make
it easier
> to right her and bail out if I did go over. Well, one day I did
knock the
> boat over, at the dock. Long story but if happened. To my the
dismay the boat
> just filled with water like a horse trough. Next thing I know it
actually
> turned turtle! I got her turned back upright and bailed out the
water, but
> from a position of leaning down from the dock. I don't know if I
could have
> done it unassisted in the water.
>
> So, I am in the process of turning my Windsprint into a trimaran. I
am going
> to use big lug sail and will likely experiment with other kinds of
sail
> plans. I expect the boat to be fast and stable and I'll be able to
do my
> favorite kind of sailing which is on thin water. As I go along I've
been
> writing up my building and sailing experiences which I will
eventually share
> with the group when the tri version is done and has been tested.
>
> If I were you, I would build the mast partners so you could move
them around
> on the boat and try different rigs.
>
> Windsprint is a fun boat.
>
> Mike Masten
>
> In a message dated 10/27/01 4:11:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> steelcb@y... writes:
>
> << I've got most of the materials assembled for a Windsprint, my
next
> boat. I've been looking at the lug rig with some misgivings and
> would like to know if anyone has built Windsprint with a Bobcat
style
> gaff rig. It would seem that if I keep the center of effort(?)
> marked on the sail by Phil Bolger in the same relative position to
> the daggerboard there should be no problem, but this would require
> moving the mast and partner forward about 2 ft.
>
> Also, has anyone built Windsprint stitch-and-glue without the
> external chine log vs tack and tape with? I've built different
boats
> both ways, and like stitch-and-glue very well.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom Pannell >>
Tom,
A gaff rig would be pretty, justifying some complexity to some.
IMHO keep the CE as low as, and area no larger than the original.
Many have stated the 113 sq.ft. is almost too much.
Mike,
Did your Windsprint turtle with the rig set, i.e., drag the yard
and mast underwater?
Phil Lea
Russellville, Arkansas
A gaff rig would be pretty, justifying some complexity to some.
IMHO keep the CE as low as, and area no larger than the original.
Many have stated the 113 sq.ft. is almost too much.
Mike,
Did your Windsprint turtle with the rig set, i.e., drag the yard
and mast underwater?
Phil Lea
Russellville, Arkansas
--- In bolger@y..., teakdeck@a... wrote:
> Great questions.
>
> I built a Windsprint a few years back. Still have her and still
sail her. I
> live in the Northwest and sail on the Puget Sound. Very cold water.
>
> I have experimented with the lug sail and with a Sunfish type
lateen sail. My
> reason for doing it was to reduce sail and give me a little more
piece of
> mind regarding the chances of dumping the boat.
>
> The lateen sail worked perfectly and being only 75 square feet of
sail as
> opposed to 120, I was less likely to turn the boat over in a gust.
>
> I also packed alot of flotation in either end of the boat to make
it easier
> to right her and bail out if I did go over. Well, one day I did
knock the
> boat over, at the dock. Long story but if happened. To my the
dismay the boat
> just filled with water like a horse trough. Next thing I know it
actually
> turned turtle! I got her turned back upright and bailed out the
water, but
> from a position of leaning down from the dock. I don't know if I
could have
> done it unassisted in the water.
>
> So, I am in the process of turning my Windsprint into a trimaran. I
am going
> to use big lug sail and will likely experiment with other kinds of
sail
> plans. I expect the boat to be fast and stable and I'll be able to
do my
> favorite kind of sailing which is on thin water. As I go along I've
been
> writing up my building and sailing experiences which I will
eventually share
> with the group when the tri version is done and has been tested.
>
> If I were you, I would build the mast partners so you could move
them around
> on the boat and try different rigs.
>
> Windsprint is a fun boat.
>
> Mike Masten
>
> In a message dated 10/27/01 4:11:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> steelcb@y... writes:
>
> << I've got most of the materials assembled for a Windsprint, my
next
> boat. I've been looking at the lug rig with some misgivings and
> would like to know if anyone has built Windsprint with a Bobcat
style
> gaff rig. It would seem that if I keep the center of effort(?)
> marked on the sail by Phil Bolger in the same relative position to
> the daggerboard there should be no problem, but this would require
> moving the mast and partner forward about 2 ft.
>
> Also, has anyone built Windsprint stitch-and-glue without the
> external chine log vs tack and tape with? I've built different
boats
> both ways, and like stitch-and-glue very well.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom Pannell >>
As you may be able to tell from the Solent Lug/Birdwatcher threads, I'm a
big proponent of the balanced lug.
What misgivings do you have about the lug rig? Switching to a gaff rig seems
like it would add unnecessary complexity with no real benefit. Why is this
the way you want to go?
JB
big proponent of the balanced lug.
What misgivings do you have about the lug rig? Switching to a gaff rig seems
like it would add unnecessary complexity with no real benefit. Why is this
the way you want to go?
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Pannell" <steelcb@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 7:11 AM
Subject: [bolger] A gaff rig for Windsprint?
| I've got most of the materials assembled for a Windsprint, my next
| boat. I've been looking at the lug rig with some misgivings and
| would like to know if anyone has built Windsprint with a Bobcat style
| gaff rig. It would seem that if I keep the center of effort(?)
| marked on the sail by Phil Bolger in the same relative position to
| the daggerboard there should be no problem, but this would require
| moving the mast and partner forward about 2 ft.
|
| Also, has anyone built Windsprint stitch-and-glue without the
| external chine log vs tack and tape with? I've built different boats
| both ways, and like stitch-and-glue very well.
|
| Thanks,
| Tom Pannell
|
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
| - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
| - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
| - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
Great questions.
I built a Windsprint a few years back. Still have her and still sail her. I
live in the Northwest and sail on the Puget Sound. Very cold water.
I have experimented with the lug sail and with a Sunfish type lateen sail. My
reason for doing it was to reduce sail and give me a little more piece of
mind regarding the chances of dumping the boat.
The lateen sail worked perfectly and being only 75 square feet of sail as
opposed to 120, I was less likely to turn the boat over in a gust.
I also packed alot of flotation in either end of the boat to make it easier
to right her and bail out if I did go over. Well, one day I did knock the
boat over, at the dock. Long story but if happened. To my the dismay the boat
just filled with water like a horse trough. Next thing I know it actually
turned turtle! I got her turned back upright and bailed out the water, but
from a position of leaning down from the dock. I don't know if I could have
done it unassisted in the water.
So, I am in the process of turning my Windsprint into a trimaran. I am going
to use big lug sail and will likely experiment with other kinds of sail
plans. I expect the boat to be fast and stable and I'll be able to do my
favorite kind of sailing which is on thin water. As I go along I've been
writing up my building and sailing experiences which I will eventually share
with the group when the tri version is done and has been tested.
If I were you, I would build the mast partners so you could move them around
on the boat and try different rigs.
Windsprint is a fun boat.
Mike Masten
In a message dated 10/27/01 4:11:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
steelcb@...writes:
<< I've got most of the materials assembled for a Windsprint, my next
boat. I've been looking at the lug rig with some misgivings and
would like to know if anyone has built Windsprint with a Bobcat style
gaff rig. It would seem that if I keep the center of effort(?)
marked on the sail by Phil Bolger in the same relative position to
the daggerboard there should be no problem, but this would require
moving the mast and partner forward about 2 ft.
Also, has anyone built Windsprint stitch-and-glue without the
external chine log vs tack and tape with? I've built different boats
both ways, and like stitch-and-glue very well.
Thanks,
Tom Pannell >>
I built a Windsprint a few years back. Still have her and still sail her. I
live in the Northwest and sail on the Puget Sound. Very cold water.
I have experimented with the lug sail and with a Sunfish type lateen sail. My
reason for doing it was to reduce sail and give me a little more piece of
mind regarding the chances of dumping the boat.
The lateen sail worked perfectly and being only 75 square feet of sail as
opposed to 120, I was less likely to turn the boat over in a gust.
I also packed alot of flotation in either end of the boat to make it easier
to right her and bail out if I did go over. Well, one day I did knock the
boat over, at the dock. Long story but if happened. To my the dismay the boat
just filled with water like a horse trough. Next thing I know it actually
turned turtle! I got her turned back upright and bailed out the water, but
from a position of leaning down from the dock. I don't know if I could have
done it unassisted in the water.
So, I am in the process of turning my Windsprint into a trimaran. I am going
to use big lug sail and will likely experiment with other kinds of sail
plans. I expect the boat to be fast and stable and I'll be able to do my
favorite kind of sailing which is on thin water. As I go along I've been
writing up my building and sailing experiences which I will eventually share
with the group when the tri version is done and has been tested.
If I were you, I would build the mast partners so you could move them around
on the boat and try different rigs.
Windsprint is a fun boat.
Mike Masten
In a message dated 10/27/01 4:11:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
steelcb@...writes:
<< I've got most of the materials assembled for a Windsprint, my next
boat. I've been looking at the lug rig with some misgivings and
would like to know if anyone has built Windsprint with a Bobcat style
gaff rig. It would seem that if I keep the center of effort(?)
marked on the sail by Phil Bolger in the same relative position to
the daggerboard there should be no problem, but this would require
moving the mast and partner forward about 2 ft.
Also, has anyone built Windsprint stitch-and-glue without the
external chine log vs tack and tape with? I've built different boats
both ways, and like stitch-and-glue very well.
Thanks,
Tom Pannell >>
I've got most of the materials assembled for a Windsprint, my next
boat. I've been looking at the lug rig with some misgivings and
would like to know if anyone has built Windsprint with a Bobcat style
gaff rig. It would seem that if I keep the center of effort(?)
marked on the sail by Phil Bolger in the same relative position to
the daggerboard there should be no problem, but this would require
moving the mast and partner forward about 2 ft.
Also, has anyone built Windsprint stitch-and-glue without the
external chine log vs tack and tape with? I've built different boats
both ways, and like stitch-and-glue very well.
Thanks,
Tom Pannell
boat. I've been looking at the lug rig with some misgivings and
would like to know if anyone has built Windsprint with a Bobcat style
gaff rig. It would seem that if I keep the center of effort(?)
marked on the sail by Phil Bolger in the same relative position to
the daggerboard there should be no problem, but this would require
moving the mast and partner forward about 2 ft.
Also, has anyone built Windsprint stitch-and-glue without the
external chine log vs tack and tape with? I've built different boats
both ways, and like stitch-and-glue very well.
Thanks,
Tom Pannell