Re: [bolger] ZephyrCat?

Building "real" Catamaran but with instant hulls is
worth a thought. I built a 16' that turned out very
simmilar to Bolger's, (which I hadn't seen)except that
mine was a displacement hull. People love the big
sprawling area on a catamaran, and I have often
thought that in the real world we live in - most of us
don't transat, go on that multi-year sailing adventure
etc... - A small charter cat would be the ideal
platform for socializing and children. I would like
to boost my 16 footer to 32, and see where that gets
me.

--- David Ryan <david@...> wrote:

<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
FBBB --- 
 
You may (or may not) recall my question about twin
kayak/catamaran 
designs. I've been pondering the whole notion further
and have begun 
to wonder about a catamaran based on two zephyr
hulls. 
 
It seems that this would make a very nice sail powered
fishing and 
diving platform. The hulls would be quick to build and
would provide 
plenty of seating and/or carrying capacity. I don't
see her flying a 
high-performance rig, but I don't think I could pass
up carrying a 
big spinnaker for downwind work. 
 
I'm not sure of the mast step and partner arrangement,
but there must 
be some existing design I could steal from. 
 
Any thoughts? 
 
YIBB, 
 
David 
 
 
C.E.P. 
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor 
New York, New York 10001 
<a
href="http://www.crumblingempire.com">http://www.crumblingempire.com</a> 
(212) 247-0296 
</tt>

 
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- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
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Or just a square box with a point at one end, a 66%
transom at the other end, and dept (draft) half of
width (WLW). The transom should be free of the water
at the predicted displacement range. Fineness should
be between 10-1 and 20-1. I followed that approach on
my Bass Ackwards design, and it even looked pretty
nice.

---pvanderw@...wrote:

<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>

> I've been pondering the whole notion further and

have begun

> to wonder about a catamaran based on two zephyr

hulls. 
 
PCB designed a catamaran using two hulls in the
Surf/Zephyr family. 
He referred to it later as one of his only designs
that could not be 
made to work at all. A cautionary tale. 
 
Cats have a lot of surface area for their weight and
sail area, so 
the hull forms should be a low area type, unlike a
flat bottom skiff. 
This is one application where you would be better off
with a dory 
hull. 
 
Peter 
 
 
 
 
</tt>

 



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<tt>
Bolger rules!!! 
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
dead horses 
- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on
topic, and punctuate 
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts,
snip all you like 
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349 
- Unsubscribe:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
 

 
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms
of Service</a>.</tt>


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I don't know for sure, but I believe that this is the failed cat. You
can see that the bows are very fine. This drawing is in "Different
Boats" in the article on Query, the bow steerer. The Query hull was
rerigged as Windsprint.

http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/PCBcat.JPG

The comment about a failed design is in the article on the Aukland
Catamaran in BWAOM.

Peter

Not a boat designer, but as I understand it:

When you are pushing a cat, one of the hulls will try to fly, and the
other will get pushed into the water.

When the windward hull is trying to fly, and the leeward one is
trying to sink, the forward component of the sail force will be
pushing the nose down.

Works the same on a monohull, but you can move backwards to sink the
stern, can't always do that on a cat.

In addition, on a monohull, the entire hull will resist the
submarining, but with a cat, only one of the hulls will.

--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> >Note sure the reason for the attemt, but the failure was caused by
> >not enough floation up front. Can you say "submarine"?
> >
> >Look at the ama's on Michalak's Trilars. The were directly borrowed
> >from a trimaran of Bolgers, whos problem was to fat or a main hull.
> >They have way more floatation on the ends than the zephyr hull.
>
> Are you saying there's not enough displacement in the bow of the
> zephyr hull? If so, why does it work as a monohull, but not as a
> catamaran?
>
> My teal and scooner both plane. I'm surprised a ZephyrCat would
> submarine rather than surf.
>
> More info please!
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
>
> C.E.P.
> 134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
> New York, New York 10001
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 247-0296

>Note sure the reason for the attemt, but the failure was caused by
>not enough floation up front. Can you say "submarine"?
>
>Look at the ama's on Michalak's Trilars. The were directly borrowed
>from a trimaran of Bolgers, whos problem was to fat or a main hull.
>They have way more floatation on the ends than the zephyr hull.

Are you saying there's not enough displacement in the bow of the
zephyr hull? If so, why does it work as a monohull, but not as a
catamaran?

My teal and scooner both plane. I'm surprised a ZephyrCat would
submarine rather than surf.

More info please!

YIBB,

David

C.E.P.
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296

Note sure the reason for the attemt, but the failure was caused by
not enough floation up front. Can you say "submarine"?

Look at the ama's on Michalak's Trilars. The were directly borrowed
from a trimaran of Bolgers, whos problem was to fat or a main hull.
They have way more floatation on the ends than the zephyr hull.

http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/2001/0315/index.htm#Trila
rs

--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> >> I've been pondering the whole notion further and have begun
> >> to wonder about a catamaran based on two zephyr hulls.
> >
> >PCB designed a catamaran using two hulls in the Surf/Zephyr family.
> >He referred to it later as one of his only designs that could not
be
> >made to work at all. A cautionary tale.
>
> What were the reasons for the attempt? What were the reasons for
the failure?
>
> -D
>
> C.E.P.
> 134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
> New York, New York 10001
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> (212) 247-0296

>> I've been pondering the whole notion further and have begun
>> to wonder about a catamaran based on two zephyr hulls.
>
>PCB designed a catamaran using two hulls in the Surf/Zephyr family.
>He referred to it later as one of his only designs that could not be
>made to work at all. A cautionary tale.

What were the reasons for the attempt? What were the reasons for the failure?

-D

C.E.P.
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296

> I've been pondering the whole notion further and have begun
> to wonder about a catamaran based on two zephyr hulls.

PCB designed a catamaran using two hulls in the Surf/Zephyr family.
He referred to it later as one of his only designs that could not be
made to work at all. A cautionary tale.

Cats have a lot of surface area for their weight and sail area, so
the hull forms should be a low area type, unlike a flat bottom skiff.
This is one application where you would be better off with a dory
hull.

Peter

FBBB ---

You may (or may not) recall my question about twin kayak/catamaran
designs. I've been pondering the whole notion further and have begun
to wonder about a catamaran based on two zephyr hulls.

It seems that this would make a very nice sail powered fishing and
diving platform. The hulls would be quick to build and would provide
plenty of seating and/or carrying capacity. I don't see her flying a
high-performance rig, but I don't think I could pass up carrying a
big spinnaker for downwind work.

I'm not sure of the mast step and partner arrangement, but there must
be some existing design I could steal from.

Any thoughts?

YIBB,

David

C.E.P.
134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
New York, New York 10001
http://www.crumblingempire.com
(212) 247-0296