Re: [bolger] Re: Block Parts?

Thanks Luke, now I think I may attempt to build some blocks instead of
hibernating. Blocks, hibernation?
If I speak to you again before the spring I will be making blocks,
otherwise.................................

Charlessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

If you keep heading south you will eventually reach civilisation

----- Original Message -----
From: <lukecurran@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 2:05 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Block Parts?

> Sorry, I hope I get it right this time!
>
>
>http://catalog.com/bobpone/plywoodblocks.htm
>
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "Charles Wilson" <wilson.c@b...> wrote:
> > Luke,
> >
> > I would love to see that but the link does not work for me.
> >
> > Charles
> >
> >
> > If you keep heading south you will eventually reach civilisation
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <lukecurran@h...>
> > To: <bolger@y...>
> > Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 9:19 AM
> > Subject: [bolger] Re: Block Parts?
> >
> >
> > > If this link has been posted I've missed it;
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >http://catalogue.com/bobpone/plywoodblocks.htm
> > >
> > >
> > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
> like
> > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA,
> > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Great site, it was exactly what I was looking for. Home made blocks, by a guy who thinks production
and good quality, lets get it built and get on the water. I am interested in building blocks rather
than buying because of the incredible expense of $$Marine$$ hardware. I didn't want to handcraft each
one though. Thanks to this guys site and Richard's, recommendation of mcmaster site I have enough to
come up with something on my own for mass production.

HJ

lukecurran@...wrote:

> If this link has been posted I've missed it;
>
>http://catalogue.com/bobpone/plywoodblocks.htm
>

Luke,

Thanks a lot the link now works and I kinda like the idea.

Will also look at the rest as you suggest.

Charles

If you keep heading south you will eventually reach civilisation

----- Original Message -----
From: <lukecurran@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 2:42 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Block Parts?

> Charles
>
> You might be interested in the (non-bolger) page on tradional boats I
> found the link - lots of tips.
>
>
>http://catalog.com/bobpone/shopbuilding.htm
>
>
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "Charles Wilson" <wilson.c@b...> wrote:
> > Luke,
> >
> > I would love to see that but the link does not work for me.
> >
> > Charles
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Charles

You might be interested in the (non-bolger) page on tradional boats I
found the link - lots of tips.

http://catalog.com/bobpone/shopbuilding.htm

--- In bolger@y..., "Charles Wilson" <wilson.c@b...> wrote:
> Luke,
>
> I would love to see that but the link does not work for me.
>
> Charles
>
>

Sorry, I hope I get it right this time!

http://catalog.com/bobpone/plywoodblocks.htm

--- In bolger@y..., "Charles Wilson" <wilson.c@b...> wrote:
> Luke,
>
> I would love to see that but the link does not work for me.
>
> Charles
>
>
> If you keep heading south you will eventually reach civilisation
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <lukecurran@h...>
> To: <bolger@y...>
> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 9:19 AM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Block Parts?
>
>
> > If this link has been posted I've missed it;
> >
> >
> >
> >http://catalogue.com/bobpone/plywoodblocks.htm
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
like
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >

Luke,

I would love to see that but the link does not work for me.

Charles

If you keep heading south you will eventually reach civilisation

----- Original Message -----
From: <lukecurran@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 9:19 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Block Parts?

> If this link has been posted I've missed it;
>
>
>
>http://catalogue.com/bobpone/plywoodblocks.htm
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Speaking of WWII, think about all the wood that must
have ended up in europe in the form of crating. Every
heavy object, gun, bomb, etc... would have been crated
up and sent over there.

Even today heavier pallets can have the runners made
of Oak. A friend of mine scored tons of this stuff
from an neighbouring industrial site early in his
cabinet carreer, that was '85. In the forties I bet
they cut that stuff down at the drop of a hat.

After all, they pulp first growth trees to publish
books. For that mater I was going through upper NY
state last summer, and got into a discusion of local
lumbering practices. Seems they cut the local maple
forests on private land for income. Best Use: pulp,
and fuel for electricity generation. This really
slayed me, because the cost of maple lumber localy has
soared higher than cherry and oak.

"Old growth Doug fir is a wondeful wood. It's really
tragic how it's been
squandered over the years. I've heard tell about prime
fir being used for
pallets in WW II. The story may be apocryphal, but it
sounds likely given
the way war can warp a country's mentality-- seems
some procurement agent
wanted to do his part for the war effort by providing
the _very best_
pallets he could, so he specified the highest grade of
lumber for them,
made him feel more patriotic no doubt... The there
were all those wooden
steamships and schooners built for WW I, and never
used for the war effort
or much of anything else. Most were abandoned or
burned within a few years
of the war's end."

_______________________________________________________
Build your own website for free and in minutes athttp://ca.geocities.com

_Somebody_ sure pulled your string Pat! <g>

A lot of the replanted fir trees never even make it to 50-60 years, if they
can get a couple of 2x4s out of them they cut 'em. :o( What do they call
that when a corner of a board is rounded off because it's the outside of a
tree? wain? Anyway, try finding a 2x4 in the #2 or better pile at the
lumberyard without it. 100% of the "utility" 2x4s have that as one of the
defects, usually two corners when they're in that pile.

Some knowledgable folk think that some of the rain forests of the northwest
are remnants of the last ice age that managed to survive only because they
created their own cool, moist climate. Cut them down wholesale and they'll
never be able to rejuvenate.

Although there has been some enlightenment in recent years, for generations
the only trees replanted were Douglas firs. Aside from the ill effects of
monoculture plantations on the soil and habitat, it's also meant that
useful woods like cedars are getting to be in short supply.

Spruce? It was WW I when the army came in and mined all the good Sitka
spruce in Oregon. Any reforestation was with Doug fir.

Old growth Doug fir is a wondeful wood. It's really tragic how it's been
squandered over the years. I've heard tell about prime fir being used for
pallets in WW II. The story may be apocryphal, but it sounds likely given
the way war can warp a country's mentality-- seems some procurement agent
wanted to do his part for the war effort by providing the _very best_
pallets he could, so he specified the highest grade of lumber for them,
made him feel more patriotic no doubt... The there were all those wooden
steamships and schooners built for WW I, and never used for the war effort
or much of anything else. Most were abandoned or burned within a few years
of the war's end.

On Fri, 02 Nov 2001 22:43:58 -0000, Pat Pateson ranted:

> ...
> Unfortunately, Vertical Grain Old Growth Doug Fir,
> is More Expensive today than Red or White Oak.
>
> The Reason for that is simple.
> ...
> Some of the timber companies have "Replanted" the
> areas, but those trees have proved to be not nearly
> the quality of the originals.
> They were developed to be fast growing, but many are disease
> prone, and Must be cut after as little as 50-60 years.
> The "Quality" of the lumber from a "Tree Farm" does not
> even come close to the 400 year old trees.
> Douglas fir "Marine Grade Plywood" has gone from "Very Good"
> to "Crap".
> ...
> Sitka Spruce.
> Even worse. They Are Gone.
> Mostly during WW II. Many for Airplane Parts.
> ...
> (Oh Boy! Did I miss anything, John?)

--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
One must have a heart of stone to read the death of Little Nell by
Dickens without laughing. <Oscar Wilde>

White Oak has a closed cell structure.
No tiny bubbles, boo, but no water in the wood either.
That is one of the Major differences between the two.

You could "Coat" Red Oak with Epoxy, but would you
have a "Wooden Block" or a "Red Oak Cored Epoxy Block"?

The white oak is inherently water resistant, so if
you were to get a Chip in the Epoxy, it would not
absorb water the way Red Oak would.

Doug Fir Is Great for boat building.
Light, relatively water resistant, but not nearly
as strong as White oak.
Unfortunately, Vertical Grain Old Growth Doug Fir,
is More Expensive today than Red or White Oak.

The Reason for that is simple.
Not to get too Political, but, part of the "Spotted Owl vs.
Hard Working Loggers", argument, that gets left out,
is that there just Aren't many 400 year old Douglas Fir Trees Left.
Estimates are 2-10% of what once was.
And fewer today than yesterday. Going, going, ..
Weyerhouser, "Georgia" Pacific, "Louisiana" Pacific,
Crown Z, and the Power Pole company that moved our
family to Oregon when I was 3 in 1952, did not send
all their People out to Oregon because it is a nice
place to raise a family. It is, but they All came
here because there were "Endless Forests" of 400+
year old Douglas Fir Trees.
Most of those companies came from where they had
already cut most of the "Endless Forest" somewhere else.
They came, they cut, they left, to find other "Endless Forests".
They actually Moved entire Saw Mills, part by part,
from Oregon, to South America and Siberia.
The Pole Plant My Dad ran Closed in 1975.
Way before the "Spotted Owl" thing, because Most
of the 150 foot old growth poles were gone, even then,
or, too expensive to exploit.
Many of the Timber companies try to blame the
"Spotted Owl" and "Environmentalist Tree huggers", for the
demise of the "Timber Industry" in Oregon, and the loss of
thousands of jobs.
Sometimes, they call those who try to protect the few remaining
Habitats, "Eco-terrorists". (That should "Sell" even better now.)
There still are to be a few, mostly young, longhaired types,
(like I was, when I had hair), that put their lives on
the line to try to "Save" the few habitats left. They have
been pretty much "Marginalized", and the cutting continues to
this day, as the Corporations continue to cut the last of the last.
It is their last ditch effort to cut the
Few remaining Old Growth Douglas Fir trees.
The Federal Government has, and continues to, lose millions of
dollars every year in it's "Timber Sales" of the "last of the last"
on "Federal Lands".
"Federal" does Not mean "Protected". In fact it has actually always
been the other way around. The Federal Government has always had,
as it's number one objective, to "Get the Cut Out".
The Fact of the matter is that The Timber Companies did their jobs
very well.
Nearly All the Big Trees are Gone. Many people that come to Oregon
don't even notice. There are still Lots of Big Trees, but if you
have never seen a "True Old Growth Forest", you literally don't know
what is missing.
The prices for the remaining Old Growth have skyrocketed,
and, although not as high as it was a few years ago, still
makes it very profitable for the Big companies to try
to get Every Tree they can. Several Thousand dollars for a Single
Tree, for some of the Really Big ones.
Along with the Old Growth, much of the Habitat has also been
destroyed.
Western Oregon is truly a "Rain Forest", (I have ferns on my place
that are Taller than I am) that once had as much biodiversity as
any "Rainforest" in the World
Most of that too, is gone.
Much of the "Old Growth did not go into "Quality Construction",
"Housing", or "Construction" of any kind.
It was "Chipped" for Paper.
Some of the timber companies have "Replanted" the
areas, but those trees have proved to be not nearly
the quality of the originals.
They were developed to be fast growing, but many are disease
prone, and Must be cut after as little as 50-60 years.
The "Quality" of the lumber from a "Tree Farm" does not
even come close to the 400 year old trees.
Douglas fir "Marine Grade Plywood" has gone from "Very Good"
to "Crap".

It still takes 400 years to grow a 400-year-old Fir Tree.
The genetics of the trees has also changed, and the New ones
will not live that long.
So, the only place there may be "Old Growth Habitat" again is
where the little still remains.

As much as "Big Timber" would have people believe,
"Old Growth Douglas Fir Trees" are Not just "Another
Crop like Corn". (And many of us know what has happened
to even the corn crop).

Sitka Spruce.
Even worse. They Are Gone.
Mostly during WW II. Many for Airplane Parts.

Sorry for the "Rant". I think I pulled my own string.

I am pretty close to it, but I can "See the forests for the trees".

Pat Patteson
Molalla, "Milltown" Oregon

(Oh Boy! Did I miss anything, John?)

On Thu, 1 Nov 2001, thomas dalzell wrote:

> White oak is nice stuff, but won't your straw trick
> yield the same result? It is ring pourous also. I
> haven't used red oak in a boat either, but I suspect
> that if you coat your sample in epoxy, let it harden,
> and repeat your test, you will get a different result
> ;o).
>
> If I lived out your way I would use a lot of that S
> spruce and D fir.
>
>
> ---pateson@...wrote:
>
> <HR>
> <html><body>
> <tt>
> Good information all. 
> 
> General Information. 
> Avoid using "Red" Oak in boats. 
> It's cell structure is porous. 
> It Will absorb water. 
> 
> Try this at home. 
> Take a short piece of Red Oak. 
> Put one End in a bowl of water. 
> Blow on the other end. 
> Tiny bubbles. Pretty cool, but Not what 
> I want on My boat. 
> 
> Wood vs Other. 
> 
> My preference would be wood, probably White Oak. 
> It is relativly cheap, quite strong, and
> available. 
> I think wood just "Goes Better" with wooden
> boats. 
> It can, and has for a long time, been used on
> "Traditional 
> Boats". 
> I can live with the trade of "Bulk for
> Strenght". 
> Wood is also less "Dammaging" to spars,
> topside, and sails, 
> and heads,(mine, not the other kind) when it bangs
> around. 
> Wood must be used "Properly". It takes more
> attention. 
> One must pay attention to "Grain direction".
> Metal's got none. 
> For Me, working with wood is easier that "Casting
> Metal". 
> But, I make My living as a "Woodworker". 
> 
> If Metal is the choice, then why stop with
> aluminum? 
> Wouldn't titanium or some other exotic metal be
> "Stronger"? 
> Turn your new Golf Driver into a
> "Block". 
> 
> "Plastics" 
> I wish I had listen to that guy in "The
> Graduate". 
> Really are wonderful materials, used properly. 
> I use them, and like it. 
> 
> "I also use power tools." (There, I said
> it.) 
> 
> Not an attempt at any "Argument", just a
> preference. 
> 
> It is nice to know the pros and cons, and to be able
> 
> to make informed choices. 
> 
> All you folks really Are a Wealth of experience and
> knowlege. 
> I hope we save each other from making regretable
> mistakes. 
> 
> Not many "Wooden Blocks" on America's Cup
> Boats. 
> Come to think of it, not much "Wood".
> They're nice. 
> 
> We all do, and use, what we want in the end,
> anyway. 
> 
> Boy, I wish I hadn't built that first boat with
> the 
> "Free" Alder I found at that cabinet shop.
> 
> Don't do That too. Bad Idea! 
> (It Was such a "Nice" boat too.) 
> 
> Pat Patteson 
> Still learning. 
> Molalla, Oregon 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In bolger@y..., richard@s... wrote: 
> > How thick are your hardwood shells? 
> > 
> > Red Oak: 
> > <a
> href="http://www.matweb.com/SpecificMaterial.asp?">http://www.matweb.com/SpecificMaterial.asp?</a> 
> bassnum=PTSAV&group=General 
> > shows a tensile strength of 798psi 
> > 
> > A common cast aluminum alloy: 
> > <a
> href="http://www.matweb.com/SpecificMaterial.asp?">http://www.matweb.com/SpecificMaterial.asp?</a> 
> > bassnum=MAC320&group=General 
> > tensile strength of 14,069psi 
> > 
> > So, you should be able to make the cheeks quite a
> bit thinner if 
> made 
> > of al. Say, for a breaking strength of 2000 lb,
> with a 4x safety 
> > margin, you would only need about 1/2" cross
> sectional area on your 
> > aluminum cheaks, but would need a cross sectional
> area of 10 sq 
> > inches out of red oak... 
> > 
> > My math probably screwed up, but good enough for
> comparisons. 
> > 
> > --- In bolger@y..., jhkohnen@b... wrote: 
> > > Richard- 
> > > 
> > > Why aluminum bodies? I've got some strapless
> wooden blocks on 
> > Pickle, and 
> > > while they're far from perfect in other
> respects the hardwood 
> > shells handle 
> > > the strains of a small boat just fine with
> no metal straps or 
> rope 
> > strops, 
> > > and it's much nicer to have chunks of wood
> rattling around than 
> > lumps of 
> > > metal. Here's a crude sketch of what my
> blocks look like, pretty 
> > simple 
> > > except for the mortising for the nubbins on
> the becket. Frankly, 
> if 
> > I was 
> > > replacing them (and I may one of these days)
> I'd lose the bronze 
> > becket and 
> > > make a solid wood shell and use a rope
> strop. BTW, small scraps 
> of 
> > harwood 
> > > suitable for small boat block shells can
> often be found for 
> peanuts 
> > at 
> > > hardwood dealers or cabinet shops. 
> > > 
> > > <a
> href="http://www.boat-links.com/images/Block.gif">http://www.boat-links.com/images/Block.gif</a> 
> > > 
> > > On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:35:52 -0000, Richard
> Spelling wrote: 
> > > > I'm making my own, just got in the
> delrin for the sheaves from 
> > > > McMaster-Carr. Will cast the bodies out
> of aluminum, with 
> > stainless 
> > > > pins, and maybe attachemnt points.
> Corrosion may eventual seize 
> > the 
> > > > stainless to the aluminum, but I don't
> plan to ever take them 
> > appart, 
> > > > and the only moving part will be the
> delrin sheave, which will 
> > turn 
> > > > on stainless pins. 
> > > > 
> > > > I plan on casting the bodies with sand
> cores, so they are one 
> > solid 
> > > > piece, should be an interesting winter
> project. 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> >
> >
> John <jkohnen@b...> 
> >
> >
> <a
> href="http://www.boat-links.com/">http://www.boat-links.com/</a> 
> > > I care not for a man's religion
> whose dog or cat are not the 
> > better for it. 
> >
> >
> <Abraham Lincoln> 
> 
> </tt>
>
> 
>
> 
>
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> <tt>
> Bolger rules!!! 
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
> dead horses 
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
> topic, and punctuate 
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
> snip all you like 
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349 
> - Unsubscribe:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
> 
>
> 
> <tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
> href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms
> of Service</a>.</tt>
> 
>
> </body></html>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________
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>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Chris Crandallcrandall@...(785) 864-4131
Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.

Wood will work. Stainless straps with wood will work even better.

I'm making all the block for the Chebacco light cruiser. Compounds on
gaff, two blocks on mast, turning blocks for halyards and reefing
lines, etc. Plan to lead all the lines to the cockpit so I can hoist
and reef from the dodger.

--- In bolger@y..., jhkohnen@b... wrote:
> Richard-
>
> The shells are only about 3/8" thick mahogany. I can't argue with
your
> math, but do you really need that much strength for your
application? If I
> had 500 lbs working on my sheet blocks it'd yank my arm off! <g>
And even
> the turning blocks for my snotter and tack downhaul shouldn't see
anywhere
> near that much load. Of course Pickle's a small boat. If you do
need the
> strength, you could make bronze or stainless strapped, wood shell
blocks.
> The metal would take all the load, the wood would just contain the
rope and
> make a nicer surface to have rattling around. Also you'd get to do
some
> pleasant woodworking and a little metal drilling and filing instead
of hot,
> dirty foundry work. Or go ahead and get hot and dirty, I'm not
trying to
> dissuade you, we all have diferent ideas of fun. <g> I was just
curious
> about your choice of materials.
>
> BTW, what are you going to use the blocks for?
>
> On Thu, 01 Nov 2001 19:28:05 -0000, Richard Spelling wrote:
> > How thick are your hardwood shells?
> >
> > Red Oak:
> >http://www.matweb.com/SpecificMaterial.asp?
bassnum=PTSAV&group=General
> > shows a tensile strength of 798psi
> >
> > A common cast aluminum alloy:
> >http://www.matweb.com/SpecificMaterial.asp?
> > bassnum=MAC320&group=General
> > tensile strength of 14,069psi
> >
> > So, you should be able to make the cheeks quite a bit thinner if
made
> > of al. Say, for a breaking strength of 2000 lb, with a 4x safety
> > margin, you would only need about 1/2" cross sectional area on
your
> > aluminum cheaks, but would need a cross sectional area of 10 sq
> > inches out of red oak...
>
> --
> John <jkohnen@b...>
>http://www.boat-links.com/
> The problem with people who have no vices is that generally you
can be
> pretty sure they're going to have some pretty annoying
virtues.
> <Elizabeth Taylor>

Common Sense Boats sells RaceLite nylon sheaves for a dollar or two.
Pretty decent price, if you can get him to answer his email and if
the website happens to be working...

Paided $26 for four feet of black delrin rod from McMaster, enough to
make 45 or so sheaves. I figure the delrin will turn on a SS pin with
no problems and no bearings, and I'll make the body out of aluminum.

No reason you couldn't make the body out of wood, with maybe some
strategic placement of glass and epoxy. It would certainly be
prettier, but I have the capability to do it out of aluminum, and
want the excuse to do some more core work, so I'm going to do it that
way.

--- In bolger@y..., jhkohnen@b... wrote:
> I don't know about "replacement" sheaves from a block manufacturer,
but
> sheaves can be bought alone from some places for less than the cost
of a
> block, or made. If you make your blocks out of aluminum you've got
to find
> sheaves too. <g> I don't know what my strategy will be when I
replace
> Pickle's blocks, I could use my existing sheaves, though they're
just a
> tad small for the mainsheets, and bore them out for delrin sleeves
or some
> other better bearing, right now their bronze or brass on bronze or
brass
> pins.
>
> On Thu, 01 Nov 2001 13:46:57 -0000, Peter wrote:
> > I have never looked into this. Would you save a lot if you made
your
> > own hardwood shells and bought "replacement" sheaves?
> >
> > Peter
>
> --
> John <jkohnen@b...>
>http://www.boat-links.com/
> Nobody ought to wear a Greek fisherman's hat unless they meet two
conditions:
> 1. He is a Greek
> 2. He is a Fisherman <Roy Blount Jr.>

Richard-

The shells are only about 3/8" thick mahogany. I can't argue with your
math, but do you really need that much strength for your application? If I
had 500 lbs working on my sheet blocks it'd yank my arm off! <g> And even
the turning blocks for my snotter and tack downhaul shouldn't see anywhere
near that much load. Of course Pickle's a small boat. If you do need the
strength, you could make bronze or stainless strapped, wood shell blocks.
The metal would take all the load, the wood would just contain the rope and
make a nicer surface to have rattling around. Also you'd get to do some
pleasant woodworking and a little metal drilling and filing instead of hot,
dirty foundry work. Or go ahead and get hot and dirty, I'm not trying to
dissuade you, we all have diferent ideas of fun. <g> I was just curious
about your choice of materials.

BTW, what are you going to use the blocks for?

On Thu, 01 Nov 2001 19:28:05 -0000, Richard Spelling wrote:
> How thick are your hardwood shells?
>
> Red Oak:
>http://www.matweb.com/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=PTSAV&group=General
> shows a tensile strength of 798psi
>
> A common cast aluminum alloy:
>http://www.matweb.com/SpecificMaterial.asp?
> bassnum=MAC320&group=General
> tensile strength of 14,069psi
>
> So, you should be able to make the cheeks quite a bit thinner if made
> of al. Say, for a breaking strength of 2000 lb, with a 4x safety
> margin, you would only need about 1/2" cross sectional area on your
> aluminum cheaks, but would need a cross sectional area of 10 sq
> inches out of red oak...

--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
The problem with people who have no vices is that generally you can be
pretty sure they're going to have some pretty annoying virtues.
<Elizabeth Taylor>

I don't know about "replacement" sheaves from a block manufacturer, but
sheaves can be bought alone from some places for less than the cost of a
block, or made. If you make your blocks out of aluminum you've got to find
sheaves too. <g> I don't know what my strategy will be when I replace
Pickle's blocks, I could use my existing sheaves, though they're just a
tad small for the mainsheets, and bore them out for delrin sleeves or some
other better bearing, right now their bronze or brass on bronze or brass
pins.

On Thu, 01 Nov 2001 13:46:57 -0000, Peter wrote:
> I have never looked into this. Would you save a lot if you made your
> own hardwood shells and bought "replacement" sheaves?
>
> Peter

--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
Nobody ought to wear a Greek fisherman's hat unless they meet two conditions:
1. He is a Greek
2. He is a Fisherman <Roy Blount Jr.>

White oak is nice stuff, but won't your straw trick
yield the same result? It is ring pourous also. I
haven't used red oak in a boat either, but I suspect
that if you coat your sample in epoxy, let it harden,
and repeat your test, you will get a different result
;o).

If I lived out your way I would use a lot of that S
spruce and D fir.

---pateson@...wrote:

<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
Good information all. 
 
General Information. 
Avoid using "Red" Oak in boats. 
It's cell structure is porous. 
It Will absorb water. 
 
Try this at home. 
Take a short piece of Red Oak. 
Put one End in a bowl of water. 
Blow on the other end. 
Tiny bubbles. Pretty cool, but Not what 
I want on My boat. 
 
Wood vs Other. 
 
My preference would be wood, probably White Oak. 
It is relativly cheap, quite strong, and
available. 
I think wood just "Goes Better" with wooden
boats. 
It can, and has for a long time, been used on
"Traditional 
Boats". 
I can live with the trade of "Bulk for
Strenght". 
Wood is also less "Dammaging" to spars,
topside, and sails, 
and heads,(mine, not the other kind) when it bangs
around. 
Wood must be used "Properly". It takes more
attention. 
One must pay attention to "Grain direction".
Metal's got none. 
For Me, working with wood is easier that "Casting
Metal". 
But, I make My living as a "Woodworker". 
 
If Metal is the choice, then why stop with
aluminum? 
Wouldn't titanium or some other exotic metal be
"Stronger"? 
Turn your new Golf Driver into a
"Block". 
 
"Plastics" 
I wish I had listen to that guy in "The
Graduate". 
Really are wonderful materials, used properly. 
I use them, and like it. 
 
"I also use power tools." (There, I said
it.) 
 
Not an attempt at any "Argument", just a
preference. 
 
It is nice to know the pros and cons, and to be able
 
to make informed choices. 
 
All you folks really Are a Wealth of experience and
knowlege. 
I hope we save each other from making regretable
mistakes. 
 
Not many "Wooden Blocks" on America's Cup
Boats. 
Come to think of it, not much "Wood".
They're nice. 
 
We all do, and use, what we want in the end,
anyway. 
 
Boy, I wish I hadn't built that first boat with
the 
"Free" Alder I found at that cabinet shop.
 
Don't do That too. Bad Idea! 
(It Was such a "Nice" boat too.) 
 
Pat Patteson 
Still learning. 
Molalla, Oregon 
 
 
 
 
 
 
--- In bolger@y..., richard@s... wrote:

> How thick are your hardwood shells? 
> 
> Red Oak: 
> <a

href="http://www.matweb.com/SpecificMaterial.asp?">http://www.matweb.com/SpecificMaterial.asp?</a> 
bassnum=PTSAV&group=General

> shows a tensile strength of 798psi 
> 
> A common cast aluminum alloy: 
> <a

href="http://www.matweb.com/SpecificMaterial.asp?">http://www.matweb.com/SpecificMaterial.asp?</a>

> bassnum=MAC320&group=General 
> tensile strength of 14,069psi 
> 
> So, you should be able to make the cheeks quite a

bit thinner if 
made

> of al. Say, for a breaking strength of 2000 lb,

with a 4x safety

> margin, you would only need about 1/2" cross

sectional area on your

> aluminum cheaks, but would need a cross sectional

area of 10 sq

> inches out of red oak... 
> 
> My math probably screwed up, but good enough for

comparisons.

> 
> --- In bolger@y..., jhkohnen@b... wrote: 
> > Richard- 
> > 
> > Why aluminum bodies? I've got some strapless

wooden blocks on

> Pickle, and 
> > while they're far from perfect in other

respects the hardwood

> shells handle 
> > the strains of a small boat just fine with

no metal straps or 
rope

> strops, 
> > and it's much nicer to have chunks of wood

rattling around than

> lumps of 
> > metal. Here's a crude sketch of what my

blocks look like, pretty

> simple 
> > except for the mortising for the nubbins on

the becket. Frankly, 
if

> I was 
> > replacing them (and I may one of these days)

I'd lose the bronze

> becket and 
> > make a solid wood shell and use a rope

strop. BTW, small scraps 
of

> harwood 
> > suitable for small boat block shells can

often be found for 
peanuts

> at 
> > hardwood dealers or cabinet shops. 
> > 
> > <a

href="http://www.boat-links.com/images/Block.gif">http://www.boat-links.com/images/Block.gif</a>

> > 
> > On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:35:52 -0000, Richard

Spelling wrote:

> > > I'm making my own, just got in the

delrin for the sheaves from

> > > McMaster-Carr. Will cast the bodies out

of aluminum, with

> stainless 
> > > pins, and maybe attachemnt points.

Corrosion may eventual seize

> the 
> > > stainless to the aluminum, but I don't

plan to ever take them

> appart, 
> > > and the only moving part will be the

delrin sheave, which will

> turn 
> > > on stainless pins. 
> > > 
> > > I plan on casting the bodies with sand

cores, so they are one

> solid 
> > > piece, should be an interesting winter

project.

> > 
> > -- 
>
>

John <jkohnen@b...>

>
>

<a
href="http://www.boat-links.com/">http://www.boat-links.com/</a>

> > I care not for a man's religion

whose dog or cat are not the

> better for it. 
>
>

<Abraham Lincoln> 
 
</tt>

 



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<tt>
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- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses 
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate 
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like 
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_______________________________________________________
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Good information all.

General Information.
Avoid using "Red" Oak in boats.
It's cell structure is porous.
It Will absorb water.

Try this at home.
Take a short piece of Red Oak.
Put one End in a bowl of water.
Blow on the other end.
Tiny bubbles. Pretty cool, but Not what
I want on My boat.

Wood vs Other.

My preference would be wood, probably White Oak.
It is relativly cheap, quite strong, and available.
I think wood just "Goes Better" with wooden boats.
It can, and has for a long time, been used on "Traditional
Boats".
I can live with the trade of "Bulk for Strenght".
Wood is also less "Dammaging" to spars, topside, and sails,
and heads,(mine, not the other kind) when it bangs around.
Wood must be used "Properly". It takes more attention.
One must pay attention to "Grain direction". Metal's got none.
For Me, working with wood is easier that "Casting Metal".
But, I make My living as a "Woodworker".

If Metal is the choice, then why stop with aluminum?
Wouldn't titanium or some other exotic metal be "Stronger"?
Turn your new Golf Driver into a "Block".

"Plastics"
I wish I had listen to that guy in "The Graduate".
Really are wonderful materials, used properly.
I use them, and like it.

"I also use power tools." (There, I said it.)

Not an attempt at any "Argument", just a preference.

It is nice to know the pros and cons, and to be able
to make informed choices.

All you folks really Are a Wealth of experience and knowlege.
I hope we save each other from making regretable mistakes.

Not many "Wooden Blocks" on America's Cup Boats.
Come to think of it, not much "Wood". They're nice.

We all do, and use, what we want in the end, anyway.

Boy, I wish I hadn't built that first boat with the
"Free" Alder I found at that cabinet shop.
Don't do That too. Bad Idea!
(It Was such a "Nice" boat too.)

Pat Patteson
Still learning.
Molalla, Oregon

--- In bolger@y..., richard@s... wrote:
> How thick are your hardwood shells?
>
> Red Oak:
>http://www.matweb.com/SpecificMaterial.asp?
bassnum=PTSAV&group=General
> shows a tensile strength of 798psi
>
> A common cast aluminum alloy:
>http://www.matweb.com/SpecificMaterial.asp?
> bassnum=MAC320&group=General
> tensile strength of 14,069psi
>
> So, you should be able to make the cheeks quite a bit thinner if
made
> of al. Say, for a breaking strength of 2000 lb, with a 4x safety
> margin, you would only need about 1/2" cross sectional area on your
> aluminum cheaks, but would need a cross sectional area of 10 sq
> inches out of red oak...
>
> My math probably screwed up, but good enough for comparisons.
>
> --- In bolger@y..., jhkohnen@b... wrote:
> > Richard-
> >
> > Why aluminum bodies? I've got some strapless wooden blocks on
> Pickle, and
> > while they're far from perfect in other respects the hardwood
> shells handle
> > the strains of a small boat just fine with no metal straps or
rope
> strops,
> > and it's much nicer to have chunks of wood rattling around than
> lumps of
> > metal. Here's a crude sketch of what my blocks look like, pretty
> simple
> > except for the mortising for the nubbins on the becket. Frankly,
if
> I was
> > replacing them (and I may one of these days) I'd lose the bronze
> becket and
> > make a solid wood shell and use a rope strop. BTW, small scraps
of
> harwood
> > suitable for small boat block shells can often be found for
peanuts
> at
> > hardwood dealers or cabinet shops.
> >
> >http://www.boat-links.com/images/Block.gif
> >
> > On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:35:52 -0000, Richard Spelling wrote:
> > > I'm making my own, just got in the delrin for the sheaves from
> > > McMaster-Carr. Will cast the bodies out of aluminum, with
> stainless
> > > pins, and maybe attachemnt points. Corrosion may eventual seize
> the
> > > stainless to the aluminum, but I don't plan to ever take them
> appart,
> > > and the only moving part will be the delrin sheave, which will
> turn
> > > on stainless pins.
> > >
> > > I plan on casting the bodies with sand cores, so they are one
> solid
> > > piece, should be an interesting winter project.
> >
> > --
> > John <jkohnen@b...>
> >http://www.boat-links.com/
> > I care not for a man's religion whose dog or cat are not the
> better for it.
> > <Abraham Lincoln>

How thick are your hardwood shells?

Red Oak:
http://www.matweb.com/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=PTSAV&group=General
shows a tensile strength of 798psi

A common cast aluminum alloy:
http://www.matweb.com/SpecificMaterial.asp?
bassnum=MAC320&group=General
tensile strength of 14,069psi

So, you should be able to make the cheeks quite a bit thinner if made
of al. Say, for a breaking strength of 2000 lb, with a 4x safety
margin, you would only need about 1/2" cross sectional area on your
aluminum cheaks, but would need a cross sectional area of 10 sq
inches out of red oak...

My math probably screwed up, but good enough for comparisons.

--- In bolger@y..., jhkohnen@b... wrote:
> Richard-
>
> Why aluminum bodies? I've got some strapless wooden blocks on
Pickle, and
> while they're far from perfect in other respects the hardwood
shells handle
> the strains of a small boat just fine with no metal straps or rope
strops,
> and it's much nicer to have chunks of wood rattling around than
lumps of
> metal. Here's a crude sketch of what my blocks look like, pretty
simple
> except for the mortising for the nubbins on the becket. Frankly, if
I was
> replacing them (and I may one of these days) I'd lose the bronze
becket and
> make a solid wood shell and use a rope strop. BTW, small scraps of
harwood
> suitable for small boat block shells can often be found for peanuts
at
> hardwood dealers or cabinet shops.
>
>http://www.boat-links.com/images/Block.gif
>
> On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:35:52 -0000, Richard Spelling wrote:
> > I'm making my own, just got in the delrin for the sheaves from
> > McMaster-Carr. Will cast the bodies out of aluminum, with
stainless
> > pins, and maybe attachemnt points. Corrosion may eventual seize
the
> > stainless to the aluminum, but I don't plan to ever take them
appart,
> > and the only moving part will be the delrin sheave, which will
turn
> > on stainless pins.
> >
> > I plan on casting the bodies with sand cores, so they are one
solid
> > piece, should be an interesting winter project.
>
> --
> John <jkohnen@b...>
>http://www.boat-links.com/
> I care not for a man's religion whose dog or cat are not the
better for it.
> <Abraham Lincoln>

I have never looked into this. Would you save a lot if you made your
own hardwood shells and bought "replacement" sheaves?

Peter

Richard-

Why aluminum bodies? I've got some strapless wooden blocks on Pickle, and
while they're far from perfect in other respects the hardwood shells handle
the strains of a small boat just fine with no metal straps or rope strops,
and it's much nicer to have chunks of wood rattling around than lumps of
metal. Here's a crude sketch of what my blocks look like, pretty simple
except for the mortising for the nubbins on the becket. Frankly, if I was
replacing them (and I may one of these days) I'd lose the bronze becket and
make a solid wood shell and use a rope strop. BTW, small scraps of harwood
suitable for small boat block shells can often be found for peanuts at
hardwood dealers or cabinet shops.

http://www.boat-links.com/images/Block.gif

On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:35:52 -0000, Richard Spelling wrote:
> I'm making my own, just got in the delrin for the sheaves from
> McMaster-Carr. Will cast the bodies out of aluminum, with stainless
> pins, and maybe attachemnt points. Corrosion may eventual seize the
> stainless to the aluminum, but I don't plan to ever take them appart,
> and the only moving part will be the delrin sheave, which will turn
> on stainless pins.
>
> I plan on casting the bodies with sand cores, so they are one solid
> piece, should be an interesting winter project.

--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
I care not for a man's religion whose dog or cat are not the better for it.
<Abraham Lincoln>

I'm making my own, just got in the delrin for the sheaves from
McMaster-Carr. Will cast the bodies out of aluminum, with stainless
pins, and maybe attachemnt points. Corrosion may eventual seize the
stainless to the aluminum, but I don't plan to ever take them appart,
and the only moving part will be the delrin sheave, which will turn
on stainless pins.

I plan on casting the bodies with sand cores, so they are one solid
piece, should be an interesting winter project.

--- In bolger@y..., "Harry W. James" <welshman@p...> wrote:
> Yo bolger dudes and dudettes
>
> Where can you find kits or parts to make blocks. I am interested in
> all sizes from small to large. If you have to rig a gaff rig you can
> spend an incredible amount if you buy off the (West Marine) shelf.
>
> HJ

There a plans with a materials list in "the Sailor's Sketchbook" by Bruce
Bingham. According to the text, the motivation for making his own blocks
was the cost of rigging a gaff schooner. Interesting book in any case - 76
projects mostly for customizing small sailboats.

$13.56 at Amazon - they've posted some sample pages and the Table of
Contents on their web pages. Go tohttp://www.amazon.comand search for
"Sailor's Sketchbook" under books.

Larry Barker
Talent, Oregon

----- Original Message -----
From: "Derek Waters" <dgw@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Block Parts?

> Hi Harry
>
> Why not make them from scratch? I've been having fun making wee rope
> stropped blocks for our (under construction) 'Chinese Gaffer'. Materials
and
> 'parts' are all readily available mail order if not at the local store,
and
> the required skill set isn't huge either. Prior to starting, I looked
around
> without success for published instructions. With a few blocks made, I've
> been kicking around the idea of writing the process up as a web page or
> seeing if Duckworks would be interested in an article.....
>
> Derek

Hi Harry

Why not make them from scratch? I've been having fun making wee rope
stropped blocks for our (under construction) 'Chinese Gaffer'. Materials and
'parts' are all readily available mail order if not at the local store, and
the required skill set isn't huge either. Prior to starting, I looked around
without success for published instructions. With a few blocks made, I've
been kicking around the idea of writing the process up as a web page or
seeing if Duckworks would be interested in an article.....

Derek

Yo bolger dudes and dudettes

Where can you find kits or parts to make blocks. I am interested in
all sizes from small to large. If you have to rig a gaff rig you can
spend an incredible amount if you buy off the (West Marine) shelf.

HJ